Ep. 62: Close Up With Joanne DiVito, Live Audio Describer

Alex and Lee chat with Joanne DiVito, a former Broadway dancer and live audio describer for performing arts events in the Los Angeles area. In our conversation, Joanne recounts some of her previous experiences as a performer and how it prepared her to step into the world of live audio description.

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Transcript

Lee Pugsley
What's up everyone and welcome back to another episode of The Dark Room, where two blind cinephiles illuminate the sighted. I'm Lee Pugsley.

Alex Howard
I'm Alex Howard.

Lee Pugsley
And this is a podcast hosted by two legally blind guys for film lovers of all abilities. And today we're going to take a slight deviation from talking about film and we're going to go into the world of live performance. We have a very special guest here, Joanne DiVito, who is part of Audio Description Los Angeles. She is a live audio describer, and she's also been a performer on Broadway, a dancer, and a choreographer. Welcome to the show, Joanne. It's a pleasure to have you.

Joanne DiVito
Oh, I'm so happy to be here. Thank you, Lee. Thank you.

Lee Pugsley
And we're so excited to just dive in to kind of hear about your background within performing and how that's led you to audio description, as well as dissecting some of the nuts and bolts of what you do as a live audio describer. I know that we've had some people from your team on the show before, and we always like to start off by asking our guests, how did you get into audio description? And for you specifically, how did you transfer from performance to audio description, and how did your background help you when you got into live audio description?

Joanne DiVito
Yes. Well, originally I started out as a ballet dancer, of all things, and studied at Ballet [indistinct] Theater, and that was my trajectory. And I was going to go into ballet, and I got a Broadway show instead. And as I said, it's basically— it became a fork in the road. And so I went on to do— I worked with Richard Rodgers and Ethel Merman and Irving Berlin, and it was just a blessed career. For about 10 years. And then I moved to California and became a choreographer for 25 years. So it was an incredible career, but I was a dancer and, you know, dancers have a short life, even though I had gone a long time. And I was in my, probably in my late 40s when I decided to retire. And became the director of career transition for dancers. So I actually had a bridge to the rest of my life, which was eventually, in my retirement, I actually found audio describing. And the way I found it is Deborah Lewis, who is our boss, actually, she started Audio Description Los Angeles, was in my choir. We were singing together. And I kept on seeing her at the theater all the time because I write reviews.

And I said, "So, Deborah, what do you do?" And she said, "I'm an audio describer." And I said, "Please explain what that is." And then she explained. And I said, "I want to do that. I want to do that." Because as a kid, I was— I don't know if I would call me low-sighted, but I was practically blind until I went to college when I discovered how blind I actually was and had an operation. And it was phenomenal to be able to see. So I thought, I really want to reach out and be able to do this because I love the theater and I love the patrons. And I just wanted to describe what I was seeing – eventually – that I could actually see. So it became this lovely career for me beside— and I do do other things. I'm a professor over at Cal State Northridge, and I write reviews for LA Dance Chronicle, and I judge dancers now. So I have 4 jobs. It's amazing. And I go, "How do I do this?" But one of my favorites, of course, is being an audio describer because I love the patrons. I love to meet them.

And part of being an audio describer is to speak in very short sentences, you know, sometimes just a word to describe what's going on onstage. And so when I finally get to meet the patrons, I can actually talk to them in full sentences, and it's very, very fun. And they're always training me, too. They're always telling me how I could be a better audio describer. I've been doing it for... I think I got trained just before the pandemic, and now I'm an old-timer, kind of.

Alex Howard
Do you remember what your first audio description was? Play?

Joanne DiVito
Uh, it was, uh, yes, it was a Shakespeare play. It was Richard III. And it was— and I was so terrified because to actually speak out loud and describe everything that was going on, that was amazing. Over at Noise Within [sic]. What is that wonderful play that, you know, it's just a comedy, but there was so many doors going in and out, and we were just having an amazing time trying to describe everything that was going on on stage. Because the more that's going on on stage, the more important it is for you to focus the attention on the proper thing. That actually tells the story, you know? So yeah, Richard III. Woo! Scary.

Lee Pugsley
That's a very good segue into the next question that we're curious about. Coming from a performance background then, do you ever find yourself thinking like a performer? And obviously, you know, there's a difference between being a performer in live theater or dance versus doing live audio description. But do you ever find yourself thinking like a performer? And if so, how does that influence what you know and what you choose to describe?

Joanne DiVito
That's such a good question. Because I'm a dancer, of course, there's a whole terminology that you learn. And working on stage or Broadway, there's stage terms also. So the first thing that I go for is the old stuff that I know. You know, is that an arabesque? Is that a grand jeté? Is that a what? Or is that, you know, stage left or stage right? And I want to go to those terms, but I always have to remember really rethink how I'm going to describe it so it makes sense to someone who doesn't know any of those terms or who's a novice at— I describe it as a real thing, like movement to the left, undulating, you know, running, running, leaping, turning. And so it becomes really important to translate. So I'm learning a different language as an audio describer than as a dancer, as a director. It's different. So I learned a lot of different languages. And because of that, it really makes me seriously concentrate on how I'm going to make it an emotional experience for the patron. Like, very often— well, I did Giselle which is an emotional ballet. It's very emotional.

And how I was going to convey the movement and the emotionality of the characters and who they are and what they're doing. So, ballet is a very difficult thing to describe. So, to translate that is an exciting— It's very challenging, which is what I love.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I can imagine the challenge in that, especially, you know, coming from that performer background of like thinking of terminology that we know as performers, like stage left, stage right, upstage, downstage. And even as a dancer, knowing all those different ballet or choreography terminologies, different types of combos or moves that the patron may not understand and really kind of having to have that like learning curve or that adjustment to think, how do I simplify this so that the audience member understands what's going on.

Joanne DiVito
Yes, exactly. So when you're previewing, and we always, we usually have one preview that we see, we take notes, and then thank goodness for YouTube. Sometimes they have the ballet. So you look at it and you say, okay, how would I describe her lifting her arm, bringing it to her head, and fainting? Or, you know, however, however I wanted to describe it. And then it's always thinking in terms of pedestrian movement so that it communicates. It's a... Very challenging but very rewarding. At the end, you just feel like you've done an entire ballet in a different way.

Lee Pugsley
Now, there's one thing that I wanted to touch on really quickly that you talked about with the emotion of a performance that whether it's a ballet or another piece of live performance, it could even be a concert or a piece of theater, that I can imagine just because we're all human and live performance can be very moving. Do you ever find yourself getting emotionally involved with a performance as you're describing? And when you do, how do you navigate that? And can you think of any examples of when that happened?

Joanne DiVito
Oh my gosh, I can. I really can. I'll never forget the first time I actually described Wicked. And that second— the first act, at the end of the first act, was so emotional for me. I started choking up, and I was trying to figure out how to speak because I could not. I could not speak. The tears were just rolling down my face, and I thought, "You better get a hold of yourself. You can't be falling apart in this." And so it was very challenging. And I've— that's happened a few times, actually. There's a beautiful play at the Geffen. Did you see The Inheritance?

Lee Pugsley
I did not get to see that. I really wanted to. I just missed it due to scheduling.

Joanne DiVito
It was the most remarkable play of 6 hours. We were— It was challenging, and I did it with Deborah. And at the end of the play, you describe the last scene, which is so beautifully done, the lighting and the— and just the trees changing colors, and— I remember just choking up. And I'm learning, you know, it's almost like Barbra Streisand. I'm learning how to speak while crying. Because she can sing. I don't know how she does it. But it's really, you have to almost forget that you're in it. You have to supersede it. You have to kind of live above it. And that's a challenge for me, because I love the theater so much, and sometimes it really, really hits me in the heart.

Alex Howard
You said that play was 6 hours. How did you— did you switch off with Deborah and like—

Joanne DiVito
Yes.

Alex Howard
Eat and take breaks and stuff?

Joanne DiVito
Yes. Actually, it was 3 hours, and then we had a break for dinner, and then another 3 hours. And she and I split, and I believe the first act, there were two acts within the first and second piece. So she would do one part of it and I would do another, and then we would switch off and she would start the second portion of the play. So I ended the play at the very end. And because it was so intense from the beginning to the end, it felt like I had been living through it. I'll never forget it, actually. It was a phenomenal experience for me.

Lee Pugsley
And out of curiosity, have you ever done audio description for TV or film?

Joanne DiVito
I haven't, but Deborah does a lot of film and TV, and so does JC, I think. JC does. And Anthony, he still works as an actor, so he's done voiceovers and all of that. I've done some voiceovers as a choreographer, you know, just to put my— but it wasn't a whole show.

Lee Pugsley
I see. Yeah, it just makes me think about the differences between live audio description, especially if you're doing something like a 6-hour show, versus doing a film or television show, because at least with film or television, if your throat gets dry or maybe you get caught up in the emotion of what you're watching, you can pause it and take a little bit of a break before you record your next line of description. But within live performance, as you're doing it live, just as they're doing it live, you can't really take those breaks as much to regroup.

Joanne DiVito
That's right. With that, basically, when you're doing television or film, you're scripted. So you're actually— you've time-coded and scripted. But when you're doing live theater, it's exactly what is happening at the exact time that it's happening. And so the concentrate— your concentration has to be almost like meditation. So you are so focused and you are not distracted. You can't be distracted because you'll miss something that's important. And sometimes there are little clues that happen in the play that really are the clue to the next scene. So you have to be really present. It's a workout, is what it is.

Lee Pugsley
And the other difference too is with movies, you have the movie or the TV show, and you can rewatch it over and over to pick up on things that maybe you missed the first time around. Where within theater, I know when we've had Roman, JC, and Anthony on, they talked about how they will get one night to go watch the show beforehand, maybe if they're fortunate they can go see it 1 or 2 more times. But if that's not the case, then you really just have to be so focused and so much in the moment. I'm curious to know though, have you ever had a show that you described that you had no previous preparation for? Meaning you didn't get to watch a performance of it before you described it.

Joanne DiVito
Right. Um, I'm trying to think if I ever did. I know, I think JC has jumped in, and I think Roman did also. Sometimes, uh, that's the case, you can go off the script, but you have to, you know, in some cases they have, and I don't know if this is legal or not, but they used to have videos on YouTube of the entire show. And sometimes you can do that. You can preview that way. But that's really rare. It's hard to find. So I'm always researching. I haven't really had to describe if I had no clue what was happening without doing some research.

Alex Howard
What's your process like? Do you take notes when you go watch it the first time? And like, how has your process changed from when you first started?

Joanne DiVito
Well, my process, basically— what a good question that is. I basically see the play. I will take notes. And sometimes we can take pictures if the theater allows us to do that. So at least we know what the different sets look like. But then I do a massive amount of research because I like to get in depth what the musical is about, give myself enough understanding so that I feel like I'm putting on the cloak of the— you know, I'm actually putting on the whole coat of what that play is about. And it makes me feel comfortable. I don't know, some people are very verbal and they can just go off the cuff, I have to research. So sometimes I will mark up the script. I will say, "Okay, this is like..." Peter Pan goes wrong. Oh my gosh, it was so fast, and there were so many comedy sketch— I mean, so many comedy cues that I knew I had to be on top of it. And Clue, if you've ever seen Clue or any of the go-wrong plays, it's so fast that you have to prepare the patron for something to happen.

And then when it happens, ah, that's the reason. So I like to be ready and willing to give a little bit of a hint before it happens. Like sometimes I will warn people if there's gonna be a, a shot in the dark or all of that. So, and then when I actually describe, sometimes I will just describe off what I know and understand. Sometimes I will check with the script. Cuz it's, it's almost like a preparation. It tells me what's coming next. So it gives me, me a warning sign too. Which I find helpful.

Lee Pugsley
Now, when you say warning sign and you say that sometimes you'll cue your audience into something that's coming, what kind of verbiage do you use for that? And is that part of the live description or is that pre-show that you'll tell them?

Joanne DiVito
Sometimes what I'll do is because of the way the play is set up, let's say you don't really see the character raising the gun because he's behind a wall or you can see it. You can barely see it. I will tell the patron that he's raising his gun and pointing it at a specific place, so when the shot comes, it's not going to be a surprise. I mean, it will be a surprise, but it won't be a shock. And I feel that's really important because when, when it's a shock, then it, it kind of shakes the rafters and people have to recover from it. So I want to, I want to make sure that they're aware that something's about to happen.

Lee Pugsley
That makes sense. It reminds me of something that me and Alex always talk about here on the show, especially when it comes to horror movies and there's jump scares, deciding to describe the jump scare or describe something before it happens.

Joanne DiVito
Yes.

Lee Pugsley
Or after it happens. In live performance, do you find you have to make those kinds of decisions often? And when you do, how do you decide whether you should describe it before or after the moment happens?

Joanne DiVito
Yeah, that's a really important point. And I'm, I'm gonna ask you, if you were listening to a description, what seems to work with you the best way? Because this, this brings in the patron and their preferences. Sometimes I find that the the patron wants to know only the jokes, or a patron wants to know only when they're dancing. They have their specific wishes, right? What feels most important to you? Is it the lead-up to the actual occurrence, or is it right on the occurrence itself? What feels right to you, or is it depends upon the play?

Alex Howard
Well, I think, I mean, I'd imagine like if it's someone firing a gun, like you said, like, yeah, describing them holding up the gun, and then we hear the shot, so you don't need to say, "They shoot."

Joanne DiVito
[simultaneously] "They shoot."

Alex Howard
Yeah. Like, you can say it after. I mean, we heard it go off, but I mean, just to confirm that he's the one who actually shot.

Joanne DiVito
Right.

Alex Howard
But like, yeah, I mean, I think if it's like going to make the audience jump or shocked, I'd rather be after so that I can experience that with the audience. But as long as it's something you can like set up in a previous description so that when the audience is shocked, I'm not completely confused. And then afterwards you can clarify what just happened. But yeah.

Joanne DiVito
Yeah. Yes.

Alex Howard
What about you, Lee?

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I think I would agree. I always like it when there's a little bit of setup, but if there's enough context clues to give us the gist of what's going on, I'm good with that. And I'd rather have the description of what just happened happen after the moment rather than right before the moment. Because in movies, sometimes you'll see he shoots him in the head and then you hear the gunshot go off. But I'd rather have that moment happen afterwards so I could be at the same level of shock or surprise as any other audience member that's watching.

Joanne DiVito
Yes. And therein lies the questioning of yourself. Like, when I'm describing what is best, like, sometimes J.C. or Deborah will say, "You know, let's not do the reveal." Like, it might be a big, huge costume reveal. and you have to be careful not to ruin the moment. So you can prepare in the description, the pre-show notes, you can prepare that there is a costume there and it looks kind of, you know, full of sequins, and, but when it finally happens and everybody sees it and you hear the audience go: [gasps as an audience member]. Then you can describe it, what it looks like, and, and that it's being revealed. So it's a very delicate balance, and you have to be so thinking and so on top of it so that you don't ruin it for the patron. So that's, that's my experience. Has it— sometimes it's worked and sometimes it hasn't.

Lee Pugsley
I'm sure it gets tricky, like you were saying, just juggling the preferences of different patrons, because there's not always a one-size-fits-all. Everyone is so individualistic and has their own preference. That doesn't make a preference right or wrong. It just makes everyone very different. On that note, though, I'm curious to know what you have learned from your patrons. I mean, you talked about that you learn a lot from your patrons. So what has the blind and low vision community taught you as you interact with them that's either changed or impacted the way that you do the work in live audio description?

Joanne DiVito
Yes, my patrons have been so generous with me. When I first started, there's a tendency as a describer to over-describe. Too many words, too much, too, you know, and just wanting to get it all out because you're afraid that you might miss something and they might miss something. But what my patrons have been very clear about is that if you over-talk, they let you know. They're very honest about what doesn't work for them and what does work for them. And so I've learned I had to stop over-talking. And it's okay, but it's uncomfortable when you— say, for instance, one of the characters move— say you have two characters on a stage. One starts moving closer to the other character, and you can allude to it, but then let them come together. What Deborah said to me was so fascinating, that the patron is usually listening. Their listening ability is very high. They hear the change in the voice, where the voice is, when it comes together, when they're speaking together, when they're speaking far apart. So you don't have to describe that necessarily, but you can say they come together, they hold hands, you know, so it sets up the mood, they kiss, right?

So it sets up the mood and the coming, the unifying kind of action of the scene. So it's... My patrons are my best teachers. And that's why, after all, that's why we're doing it. We're doing it for them. But we're also doing it for ourselves because when we see that it's really impacted a patron, we're so happy because it's really for us. We realize that we have been the eyes for them. And that's a gift.

Alex Howard
Do you have a favorite play that you've described over the years?

Joanne DiVito
Well, I have to say that Wicked for me is one of my favorite, favorite favorites. [laughs] I have to say it. I— there was also another play I'm trying— I'm trying to remember the name of it. It was so beautiful and so subtle. And, um...  Indecent, I think it was the name of it. It was a brilliant play. And I was moved. And of course, Inheritance was one incredible play. You know, musicals for me these days, they're— some of them are so big and so complex that I want to kind of say, okay, okay, okay, all right, this is good. But I guess I would have to look at the different genres, like Clue was fun. It was just fun. And there's so many plays that I've done. I love Fiddler. But that's me. I'm kind of an old Broadway person. The mood of it and the technique of it. I'm sure there's 100 other things that I just love, but those come to mind.

Lee Pugsley
Do you find plays easier to describe than musicals? Because to me, it seems like it would be a little bit easier, even though they have their own challenges as well.

Joanne DiVito
I absolutely agree. Musicals, if they're small, you know, are wonderful, but then you have to— if it's a musical, you have to describe the dancing and the singing and the acting and the–– You have to describe what's going on on stage because you hear the music, but you're not sure if some group is coming across the stage, if there's nobody on stage, if there's, you know, a whole chorus line coming downstage. So what you want to do is you want— it's more complex. Somebody like a one-person show or 2 persons show, or 5, even 5 people. For me, it's a little bit easier, although I've done a 1-person show where they've done a lot of costume changes, a lot of lighting and change. And so you're always, you're always with them describing what they're doing. And it can be complex, but usually musicals are much more because it's, they're a bigger show, lots of set changes and lots of costumes and lots of dancing and movement and, and you have to decide what's important to focus on. You can't tell the patron everything. You just can't. It's impossible.

Alex Howard
What was the most difficult thing you've had to describe? Like, I know, so sometimes the Hollywood Bowl does some events that aren't really plays, that aren't really— they're kind of like, you know, movie and concert or whatever. Is there anything that you've ever described that's been pretty difficult, but you got through it?

Joanne DiVito
[chuckles] Oh my God. Well, I remember doing Moulin Rouge when I first did it, and Deborah said, oh, Joanne, back to the drawing board here, because it was so amazing. So much going on there. As far as the Hollywood Bowl, Some of that, it's complex, but it's more complex for the patron because sometimes the sound doesn't work as well, and the sound is vital, obviously, for the patron and the describer. And if we run out of sound or if it doesn't work or the patron is not getting the sound, then that's, you know, that can be a problem. But as far as difficulty, I would say, for me, it would be the big complex musicals. Clue is a whodunit where people are coming in and out of doorways and they're all coming together or they're separate and it's trying to unify. And what is that beautiful show again? The one with the tiger?

Lee Pugsley
The Life of Pi?

Joanne DiVito
Life of Pi. I did it as though I were choreographing a show. I literally, cue to cue, I memorized all the cues that came in there because it happened so fast. All of a sudden a tiger is jumping on you, or, you know, suddenly there's different people in the boat or different things in the boat, elements. So I had to memorize everything. Because I had to be on top of it. So difficulty is, I guess, for each describer, it's a different thing. Who I am, what I've been as a performer, what I've been in my life really does affect how I approach it and how different I do in the describing. And, you know, Anthony would do it differently and Roman definitely. And I, we're all very different. And yet there is a technique, like Deborah has created this whole manual where when we get trained, we have to learn it. And if we don't, we're doomed in some cases to fail. And so she's like a mother hen for us. She says, okay, we have to do it this way. And we have to learn how to do it. Like learning anything, like any craft or any art. So that kind of gives you a little bit of the internal part of describing.

Alex Howard
Do you guys describe the movies in concert or no?

Joanne DiVito
I know that, well, JC is amazing. She goes to all the concerts. She's an amazing describer and she solves so many problems because very often the sound is so high that sometimes the patron cannot hear if they wear the headsets. So she literally speaks to them almost person to person because it's harder to hear with the headset on. So she does a lot of our concerts. Roman is wonderful with— oh gosh, he's so wonderful with the contemporary stuff. He's so, he knows the stuff. It's like he grew up with it. Anthony is fantastic with Broadway and opera. And Deb, she just does it all. She's a wild woman. She does movies, television, live theater. And every once in a while, JC does the videos or movies or whatever. She'll— she jumped in. She also does... JC actually did a whole slew of operas that were described, and amazing, she brought us into the LA Opera. That's a whole unique thing. So you get to read the supertitles, describe what's going on, and it's another unique way of describing. I love opera though. I love it. Having been Italian and brought up with two opera singers in my family, whatever. But it's fun for me.

Lee Pugsley
I can only imagine when you talked about Moulin Rouge, describing the opening number of that show, the first 10 minutes, which is just like— [Joanne laughs knowingly] and it's like theater on crack. It's just like so many things are happening in so many different places. And I can only imagine how you go about describing that because it's like, what do you describe first of all? Because there's 5 million things happening and all of it makes a difference, like the lighting, the costumes, the choreography, the sets. Like, yeah, I mean, how was that experience for you? And I love that show. I've seen it like 17 times live. So I'm a very big Moulin Rouge fan. But that opening number is wild, though.

Joanne DiVito
It certainly is. Oh my God. It was so— I know it happened that Deb decided that she was going to watch my first Moulin Rouge. I did the best I could, but luckily enough, she gave me a hint where to focus my attention because so much was going on. And it was— and then I wanted to do it more and more times because I wanted to get it right, do it correctly so it wasn't overwhelming for the patron and for me. And so sometimes, yeah, and like Hamilton. Oh my God, another incredible show with so much going on. I loved Hamilton, actually. I totally forgot about that. I can't believe it. But yes, actually, JC, myself, and Deborah, all because they did it so many times at the Pantages and at the Segerstrom, that we, we had almost like a confab. We helped each other do that show because it was so— there was so much going on and it— so many changes. So, um, so sometimes we'll do it almost as a, um, a team, you know, a team negotiating the pre-show notes and, and, uh, describing what's going on on stage and who's about to come out and who's, you know, and where the scenes change.

So it's another complex thing to do, but we love it so much. All of us love it. We kind of have to make a decision who's going to do it these days, except I have to tell you, this is one of my experiences with Hamilton. I, you know, I had done it about 5 times and And I went in and I thought, oh, you know, it's another Hamilton. I went in on a Saturday and they had decided— when I do the pre-show notes, they had decided to put all the understudies in. So all my descriptions of the understudies, they were all different. And I went, wait a minute, that's not the character. It was a big surprise and they didn't announce it. They just put the understudies, all the entire cast. So that was a challenge, I have to tell you.

Lee Pugsley
And it's a challenge too, because in that show specifically, it just moves and there's very little breathing room to even interject any description.

Joanne DiVito
Right, right. Exactly. And it's so good. It's so brilliantly put together and you don't want to ruin it. But that's what I think creates such a challenge and such a loving experience because it shows that you always have something to learn, always, with this field. And the patrons, they're so amazing. That's all I have to say. I wish we could reach out to so many more and just let everybody know about what this is. Because we want to do more of it. We want to have more people experience the theater. I had one— I'm sorry, I'm going on and on, but I had one patron for the opera. She had never experienced audio description before, and she went to the opera, and she came to me afterwards, and she was crying. She said, "I never knew what I missed." I never knew what I missed, and I am so grateful. And I was, you know, it was very emotional for me because that's the whole point. Let people experience the theater, the live theater.

Lee Pugsley
It truly is a beautiful gift. I'm curious to know too then, um, kind of switching to the other side of things, what's something that you think that the sighted audience takes for granted or could take for granted that is important to communicate within live description?

Joanne DiVito
Oh, what a great question. Um, I don't think a sighted person realizes the subtlety in movement and relationships on stage, um, how important that is. They sometimes, they just–– They see it and they might not feel it, but with a blind patron or a blind person, they feel the connection. And it's really, really vital and important that they feel that. That my verbiage or my description has to allow kind of an open heart. And when you're sighted, you see sometimes everything and sometimes you don't see everything. Like, I had a patron's partner, and they came up to us and they said, "You know, I didn't realize that that happens in the play until you described that that was there," because they were listening along with their partner. "I didn't realize that they picked up this locket or whatever. I didn't even know that." So it's a very intricate art form as a describer. And I wish we had much more connection with the patrons because they're teachers for us. They're the teachers. They understand what they need to know.

Lee Pugsley
You know, that's why me and Alex love having like live audio describers on as well as, you know, TV and film audio description writers and performers, is because hopefully people will be listening to this, and if they live in the Los Angeles area, hopefully it'll inspire them to go check out a live performance knowing that there is accessibility available.

Joanne DiVito
Yes.

Lee Pugsley
And, you know, hopefully from there that'll allow you and the rest of the team to connect with those patrons too.

Joanne DiVito
Yes, I hope so. I hope it keeps on growing. You know, just that we reach out to the folks who don't know anything about that this actually exists. And it gives hope and it gives a whole new life arena where they can experience so much more, you know, which is exactly what we're hoping to do. Deb has started this at more than 30 years ago, and I'm grateful.

Alex Howard
Lee, do you know if they do this in other cities as well?

Joanne DiVito
Yes, they do. Yeah, they do it. They actually do it in London. They do ballet in London and it is phenomenal. They have a regular describer who— they can go backstage, they can feel the costumes. They, they have a whole program and there are regulars that come in every week, go to the ballet, and it's fantastic. They do it in New York. They do. I mean, they do it around the country, actually. I think they have it in Chicago. They have it in San Francisco and San Diego. We do some San Diego stuff. So, but that's all California and, you know, up in the West Coast. But yes, they do. They have it in other places. I think they have it in Florida. Deb knows everywhere.

Lee Pugsley
It's wonderful that they're becoming more widespread with it because I know for a long time this wasn't a thing at all. And now it's spreading to other cities and even other countries. And I think that's so significant and such a beautiful gift for everyone who's in the blind and low vision communities and even people that aren't in those communities that might want to check it out as well.

Joanne DiVito
Yes, absolutely. And, you know, I know that with all the describing and everything, as people get older, you know, their vision is less and less in some cases, and this is such an addendum to it. It's so helpful. We're expanding to other areas, and JC is so funny. She's studying wrestling, the wrestling. I forget what they call it, but she so wants to describe wrestling. And so, um, so we'll, you know...

Alex Howard
Yeah, are you guys doing sporting events?

Joanne DiVito
Yeah, well, we're starting to, we're starting, they're starting to call us and it's just fantastic because, um, in describing sporting events, I mean, you, of course you have an announcer, but, but they don't always announce when somebody comes up from the audience and runs onto the, onto the, uh, the deck and slaps the— so it's, it's a whole other world. Yeah.

Alex Howard
Are you guys doing Dodger games or no?

Joanne DiVito
Uh, we're, we're not. Well, we have to be called. We have to, um, actually the, the blind patrons have to ask for audio description and, and there has to be a connection there, but it's part of the law.

Uh-huh.

Yeah. So it's sort of—

Alex Howard
Because when I go, I listen, they give you like the radio and it's not delayed at the stadium.

Joanne DiVito
Yeah.

Alex Howard
So I know what's going on through that, but I can't participate in the stuff in between innings. Like you said, if someone runs out on the field, there's things that I can't see that's still going on. So it'd be great to have both options.

Joanne DiVito
And part of that is just, um, talking to— well, you can talk to Deb about it, and certainly JC is an advocate for spreading out, you know, the different aspects, like sports and arts. And, you know, she is just such a good person because she just sees the openings of what can happen. And of course, the Olympics are coming, and that's a whole other world. So part of it is upon request. And that's how we started doing all the rock concerts over at the SoFi. And people started requesting the concerts. And so they got in touch with us and they asked us to do it. It's just getting to the different venues, basically. We just, we just did something at La Mirada. Which is not a theater that we have had before.

Lee Pugsley
It's one of the things that we always talk about on here is, you know, sometimes we have to be our own advocates. And hopefully as time goes by, things will become more normalized. But for now, for anyone that's out there in the Los Angeles area, you can always call the box office for any venue that you're going to see a show or a live performance at. And you can request audio description, and most likely it's going to be someone from your group, Audio Description Los Angeles, but it starts with getting in touch with the venue first. So for those of you out there who want to see a live performance, call the venue and request audio description, and by law, as you said, Joanne, they have to give it to you.

Joanne DiVito
That's right. Thank you so much for saying that. It's really important. You know, and also if they want, I call it a dog and pony show, but if management wants to understand what's going on, Deborah does a fantastic job of describing what description is all about and how it works. And she has a slideshow, she has the whole thing. It's beautiful. And it's so wonderful because you see the light go on in, you know, in the person's eyes, you say, oh, oh, now I get it.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah.

Joanne DiVito
Whereas before, if you'd explain it and explain it, sometimes it just doesn't make sense. Yeah. I mean, it's about asking for it and not to be afraid. Just— and they can always get in touch with JC or Deborah, and we can let them know who to ask for a date when they can have an audio describer.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I know, very good information.

Alex Howard
Has to be 2 weeks in advance, right?

Joanne DiVito
That's what they, that's what they say. Sometimes we can do it, you know, quickly. Some theaters are better than others. So 2 weeks if you want to buy a ticket. If you buy a ticket and there's no audio description on that day, you can request it. And, and then they'll call us.

Lee Pugsley
Definitely. Alex, do you have any final questions before we wrap up?

Alex Howard
No, I think we'll put all that information in the description for you guys.

Joanne DiVito
Great, thank you. I'm so delighted. This is just fun. It makes me think about what I'm experiencing, you know. I get so busy that I forget, you know. But thank you so much, both of you. I really enjoyed this.

Lee Pugsley
Yes, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us. It was very insightful for us, and both me and Alex have used your services before from your team for live performances, and we both really appreciate the work that you guys are doing and continue to do to make live performance accessible.

Joanne DiVito
Oh, that's wonderful. Yeah. Are you both at Pasadena Playhouse? I know you go there quite often, right?

Lee Pugsley
I go there. Um, Alex, you do not— you have not been there before, right?

Alex Howard
I've been— I— when I was a kid, I went.

Joanne DiVito
Oh, oh. [chuckles]

Alex Howard
I usually go to Pantages or the Ahmanson.

Joanne DiVito
Yeah. Oh, the Ahmanson. Oh, right. Oh, great. Yeah, I— we love, we love that. I'll see you at the Ahmanson or wherever.

Alex Howard
Yeah, I mean, I might be trying to get you guys at Dodger Stadium this year. I don't know. We'll see.

Joanne DiVito
Oh, that's amazing.

Lee Pugsley
That would be awesome.

Joanne DiVito
Yeah, I know that. I know that. It's so funny. JC is studying up on her sports, so she's, she's going to baseball. She's watching baseball games and wrestling, and oh my gosh, it's amazing. So she'll be happy to hear that.

Lee Pugsley
And the best way to get in touch with you, Joanne, or anyone from the Audio Description Los Angeles team is to go to the website. Is that correct?

Joanne DiVito
Um, yes. You have JC's email, right?

Lee Pugsley
Correct.

Joanne DiVito
What I would do is basically give her email, tell the patron or tell whoever you want to talk to, to sign up for our mailing list because she sends something out once a month with new shows in it and what's going on. And that would be— and she also communicates to the patrons. If they have a question, she tells them the lay of the land. She tells them how to get tickets or, you know, where to go and who to speak to. She's very, very good with PR and marketing and information. So if you want to, you can put her email in there and she'll put you on them, or whoever it is, she'll put them on the mailing list, which is really important.

Lee Pugsley
Okay, perfect. Yeah, we'll link JC's email in our description if they would like to be added to the Audio Description Los Angeles mailing list. And then for anyone else who has questions for me and Alex about anything we covered in today's episode, you can always email us at DarkRoomFilmCast@gmail.com. Once again, that's DarkRoomFilmCast@gmail.com. You can follow us on Instagram @DarkRoomFilmCast and subscribe to our YouTube channel at DarkRoomFilmCast as well.

Alex Howard
We'd like to thank Matt Lauterbach and All Senses Go for helping out with captions. And BlindCAN for helping out with editing.

Lee Pugsley
Thank you so much, Joanne, once again, for being here, and thank you all for listening, and we'll see you back here next time on The Dark Room.

Joanne DiVito
Thank you so much. Bye-bye.

Alex Howard
Thanks.