Ep. 58: The Festival Season: Sundance & Slamdance Unpacked

Alex and Lee share their 2026 film festival experiences at the Sundance and Slamdance film festivals, recap the films they saw, and recount some fun stories. Plus, they touch on the Warner Bros. sale drama.

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Transcript

Lee Pugsley
Happy March, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of The Dark Room, where two blind cinephiles illuminate the sighted. I'm Lee Pugsley.

Alex Howard
I'm Alex Howard.

Lee Pugsley
And this is a podcast hosted by two legally blind guys for film lovers of all abilities. Hope you guys are enjoying the start of a new month. And as we get going today, we just wanted to highlight the 2026 Oscars Audio Description Roundtable that we recorded a few weeks ago. Because we're in the height of awards season and the Oscars are only a few weeks away, we wanted to make sure that you're able to check it out. It was a really great conversation with seven different audio description narrators and performers representing five of the 10 best picture Oscar nominated films.

Alex Howard
Yeah, that was a really fun conversation. I'm really glad we were able to do it again this year.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, it was really cool to have a combination of audio description narrators as well as performers, because in the past, we've only had one audio description performer on. So it was really insightful to have both the audio description narrator and the performer on from three of the five films represented there.

Alex Howard
Oh, for sure. So if you guys want to check that out, you can look at our YouTube or wherever you listen to the podcast.

Lee Pugsley
So go ahead and share with other people as well. Whether or not people are familiar with audio description, this could be a great opportunity to introduce them to this world and to help educate them as well.

Moving on, though, for today's episode, we are talking about our film festival experiences at both the Sundance Film Festival and the Slamdance Film Festival. And what's really cool about this, Alex, is it's become a yearly tradition now for the last couple of years that we have a film festival episode.

Alex Howard
And this year, especially since I was working at Sundance and you were working at Slamdance, it worked out very well.

Lee Pugsley
And one of the really significant things about this year, I think for both of us, is that we were working at these festivals and being very heavily involved in them, but we weren't necessarily in the disability space. Like, you weren't working at the Accessibility Department, and I was a programmer for Slamdance, but it wasn't in the Unstoppable block that centers on disabled filmmakers and stories. It was in the Documentary Features block. I think that's really important that we were able to get out there into other spaces so that people who haven't worked with disabled individuals had the opportunity to see us and to learn about our experiences as well.

Alex Howard
Yeah. So this year at Sundance, I was working at the library theater. My title was crowd liaison. So I was helping get everyone into the theater, load the theater, and then as they left, help exit them. And so it was really interesting to have a forward-facing, public-facing role as someone with a disability because I feel like it not only brought attention to disability to my fellow coworkers, but also literally everyone coming into the library theater in those 6 hours I was there a day saw someone with a disability working there.

Lee Pugsley
Out of curiosity, what would you say the difference was for you between this year, you worked at the library entering and exiting people. And last year, you were in the Accessibility Department over at Sundance.

Alex Howard
Yes. So last year, I was, I don't want to say isolated because I had a lot of fun last year. I was in the festival office. So I was mingling and making friends with a lot of the actual Sundance staff and handling the disability requests, which was, I mean, obviously that's near and dear to my heart. So that was a lot of fun. But this year was very much more in the volunteer community. We would load the theater, and then during the movie, sometimes they'd let us go in and watch the movie, but that was only when the screening wasn't sold out. So if it was sold out, we were just mingling with each other and talking, and I feel like I had a lot more time with the actual volunteers this year, which it has its positives and negatives of the job, but I had a lot of lot of fun this year. Definitely made a lot of friends. I had a lot of connections. It was great.

Lee Pugsley
That's awesome. I feel similar about my with Slamdance this year. One of the most impactful things for me was, once again, being a programmer in a block that didn't center on disability, because a lot of the programmers in that block, to my knowledge, have never programmed with someone who has a disability. I think that alone was a really cool opportunity because even though a lot of the documentaries that I watched didn't have anything to do with disability, I was able to still bring in my perspective of the way that I approach film, the way that I the world. And something that may not resonate with other people may have resonated with me in a very personal way. Because of that, and I think this is the beauty of having a team of programmers, you find what resonates with everyone on a universal level, but also, if there's something that one person like myself feels is very important and significant to a conversation, maybe it's worth considering that film over other films. At least opening up those discussions and allowing a perspective from someone who's disabled to be in a space that may not always have a lot of disabled people in there to help educate other people just by being present. And I think we talk about this often, but just being present at these festivals and playing whatever part we can goes a long way for people to get familiar and to normalize disability in these spaces as well.

Alex Howard
Yeah. So I do have a question for you. Do you find that... I mean, it is a lot of education, but when we are around people with disabilities, or for example, last year, I had a great time in the Accessibility Office, and I was mostly with my boss Laura and Andrew and Sarah, and they're all very disability forward and aware, and they deal with people with disabilities all the time. So they know how to interact with me. I felt like this year, I had a lot of fun at the Library Theater, too. But at first, it was a learning curve for me to figure out. Because you ask people yes or no questions, and they'll nod or shake their head. It's like, well, I can't see what they're saying, or trying to figure out how recognize people. Because this year, there are a lot more people I was interacting with in terms of volunteers, especially my peers. At the staff office, there were only so many people, and they all sat in the same desk every day, so I knew who people were. But this year, it was like we were all in different roles every day, we were all wearing the same yellow jackets. And so it was kind of hard to differentiate people at first. So I had to figure out little hacks to tell people apart. Then also when I would meet people, I just be like, Hey, I'm visually impaired. Kind of like, as I became friends with people, they got to know me and figured out my little ways to help me. But for people who don't deal with people wits disabilities all the time, you have to teach them.

Lee Pugsley
Exactly. And I think that when we talk about education here, education doesn't necessarily have to be this lecture or let me tell you everything that we know about visual impairment so that you can learn. It's more so, like you said, learning by having those conversations. For example, I would go up to people at Slamdance and would say hi to them, or they would say hi to me, and sometimes I would just ask them, Remind me of your name again? And that worked because I'm visually impaired. They could see the cane. Or if I stuck up my hand to shake someone else's hand, they would find my hand and shake it. If we were walking from one venue to another venue, I would just ask someone, Is it okay if I take your shoulder? Because that's the way that I prefer to be guided. I know everyone has their own preferences on what being guided looks like. But just little hacks like that, like you were saying, help teach people about our way of life. And once again, every disabled person and every visually impaired person or blind person is going to have a different way of doing things and operating. So it's definitely not a one size fits all deal. But I think it still is an organic way to educate people, once again, just by being present and just by connecting with other people. And in life in general, that's what we're all about is human connection. And if we're open to human connection from all walks of life, there's so much that we can learn from one another.

Alex Howard
Yeah. And even for me, I was basically a greeter at the door of the theater. And so people would come in from the line, and then I would point them in the right direction of security. So a lot of times, I would not be able to tell who was working for us and who was actually a patron. And so I would literally tell everyone who walked in the door where to go. And some of the time I'd realize, Oh, they work for us. I shouldn't have said anything. But it just became known that I'm just doing my job. At first, people were a little surprised that I was telling them where to go because they worked there. And then it just became like, Oh, he just doesn't realize it's me. It's fine.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah. And things like that, at least for me, are chill. I get it. And I understand that we're all growing together. We're all in this together. And I always say that If you've never been in my shoes, I can't expect you to know everything about me and how I operate. So it's okay. There's going to be little quirks that happen along the way, and sometimes I just have to laugh about them for myself, too. Like if I misidentify someone or I say something to someone that I thought was someone else, it's funny.

Alex Howard
Oh, for sure. Yeah, it's definitely something you should laugh about. Yeah.

Lee Pugsley
And I think one of the things that I think both of us have grown in over time, and we probably still have a ways to grow, is just not taking everything so seriously, but taking it in the spirit that it's meant, but also being willing to advocate for ourselves when we need to, not just being a doormat and being a joke at someone else's expense, but really taking agency for ourselves. I think that we've come a long way in our journeys with that.

Alex Howard
Oh, yeah, definitely. I never felt like anyone was ever laughing at me or anything. If anything, I would poke fun at myself at certain points.

Lee Pugsley
And to be clear for me as well, I never felt like anyone at Slamdance was laughing at me either. I wouldn't be the one also that would make a joke about myself, and then we could all laugh about it together.

Alex Howard
Yeah.

Lee Pugsley
Now, in addition to you working at the library, what else sticks out to you about this year's Sundance experience? I know it was a significant year for Sundance, and I'll let you talk a little bit more about that and any highlights that you have from the experience as a whole.

Alex Howard
Yeah. So it was funny because the first half of the festival, I was working at 7:00 AM every day. That was my call time. Get up at 5:30 to get down there into the theater, and the sun doesn't rise till 7:30, so you're walking in the dark. And then it's like you work till 1:00 and then you go to movies. But then halfway through the festival, you do the afternoon shift. And so I work at 1:00, but then I'm like, I get off at 8:00 and I don't have time to go to a movie. So I'm still getting up at 5:30, 6:00 to go to movies before my shift. So it was really interesting because there were times I'd walk down to the library when it was dark out, and I wouldn't be working. I would just be going to a movie. I'm like, I would never do this in LA. But this is for the love of the game, you're at Sundance, I'm not going to not go to a screening at 08:00 AM or whatever. So it was definitely interesting how much you sacrifice, whether that be for sleep or for, you know... You really have to make decisions on how you're going to get to certain movies. So that was really interesting.

Lee Pugsley
In my festival experience, I've come to the conclusion that sleep just doesn't happen as regularly, and I've accepted that now.

Alex Howard
Oh, for sure. And that's where the festival flu comes in. That's why everyone gets sick. But the other thing about this year was I definitely felt more social this year. I think the volunteer party was handled a lot better this year. We were able to get everyone in. There was enough food, there was enough everything. So that was a lot of fun. And then I actually felt like I met my group and went to the after-party. It was a lot of fun socially. Last year was fun socially, too, but this year was different. I felt like I really was able to make a lot more friends and do a lot more. Because I felt like last year was a lot of getting used to things. And so since I knew where things were this year, it was a lot easier to relax and socialize and come into my own.

Lee Pugsley
In a similar yet different way, I had a similar experience at Slamdance this year, where last year was really great, and I met a lot of really really great people as well. But this year, it just seemed like there was an ease of connection with people. Last year felt a little awkward for me at certain times, and that also could be because I was getting familiar with a new area as well and trying to figure out where everything was. Where this year we had it at the Director's Guild and Landmark Theater in Los Angeles in West Hollywood. They were just a few blocks away from each other. Maybe it's because I know that area and it was more familiar to me that I felt more comfortable to navigate and to just be myself because I wasn't adjusting to a totally new environment like the studio that we had it in last year, which was a great location as well. But this year, I found myself being a lot more social than last year, too. It's funny that our situations and experiences align in those ways together as well.

Alex Howard
It was funny because I had people coming up to me on shift and even at the party and being like, Hey, I remember you from last year. How's it going? That was really cool because it taught me to recognize people at first. It was great that people were coming up to me. Even some of the managers in some of the theaters, too, when I'd go to see a movie, they'd be like, Oh, yeah. Hey, I remember you from last year. I got you, and stuff like that. It was great.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I can relate to that as well. There were people that were coming up to me, and they would say the same thing as like, Oh, I remember you from last year. And it's just crazy that from year to year, it seems like a long time, but at the same time, it didn't seem like that long at all. It seems like, I saw you yesterday.

Alex Howard
Yeah, definitely.

Lee Pugsley
Now, in terms of the films that you were able to see at Sundance, I'd be interested in hearing about your slate or whatever parts of that slate you want to highlight.

Alex Howard
Yeah, so I could talk about some of my favorite films that I saw. The Invite was definitely a highlight for me. That was Olivia Wilde's new movie. She directed it and she stars in it, co-written by Rashida Jones. And it stars Olivia Wilde, Seth Rogen, Edward Norton, and Penelope Cruz. And A24 actually bought it for, I think it was like 10 or 14 million. That was a very buzzy movie. I was going to go to the premiere, but I was sick that weekend, and I figured it would be way too hard to get in. So I actually ended up seeing it towards the end of the festival. I think it was one of my last days. It was one of those screenings where I got up at 6:30 AM to walk down to see it. And it was so cool. It didn't have audio description yet, but it will when it comes out. But I had heard from people that it was like a play, so I figured I'd be fine without the AD. And it was so good. It's like, very quippy, the dialogue's hilarious. I'm excited to see it again when it comes out with AD because I feel like there was maybe one thing I missed, but for the most part, I pretty much got it. It was fantastic.

Lee Pugsley
Based on what you told me, I'm looking forward to seeing that movie. As you know, I like films that are dialogue-driven, and the cast sounds great, so I think I'm going to like this one.

Alex Howard
Yeah, I'm really hoping it catches on when it comes out and hoping it would probably get some screenplay noms, at least if the Spirit Awards or something like that. Then I also saw a documentary called Joybubbles. It was actually produced by Will Butler, who Sheridan O'Donnell mentioned on our podcast a couple of weeks back. I actually ran into Will just on Park Avenue. I was leaving a restaurant, and this guy was like, Hey, nice cane. And I looked up and he was there, and he also had a cane. So yeah, we chatted. And he is the producer of this movie Joybubbles, which is about a blind man wh,o he can whistle. And it was back in the day when the phones would rely on the tone to know where to direct the calls. So he could whistle the different phone tones and get free long distance calls. He would charge his roommates in college a dollar to make a long distance call. It was amazing. It was a great documentary.

This was actually the first time that Sundance has ever done an open audio description screening where they play the audio description in the theater. I didn't go to that one. There were two of those. I wasn't able to go to either of them because I was working, but I went to the premiere of the movie. That was really cool to be there and be there for the Q&A. They actually had used, all the audio description devices were used for the theater during that screening. It was really cool to be there for that.

Lee Pugsley
I'm really looking forward to this one as well. Even at Slamdance, a lot of people were talking about that one, so it's definitely getting some buzz.

Alex Howard
Yeah. Then another one I really liked, it's called The Gallerist. It was one of the more high-profile ones. It was Natalie Portman, Jenna Ortega, Zach Galifianakis is in it, Da'Vine Joy Randolph from The Holdovers, the movie you really like, and Charli XCX is also in it. This was a crazy movie. I barely got in because it was such in high demand. I got my ticket, and then I went across the street to eat dinner, and this guy sat down at the bar next to me, and I was like... He said he was going to a movie, and I was like, Are you going to The Gallerist? He was like, Well, actually, I'm the associate editor for the Gallerist, and so I have to go there early to test the movie. We started talking, we ended up eating dinner together. He was really cool. Yeah, it's just like, You never know who you're going to meet at Sundance. That was cool to have dinner with him, and he was telling me about some of the... There are some long shots in it, and he was telling me about editing it. And so when I went to see it, I connected with him afterwards, too. But it was a really fun movie. It's not going to be for everyone, but it's definitely an experience to watch.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I know that you have really been hailing its praises, so I will definitely be checking that one out as soon as it's released in theaters.

Alex Howard
Yeah, so there were a couple of other ones. I saw The Last First: Winter K2, which had audio description. That was a mountain climbing movie about climbing to the second highest peak in the world in the winter. That was a pretty harrowing documentary. I got to see that at the Eccles Theater. The Gallerist also had audio descriptions. That was pretty cool. I also saw this movie Tuner with Dustin Hoffmann. That one had an audio description. It was  kind of like Baby Driver for the first half, which was cool. But I really like the end of Tuner. It was really great. Definitely watch out for that one. It has a really good... I don't want to say disability representation because I don't think the actor has a disability, but some disability themes that are really good. So MRC, which produced... They were the original Knives Out distributors. They had three movies at the festival that were all audio-described. It was the Gallerist, Tuner, and they also had the Only Living Pickpocket in New York, which I also saw. That was also pretty good with John Turturro and Tatiana Maslany. So definitely keep an eye out for those, especially since they're already in distribution, they should be coming out.

Lee Pugsley
Out of the movies you watched, do you see any one of them making making your top 10 at the end of the year as of now or has a good chance to make your top 10? I know last year you saw Twinless, and that made your top 10 of 2025. And I feel like there's always one or two that you're championing the whole way through the year, and oftentimes will end up on your top list.

Alex Howard
Yeah, I feel like The Invite could make it in my top 10. I'm definitely curious to see it when it comes out and see the few things that I miss without the AD, but it definitely has potential to be in my top 10.

Lee Pugsley
Nice. I'll be very excited to see if it can carry through till the end of the year. Obviously, we have 10 more months to go, but if a film is strong enough, it definitely can hold up.

Alex Howard
Yeah. I think the last one I want to mention, it's called When a Witness Recants. It was a documentary about three Black men who were put in prison for a crime they didn't do, and then the witness who helped put them in prison recanted a statement. It was one of their friends who was the witness. The big hook for the documentary is that at the end of the doc, there's a 20-minute sit down with the three people who were put in prison and the witness and them talking to each other. That was something I had never seen before. That was really, really cool. I think it was an HBO documentary. So that should be on HBO, I would hope, in the near future. Definitely check that one out, too. That one had an audio description as well.

Lee Pugsley
That sounds really interesting for sure. And going back to one of the things that you mentioned, you never know who you're going to meet at Sundance or any film festival for that matter. I know that you have a really fun story about someone you did meet. Why don't you let the listeners in on that?

Alex Howard
Yeah. So I had, I think, one of my goals this year, because it was the last year in Park City, and I've only been at Sundance, this was my third year. But I was like, I don't know, they always talk about Sundance parties and just seeing big deal people in this small town in Park City. And I was like, I want to have one of those experiences for my last year there. And so after the volunteer party, we had an after-party at the hotel. It was an unofficial thing. But they were doing a SAW screening up at a theater next door. I was like, Well, I'm not going to go to the movie because I love SAW, but I've seen it a bunch. And so, I was like, But I want to go to the Q&A. It was a SAW legacy screening. I I went up there around the time the movie ended, and I was waiting. So I went to the Q&A with James Wan and Leigh Whannell were both there, the writer and director of SAW. I saw the Q&A, which was awesome. They had, actually, a video that I should put up on my Instagram about, someone asked a question, Why do people turn to horror for comfort? Or if they have trauma or if they just are having a hard time, why do they turn to horror? So that was really interesting, their answer to that.

And then after the Q&A, I just walked... Because after Q&A, people just stormed the stage. I just walked up there, and I ended up in front of Leigh Whannell and James Wan. So I shook their hand and thanked them for making such a great movie. That was really cool. Then I was walking back to the party just on cloud nine. I was like, Oh, my God, I met James Wan and Leigh Whannell. This is insane. Then I went to the party and they had the SAW puppet at the SAW screening. So someone came up to me at the party and they were like, Hey, were you at the SAW event? I was like, Yeah. And they were like, The puppet is over in the corner. So I went over and they had Billy the Puppet from SAW, and he had a little Sundance badge. It was super cool. I took a picture with him, and then I went up to someone, just a random person, and I was like, Hey, do you see James Wan, and Leigh Whannell in this room in the bar? Because the puppet's here, and the puppet came with them. He was like, No, I don't see them, but I see Anthony Mackie, who plays the new Captain America, and he was Falcon in the Marvel Universe as well. And I was like, No way. They're like, Yeah, he's standing by the guy in the green sweater. The guy in the green sweater was my theater manager or assistant manager. So I went up to my theater manager and I was like, Hey. I was just talking to him and I saw Anthony turn and walk the other way. I was like, Oh, that's definitely him. And so I was like, Hey, do you know who was standing behind you? He was like, No. I was like, It's Captain America. He was like, No, it wasn't. I was like, Yeah, he was standing right there. Sure enough, it was Anthony Mackie. We were mingling with people randomly. Then I ended up literally running into this woman. I was like, Hi. She's like, Hi. I was like, What brings you to Park City? She was like, Oh, my husband directed Half Nelson, which is a movie with Ryan Gosling. It was Ryan Gosling's first Oscar nomination, and Anthony Mackie is in that movie, too.

So I guess they had a Half Nelson legacy screening, and that's why they were both there. She was like, Do you want to meet my husband? I was like, Sure. We walked over, she introduced me to her husband. Her husband is Ryan Fleck, and he directed Half Nelson and Captain Marvel, a bunch of other movies. And so we go up and she's like, Hey, this is my husband, Ryan. She's like, And that's Anthony. I turned on my right and Anthony Mackie standing right next to me. I was like, Oh, my God. I'm in a conversation with this big director and Captain America. This is crazy. That's what I was thinking. I was like, Hey, What are you guys working on right now? Ryan was like, Oh, I'm writing the screenplay. Then I turned to Anthony and I was like, I know what you're working on, and I know you can't talk about it because he's in the new Avengers movie. And I was like, I know you can't talk about it of the Marvel snipers. And I kind of motioned above me and he laughed. Then we kept talking and I told Anthony, I was like, Hey, I really like the movie The Night Before, which we've talked about on the podcast before. I told I'm like, I love that there's Jewish holiday representation in the movie because not many movies bring up Hanukah. And he was like, I wasn't in that movie. I was like, That was definitely you in that movie. I think he was messin' with me, but the director was even like, Dude, that was you. Then we were continuing to talk, and then I could tell they wanted to wrap up. I was like, All right, well, nice to meet you guys. I didn't want to ask for a picture. There was a point where I was sliding out my phone. I was like, No, I'm not going to be that guy and ask for a picture at this party, and I'm not going to do that. I was like, Nice to meet you guys. I shook their hand and I turned towards Anthony and I put my hand on his shoulder and I was like, On your left. And he was like, You are on my left. And the director was like, Damn, that's a reference right there. And I just walked away. I was like, because that's something that Falcon says, is, On your left. And so I was like, I have to get this in there. I'm not going to ask for a picture, but I have to tell Falcon, On your left. So yeah, that was really cool.

Lee Pugsley
That's the epitome of a Sundance moment right there. And that's a really fun, really cool story.

Alex Howard
No, I'm super excited to tell my son about it when he gets a little older because he's going to be super into Marvel. He already loves Spider-Man, but it It'd be cool to tell him that I met Captain America.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, that's really cool. And it's cool that you can share that story with your son as well. Once he gets into Captain America, he'll be so excited about that.

Alex Howard
Oh, for sure. But Lee, why don't you tell us about the Slamdance and the films that you saw over there?

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, so I'll go through some of the highlights of them. To be honest, I was doing a panel there. I was doing Q&A's for film screenings that I was moderating, and I was kind of all over the place. It was hard to catch a lot of films. They just opened a virtual portal, so I'll be watching a lot of films that people were talking about on there. The ones that I will highlight, though, there was an opening night screening of this film called The Projectionist by this director named Alex Rockwell, and he's an indie film director. I think he's done about nine or 10 features now. I don't remember the exact number, but I think the thing that was most significant about that from an independent filmmaking point of view is he shot a lot of that film on an iPhone, and it was very good. It was a mixture of drama, action, comedy, a little bit of everything, and it had a really fun cast of characters. I just really appreciated it from a filmmaking point of view that he was able to get it done on a low budget because in today's world, that's not easy. It's a big accomplishment when you're able to do that. So as a filmmaker, I found that film very inspiring.

Another film that I watched that really stuck out to me was called Brailled It. And this film actually did have open audio description as well because the audio description was a part of the film itself. This was a really cool concept. So it focuses on three kids who were given cameras to put around their neck. They're completely blind, and they were going to this Braille competition in Los Angeles for a weekend. So for 72 hours, they had these cameras around their neck. What is being captured is what the cameras are seeing. You very rarely see their faces or their whole bodies unless they're walking by a mirror or something that shows their reflection. So you're seeing a lot of desks and papers and whatever scenery is right in front of them and everything. It was such a unique way of making a film, showing it from their perspective. But I found it very immersive, and you really felt like you got to know these kids. You got to know their personalities, and you also got a sense of what audio description is as well. And I didn't even know that there was a Braille competition, but there is a Braille competition where these kids come and they're graded on speed, accuracy, and they have all these different tests and things that they have to do. So it was actually very educational and enlightening to me as well.

Alex Howard
That's really awesome. I wanted to try and see this, and I wasn't able to get to it, but it sounds really cool, and especially because the audio description is baked in. I'm really interested in seeing it.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I do hope that you have a chance to see it. And then two other films that I want to highlight. These were documentary features, and I helped program these films. So for the listener out there, how programming works is you have to watch a bunch of different films, and then you have meetings where you have to deliberate on which films should get into the festival and why. I can't talk about the specifics of that. But I can say that last year, in 2025, from August till November, I watched about 70 feature film documentaries. So I definitely got a widespread of a variety of subjects. And it was really great to just see what independent filmmakers are doing in the different subjects that were very insightful for me. But there was a film called A Free Daughter of Free Kyrgyzstan, about this woman who lives in Kyrgyzstan who decided to make music and put that music out on the Internet. But there's a lot of danger. There's a lot of freedoms that people over there don't have. It was just shedding light on the experiences of these women over in Kyrgyzstan. Very powerful, very impactful.

And then the last documentary feature that I want to highlight is this documentary called Kings of Venice, which takes place in Venice Beach, California. It centers on a group of paddleball players that have this turf over in Venice that they've had for years. Paddleball is a dying sport, but they're keeping it alive, and they're actively involved there. They've really established a great community. And these pickleball players come in and try to take over the turf. So it's about them defending their turf. But you have a lot of larger than life personalities, and it's so entertaining and ridiculously over the top. But when I watched that film last August, that was one of the first documentaries I watched. I was thinking, this film will play very well at Slamdance. People are going to be buzzing about it. They're going to be very entertained. I do think it has a chance at winning the Audience Choice Award. I was really happy that it actually did win the Audience Choice Award as well, and that my intuition on that was right. If you get a chance to see it when it gets wider distribution, I know they're searching for that now, highly recommend it. It's just unbelievable that some of these personalities in it are real people, but it's also really entertaining as well.

Alex Howard
Yeah, I think when they gave it the Audience Award, they said it was one of the most fun films at Slamdance. That's another one that I wanted to see because I know you had been raving about it.

Lee Pugsley
It was really cool to be able to do the Q&A for that one, to meet the filmmakers afterwards, and to ask them questions about the filmmaking process, because I was such a champion of that film, and it's always fun when you're able to meet the people behind the art that you love.

Alex Howard
So, how was that for you, moderating the Q&A? I wasn't able to go, but were you... I mean, eerily, I don't think you get nervous for that thing. But were you nervous? How was it when you opened it up for questions from the audience? Did someone help you see the hands? How did that go?

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, that's a great question in and of itself. I will say I want to highlight the accessibility of Slamdance and the way that they care about disability inclusion. When I was doing the Q&A, my biggest concern was, will I be able to see the raised hands in the audience for questions? And will I be able to find my way down to the front with the microphone? And will I know when to get there and everything? Fortunately, there was an accessibility coordinator on site or the venue manager. One of them was always in the theater with me and cued me in on where I was supposed to be, when I was supposed to be there. They also kept track of time and let me know how much time we had left for the Q&A session, and they were the ones that identified the audience questions as well. So I really appreciate that I was just left to my own devices to try to figure it out and stumble through it. And it was fun. I enjoy asking questions, as you know, Alex, and the question part of it was fun. I just was trying to make sure that I wasn't the one doing all the talking and just asking the questions. I really wanted to make sure that the audience got their platform to ask the questions that they wanted to as well.

Alex Howard
That's so cool. The thing I did see at Slamdance was the Shorts Block for Unstoppable, the disability portion of it. I know you had a really good short film in the block. Do you want to talk about that?

Lee Pugsley
Sure. I was an actor in a film this year called Murphy's Ranch, which is a real place that used to exist in LA in the 1930s, 1940s. It was a neo-Nazi compound of types that was in the Santa Monica Hills. And so, the film that I was in is about these two brothers who work investigating swimming pools and looking for leaks in them. And so when we go to this house, we uncover this plot of the man who owns the house that's trying to basically brainwash a foster kid that he's taken into custody, and we have to go try to save the day. The most significant thing about this film for me was that the character that my director, Mikey, had written was never supposed to be visually impaired. But he had met me at a film festival a few years ago, and he went home and he actually retooled the script and adapted that character to be visually impaired. For disability representation, that meant a lot to me. For what does authentic storytelling mean and how do we do it? I think this is a great example of not just shoehorning disability in somewhere, but letting the text of a film or a piece dictate, Oh, yeah, this naturally fits with what I'm going for. And this not only fits, but it can elevate the film as well. I'm really proud of that film. I'm really proud of the crew that I was able to work with. Everyone was so great. It was such a great experience. I'm also really happy, Alex, that you were able to see that film, too.

Alex Howard
Oh, yeah, it was so good. I really like that it wasn't necessarily about disability. It was like there's a character with a disability and where the film is about something cool in itself, but it's not so focused on that.

Lee Pugsley
There were also some other really good films in the Unstoppable block. There was this film that you watched called Everhand, which one of my friends Lee Cleaveland is his name. He did it for the Easter Seals Disability Film Challenge, and it was really cool that it won Best Unstoppable Short at the awards ceremony for Slamdance as well.

Alex Howard
Yeah, that one was really good. I really liked the style of that one. There was one called Blindsided that I really liked as well. It was like a monster movie, but it was basically showing this woman's face the entire movie. She's blind. And so you follow her through the house after this asteroid lands and you hear the monster. It's all about sound design because you can't really see beyond her face. Everything's blurry behind her. I really, really enjoyed that movie. I got to talk to the filmmakers after that. So that was cool. But yeah, the Unstoppable block of shorts this year was really good.

Lee Pugsley
For those that don't know what Unstoppable is, it's something that the creator Juliet Romeo founded a few years ago. I believe it was around 2020 or 2021, she went to one of the founders of the festival and just asked why there isn't more disability representation in the lineup of films there. They thought about it, they didn't have a good answer, and then they decided to create what's called the Unstoppable block, which is a block of films that is centered on stories that feature disabled characters and also involve disabled filmmakers. I think those are the two criteria of that one person on the team, kind of like the Disability Film Challenge, that someone from the team has to have a disability, whether in front of the camera or behind the camera, and that there is disability representation on screen within those films in some way. I think that's really important because a lot of film festivals don't have a block like that. I think that what Slamdance has done is created a really good blueprint for other festivals to emulate, and hopefully they will.

Alex Howard
Yeah, and they also do a great job of having the two panels focused on disability, the one you were on with Nic Novicki, which I'll let you talk about. But there's also with Ashley Eakin and Sheridan and John Lawson. It was like three out of the four people who were on the panel who have been on the podcast. So I also went to that panel to say hi to everyone.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I really wish I could have been at that panel as well, especially because we know the people you just mentioned. But yeah, doing my panel was really fun as well. I think that, once again, it was the idea of... It was called Not A Niche, and it was the idea of getting disability beyond just the disability space and getting it into other places within a festival and within programming, within the films that are shown in different blocks. Basically, what we were talking about at the beginning of this episode, and I think that the only way to do that is just to continue having these conversations.

Alex Howard
Oh, yeah, for sure. No, the conversations that Slamdance continues to have is really ground-breaking.

Lee Pugsley
100%. Well, it sounds like that both of us had really good festival experiences this year, and I was really happy that you were able to be a part of Slamdance and to be able to attend some of it as well.

Alex Howard
Yeah, and it's really funny. I feel like it's really great to be able to go to film festivals, which is a place I love anyway, but then also have these great interactions with people with disabilities.

Lee Pugsley
I totally agree with that. Well, moving on now, let's talk about some very pressing news that just came off the press within the entertainment world. I'll let you go ahead and introduce this topic, Alex.

Alex Howard
Yeah, so I know a couple of months ago, we talked about the impending sale of Warner Brothers. And at that time, we were saying that Netflix getting Warner Brothers would have been the worst thing for the industry. And since then, Netflix had seemingly bought Warner Brothers, and I had really come around to the idea of Netflix. I did a 180, and Netflix owning Warner Brothers seemed like a great idea because there wasn't much overlap. There weren't going to be as many layoffs. Netflix was going to use Warner Brothers' connections in the theatrical market to put some their movies in theaters. They were respecting the theatrical window, at least that's what they were saying. And they were going to leave Warner Brothers to do their own thing, to continue making their movies, and then just funnel into Netflix and have seemingly two separate companies. They were obviously going to overlap some things, but they were going to leave Warner Brothers to run their own thing. So that's how it was going to be until last week when Paramount has been fighting tooth and nail to Warner Brothers, and they were like... Basically, Warner Brothers said, Okay, you can have a week to give us your best and final offer. And Netflix was like, All right, that's fine. Do your worst. And Paramount came back with $31 a share, and Netflix was like, We're good. You can have it.

And so now Paramount is buying Warner Brothers. And after all of the things that I was okay with, with Netflix, not too thrilled about Paramount because there's going to be so many layoffs now because there is so much overlap. And I think my biggest fear is that basically, Warner Brothers will become like Fox because when Disney bought Fox, you know, Fox was coming out with 8-10 movies a year, and now Fox comes out with three or four, if we're lucky, a year. So they've kind of taken a back seat. I'm really hoping that doesn't happen with Warner Brothers because Warner Brothers had a great year last year. They had seven movies at number one with over $40 million a movie. That was a record. And so what? Now we're going to shrink it down? I don't know. I'm really curious to see how all this is going to work. If they're going to keep Pam Abdy and De Luca, if they're going to keep James Gunn and Peter Safran, I really hope they do. But Paramount getting Warner Brothers is a totally different ball game. Now, this was just announced yesterday. So I think there are a lot of unanswered questions. But Lee, how are you feeling about all this?

Lee Pugsley
It was interesting because it was such a big swing. Because I'd kind of like you, come to the conclusion that, Okay, Netflix is going to get Warner Brothers. Maybe it's not ideal, but it's not going to be the end of the world. And I really didn't expect Paramount to come back and to get the bid. I didn't think that Warner would accept it, actually. I thought they were still going to stick with Netflix. But I do agree with you that I hope Warner Brothers doesn't become the Fox of Paramount like Disney did with Fox. I hope that there's still separation of Paramount and Warner Brothers' properties, but I really could just see it all merging together and getting blended and Warner Brothers losing its brand, which scares me a little bit.

Alex Howard
Yeah, and I'm hoping... I mean, there's such historic backlots, too. Are they going to keep both backlots? I mean, I don't... I mean, I hope so. Because so many... I mean, I've done both studio tours. They're both so historic. I live, I can walk to Warner Brothers from my apartment. So I really hope they don't get rid of that backlot specifically, but it'll be really interesting to see where things go. From an accessibility standpoint, I mean, it's not horrible because they're both really good companies for accessibility. They both have been describing their back catalog, a fair amount. I think it's like a 50/50 shot when they announced a 4K of an older movie, pretty much 50/50 on whether it's going to get AD or not, which is pretty good, considering some companies it's almost nonexistent. On that front, it's great, but it's just there are so many other things to consider with theatrical and the whole CNN aspect of everything, there's a lot to go into it. But yeah, it's a complete 180 from Netflix buying it, which everyone had accepted, to now Paramount, and everyone's like, Okay, how is it going to work now?

Lee Pugsley
There's still a lot of unknowns about what's actually going to happen, and I think the repercussions of this, whether positive or negative, we're not going to see them for a while, and I hope that they're good. But I'm also bracing myself for something else to happen and something maybe a little more drastic that merges both of them together and hopefully doesn't dissolve the Warner brand, but maybe diminishes it. I'm prepared for that, even though I really don't want to happen.

Alex Howard
Yeah. I think they'll keep... Just like Fox has their brand on certain movies, they'll probably keep the logo up. But are we only going to have event movies now? Are we only going to have DC and Harry Potter, the iconic movies? I would love for them to keep doing things like Weapons, things like Sinners. It'll be interesting.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I think I was just so caught off guard that that actually happened as quickly as it did. It was looking like in the last couple of days, it's like, Oh, Netflix is for sure getting it. There's no way that Paramount is going to win their bid. And then at the very last minute, it was like the 11th hour, Paramount comes through and everything just switches on and done.

Alex Howard
Yeah. And they gave Netflix the opportunity to counter offer, and Netflix was like, We're good. (laughs) And now Paramount has to pay the... Because there was a fee that Netflix... If the Netflix deal fell through, Warner Brothers had to pay them a certain amount. And so now Paramount has to pay that as well.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah. It'll be, like I said, I need to know more before I can make a full decision on all of this, but it's definitely something that was worth bringing up and definitely something to keep an eye on.

Alex Howard
Yeah. I mean, obviously, our Ideal... I don't want to speak for you, but I think our ideal situation would be Warner Brothers stays on its own. But we knew that wasn't going to happen a while ago. So, yeah, we will definitely keep you guys updated. I mean, this is the biggest story in years in entertainment. So, yeah.

Lee Pugsley
And if you guys have any thoughts on that, we'd love to hear your thoughts on how you feel about Paramount buying Warner Brothers. Also, if you've been in the film festival space, we'd love to hear experiences about that and to see what it was like navigating that space, the accessibility components of the space, or fun stories you have from film festivals yourself. You can email us at DarkRoomFilmCast@gmail.com. Once again, that's DarkRoomFilmCast@gmail.com. And you can also follow us on Instagram @DarkRoomFilmCast, and subscribe to our YouTube channel @DarkRoomFilmCast.

Alex Howard
We'd like to thank Matt Lauterbach and All Senses Go for making captions of these episodes possible, as well as BlindCAN that is helping out with editing.

Lee Pugsley
Well, thank you guys so much for listening once again, and be sure to check out the Oscars audio description roundtable from 2026, and we'll see you back here next time on The Dark Room.

Alex Howard
Take care, guys.