Ep. 42: The 2025 Blind Film Festival Experience

Alex and Lee discuss their 2025 experiences at the Sundance and Slamdance film festivals, including a recap of the movies they saw there. They also chat about the aspects of film festivals they appreciate in terms of accessibility, as well as identifying areas of continued growth they would like to see.

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Transcript

Lee Pugsley
What's up, film lovers. Welcome back to another episode of The Dark Room, where two blind cinephiles illuminate the sighted. I'm Lee Pugsley.

Alex Howard
I'm Alex Howard.

Lee Pugsley
And this is a podcast hosted by two legally blind guys for film lovers of all abilities. So today, Alex and I just wanted to touch on our experiences being at film festivals. I know that in the past, Alex has shared his movie slate at some of the film festivals he's been to. And this year, I had the opportunity to attend the Slamdance Film Festival. And then in the past year, I've also been able to attend some other festivals. So we thought it would be fun to share our experiences at the festivals that we've been to this year. Once again, I did Slamdance, Alex did Sundance. And then also we wanted to touch on the things that we really appreciated about different film festivals we've been at in terms of accessibility and how to navigate the festivals, being blind, low vision. Then we also wanted to touch on potential areas for growth and things that we'd like to see for film festival landscapes as we move forward in terms of accessibility. We will go ahead and kick it off with our experiences at the respective film festivals. One of the things that's really special about film festivals is you have this gathering of a community of film lovers and film creators, and it's a very bonding experience. It's really cool to be able to be at a film festival and support one another's work, to get to meet new people, and to bond over those movies that you really connect to that really resonate with an audience as a whole. There's just something really special about that. Yeah, Alex, what are your thoughts in general on the joy of being at a film festival?

Alex Howard
I love being at film festivals. I think it's a really unique place to be. Everyone's a film fan. Everyone's just as into it as I am. I know when you and I go to the movies, there's a certain crowd that's into it, I think, especially in Burbank, cheering for Nicole Kidman. But it's not... I wouldn't say it's the majority of people there. And so I think film festivals are definitely different. You can pretty much ask anyone on the street when a film festival is going on, what they've seen, how things are going, and have an in-depth conversation about films. It's a really unique experience.

Lee Pugsley
Definitely. And it's also a really unique experience in the sense that you oftentimes will get to see world premieres of films that have never been screened anywhere else, or if they have, it's been in a very, very limited capacity. So you feel like you're still one of the first audiences, if not the first audience, to see a new film that's coming out, some of which have distribution and some of which are looking for distribution as well.

Alex Howard
When I'm not at a film festival, I'm still keeping up with the film festival news. So it's always great to actually be there and reading about something there and you're like, "Oh, I went to that." But yeah, when I'm not there, like at Cannes or something like that, I'm definitely still keeping up with it so that then I can keep an eye on when films come out for wide release.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I follow the same news, and it is helpful to know what to anticipate. And also, if there's buzz about a certain film, it's exciting to be able to be one of the people that's seen it. But also, if you're waiting for a theatrical release, it's exciting to know that there's a lot of momentum riding on this film, and that just creates a deeper desire for me to want to check out those films. With that in mind, this year, I had the opportunity to attend the Slamdance Film Festival. For those of you who may not be familiar with Slamdance, I'll just go ahead and give you a little bit of context. Slamdance was a film festival created for independent filmmakers, actually in response to the Sundance Film Festival, because they felt like Sundance was becoming a little more commercial. Slamdance actually took place at the same time as Sundance for many years, just right across the street from one another. You had these two competing film festivals. And each film festival, Sundance and Slamdance, has a very different vibe, and there's something very unique and special about both of those festivals. This year was the first year that Slamdance moved from Park City, Utah, to Los Angeles.

And I was very fortunate to have my film, Audio Description, in the festival this year. So I was able to go as a filmmaker. And it was a really good experience. What I really appreciated about the festival as a whole is that the programmers and staff were very accessible and approachable. If you had any questions, you always knew that there was going to be someone around to ask about any programming information about where to go. That was very helpful. And then just being able to connect with a bunch of different independent filmmakers who were doing some really good work. I was able to see a few films there, which we'll talk about in a minute. The other thing with film festivals, that's always really tricky, though, is there's always so many different things going on. You have networking events, you have panels, and you have the films. And so it's a matter of deciding "What event do I want to go to? And if I go to this event, then I'm going to have to miss out on something else." 

With Slamdance, specifically, though, something that really stands out is their focus on disability representation. They actually have a whole block of films called Slamdance Unstoppable, which showcases stories about disability. I think that's a really special thing because this isn't something that you see in every film festival. I really appreciate their commitment to furthering disability representation. So within the Unstoppable block, the films that I was able to see were mainly short films. There were two blocks of short films. One of the films that stuck out to me in the Unstoppable block was a film Iron Lung, which is about a woman dealing with polio, and she's in the middle of a storm, and her breathing machine is basically disconnected. It loses power, and just her struggle to survive. I thought that was really gripping and really well done. Another film that I really liked out of the Unstoppable block was called Noggin. It's an animated film about an individual dealing with mental disability and just all the thoughts and anxieties that are circulating in their head, and it was really creatively done. 

And one of the feature films that stood out to me in the Unstoppable Block was called Racewalkers. It's basically your inspirational sports drama that has a really fun and comedic vibe to it. I didn't even know that race walking is an Olympic sport. And basically what it is, is just people that aren't running, but they're not walking slowly. They're just walking at a very rapid pace. And so this brought light to a sport that I didn't know anything about, but it was also done in a very fun way and featured disability representation. It was such a fun movie to watch with an entire crowd of people, sharing the laughs together and cheering for different moments. Really well done. I would hope that this film gets distribution and that we will be able to see it somewhere in the future so that it could get a more widespread audience. And then on the other slate of films that was at Slamdance this year were a lot of documentaries and a lot of really great documentaries as well. So some of the ones that stuck out to me that I was able to see was this documentary called Stolen Kingdom, which I absolutely loved. It's about this underground culture of people that go into Disney World and steal different artifacts. And this film chronicles the journeys of a few different Disney World enthusiasts, for lack of a better term, that went into Disney World and just stole different props and costumes and set pieces from the rides, including an animatronic character, which I thought was really humorous, also really impressive that they were able to pull that off. But the personalities of the people that you meet in this documentary are just super quirky and ridiculous. It's almost hard to believe that this is actually something that happened. Once again, this was a film that was a pure delight to watch with an audience. Everyone was really engaged and reacting very strongly. I would love for this film to get wide distribution. I think that it would hit really well with a lot of different audiences. It's just a really light and fun watch, but also brings an interesting aspect to a world that I didn't even know existed in terms of the black market underground Disney World culture.

Alex Howard
Did they say at all if there was any legal issues with releasing the movie from Disney? I know there was the movie, what was it called? Not Edge of Tomorrow. Something Tomorrow from 2012 that they shot secretly at Disneyland, that they were going to have trouble releasing legally. Was there anything like that that they said they were having trouble with distribution for that movie?

Lee Pugsley
They didn't really touch on distribution for that movie and any the legalities of it. So I'm not really sure what that process is like. I can only imagine, though, that there are probably hurdles that they're going to have to navigate to get it into wider distribution.

Alex Howard
Yeah. I'm really curious to see that movie, so I hope, I hope it gets distribution as well.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I think that you would really like it. And then another movie that I was able to see, once again, a documentary, was called American Theater. And this, once again, was a very fun watch for me being a theater person. It's about a canceled theater director in Georgia who gathers a troupe of conservative actors together to get revenge on the Georgia theater community by putting up a musical about the Salem witch trials. The whole documentary chronicles the process of putting this theatrical piece together. But you also meet very unique personalities along the way, very memorable personalities. There were just so many antics and crazy things that happen along the way that while I've never experienced those moments in the exaggerated ways that they played out in this documentary, I've definitely experienced some hijinks in my own theatrical career as well. I really I enjoyed this movie, and I think that with theater people, especially, this is really going to hit home for them. And then the last documentary that I was able to see was a film called Complicated, which I know you got to see as well, Alex. And since you have more of a personal connection with this story, I'll pass it on to you so you can share your thoughts.

Alex Howard
Yeah. So we both wanted to see Complicated. And funny enough, we didn't know each other was in the theater when we saw it. But I was sitting next to some of the subjects of the documentary. Complicated is about Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, which I actually have. And it's showing that a lot of doctors and a lot of other people in the medical community don't really know a lot about EDS, and so therefore, they misdiagnose them or they don't believe the family. They don't believe the kids when they're in pain. They don't believe the parents. They think it's Munchausen's, that they're making it up. And I have Ehlers-Danlos syndrome. I don't have it as severe as some of the kids in the documentary, but I was definitely curious when I heard that the documentary was about this because a lot of people, a lot of doctors I go to, they don't know what it is. They actually call Ehlers-Danlos patients "zebras" because they say, "If you hear hooves behind you, you expect to see a horse," and the doctors need to look for a zebra, not a horse, when they're diagnosing Ehlers-Danlos. And so it was really cool and actually pretty heartbreaking to see some of the results of the documentary. I think some of the kids got separated from their parents because they thought the parents were unfit and all these other things that happened in the documentary. So it was really eye-opening.

Lee Pugsley
It was definitely very enlightening and frustrating, too, just with these misdiagnoses and doctors ignoring certain health components that should have been given more attention. I am really glad that this documentary exists now, and I hope that it can start spreading more awareness and stimulating more conversations about any kind of reforms in the medical world in relation to this disease. But definitely very powerful and very impactful.

Alex Howard
Yeah, I definitely recommend it for people who are interested in EDS or even medical documentaries. It's really fascinating. And it was interesting to sit next to... I was sitting next to some of the parents of the kids with EDS in the documentary. So hearing their reaction, some of them were watching the movie for the first time, it made it a little more personal, too.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, most definitely. It was very impactful to have those mothers there and to hear a little bit about their journey in real life besides just being on the screen.

Alex Howard
And then I know we also went to a panel at Slamdance. Do you want to talk a little bit about that?

Lee Pugsley
Yeah. So Alex and I got to attend this panel that was focused on disability inclusion, and it had some really great people in there, including Jim Lebrecht, who directed Cribs Camp, and Marissa Bode from Wicked, who played Nessarose, the sister in the wheelchair. And I really appreciated the fact that they even created this panel just to talk about disability representation, where it's going, what people would like to see, and also talking about on-set accessibility, which I think is also really important for creatives with disabilities, to make sure that sets are fully accessible. And I thought it was a really insightful dialogue to have. I definitely gleaned a lot of information from that.

Alex Howard
Yeah, and it was really great to meet. I know we talked to Jim Lebrecth, and we also got to talk to Marissa a little bit afterwards. That was really cool.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah. The other thing that's cool about Slamdance is not only did they have this panel on disability representation, but they had another panel a few days later that also focused on disability representation and disabled creatives in the workspace. And that one was hosted by Peter Farreley, who directed movies like Green Book and Dumb & Dumber. So kudos to Slamdance for putting disability at the forefront. I think that they are a really good model that other festivals can learn from, and hopefully, we'll see the focus on disability expanded in other film festivals as well. That basically sums up my Slamdance experience. Alex, I'll pass it over to you to see if you have any other thoughts on Slamdance, and then you can share a little bit about your experience at Sundance this year.

Alex Howard
Well, before we go to Sundance, do you want to talk how your screenings went for your movie?

Lee Pugsley
Oh, sure. My screenings went really well. Once again, I had my film, Audio Description in there, which won best film at the Easter Seals Disability Film Challenge last year in 2024. It was really fun to be able to watch this film with two pretty full audiences. We had two different screenings. It was really fun to see the reactions from the audience and also to talk to people afterwards about audio description. Some people weren't as familiar with audio description, so it really opened up a lot of nice conversations to spread awareness about accessibility in film. And I think that in general, with this focus on disability representation and telling authentic stories about disability, these are the conversations that it opens up, is giving people a fresh perspective on something that maybe they didn't know about, and also giving them new ways to think about the way that other people interact with life and interact with film. So that was probably the most impactful thing for me.

Alex Howard
No, that must have been amazing. I haven't had one of my own films at a festival, so that must have been really special.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah. And once again, I'm just glad that people can understand audio description because it's so important to us, and this is why we started this podcast to begin with. But it's nice that more filmmakers are starting to realize the importance of audio description and also wanting to start implementing it in their own work as well.

Alex Howard
Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

Lee Pugsley
Now I'll go ahead and throw the ball over to you, Alex, and you can share a little bit about your Sundance experience. Feel free to talk about the movies that you saw that really stuck out to you and any other aspects of your experience that were very rewarding this year.

Alex Howard
Yeah, so this year at Sundance, it was a little different for me. I was actually working at the festival this year as a volunteer. So I went in early for training. I was volunteering in the Accessibility Department where I was handling a lot of the customer accommodation requests for different screenings and working with the team to implement those requests as best as we could. So that was really cool to be on the other side of things and working with the Sundance staff, everyone is really, really nice. And being in that volunteer community was really cool. It's definitely a different vibe because you have the jacket that you get when you volunteer. And it's really a communal experience. I mean, being at the festival itself is a communal experience, but then when you're working there, too, there's this whole other side of it where you see someone in the green jacket and it's this instant connection. So that was really, really cool. 

The first film I saw was called Come See Me in the Good Light. It was a volunteer screening before the festival started. They usually do about one or two volunteer screenings, and we can't really talk about it until after it's premiered. But now that obviously it's premiered, I can talk about it. It was a great documentary, and it actually had audio description, even though it was before the festival had officially started. It's about a spoken word poet who has cancer, and her struggle with the disease, and it's actually surprisingly funny. It's really sad, too, and heartfelt, but she does a great job of making it humorous at times as well. This is definitely one of my favorite movies of the year. I think it's in my top 10 at this point, for sure. But definitely highly recommend this if you see it streaming or in theaters anywhere. It's called Come See Me in the Good Light, and it really hits home. 

The second movie I saw was called Bubble and Squeak, and this was the first one I saw officially at the festival. Usually, when you volunteer, you get a waitlist pass. You get to join the waitlist line for pretty much... I mean, it depends on your volunteer level. But for me, I got to join the waitlist line for any movie I wanted as long as I wasn't working during them. I went to Bubble and Squeak. This was the first movie I saw there, and it was at the Eccles Theater, which is the biggest venue at Sundance. Last year when I went, I only saw one at the Eccles. And this year I saw, I think, four or five, mostly because the Eccles was right next door to where I was working. So it was really easy to get over there. Bubble and Squeak had Dave Franco and Steven Yeun in it. It also had two other people who were rather newcomers, so I don't know their names off the top of my head. But it is a very quirky movie. It was one of the more out there movies, but it was a lot of fun. It's basically about this couple that goes on a honeymoon to a country that recently got out of a war, and they outlawed cabbages in the country. And so this couple, they were accused of sneaking cabbages into the country on their honeymoon. So the whole movie is them running from the authorities. It's really funny. You could almost say like Monty Python humor a little bit, but I had a lot of fun with it, especially watching it with a big audience at the Eccles. It was great. And they also installed Dolby Sound at the Eccles, so that was really cool. And then they had a Q&A with the cast and director and everything. They usually try and do that at The Eccles because it's the premiere venue at Sundance. So this was the premiere for this movie.

So then, funny enough, I went to an after-party for the movie Jimpa, which I didn't actually get to see at the festival, but I had a friend of a friend there who got into the after-party. So we went there and they were telling me that Olivia Coleman and John Lithgow, since it's their movie, they were at the after-party. And I was joking, I couldn't see them across the room, obviously, because I'm low vision, I would need to hear them. And then I was thinking, anyone at Sundance I see, I'm going to need to hear their voice to know that they're there, if they're famous or whatever it may be. And so since I watch a lot of movie coverage, there are certain pundits and reporters and things that I'm a big fan of. One of them is Scott Mantz. And so when I went to my next movie, Ballad of Wallis Island at the Eccles, I heard this voice next to me, and I looked up and I was like, "Wait, are you Scott?" He was like, "Yeah." I was like, "Oh, man, I'm a huge fan." It was so funny because it was literally a day after I was just saying, "I need to hear their voice." And I heard Scott Mantz's voice, and I was probably fanboying a little bit. I took a picture with him at the premiere for Ballad of Wallis Island. So I was sitting next to him, and I don't know if it was his friend or his girlfriend or his wife, but it was really cool to watch a movie with Scott, and we talked a little bit after as well. So that was awesome. He's a part of FYC, the awards show, and then he's also the entertainment reporter for KTLA in Los Angeles. So that was amazing to meet someone I really admire at Sundance. And Ballad of Wallis Island was another one of my favorite movies of the year so far. It's really, really funny. It's really heartwarming. Surprisingly, it's just one of those movies that makes you feel good, even though some of the subject matter might be hard. I don't know, it just leaves you with a really happy feeling. And I know Lee, you got to see Ballad of Wallis Island, didn't you?

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I recently saw that movie, and I agree. I think that it's a very strong movie on a lot of fronts. I think the way that it deals with grief and regret, and also has this nostalgic feeling to it, really hits very nicely. It's a very nice blend of all of those things. It has a really good balance of heart and humor, and also is really character-driven with some very distinct personalities and just interesting relational dynamics. So yeah, I really appreciate this movie. And as of now, it's in my top movies of the year. We'll see if it stays there. But either way, I vouch for this movie and would recommend that everyone sees it. I know that it got a theatrical release, and it didn't really seem to gain much traction. So if you haven't seen Ballad of Wallis Island yet, whenever you have a chance, whether it's on streaming or still in theaters, go check it out.

Alex Howard
Yeah, I would imagine it will be on Peacock rather soon because I know it's Focus features. That one also had audio description at the festival, which was great. And Carey Mulligan is in it as well. And the other two British guys, I know they've done a film previously, but I cannot remember the name of it. But I went for Carey Mulligan, and it was definitely worth it.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, the acting on all fronts of that movie from the main trio is very good all around.

Alex Howard
And then the next movie I saw was called Predators. So, this is not a horror movie, but it is about the TV show To Catch a Predator. It's a documentary. It's really, really good. It shows the negative and obviously positive side of To Catch a Predator, but there is a negative side of the show, which I found really, really interesting. The director was there for Q&A. It was really powerful because he was saying he got into the show because he was a victim of a child predator when he was younger. And so the fact that he was able to make the documentary but then also show the negative side of the show, I think, speaks a lot to his process of healing his wounds as a child and just coming at it from all perspectives. I thought that was really, really cool. So it's a very, very powerful documentary. I actually got to watch this one with my co-worker Sarah from Sundance. And it was totally unexpected that she was going to be there. So there's only two accessibility volunteers this past year. And so it was cool to spend some time with her outside the office and get to watch a movie with her.

The next one was called Sunfish (& Other Stories on Green Lake). This was interesting because it's an anthology movie. There's three different stories that all link together. They all take place on this lake. This one was interesting because it was actually a thesis film from USC for a senior thesis, and it got into Sundance as a movie. So that was really cool to see. They had Q&A with the director, and you could tell she was totally flattered to be there. Her student film got into a super prestigious festival. So that was really cool. And just the vibe on the movie, I think it was really unique. There aren't many movies with the vibe that that gave off. So it was really cool.

So the next movie I saw was called Life After. It's directed by Reid Davenport, who has cerebral palsy. It's a documentary about a woman who, I think it was in the '70s or '80s, she was trying to go to court to allow the court for her to get medical assistance to had because of all of her things going on medically. The film took a look at if that should be allowed and the moral implications of that, if the court were to allow that, what would happen nationwide, all that stuff. It really showed both sides of the whole debate. It was really, really interesting, especially to see Reid researching all of this. You could tell, since it's about disability, the film itself, it hits really close for him and really close to me as well. And watching it, there was a lot of other disabled patrons in the audience, too. So you could tell that the film meant a lot to all of us. So that was really cool to be there for that. And yeah, I definitely recommend that film to everyone, but especially if you're part of the disability community, I think it will hit you in a pretty powerful way.

The next film I saw was called Lurker. This one was interesting. It was also at the Eccles. I just picked one because I was like, "I'm not seeing anything tonight. Let's just go to something." This movie was about a guy who infiltrates the inner circle of a pop star, so he becomes part of his entourage. It gets creepier and creepier. I would say it's like a thriller, I guess you could say. It's really, really fun and really interesting. I'm definitely keeping an eye out. I'm curious to see it again when it comes out. I didn't get a chance to see this with audio description, so I do want to see it described at some point. But it was a really, really fun movie.

Then I saw the big movie. I didn't get into it the first time I tried to go, but I got into it the second time, Kiss of the Spider Woman, starring Jennifer Lopez, which I know Lee was really excited, is really I'm excited to see it when it comes out. I think it's coming out in May or June in wide release. I was not a huge fan of it. I have no connection to the source material, though. I know it's based on a play. I'm curious to see it again when it comes out. I guess I was a little underwhelmed by it. I don't know. I feel like the audio description didn't really talk a lot during the songs, which is great because I know I was complaining about it in Wicked, they talk during the songs, but then there's a lot of dancing and a lot of physical movement during the songs in Kiss of the Spider Woman. So it felt a little bit like there was something I needed more in that. Once again, I'm curious to see how it is when it comes out in wide release.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, and just to clarify, it's actually coming out in the fall now. Because initially, it was going to come out in the summer, but now it's coming out in the fall. I'm going to be really interested to see this movie, obviously because I'm a musical theater fan, but also because it is an interesting story and it works well on stage, but I do see some challenges in translating into a big screen adaptation. So I'll be very curious to see how smoothly that transitions over. But nonetheless, I'm excited, too.

Alex Howard
The last movie I saw was called Twinless. This was my favorite movie of the festival. It's in contention for my favorite movie of the year, so. It's between that and Sinners. I need to see Twinless again to really get a sense of where it stands in my ranking right now. But it is so, so good. I got to see it with audio description. It's about a twin support group. Pretty much you go there if your twin passes away. I don't really want to say any more than that. There are a lot of twists and turns in it, and it's just so, so good. It's humorous. It's emotional. It's definitely a dark comedy. It's amazing. I could not recommend this movie enough. I don't think it has a release date yet, which is really sad. But I am very anxious to see this movie again.

Lee Pugsley
I'm anxious to see this movie, too, because I know that you were raving about this movie when you first got back from Sundance, and I am eagerly anticipating it. And also on that note, too, all the movies that you mentioned are movies that I would be interested in. And when they do get wide distribution, I'll definitely check out the whole slate of films that you mentioned.

Alex Howard
Yeah. Sundance was a really great experience this year. One other funny experience I had from Sundance, when I was flying back in the airport, I asked these people to watch my stuff while I went to the bathroom, and someone was signing to the person I asked, and they were like, "Oh, yeah, we can watch that." And I came back and I was like, I feel like I recognize this person, but I don't know. And I was like, "Hey, were you guys at Sundance?" And they were like, "Yeah." And I was like, "Oh, are you guys filmmakers?" And it turned out to be Marley Matlin who was on my flight back from Salt Lake to Burbank. So that was really cool. I've heard about Marley Matlin a lot, obviously in the entertainment industry, Academy Award-winning actress, but I think in the disability community as well through Respectability. And then working in the Accessibility Office at Sundance, I had heard about... She had a documentary at the festival as well. So getting a chance to meet her in the airport. We talked for about 20 minutes before the flight, just about movies and sports and all that stuff, accessibility. So that was really, really cool to meet her in person.

Lee Pugsley
That is really cool. And that's the other thing about film festivals, whether you're traveling there, traveling back, or you're just at the festival, you never know who you're going to run into. Sometimes, obviously, it can be someone that has celebrity status, but other times, it can just be the filmmakers of tomorrow as well. And I think that's always a really exciting thing, is those personal connections that you make, whether in big or small ways. But that also is a good segue, Alex, into the idea of accessibility at film festivals. In terms of the things that you've appreciated about the film festivals you've been to that have made it more accessible for you. So for me, for example, I will say that some of the things that I've appreciated about the handful of film festivals I've been to now is the film festivals that do have audio description. I know that it's not as widespread as it could be right now, but if I see that film festivals are making efforts to put audio description on their films, and there's even a handful of films that have audio description, that's a win. Obviously, we want to push the ball forward still, but just the idea that they're paying attention to the accessibility needs that other people have, I think is a positive sign moving forward.

Then the other things that I've really appreciated about the film festival experiences I've had. Once again, going back to Slamdance, they had an accessibility coordinator on site, which I really, really appreciated. Everyone knew who this person was, and we knew how to get in contact with him if we needed anything. And he was always just around for any accessibility needs, whether it was someone in a wheelchair that needed help getting to a venue or someone like me that needed help with guidance and getting from point A to point B, or just any other accommodations that someone might have. I really appreciated the presence of an accessibility coordinator on site, and people knew who that person was. It wasn't an ambiguous thing. And then the third thing that I really appreciated about film festival experiences is the accessibility departments that each of the festivals have had. Some of them are smaller than others, but they always make it clear that they want to be accommodating, and there's always a contact of someone that you can reach out to to ask for accommodations.

For example, one of the festivals I went to, I told the festival coordinator that was dealing with accessibility that I was visually impaired. So you know, getting around was going to be very challenging for me. They actually were very kind and gave me a little bit of a transportation credit to help supplement those costs. So things like that, that I think are really nice, to have the accessibility access. And for anyone out there that's going to a film festival, it never hurts to ask for the accommodations that you need. Hopefully, the film festivals will be able to meet all of those accommodations, but worst case scenario, they're not able to meet them, and it never hurts to ask. Once again, we always talk about advocating for ourselves on this podcast. So advocate for yourself and don't feel like it's a burden or anything to ask for an accommodation. That's what those departments, that's what those people are there for. So take advantage of it. Alex, what are your thoughts on the things that you've appreciated about your film festival experiences in terms of accessibility and making it a joyful experience for you?

Alex Howard
I completely agree with everything you were saying. Obviously, I was in the Accessibility Department at Sundance, so that was a really, really great experience. I think even being out, because I implemented my own accommodations with the department when I was there. Seeing those in action, they have the accessible waiting area at Sundance, so you can request that. They have chairs set aside if you can't stand in line for a long time. So I utilized that in my time there. You can just tell any of the volunteers, "Oh, I need the accessible waiting area," after letting us know, and they'll take you over there. Whenever I saw someone in a green jacket, I was able to know I could ask for help. Even -- it was really helpful, after one movie, it was snowing, and obviously being from LA, I'm not used to the snow, and I don't get around very well in the snow. And so they helped me get an Uber and then walked me out to the Uber to make sure I found the car and all of that, make sure I didn't fall in the snow or any of that stuff. Getting around at Sundance, they helped a lot. There was one woman who helped me, I was taking bus back to the office at one point. I feel like just people at festivals are nice in general, even the festival goers. So it's one of the easier places to ask for help because I think everyone there, you know. You know everyone's a movie fan, so someone's helping you, it's really easy to make a conversation in that way, too.

Lee Pugsley
100%. Everyone is so kind there, both the staff and the filmgoers themselves. So once again, don't ever feel hesitant to ask anyone for assistance with anything, because more likely than not, they're going to be very kind and very receptive to your needs, and they will do their best to make sure that you feel comfortable and accommodated in what you're asking for. Now shifting over really quickly to just areas of growth in general for film festivals, areas that you'd like to see growth in. Curious to know what some of those things are for you, Alex. I guess I'll start that off for myself, and we're probably pretty closely aligned on this. I think the first one for me would be seeing audio description at more festivals. I know the big ones, like Sundance, has a fair amount, and even TIFF and some of those bigger festivals. But even some of the smaller festivals, not only with features, but with shorts as well, it would be really great if we could get audio description on some of those films, too. I know that's a lofty goal because each filmmaker submits their films independently and doesn't always have the budget for putting audio description on there.

But I wonder if there could be budgets within the film festivals themselves to get audio description on the films that are submitted and selected. Maybe those film festivals could hire an audio description company to do audio description on those films. I know that can also get pricey as well, but just thoughts to try to get audio description more widespread. I know that at a few film festivals, on occasion, there's an open audio description showing. And I think that maybe having an accessible screening of certain films, maybe the bigger ones or whatever, that have open captions and open audio description, I think that could be a really nice area of growth moving forward or something that would be really cool to see. And then even online, just making it very clear which films have audio description and which films do not, I think would be very helpful because sometimes you hear that a film might have audio description, but you're not sure if they actually do. So just making that more clear.

Then at the film festivals themselves, there's a lot of hustle and bustle, and it can be hard to know where one theater is versus another theater or where this panel is happening. I think that it could be helpful for people that are blind or low vision, and probably for other film festival attendees as well, to have bigger and brighter signs just pointing to, "This is where we go to get to this venue. This is where we go to get to this area." And just having maybe large print signs that are brightly colored so that we're able to identify those landmarks. Even on those signs, if they could have Braille on them, I think that would be really helpful as well. And the last thing that I would love to see is an accessibility coordinator at every film festival. Once again, I know that it's going to take a while for that to happen potentially, but just to have that person that's dedicated to accessibility and that everyone at the festival knows this is the person to go to if I have accessibility needs or accommodations. Those are the areas of growth that I identify in the film festival landscape as a whole. Yeah, what are your reflections on that?

Alex Howard
Yeah, I mean, I think I agree with a lot of what you were saying. I think there are some things in terms of getting more audio description, I think that's always a goal. There are a lot of factors that play into that that I don't want to go into, but it's definitely something that needs to happen at some point. I think in terms of signage, especially when I went to TIFF, they had arrows on the ground, which was really helpful. I think, yeah, making those different colors and bright and pointing people in the right direction. I think something like Sundance where it's so spread out, that's a little harder because you're not going to have a sign at the Eccles for where to go at the Egyptian. You can't really walk from the Eccles to the Egyptian. You have to take a shuttle. But if it's a festival like Slamdance or TIFF or something where you can walk everywhere, I think that's much more reasonable. But there is room for improvement, I think, in the general film festival landscape. There will always be room for improvement in terms of accessibility. And I think it's always good to hear from people if they have any other recommendations. I mean, the accessibility departments, they're there to help people. So if you need something to improve your festival experience, you should always reach out to the Accessibility Department.

Lee Pugsley
Totally agreed. And I do also want to applaud the efforts of film festivals in general, once again, in the whole film festival landscape, of making efforts to be more inclusive and more accessible. I know that it's not easy. I know there's a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes. There's a lot of moving parts here. So you know, identifying these areas of growth is one thing, but also understanding that it takes time to implement certain things and that nothing's ever going to be perfect. But once again, we keep these conversations moving forward for food for thought and hoping to see that growth happen. But once again, not negating the efforts that already have been made and the wonderful work that people at these film festivals are doing to make them as inclusive and accessible as possible. I do feel like now people at film festivals are listening to the voices and to what they want and what's going to be helpful for them to have a good film festival experience. So I really do appreciate that.

Alex Howard
Yeah, I completely agree, especially these bigger festivals like Sundance and TIFF. Slamdance, I would say, is a smaller festival that's really working hard on accessibility. I think being a small festival that's not as easy. Since the bigger festivals are on a bigger stage, it's obviously easier for them to do it. But I think the fact that Slamdance is making such an effort to keep up with that is really great.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah. And if you're part of a smaller festival out there and you're listening to this podcast, don't get discouraged. Just know that there is still a way to make things accessible. It might require a few extra hurdles to jump through, but it is possible. So, just keep moving the ball forward in the best way that you can and understanding that some festivals do have more resources than others, but there is still a pathway forward.

Alex Howard
It's all a learning experience as well. I think if you have certain needs and maybe they don't get met this year, I think educating the staff and letting the staff know that what you need, it will only improve things for the coming years.

Lee Pugsley
Exactly. And we always talk about this on the podcast, too, that it's about starting those conversations, but also making sure that people have the grace to learn, because sometimes there is the understanding gap. And so I think that people on all sides just have to be very gracious with one another, but continue to dialog about the things that are needed as well. And with that in mind, I think this is a good place to wrap up. So thank you all so much for listening to this episode, and hopefully you found some of this insightful. If you have any questions for me and Alex on anything that we've talked about today, you can feel free to email us at DarkRoomFilmCast@gmail.com. Once again, that's DarkRoomFilmCast@gmail.com. And be sure to follow us on Instagram and YouTube @DarkRoomFilmCast.

Alex Howard
Yes, and please email us with any thoughts that you have on festivals. If you have any festival stories that you have, we would love to hear them. And you can also follow me on Letterboxd. I think my Letterboxd username is Alex Howard 215. I did a lot of reviews on the movies I saw at Sundance and throughout the year on there. So you can follow me on there.

Lee Pugsley
And we'd also like to thank Matt Lauterbach and All Senses Go for making transcripts of this episode and all previous episodes possible, and to BlindCAN for sponsoring our editing of this episode as well. So thank you guys so much, and we'll see you next time on The Dark Room.

Alex Howard
Take care, guys.