Alex and Lee give their reactions to the 2024 Oscars ceremony and winners and review DUNE: PART 2.
Please follow us on Instagram and YouTube at @darkroomfilmcast and if you have any questions or comments, we would love to hear from you! You can email us at darkroomfilmcast@gmail.com.
Alex and Lee give their reactions to the 2024 Oscars ceremony and winners and review DUNE: PART 2.
Please follow us on Instagram and YouTube at @darkroomfilmcast and if you have any questions or comments, we would love to hear from you! You can email us at darkroomfilmcast@gmail.com.
Lee Pugsley
What's up, everyone? Welcome back to episode 26 of The Dark Room, where two blind cinephiles Illuminate the sighted. I'm Lee Pugsley.
Alex Howard
I'm Alex Howard.
Lee Pugsley
This is a podcast hosted by two legally blind guys for film lovers of all abilities. In the last couple of weeks, we've had some pretty big events that have happened within the entertainment community. The first one being the Oscars. Alex and I are going to go ahead and talk about our reactions to this year's Oscar ceremony as well as the winners. We also had the release of the long-awaited Dune Part 2. We are going to also give our thoughts on the movie and Oscar potential for that movie as well. Let's just dive right in. Alex, what were your general thoughts on the Oscar ceremony itself that happened a few weeks ago?
Alex Howard
I thought the Oscars was a really good show. I thought it was the best show they've had in a while. I know this was the first time they had an actual host in a while, right? Did they have one last year?
Lee Pugsley
I can't remember off the top of my head. I want to say they had a host last year, but I have no clue at this very moment who that was.
Alex Howard
This Oscars felt like a return to form, almost, to me. My favorite moment of the night was the "I'm Just Ken" performance, which going into the ceremony, that's what I was looking forward to the most. It definitely paid off. They choreographed that so well. It was so great. I'm a big Ryan Gosling fan, as you all know already. The whole vibe of that performance was awesome. I really love the Arnold Schwarzenegger-Danny DeVito reunion. That was great. I'm a big Arnold fan. I thought the show itself was just really, really, really funny. Jimmy Kimmel did a great job hosting. He wasn't, I guess, the same kind of humor as, obviously, Ricky Gervais or Billy Crystal, but he had some great dad jokes that I appreciated. Overall, I thought it was a really great show.
Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I completely agree with that. I mean, the highlight for sure was "I'm Just Ken," and Ryan Gosling honestly sounded so good on the song live, arguably even better than he sounds on the recorded version, which is very rare when someone could say that. I also enjoyed the rest of the original song performances and thought that they looked really good from a visual standpoint, from what I could make out. I thought they were just very well-directed in their execution, and all the performers did a really good job with the songs. He did what he needed to do. He came in there, he kept things moving forward. I thought the flow of the show overall was pretty good, and they kept things just pushing forward without a lot of lag time. I agree with you two about Danny DeVito and Arnold Schwarzenegger. That was really fun, and I really enjoyed John Mulaney's a bit, I think we need to get him in as an Oscar host sometime because he's awesome.
Alex Howard
Oh, yeah. That would be really funny. I love John Mulaney. I want to get your thoughts on the way they presented, especially for the actors. I know they started off the show with best supporting actress, like they usually do. They brought out five actresses that had won, and they gave this 30 seconds to a minute long speech about each nominee. At first, when it started, I was like, "Oh, my God, are we going to be doing this for every category? This is going to take so long." Starting off with that, I was panicking a bit like, "This is not going to be a good show." They made it work really well because I think they didn't bring out a different presenter for each category. They lumped them together like, Documentary Short, Documentary, and then Live Animated Feature. They grouped together well enough so that they didn't have to take the time to bring out a new presenter, do another bit. And so they had the time to do the special thing that they did for each of the acting categories.
Lee Pugsley
Exactly. Like I said, they kept the flow really smooth as a whole. And in terms of the past Oscar winners presenting awards to the current Oscar winner and presenting the nominees in that way, I really enjoyed that. I know that some of those presenters, you could tell, actually had a connection with the nominee that they were talking about, and you could tell that there was a friendship that had been formed through the years. Those were my favorite presenters because it was just a deeper emotional draw. Now, the question for you is, would you rather have the Oscar clips being shown or the past nominees introducing the current nominated?
Alex Howard
See, I really like the way they did it, but I also talked to some people who aren't into movies as much as we are who watched it, and they said, if they were talking about Emma Stone, "What movie was she in?" If they don't know the nominees as well as us, I think it might have helped to have clips in there as well.
Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I can see that point. I think what I can say is for this year, it was refreshing to have the nominees presented in this way. Maybe they can split the difference and next year go back to the clips, and then the year after, do the past Oscar presenters again. I guess we'll just see where it goes. I don't think there would be enough time, though, to do the past Oscar winners presenting the current acting nomination and then doing a clip. I think that would be too much, and I think that would start to drag after a while.
Alex Howard
It has to be one or the other, I think, for sure. The other thing about the show that people are a little mad about the Robert Downey, Jr. thing with Ke Huy Quan, which I don't know. I think that was the total mistake. I don't think that was anything on purpose. But besides that, where they brought out Al Pacino to read the best picture winner, and he didn't read any of the nominees. He just said, "I see Oppenheimer," and everyone was so confused as to what was happening. What did you think about that?
Lee Pugsley
That was an awkward moment that I think people are going to remember for maybe not the right reasons, but it was just so awkward because it was anticlimactic, and he just seemed really, "Whatever." He was just like, "How does that look? I need to open it. I see Oppenheimer." But he was also slurring his speech a little, and I want to be very sensitive about that because he's old. I don't know if he had a few drinks or whatever, but it just wasn't a clean presentation at all. For the biggest award of the night and the biggest award of the year in film, I think moving forward, the producers need to think a little bit more about the presentation. I know I talked to you off the record about this, that oftentimes when they bring out these legacy actors, or maybe in in some cases, directors, there's a fair amount of the time where the presentation of best picture just seems a little awkward, maybe not as awkward as it did for the Al Pacino moment, but there's always a slight degree of awkwardness. I don't know if that's because those presenters don't rehearse presenting the best picture.
Alex Howard
Yeah, I feel like Al Pacino gave the vibe of like, "I don't really care." Did you get that vibe a little bit?
Lee Pugsley
Oh, absolutely.
Alex Howard
Yeah, it was almost like he hadn't rehearsed at all because he's Al Pacino. He doesn't need to rehearse.
Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I could see that, and I think that came through in a pretty big way. Another component I wanted to touch on about this year's Oscar ceremony is that we did have live audio description for it. I didn't get to watch the ceremony with audio description, but I do want to commend the team behind that for making audio description possible and making these live award shows more accessible. It's something that until recently, we haven't had the luxury of having.
Alex Howard
Yeah, definitely. I think Descriptive Video Works did the Oscar, so thank you, Descriptive Video Works for providing that. I was not able to watch it with audio description either. I think it's a little hard to access the SAP channel from a streaming service. I was watching on YouTube TV or Sling or something like that. I think it's easier to access it when you're actually watching on cable or such things like that. But I was able to watch the SAG Awards with audio description. I will say the AD not only helps with the fashion part of things, but for me, especially, my favorite part of having AD on award shows is the In Memoriam segment because I can't read any of those names, and they always have a very touching song playing in the background. It was so nice to watch the SAG Awards and have them reading the names out, and it was much more impactful. Thank you to Descriptive Video Works for making the Oscars accessible for the second year in a row. And Nefertiti, I'd like to shout out her. She was one of the people who did the live audio description for the Oscars, and I actually got to meet up with her and have dinner on Friday night before the Oscars. So it was really nice to meet her in person and talk to her because I know we've had interactions with her online.
Lee Pugsley
And we're hoping to have her on our show soon. I've never met her, but I'm glad you were able to meet up with her. And I know she's done a lot within the audio description community to advanced accessibility. I look forward to having her on a future episode of our podcast. I'm sure that she has a lot of really cool insight to share.
Alex Howard
Yeah, we want to talk to her about being blind and doing live audio description, which sounds very fascinating. So it'll be great if we can get her on the show.
Lee Pugsley
Another aspect of live audio description for network TV events, whether it's a TV show or live events, is making sure that the accessibility features of how to get the audio description track are easy to find. What I've realized from trying to find audio description tracks for network TV myself is that it can be complicated to know where to go, what menus to go to, what buttons to press, and how to access the audio description track. I don't know what the solution is. I just think there needs to be more education or explanation of how to go through that process.
Alex Howard
Yeah, I even think it'd be great if at the beginning of the show, I know for Spanish, it would have text pop up and say, "If you wanted to watch this program in Spanish, go to your SAP channel," or something like that. Obviously, blind people can't read that message. So it'd be great if at the start of the show or something, if the Academy was proud of the accessibility that they were providing, being like, "Hey, if you need audio description, turn to this channel." Something like that, just real quick to explain to viewers if they need it, how to access it.
Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I think that would be a really good way to go about it.
Alex Howard
Also, I think the SAG Awards was pretty easy to figure out because it was on Netflix, and everyone has had to access audio description on Netflix. I think eventually we'll get to the point where the Oscars is on a streaming service. We'll get there at some point. I think at that point, it will be a lot easier to access the AD.
Lee Pugsley
That is the clearest pathway to audio description, is when it's on a streaming service that already has accessibility and audio description tracks built in. But obviously, not every award show is on a streaming service right now. But like you said, I think as we progress, I could see a world where there is an option to watch an award show live on network TV, whether it's through an antenna or cable, or you have the option to find a streaming service that also is airing it live, too.
Alex Howard
I'd also like to shout out Tristan. He was one of the people the live audio description for the SAG Awards, and he's also blind. So he was on our Oscars audio description roundtable.
Lee Pugsley
And we're hoping to have him on future podcast episode as well. He has a lot of very fascinating things that he does, including being a sound engineer and a variety of other things that I probably don't know about. But yeah, it'll be exciting. So let's go ahead and shift gears now into the actual winners from this year's Oscars. Was there anything that was surprising to you and any speeches that you really resonated with?
Alex Howard
I think the most surprising... I mean, Emma Stone was the runner up, but I think even she was shocked that she won because Lily Gladstone won the SAG Award. Just with the history of Lily Gladstone being the first Indigenous person to be nominated and possibly being the first person to win, I was thinking she was going to be the winner. When they called Emma Stone, I think everyone was a little taken aback, including her. So that was a big shocker. I think Poor Things winning... I think it won all the crafts awards, right? That was a pretty big shocker, too. Everything else was pretty standard, but Emma Stone was the big one for me. She was very gracious with her speech and all of that. She's always very thankful. It didn't come off as ignorant or anything like that. That was good.
Lee Pugsley
I agree. Her speech was very gracious, and she definitely was very emotional. I don't think, to your point, she was expecting the win. For me, though, I have to say that I wasn't necessarily surprised. I knew that the front runner at the time was Lily Gladstone, but Emma Stone has also won a lot of awards throughout the season, and so I wasn't going to be surprised if either one of these actresses won. For the historic moment of Lily Gladstone being the first Indigenous person to win an Oscar, I really wanted to see that moment, and I really wanted her to get up there and give a speech because I think it would have been really powerful. That being said, Emma Stone was phenomenal in Poor Things, and even though I didn't like that movie, the more that I think about it, the more I realized how much I didn't like that movie, her work in that movie was absolutely fantastic. She created this very nuanced and highly complex character. But what I would say to about all of the best actresses in that category this year is that all of them gave wonderful performances, and you could make an argument about any of them winning, and it would be a deserved win. So while I wanted that moment for Lily Gladstone, and that doesn't change even now as I'm talking about it, I don't diminish any of the other acting performances in the best actress category. They were all spectacular.
Alex Howard
I completely agree. I think, objectively, Emma Stone was the best performance. I think it was the best she's ever been, like I've said, and she's already won an Oscar for LaLa Land. So I think it was very well deserved that she won this one.
Lee Pugsley
I was thinking about it, when Poor Things won costume design, production design, and especially hair and makeup, which we all thought was going to go to Maestro due to the aging work that they did on that movie. I was like, "Oh, they really do like Poor Things. I think that Emma Stone could have a chance to pull off the win in the acting category." Especially if you think about the hair and makeup branch in the past. The hair and makeup win is typically connected to the best actor or actress. You think about Brandon Fraser in The Whale or Jessica Chastain in The Eyes of Tammy Fay. Gary Oldman in the Darkest Hour, I believe. There always seems to be a correlation, or a majority of the time. I was thinking about that correlation while the awards were being given out. Another somewhat surprising thing for me, to a minor degree was Zone of Interest winning best sound over Oppenheimer. And objectively, I do think that Zone of Interest probably has better sound work done, and also is at the forefront of movie. Like you've mentioned this several times, it plays a main character in the narrative that it's telling. I wasn't completely caught off guard by it, but I really thought Oppenheimer was going to pull off the sound win.
Alex Howard
Yeah, that's one that I actually had correct on my ballot was Zone of Interest because I do think the sound plays such a big part in that. I got 15 out of 23 on my ballot. What did you get?
Lee Pugsley
I got 16 out of 23 on my ballot. But the sound category I missed, and then one of the other categories that we can talk about now is visual effects. It went to Godzilla Minus One, which... I thought their speech was really fun and heartfelt, and I really appreciated their speech. However, we have to talk about the fact that that movie didn't have audio description, and I know that we've touched on this before, so we never got to experience that movie or the visual effects in that movie, too.
Alex Howard
Yeah, I think when it won, everyone at the viewing party I was at was cheering and really happy about it because most people who have seen that movie, love that movie. I think there was a bit of imposter syndrome going on there when it was like, "Oh, I can't even watch this movie." And I'm happy for them, this was the first... I mean, the movie had a $15 million budget, and it won best visual effects at the Oscars. That's a pretty big deal. And it's not even an American movie, which is an even bigger deal. I think it's funny that everyone, including the Academy and just the world in general right now, is saying inclusivity is like the cool thing now. And they're like, "Look how inclusive we are. We gave it to Godzilla minus one, a foreign film." And it's like, "Yeah, but we need to go the extra mile and make sure that everyone is able to watch this." I feel like people don't even think about that, like, blind people can't watch that. Same with Boy and the Heron. We can't watch that one either. And so it's frustrating that the Academy hasn't made audio description a requirement yet, which... I mean, it's understandable because the cost associated with international features. It's so frustrating that there were two winners that we haven't seen because we literally can't see them. I think most of the other nominees, you and I saw most of them before the first of the year, even. So it's a little frustrating at that. I'm trying to stay positive and be like, "Oh, now that they've won, maybe they'll get audio description. But the reality is, Parasite still doesn't even have it. So what are the chances that Godzilla will have it?
Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I feel all of those frustrations as well as as a passionate movie buff and also someone who is in the blind community that is frustrating that we are put at such a disadvantage because these high-profile movies that are getting a lot of acclaim don't have audio description. On one hand, I do celebrate the wins with the visual effects for Godzilla and the best animated feature for Boy and the Heron because those people should be recognized has been commended for their work. I know it's not their fault that these movies didn't have audio description. I more so look now to the distributors and the studios that are putting these movies out there to ensure that there's full accessibility for people of all abilities, audio description being a very big component of that accessibility.
Alex Howard
Like you said, it's not the people's fault who won. Most of the movies that don't have audio description, they probably don't even know what that is. All we can do is educate and create awareness, which is what we're trying to do with the podcast.
Lee Pugsley
Yeah, it's a process, and sometimes that's very unfortunate. We just have to continue pressing forward and educating and dialoguing with people so that they can have a chance to learn and grow as well. We're all learning, we're all growing, we're all constantly emerging. But hopefully, there will be more growth next year, and we won't have to have the same conversation on the podcast next year about movies that were inaccessible.
Alex Howard
I feel bad sometimes hanging out with friends and stuff, and they bring up... They start talking about a movie like Godzilla or... when Zone of Interest didn't have AD, and they're talking about how great it is or details of the movie or whatever, and I just sit there and I'm like, "I can't really contribute." But I don't want to shut down the conversation either and be like, "Oh, that movie sucks." Because no, it's not... It's probably a great movie. I just can't enjoy it. So hopefully, we'll get to the point where everything has it at some point.
Lee Pugsley
I really, really hope so. Going back to the Oscar winners, was there a speech or multiple speeches that stuck out to you?
Alex Howard
Robert Downey Jr., I could listen to him talk all the time. I love his personality and everything. He's got that playful asshole personality, kinda like Roman in Succession, not to that extent. He comes off self-absorbed. You know it's like an act. You know what I mean? It's like fun.
Lee Pugsley
There's definitely a level of charm to how he presents himself.
Alex Howard
Yes, that's definitely the right word. I mean, I loved his speech at SAG. I could listen to him talk all day. Maybe it's the Iron Man part of it all. But Da'Vine Joy Randolph was also really good. Her speeches are always great, too.
Lee Pugsley
Her speeches are so wonderful. And once again, because I'm a big Holdover fan, maybe I'm just so attached to that whole cast. She just presents herself with such a genuine humility that I really appreciate it. She does come up oftentimes with a piece of paper and reads from the paper, but it still comes across as very genuine and heartfelt. I appreciated the fact that this time around, she didn't have a paper in front of her, that she was really just speaking from her heart.
Alex Howard
I also really love that everyone who won for Oppenheimer would bring up Emma Thomas, and they always brought her up, sometimes bring up Nolan. Everyone associates Nolan with Oppenheimer, so you don't even really need to say his name. Everyone who got up there said Emma Thomas, and I really like that Nolan's wife is getting so much praise for this movie because she's done so much for all his movies, and I feel like she's gone under the radar as far as credit is concerned. And she got to go up there and make the speech for best picture. So that was amazing, too.
Lee Pugsley
It really was. And on a side note, whenever they would say Emma Thomas, I kept thinking they were going to say Emma Thompson, literally every time, even though I know that this is not an association with Emma Thompson at all. But I was just like, "Emma Thompson." I'm like, "Oh, no, it's Emma Thomas." I am really happy for her, though, that she is getting the credit that she deserves, and she rightfully deserves that recognition. Another speech that I liked was the 20 Days in Mariupol winner who won for Best Documentary. I just felt like it was a very powerful speech that reminded us, "Hey, there is still something going on in the Ukraine."
Alex Howard
Yes, definitely. That was a very heartfelt speech. I love that he said he would trade this award for this event never happening. I thought that was a very catching a statement.
Lee Pugsley
And I'm glad that the orchestra didn't get played off because I was really worried that they were going a bit long with the speech. I was like, "Oh, they're going to cut him off." And I'm really happy that they let him finish his whole speech.
Alex Howard
Yeah, I completely agree. Do you know if that has audio description anywhere?
Lee Pugsley
I don't know. I actually don't even know where it's streaming.
Alex Howard
Yeah, I really do want to see it. I saw there a bunch of the documentaries and other things streaming on Netflix. I know the other one up for best cinematography also doesn't have audio description, I don't think. The Spanish one?
Lee Pugsley
El Conde, yeah. It doesn't have audio description. Last I checked. Yeah.
Alex Howard
But I mean, we beat that topic. It's fine. We can leave that alone. But yeah, I really would be interested in seeing 20 Days in Mariupol if it is streaming anywhere because I hear it's a very hard-hitting documentary. I hear it's really good.
Lee Pugsley
I also really want to see The Last Repair Shop now.
Alex Howard
Yes. Yeah, that too. All the shorts seem really interesting as well.
Lee Pugsley
Then one last speech that stuck out to me was Cord Jefferson for winning for adapted screenplay for American Fiction. He seems like a really cool guy, and I really appreciated the fact that he was talking about, Instead of spending $200 million on one movie, why not give 20 people a chance to make a movie for $10 million each? Just his appreciation for being given a chance to get this movie made, and he mentioned in his speech that he was turned down by a lot of different people and places before someone wanted to purchase this script. It makes me happy that he got a chance, and I really appreciate the fact that he was inspiring others to give people the same chance.
Alex Howard
I think you and I had mentioned before, it's very meta that American Fiction won for screenplay because the whole concept of that movie, and the movie ends with the character winning an award for the story. So it's very meta that he won the award.
Lee Pugsley
So many things about that movie are meta. We won't get into all those details right now, but it's so interesting how it's like life imitates art sometimes. I think that American Fiction is a great example of life imitating art on a variety of levels.
Alex Howard
Yes. Yeah, definitely. I think, although I wouldn't have picked Oppenheimer as best picture, I can acknowledge Oppenheimer is a very momentous, cinematic achievement. It's a different Nolan movie than he's made before, and I can acknowledge how great it is, even if it wasn't necessarily my favorite movie of the year. I can see why it is important enough to win Best Picture.
Lee Pugsley
It's great that Christopher Nolan finally got his long overdue Oscar.
Alex Howard
Oh, definitely, yeah.
Lee Pugsley
I am very happy for that. Before we move on to Dune part 2, any other final thoughts that we haven't discussed regarding the Oscar ceremony?
Alex Howard
I don't think so. I thought it was one of the better shows they've had in the last few years. I'm glad-- It really feels like the Oscars are back in a way since before the pandemic. So I'm excited to see where things are going to go from here. I also really like that they kept bringing up the strikes from last year and saying how great it is that everyone's working again.
Lee Pugsley
Oh, yeah. That reminds me when Jimmy Kimmel brought up all of the crew. That was really cool. Oh, yeah. And how he mentioned, "If IATSE goes on strike, we stand in solidarity with them." And that made me really happy to know that they're getting that support.
Alex Howard
Yes, definitely.
Lee Pugsley
And then one last thing say is I actually really enjoyed the fact that they started the Oscars an hour earlier. So when the ceremony is done, it was only 7:30, and it's like, "Oh, I still have a little bit of my evening left now."
Alex Howard
I really appreciated that, too.
Lee Pugsley
So hopefully, they'll continue starting it at 4:00 PM instead of 5:00 PM. That's Pacific time. And that makes it easier for everyone on other coasts as well.
Alex Howard
Yeah. One last thought about the "I'm Just Ken" performance. I loved that Ryan Gosling brought in Greta Gerwig and put the mic up to her to sing that lyrics because they made a joke at the Oscars. People said she was snubbed from best director, so I'm glad she got her little moment in the spotlight.
Lee Pugsley
It was so great. I loved that moment. I mean, that whole song, once again, I could rewatch that song over and over, that particular performance, specifically. And that wraps up our thoughts on the 2024 Oscar ceremony and winners. Now, let's go ahead and shift over to another big cultural event that's happening which is Dune Part Two, the long-awaited sequel to Dune Part One, which was supposed to come out last November and got pushed back until this year in 2024. So I'll just throw it over to you first, Alex. What is your take on this movie? General thoughts about your enjoyment of it and aspects of the filmmaking that you appreciated.
Alex Howard
So I really like the first Dune. I love Denis Villeneuve as a director. I mean, Arrival and Prisoners and Blade Runner 2049. He's one of my favorite modern directors. So I really did like the first one. You could tell it was the first part to something bigger. And I haven't read the book like you did, but I was very curious to see where the story was going to go. And I really, really love Dune part 2. I went in with very high expectations, but they were a little tempered because I think I didn't love the first one as much as everyone else. So I was like, "Okay, let's just see where things go." But I really, really love the second one. I mean, first of all, it's gorgeous looking. I love Denis' style of making... Yes, it's in the future. The technology and sci-fi of it all just seems so smooth and realistic. But at the same time, he can have the desert sun, these gorgeous, gorgeous shots in the movie. I love the black and white sequence on the Harkonnen's planet. It was really great. When I saw it, I really got into all the lore of everything, and I watched YouTube videos and did deep dives on the story and all of that. And I thought the story itself, as old as the book is, it was not stereotypical. I thought it was going to be a stereotypical hero's journey, and it was not. I was very happy about that because I was like, "Oh, it's written in the '60s, and it's going to be things that we've seen before," and yet they managed to make it different and unpredictable. That's what I appreciated about it most.
Lee Pugsley
I share a lot of your same sentiments, and before I share my thoughts on Dune part 2. We just want to let the listeners know that there will be a spoiler section coming in just a few minutes, but we will make sure that you have a warning about the spoiler section. If you haven't watched this movie, then you can just fast forward a few minutes and experience the movie fresh for your first time. I do agree with everything you were saying. I think that for being a story that was written in the '60s, there's a lot of relevant themes that are still at play today within the story, and it holds up really well. It doesn't feel like this archaic story that's ancient, but it feels like this story could have been written yesterday and then adapted into a film within a year or two. That is a testament to Frank Herbert's writing and just to the incredible world building that he did. And then Denis Villeneuve took what Frank Herbert wrote and really gave us such an immersive experience with both Dune movies. But Dune Part Two even heightens what was set up in Dune Part One. I think that the stakes are raised and the sense of urgency is felt even more in this installment. The cinematography is a breathtaking on virtually every level. The sound is immersive, and even within the theater that I was watching it in at the IMAX Theater in Burbank, it was shaking the theater. You could feel the vibrations of the sound in certain high-intensity scenes. The editing is flawless, and the score by Hans Zimmer is so unique and so compelling, and it peaks at just the right moments to add a sense of thrill and excitement to the action that's playing out on screen. I also felt like this movie was more evenly paced than Dune Part One. Now, to be clear, I didn't have a problem with the pacing of Dune Part One, but I know for a lot of people, it was a little slow. I think that the pacing has balanced much better here where you sit with characters for maybe 10 to 15 minutes, and then there's an action sequence. Then you go back into some of the slower character moments, but then there's another action sequence. I think that the action balanced out with the character exploration was pretty well done. Maybe not perfect, but definitely a little more engaging for a lot of audiences, I'm sure.
Alex Howard
Yeah. I mean, you start off with that action scene, which is one of my favorite action scenes in the movie, very, very beginning. But I do think it lies a little bit in the middle in terms of action-wise, which is fine because the story is so very compelling, but I do think the middle of it is a little slow, just a little bit. But to me, it's still a four and a half star movie. This is a masterpiece of filmmaking. I don't like to throw that word around a lot, but it's gorgeous.
Lee Pugsley
Absolutely. Another thing that I really appreciate about this film is that the visual effects, which I'm sure are computer generated in a fair amount of ways, it doesn't look computer generated, at least from the visual standpoint that I have. Obviously, there is a level of vision that I'm missing, so maybe I'm just out of whack here, and other people watch this movie and say, "Oh, these are very clearly CGI effects." But to me, the world building and the effects in this movie look like practical effects for the most part. If someone told me that these were all practical effects, I would believe them.
Alex Howard
What did you think of the audio description for the movie?
Lee Pugsley
I thought the audio description was great. I mean, there's a lot of crazy names and a lot of characters to keep track of, and there's a lot of action happening throughout the whole movie. I think that the audio description was detailed and descriptive enough to cue me into what's going on without being overwritten.
Alex Howard
I agree, especially it lets it breathe with the music, too. I noticed-- We've both seen it twice. In seeing it again last night, there's like a... I don't know if you would call it a love theme. It's either a Chani theme or a love theme for whenever she's on screen with Paul Atreides, there's this little music cue. And the audio description did a great job of talking and then just letting us hear that. It was really great. And I really love the audio description for the... There's a final fight at the end that's really intense. And I thought they did a great job describing that because you were on the edge of your seat like, "Oh, my God, what's going to happen?" It's telling you every blow, everything that's happening in the fight really, really well.
Lee Pugsley
It also leaves room where you can hear the grunts or the reactions that each character is having during that fight. It could have been easy to just keep talking and talking and talking, but it does give you a little bit of space so you can actually hear the sound because there's no music during that part, if I remember correctly. You're just hearing the reactions of these characters to getting hit or punched or any of the other things that are happening during that fight.
Alex Howard
I also really love how they describe the relationships of people to remind you, they'll say, "Oh, his mother" or "His grandfather," or whatever the description is. They'll give a different one instead of just saying the character name to remind you what the relationship between the characters are.
Lee Pugsley
It's extremely helpful in that way to keep track of all the different story lines and who's who. That's one way that audio description, when done well, can really enhance a movie-going experience, not only for just blind and low vision viewers, but for anyone who might have a hard time keeping track of a lot of characters. And then speaking of the characters, I thought that the performances were really solid. I think that Timothée Chalamet has a really good arc as Paul. And we all know that he can do the brooding boyish thing really well. But when he arcs and becomes a little more assertive towards the end, I think that he really arced well, and it was very believable to me. Zendaya is really solid. Austin Butler is creepy, and I wasn't thinking of Elvis the whole time.
Alex Howard
Oh, Austin Butler was so, so good. I was so afraid because he could not shake that Elvis voice in the interviews and everything. Then he started talking, and that sounds like, "Oh, wow, he is way different."
Lee Pugsley
I think that Rebecca Ferguson as Lady Jessica did a fantastic job as well. Her character takes an interesting turn, which we can talk about in a moment. Javier Bardem was great as well. I think he was a really good breath of fresh air and comic relief. I will say it was a little hard to understand him with the dialect a fair amount of the time, but I still appreciated what he brought to the table.
Alex Howard
What do you think of Christopher Walken?
Lee Pugsley
Christopher Walken, for the most part, worked for me. I feel like he's such distinct person and personality that there were moments that took me out of it and made me realize I was watching Christopher Walken. But as a whole, I thought that he did a very good job. What about you?
Alex Howard
Yeah, he didn't shake the Christopher Walken-isms that he has, but it's fine. I mean, he's an icon, so I don't think you would want it without that, I guess, anyway. But I'm always very impressed when actors can shake those manners that they have in every performance. Robert Downey, Jr. did that in Oppenheimer. Kristen Stewart did that in Spencer. Just the natural things that they have, we can tell it's them. When those can go away, it's especially impressive.
Lee Pugsley
I agreed. And Florence Pugh, while she had a small part, she made the most of it, and she stood out to me as well.
Alex Howard
Yeah, definitely.
Lee Pugsley
Okay, so now we are going to go ahead and dive into our spoiler section of our Dune Part 2 review. If you are listening and you haven't seen Dune Part 2 and don't want to hear about any potential spoilers, then we recommend that you fast forward a few minutes in this podcast and come back and join us for the end.
Alex Howard
You think if they read the book, they should be fine?
Lee Pugsley
If you've read the book, I don't think you need to worry too much about spoilers because you know the general story and you know what's happening and where it's headed. There are obviously differences between the book and the movie. If you don't want to know those differences because you haven't seen Dune Part 2, then maybe you should also skip ahead a few minutes. But yeah, let's just go ahead and dive right in. Alex, any thoughts on your end that are more specific now?
Alex Howard
It wasn't quite an Empire Strikes Back moment, but when they said Paul Atreides was a Harkonnen, I was like, "What?!" That really threw me for a loop, and I was going through it a little bit. It was almost like an "I Am Your Father" moment for me, which, I mean, growing up, I knew that that wasn't a twist for me in Star Wars, obviously, because it was so old. But I love these stories when the character isn't good. I love that you get so attached to Paul Atreides, and he's portrayed as this hero figure. Then by the end, you have a bad taste in your mouth about him, and you're like, "Wait, he's isn't, kinda a good guy?" There's a very gray area with, "Is he doing the right thing?" I love that it wasn't your definitive, "He won, and we're cheering for him, and that's it." It's like, "No." You're like, "Should I be cheering for him?" In life, it's not black and white, which a lot of movies do that. It's very gray. I really love that the story didn't go the Messiah route, like Matrix does. A lot of these other movies, when there's a prophecy, Harry Potter, they're the best thing ever, and they fulfill the prophecy, and that's it. It's like, "Oh, no, he fulfilled the prophecy." But now we're like, "Oh, shit. Should he have done that?"
Lee Pugsley
It does make it very interesting when you have these characters that are taking turns like this. And yeah. Questioning morally and ethically, "Is what they're doing right?" And seeing them get consumed with power that they never really wanted to begin with. I think another interesting component of Paul's arc is just the fact that in some ways, he's almost put in the position of being this Messiah-like figure when he doesn't want to be. Then it's like, how much do other people around him contribute to him being who he is becoming now in doing things that are arguably not great things? You can make the argument maybe that it's not entirely his fault that he's going this direction. But once again, he also is responsible for his own choices as well. I think that dichotomy makes his character journey really fascinating, and there's so much to impact within that.
Alex Howard
Yeah, I was very much watching the second time I went through. I was like, "Is there a point where he... I can blame him?" And there really wasn't. I don't know. It's very hard to tell because he's mad at his mom at one point for telling everyone he's the Messiah. Then at one point, they're talking about, "Oh, we need to convince them that you are." So like I said, it's a very gray area. But like they said, the Holy War started. There's going to be a genocide. I'm very, very excited for Dune Part Three. I really hope... I mean, I think I'm just a dark person. I really hope he goes full villain. I don't know that he will because then that's also becoming more black and white. I really like this, this, "He's good, but he's not good." It's like he's a little bit of both because that's how everyone is in real life. I'm really, really curious to see where things are going to go. I know you said you're going to read Dune Messiah before the next one. I don't know that I'm going to because I know there are changes that he made to Dune. I would have to read the first one and then read the third one, and it's so much.
Lee Pugsley
Yeah. If you're going to read Dune Messiah, I would recommend that you read the first Dune. I know that you started it, but I would recommend that you finish the first Dune book before you go into Dune Messiah.
Alex Howard
How do you think this compared to the book? Did you... I mean, you went in knowing what was going to happen, but do you feel like...? From what I heard, the first book kind of... Doesn't make him look as bad as he does in the movie. And then Frank Herbert came out with Messiah to be like, "Hey, this is a false prophet story. He's not supposed to be the hero." And that's more of a thing in Messiah. But how did the movie compare to the book in your mind, the first book?
Lee Pugsley
There are some very major changes from the book to the movie, but I was able to accept them because I understand that for a film adaptation, some things are going to be more interesting in a different way. For example, in the book, first of all, Paul and Chani have a child, and then Paul basically takes Chani as a concubine. And Chani's not as doubtful or against what Paul is doing. She's more willing to go with him on his journey and to be in agreement with what he's doing. Giving Chani more of a mind of her own in the movie and having those doubts and those moments of disapproval, I think, flushes out their relationship more and makes it a little more human and relatable, even though the situations that they're in are very heightened. I think that it was a really good change to go that direction. Another big change is Alia, the baby in Lady Jessica's womb in the movie, is actually born in the book. She's like this little toddler that has the mind and sophistication of an adult, and she knows just as much as Lady Jessica. For a movie, it made more sense for Jessica and even Paul to be able to have that connection with Alia, the baby in the womb. I think it would have been a little too jarring and weird if you had this little three or four, five-year-old girl that was talking like an adult for the movie. Plus, you'd really need a really, really good child actress, but I think that they adapted that part really well, too. Those were the things that stuck out to me the most about book versus movie. I will say, I don't remember if Jessica becomes as almost villainous in the book as she does in the movie, but when Lady Jessica drinks the water of life in the movie, she definitely becomes way more sinister.
Alex Howard
Oh, definitely. I feel like that's when she started scheming like, "Oh, I need to plant the seed in the elders," I guess, of the-- Fremen?
Lee Pugsley
Yeah.
Alex Howard
I mean was excited for this movie, too, but you were over the moon excited for this movie, having read the book and knowing where it was going. Did it live up expectations upon first viewing?
Lee Pugsley
It did live up to my expectations on first viewing. I mean, the only things that I will say that maybe I wanted more of, and this is really weird for me to say because I'm always complaining about how movies are too long, is that I wouldn't have minded another half hour in this movie, especially with the final battle. I think that that was a little underwhelming, and I think that they could have developed that and made that more of an epic battle like they have in Lord of the Rings. Also, I realized that you don't really see Paul fighting very much. You see him fighting at the end, but thinking through the whole movie, he really doesn't fight that much compared to everyone else around him. I think that I wouldn't have minded seeing him do a little more active engagement in these battles.
Alex Howard
Did you find more in the book?
Lee Pugsley
I don't recall off the top of my head. I want to say yes, but I have to go back and skim through certain parts of the book to fully confirm that.
Alex Howard
So real quick, my three favorite sequences in this movie. The opening sequence when they are hiding from the Harkonnen, and they go up on the rock, and then they start falling because they were getting shot by the Fremen, and they're almost falling on Paul Atreides and Jessica. It was so good. They were just falling out of the sky. I thought that was so scary, but also so gorgeous the way they just glide up the rock. I love the part when they first attack the mining ship and they have to stay under the leg because the helicopter is trying to shoot at them and the leg is moving. So they have to keep moving with the shadow to stay underneath. I thought all of that was so good and just so visually represented very well. And it could have been a very complicated and confusing sequence, and it so wasn't. It was so intense. And then obviously, the final fight at the end with Paul Atreides and Austin Butler's character was so, so intense. Not knowing where it was going to go and knowing it was such highly regarded source material, I was like, "Wait, are they going to kill him right now?" I really thought they were going to kill Paul Atreides for a couple of minutes there.
Lee Pugsley
Those are all really good sequences. I mean, they're, once again, state-of-the-art, masterclass filmmaking, and all of those sequences. Yeah, I think that I would agree with you on the opening sequence when they're sliding up the rocks, and that was such a good sequence. My second favorite sequence is, well, I don't know if these are necessarily in order, when Paul has to learn how to ride the sand worm. Just the scope of that moment is so grandiose. The cinematography, just all that sand around the Hans Zimmer score in the way that's integrated, and just the intensity of that moment is so good. And such a theatrical moment that can only be experienced to the fullest effect in a theater on the biggest screen possible. Then I do agree that the final battle between Paul and Feyd-Rautha with hand-to-hand combat was just so fast and so well done that it kept you on the edge of your seat to the very end. Then I will say, even after that, one of those things that sticks out to me is when Paul's talking to the Emperor and the Princess and just those different negotiations and everything. I just think that's a really interesting sequence and very well done and compelling.
Alex Howard
I was so shocked at where the story went and so satisfied with it. I love this franchise so much more now for making it what it is. I love these Breaking Bad-ish stories, I guess you could say.
Lee Pugsley
It is very much up your alley in the things that you I do like. I can't comment on Dune Messiah because I haven't read that, but I feel like there's going to be a lot of crazy things to come. Before we wrap up our Dune section, I'm curious to know, what is the Oscar potential for Dune part 2? As in, what do you think it could get nominated for next year?
Alex Howard
I do think it'll be nominated for picture, director. Don't know about very many acting categories. Maybe Austin Butler, maybe Timothée Chalamet, but I know for lead actor, they usually go with more, I don't want to say artsy, but you know what I mean, the smaller movies. I could see Austin Butler getting a supporting nomination. All the crafts categories, for sure. Cinematography, score. It's going to get so many nominations, I think. But what will be interesting, I think, is Furiosa, which won all the crafts categories the year Mad Max: Fury Road came out. It's also from WB. It's also coming out this year, where the first Dune won all the crafts categories when it nominated. So I think those two are going to be going head to head for the crafts stuff, the visual effects, all of that. They're going to be battling for that. And we don't even know what else is coming out in terms of like, a year ago, we didn't know about Poor Things. So I think next year's Oscars is going to be really interesting, considering we have a major, major player that's already come out.
Lee Pugsley
It will be a tight race, I think. And Christopher Nolan can thank Denis Villeneuve for pushing Dune back so that Oppenheimer can have its full glory this year. If I had to call nominations for Dune part 2, then I would say best director, best picture, best sound, best score, best visual effects, best costumes, best hair and makeup, best production design, best film editing, best cinematography. I think it will easily get between 10 to 12 nominations.
Alex Howard
One more quick question for you, more about eyesight stuff with Dune. So I saw it in Dolby first, and then I went and saw it in IMAX last night. And I wanted to see an IMAX so I could really... There were visuals I missed in Dolby that I heard described, and I wanted to see them. One of them was Anya Taylor-Joy, which I saw that in IMAX. But then there are still moments of the sand worm, especially. When you can see the worm approaching, there's the sand coming up, apparently. A lot of times when that was happening, they would describe it, and I couldn't see what they were talking about. And then, when he was writing the worm, that was almost like the Batmobile for me. I could not see that sequence that well, the worm itself that well. I could see Paul Atreides and all of that. But the worm design is so fascinating to me. There are moments where I had to imagine the things it was telling me, and I want to actually pause it so I can see visually what it looked like.
Lee Pugsley
I can relate to that. Even with how wide of a scope and how immersive the desert stuff is in this movie, it also blends everything together because the color looks very similar. With my vision, there definitely were multiple times where everything just blended together. I could see general movement of certain things, but I definitely missed out on a lot of details in multiple different parts. I will be curious to rewatch this movie on a big screen, hopefully with a 4K capture, to see if that brings a little bit more visually to the page for me.
Alex Howard
Yeah, I really love the... It's kinda like romantic, too. There are parts in the movie where it's like, you got the feels of the romantic vibe between Paul and Chani. That was really cool.
Lee Pugsley
Yeah, Timothée Chalmet and Zendaya had a really good chemistry in this movie, and I think that's why the end of the movie feels maybe a little more heartbreaking, too.
Alex Howard
Yeah, definitely.
Lee Pugsley
Well, this has been a really good Dune discussion, and thank you all so much for joining us today. If you have thoughts on Dune part 2, or you have any questions about how we experience that movie--
Alex Howard
Or the Oscars.
Lee Pugsley
Or the Oscars, yeah. Please go ahead and email us at DarkRoomFilmCast@gmail.com. Once again, that's DarkRoomFilmCast@gmail.com. We are here to answer any of your questions, hear any of your comments. Bottom line, we just love to hear from you.
Alex Howard
You can also DM us on @DarkRoomFilmCast on Instagram, and give us a follow on there, too. That'd be great.
Lee Pugsley
And as always, we want to give recognition to Matt Lauterbach and All Senses Go for making transcripts of this episode possible, as well as past episodes, too.
Alex Howard
And thank you guys so much for listening. I know this was a little bit of an unusual episode, I guess you could say, just Oscars and Dune combined, but we have a lot of fun stuff planned for the future, so we hope to see you guys next time.
Lee Pugsley
Yeah. Once again, thanks, guys.