Ep. 66: Celebrating The Toy Story Films

In celebration of the recent release of "Toy Story 5", Alex and Lee discuss the lasting legacy of the beloved franchise and rank all 5 films. Find out if our rankings match yours.

If you would like to contact us, please email darkroomfilmcast@gmail.com.

Search for Audio Description availability for any title on the American Council for the Blind's Website! https://adp.acb.org/findavideo.html 

Find transcripts of our episodes on our hosting site, Buzzsprout!
Subscribe to our YouTube Channel!
Support us on Patreon!
Follow us on Instagram!
Find us on Facebook!

Transcript

Lee Pugsley
What's up everyone, and welcome back to another episode of The Dark Room, where two blind cinephiles illuminate the sighted. I'm Lee Pugsley.

Alex Howard
I'm Alex Howard.

Lee Pugsley
And this is a podcast hosted by two legally blind guys for film lovers of all abilities. And today, this is an episode that Alex and I have been very excited about, and we wanted to do it for a while. And due to the recent release of Toy Story 5, it seemed like a fitting time to do this. We wanted to discuss the legacy of the Toy Story franchise and to give you our thoughts on each of the movies and where they fit into our rankings. Obviously, this could be a little controversial depending on how you feel about the Toy Story movies. But we thought it would be fun to explore this franchise. And to begin with, Alex, I'll just throw it over to you. What is it about the Toy Story movies that have stood the test of time over the last— 30 years?

Alex Howard
Well, so first of all, yeah, we were going to do a Pixar episode, which we're still going to do, but we thought Toy Story deserves its own episode because it's so iconic and so huge. And there are 5 movies on its own. For me, the Toy Story franchise has stood the test of time. I grew up with Toy Story personally, and I know, like, I have a son, so it's like a generational franchise at this point. You know, your kids' kids. I mean, my parents took me to see Toy Story. I remember Toy Story 2 is my first ever memory in a theater. I was 6 years old. My parents took me to the El Capitan to see Toy Story 2, and I vividly remember looking around and seeing like the traffic cones on the walls because there's a scene with traffic cones in the movie. That's my first ever memory in a movie theater. So, I mean, Toy Story is a cornerstone for a whole generation of kids.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I agree with that. And I think the thing that really is so resonant about the Toy Story films is that they deal with so many relatable themes such as mortality, immortality, belonging, acceptance, purpose, meaning, growing up, letting go. I mean, there's so many really rich themes embedded in there and things that all of us have experienced, things that we've thought about. And whether you identify with Buzz and Woody or any of the toys and their fear of being replaced or losing their purpose, or you relate to the idea of growing up and and seasons changing, I think that you can relate from a kid's point of view of someone who used to play with toys and venturing into adulthood, or you can relate to the toys' point of view of those feelings and insecurities that they grapple with. And I think that's really what's kind of made the Toy Story franchise stand out. For me personally, I've seen all the Toy Story movies in theaters. I grew up watching the VHS of Toy Story 1 and 2 multiple times, and I'm very familiar with those movies specifically. But also, I have seen the other movies movies multiple times as well. And I think that Pixar really did a fantastic job as a whole with this franchise and with really giving us something to latch on to.

Alex Howard
Oh yeah, definitely. I think especially with the first one— and I mean, the theme continues— but the first one is a lot about Woody's jealousy and all of that. And I think kids can totally relate to being jealous of their friends. And when we grew up, we played with physical toys and all of that. I hope kids now-- My son plays with physical toys. And so I think, you know, as kids, you can definitely relate to the Toy Story franchise. Also, the franchise has grossed over $4 billion and counting with the new one. It's still going. So, and two of them on their own, Toy Story 3 and 4, have made over $1 billion at the box office, and 5 is probably going to make $1 billion as well. So, I mean, the money is there. People show up for them and all of the movies, except for Lightyear, which we're not going to talk about Lightyear in depth in here. But all of the mainline Toy Story movies have over 90% on Rotten Tomatoes.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, that's pretty crazy, honestly.

Alex Howard
I don't know that you can say that for any franchise other than Toy Story, right? That 5 of the movies have over 90%.

Lee Pugsley
That's a good question. I don't know for sure, but I think that Toy Story has to have the highest ratings of almost any franchise to date.

Alex Howard
At least animated franchise, for sure.

Lee Pugsley
Definitely. Well, let's go ahead and dive into our thoughts on the Toy Story movies, and we can start in chronological order from order they were released. And I guess it's fair to say that there will be spoilers for these movies because they've been out for a long time. If you haven't seen Toy Story 5 yet, then you can skip past that section, but we will be going into a bit of a deeper dive than we do on other films for this franchise, beginning with Toy Story 1, which came in 1995. Alex, how do you feel about this film?

Alex Howard
I was 2 years old when this came out, so I, I don't think I went to the theater for it. If I do, I don't remember. But I vividly remember having the book VHS tape for this. Um, I mean, this was iconic in the industry because it was the first fully computer animated feature film. Um, so it was iconic in that way. But I think it's just such a great story. Obviously, we— I talked about, you know, Woody being jealous of Buzz, that whole dynamic is very relatable. And it's just so relatable too, with the playing with toys, just everything about the Randy Newman score. It's just pretty much a perfect movie. This ranks number 2 for me in the franchise. I mean, usually the first one is always, you know, the iconic movie. So, um, I mean, it's so hard to, like, talk about how great Toy Story is because it's so highly regarded just in the industry as a whole, and it's so groundbreaking in terms of movies with the computer animation and all that.

I have not watched it in 4K. I, I'd be curious to because I know it's funny, I did a rewatch. I think the last time I did a rewatch was before Toy Story 4 back in 2019. And it's funny because the background of the frames you can tell it's early Pixar because it's not fully fleshed out 3D animation in the background of some of the shots. But I'm curious to see on the 4K. I don't know if they've cleaned that up or not. I also read that some of the— I looked up some fun facts before we recorded this. Billy Crystal was offered the role of Buzz Lightyear and he turned it down. And he says that that's the biggest regret of his career, is turning down Buzz Lightyear.

Lee Pugsley
I did not know that. That's really interesting. And I'll give you my thoughts on the first Toy Story movie, but just wanted to comment on the voice cast for all of these movies. I think that they chose the perfect people to voice these characters, and now that these characters have become so iconic and beloved, it's hard to imagine any other celebrity voicing any of them.

Alex Howard
I totally agree with you. I also had so many of these toys growing up. I mean, I had several Woody dolls, I had Buzz Lightyear, I had I think its name is Mr. Microphone. I had a Slinky Dog. I had Mr. Potato Head. I had so many of these. These were like the iconic toys for me growing up as well.

Lee Pugsley
Likewise, I remember that I had the complete Burger King collection, which had the toy soldiers, Buzz, Woody, RC the race car, Ham, I believe, the pig, Rex the dinosaur, and maybe there was one or two others that I'm missing. And it was just so fun because the characters on screen were also the characters that we played with as children. So I think that just makes it very nostalgic in that way.

Alex Howard
It's so smart of Disney to like make a movie about toys and then be able to sell that merch to the kids as well. And you can see why with every movie they introduce a new toy, because then they can make money off of the merchandise as well.

Lee Pugsley
I'm sure that the merchandising for these movies has made billions of dollars as well. I can only imagine through the years how much money they've made.

Alex Howard
Yeah, I saw a really cute video the other day of a kid. The parents were taking their kid to see Toy Story 5 and they got out of the car and she was like, it's too bad, you know, we don't have Woody with us. And the dad's like, what's that? And the kid turns and I think the parents had taped Woody to the bumper of the car. He was hanging off the bumper and the kid was like, oh, Woody. And he went and grabbed him and it was like, oh my God, just out of the movie. It was so funny.

Lee Pugsley
That's awesome. I love that. Well, going into my thoughts on the first Toy Story movie, I do think that it is an incredible film for so many reasons. First of all, I think that the screenplay is excellent. Even as a writer, in terms of story structure, conflict, exposition, rising action, climax, falling action, denouement, I use the Toy Story script to helped me as a writer. And there's a reason that it got nominated for Best Original Screenplay, as it rightfully deserves. The way they set up the conflict between Buzz and Woody is so wonderful with the conflict and being accepted and being forgotten. All of those themes, once again, are very much at the forefront of both of these characters here. And it just hits in all the right ways. I think that the dialogue is very snappy. And the humor just lands so well along with the visuals. I think that every character is given personality, and you really feel like each character has their moments to shine. It doesn't feel like a bloated character piece where there's a bunch of supporting characters, but you have no idea what the personalities of these characters are.

And I think that's really a defining factor of Toy Story is the distinct characterizations that you feel like you just want to spend time with each one of these characters. Beyond that, like you said, the Randy Newman score is fantastic. And songs like "You've Got a Friend in Me" and "Sailing No More" are just well-written songs, both musically and lyrically, that really add a lot to the emotion and the fun tone of the piece. And Toy Story 1 for me is number 2 on my list as well, so we do have that in common. I think that it set off this franchise so well, and this movie always has rewatchability.

Alex Howard
Yeah, and I think another interesting thing about this movie that I haven't really thought of before— Woody is not a nice character for most of the movie. Like, he's actually a pretty big dick to Buzz for a lot of it, and yet he is the protagonist. He's someone that kids look up to and want to play with Woody and all that. He changes by the end, obviously, but I think it's interesting that he has such a great character arc in the first movie.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I totally agree with that. And Woody is very unlikable for most of the movie. It's so true. I think that it's easy to forget that when the franchise moves forward because Woody is way more likable than he is in the first movie.

Alex Howard
Yeah.

Lee Pugsley
Also, what are some of your favorite moments from Toy Story, whether it's lines of dialogue or just moments of action that happen in the film?

Alex Howard
I mean, I think the most iconic scene is when Andy opens up his Buzz Lightyear and puts him on the bed, and then Woody climbs up on the bed, and it's like Buzz Lightyear's doing his Space Ranger thing. And he flies around the room. That whole scene is, I think, in my mind, the iconic scene of Toy Story.

Lee Pugsley
For sure. I would say that some of my favorite moments, and these are super niche moments, I guess. First one is with Mr. Shark or whatever his name is when he comes out of the toy box with Woody's hat and he's like, hi, I'm Woody. Howdy, howdy, howdy. I always loved that moment. The second moment I really like is, at one point in time, Andy and his mom are getting in the car and he's like, can I drive? And she's like, when you're older. He's like, nope, nope, nope. I like that for whatever reason. And then the third moment I like is when the toys are looking for Buzz in the bushes and they see Whiskers the cat. I'm like, Whiskers, will you move? So I don't know why those are the moments that stick out to me, but those are always like some of the lesser moments in Toy Story that just kind of stick with me.

Alex Howard
Yeah. And I think the other, the other cool thing— I mean, this is something most people know, but that the Pizza Planet van is in most Pixar movies, like in some way they find a way to like Easter egg it into all the Pixar movies.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, that's true. I think that was so smart for them and such a clever device to use.

Alex Howard
Some of your favorite lines, I could like picture that scene in the movie that you were talking about. The last one I couldn't picture at all. So that one was pretty niche for sure.

Lee Pugsley
In conclusion though, with Toy Story 1, there's so much to appreciate about this movie and it really was groundbreaking for its time. And, you know, it set off the whole trajectory for all the other great Pixar movies we have today as well.

Alex Howard
And I think all animated movies for the future in general, because after, after Toy Story, almost everything became computer animated.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, well, let's move on to Toy Story 2, which came out in 1999, and I'll go ahead and begin on this one.

Alex Howard
I was gonna say you should probably start because I have a feeling it's your number one.

Lee Pugsley
You're absolutely correct on that. You know how much I love this movie based on me talking about it all these years. I think that Toy Story 2 is phenomenal. I think that it took everything that we loved about Toy Story 1-- the characters, the themes of being forgotten, acceptance, belonging, letting go, purpose, and it just deepened those themes in such a beautiful way. I mean, the character of Jessie really adds so much to the story, and the song "When She Loved Me" is the perfect song for that character. I mean, it just evokes so much emotion. Anytime you hear the beginning chords of that song, it automatically makes you feel emotional. But beyond that, I just think her character arc and what she learns through Toy Story 2 is really cool. And I love the character Bullseye. I love the Prospector. Barbie's introduced. And so what Toy Story 2 did really well is it just added on to what we already loved from the first movie. It didn't take away anything. It only deepened, enhanced, and made everything better. Like, the comedy in the movie, I think it just hits so well too. And I think that the comedy in the first movie is really good, but I think that's the comedy in the second movie is even elevated by what they did with the screenplay.

Alex Howard
I completely agree with everything you said. Toy Story 2 is my number 3 of the franchise. It's almost 1A, 1B, 1C for me. Like, Toy Story 2 is— I mean, like I said, it's the first movie I remember vividly seeing in a theater at the El Capitan. I more remember the walls than the actual watching the actual movie of the theater. But I grew up with 1 and 2 completely as a kid. I love Jessie and Bullseye. I think what's really great about 2 is like having Woody make that decision of, you know, he finds out he's an iconic character. He's like a collectible. He's worth something. And he has to choose between, do I want to be displayed on the shelf and everyone ooh and aah at me, or do I want to be Andy's toy? So he has to make that decision, and, um, I think that really has a great metaphor. It really resonates with adults and kids. And also a fun fact, um, I guess they approached Mattel to use Barbie in the first Toy Story, and Mattel said no because they thought it would be a flop. And then once it did well, they were like, all right, you can use them for the second one.

So that's why Barbie's in the second movie, not just the first movie, which I thought that introduction was really, really interesting because it was so funny that all the toys think Barbie is like so hot and they're all like gawking over her. So I thought that was really great. I love the adventure of the second one too, how they go— like in the first one, they pretty much— I mean, they go to the Pizza Planet, but then it's pretty much between Sid's house and Andy's house, which is like next door to each other. And so I thought the adventure in this was great, how they went to the toy store and then they went to Al's apartment building and to the airport. I thought the airport scene was really great in the airplane and everything. And then they go back to Andy's house. So the adventure in Toy Story 2 really took a step up.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, it really did. And I think that's another reason that I like it is because of not just because of the location variety, but because it feels like it's on a bigger scale. And once again, in virtually every level. And I like the fact that we get to see Zurg, and the Star Wars reference is obviously really great too.

Alex Howard
Yeah, the Zurg stuff was really cool. Um, I thought if there's any weakness in Toy Story 2, um, I thought it was the second Buzz was a little strange. How he was like so into Zurg. But I mean, overall, I think both Toy Story 1 and 2 have a 100% on Rotten Tomatoes, and rightfully so, because they are absolutely amazing.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah. When deciding between Toy Story 1 and 2, there's a very small margin of difference in the way that I rank them. Like, they could almost be interchangeable. But like I said, Toy Story 2 has the slight edge because it just elevated everything from the first one. But they both hold their own very confidently in the Toy Story franchise.

Alex Howard
And for me, the iconic scene from 2, the scene I always think of when Al drops all the Cheetos Puffs on the ground and Woody has to sneak around all the Cheetos Puffs and Bullseye is licking Al's fingers. I don't know why that's always the scene I think of. I think the animation in that scene is so good with the leftover cheese on his hand and all of that. What's the iconic scene for you?

Lee Pugsley
Is Toy Story 2 the one where they walk under the cones? Yes, that's the scene that I always think of, is them walking under the cones.

Alex Howard
Oh, I was gonna say, yeah, the cones are definitely iconic for me as well because that was what was on the walls at the El Capitan. So that's so funny.

Lee Pugsley
And then, I don't know, this is once again the niche things that I like about each Toy Story movie, or at least the first two. Obviously like the Zurg, like, Buzz, I am your father moment. And I also like at the end, once again, really small when Barbie and Pete are in the backpack and Barbie's like, you'll like Amy, she's an artist. I really like that. And then all of the bloopers or the end credit stuff is really great with like Mr. Potato Head and like Mrs. Potato Head, like pushing like monkeys into his like back and like Barbie at the end being like, bye-bye now, bye-bye now. Are they gone? Like all of that is, those, like, ending credits are great, dude.

Alex Howard
I forgot about the outtakes. Those are so good because it's like, you know, obviously they didn't make mistakes when animating, so they had to actually animate the outtakes. That was really funny. That was like my first encounter with the post-credits scene was the outtakes of Toy Story 2.

Lee Pugsley
They're very memorable. You should go revisit those even if you watch no other part of that movie, just to refresh your memory of them. They're so fun.

Alex Howard
Oh, for sure. Um, I think the other iconic shot for me, one other one was after they get out of the plane at the end and the, the other plane comes up and scares them. And it's like the four of them, like Buzz, uh, Woody, Bullseye, and, um, Jessie, and they're like all huddled together. I love that.

Lee Pugsley
Oh yeah, that is a really good moment too. I mean, there's so many good moments in, uh, Toy Story 2. I mean, even when Woody goes to the antique shop and he's first seeing, you know, just kind of what's on the shelves and stuff. I think that animation is really good. I love the fact that you see Woody's Roundup there, which is really fun to kind of give him a trajectory of who he is as well.

Alex Howard
Yeah, he's like, he finds meaning, but then, you know, obviously he already had meaning as a toy, but he sees he has like a greater world meaning, and so it's a really hard decision for him.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, well, I'm glad that we're mostly in agreement on the first two movies, and I feel like we're gonna start to veer off maybe just a little bit here. Um, but now we are to Toy Story 3, which came out in 2010, and I will let you take this one first.

Alex Howard
I mean, Toy Story 3 is pretty much why we did this episode so we can have this debate, so this will be fun. Um, this came out in 2010, so I was 17, so I think I was going into my senior year, or I had— yeah, I think I was going into my senior year of high school, or I just graduated, something like that. And so I was about to go off to college, and so I so identified with Andy going off to college, leaving his toys behind. It was— this movie was so emotional for me. I absolutely love this movie, and I think just from top to bottom, like, having them go to the daycare, you know, experience being played with really rough, having the like almost like a godfather-like thing with Ken and the stuffed bear was really great. I really love that Buzz speaks Spanish. I thought that was so charming and so smart and so cute. And even the Mr. Potato Head in the sandbox I thought was funny. But dude, the end just like packs a punch, like I mean, I think this is where Pixar was at its best.

I mean, I think Toy Story 3 is the best Pixar movie, period. But I think the end where Andy gives up his toys to Bonnie is so heartbreaking. And it's like, I think every kid can identify with that. Basically giving up your childhood and moving on to adulthood. I cried so hard and I think I cry every time I watch it. And this is where Pixar keeps trying to— Pixar and Disney, they keep trying to replicate that formula of making us cry. And I think Toy Story 3 was the best at doing that because they weren't— yes, they were trying to, but it wasn't like, we need to make them cry, we need to write this thing. This is like the natural progression, the natural story. And, you know, we all grew up with Andy, we're growing up with the toys, and now they're saying goodbye to this era of Toy Story. So yeah, I absolutely love this movie.

Lee Pugsley
I fully respect all of your thoughts. However, I would say that I'm probably not in full agreement with all of them. Here's what I will say for myself about Toy Story 3. On the positive side of things, the last 10 minutes or last 5 minutes when Andy's giving the toys to Bonnie and he gives each one of them a moment to talk about why they are meaningful and the character that they are, I think that is incredibly impactful. I think that's very emotionally resonant in terms of growing up, letting go, changing from one season to another. It just hits everywhere that it needs to hit. I think that the very end of the movie kind of ties it back to the first Toy Story movie. And it's a perfect bow and a perfect callback to the very beginning of the franchise. I really like those things. Uh, I also like the addition of Ken, and I love the Ken and Barbie banter and their back and forth with each other. I think that so much of that is really fun and clever, and all of the different things with Ken's clothing I thought was really funny.

But as a whole, if I'm being totally honest, I do have to say, hot take, that I think Toy Story 3 is highly overrated. I wouldn't have given it a Best Picture nomination, and I was not nearly as hyped about it as everyone else was. My theory is, once again, super hot take, and you can totally feel free to disagree with me, uh, meaning you, Alex, or any of the listeners out there, is the reason that people love Toy Story 3 is because of the last 5 minutes that made them feel very emotional, which to some degree is fair. However, I also think that some of the scenes in the daycare suffer from pacing issues, and I get a little bored in the middle of it. Like, I just started watching it again the other day, and I got like, I don't know, like half hour or 40 minutes into it, I'm like, okay, I'm a little bored now. And I don't know, I guess like the incinerator thing is kind of intense because they all could have died, and I know it's kind of a callback to like The Great Escape, but I don't know, just it was fine.

Like, it's not— it's by no means is this like a terrible movie. I just think for all the hype that it gets, it didn't really elevate things for me more than the second one. So like, for example, you have number 1, number 2 elevates what number 1 did, number 3, aside from the ending, it's just kind of like there and it's fine. There's some funny moments. Uh, Spanish Buzz to me was a little gimmicky, honestly. Like, it just— I don't know, it just wasn't for me. Um, I understand why people think it's funny, but yeah, I don't know. I guess those are just kind of my jumbled thoughts on Toy Story 3. And Lotso is fine. I think I liked him when he was introduced, but yeah, I don't know, just for whatever reason, this movie just is kind of there and it's fine, but it really doesn't do much for me except for the last 5 minutes.

Alex Howard
I kind of agree with you about like, I can see where the pacing issues come in in the middle. Like the daycare stuff is a little bit slower, but God, I think the end is just so like getting older about like, you know, things don't last forever. It's just so poignant and just says so much about aging. I just feel like, oh my God, it brings so much to— it almost makes the franchise more mature, if that makes sense. But I totally— I respect your opinion. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I respect it.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I feel like this is probably one of our biggest disagreements, not necessarily in a contentious way, but in a way that we both feel very strongly about this movie just on very different ends of the spectrum, which makes debating these things and talking about these things really fun because it's not just cookie cutter, one opinion is the same as the other.

Alex Howard
Oh, for sure. And I know this is one of your hottest takes, so.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah. And I know that all you listeners out there are probably going to be like, how dare he say something like this about Toy Story 3? And if you have that opinion, once again, I fully respect it. And you are entitled to fully disagree with me and think I'm in the wrong, but I will still stand by my opinion that Toy Story 3 is mediocre with the exception of the last 5 minutes.

Alex Howard
So where does it rank for you then?

Lee Pugsley
This is such a tough call. Um, I was debating between does it rank in my 3rd place or my 4th place, and as at this very moment, this could flip-flop back and forth, I'm gonna have to put it at number 4. Wow.

Alex Howard
Okay. So yeah, this was my number 1. Do you have anything else to say on 3?

Lee Pugsley
I'm curious to know, what are some of your favorite moments from Toy Story 3?

Alex Howard
I mean, the end is definitely my favorite moment, but, um, yeah, I think Spanish Buzz I thought was so cute. And like you said, the Ken and Barbie stuff I thought was hilarious. But yeah, I think those are the moments for me.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I would say that 2 of those moments, the end for sure, and then the Ken and Barbie stuff, those are the standout moments for me. And to keep it real, I was emotional during the end of Toy Story 3. Like, I felt the emotion, and Pixar did succeed in getting me to feel something at the end. So I may come across very heartless on this film, but I'm not completely heartless. I still have a little bit of a heart for the movie. It's just not as strong as most other people.

Alex Howard
Oh yeah, one of my favorite things is crying in movies. If a movie can make me cry I'm like, "I'll love you forever." And this was definitely an early one for me where I was like, "Oh man, I'm feeling things."

Lee Pugsley
And to your point too, I do agree that this movie, the ending felt earned. It wasn't a manipulative Pixar thing like they can be known for after this franchise, where they're like, "We're going to intentionally make you cry." But they earned the moment at the end of Toy Story 3.

Alex Howard
And I do think— I haven't watched it a lot since 4 and 5 came out, but I think the emotional punch was bigger when there wasn't 4 or 5 because we thought we were saying goodbye to them too. And I do think it's still emotional because Andy's saying goodbye and all of that, like the emotions are still there, but it's not as strong because we know that the franchise does go on.

Lee Pugsley
So true. And that was my initial thought too when I heard that they were making a Toy Story 4, is it kind of weakens the impact of Toy Story 3. If they would have just ended it after Toy Story 3, I do think that would have been a nearly perfect cycle or trilogy.

Alex Howard
Mm-hmm.

Lee Pugsley
But alas, they did do Toy Story 4, which we can talk about now. This movie came out in 2019. It did win the Best Animated Feature at the Oscars. In my opinion, I would have given the Oscar to Klaus. But once again, that is my opinion. Other people may disagree. So here's what I'll say about Toy Story 4. From an animation point of view, it looked gorgeous. Like, you know, the scenes with the rain or when the toys go to the place where Gabby Gabby is, that store, and you see like, you know, the toys in the windows, it kind of looks very horror-esque. So I think from an animation point of view, the animation on all of these movies just keeps getting better and better. So I applaud the visual aspects of Toy Story 4. That being said, this film, in my opinion, I don't feel like it really does enough to justify its existence fully. I think there's some fun humor with the new characters, especially like Duke Caboom, the Keanu Reeves character, and the Key and Peele characters. They really do add a lot of fun humor to the story. I kind of feel like Forky was a little obnoxious to me, and I don't know, I kind of verge on, okay, he's kind of lovable, to, ah, you're just so annoying, just like go away and stay in the trash can.

My other issues with Toy Story 4 though are I think that the other toys had a lot more involvement in the human world, especially when the humans are driving the van and the toys are basically taking over. I feel like in the other Toy Story movies there's a certain level of involvement that they're allowed to have within the human world, but I think they just kind of overstepped their boundaries in Toy Story 4, and it didn't feel as consistent as the world that they had built before that. My other issues are that Buzz really does nothing, and he kind of seems a little dumb or incompetent through the whole movie. I mean, we barely see him, but when we do see him, he really serves no purpose. And then Gabby Gabby taking out Woody's voice box. Like, I just think that's actually really cruel. And if this was like a live-action movie, I don't know, it kind of reminds me of like organ harvesting or something. And then not only does she do that, but she doesn't have remorse for it. And then she also gets found by an owner, and so she gets what she wants, but there's no apology, there's no remorse. I wanted to see some recompense for her.

And then last, and this is probably the biggest issue I have with Toy Story 4, is Woody leaving to be with Bo Peep. And I know that some people can make the argument that it's about letting go and moving on. Totally get where those people are coming from. But for me, that just kind of goes against everything that Woody stands for, which is unity. No toy gets left behind. We all stay together. We're a team. And then he's like, oh, I'm just going to go do my own thing now. And that just didn't work for me. It felt like Woody was giving up all of his convictions and basically undoing everything that was done in the first 3 Toy Story movies. So that's my very brief discourse on Toy Story 4 and why it's at the bottom of my list in the number 5th place.

Alex Howard
Yeah, it's in, it's in my 5th place too. I don't think it's horrible. Like, I, I was entertained while I was watching it. I honestly don't remember very much of it. I rewatched about half of it before this recording. Like, I wouldn't have remembered that Buzz was kind of sidelined.

Lee Pugsley
And let me just interject really quick, there's a reason you don't remember most of it.

Alex Howard
[laughs] But like, even the worst Toy Story movie, which is Toy Story 4, it's still a good movie in terms of animated movies. It has more substance than I'd say a lot of other animated movies. But like, it's definitely the weakest one. I see why they did the thing with Woody leaving the group. In the, in the moment in the theater, I was kind of like, I don't know how I feel about this. And I was tearing up, but it felt like, uh, we want to make you cry again like we did in 3, so we're gonna do this thing. And like, I get, yeah, he's getting older and he has to move on in a different stage of life. Yeah, it didn't feel like it fit with his character that well. So I was, I was lukewarm on Toy Story 4 as well. It's not one that I revisit a lot.

Lee Pugsley
The other thing I do have to say is at the end Buzz and Woody kind of do a thumbs up like, "To infinity and beyond!" And I'm like, that seems just like so cheap. Like you're signaling, look, we made another Toy Story movie, but the relationship between Buzz and Woody was pretty non-existent in Toy Story 4. So I'm like, you did not earn that. You're just doing that to try to make it seem cooler than it is.

Alex Howard
Well, I think to be fair, I think they were banking on the relationship they'd built over the last 3 movies. And then 4, I think, was more about Woody and Bo Peep, which kind of— I mean, they had alluded to it in the other movies, but it kind of— their relationships seemed a lot stronger than they had made it out to be in the other ones.

Lee Pugsley
Agreed. And to be fair, like you were saying, because the bar for the Toy Story movies, the first 2 especially, is so high, I am being overly critical than I would be on other franchises just because there is a lot to appreciate about these movies. So like you're saying, the worst Toy Story movie is still not a terrible movie by any means, but this one felt more like a direct-to-DVD sequel if that was still a thing that we had.

Alex Howard
Yeah, I, I, I, I can see that. Yeah.

Lee Pugsley
All right, so now we have one more Toy Story movie to discuss, which is the recent movie Toy Story 5. And Alex, I'll let start, uh, with your thoughts on this one.

Alex Howard
Yeah, so I mean, this one's made over $800 million, so I know there aren't a lot of people who haven't seen it. But if you haven't seen it and you don't want spoilers, come back and finish this episode after you've watched it. But I really like Toy Story 5. It's not up to the bar of 3 or 2 or 1 for me, but it's much better than 4. I, and I was a little worried because I thought I had heard that Jessie is the main character and Woody and Buzz are kind of side characters. I was like, how's that gonna work? But it really worked for me. I, I really like this movie. I thought they were gonna— what I thought they were gonna do was have Jessie choose between who's— who was her original human? Emily. I thought they were gonna have Jessie choose between Emily's daughter and Bonnie, and I was like, I was ready to be a mess, but they didn't do that. Thankfully. So I definitely like got misty-eyed. I didn't full-on cry, but the whole thing about Emily naming her daughter Jessie, I thought was really sweet and really cute and really brought Jessie to a full circle moment because she thought she had been abandoned and, you know, given up, left on the side of the road, which she was, but she didn't realize how much of an impact she had on Emily. So that was really, really sweet.

And I thought it was very poignant and relevant to have this movie be about screens because I know having a 6-year-old, kids are all about their screens now and they're not playing with physical toys as much as they used to. So I thought that that was a great— if there ever was a reason to make another Toy Story movie, this is a great reason to do so. And they had a lot of things to say about that. So that was really interesting.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, I agree with a lot of your thoughts. I think that Toy Story 5, objectively speaking, does not hold up to the same level as Toy Story 1 through 3. That being said, I may have personally enjoyed Toy Story 5 more than Toy Story 3 by a little bit. What I really liked about Toy Story 5, and maybe the reason I'm more forgiving of it, is because it's not a Buzz and Woody story so much because they're the peripheral characters, but it's a Jessie story. And because Jessie has such a strong resonance in Toy Story 2 specifically, I thought they really brought around her character so nicely within Toy Story 5 and even did a few callbacks to Toy Story 2 and her character there. And I think she has a really nice arc of learning the lessons of, hey, our purpose is just to be there for our kids when they need us. But they're going to grow up and they're going to move on. And that's OK. And coming to that realization, that peace of mind, and kind of— rediscovering what purpose is. I think that that's really relatable to all of us because that's stuff that we grapple with all the time.

I agree with you that the reveal of Emily naming her daughter after Jessie was emotional, and it really did hit in the ways that it needed to. And even the beginning of the movie, when you hear the first few chords of "When She Loved Me" and you hear that playing in the background and you see the tire swing, it just takes you to an emotional place right away. Beyond that though, I was concerned that the tech message was gonna be very heavy-handed and it was just either gonna be bashing tech or defending tech. And I felt like there was a nice balance of understanding that technology in and of itself is not bad. The way that you use it can keep you from human connection and human connection and play matters just as much as having technology that can also be there to help you as well. Cuz you see the benefits of, technology being able to reach, you know, Bonnie and Blaze and getting the toys back together. So you do see that there is a benefit to technology, but that's also not the be-all end-all. And I think that they balanced those things really well.

I thought that the characters of Lilypad and Smarty Pants were both really fun, and they added a lot to the story. And even like the fact that Lilypad had a moment of remorse when she realized the damage that she had caused to the connection between Bonnie and her friends in dance class. And yeah, I really enjoyed this movie as a whole. I think that it feels mature, and I liked the new characters as well. I think that the only issue though is that I really do miss spending time with the older characters like Ham and Rex and Slinky and all of those characters, and they were very much peripheral. And I just wish that they would have been more a part of the supporting group of characters that we could have gotten more time with.

Alex Howard
That's very true. This one was more spent away from the main group. Um, I think if there was any weakness, it was the Buzz storyline with all of the rogue Buzzes that trapped on the island. And I thought that storyline was a little weak, but then the end, the payoff of that, I thought was really good. Where they went to all the different kids. I thought that was cute. But you're right, I, I do wish we got more of the, the core Toy Story group.

Lee Pugsley
And yeah, to comment on what you just said about the Buzz storyline, I feel like if they make other Toy Story movies, which I'm sure they will, the multiple Buzzes that they've done in Toy Story 2 and Toy Story 5, after a while just feels a bit gimmicky, and I think that they should stray away from doing that more. It's fine in Toy Story 2, I guess. In Toy Story 5, it's also not the end of the world, but I do think that that storyline kind of slowed pacing down just ever so slightly, or was the storyline that I was least interested in.

Alex Howard
Yeah, yeah. Um, one question for you. I saw a TikTok the other day this girl said that she interpreted it as Emily's daughter died and that's why she had a thing buried under the tree. And I was like, the people with her were like, we didn't see that at all. I didn't interpret it that way. Did you?

Lee Pugsley
No, I would have never interpreted it that way. I feel like I could see how someone could interpret it that way. That's not the way that I would choose to interpret it, nor is it the way that I want to interpret it, because that would just be so grim. On that note, though, I think that it would have been really cool if at the end of the movie it showed Blaze and Bonnie playing on the tire swing with Jessie and Bullseye. I think that would have just been a really nice full circle moment.

Alex Howard
Yeah, I overall was very positive on Toy Story 5. Um, so this was my number 4. What number was it for you?

Lee Pugsley
This would be number 3. And it's also really funny, as Alex can attest to, because he knew that I was kind of dreading Toy Story 5, and he was so curious to know, like, my thoughts on this movie because I've spoken so lowly of Toy Story 3 and Toy Story 4, uh, that now it's been revealed.

Alex Howard
Well, I'm glad that this one, uh, won you over again. So if there is a Toy Story 6, will you be more confident or inclined to see it since you like, Toy Story 5 kind of went back up for you a little bit?

Lee Pugsley
I will be more open to seeing it instead of bashing it before I know what it actually is. So yes, it did kind of win me back a little bit. I wouldn't say like to the fullest degree, but I definitely am open to more Toy Story movies.

Alex Howard
Okay. Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure we'll get one in the 2030s at some point. So what is your— to wrap up, what is your ranking if you want to rank all of them?

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, so my overall Toy Story ranking would be number 1, Toy Story 2, number 2, Toy Story, number 3, Toy Story 5, number 4, Toy Story 3, and number 5, Toy Story 4. And what about you?

Alex Howard
So my number 1 is Toy Story 3, number 2 is the original Toy Story, number 3 is Toy Story 2, number 4 is Toy Story 5, and number 5 is Toy Story 4. [laughs]

Lee Pugsley
So we have 2 in common, which is not bad when we have 5 movies.

Alex Howard
Yeah.

Lee Pugsley
Well, thank you guys so much for listening, and we'd love to hear from you and know what your Toy Story rankings are, if you have any specific thoughts or favorite moments from any of the Toy Story movies, and what resonates with you about this franchise. Uh, you can email us at DarkRoomFilmCast@gmail.com. Once again, that's Dark Room Film Cast@gmail.com. And you can also follow us on Instagram @DarkRoom FilmCast and subscribe to our YouTube channel at DarkRoomFilmCast.

Alex Howard
Yeah, and like Lee said, we'd love to hear your ranking of the Toy Story movies. We would love to hear what else you'd like to hear us rank as well. We love doing these ranking videos. If you want to hear our opinion on any of their franchises or any other stuff, if you want to email us some episode suggestions, we would love that. And if you haven't seen all the Toy Story movies, we highly recommend them. They're all streaming on Disney+ with AD, at least 1 through 4. And number 5 is in theaters now with AD.

Lee Pugsley
Yeah, so go ahead and check them out. Or even if you haven't watched them in a while, they're always fun to go back and revisit because they do have so much rewatchability as a whole. And we'd like to thank Matt Lauterbach and All Senses Go for making transcripts of this episode possible, and our editor, Jamie Gagnon.

Alex Howard
Thanks for listening, everyone, and we'll see you next time in The Dark Room.

Lee Pugsley
Take care, guys.