Ep. 51: Close-up with Serina Gilbert, Blind AD Quality Control Specialist

Lee and Alex sit down with Serina Gilbert, a blind AD Quality Control Specialist, mom, content creator, and AD advocate. 

Serina Gilbert on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@blindygirlofficial

AD Discussion Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioDescriptionDiscussion 

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Check out the Audio Description Project here:
https://adp.acb.org 

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https://www.blindcan.com

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Transcript

Lee Pugsley
What's up, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of The Dark Room, where two blind cinephiles illuminate the sighted. I'm Lee Pugsley.

Alex Howard
I'm Alex Howard.

Lee Pugsley
And this is a podcast hosted by two legally blind guys for film lovers of all abilities. And today, seeing as it is the month of October, it is National Disability Employment Awareness Month. And we wanted to celebrate this month by having a very special guest on our podcast today. So please welcome Serina Gilbert, who is a blind audio description quality control specialist, who has worked on such shows as The Last Of Us Part Two. Welcome, Serina.

Serina Gilbert
Hi, thanks for having me. I'm super excited.

Lee Pugsley
I know that me and Alex have seen your name floating around, and Alex has had some correspondence with you, but it's so nice to actually put a name and a face together and to sit down and chat with you today.

Serina Gilbert
I am very excited. I can't wait to get into it.

Alex Howard
Yeah, I know you are in charge of the Audio Description Discussion Facebook group, which is how you and I met. And so why don't we start, Serina, with what is your blind journey?

Serina Gilbert
Yeah. I have retinitis pigmentosa. I got diagnosed with that, I think eighth grade. You know. (sarcastically) Perfect time to be diagnosed with an eye condition. I've always had vision problems ever since I was even just two years old. That was just when a name was put to it. And all through middle school, high school, I pretended I wasn't blind. I still had an IEP and all that fun stuff, but I didn't like to take advantage of my accommodations, which is really common amongst teens. In high school, I started using my accommodations and learned how to use JAWS, Screen Reader, and the white cane, and all that fun stuff. After college, I decided I wanted to work in vocational rehabilitation because I just really enjoyed the services that I received as a recipient of services. And I went and got my master's degree in rehabilitation counseling. And then that allowed me to work with young adults that have all kinds of disabilities to help them find work and eventually advance to management within the agency that I work in. I'm also a mom and a wife, and a self-proclaimed audio description snob.

Lee Pugsley
That's wonderful. And I look forward to hearing more about the self-proclaimed audio description snob. That's going to be a really fun part to dive into. But before we get there, tell us a little bit about what you do in your day job and what interactions you have with the blind and low vision community there.

Serina Gilbert
Yeah. So my current role is a program manager under Youth Services and Transitions Unit. And in Colorado, we have a combined agency, which means that we serve both blind and low vision individuals, as well as individuals that have other types of disabilities. In some states, there's two different agencies that serve, so maybe a Commission for the Blind. In Colorado, we are a combined agency. So, what I do on my day-to-day job is help to develop and support programs that will help any young adult with a disability be able to get employment. Helping them when they're even as young as 15. Starting to explore work and learn what that might look like, learn that work is possible regardless of the type of disability that you have, that it's always an option to explore, and help build that capacity to serve all of the thousands of students that we have across Colorado, including those that are blind and low vision, so that they can thrive and have employment and not end up playing video games in their mom's basement.

Alex Howard
That's awesome. And then can you tell us a little bit how did you get into working in audio description and doing quality control?

Serina Gilbert
Yeah, I sure can. So it's funny. During COVID, I was talking to actually Roy Samuelson. You guys probably are very familiar with him. He's a voice artist that's on a lot of pretty big shows. And that connection came through another podcast, ironically. And I told him, "Yeah, it'd be really cool to get into audio description. I just don't know how that works." And he's like, "I have a project that you can do some quality control for me. You want to do it?" And I was like, "Well, sure. I'll try it out. Why not?" So we did a live quality control session there. And we walked through and I helped. Like, "Hey, that line could be more concise. Let's move this line a little," that thing. From there, I got the bug, and I read up on different audio description quality control principles, and did some good old Internet research and found companies, and sent my letter of interest, and one hired me and trained me, and then I blossomed out from there. Right now, I just work for one company, but I love working for them. I work for Descriptive Video Works as a freelancer, and they treat me amazing, and they're just a really great company to freelance for. So that's where I get to do most of the work for.

Lee Pugsley
That's great. And for those listeners out there who may not know what audio description quality control is, can you just explain a little bit about what that role actually involves and what quality control means for audio description?

Serina Gilbert
Yeah. So I'll break it down even a little deeper than that. A lot of people do not realize that with audio description, there's several people that come to that team to make that track happen. So it starts with having a writer actually write that script, and then a narrator or a voice artist to then record that script. And then typically, that's when the quality control specialist comes in and listens to the track with the narration on it. The audio description quality control specialist role is to, number one, make sure what was written was what was recorded, make sure what was written actually makes sense. There's not big words that nobody knows what it means, and then you're distracted and wondering what they were describing. Keeping in mind the audio description principles and the way the audio description should be set up and things like that. Then also making sure that it's culturally relevant, that the terms that are being used make sense. Like, is this a show based in the UK or Canada or the US? Making sure those all align and then culturally as far as subcultures and minority-type things as well.

So a lot of people think, "Oh, cool. You get to just watch audio description and you just sit there and eat your popcorn while you're doing it." And it's a different way to experience it. You're not just sitting there for entertainment. You're rewinding, you're really looking at the lines, you're taking it in a different way than just being entertaining. Like, yes, it's fun because I get to watch shows prerelease quite often, but it's not like I'm just sitting on the couch with popcorn.

Alex Howard
So then how early do you get to see some of the shows? And in conjunction with that, were you a fan of The Last of Us before? And then you were like, "Oh, I get to watch season 2 early"? Or was it more doing work and then watching it when it aired normally?

Serina Gilbert
As far as how far in advance you get to watch titles, it really just depends. Sometimes there's things that have tight turnarounds, and then you see it hit Netflix just a few weeks later. But then I've also had other projects that I did some QC work on that I didn't see hit whatever platform until two years later. So you just never know when it's going to come out. And as far as if I was a fan of The Last Of Us, I actually was. I normally don't get into post-apocalyptic-type shows, but I was walking through the living room and my husband was watching it. I was like, "What's this? This looks really interesting." So I watched the first season with him. When that season came on each week, we would sit down and watch it every Sunday. And then I had an opportunity to help with part two, and I was ridiculously excited to be able to work on that. That one was a little bit different to work on because it was so, obviously, high profile. That one, I did not get to have the recorded narrated track. I had the written script and I had the unnarrated track. So obviously, I could follow the show. And that is a little bit harder, obviously, because you have to follow the script and the time codes and make sure that you're keeping up with the action based on audio cues and listening really closely.

Lee Pugsley
Now, you had mentioned that there were guiding principles for audio description that you measure your quality control assessment with. In your opinion, what makes a good audio description track? What are those things that you look for when you're like, "This is a very high quality audio description track?"

Serina Gilbert
The first thing, this is more when I'm just being a consumer, not a quality control specialist. And you'll understand why I say this with my first one. Because when you're quality controlling, you don't always get the final mix of things because they're going to mix it before they send it over. But when I'm just sitting at home as a fan, just watching it at home, the track has to be completely immersive, where it doesn't feel like this was something that they added after the fact. It feels like this was written and part of the show from the very beginning, including how it was mixed. We've all turned on maybe a film, and we're like, "Cool, I'll turn on the audio description." And the audio description is at, like, a hundred, but then the film is at 30, and it's just completely unenjoyable because you're being yelled at for half of it, but then you can't understand the dialog for the other half. So that's a big deal with me is, does the language and the mix and all that match the tone of the show? Or was this just a box that was checked off? The other piece that makes it really quality is pairing the right voice artist and voice talent with the type of show that it is, because not every voice can go on every single title.

There's some children shows that it does not make sense to have certain voices on it because that's not going to be engaging for a young child that has vision loss. If it's this monotone voice, but it's this animated Pokémon show or something. And then using the right choice of words. I say this all the time. We don't need the S.A.T. words if we can say it with a middle school word and everyone's going to understand it. We don't need to get flowery it. So those are the big things that I look for.

Alex Howard
Another thing about The Last Of Us, that was one of the only shows that I can remember that actually credited the quality control at the end. Usually, they'll say, Audio Description, Produced by Descriptive VideoWorks, narrated by Rory Samuelson. But then he actually said, QC by Serina Gilbert. How did that make you feel when that was started?

Serina Gilbert
That was a big deal. I was so, so excited because Roy was the one that actually shared with me, "By the way, this is going to happen. I'm putting you and I'm making sure that you're voiced, you're named and everything." And it's happened before, but on much smaller projects, like Possibilities with AFB. And I can't remember the name of the documentary, I should know this, but the George Floyd documentary that was done a while ago. It's been voiced in smaller projects, but not something on as big of a platform as Max. And it was just really cool to hear my name like, "Oh, my name's there!" Granted, the side audience doesn't even know that that exists or even listen to that, but it meant a lot to me. It was pretty cool.

Lee Pugsley
And rightfully, everyone that's involved with audio description in the creation should be credited. It's something that I'm a strong advocate of because there are so many people that put a track together, and a lot of times, they don't get the recognition they deserve. So I'm really happy to hear that you were credited for The Last Of Us.

Serina Gilbert
It was pretty cool. I hope that it creates a standard where that does become the norm, where maybe it's crediting the writer, the narrator, the mixer, because it's not... Like, HBO Max isn't mixing that audio description track. Point 360 mixes that track. There's a lot that goes into it, just like all the people whose names come up on those credits. That should be the norm.

Lee Pugsley
Exactly. And that's why we love having these types of interviews, because it brings more awareness to the different parts of audio description, not just the writer and the narrator who do excellent work, But there's so many other pieces of the puzzle that fit together to make a comprehensive experience for the blind or low-vision viewer. Now, you had mentioned that a lot of people think, "Oh, it must be fun just to sit and watch audio description all day and eat popcorn." But as we know, there's more to that, that goes into that process. So what are some of the challenges that you've encountered with QC?

Serina Gilbert
Well, you don't get to choose which titles you get. So sometimes you get a title that you probably would never watch in real life. So you still have to be just as focused on something that is maybe not your genre or something that you're super interested in. I do learn a lot by watching some of these things. I'm like, "I never knew this about this" or whatever. The other challenge is, it is a very technical job as well. You have to have really good tech skills to be able to do this because I don't know any quality control roles that are not freelance, independent contractor, which means that you don't really have somebody to come sit by you and show you how to log into all these different portals and things that you have to be able to access securely. The company that I work with, they have accessible things, and they'll let you know, "Hey, here's a tip sheet" and things like that, but they're not going to remote into your computer and help walk you through if you hit a snag or anything like that. So you got to be able to troubleshoot that.

And sometimes you do have to meet some tight deadlines. There's been some shows that there's a rush on it, and they'll be like, "Hey, can you do this tonight for me so I can get this back to the writer in the morning?" So you have to have a lot of flexibility and self-motivation to really hop on there and get it done.

Lee Pugsley
When you're taking notes during a track that you're doing QC for, are you just typing them in a Google document, or is there a portal that has a note section, or how does that work for you?

Serina Gilbert
It depends on the client and the specific audio description company that you're working for. Some do have a specific portal, and you can type the notes right there right next to the queue, that the writer will see or the narrator or whoever needs to see it. Other times, it's like you're just in the script and it's a spreadsheet. It just depends on the company.

Alex Howard
So then, yeah, how many times do you watch something through? Because I know Lee and I have done QC a couple of times for some smaller projects, usually short films, and we'll watch it two or three times. Once all the way through without stopping is the way I do it usually. And then I'll make notes, and then I'll go through. What's your process like?

Serina Gilbert
I only watch it once. Because I feel like if it's not making sense the first round through, it should make sense the first round through for any audience member. That doesn't mean I'm not rewinding or going back. Like, when I hear a cue and I'm like, "Wait, that doesn't make sense. Is that the right name? Is that the right title?" But yeah, I only watch it once through, but it does take me time and a half or double time to do that. If it's an hour show, it might take me 90 minutes to an hour, depending on the complexity. I've done a lot of reality shows. Those don't take nearly as long. They're really pretty straightforward for them to describe. It's a lot of names and interview and names. Those go by pretty quick. But more detailed shows that have more cues will take a little bit longer.

Alex Howard
That makes sense. And then another big thing that you did, which I thought was super cool, you got to go to Comic-Con this year. Do you want to tell us a little bit about that?

Serina Gilbert
I did. I appeared virtually. I was so bummed because I could have physically gone there, and I was like, "Dang it." We had just taken a trip, and the day I got back from the trip, Roy reached out and was like, "Do you want to go to Comic-Con?" And I was like, "I just spent so much money on a trip," and it's very expensive to go to Comic-Con because of the hotels. That's what actually adds up. But that was really cool, though. I was on a panel where we got to talk about audio description. It was myself and then Colleen from Audio Description Training Retreats, and Roy and...

Anna Capezzera from Deluxe?

Yes. Thank you. Anna from Deluxe, though. And that was fun. We had some technical difficulties, but we were still able to share tons and tons of tons. And I'm actually keeping my fingers crossed the next year. I can just go in person. So we'll see.

Alex Howard
That's so, so cool. How did you guys get an audio description panel at Comic-Con? What was the topic or the purpose? I mean, obviously, the purpose was to raise awareness, but how did they convince Comic-Con to do a panel on AD?

Serina Gilbert
This is at least the second year in a row that they've done an AD panel. Because Roy was the one that submitted for it. He might have even had some in years past, but there's this kind of a standard now where they've been able to have accessibility and audio description panels and things as part of it as well. It's nice that this is something that's being talked about. We talked a lot about really advocating for audio description being part of the production from day one instead of it being after the film or the show wraps and is edited and here's the final thing, so that it can really be more seamlessly integrated and follow the show, not lose it because it moves from one streaming service to another.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, that's an ongoing struggle, I feel like, for all of us, is trying to get that audio description track to accompany whatever piece of media is traveling from service to service. I'm really glad, though, that you guys were able to get that visibility at a place as big as Comic-Con. I think that's important for the industry at large, for us in the blind and low vision community here to just spread awareness and to start those conversations or continue those conversations.

Alex Howard
Serina, what are some of the projects you're most proud of and the ones that you had the most fun with?

Serina Gilbert
Gosh, I'm trying to think. I really did have fun with The Last of Us Part 2 because it was a really collaborative... It was a different approach to it. Normally, I'm not in touch with the director and the recording people. And with the way that this one was, the project manager was also in the studio directing the voice talent. So when I would give notes, he would be able to chat with me and be like, "Oh, yeah, we don't know what that word means either. We're going to change it." Or he would be like, "Okay, so this is why this was selected. We went and reviewed it," and it was just really, really collaborative. So that one was really the most fun, and I think resulted in some really high-quality audio description. Some of the other really fun ironically, are the reality shows because there's just so much. There's so much funny things that get described where you're like, "Oh, man, I wonder how long it took them to decide how to write that," (laughs) and just seeing how much work really goes into a writer deciding how to describe what.

And then one of my most interesting projects that I got to be a part of as far as quality control, it's a spooky one on Netflix called Cassandra. And I don't want to give too much away. You'll just have to go watch the preview, but it's a limited series. And like I said, October is probably the perfect time to watch it. And it was very interesting. And the audio description was just beautifully written. And the type of series that it is, it required a lot of creativity in how to describe different things. So it was really cool.

Alex Howard
Serina, in your spare time, when you're not doing quality control, what things do you like to watch? And do you find that it's hard to listen to AD because you're constantly doing the quality control part of your brain?

Serina Gilbert
You read my mind, yes. I like to watch like, comedy-type things. I'm probably going to get tomatoes thrown at me for this. I never watched the Big Bang Theory when it was on. So I'm experiencing it for the first time now. And that whole series is audio-described on Max, and it's just lovely to experience for the first time. I'm in the last season right now. So I tend to pick lighter things, but then also I have this weird obsession with medical dramas and things like that. One of my favorite things that I watched, I was telling Lee pre-show here, that I watched The Pitt on Max, which has amazing audio description on it. It's very, very well done. I didn't find myself QCing that as I was watching it because it was just perfect. And yes, I do find myself when I'm watching shows, I'll be like, "Oh, my God, they messed this up. They got to fix this." Or like, "This was not QCed." Sometimes it's hard to turn that part of your brain off because it's just... You know the way it's supposed to be. And sometimes that's not always the standard that held for everyone.

Alex Howard
So with me, for the Pitt, specifically, it's hard because I feel like trying to remember the names of all the characters, and you know the AD uses the character name, so you have to remember that. Do you have trouble with that or no?

Serina Gilbert
I do if there's too many. Sometimes in a scene, especially with a fast-moving show like The Pitt, they don't always have time to say what character is speaking because it's a dialogue-heavy show, so you have to try to learn the voices, too. And I agree with you. When there's a lot of characters in something like that, it does make it a little bit hard to keep track of who's who.

Lee Pugsley
Would you ever want to cross over into trying your hand at writing or narrating audio description and get more into that field?

Serina Gilbert
I would love to be able to do writing. And I think the technology might be getting there where we can eventually because there's a lot of AI, and then maybe it can be-- We could, it'd be very interestingly, actually, the blind person does the audio description and then the sighted person does the QC to make sure we got it right. That would be very interesting. So yes. And then narration, I actually kind of would like to, but I'm scared to. I don't know. I've talked to Roy about it before, and I'm just not there yet as far as... I know that time-wise, that would be really hard for me to commit to right now, but I've always thought both of those aspects would be super cool.

Lee Pugsley
You have a very nice voice that I could see fitting quite a few different audio description tracks. So hopefully that's some encouragement to you.

Serina Gilbert
One day, one day.

Lee Pugsley
And then one more question for you. From the time that you started doing audio description QC until where we're at now, have you seen any trends or patterns that have evolved over the last couple of years as you've been doing it?

Serina Gilbert
Seeing it get more inclusive and it get more objective, I feel like in the past, audio description was almost censored for our community in a way. There's gonna be raunchy stuff on TV, and you got to describe it the way that that show calls for it to be described. I feel like that's becoming more prevalent where it's not sanitized for us. And then I also feel like there's a lot more comfort in describing races and what people look like on television so that we can really get a picture of a character, as opposed to just saying, "A beautiful girl walks by." That means nothing to me. Beautiful is subjective. So you've got to say what that person looks like so the person themselves can decide if they think she's attractive or not. So I've been seeing a lot more of those things happening, which I think is amazing for audio description. One thing that I have also been seeing, which I don't like, and I'm sure you both have opinions on this too, is the increase in text to speech for audio description. I feel like, yes, the AI voices are getting very, very good, but we would never use an AI voice for the actor or the actress in the movie or the show. And I don't feel like we should use an AI voice in something that is scripted like that. Now, if it's an educational thing and it's more information sharing, I see that as different, or on social media, I see that as different. But if this is something that is beautifully crafted and then you've got this robotic voice, that's just not that fair to our audience.

Lee Pugsley
I'm in total agreement with everything you just said. I think that this should be treated the same way that you would treat any other creative part of the filmmaking or television production process.

Serina Gilbert
Yes, completely agree.

Alex Howard
Yeah, and I'm totally on board with you, too. And especially like what you were saying before, I think we talked about describing a girl as pretty or beautiful. That doesn't tell us anything. And a lot of the other trends that you've said, I think we've talked about a couple of times on the podcast. So we are in complete agreement there. Are there any shows that you would love to do QC for?

Serina Gilbert
Let me think because there are some where I'm like, "Dang it, I wish I would have gotten that assignment." Bridgerton would have been really cool just to, I don't know, because it's a whole different world. And trying to think of... The Pitt would have been really cool to QC that because I just love medical stuff. Yeah, that's probably the ones that come to mind as far as big titles and things like that. I've done some pretty prevalent and high-profile titles, which is really cool to have those opportunities. But yeah, anything medical and I'm in.

Alex Howard
Then do you want to do a little promo for the Facebook group in case some of our listeners would like to join in on the conversation?

Serina Gilbert
Yeah. We have a public Facebook group called Audio Description Discussion Group. You can just type in Audio Description Discussion on Facebook. I don't even know how many members we have in there now because it just grows every week. But that is a forum where you can ask questions about audio description. If you're wondering if there's an audio description track on a streaming service or something like that, you can ask questions. There's a lot of writers and narrators and audio description people, industry people. You'd be surprised who's in that group. There's lots and lots of people who do see what's in that group, and change does happen from the advocacy that comes from that group.

Alex Howard
And that group is how Lee and I met, too.

Serina Gilbert
Awesome. That's really cool.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, it has been really exciting to see the changes that do come from the discussions that happen on the Audio Description Facebook group, seeing someone will throw out something like a post where someone wonders if something has audio description or is sad that a project doesn't have audio description. And then you see a post a few weeks later that says, "Now this project has audio description." So I love the fact that this group exists, and I love the fact that it really can implement real change because we've seen it happen in real-time.

Alex Howard
So Serina, I don't know if you have... Do you have Letterboxd or no?

Serina Gilbert
I don't know what that is.

Alex Howard
Okay. It's a movie social media thing. It's like you can rank and review and keep track of the movies you're watching and stuff. Basically, when Letterboxd does interviews on red carpets, they ask people what their four favorite movies are on Letterboxd. So what are your four favorite movies?

Serina Gilbert
Oh, no. This was not in the show notes, Alex. (laughs) Oh, my gosh. Okay. I'll just go with movies that I can watch on repeat, and they're all total reflection of my teenage college days because I don't watch as many movies now. I love The Hunger Games. I also love Clueless. These are no order. These are very lame movies, I know. I'm sorry. Which both those do have audio description. What else? Oh, I love Aladdin. I know that's weird because of the Whole New World. Not the live person one, like the Original, the animated one. And then, gosh, you said four? Trying to think what I could watch on repeat if I only could choose four movies. Probably Home Alone. I love Home Alone, too.

Alex Howard
Those are great choices. Yeah, and I think all of those have audio descriptions, so that's great.

Serina Gilbert
They do.

Lee Pugsley
I love all of those movies as well. You have really good taste.

Serina Gilbert
Okay. I felt like a dork because I was like, Clueless, but I'm a '90s baby. So... (laughs)

Alex Howard
Oh, no, I watched it after the first time this year, actually, with AD.

Serina Gilbert
Yes, it's on Paramount with AD, which is really cool.

Alex Howard
And then another thing I want... This is totally off topic, but do you want to tell us about your daughter and how... Because I know there's a stereotype with blind people can't be parents or good parents or whatever. And that's not good. And I have a son also. So do you want to talk about your daughter? How old is she? All that?

Serina Gilbert
So I actually have a son. He is twelve.

Alex Howard
Oh, I'm sorry.

Serina Gilbert
You're all good. I never said son or daughter, so that's It's all good. He's 12, all pre-teen attitude, all that. And he thinks he can get away with stuff because he thinks that he can't notice what he's up to, but he never gets away with it. I just always have a sense when he's trying to sneak food upstairs or he's getting away with stuff. I remember when I was pregnant with him, I was super nervous. I was like, I don't even know how I'm going to change his diaper and all this stuff. And a sighted friend of mine was like, "I don't change my kid's diaper with any lights on in the middle of the night. I just do it in dark. You'll be fine." I was like, "Well, okay." And I was. You figure it out. He is sighted. My husband is also sighted. But when my son was younger, I was the primary person that took care of feeding, changing, bathing, all those different things. Yeah.

Even when I was at the hospital, a lot of people get really scared because, like, the social workers usually come by and ask lots of questions and things like that. And I had the best social worker ever. My baby had to go home on oxygen when he was born for, I don't know, just a couple of weeks. But they were trying to keep me in the hospital an extra day longer so I could get used to him being on oxygen. I was like, "I just want to go home." And the social worker was like, "No, Serina wants to go home. You need to let her go home so she can get her own environment." I know sometimes that can be uncomfortable because I've heard some stories about social workers having some preconceived notions about blind moms. I'll never forget, her name was Jane, and she treated me with so much respect and I was able to go home and just be a new mom like anyone else.

Alex Howard
That's amazing. I totally feel it. I struggle. Okay, so quick parenting question, totally off topic. I'm sorry. This is the last non-movie-related question.

Serina Gilbert
Oh, it's all good.

Alex Howard
So for me, when I go see my my son. I take him to the park and he runs around. And I was like, last time I was there, I was like, "Oh, I'm going to put him in a bright-colored T-shirt so I can see where he is." So I had him in bright red. And of course, Spider-Man is massive. So then two other kids came in with bright red Spider-Man shirts, and I was like, "Okay, now I have no clue which one is my son." Did you have trouble with that?

Serina Gilbert
We usually went to some pretty small parks, and I would be out there with him when he was littler. And then as he got older, he got more freedom, and I was just like, "Whatever, come back over if you need something." But I've also heard of individuals putting the bells and things on them so that they can hear where they're at and stuff like that. And then kids kind of adapt. They get used to checking in every once in a while.

Alex Howard
Oh, for sure.

Serina Gilbert
"I'm over here," so I just don't stress about it anymore.

Alex Howard
Yeah. No, it's more embarrassing for me because I'll go up to someone and be like, "Hey," and then I'll be like, "Oh, that's not... Okay."

Serina Gilbert
Just call the name out. They'll come to you.

Alex Howard
Exactly.

Serina Gilbert
How old is your son?

Alex Howard
He's five.

Serina Gilbert
Oh, yeah. He's that age. He'll come to you.

Alex Howard
And I can't keep up with him. So I was just like, "Okay, go run. He'll run back to me." But you know.

Serina Gilbert
You could put an Air tag on him.

Alex Howard
Oh, there you go.

Serina Gilbert
And just set it off when you're ready to go.

Alex Howard
I went to Horror Nights a couple of weeks ago, and my friends were joking they should put an Air tag on me because there were a couple of times I got separated from them, and it was like, "Oh, yeah. Next year, let's just put an air tag on me, and it'll be fine."

Lee Pugsley
I always say that people within the disabled community were some of the most resourceful and innovative people to figure out problem solving or how to do things in creative and adaptable ways. I think I take pride in the fact that we can contribute that.

Alex Howard
Serina, do you have anything that you want to promote or anything coming up?

Serina Gilbert
Not anything coming up, but if anyone wants to connect with me, I am most active on Facebook and TikTok. So my handle is BlindyGirl on Facebook, spelled B-L-I-N-D-Y, Girl. And then on TikTok, it's also BlindyGirl, but it's like @BlindyGirlOfficial because somebody stole BlindyGirl in there, which is weird. But yeah, I post lots of videos, and I talk about audio description on there as well. You're all welcome to connect with me there. And there's also a Facebook group called BlindyGirl Inner Circle, if you want to connect with me in there as well.

Alex Howard
Oh, that's right. You post a lot of great reels and a lot of like, I want to say, life hacks. Is that what you would qualify it as for blind people?

Serina Gilbert
Yeah, and snarkiness. I like to make light of different things, just things to make people laugh and then feel like you're not in this alone. And you know. Some of the jokes I post on there, only we will get.

Alex Howard
Oh, for sure. Yeah.

Serina Gilbert
Yeah.

Lee Pugsley
That's so important, too, to know that we are not alone on this journey. And also laughter is a very good thing, especially with everything happening right now in the world.

Alex Howard
100%. So, yeah, if you guys are interested, go check out Serina on Facebook and TikTok, and join us on the Audio Description Discussion. I mean, Lee and I are there. Serina is one of the admins. John Stark is there. A lot of the people we've had on the podcast are in there. So if you're interested in AD, if you have any -- I don't want to say complaints -- if you have any questions, all that stuff, join the AD group in the conversation.

Lee Pugsley
And if you have any questions or comments for me and Alex, you can always reach us at DarkRoomFilmCast@gmail.com. Once again, that's DarkRoomFilmCast@gmail.com. And you can follow us on Instagram @DarkRoomFilmCast and subscribe to our YouTube channel @DarkRoomFilmCast as well.

Alex Howard
And we'd like to Matt Lauterbach and All Senses Go for making captions of this podcast possible, as well as BlindCAN for helping out with the editing.

Lee Pugsley
Well, thank you so much. And Serina, thank you once again for being here. This has been a pleasure to talk to you. And Happy National Disability Employment Awareness Month to you as well.

Serina Gilbert
Thank you for having me. I enjoyed it.

Lee Pugsley
And thank you all for listening. We'll see you back here next time on The Dark Room.

Alex Howard
Take care, guys.