Ep. 53: Celebrating Stephen King

Alex & Lee celebrate the legacy of the prolific Stephen King by reviewing his four theatrical adaptations from 2025 and some of their personal favorites. They also go into some industry talk about the current and future state of Warner Bros.

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Transcript

Lee Pugsley
Happy November, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of The Dark Room, where two blind cinephiles illuminate the sighted. I'm Lee Pugsley.

Alex Howard
I'm Alex Howard.

Lee Pugsley
And this is a podcast hosted by two legally blind guys for film lovers of all abilities. And today, we're really excited about this episode as we celebrate the prolific Stephen King. We are going to review his four theatrical releases from this year, as well as highlighting some of our own favorite Stephen King films. Then we're going to have a little bit of industry talk about Warner Brothers and what's going on with them. Let's start here. The prolific Stephen King. He's had numerous adaptations. He's written 65 novels and over 200 short stories. Out of those, there has been 75 Stephen King adaptations, whether it's TV shows, mini-series, or feature films. Obviously, some of them have been remakes as well. But in light of the recent release of The Running Man, we thought it would be fun to just dive into the world of Stephen King, which I know Alex, you're a very big fan of. And I'm not quite to the level that you are with Stephen King properties, but I know you probably have a lot of thoughts on Stephen King, so let's just start here. What is it about Stephen King books or movies or TV shows that resonates with you?

Alex Howard
Yeah. So Stephen King, I've read about four of his books. I read Pet Sematary, Thinner, Salem's Lot, and The Running Man. So I think Stephen King does a really good job of developing his characters. I think he spends a lot of time, which for better or for worse, he spends a lot of time developing the characters in the beginning before getting into the horror most of the time. I know Salem's Lot, for me, spent a little bit too much time doing that. But I think something like Pet Sematary really pays off when he does that. And I think in general, I mean, Stephen King has become a really big influence on Hollywood in general, but especially horror. I mean, he's created Pennywise and all of these different iconic things like The Shining and Carrie. You can't think of horror without thinking of Stephen King. And I think he's also touched different things like the Shawshank Redemption, and we'll get in all of that, too. But he's just had a huge impact. And he's been putting out one to two books a year since 1974. So I mean, there's like an endless amount of material you can take from.

Lee Pugsley
It's crazy how much he continues to put out and how many of his books and stories continue to be adapted. I mean, he has to be the most adapted writer, I would assume. I can't think of anyone that's more prolific than him.

Alex Howard
Yeah, and he can even put his name on something, and it sells more tickets in that way. And I think his son also is selling things like Into the Tall Grass, and he's starting to write some stuff, too.

Lee Pugsley
It'll be interesting to see how his son carries on the legacy of his father, which I'm sure will happen. And going back to something that you touched on earlier about Stephen King and horror, I guess you could call him the Shakespeare of horror, really, because you can't think about horror movies without thinking about Stephen King. And I think for that reason, that's probably why I'm not as familiar with his material, because when I was younger, I wasn't really allowed to watch horror movies. So it's only been within the last, I'd say, 15 years that I really took a deep dive into more of the horror world.

Alex Howard
Yes, same for me. I mean, I just got into horror the last 15 or 20 years as well. But I think when I got injured at work, like 2022, and I couldn't really look at screens, and so I started reading. And so that's when I started reading a lot of Stephen King. So I read three or four books in the last three years.

Lee Pugsley
And one of the things that I think really hits with his audiences, whether it's in book, movie, or TV form, is the character development, like you had mentioned, that even though there's high concept worlds, these characters feel relatable. They feel like people that are living in your hometown or in a town that you've been to. They feel like average everyday people. And I think that's really one of the draws for people, that when they read them they can put themselves into Stephen King's stories, whether it's an adventure, whether it's some scary situation. All of those things seem to resonate with the audiences. I also like the fact that Stephen King deals with real issues as well, such as childhood trauma or isolation or friendship. So I think that those are timeless themes that have lasted through the generations and will continue to last, even though Stephen King may do it in a very heightened way.

Alex Howard
Yeah, and I think that's where the big cultural impact comes in, and how you remain relevant and remain an icon is having those relatable themes, like you said, childhood trauma with It, and all these other properties, and friendship, and Relating the horror back to real life and real issues, and even The Running Man with politics a little bit, which is crazy because The Running Man was written back in the '80s, and it took place in 2025. Yet that story is still very relevant today. So yeah, having those themes relate back to modern issues is what really keeps Stephen King very relevant.

Lee Pugsley
I think another asset that Stephen King has is that he's very open to creatives adapting his material. Some material has been adapted multiple times in various formats, whether it's spinoff shows or it's just another remake of a classic Stephen King property. He's very open to giving those artists creative freedom to explore and to reinterpret the material the way that they want to. He's not so much trying to micromanage everything that goes into that. And so if you're a studio or an independent filmmaker and you want to take a Stephen King property, it's nice to know that you have his stamp of approval to do something out of the ordinary with it.

Alex Howard
I think within reason.

Lee Pugsley
Of course.

Alex Howard
I know the classic story with The Shining is that he hated Stanley Kubrick's The Shining, and that's why he made Stephen King's The Shining, which is not as highly regarded. But he very vocally was anti Stanley Kubrick's The Shining. And infamously, Stanley Kubrick put a car that was overturned and riddled with snow in his movie. And it was basically... It was Stephen King's car, and it was basically saying, F you, I'm doing my own thing here. So I think The Shining is really the only example of things where he was very anti that adaptation.

Lee Pugsley
That's a good point. And I'm always a fan of honoring the author's original integrity in any form. So if you are going to adapt a Stephen King property, I think you still need to stay true to what is this original story and how do we honor the author's original intent.

Alex Howard
I agree, but I also think The Shining is a master piece. I mean, I don't agree with Stephen King. I think that movie's amazing. But yeah.

Lee Pugsley
It's a balancing act for sure. And I agree that The Shining is one of Stephen King's best adaptations, whether he loves it or hates it. It stood the test of time, and it's so iconic now that what more is there to say about it? I mean, you know?

Alex Howard
Yeah. And I think one of the other testaments to Stephen King is he's had influence, not just with his material, but like, beyond. Things that have been inspired by his material, like Stranger Things is heavily inspired by Stephen King. And just basically anything relating back to the '80s horror is Stephen King.

Lee Pugsley
Very true. And I'm sure if we were to even dive deeper, we would find so many other horror properties that were inspired by Stephen King.

Alex Howard
Yeah. The last point about it, I think it's crazy because he's touched so many different genres of horror. I mean, genres in general. I mean, he just had his book, Fairy Tale, which was more like fantasy. But in terms of horror, he's done clowns. I guess you could say zombies-ish with Pet Sematery. You could say all of these different types of things, supernatural, and just anything you can think of. I feel like he's touched that genre in terms of horror.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, it's a very good point. I'm glad that you brought that up, that within his material, it covers so many different characters, so many different subjects, and it does it in very creative ways, which is a good segue into talking about the Stephen King adaptations that have come out this year. There have been four movies and two television adaptations, correct?

Alex Howard
Yes, that's correct.

Lee Pugsley
So let's go ahead and just touch on the movies. I haven't watched the TV shows, and I believe you haven't either, right?

Alex Howard
He had The Institute on MGM+ and he had Welcome to Derry, which I haven't seen either of them yet. Welcome to Derry is on my list, and I have not gotten to it. He's had four movies, The Running Man, The Long Walk, The Life of Chuck, and The Monkey.

Lee Pugsley
Which is crazy that he's had four adaptations this year alone within the film industry, and all of them had big studio releases. It wasn't a mini-series or something that was just put on streaming.

Alex Howard
Yeah, I mean, two of them were independent. It's Neon. It's still like a studio, but it's not like one of the major studios. But I think the other crazy thing is only one of them is a remake. Two of them, well, actually, three of them had never been adapted before.

Lee Pugsley
That's a good point. There's still so many stories from Stephen King that haven't yet been adapted, that there's a never-ending arsenal of material to draw upon. So let's go ahead and give our thoughts on the movies from this year, starting with the most recent, The Running Man. What did you think of that movie?

Alex Howard
I was a little disappointed by it, to be honest. I think it's the weakest of the four that have come out this year, which It's crazy because this was on my most anticipated of the year. I mean, it's Edgar Wright, it's Glenn Powell, it's Stephen King. So I was like, "How can you go wrong?" And this was the only one of the books... Well, that's not true. I have read The Monkey, and I have read Life of Chuck, but those are short stories. But this is the only long-form book that I read. I think I actually have a half hour left in the audiobook. I didn't want to read the end because I didn't want to spoil the ending, but I felt like the end of the movie was actually the weakest part of the movie. I felt like there were three endings. It didn't really feel cohesive to me, a lot of the movie. They had its moments for sure. I mean, Glenn Powell definitely was the highlight. He continues to prove himself as a leading man. He's going to be huge. But in terms of an Edgar Wright, Stephen King adaptation, it didn't really live up to the bar for me.

Lee Pugsley
I share a lot of your same thoughts. I think my biggest issue with The Running Man was how convoluted it got. The first half of the movie worked better than the second half. But in the second half, they started introducing new plot points with very little development, and I feel like the way that they resolved those things was very rushed. I also felt like tonally, there are so many different shifts as to: Is this a drama? Is this a comedy? Is this an action movie? And trying to be all of those things, but never fully hitting the mark and committing to one of those. So it just got a little bit messy. I do agree with you that Glenn Powell was the highlight of the movie. I think that he has proven himself as an actor, and he works really well for the role that he played in this film. I just wanted more and found it very disappointed with the end product that we got.

Alex Howard
Yeah, no, I was so stoked for this because I love Baby Driver is one of my favorite movies of the last 10 years. And so I'm always hoping Edgar Wright will bring that back. And there was a shot in the trailer where it was like, it looked like a long take of Glenn Powell running through the hall. And I was like, "Oh, is this going to be the action we're going to get in this movie?" And it was like that one scene was like that, that one shot. And other than that, it didn't have that feel through the whole movie.

Lee Pugsley
I felt the same way when I watched the trailer, and I was excited for it. Probably not as excited as you, but still looking forward to the movie. Well, let's go ahead and move on to the next Stephen King adaptation, The Long Walk. And I'll go ahead and start with my thoughts on this movie. And I'll go ahead and start with my thoughts on this movie. I love this movie. I think it will be my top 10 of the year. It's definitely not an uplifting movie. You're not going to walk away feeling joyful about life. But what really sold me on this movie is the character development. I think that this cast of young and upcoming actors did a very good job of making you care about each of them, making you feel like you get to know a part of their lives. And really the camaraderie and brotherhood that they were able to form along the way was the most compelling thing about this film. And that's really what you had to work with because you're literally watching them walk the entire time. But I found it really compelling and moving in parts as well.

Alex Howard
Yeah, I did like this movie. I don't think I loved it much as you did. The whole premise of this movie is shooting the kids that stop walking. But I do think you're right. I think the camaraderie between the kids was the best part of the movie. I did read half of this book, and I'm not going to lie, the only reason I stopped... It was a great book, but the only reason I stopped is in the book, there are so many characters, so I kept getting them mixed up because there's like 100... I don't know how many were walking in the movie, but in the book, I think there were about twice as many. I did really like the way the movie ended. I thought they did a great job because you think, "Oh, it's just kids walking. That's going to get boring." And the movie did a really great job of keeping your attention.

Lee Pugsley
I felt like the screenplay was pretty strong for this movie. And then to go back to something you had mentioned, in the movie, there's 50 kids, one from each state. But I had heard that in the book, there's double that, which I'm glad they made that change, because if you had 100 kids at the very beginning of the movie, that would feel overwhelming. And there's obviously no way you're going to get to know all of them. Fifty is a lot on its own, and we knew that we weren't going to get to know all of those kids as well. There was only a handful of those kids that were really going to be highlighted in the film.

Alex Howard
Yeah, and I think that was a great choice as well.

Lee Pugsley
Well, if you don't have any other thoughts on The Long Walk, let's go ahead and talk about Life of Chuck, and I'll throw the ball to you on this one. On your thoughts.

Alex Howard
This one is one of my favorite movies of the year. I think this one will be in my top 10. I absolutely love The Life of Chuck. I think it's in the upper tier of Stephen King adaptations. But beyond that, it has that tone from Shawshank, Green Mile, more of a retrospective on life rather than horror, which is usually not my choice when it comes to Stephen King, but I really, really love this movie. I thought they did a great job of adapting the short story. I saw it with a Q&A from Tom Hiddleston and Chiwetel Ejiofor, Mike Flanagan, who directed it. Mike Flanagan is one of my favorite filmmakers as well. And surprisingly, Mark Hamill was there, too. He wasn't supposed to be there. But he came to the Q&A as well. That was really, really cool. And I think, especially knowing that it was Mike Flanagan behind it, who is one of the icons in horror. Right now, he's adopting Carrie into a mini-series for Amazon Prime Video, and he's also doing the Dark Tower series as well. I mean, knowing Mike Flanagan was behind it and it won the Audience Award at TIFF, I went in with pretty high expectations. I mean, this was also in my most was anticipated of the year, and I thought it was so good. I really think Mark Hamill deserves to be considered for an Oscar nomination. He's not going to get it. It was too small. It came out in June. It was too early in the year to be considered for Oscars. But I think if we were to really look at it, it was the performance of Mark Hamill's career.

Lee Pugsley
I share a lot of your same thoughts on this one as well. I love Life of Chuck. And if we're talking about movies that do feel more uplifting than something like The Long Walk, this is definitely the winner for the Stephen King movies this year. I found it very poignant, thought-provoking, and I think it has a lot to say about time and just moments in life and how we spend them and what we choose to do with them. I also really liked the structure of the storytelling. For those that haven't seen it, I don't want to say anything beyond that because you should watch it. I know it's one of those movies that went under the radar a little bit, sadly. So now that it's available on streaming, definitely check it out. But I'll refrain from any more spoilers or things that could give it away. I think that if you just go into it not knowing anything about it, I think that's the best way to experience it.

Alex Howard
I completely agree. Yeah. And I think even if you're not into horror, it's not a horror movie.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I would just say it's very heartwarming and poignant in a lot of different ways that will surprise you.

Alex Howard
Yes, I definitely recommend. I do want to tell one quick story. Mike Flanagan at the Q&A, he told a really funny story. There's a scene where things appear in the window. I don't want to go into a lot of detail, but things appear in all of these windows around this neighborhood at night. Mike Flanagan said, since it was an independent movie, they couldn't afford special effects for that. So they went out and they bought tons of flat screen TVs and put them in the windows of these houses and lit them all up to have this image on them. And then after they were done, they returned the TVs, but they broke two of them in the process of shooting. So they obviously couldn't return those. But even that was cheaper than doing the special effects. Paying for two TVs was way cheaper.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, that's a nice little story, and I'm glad that you got to experience the Q&A with that movie.

Alex Howard
Yeah, it was awesome. So then the next one, The Monkey. I feel like this is the polar opposite of The Life of Chuck. This is the horror, comedy, over the top gore. And it's weird because this is Osgood Perkins, who did Longlegs and Keeper, which those are two more serious horror movies. But this is very much horror comedy. What did you think of The Monkey, Lee?

Lee Pugsley
This is such an interesting movie because I was entertained by this movie. However, tonally, I found it all over the place. I wasn't sure if this was a full-on comedy, if this was a dark comedy, if this was trying to fully horror, or I guess you could call it a horror comedy. But there were just so many tonal shifts all around that I didn't know what to make of this movie. I think that Theo James, playing two characters, did a fantastic job. And I think some of the kills are very over the top and wildly entertaining as well. It gave me a little bit of Final Destination vibes, even though it's definitely not Final Destination.

Alex Howard
Definitely has those vibes. The swimming pool kill was crazy.

Lee Pugsley
Yes, it was. I just recently watched this movie, too, so it's very fresh in my memory as well.

Alex Howard
Yeah. It's funny because I watched it back in February. So when you were saying he played two roles, I was like, "Wait, he did?" But no, this one was a lot of fun. It's not going to be in my favorites of the year. It's definitely just a fun, almost party movie to put on, turn your brain off, which is strange because I think it is from Neon still, which Neon usually does more like, cerebral movies, but it's definitely that tone. So yeah, if you're in the mood for a fun, just turn your brain off gory horror movie. The Monkey is definitely for you. And I really like that it really expanded on the material as well, because this was one of the short stories that I have read before, and they really went all in on it. The short story is not as gory as this movie is, but they really just went for it.

Lee Pugsley
I haven't read the short story, but after watching the movie, it made me curious, so I'll definitely check that out.

Alex Howard
Oh, it's not very long at all. I think it's maybe 20 pages or something. It's not long.

Lee Pugsley
Cool. Yeah, I'll give it a read. And looking back at all of these Stephen King movies that we talked about, all of them have a very different tone. You take The Running Man, which is action, The Long Walk, which is drama, Life of Chuck, which is a coming of age heartwarming piece, and then The Monkey, which is more horror-comedy. And it just goes to show you, even from this year, what a diverse range of material Stephen King has to offer.

Alex Howard
Oh, definitely. Yeah. It's very different in tone. And yeah, it all goes back to the same person, which is crazy.

Lee Pugsley
Now, moving beyond this year, what are some of your other favorite Stephen King movies? And I'm sure that for this one, it's going to be interesting because we're going to have very different takes on our favorite films from Stephen King.

Alex Howard
Yeah. So I think some of my... I mean, The Shining is probably my all-time favorite, Stephen King adaptation. I mean, I have The Shining artwork behind me in my office and on my door, and I have a blanket of The Shining. Yeah, I'm a big The Shining fan. The Shawshank Redemption is definitely up there. I mean, that's the top rated movie on IMDb. It's there for a reason. It's amazing. Misery is up there for me, too, which I'm sure is one of your favorites as well. That's an acting tour de force right there from Kathy Bates. It's a classic. I'd say Christine is probably one of my favorite, more underrated Stephen King adaptations, about the killer car. It from... what year was that? 2017 -- was really great. The first It was awesome. And then I'd also say even... I'd say The Mist also. I mean, The Mist has one of my favorite movie endings ever, which I'm not going to ruin because I know Lee hasn't seen it. But even Stephen King came out and said this ending was better than his book ending. And he's like, "How did I not think of this?" So yeah, I love The Mist for that reason. What are some of your favorites, Lee?

Lee Pugsley
We do have a little bit of crossover in our list. I would say that my favorite Stephen King adaptation is The Shawshank Redemption. I just find it very poignant and the bond of friendship so strong and compelling and moving. So that wins the prize. But beyond that, I really do like Misery, as you had mentioned, it does feel very much like a play in a lot of ways because it's confined to one location. But it really has those tour de force performances that are so gripping, and you just can't look away. And then beyond that, I really like The Green Mile. It's one of those underrated movies that a lot of people don't talk about nearly as much as they should. Not necessarily the most uplifting watch. It gets really dark there, but there are some nice moments of friendship that exist in there, and just even the struggles of living in a dark place and still keeping hope within that environment. And then Stand By Me, I think, is a really nice coming-of-age story about friendship and even what happens after childhood friendships come to an end and people go their separate directions. It's really fun. It's a great adventure film. And so those will probably be my favorites. And I do like The Shining as well. I do think The Shining is iconic visually for so many different reasons. I think Jack Nicholson's performance is one of the greats, and it's very memorable. There's still imagery from that movie, as I'm sure other people could attest to, that really stays with you since you first watched it.

Alex Howard
I think another one of mine, I can't believe I forgot this. This is my favorite, Stephen King book, one of my favorite books of all time, Pet Sematery. The movie version of that, I actually just rewatched it last week with the audio description because I have the 4K that Paramount put out of the original Pet Sematery has AD. I think it also has AD on Paramount Plus. It's so good. And the screenplay is co-written by Stephen King as well. And so very, very true to the book. Since it's one of my favorite books, it's fun watching the movie because it's basically like a 90-minute version of the book. So I don't have to reread the book and spend 10 hours reading that. I can just watch the movie. But the movie really captures the... I mean, the book is devastating. And the movie really does a great job of capturing that. But then also really leaning into the camp at the end. It really, really leans into it. Like in the last, I'd even say 30 seconds of the movie. So yeah, Pet Sematery is an outstanding movie as well. That's probably my top five Stephen King movies.

Lee Pugsley
I need to check that one out. I've never seen any adaptation of Pet Sematery, and it's been on my list for quite a while now.

Alex Howard
I think one of the other things we need to talk about when it comes to Stephen King is he's been doing this for so long that a lot of his older movies do not have audio description. I made a list last night of the Stephen King adaptations that don't have AD. The Green Mile, Christine, The Dead Zone, The Mist, Misery, Thinner, Children of the Corn, the original Carrie. They all don't have audio description. The Shining does have AD, but it's only on Prime video. But these are classic movies that I'm very surprised do not have AD, and I think that needs to change eventually.

Lee Pugsley
I would agree. And when we talk about accessibility as is the reason why we started this podcast, especially with Stephen King movies, audio description is essential because so many times the color palettes can be dark. There's so many visual horror elements that are involved with them that to fully take it in, if you have limited vision or no vision, you really need that extra level of accessibility to appreciate the fullness of the stories that are being told on screen.

Alex Howard
Yeah, for sure. And especially, I mean, some of the ones I just named are the pinnacle of Stephen King, I mean, Misery and The Green Mile, both of us had those on our list. Thinner is another good one that I read the book and then watched the movie. The Dead Zone is really, really good with Christopher Walken, and that's an underrated one. I think beyond this, there are so many Stephen King movies. This is just the tip of the iceberg. But I mean, I would say most of them probably pre-2005 most likely don't have AD.

Lee Pugsley
I think that's a very likely scenario. So hopefully we can do what we can to try to advocate for getting audio description on those films and other ones like that that can benefit to give the blind and low vision communities a full experience.

Alex Howard
Not to beat the point down, but I think, especially when it comes to Misery, that's a movie with two actors, pretty much, the whole movie. And there's a lot that happens when Kathy Bates leaves the cabin and he's trying to escape and there's no dialog. I think that one especially needs an AD track because you need to know what he's trying to do to escape.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, good point. Well, this has been really fun talking about Stephen King. Before we move on to our next topic for this episode, do you have any final thoughts on Stephen King?

Alex Howard
I mean, obviously, I love Stephen King adaptations. I mean, anything that has his name on it, I'll go check out. I'm super excited for, like I said, I think the Carrie miniseries coming out next year. The Dark Tower I'm super stoked for it because that movie was awful. So I'm super stoked for Mike Flanagan's adaptation. There's five books in that series or something. I would love to not read those because it's so much. So I'm banking on Mike Flanagan doing a great job adapting those so I can know that story. But yeah, I just love all of these adaptations. And honestly, I'm super excited for Stranger Things, and I'm sure that's going to take more from Stephen King for the last season coming up as well.

Lee Pugsley
The nice thing about Stephen King, too, is he's not going anywhere anytime soon. So we're going to continue getting these adaptations in their various forms. So that's reassuring, right?

Alex Howard
Oh, definitely. He and his son, I think... I don't know how he has so many ideas, because you would think even some of the short stories, I was thinking, if I had ideas for things, I wouldn't want to do a short story. I'd be like, "Okay, how can I make this into a book? Because I only have so many ideas." But he'll pop out a book of short stories with 20 stories in there. And I'm like, some of these have potential for a full book. He's like, "No, I have other things." You know.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, he truly is a genius in his own right. Well, let's go ahead and move into our next topic. When we did our 50th episode, one of the things we mentioned we wanted to implement was a section on Hollywood news and just commenting on things going on in the entertainment industry at large. And there's a topic that's been front and center for the last little while that we thought was worth discussing. And Alex, I'll pass it to you to introduce this topic.

Alex Howard
Yeah. So the big news in the entertainment industry right now seems to be the impending sale of Warner Brothers to someone. And it's crazy because it's been developing, and now they've said that there will be a buyer by Christmas. David Zaslav wants to have the paper signed and everything by Christmas so that they can have the next year fiscally, all of that stuff settled, all the business stuff ready to go. So in the next month, we're going to have Warner Brothers being owned by someone else. So we thought it'd be a good idea to run down the prospective buyers, do the positives and the negatives, but also from an accessibility perspective, how is this going to change things? Because there are certain companies that are better at accessibility than others. And so if one of those companies takes over Warner Brothers, how will that affect this landscape for us?

Lee Pugsley
And there have been companies that have already placed bids, such as Paramount. And I know that some other big studios are getting ready to place their bids as well. So let's just go ahead and run down the list and share thoughts on each of these studios or companies that could acquire Warner Brothers. Let's start first with Paramount. Do you have any thoughts on that acquisition being secured?

Alex Howard
So I mean, okay, obviously, the best case scenario will be Warner Brothers not to sell, which doesn't seem very likely right now. But for it to remain its own entity, I think, would be the best because that would mean with more studios, we get more product and more movies and more variety of movies. And so if Paramount were to buy Warner Brothers or Universal were to buy Warner Brothers, it would be one less made major studio to compete with, which means less movies. So not a huge fan of either of them. But I do think having one of them buy, especially Paramount, gives it a commitment to theatrical. So that would be great. And I think as much as David Ellison just seems like he's buying up all the studios. David Ellison, for background, he is the head of Skydance, and he bought Paramount. Skydance bought Paramount just this year, and now he's looking to buy Warner Brothers. And he is a fan of the movies. While I am anti Warner Brothers getting acquired, I do think Paramount would not be the worst thing in the world. And I think they actually also told David Zaslav, who's the head of Warner Brothers right now, that he would remain CEO if they bought Paramount.

Lee Pugsley
Correct. They did mention that. And I don't think that's necessarily a bad option if we have to choose one of these options. I will say when it comes to NBC Universal, that's interesting because they already share certain properties like Harry Potter with Warner Brothers for licensing. And I think if they were to acquire Warner Brothers, it kind of makes sense, actually, in some ways. But I think there would be a very interesting legal battle about licensing and ownership to what properties and merchandising and theme parks and all of that, too.

Alex Howard
Yeah, I think in terms of Universal, it'd be really interesting because actually, I can walk to Warner Brothers for my apartment, and actually I'm going to be working there for the holidays. So that'll be weird because I'll be there whenever they announce who the buyer is. But I think Universal buying them is funny because they are literally down the street from Warner Brothers. And so it's almost like, are they going to make a jet bridge? Like, from Warner Brothers to Universal. And then the other option Universal has if they buy Warner Brothers, not that anyone has mentioned this. It's just me thinking. They could extend the theme park out because right now, they're infringing on where the sound stages are. They could expand the theme park and just use the sound stages across the street at Warner Brothers. It brings a lot of options for them in terms of parks, in terms of all of these different things. Now they have properties that they could do for horror nights. Now they have Harry Potter. They don't need to... [hard to discern] anymore. So it gives Universal a lot of options.

But I do think from an accessibility point of view, Universal is the weaker one. They're getting better, but they're not the best at audio description. They're not great at putting things on Peacock with AD right away. Like the Peacock originals, they have it, but having the track travel, they're not great at. They don't put AD on their 4K disks, which I know I'm in the minority on physical media, but I'm still mad that they don't do that. I think Paramount is much better at accessibility than Universal. I would say other than Disney, who is the best at accessibility, Paramount and Warner Brothers are pretty neck and neck in terms of describing their back catalog. So I do think if Paramount were to acquire Warner Brothers, the accessibility landscape would stay the same. But I'd be afraid if Universal did, that it would get a little worse.

Lee Pugsley
That makes a lot of sense, and I validate both of those points that I do think MBC Universal is a little behind the curve, and Paramount has slight edge up. They're not always perfect, but they do a little better. So there's one other studio that is considering making a bid for Warner Brothers, and it's Netflix. I don't love this idea, but I do have to admit that they do a fantastic job of accessibility and ensuring that their movies and TV shows have audio description. That would be the advantage, I suppose, of Netflix acquiring Warner Brothers, but I really, really hate that because I don't know what would happen to the theatrical space for Warner Brothers' properties in that case.

Alex Howard
I will admit, Netflix does a fantastic job in accessibility. They're so good. But I think them acquiring Warner Brothers, honestly, could be the worst thing for the industry, not ever, but in a long time. I think that would be awful. I think... Because Netflix, I feel like they just make content. I'd say 10% of their movie put-out during the year is quality, good. They have their Oscar bate-y movies, but all the other movies are just content. They go through almost like a filter of "What do people want to see?" I'd be so afraid that they wouldn't go... If Netflix were to buy Warner Brothers and say, "Okay, we're going to keep with their theatrical, and just after they're in theaters, they cycle on Netflix." That'd be great. But I would hate to have, you know, Supergirl straight to streaming or the Weapons straight to streaming. Warner Brothers, it's a theatrical company. I would be so disappointed if Netflix bought Warner Brothers.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, that's the studio that I'm least favorable of acquiring Warner Brothers. Even if they say too, like "We are going to promote theatrical experiences more," it's going to be hard to trust that fully, seeing how they've handled theatrical windows for their own properties. And then it will be interesting because, are they just going to merge the HBO Max app into Netflix as well, or will they still be two separate apps? And those are things that are unknown right now, so we'll just wait and see on that.

Alex Howard
Yeah. I don't know if you heard that K-Pop Demon Hunters is not eligible for BAFTAs because any straight to streaming doesn't qualify. And they said, "No, we had theatrical." And they said, "No, but you had theatrical after you were already on streaming. So it doesn't count." So, yeah, I mean, Netflix is kind of learning their lesson, but also not really, because it seems like Wake Up Dead Man isn't getting... I mean, it's getting it theatrical, but not as wide as the second one did. I don't think Wake Up Dead Man is playing at AMC. So they still have trouble. They don't have a great relationship with AMC, which is the biggest theater company in the world. So we'll see what happens.

Lee Pugsley
Now, what are your thoughts on Amazon Prime or Apple acquiring Warner Brothers?

Alex Howard
So I think Apple, of the three streamers, would be my most favorable. I would rather Apple even than MBC Universal, because I think Apple is committed to theatrical. They partnered with WB already for F1, so I think they do have a good relationship with them. And it's just like, you know, Apple has that shine, that like, you know, the prestige, I guess you could say. When they put out a movie, it's something to look at. Netflix puts out a lot of movies every year. So it's like, "Oh, it's another Netflix movie." But Apple doesn't put out that many. And so I feel like if they were to acquire Warner Brothers, they could be a really good move.

Lee Pugsley
I would agree. They would actually be my number one choice, I think, for a buyer. I think that Apple does a great job of prioritizing advertising accessibility as well. You look at all of their products, they're very accessible, they're constantly making improvements, but all of their content on their Apple TV Plus platform is also accessible and has audio description. And I appreciate their commitment to ensuring that accessibility is done for everything that they do. And then to your point, too, that any time Apple puts out a TV show or a movie, even though it may not be a movie or a TV show, that's for me personally, they have a commitment to high-quality content, and they also have the budgets to get that content made and to not compromise on it.

Alex Howard
Yeah, I totally agree about the accessibility, too. I didn't even think about that. Apple is very, very accessible. I think, honestly, and this is me speculating, but if they were to acquire the Warner Brothers library, I could totally see them going back and describing their back catalog, which would be so great. I think Paramount would still be my first choice just because while I have confidence Apple would go theatrical, you know, The Gorge didn't go theatrical this year. They do have their certain things go straight to streaming. But I would hope that if Apple were to acquire Warner Brothers, they would go theatrical. In terms of Amazon Prime, they also have a commitment to theaters. I mean, next year they have Project Hail Mary, they have Crime 101, they have Masters of the Universe. They have tons of theatrical coming out next year. But while they do describe a lot, a lot of it is also TTS, which for those who don't know, that's text to speech. And they don't do a good job with their audio description, even though they do it a lot. And so I'm not a huge fan of the idea. Also, they just bought MGM. So, what, they'd have MGM and Warner Brothers. That's a lot.

Lee Pugsley
That is. And my fear would be that the Warner Brothers movies could just get lost in the shuffle.

Alex Howard
Yeah. And they also do those straight to streaming, schlock-- What did they just have? Playdate with Kevin James and the guy who plays Reacher. It was like an action-comedy movie. And they had, "Oh, God, they had that War of the Worlds movie this year, too.

Lee Pugsley
Right.

Alex Howard
So, yeah, they do a lot of the streaming schlock as well, which is like, "Okay, why are we even spending money on this?" I don't know. I guess someone must be watching it. But, yeah, I think my top choices would be Apple or Paramount.

Lee Pugsley
I would agree with that. And Apple would be my first choice. Paramount would be my second choice. So it'll be really intriguing to see how this all plays out. There's still so many unknowns, no certainty on anything in that regard other than there will be a buyer by the end of the year.

Alex Howard
Yeah, and I'm sure we will update you guys. I mean, Lee and I are entrenched in entertainment news. So if you don't hear about it as much as we do, we will definitely keep you guys updated. And let us know what you think about who should buy Warner Brothers. Let us know your favorite Stephen King adaptations, all that stuff. You can email us your thoughts. Our email is DarkRoomFilmCast@gmail.com. That is DarkRoomFilmCast@gmail.com.

Lee Pugsley
And you can also follow us on Instagram @DarkRoomFilmCast, and you can subscribe to our YouTube channel, also @DarkRoomFilmCast.

Alex Howard
And we'd also like to thank BlindCAN for helping out with editing, and All Senses Go for making captions on this episode possible.

Lee Pugsley
And we want to thank you guys for listening, and we'll see you back here next time on The Dark Room.

Alex Howard
Take care, guys.