Lee and Alex discuss what it's like going to the movie theater as a legally blind patron. What we like, using audio description devices and how it can be improved.
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Lee and Alex discuss what it's like going to the movie theater as a legally blind patron. What we like, using audio description devices and how it can be improved.
Questions? Email us at darkroomfilmcast@gmail.com
Search for Audio Description availability for any title on the American Council for the Blind's Website!
Find transcripts of our episodes on our hosting site, Buzzsprout!
Subscribe to our YouTube Channel!
Support us on Patreon!
Follow us on Instagram!
Find us on Facebook!
Lee Pugsley
happy April, everyone. Welcome back to the dark room where two blind cinephiles illuminate the sighted. I'm Lea Pugsley.
Alex Howard
I'm Alex Howard.
Lee Pugsley
And we are your hosts two legally blind guys who hosts this podcast for film lovers of all abilities. Alex, how's it going today?
Alex Howard
It's gone pretty good. I am excited to talk movies with you, as always.
Lee Pugsley
Yeah. And speaking of talking movies, let's talk about one of the recent movies that both of us saw before we kind of get into, you know, more in depth things. But one of the most recent movies that both of us saw is [Mario theme] the Super Mario Brothers movie. And I had a question about that movie for you. Which is? Is there a difference? When you watch animated movies versus live action movies? Is there one that's easier to see based on? Any number of things, you know, but visually? Is there one that works better for you than the other?
Alex Howard
Oh, I think definitely not animated, is easier to see. I think just like last week, we talked about how not a big fan of the spider verse movie, I think it's mostly because the animation does make it harder to see at times, because with animation, you can do things that are not realistic in our world. And so, you know, there's that limit as to what you can show with real people. So I think when you stretch that into animation, there are times I probably miss things here and there, especially with Mario because it's so crowded. And you know, there's so much nostalgia in it for I mean, I'm not as nostalgic as you are for it. But you know, they're trying to fit in so many characters, there's probably so many Easter eggs that I didn't catch, just because it's so bright in your face. You know,
Lee Pugsley
that makes sense. I mean, it's interesting for me, because oftentimes, animation can be easier for me to see. And maybe it's because there are like more heightened colors. And it depends because there obviously are some movies that are animated that have darker scenes in them. And those actually can be harder to see than like a live action movie scene where it's darker. But oftentimes, when the colors are bright and vibrant, it helps me kind of see the images a little bit more and piece them together.
Alex Howard
I can see that. Yeah, and I think even with the poster for Mario, like, it's overwhelming with all of the it's so busy, that I just I didn't even try I just looked at the title. I was like, I'm running to try and break this down, you know, but I think especially touching on what you said, We're gonna this actually leads into our next topic with the theaters. For me when I went to see Space Jam legacy, which you don't need to see Space Jam legacy
Lee pugsley
you really don't need to see Space Jam Legacy
Alex Howard
If you have a an inkling to see Space Jam legacy. When I went to see the ad was not working. And when the animation part started, when he went into the tunes world, I was like I'm out. Because I I could not tell what was happening anymore. And I knew I was missing things. You know, the Looney Tunes have eyes popping out of their sockets, and they're pulling hammers out of their behind their back whenever there's so many crazy things. I was like, I cannot do this to the audience. So I literally left.
Lee Pugsley
See, that's really well, first of all, I'm sorry that the audio description did not work for you at the theater. But secondly, that's really interesting, because for me, the Looney Tunes characters were what I was able to make out the most in that movie, more so than the live action characters. But
Alex Howard
I feel like there's so much more of a spectrum with how people can see and how people can see just with colors and everything else. There's so many, you know, different ways. I mean, even just with us, clearly your eyesight interprets things different than mine.
Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I mean, it's like, I don't know, it's like so interesting because like, you know, visual impairment or blindness, it's very much on a spectrum because like, you know, even people that like, are completely blind, you know, some of them have light perception, some of them can, you know, see like shadows, and it's really all over the board that you can't really just categorize it one way or another. It's very much a spectrum, I would say
Alex Howard
I've always wished they had a machine that like even if they had to drill into my head and put a wire in my brain and have what I see pop up on the screen. And so that way the doctors could literally see what I'm seeing and tell me what I'm missing and that kind of thing. But that doesn't exist. So
Lee Pugsley
yeah, that would be really, really nice. And it would be really interesting. Also, I wish that there had a machine where like, we could switch like eyes or vision for a little bit just because I've always been like so curious to see what you see. And the way that you pick up on things and movies. Because I you can tell me but I don't fully know unless I'm you
Alex Howard
Yeah, no, exactly.
Lee Pugsley
Well, like you said, that brings us into our conversation topic for today, which is our movie theater going experiences with audio description. So I guess to just kind of give a bit of context for what we're going to be talking about, when me and Alex go to the movie theater. And usually it's the AMC chain, because that's what's most prominent around our area here in the LA area, we have to get an audio description device. And what that is, is it's a box that you could hold in your hand, and it comes with a headset, and you plug it in, you plug the headset into the box. And when the movie starts, if it's programmed correctly, the audio description track will come on, and it will narrate the action on screen when there is no dialogue. And there are certain channels that they have to program it on. Because there's two different channels. One of the channels is the audio description track, which is the narration track. And the other track is the audio enhancement track, which is where it just amplifies the sound of the movie into the headset.
Alex Howard
And that's for the deaf and hard of hearing.
Lee Pugsley
Yeah that is for the deaf and hard of hearing. And they do have a closed captioning device as well. That is a totally different device that I've never actually seen one of those or held one of those, have you?
Alex Howard
Yeah so what's great is when you go and order, you know, you have to go to guest services and be like, oh, I need audio description. And they bring out the closed captioning. And I'm just like, stop. I'm not even let you say anything. That is not what I need. I'm just like, immediately, no. And then I tell them that know the narration and they take it back. But yeah, the closed captioning is the thing that you can hook on the back of the seat in front of you. And it has the captions there. So you can read them.
Lee Pugsley
There are many frustrations about audio description in the movie theater going experience. But before we get to those, I'm curious to know Alex, why do you enjoy going to the movie theater? What makes going to a theater more exciting or pleasurable than just sitting at home and watching something on a streaming service where you know, audio description is going to be there and it's going to work?
Alex Howard
Well, I think the first incentive for me is seeing it first. Because obviously it goes to theaters first. So that's one incentive. Another incentive for me is a bigger screen. Because since I am low vision, the bigger is better for me. Because I can, you know, obviously see it easier. And then I think the other incentive for me is seeing it with a group of people. Especially you know, if it's a Marvel movie or a horror movie, if it's, you know, something even like Mario and your I'm not a huge Mario person, but seeing it with a group of Mario fans, helps you enjoy it more. So I think, you know, movie going is totally a communal experience. And I think something, I mean, some of the best experiences I've had like free guy, I went by myself, and a great you know, the theater energy is really, really key to having a good time at the movies.
Lee Pugsley
I totally vibe with you on all of that that going to a movie is definitely a communal experience. And there is nothing more exciting than the opening night energy of the first show time or one of the first show times of a movie. Even I guess like opening weekend is really exciting because all the audience's that go are really happy to be there. And it's fun to like, applauded together and to laugh together and to cry together in some cases as well.
Alex Howard
I feel like an MC you know, like, because of Nicole Kidman, you know what kind of crowd you're in. Because even last week, I saw John Wick again. And that crowd was cheering for Nicole Kidman. I was like, oh, this is gonna be a fun show because we got the cheering going already. So you know, that really cues you in as to what kind of show you're going to be in.
Lee Pugsley
And if you're a new listener that's just tuning in for this podcast. Just some context for the Nicole Kidman thing. So before every AMC movie since the theaters reopened in 2021 There's this promo where Nicole Kidman welcomes us to AMC right before the movie begins. This is right after the previews. And she does this little like one minute spiel about why we love going to the movies. And now it's kind of become this event that I always look forward to because I'm that person that will cheer so loud for Nicole and I'm always like, get a girl preach and like all of those kinds of things. And it's super fun and I'll try to generate like the crowd energy. It's really awkward though. If I'm like the only person that's like yelling for her and everyone's just looking at me like, Who is this guy? But you know, I own it. I'm all about it.
Alex Howard
Yeah, I've definitely been that guy to where, you know, it's quiet and I try and clap and get people going. Because yeah, it's more fun. You know the energy. You know, I, I'm here at AMC, like watching a movie, you know, I don't want like a dead theater.
Lee Pugsley
And then it's so funny because when the audience isn't reacting to Nicole Kidman, and I'm just like, oh, it's gonna be one of these kinds of audiences, isn't it? But then if they're, like, super intuitive, they're like, cheering I'm like, Okay, this is gonna be a fun audience.
Alex Howard
Yeah, I think it's strange, the energy I get the energy from, you know, going to baseball games and things to there's that, that excitement in the air. It's like, not tangible. And you don't get that on your couch. You know, I mean, my old roommate, and I watched New Mutants when it came out over the pandemic. And I was super stoked for that movie. But it's like, you know, it's not the same in your living room, as in the theater.
Lee Pugsley
Yeah, it's a totally different energy. Also, this reminded me that one of the other things that I used to do all the time was try to get audiences to cheer for ridiculous trailers. And my most proud moment was when I went to see the live action Lion King movie, they showed a trailer for the movie cats. And I just wanted to see if I could generate some enthusiasm for it. So I just started like clapping towards the end of it. And I'm like, Yeah, cats! let's go. And then the whole like, auditorium started cheering for it. And I'm like, none of these people are really excited for this movie. But I guess enthusiasm can be contagious. So there we go.
Alex Howard
Yeah, you definitely are able to capture a room like that with your energy.
Lee Pugsley
Thanks, then in terms of audio description, in movie theaters. Describe some of your experience with how that's gone.
Alex Howard
So I think it's funny because the theaters learned before the pandemic, how to do it. And then I feel like after the pandemic had to reteach one of the theaters. So originally, basically, they give you the device and you don't know if it's working until you know, the AMC stuff pops up. So either you get there really early, or I guess, technically on time when the trailers start, and there's an AMC, you know, thing in the before the trailers, and the description starts there. But if you don't get there in time, for that little thing, you have to wait till the trailers are over for the next AMC thing before the movie starts to hear if it's working or not. And so half the time, you know, I get there during the trailers, because I could wait for the device, all that. And then I literally, I don't recline my seat until I know the device is working. Because, you know, half the time it's not and you have to get up, go out, change it out, come back. So I usually sit in the handicap row, because I don't want to deal with stairs in a dark theater. I don't want to have to be like, Excuse me, excuse me, pardon me, you know, in front of people, because I've to go change out the AV device. So you know, I try and sit in an accessible seat. So I can get up and down because I you know, at this point I go in assuming I'm going to have to get up, even though I think about now it's probably maybe 25 to 15% of the time that I have to get up and actually change it. But even so, there are moments like that. And I think the most frustrating moment for me before the pandemic was Terminator dark fate. Because I'm a big Terminator fan. It's one of those one of those franchises that whenever there's new movie, I have to go see it. And I was so excited for it. So I went opening night, and they gave me the the ad device. And I didn't know whether it was working till the movie started. Of course, movie starts, and they're speaking Spanish. And I'm like, I don't know, Spanish, the audio description isn't working. So I literally ran out and I handed them the device and I was like, I need a new one. Can you bring it to my seat? And they were like, yes, what theater Are you and I told them and I ran back in and you know, I had to wait for them to come back. So I still miss a little bit of dialogue there in the beginning. It's frustrating like I think before the pandemic it was probably one in three movies I went to I would have to run out I missed the beginning of Detective Pikachu and all that, but um, they've gotten a lot better. But I think having this be an issue deters other low vision and blind people from going, you know, it's not like a regular audience where you buy a ticket and you're good. There's an extra step for us. So it's frustrating.
Lee Pugsley
I can definitely relate to a lot of those frustrations. And I guess one of the things that also is kind of frustrating is when you first get the ad device, you have the AMC promo before the trailer start that if you get there early enough like you said you can see if the ad is working there or you have the ad promo after the trailers are done that kind of welcomes you again to AMC and the description will usually work there if the device is working but then if you have I want to say it's in Dolby or for sure it's IMAX. IMAX. IMAX you don't even know if the ad device This is going to work until the movie actually begins. Because there have definitely been times where I've gone to the IMAX theater and I don't think it's working. So I'm standing up and getting prepared to make my way out to go switch out a device, and then it starts working. And I'm like, okay, I'm good, which is relieving?
Alex Howard
Yeah. I think in IMAX Yeah, it doesn't work until the actual movie starts. And even Adobe, like when I went to see Avatar the first time and Dolby, they just told me straight up that, you know, I didn't know this till it didn't work for me. And then I went and asked them what was up and they said, Oh, Dolby Audio Description hasn't been working. So there's like, the whole theater for that whole day or that week or whatever, it just wasn't working. So I had to get a timeline of when it was going to start and then leave, I had already bought popcorn, I was like, I'm gonna finish this. So I finished it. And then I left and I had to come back. And, you know, sit through the first 20 minutes of Avatar again, but I mean, it's just, it gets frustrating. And I'm like, it's funny, because the positives for us outweigh the negatives of going. So there's a production company called NEON. And usually, usually, when you go to the movies, you order your ticket, and it says audio description above the time. So you know whether it's going to happen or not. And so a lot of smaller movies that play here in LA, we have 30 theaters at the AMC here. So we get super, super small movies. A lot of those don't have it and it's not listed. But then there's a production company called neon who won best picture in 2019. Is that when pericyte? One Yeah, 20 or 2019? Yeah, so they produce pericyte. They're very hit or miss with AD, I pretty much now 50 Go in. And even if it says Audio Description, I'm like, I don't know if this is going to work. Because I think they put something in their file that makes AMC think that there's audio description, but there isn't. And I know it's probably not on purpose, but it's very annoying. Because we, you know, we don't drive. So we have to find our way to the theater, whether it's by bus, or by Uber, you know, pay for that, expecting there to be a way we can watch the movie. And then when there isn't a way we can watch the movie. It's like, Oh, my God, you serious?
Lee Pugsley
It's super frustrating with neon, because so many times it will say on the AMC app, or even in other non AMC theaters that I'm looking at, like it'll say that they have audio description for their movie. And like you were saying they don't all the time. And it's just so annoying to know that that's not reliable for that studio, specifically. And, yeah, it's frustrating, because it's an effort for us to go to the theater, it would be a lot different, I guess, if we drove if we drove. And it's also really annoying, I think when like we buy concessions to and then the audio description isn't working. And then we're like, do we stay? Or do we go because we already bought these concessions, not knowing if the movie is going to have audio description that's going to work or if their system is down for that day or whatever. And I used to think that maybe I should wait to buy concessions till I knew the audio description was going to work. But then I'm also like, I don't want to miss part of the movie, which if the ad isn't working, you missed the first five minutes of the movie anyway.
Alex Howard
So I do have a question for you. What do you do most of the time if, like if you're with friends, or if you're by yourself, what do you do if it's not working? Do you leave? Or do you stay?
Lee Pugsley
I would say and this is a great question that more often than not, nowadays, I will leave the theater and go try to switch out the audio description box. Even if I'm with friends, I will get up and go and my friends know now that I use the ad box and they know that it works half the time and it doesn't work the other half the time. Like you said though it has gotten better. Post pandemic when theaters reopened pre pandemic I just never expected the ad devices to work I didn't think that they were ever programmed correctly. And if it did work, it was like an added bonus to me where it's like oh wow, it's actually surprising that this ad device that should be working all the time is actually working this one time. And there have been certain times though like if it's let's say like a musical movie like the greatest showmen or West Side Story or something that I had some level of familiarity with, then I would just sit and watch it without ad. So I guess it kind of depends too on like what the movie is and if I want to try to exchange the ad device but because I'm so conditioned now to have audio description during movies it's really hard for me to fully take in a movie. Without ad? I do. Go switch it out more often than not.
Alex Howard
Oh, yeah, if it's well, switching out is one thing, because if it's not working, I'm gonna go switch it out. I don't care what the movie is or who I'm with. But if they come back, and they're like, hey, it's just straight up not working at all. Like, do you stay? Or do you take the, because they offer you a pass usually? Or do you because when I'm by myself, I'll leave. I'm like, I'm not getting the full experience anyway, I'll come back, you know, another day, or I'll go to a different theater or something. But if I'm by myself, I'll leave. But usually, if neon I'll go with my old roommate or something, so that that way, if it's not working, I have someone there who can at least whisper in my ear something. What's going on on screen?
Lee Pugsley
Okay, I see, I see what you're asking now. So if ad just isn't working in that theater, and there's no way that they can fix it. It's really half and half. Because if I've taken the effort to get to the theater, and I'm already settled in to some degree, part of me is like, well, I'm already here, I might as well pick up on what I can, and then try to rewatch the movie later, whether that's on streaming, or I go back to the theater to do it. Especially when I used to take the bus from Glendale to Burbank, because it's like, you know, a half hour bus ride. So I've already made the effort to go wait at the bus stop and to take the bus over there, walk to the theater, then if ad isn't working, I'm like, Well, I don't want to just have to spend like another 40 minutes to get home without getting any kind of, I don't know, if I want to use the word compensation, I don't want to spend. I mean, I don't want to just leave without having seen anything. So I'll just stay and take in what I can, but I'm not happy about it when those things have happened.
Alex Howard
I've had this debate so much in my head, especially with Space Jam, I was like, am I going to sit here, sit through this movie, and then feel like I have to come back and watch it again. Where's my time going, or my I mean, as you and I are, we always have a laundry list of things we need to watch. So I was like, I might as well go home and watch something else that's on my list that has already a description that I can fully take in and come back another day. You know, it's gonna cost me the same amount to get home regardless. So I, I kind of convinced myself that way. But yeah, it's a it's a debate for sure. And it's frustrating. But what are some ways do you think that the theater can improve? I think our theaters are really good like Burbank is now I think really good at it. But I'm sure around the country, there are other theaters that probably mess up more than our theaters here. And we are in a huge market here. I'm sure in you know, Kentucky somewhere. There's some low vision person that goes to the theater and they're like, I we don't know, you know, what you need? What do you what are some ways that you think the theaters can improve?
Lee Pugsley
I think that the most important way that movie theaters can improve in making sure that movies are accessible for all patrons is just educating their employees on what audio description is, what these devices do, and how to program them. Because putting AMC aside, there have been a few other theaters I've gone to around LA, where I've asked for an audio description device. And one of the theaters and went to the employer was like, Oh, we don't have those. And then the manager stepped in. And she was like, No, we actually do have those. But he had never seen one of those, he had no clue what you know, ad was and what those devices did. And, you know, offering a little bit of grace there. If no one had ever explained it to the employee. I don't fault him. But I did actually talk to the manager. And I was like, hey, because I'm visually impaired. And because I do go to movies a fair amount. I just want to encourage you to educate your employees on what audio description is and how to program these devices. Because I think a big issue is people just don't have an awareness, that ad is a thing for movies. And then secondly, they don't know how to program the devices correctly.
Alex Howard
I also think it would go a long way if people knew how important it was to people. Like I feel like once you know what it means to other people, then you'll take the time and effort to make sure that it works well.
Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I absolutely agree. And I think that All employers. And I think that employers should just sit down with all of their employees at some point or whenever they get a new employee in and be like, This is how you program this device correctly, make sure it's on this channel, make sure you press these buttons to get up there. Because pre pandemic at the Burbank AMC, I felt like every employee programmed it differently. They weren't on the same page with how to program the ad boxes. Did you feel that way as well?
Alex Howard
Well I know. So I used to work at the AMC Burbank for some background, but I know that AMC only the managers do it. But I also know at AMC, they have something twice a year where all the employees come in at like 7am. And they have this presentation. And they bring you know, bagels or whatever to give it to the employees. And it's like two hours of Adam Aaron, who's the AMC CEO or whoever, you know, that's when they introduced the new menus and all that stuff. That would be the time to be like, Hey, this is what this is. This is why it's important to make sure all the employees know and mean to be fair. Not I'm sure not all the employees are paying attention all the time. But so make the effort to make sure that you know, make the employees aware. And I feel like even even if the staff isn't programming it, it's important that they know because they're the ones that, you know, I walk in, I tell the ticket taker, hey, I need audio description, she has to tell the manager I need audio description. But if she says closed captioning, and he comes down with closed captioning, then have to wait for him to go back up. Get me the you know the right thing come back down. And you know, that still takes time and everything. So it's important for everyone to know how to do it, right.
Lee Pugsley
And one of the things that I always make very clear now when I get an ad device is I always tell them this is not the audio enhancement track which just once again amplifies the sound of the movie. This is the audio description track, which is the VI narration track.
Alex Howard
What is Vi?
Lee Pugsley
visually impaired.
Alex Howard
Okay, so see, I've heard them say to each other narration. So now whenever they hand me the device, I I look them in the eye and I say this is narration right? And they say yes, sir. Yeah, I
Lee Pugsley
just say all I'm just like audio description vi narration, so that way they have three reinforcements that this is what I'm looking for. And I specifically say, make sure it is not the audio enhancement track. Because pre pandemic, I would get the audio enhancement track.
Alex Howard
I was talking to someone on our Facebook forum, we're in a audio description, community group on Facebook. So the group is called Audio Description discussion. And so I put a poll up in the group asking if blind and low vision consumers who goes to the theater whenever they want, who doesn't go to the theater, as much as they would like because of audio description, hassle and all of that. And who doesn't go to the theater as much as they would like for other reasons. And about 24% of people said that they don't go because of the hassle of AD. But I was talking to someone in the comments. And he said he goes all the time, no problem. And he said the device they use has the the big headphones, it's built into the headphones themselves. And it's audio enhancement in one ear and audio description and the other new turn it up and down individually like that. And I asked him Can you hear it Okay, in IMAX? And he said he could. Which is surprising because I know for us with the headphones they give us we can't hear it and IMAX and Dolby. So I bring my own ear buds, the in-ear ear buds and plug in my own device so that I can hear over the Dolby sound.
Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I do that too. I bring my own earbuds for Dolby IMAX or prime because the volume on the ad boxes at the AMC Theaters doesn't always go super high. And when there's a lot of like loud music or loud action and sound, it's really hard to hear what's going on unless you have an earbud kind of jammed in your ear. But to your point about the guy that you were dialoguing with Alex, I really liked those headphones. I've used them a few times at other movie theaters. And it's really great because each ear has their own volume. And so you can turn the volume up really high in one year or you can turn it down really low.
Alex Howard
And I feel like that also makes it easier to program because can't really program that wrong because you got both tracks right there at AMC right now. You know they have to it's either one or the other.
Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I think if AMC were to get those headphones that the audio enhancement and audio description tracks were on the same device. I think that might be able to save some headache as well. And that could also be a viable solution. One of the other solutions I know that we've talked about is if there was a way to do the audio description on your phone, like you checked into a movie or there was a login or something that you could get on the AMC app. And then you could just select what movie you were going to and your phone would sync up the audio description track with the movie that you were in. And that way it was just all digital, and, you know, on Wi Fi, or data or whatever, it would just be so convenient, wouldn't it?
Alex Howard
Yeah, I think ideally, I mean, not only would that take the pressure off the theater staff to make it accessible, it will literally only be up to the people programming the app. And I think the way you want to do it is once you scan the ticket, it gets you access to the track itself. But I think the biggest problem with that is at the AMC six in Burbank, there's no service in the theaters. So that's I think, where the issue would come in. But I think that would be the ideal way to do it. And I don't know if people at AMC or regal or wherever haven't thought of this, but I really do think it would take so much pressure off the theaters themselves to get this accessibility stuff, right. And it will leave it up to the consumer.
Lee Pugsley
Or another option, actually, it would be so like the AMC six where there's not service. And I've been in other movie theaters where service is not great for cell phones, that maybe they could just have their own device where it's kind of like a phone app. And it's kind of like, you know, one of those devices that you could just select the movie you wanted on there digitally, kind of like you were doing it on your phone, but it's their own like specific app. And then you just choose the movie that you want the audio description track for, and it just syncs up once you go into the theater. So kind of like the same idea as doing it on your phone. But without having to worry about are you going to get cell phone service, they would supply their own devices that would do the same as you're saying, yeah. And that you could still like sync with like, you know, a bluetooth headphone or something like that.
Alex Howard
That'd be great. But yeah, I think they are missing out clearly the pool that I asked for, you know, there's 24% of blind or low vision consumers that are deterred from going to the movies, because of the lack of conveniency for the device. So I think there's a gap there that the theaters can improve upon to appeal to more customers.
Lee Pugsley
And we always see stories on the audio description discussion group of people that went to the movie theater and had frustrating times with the audio description devices as well. And it's more of a common issue than one would think.
Alex Howard
How often do you go usually,
Lee Pugsley
I probably go to the theater. On average two times a week, sometimes it's three times a week, but I'd say an average two times a week. What about yourself? Yeah,
Alex Howard
probably, probably two times at least, maybe three, I think I mean, the theater is my happy place. You know, when I, especially in a day where I don't have anything going on, I'll try and get out of the house. And it's usually to go to the movies, when I don't have a doctor appointment or whatever. And that's my movie day. And so, literally, I've had days where I am feeling melancholy or sad for some reason. And I'll get out and go to a movie by myself. And just being there cheers me up.
Lee Pugsley
I can relate to that. And I go to the movies for all of the same reasons. And one last question about audio description in movie theaters for you is, I know that you had mentioned that you go with other people sometimes that can describe a movie to you that doesn't have an ad track or if the ad isn't working. And what have those experiences been like for you when someone is kind of whispering in your ear, like what's going on?
Alex Howard
It's very, I appreciate it. But you also feel very different. I remember I went to see the latest neon movie Enys Men with my old roommate, and we were fully expecting it not to work, which it didn't. And you know, it's not working when the AMC promo works, and then it just sounds like a blank record. And you just I'm not even gonna leave the theater because I know, there's just no track on this. And so my roommate was describing to me, and the guy behind me, leaned forward and he was like, Hey, can you guys be quiet? I can't, you know, pay attention with you guys talking. And my roommate looked back in here like he can't see so you know, kind of, it's fine. And I felt so small. I was just like, I don't even want to be here. I'm just like, it's like I feel bad. Like, I know it's not my fault at all. But you feel like I don't want to ruin his experience. Maybe I shouldn't be here at all. Maybe I should just leave Yeah. And so like, it's not fun, and I get why people are deterred from not wanting to go, if it's going to be such a hassle. And especially even like, that's why I sit in the handicap row. Because if it doesn't work, I don't want to have to be like, you know, excuse me, pardon me, like, in front of everyone, and then I'm messing up their experience. So, you know, I try and make it as convenient for other people as I can. But at the same time, sometimes it's not very convenient for me.
Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I totally get you on that. In my experience with someone describing a movie. To me, it reminds me of when I went to see the shape of water, it was like opening day. And we were in a sold out theater, basically, like all the way in the last row. And the ad wasn't working. And at that time, I was still getting used to AD and I didn't want to get up and exchange it. So my friend was reading the all of the subtitles, because you have the sign language and everything, and was describing to me what was going on. But I was like, so paranoid that other people were going to get mad, or it was ruining their experience. And even when I have the ad device, I'm always so conscious of the people sitting next to me, if you know, they're right next to me, I'll kind of turn the volume down really low on quiet parts, and then turn it up louder when there's music and everything. But I'm just afraid that they're going to hear it. And that's going to like ruin their movie going experience. And granted, there's nothing that we can do about it, we need audio description to fully take in a movie. But there's all those dynamics that I'm consciously thinking about and become very self conscious about.
Alex Howard
Oh, yeah. And I think in a funny way, it's almost, I'm making sure your date is cool. Like, I remember with my, with my x, we went to see parasite and she would like describe each scene to me as it was happening, because it didn't have AD, my current girlfriend like she, our second date, we went to see lat last night in Soho, and I got the ad, it didn't work, I didn't want to get up and change it. Because I was like, I'm, I've been looking forward to this movie, I'm not going to run out, miss some of this on this date. And forget it, I'm not going to do it. And so she got the clue real quick and described what was happening on screen. And it's like, that's how you know you're with someone cool. When they do it without, you know, Oh, it's you know, I want to enjoy the movie on my own whatever. It's a real good indication of you know, who, who you want to spend your time with.
Lee Pugsley
That's a great analogy. And I think the bottom line for this whole conversation is the fact that you know, blind and low vision, people really do enjoy going to the movies as well. And there's still a lot that we can take in from it. But also to keep it real, it is an extra effort. And it is a hassle sometimes, because there's these added frustrations and things that we have to deal with that, you know, side of people may not think about just because that's not their experience. And it's frustrating to go to a movie, wondering if your experience is going to be complete or not.
Alex Howard
But then even, here's the thing, there's a lot of things the theaters can do to improve. But I think if you as a consumer need audio description, and I was on a date, and I didn't say anything because of that, but if you don't say anything they will never learn. So if it doesn't work, go out, try and change it out, make sure it works so that they know, like I think, yes, it's on them. But I think we as a community need to educate the theaters to get this better.
Lee Pugsley
I completely agree. And that's why if you're at a movie theater, and you're having a frustration, please ask to speak to a manager and just educate them on this is how I enjoy a movie. This is what's frustrating about my experiences coming here. Can we work together to find a viable solution so that you can still get my business and I can still enjoy your movie theater. And there's also a very diplomatic and kind way to do it that I don't think educating theater owners or movie goers has to be done in a blameful or mean sort of way that we can still all do it with kindness and respect as well. Oh, yeah.
Alex Howard
My my grandpa always used to say you attract more bees with honey than vinegar. And I think if you're, if you're nice about it, like with Terminator dark fate, I was probably the most mad I've ever been at the ad. And I was probably short with them. I didn't yell at them. And I was like, can you bring this to me? Okay, thank you and I ran back to my theater. But you know, like, just, if you're nice, it's like you're educating people, but it's hard. I get it. It's frustrating but I don't No, this is why disabled people are so cool. I feel like we're super super. We we take it, but we don't dish it out as much because we know how it is.
Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I mean, I think that there's a level of empathy that it gives us and a deeper level of understanding in some ways. Okay. Well, I guess that wraps up this episode. Any other closing thoughts, Alex?
Alex Howard
I don't think. I don't think so. I think it's just, you know, like I said, educate the theaters, I think spreading this podcast around and you know, your own experience, please email us with your, we would love to hear from anyone else who has low vision or blind. Any experiences you've had at the theater, your favorite theaters, keep it positive. So please, like, email us any topics you want to hear any life experiences you've had? We honestly just love connecting with other blind people, too. So hit us up. Dark Room film cast@gmail.com. You can follow us on Instagram, dark room film Cast. And yeah. Any other thoughts? Lee?
Lee Pugsley
No, I think that you pretty much covered it. And also, one last thing I'll throw out there. If you're a theater employee, or a movie theater manager, and you're listening to this podcast, we would love to hear your experience with audio description. There's anything that's frustrating or glitchy about it on your end, that maybe there's an aspect of it that we don't fully understand or just even how many blind or low vision people you get into your theatres. I would be. We would both be very curious to know your stories as well.
Alex Howard
That's what's so funny is before we met, I was like, there's no one else using audio description in Burbank. Like, I always felt like I was the only one you know, kind of makes you feel like an alien. So it's always nice to me. You're like, oh, you use it to in the theater. Like, you know, there's that instant connection.
Lee Pugsley
I thought the same thing as you out. I'm like, I'm the only one that goes to the movie theater. That's like low vision and I'm the only one that goes this often. And then I met you and the rest is history here.
Alex Howard
have And now we have a podcast.
Lee Pugsley
Well guys, thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you back here next time on The Dark Room take care
Transcribed by https://otter.ai