Zombie Book Club

In The Flesh with special guest OllieEatsBrains | Zombie Book Club Ep 123

• Zombie Book Club • Season 3 • Episode 123

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We dive into BBC’s In The Flesh, the gritty British drama that uses “Partially Deceased Syndrome” as a razor‑sharp metaphor for identity, conformity and the politics of “passing”. From Kieren Walker’s quiet grief to the radical undead sect that rejects the cure, we unpack how the series blends horror, queer allegory and social critique, weighing the strengths of season 1 against the uneven twists of season 2.

Our longtime friend OllieEatsBrains joins the chair to share life updates—moving across the country, new job, recent adoption, and the launch of the MAZE comic Kickstarter. Ollie explains why the story shifted from prose to graphic form, highlights artist Fede’s striking style, and teases the next chapter of the MAZE universe, tying the comic’s themes of label‑rebellion back to the zombie‑politics of In The Flesh.

Contact & relevant links

Click here to back Ollies 'MAZE 1: Staken; Not Stirred' on kickstarter

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ollieeatsbrains/maze-1-staken-not-stirred


Help Keep Zombie Book Club alive!!! - https://www.gofundme.com/f/keep-zombie-book-club-alive



Zombie Book Club Links

SPEAKER_01:

Well of the zombie book club, the only book club where the book is a TV show, and the TV show is about living inside of a suit made of flesh. I think. Citation needed. I'm Dan, and when I'm not living inside of my own flesh suit, I'm writing a book about a zombie apocalypse, and I could say more, but in light of the fact that I just deleted 24,011 words this week, I feel like whatever I say might be misleading in the future. R.I.P. 24,000 words. You will not be missed.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm Ollie, and when I'm not smurfing in Smurfleton, I'm smurfing over on Smurfing Bill.

SPEAKER_04:

And if that makes no sense, you need to read the Smurple Perfs. I'm Leah, and today we're supposed to talk about the Smurple Perfs. It is actually the purple Smurfs, but Ollie keeps changing it in our show notes. So Smurple Perfs, it is. This is what we get for giving Ollie access to our notes. It's dangerous. But instead, you know by now. I but this is what makes it fun. I uh was supposed to read that. Both Dan are supposed to read that, but I went into a 48-hour binger and forgot to eat, sleep, or read. What were you binging? Mushrooms. Cocaine? Mushrooms. But not consuming them. Star heroin? That sounds horrible. No, just making mushrooms and making a really weird mushroom crown that no one will ever buy. But I like it.

SPEAKER_01:

I think it's really cool.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Maybe maybe somebody who wants to be an elf will buy it one day.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Um, today, we're this isn't a casual dead episode. It's super casual, as you can already tell. We're so far off script. Um, and we're talking with our original zombesti, the creator of the zombesti, um, Oliver Gray, also known as Ollie Eats Brains. Um, and instead of Smurple Perfs, uh, we're talking about the TV show in the flesh. We're not talking about the Smurfs, we're talking about a TV show. We're just gonna have to have a lot of purfs now. Yeah, so it's a show. It's a show about a guy trapped in a flesh suit, right? So aren't we all? Yeah, we are. We release episodes every Sunday. So Subway? Five dollar footlong. Half of the joke was deleted. I don't know what happened to it. We had this whole thing. Rest in peace,$5 Subway footlong. Remember when footlongs cost five dollars at Subway? Rest in peace. That's what this podcast is about now. We talk about uh subway sandwiches.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, you had a different word for subscribe you wanted to use.

SPEAKER_00:

Subscribity. Is this kids?

SPEAKER_04:

Uh six seven.

SPEAKER_00:

This is why you know why it's six seven?

SPEAKER_04:

Say that again.

SPEAKER_00:

You know why it's six seven?

SPEAKER_04:

Uh I was told and already forgot forgot. 42, which is the meaning of life. The answer. Exactly. But what's the question?

SPEAKER_00:

The ultimate answer. How many roads must a man walk down?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I think that's it. 42.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Well then I should be God. I've walked at least 42 roads. It's but it's exact. Oh. You can't walk more than that. Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Um unfortunately, when you were reading original Zombesti, I had a coughing fit uh because I was just gonna shout, suck it, Lori.

SPEAKER_04:

And why would you say suck it to our good zombesti, Lori Calcatara? Are you wanting to have a submarine slam down? Are you going to, I don't know, shave the hair off your head?

SPEAKER_00:

I don't have a mustache to shave. Okay. I have nothing to lose.

SPEAKER_04:

Are you are you officially challenging Lori right now, Oliver?

SPEAKER_00:

No.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay.

unknown:

Wow.

SPEAKER_04:

If you have no idea what we're talking about. That is a terrifying thought. Lori, we tremble before thee. Uh, for those who are really confused, this summer we had a summer ween slam down where Brandon Staraki of Avalon Comic challenged Lori Calcatera for her zombie wean game show crown that she won fair and square in 2023, but Brandon lost. You should listen to it. It's episode And she took his mustache. I don't know what episode it is. Google it.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Find it. Spoiler alert. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

We just told you how it ended.

SPEAKER_04:

So Ollie.

SPEAKER_00:

So somewhere between episode one and a hundred, I believe.

SPEAKER_04:

Somewhere like that. Yeah. Oh, I know it's after a hundred, actually. I know that for a fact. Yeah. So after a hundred.

SPEAKER_00:

Somewhere between 100 and 200, I believe.

SPEAKER_01:

Somewhere in there, yeah. Um, life updates, Leah and Ollie. Uh we we have life updates.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, mostly I think we need Oliver life updates because this is our first time using our mouths to talk in quite a while.

SPEAKER_03:

It's true.

SPEAKER_04:

Um, Oliver, the last the last time you were here was January 5th, 2025 for our 2024 recap. Where have you been?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh well, I think back then I was still in California. Uh, since then I've moved to Missouri. I've gotten a new job, I've purchased a home, I've launched a Kickstarter for a comic book and uh adopted a child. Wow. That's a that's very busy. No big deal, that last one.

SPEAKER_01:

I can't help but notice that you left um California. But yeah, if I'm mistaken, uh if I'm not mistaken, weren't there fires in California?

SPEAKER_00:

There were.

SPEAKER_01:

Did you start those fires?

SPEAKER_00:

There is a reason I left California, but uh I can't get into details for legal purposes. Okay, fair enough.

SPEAKER_04:

Do you enjoy fire, Oliver?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, as it so happens, just last night we did start our first fire in the backyard. Are all the trees okay? The trees are uh mostly okay. Yeah, except for the ones that were in the fire.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Which is how it goes with fire. Um so although we did notice uh about 15 minutes into the fire that the tree that there is a tree with a branch that's like just 15 feet above the fire, and that made us a little worried, but yeah, nothing nothing came of it.

SPEAKER_04:

I think that that limb is offering itself to be a part of the fire. You gotta cut it down.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Um nice limb though.

SPEAKER_01:

Nice limbs. Looks creepy. I got some updates. You got some updates? Yeah. I'm finally unemployed. Yeah, it's about time. Um, I've uh worked really hard to get to where I'm at right now. Um, so I would like to thank everybody for helping me become unemployed. Thank you. Thanks, everybody.

SPEAKER_00:

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_04:

Oliver, you were irresponsible?

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. Yeah, I've made the call.

SPEAKER_04:

Called Dan's boss and was like, look, I'm sick of listening to this man complain about working.

SPEAKER_00:

Unemployed him. That our schedules are so out of balance that we don't have time for any any conversations or board games.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's why we that's why we haven't talked since January.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, we did talk briefly the summer. Well, we talked uh we were doing a little bit of my very first experience of RPG. But then, Dan, you had to go back to work.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that was in April.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, we were playing some some dungeons and and our dragons. Um, I played a dungeon. I played a dragon. Leo is a dragon.

SPEAKER_00:

I played an and.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, so yeah, so now that I'm unemployed, I've gotten back into the swing of writing really slowly. Um, you know, my my my word count is in the negatives, so I'm doing great.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, uh on the note of Dungeons Dragons, I'm actually writing a new campaign, which is a a D prequel to Maze. I didn't know it was a DD prequel. Well, it's not really DD, it's it's my own developed uh game system, but it is a prequel to maze, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I did not realize that. That's really exciting. What is Maze for those of us who may have forgotten uh and or not listened to episode 58, which you should go listen to, everybody.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, it's it's a series of stories I wrote on my website, Maze, uh monsters, aliens, zombies, etc.

SPEAKER_04:

And the main character Claire is becomes a am I allowed to reveal what they become? Or should I keep my?

SPEAKER_00:

I think we discussed it pretty thoroughly in the last episode.

SPEAKER_04:

You're right. So they become a half zombie, half vampire, which is the first.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so uh they they were a vampire hunter who had an unfortunate encounter with a vampire, and uh before that could take effect, they also were infected with the zombie virus, and so now they are some weird hybrid.

SPEAKER_04:

Also, there's aliens, hence the A in maze. There are aliens, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh that part isn't quite as well flushed out as the rest of it, but uh they they are in the story, yes.

SPEAKER_01:

They are coming, yes. There's more for them. Yeah, I mean this is a pretty exciting thing because you've you've decided to make it into a comic.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that was just some very random decision I made uh just last week or the week before. I was literally uh at work just driving around and and instead of like so when I write, I usually have like movies playing in my head that I'm just trying to relate into words instead.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And then instead of a movie, I had graphic images like a comic book. And then I was like, wow, you know, this actually works a lot better, and um it's a lot easier for me because now I can just throw the idea out there and make the artist worry about the translation instead of having to uh write it myself.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, we did get a perk of your visualizations because um when our dog died, you were very kind and said, here's some top secret things to make you feel better, which did distract me temporarily and I'm appreciative of. Um and what I remember from them is like a really giant foot.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yeah, that was uh that was from my my uh disgusting terrible scribbles that I have sent to the artist. And uh yeah, that's that's the scene um where they've got their boot up trying to find extra cash to pay the bartender. That was an epic scene. Yeah. That's actually potentially going to become a poster if if I get around to it.

SPEAKER_04:

That would be the dream is to have some original uh feedy art. It's feedy, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Fidi or Fede, I don't know their name. I think it's Fede.

SPEAKER_04:

I think this is the moment where we should introduce Fidi, the artist.

SPEAKER_00:

Tell us about actually, no, it might be Fede, because I'm pretty sure it's short short for Federico.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay, well, Fede Feedy. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, please come on the show and tell us what your name actually is, because Oliver doesn't know.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh Fede is my artist friend. They're from Argentina, and I've known them for a few years now, and and uh I just threw some ideas at them and said, Yes, I can do this.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, and they're incredible. Like they've made little images of you as Ollie Eats Brains. Your icon on Discord is iconic. It's so freaking cute. Like you're telling you I want a sticker, please. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

Sure. I will make it happen.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, but it's like without seeing Fede's art style, how would you describe it? Because it's pretty unique.

SPEAKER_00:

Um kind of scribbly.

SPEAKER_04:

But not, okay, I just need to clarify people.

SPEAKER_00:

Not like toddler scribbly. Like no, it's not toddler scribbly. It's it's got like it's almost got like a kind of I don't know, unfinished quality to it that I really enjoy. Um it's not like clean lines and perfect art like you'll see in a lot of comic books. It's um, I don't know, I'm a writer. I don't know how to describe things.

SPEAKER_04:

This is why you're paying Fede. Don't ask me to use words to explain things.

SPEAKER_01:

What do you think I am?

SPEAKER_04:

Some kind of I would say the scribbliness word drawer? Yeah, I mean, isn't that what you are both as writers? I don't know. But I would say it's kind of got like a uh the scribbliness gives a sense of movement. Also, all of Fede's characters are um badass looking with really great outfits that I wish I could pull off. Like Claire's pants, I want them. I don't know if Fede also sews, but I would like a custom outfit.

SPEAKER_01:

Can that be a a stretch goal? Yeah. That we get we get Claire's pants. A cosplay of Claire.

SPEAKER_00:

Sure.

SPEAKER_01:

Replacing the plant the pants.

SPEAKER_00:

Fede might not not sew, but JC does. They uh they are they do make costumes for Renaissance fairs and uh they've made wedding gowns in the past. Wow, JC by the way, is my spouse.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, we love JC. Hi JC.

SPEAKER_00:

Hi, JC.

SPEAKER_04:

JC, please make um uh a one-of-a-kind Claire cosplay costume as a stretch goal.

SPEAKER_01:

And send it to Leah.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um so that Leah can wear it as unironic normal clothes every day. Basically.

SPEAKER_04:

Although I don't think I'm nearly as cool as Claire. Although Claire, I think, is I love Claire because they are awkward but also adorable and dangerous.

SPEAKER_00:

Claire also thinks they're a lot cooler than they actually are too.

SPEAKER_04:

That is true. So what's the Kickstarter for?

SPEAKER_00:

It's mostly just the pay payday. Um and get me a couple bucks in my back pocket so I can take a day or two off to uh to translate all my stories into a script for them so they can convert it into artwork. Because um as my my short video says, my my doodles are basically just scribbles and stick figures that look like they've gotten to a fight with spaghetti. Uh that's the extent of my artistic skill there, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01:

So I'm in a similar boat.

SPEAKER_00:

So I need money to pay Faye, because Fede has a life also and has to to take time. They're probably gonna take a couple days out of a month off, nearly nearly a month, to uh to just work on that straight through.

SPEAKER_04:

Wow. And uh how close are you to your goal right now?

SPEAKER_00:

Last I checked, we were just shy of 40%.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh my gosh, that's close, people.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, considering it's been, I think, just barely a week. I think it'll be a week on Friday or Saturday.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I I also love that um before you even announced that that you had this Kickstarter, you were already receiving uh pledges.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I didn't so I launched it, I think I don't remember when exactly I launched it, but I launched it. And then the I was going to wait until Sunday to have any sort of announcements because not only were you guys putting the audio clip in your podcast, um, I had someone else who had reached out from a comics Kickstarter podcast who wanted to put that audio clip in theirs too. So that got out there too. And so I was just gonna wait until Sunday and then just run a massive promo all over my socials. And before it like even got through one day, it was already 30% like uh about 23% funded, I think it was. Did that surprise you? Because it doesn't surprise me. It definitely surprised me because usually all when I need things done, it's always like friends and family that throw money at me to to make me do stuff. But this was just absolute complete strangers who just saw the Kickstarter, thought it looked interesting, and decided to invest in it. And yeah, that shocked me.

SPEAKER_04:

That is I mean, that is really cool. Did it put you at risk of coming back to life? Did your heart beat? Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

My my heart, my heart nearly fell out, honestly. It just almost threw that up. Yeah, I mean, but that's normal.

SPEAKER_04:

I wouldn't worry about it. Stay in a life for Ollie. Ollie is a zombie, by the way. Yeah, if you don't know that, again, go listen to episode 58. I feel like we have to. You'll know their origin story. Uh, what is your deepest, darkest, most secret fantasy that you're going to reveal right now, right here, for what you hope will happen with your maze comic series that people should help you out with?

SPEAKER_00:

Thank you for clarifying. Um well, I would love to get over invested in this so that not only can I release the PDF version, but I can go straight into a print version and get that out. I don't know the logistics of getting signed versions because you know Fay Day is out in in Argentina, so I would have to go to them and me and then go out to the recipients. So I don't know how that would work out. So signed is off the table for now. But yeah, if I could get into a print media right away, that would be awesome. I would love to do that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And I mean, maybe maybe signed just isn't in in in the in the works until like, you know, un unless you hit like a really big goal where you can actually send like a pretty sizable package all the way to Argentina and then back.

SPEAKER_04:

I have a much more super top secret fantasy for this now, which is that we raise enough money that not only can you do all that, but you can also take and record a trip to Argentina.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Oh, I was gonna say new stretch goal. Um, if we make enough, I'm going to uh purchase beauty and have them moved out here. Purchase You're just gonna own Visa.

SPEAKER_04:

I'm not gonna oh Oliver. Look, it's outside of the box thinking. I mean, we could probably find them a spouse to help with the 90-day visa. Oh, right. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

The visa, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

That's what I was going for, yes. Um yeah. I started thinking before I had anything to say. Or I started talking before I had any thoughts.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, I have a thought, which is that you should go back this Kickstarter like now. Um, we need it. The people need it. There's a reason why we have it as our mid-roll for every single episode, which is that we need it, and so do you. So go, go, go get it. And then we can talk more about it once it's out, Ollie.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. This is also the first time that we've done um ad rolls for uh things that weren't us. Yeah. We did one before, and that's just because uh our financial situation got bad and we had to figure out how to pay for the podcast. Yeah, thanks everybody, by the way, again. Um, so this is kind of like a first because this is just something that we that we want to support because it's Ollie, and Ollie is great and a zombie. Ollie is great.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, this is our this will be our first Kickstarter backing of a zombie about a half zombie, half vampire. It is a first on Zombie Book Club podcast right now.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Uh it's kind of interesting that a zombie is like, what if I was also a vampire?

SPEAKER_00:

That is all this the story is. It's how I imagine my life and existence would be if I were also a vampire and also had magic.

SPEAKER_01:

Um so yeah, it's I I think it's I think it's really amazing. I I hope that uh really amazing things happen because I think it's a great story, and um, and also I just genuinely want to see you succeed.

SPEAKER_00:

I want to see me succeed too. So we're on the same page. Yeah, we're in agreement.

SPEAKER_04:

Oliver's already successful. How are we determining success now? Uh well, I'm talking about this project. Okay, money. Yeah. I also want that for you, Oliver. And me too.

SPEAKER_00:

The American way?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Money, money, money, money.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, if we're just talking spreadsheets, yes. Ollie is very successful in spreadsheets.

SPEAKER_00:

Very rich in spreadsheets.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. Um, for people who don't know, Ollie has created one of the the most comprehensive spreadsheets about zombie books, movies, TV shows, uh games. Am I missing anything? Podcasts.

SPEAKER_04:

Podcasts. Oliver, you need to go and get on the world's book of records as most comprehensive list of all zombie media.

SPEAKER_00:

I would love to, but I will have to say that it is losing its comprehension because I don't think I've actually updated it in a few months.

SPEAKER_04:

It's okay. Just submit it as it is. It's good. It's got to be a good idea.

SPEAKER_00:

I wanted to use it. I I wanted to use it as a means of getting into the zombie research society, but I can't seem to get a hold of anybody in there.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I remember when we first heard of you, you'd sent us a note and I was like, Oh, you should work for them. And I was like, no. Yeah. I want to keep Ollie's unpaid labor for ourselves.

SPEAKER_01:

For ourselves. And here we are. So that those sons of bitches of the Zombie Research Society who we should probably also interview. Yeah, who are probably very nice people. Don't get their deep claws into Ollie and tear them away from us. Like a zombie. Like how a zombie would. Yeah, all of the intestines on the floor.

SPEAKER_00:

All I really want from them is a membership card anyway.

SPEAKER_04:

That'd be cool. Yeah. Do you want a membership card from us? Sure. Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Well, I want a zombie book club membership card.

SPEAKER_04:

It's exclusive. You can't be members of anything else, though.

SPEAKER_01:

I didn't know I didn't realize that this is all we had to do for just permanent loyalty. Um I think we should get into In the Flesh. Yeah. Tell me about this uh flesh suit.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, only well, back in the old days, there was this show called Silence of the Lambs, and that's where the idea came from.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, actually, that came from Ed Gean, even further back. The notorious seal. The notorious serial killer who made human suits, and also was the origin of the movie Psycho.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Yep. And uh the Halloween movies.

SPEAKER_00:

So it's further back. That was the new show Monster is about. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. Well that that's what we're referencing. I think we watched that recently.

SPEAKER_04:

I actually kind of regret watching it because uh I'll never unsee those things. And also I had really weird thoughts after. Like maybe I should keep my deceased dog's ears because they were soft. And like these are thoughts that I feel like wouldn't have crossed my mind if I hadn't watched hours of somebody dismembering people.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I think Ed Gean was like really ahead of his time. A visionary.

SPEAKER_04:

A visionary. Completely different from In the Flesh, the show.

SPEAKER_01:

Which Oh, it's different.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Which we really what's the difference between him and Frankenstein, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Except like Frankenstein is made of different parts of people, and Ed Gean just collected different parts. Well, Frankenstein is the maker of the person. Oh my god, I did the thing. You did the thing. I did the thing where I'm I called Frankenstein's monster Frankenstein.

SPEAKER_00:

It's really the edited version of the book where at the very end, uh Frankenstein's monster is leaving, and he says, Oh, you can call me Frankenstein, by the way. It's okay.

SPEAKER_04:

I did. I think I saw it on your Instagram, actually. Oliver, what's in the flesh? You're the one who told us about it.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh in the flesh is a show from BBC that follows uh the returned dead after a cure has been found and they uh regain consciousness and now have to try to re-acclimate to society. Uh, with I might be mixing this up with the cure, where they they because they've got all the memories from everything they've done in the past. And so they're trying to deal with the memories while also trying to deal with the people who suffered from being attacked by zombies. I feel I started off strong and I lost it.

SPEAKER_04:

I was actually really impressed with this off the cuff.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I answered I'm I'm for I think you hit most of the the major points. Um, it's about former zombies um you know rehabilitating into life uh in normal life post post the apocalypse. Not post-apocalypse, but it's like after the apocalypse.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, like things have returned to normal. Kids are going to school.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, like got better. Yeah. Did it get better? Um and they uh the the people, the the zombies, they're still dead, um, but they have to take medication that they get through their spinal cord every single day.

SPEAKER_04:

Looks really uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01:

Make sure that they don't go rabid. Um, they have to put on makeup and wear contact lenses and uh pretend to be alive.

SPEAKER_00:

It's about conformity.

SPEAKER_04:

It is.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And the main the main character is Kieran Walker, a sensitive this is uh a direct quote, a sensitive teen who died by suicide before the rising. It's called the rising. So also what's unique about these zombies is like uh it seems like there was one day, one event where all the zombies showed up, and then that was it. They crawled out of their graves. And unlike a lot of the stigmatization of the partially deceased syndrome sufferers, uh, if you get bit by somebody who is a zombie, you don't become one.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

It's like this one event that happened.

SPEAKER_01:

But for some reason, like four years after the the rising, people still think that if you get bit by a zombie, you turn into one. There's a lot of misinformation. People believe crazy things. They're like, I've seen the movies. I know how it works.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I was just gonna say, it makes me wonder if if this is a movie world where zombies are known. I think so before they arrive.

SPEAKER_01:

Because they do they at like what they mentioned that everybody knows that if zombie if a zombie bites you, you turn into a zombie. But didn't they use the word rotter? Yeah, they call them they call them rotters, they call them uh rabid. Um they call them all kinds of all kinds of names.

SPEAKER_04:

They're slurs against the partially deceased syndrome sufferers. Yeah. P DSS.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Uh and then, you know, the the the zombies that are re-integrating into society don't like being called rotters. They don't some of them don't even like being called zombies. They're like, that's that's their word.

SPEAKER_04:

I think what's um good for us to put right on the table now is that there's sort of two extreme groups on either side. So you have the PDSS people, uh, the undead, who are uh rejecting the use of this drug, making their own home brew of it, which is a little disturbing. You mean and they believe that they're like a superior species, basically. Would you agree with that, Ollie? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um it does seem like some like there is a definitely a sub section of the undead who seem to believe that they are the next evolution of life.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. And they're like hoping for a second coming. And then what's the human? I feel like they're cults. What's the human cult again called?

SPEAKER_00:

Anybody remember? It's in the notes. I'm searching. See if I can find it before you guys.

SPEAKER_01:

Human volunteer force. That's it. The monster squad.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh which actually kind of felt a lot like the IRA in a lot of ways. Um, like it was uh it's a militia, they're just kind of like formed from people in the community, and it's still even though the zombies are no longer a threat, um, they still kind of exist. Like the members are out there, even though you know, like support for what they do is kind of waning.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, there's also a subsection of that group that seemed to be uh actively hateful against Roder as they seek them out and try to like eliminate them, even the ones who are are cured.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I mean, at the beginning, it kind of feels like most of them are on are are in that camp.

SPEAKER_04:

Most of them are Nazis, either casual Nazis or out there hunting the PDSS folks. I feel like that's like the closest. Am I am I taking it a step too far? But I feel like No, I think that's pretty accurate. Yeah, like they don't think that they're human, they don't think they deserve to be here. They're ungodly.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, uh how how many how much how many spoilers do we want to give out?

SPEAKER_04:

I'll let you decide all of them.

SPEAKER_01:

All all of the spoilers, okay. So so uh sorry if uh if if we've piqued your your interest and you're like, ooh, I should watch this show. We're gonna tell you too many things, and then it's gonna it's gonna ruin everything. I think you'd still enjoy watching it. Yeah, it's it's probably true. Um but yeah, like episode episode one, the uh the human volunteer force, they they execute a PDS person right in the middle of the street. No consequences. No consequences. Um it is alluded that they expected there might be consequences, but there never was. The cops never showed up. Um and like this isn't this is at a time where like they're being reintegrated into society. So like they went to a treatment center, they've gone through the government's protocols to make sure that they can integrate into society, their families have picked them up and are taking care of them at their home. And like, you know, they're they're being reintroduced into the world as people, but still it's kind of just okay to um assassinate them as long as nobody asks too many questions about what happened to them.

SPEAKER_00:

They they actively try to keep Kieran Kieran hidden also through the about the first episode. His family wants him to stay in the house in his room and not tell anybody that he's there.

SPEAKER_04:

And weren't they trying to sell the house too? Like they wanted to leave.

SPEAKER_00:

The community was a safe place.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, and specifically Roraton, this small town, is like the s I think the location of the initial outbreak. It happened all over the country. I do we know of what happened outside of the country? Yeah, because um uh um fuck, I can't remember the name. It might be in my list of characters there at the time.

SPEAKER_01:

I already went through the character, I think. Oh, Rick. Uh so Rick um joined the army and was killed in combat in Afghanistan and he came back as a zombie.

SPEAKER_00:

And I think it was season two that explored where it began and found that it this was the first place.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I'm curious if you all would call this a magical zombie or like a science zombie. Is it magic? Is it science? I feel like that's a tension of the show a little bit.

SPEAKER_00:

Unexplained supernatural.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Which I would I would put into magic. Um but can be remedied with science. Apparently. But the the reason that they come back is unexplained. Um there's believed to be a lot of mysticism about it. Uh there's people that think that they need to find um the person who rose the first um and do something with that person so that there can be a second rising. There's like a a whole mythology behind it, and it doesn't seem to have any real roots in in logic. Uh there's just a number of people that think that they that the Bible says that it'll happen. I think it's the Bible. I think they look in the Bible and the Bible. Yeah, they make some Bible quotes. Yeah. The Bible says it'll happen again. The second rising.

SPEAKER_04:

Um and the second rising will be good people. The first rising are all evil fake imposter people.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And it could be possible that this is like um an original like George Romero style from Night of the Living Dead, where it was literally like cosmic radiation that made people who were dead come back to life. To make solar flares. Jinx solar flare.

SPEAKER_04:

I love that we had the same thought, Oliver.

SPEAKER_00:

Are you guys enjoying the the Aurora Borealis?

SPEAKER_04:

We cannot see it. Can you see the Aurora Aurora Aurora Bal Boreala? Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

With the uh with the recent solar flares, you're supposed to be able to see them as far south as Florida.

SPEAKER_04:

Wow. I've seen some pictures of them on the internet. I haven't been outside, so yeah, since you got laid off for the season, you're you're not going outside.

SPEAKER_01:

We've been too busy being high and doing art.

SPEAKER_04:

And by we, Dan means he, because I've been busy with other things. Leah would never get high. Oh, I I mean I have, but just not as much as you.

SPEAKER_01:

She would never do it.

SPEAKER_04:

Um, what did you love about this? Like, I remember you recommending it to us, I don't know, late spring last year, and it took us forever to get to it. And then when we did, I loved it. Spoiler, Dan has mixed feelings. Um, but you were like, I think you told us this is like one of your top two zombie things ever.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, I don't know if I'd say top two, definitely in a top 10. If I was going just TV shows, I would say definitely top five. Um but yeah, I loved the the I love the story of it, first off. I loved the character development, the uh the secrets and the twists and plots throughout the entire thing, if I'm trying to keep it vague and spoiler-free. Um a lot of uh underlying like social commentary, I thought was very poignant in it. And like I know you have it in your notes for like queer analogy, and it's definitely uh uh a queer story about being closeted and and conforming and trying to keep your identity a secret from everyone else, and feeling like even though you're not trying to hide yourself, you are keeping a secret by not actively telling everyone who you are.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And also um performing performing those things for your family's uh well-being. Yeah, like Kieran, it's hilarious, but also like it's it's such a perfect uh perfect metaphor, is like they have family dinner every single day, but as a zombie, he doesn't eat.

SPEAKER_00:

Um so he's just sitting there moving an empty fork back and forth from his plate to his mouth.

SPEAKER_01:

So they make him dinner every single day, which I I I hate that it's going to waste because he's not eating it. Um that bothers me. But he just sits there and he pretends to cut it with his knife and his fork and pretends to eat it, and he's like, mmm, tastes really good. Great, great dinner, great mutton.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, it's a really powerful example of how we are forced to do things because like society says we should. And when you're a queer person specifically, it's like I think if you're ever different from the quote unquote norm, all of those things that are just like made up by people and we're told that we're supposed to do it, it becomes really obvious because you're like, why am I doing I don't want to do this? I don't need to do this, I don't need to eat, I don't need to have sex with the opposite sex, no thanks, for example. But I uh I really felt a lot of grief watching Kieran struggle with his identity as a a PDSS um person because he like covers his mirror, so he can't see himself when he doesn't have his contacts in and his makeup, his moose, they call it, on to make his face look alive. And that really, really, really broke my heart and felt very real to me.

SPEAKER_00:

Sorry, I've got another show stuck in my head now because I'm I'm starting to mix this one with uh Heartbreakers.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh this is such a much much more sad. This is the antithesis of Heartbreaker. No, was it Heartstopper? Heartbreaker. Heartstopper?

SPEAKER_00:

Heartstoppers.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. That's like the that's the anti that's the antithesis. That's such a happy, lovely coming of age.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I was about to start talking about his uh anorexia, and then I remembered, wait, nope, that's another show entirely. He can't be anorexic, he's a zombie that doesn't eat.

SPEAKER_04:

But well, interesting. There could be something there, actually. I hadn't thought of that. What I would say though, I think is good that you brought up Heartstoppers, because I've I think if you've not watched either of them, you should watch In the Flesh first and feel really sad and confused about why humans are even here because we're just stupid and mistreat each other. And then you should watch Heartstoppers as like a healing experience, because that's how I feel about that show.

SPEAKER_00:

What was the name of the character that uh had his hand bitten? I can't remember him.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, was it Simon? No, the guy with the long cream.

SPEAKER_00:

I think the character was the leader of the other group.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

That uh Kieran eventually turns to. Um, but either way, there was one character, and I thought this was a great analogy also for uh like the I don't want to specifically say Republican Party, but it is definitely the right-wing, anti-gay sort of groups that are like as soon as he was bitten, even though they know that it like you won't turn, when they thought of there there being a even the slightest chance of him being one of what they hate, they immediately turned on him.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

They locked him up, they shunned him from their entire community and said, You are no longer with us. And like, even even that I thought was a perfect example of of a queer storyline, and how uh from like both sides of the viewership, where like that's what everybody lives in fear of when they come out, is when they come out that everyone's gonna turn their back on them and shun them and just push them away, and they're going to lose all their friends, family, and their life, essentially.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, and for good reason, because that has been the way it's been uh in Western society for a while now, I'd say solidly a couple hundred years. I can't guarantee up past 1700s, because I don't know. Yeah, I'm assuming it would we were still queer phobic in the 1700s.

SPEAKER_01:

I think that this show did uh uh a really great job of of showing those different layers of like that uh that conservative mindset that's like um rejecting people for not representing the things that they th they think that the norm should be. Um like and and that character is a perfect example. I wish I could remember his name. He's a guy with a long greasy hair and looks like a devil.

SPEAKER_00:

Um you immediately get the redemption in the second season.

SPEAKER_01:

He does, yeah. You kind of hate him because I honestly it's because of the way that he looks. He looks like a bad guy to me. And he'll he looks gross. If you've got greasy hair, yeah. Um, but then like he kind of like you can start to have a bit of sympathy for him. You learn that he has diabetes. So like when he's locked up in quarantine, he's like, um, I I need like a sandwich or something. I'm I have diabetes, I I'm gonna die. Um but also uh Rick's dad is uh is also like this uh other archetype where he's uh trying he he only he only communicates with his son in what he perceives as manly um avenue. So like when when he first comes back and you know he's uh being integrated into society again, they go out um and shoot guns in the backyard. And it's he's always talking about sports or gonna get his son drunk at the local pub, even though he can't drink. Yeah, even though he he's a zombie and he can't enjoy alcohol, he's like, well, drink it anyway. Did we already introduce who Rick is? Uh I don't know. I think we should do that.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh's Rick.

SPEAKER_00:

Who's Rick, Ollie? Uh Rick is the secret boyfriend. Of Kieran. He's the character who died uh overseas. They assumed he was dead. He comes back. His father has a complete existential crisis because he's the leader of the anti-uh PDS group. And then uh, yes, other secrets uh from before their deaths come out.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, and it's a very closeted love story. I think um it was very obvious to me that they were queer, like from the outset, and because there were literally paintings of Rick that Kieran had made. Like you I mean, I don't I don't know. I don't typically paint a lot of portraits of my friends and have them all over my bedroom.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, you don't? Right? No. Oh why? Is that weird?

SPEAKER_04:

I mean, I guess I guess I shouldn't say it's weird because people do things, but there's a lot of implied intimacy. Um, it's very queer-coded. And then if you don't get it in season one, they hit you over the head with it in season two when we're introduced to a new love interest for Kieran. Um, and we finally actually get to see them kiss and like still have to hide it. Uh, but I thought that was really interesting that it was it was done in a way that I think some people might not pick it up if they themselves just haven't had a lot of experience in that way or are not queer themselves. Um, but for me, it was like get it was definitely very obvious and really fucking heartbreaking. That's sort of my it was this heartstoppers, this is heartbreaking. It was devastating in every way. It was like they picked every aspect of what makes it hard to be different in a society, and then we're just like, watch people suffer. And I'll not only the people who are queer suffer, but the people who are like doing this to them. Rick's dad is objectively an asshole. Yeah, he's violent, has no remorse for harming uh folks with PDS, denies that his son has it, and requires the entire town to pretend that he doesn't, but he's also suffering. Like he's not well.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I don't know. Um is it a bridge too far to have empathy for his dad?

SPEAKER_01:

No. I mean, yes. Uh he I mean, he he has he has some moments where he could have redeemed himself, he could have accepted his son, but he just didn't. And the he his actions are irredeemable, literally. Um again, I don't know how much we're supposed to we should be giving out because it's it's big spoiler territory to talk about what Rick's dad does. Yeah, we can't. But Rick's dad's not a good guy. And you know, if if a if a family member comes to you and says, this is who I am, and I'm not going to pretend to be somebody that I'm not, and you still can't accept them, then I I don't really have any remorse for you, no matter how much you're suffering. It's it's it's pretty it's really easy to accept somebody. Um and the mental gymnastics that you have to go through to be like, no, you're still who I say you are, even if you're telling me that you're not, and that everybody else is telling me that you're not, and the facts line up that I'm wrong, I'm going to insist that I'm right because that's the world I want to believe.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, if you have to take to justify your own hatred.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. I'm curious, Ollie, if you've ever had somebody like look at you through that filter, because I have, where it's like they don't it they have a filter and they can't take it off. They're just like, this is who you are because I've decided that's who you are because of decades of programming.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh not in person, but I've had a lot of online arguments.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, I've I think I've even experienced that. And I'm you know, I I think it's a little bit harder to to see because like I have to know I would have to know what people think about me that they're not saying out loud. And sometimes I get a little glimpse of that, and a lot of times it's it's because of uh being a veteran, um or just by the way that I look. Um scary man. Yeah, I I I look like I would blend in at CPAC. It's true. Yeah, I I look like I look like I regularly go to NASCAR races. Um I look like I have a favorite football team. I look like my truck is a lot taller than it actually is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

The biggest difference though, like that's true, people misinterpret you for sure. And I think that that's individually harmful. But systemically, like out in the society, uh, you're not an equivalent of a PDS sufferer where where like, you know what I mean? So it's it's still different.

SPEAKER_01:

No, it's definitely different. That's the only reason that I bring it up is just that like even I have noticed it about myself. And and to notice it about the way that people feel about me is it's gotta be on such a micro scale. Cause like otherwise they wouldn't have anything to say to me. They've already decided who I am, and I'm fine with who they think I am.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. I think it's really interesting how they observe like the people that are closest to Kieran and Rick are the ones who are least able to see them.

SPEAKER_00:

That's true. They got blinders on, they want to see who they think they are.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And that becomes a lot more clear in season two, at least with uh Kieran's family. Um season one, they seem like a fairly accepting family, except for the weird dinner thing.

SPEAKER_00:

Um sister.

SPEAKER_01:

But it like it does seem like they're trying to they're making steps to try to be a functional family together, and it seems like they do love them. It's it's not until season two where it's like, oh, these people are also a bit messed up in the head.

SPEAKER_00:

Um his sister.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, really quickly too. I don't I don't even remember how that happened.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, that's a that's in the hated character category for me. I felt like there were some things that were just rushed. Probably because it was only two seasons, which was so sad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And they're very short seasons too, like four episodes, I want to say.

SPEAKER_04:

Still took us months to finish because we were I don't remember what we were binging, but something. We had to re-watch it again. Yeah. Yeah. Um what else did you all love? Like the there's the queer storyline and all the facets of that.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I've I found uh Kieran's sister Jem to be an interesting character because she's uh she's a member of the human volunteer force, um, but also like a teenager. Um so you know she's she's she has a lot of trauma from the things that she had to do during the uprising. One of those things was seeing Kieran out in the wild eating a person, um and her like inability to act on that. Spoiler alert, she doesn't shoot her brother.

SPEAKER_04:

Ollie, have you ever been caught out in the wild eating brains?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh no, I don't do it in the wild. I have a basement.

SPEAKER_04:

Ah, very civilized zombie. Got it. You gotta have a basement.

SPEAKER_00:

But yeah, so she just put down some newspapers and clean up after myself, make sure it's clean. I learned a lot from Dexter.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, you know, Dexter, the show where he puts down newspapers before he murders people.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I put newspaper under the plastic sheets, you know, just as an extra layer of coverage.

SPEAKER_01:

Under the plastic sheets.

SPEAKER_00:

So just in case.

SPEAKER_01:

If you walk into Ollie's basement for whatever reason and you're standing on a newspaper, watch out. Yes, that means you're dinner. You look down and you're just like, oh no.

SPEAKER_00:

Netflix and kill.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, but yeah, Jem represents this uh you know PTSD archetype. So like it's exploring the the uh psychological effects of being a survivor in that world, um, which I I've which I found mostly realistic. And all the things that I loved were all the character development stuff. The the character stories felt uh like real people interacting.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, yes. It all felt very real.

SPEAKER_04:

Too real. It really felt like they were just needling all of the ways that humans suck sometimes. But there were redemption arcs. I think we we have to talk about Amy. She was definitely a part of the show that I loved. Amy Dyer? Amy Dyer, who's undead.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. She she died. Just hearing that name suddenly, I I understand the pun there.

SPEAKER_01:

Kieran Walker, you know, like from The Walking Dead. Oh wow, I really think that up Dyer, like something that somebody does when they die. What's Rick's last name?

SPEAKER_00:

I mean Monroe. That one doesn't work.

SPEAKER_01:

Like the Monroeville Mall. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Apologies. You got Bill Macy. I think that's also Rick. Is that Rick was Bill's son, right?

SPEAKER_04:

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So that would be Rick Macy. Yeah, Macy, like the store at the Monroe Mall.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. There's probably a Macy. I'm pretty sure. Oh no, we walked through a dick's. Yeah, there's a dick. Yeah. Dicks like at the Monroeville Mall. Yeah. Like Bill. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't realize that. Wow, there's a whole other layer here to appreciate. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I think there's some layers. Did you just layers? I found Amy really interesting. Um, yeah. Actually, I think you hit the nail on the head, Leah, when you were talking earlier about you know how the story it points out all the ways that it's really hard to be different. And I think that Amy is just a different kind of person. And at the heart of it, like becoming a zombie in this world is kind of just like they're they're making people who are different into zombies. So that like that's the comparison that they're trying to make. So like if you were a weirdo in high school, if you are kind of off the wall like Amy because she's just like a funny and uh and rough around the edges kind of character.

SPEAKER_00:

She's free. Very self-accepting.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. She does she doesn't believe in meshing with society or doing what society wants you to do. She's she's very punk rock, um, even though she doesn't really she doesn't dress like a punk, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_04:

I think her her dress is like actually fits her vibe. Or like fluffy dr floofy dress? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. That's my rock is a mentality, not a style. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

That's right. And she's totally punk rock.

SPEAKER_04:

Punk rock with a flower in your hair.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

That's Amy.

SPEAKER_01:

That's that's Amy in a nutshell. Um, but yeah, she's she's different in that way. And Kieran is different because of the his his queerness, and the same with Rick, who's closeting his queerness by joining the army. Um Simon in that who we meet in season two is also a very different person, like a hyper intellectual person uh who's actually not closeting his queerness. Well, but also just not advertising.

SPEAKER_04:

Again, I feel like it's a spoiler to get too much into the fact that there's there's some misleading happening that Simon does. He does, yeah. I don't agree with it.

SPEAKER_00:

He had a beard for a little while. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, he did have a beard.

SPEAKER_00:

He had a beard.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Um, but yeah, the like the zombie apocalypse in this story is um different people who happened to be dead and they came back because they were different. Even like smaller characters that we see in season two, like there's this one arc about this guy who's kind of kind of a little bit of a kind of a fuck up, you know, like somebody who uh likes to drive his car fast and he likes he likes going out drinking and you know, he's very reckless, but also it's because he was kind of young and like in all the ways that he was different, he was just like he was just not meshing with society in the way that society wants you to. Like he was out there just trying to live his freest and honestly ADHD life. Like I I I I see I see young Dan in that guy so much, just driving around in his fast car rev reving at stoplights, uh lit living out of a storage unit.

SPEAKER_04:

This is where I admit I've totally forget what character you're talking about, and I don't know memory of this.

SPEAKER_00:

It's in season two, but it's it's this I don't know his name either, but I felt like he just appeared out of nowhere and was suddenly there and quite a story.

SPEAKER_01:

He got an episode and it like his whole his whole story too. It was just like, I don't mesh with society, I don't fit in.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, and there's a lot of found family themes too, which is um definitely common for for queer storylines and experiences. What did you hate? Ollie, did you hate anything in this show?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh not in season one. I had some complaints about season two, and I definitely have a lot of complaints about season three.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay, but I think you're messing with me because I was convinced that there were three seasons. Then you clarify that there were only two, Oliver. Are you telling me there is oh, you jerk. Because even when I was preparing for this today, I was like writing three seasons. I'm like, wait, no, that's a lie I told myself.

SPEAKER_00:

No, my my main complaint about season three is its lack of existence.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's it it they didn't make a season three.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh spoiler. Yeah, unfortunately, because it ended on a uh bit of a uh cliffhanger there, like they were leading to something much bigger. Um, but complaints for season two were mainly um well, I felt like the character personalities were not quite the same as the first one, like especially with the dad. I feel like he just out of the blue flipped on flipped around and changed his mind about how everything was.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Instead of trying to protect his son, he went with uh, you know, the law says we gotta do this and you gotta do that. And uh I didn't like the the story with the guy who got himself locked in the uh in the garage. Uh like I I didn't I didn't know who that character was. I don't really remember him from season one, and if he was there, he certainly wasn't a big part of any of it. Oh, the guy I was just talking about. Yeah, the guy you were just talking about.

SPEAKER_01:

No, he showed up in season two. He was like he was um he was somebody who was part of their work crew. The those the the PDS sufferers, they get assigned to a work crew and they have to work for free um to repay their debt to society. That's this whole thing. Um and he was just a part of that crew, and you you see him in a previous episode, and he's like, Why do I have to do this? I'm a small business owner. And they're like, You have to repay your debt to society, so do it. Put on this vest.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh, and then he just got I think he got a whole episode, if I'm not mistaken, or at least like Yeah, he basically had a whole episode, and it felt like he was uh main character suddenly, and then he just he was there for an episode and then just disappeared again.

SPEAKER_04:

Clearly, my brain rejected him because I have no memory of any of this.

SPEAKER_01:

I thought he was a fascinating character, but um but I don't think he needed more than one episode.

SPEAKER_00:

I interest you. That whole love triangle with him and his ex-wife and his ex-wife's new boyfriend. It was all very weird and confusing, and I didn't know where it came from or why it was present, honestly.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, are we talking about things we don't like?

SPEAKER_04:

Yes. Okay, you ready? You ready, Dan? I'm first I want before you say anything, I want to say that Dan ruined season two for me. Because I was having a good time, and I would just be like, this is great. And then Dan would be like, huh, why'd they do what this makes no sense? Blah blah job. And I was like, stop it. What I've learned from you though is the details matter to you and I don't care.

SPEAKER_01:

I love details. The details make the difference between me wanting to dive into something and understand every tiny little part of it, and me giving up and hating it. Um, I I think I agree with Ollie for the most part on season one. Um, season one had its shit together, but there were like a few little things, and honestly, I don't think it was the core story that was the problem. This was adapted from a graphic novel, if I'm not mistaken. I'd like to read it. And parts of it I feel like were things that were just kind of lost in translation, where maybe the screenwriter didn't um kind of skipped over something or they edited something out that they didn't realize was a much bigger thing that was related to something that happens later in the story. Um or it could have also just been like between the screen the the screenplay and when it was directed. Uh I feel like sometimes the characters, like mostly the side characters who just exist in the town, they kind of seem like they've never seen a single day of the zombie apocalypse sometimes. Um they just that they they seem like if a zombie came out of uh around the around the corner somewhere, they would just like panic and like run in place and then like hide under a dumpster and get eaten. And it's like, how did you survive? How did you make it four years into this shit when you seem like you've never seen a uh a day of action in your whole life? Um and that's really my only gripe about season one, is just that I I think honestly, I think it was a direction problem. It was the the directing of the episodes.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

There was just like it didn't feel like there had ever been an apocalypse. Um because you know, we're coming in after, but we're not seeing like evidence of that. We're not seeing people that are that are like that look like they've been through something. They don't talk like they've been through something. The town doesn't look like it's been through anything, it just looks like a normal town.

SPEAKER_04:

Do I just have low standards?

SPEAKER_00:

Maybe.

SPEAKER_04:

Like, did you notice that?

SPEAKER_00:

No, I do.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

But I think I think that whatever happened, whether it was from direction or from the the screenwriting or the adaptation, um, like whatever details that they didn't spend enough time with or didn't get right, or they tried to shoehorn in where it didn't really belong, be it made things much more obvious in season two as the plot holes kept on widening and the details kept on getting a little bit more ridiculous.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I know you don't want to say it because it'll spoil it, but there was one thing where Kieran was in trouble. I'm not gonna say more about it, but the basic, like, if you lined up the story, it made no sense that nobody just put two and two together that like clearly he shouldn't be in trouble.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Um, and that I didn't notice. Again, I don't know if you notice these things, Oliver. I was just like, oh no, Kieran's in trouble. And Dan's over there, like, memory, this is so easily resolved. That's what he sounds like.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, like without giving away too much, somebody was like, Hey, Kieran, we think you did this thing and you're in trouble now. And he's like, Yeah, but I wasn't even there. And they're like, Well, we have video footage of you, and he's like, uh, well, that video footage was from four days before this even happened. And they're like, We still think it's you. And it's like, he's not bringing up the fact that at the time of the crime that happened, he was sitting at a table eating dinner with his parents and two members of the human volunteer force. I love how I tried to keep this spoiler-free, and then you're like, no, it's so egregious, I have to describe it. And you could just be like, Hey, I know you want to bring me in and charge me with this crime, but you were at the dinner table with me when this was happening. I was there, I didn't go anywhere, you didn't go anywhere, yet the crime still happened.

SPEAKER_04:

Again, Oliver, did you notice this?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, because again, his dad did not support him. He had evidence saying that he was not involved in that, and his dad did not speak up or say anything.

SPEAKER_01:

His dad was at the dinner table too, and that's what I mean. It's just like, even though, like, I could I could accept if people were like, Well, maybe you did it after dinner. You know, we don't have the exact time frame, but at no point did he ever bring up the fact, like, you're my alibi, dad. You were there, you know I didn't do this. That ruins the plot, Dan. It ruins the plot because it points out how ridiculous it is. It points out the the fallacies that make it not work. And I think that that was just something that it was all shoehorned together by that point because they'd already either cut or changed so many details that they couldn't make the story work the way it was written originally. That's my that's my theory anyway.

SPEAKER_04:

I'm sure the original writer cried. I'm sure that the graphic novel is better. Oh, I'm positive.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Everybody read the graphic novel instead of watching the show.

SPEAKER_00:

There is no graphic novel. What? Yeah, I was excited when you said that, and I immediately jumped on the side. I thought you were the one that told us.

SPEAKER_01:

Hold on.

SPEAKER_04:

Is this like where I invent? This is how you know we wanted more. I invented a season three in my brain, and Dan pretended there was a graphic novel.

SPEAKER_00:

I do know a couple shows that are based on graphic novels, like uh Daybreaker and Sweet Tooth, which I have recommended both of those to you. Best of my knowledge, this one does not have a graphic novel that I can find.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Uh a Google search is um breaking up a lot of uh I need this, I need to put safe search on. Um anyway. I'm like, what's over there? When you put in flesh and graphic in the same search string, you get some weird stuff. Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

I understand your struggle because my favorite band is group love, and my favorite song by them is Naked Kids. And then you try to Google that.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh boy. Oh, the cops are all ready to be like.

SPEAKER_00:

You get on a list, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Uh um, Oliver, was there anything else that you hated? I know Dan, you got you got your rant out, but I want to know if there's anything we missed, Oliver, that you want to.

SPEAKER_00:

No, I think Dan covered most of it. I think that a lot of the writing and a lot of the the weird plot stuff that was going on in season two, uh, a lot of it did not make sense. A lot of it was easily explained away if anybody had any ounce of logic to them. And it was like from an outside observer, a lot of it was an obvious setup. And yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Not to me, apparently. I think I must have been playing my phone games or something. I'm gonna blink my attention span.

SPEAKER_00:

I think the main story in season two is good, and I think a lot of the uh other stuff that goes on in season two is great. It's just there's a lot of minor small stuff. I think most of what happens with Kieran in season two is just yeah, I think Kieran's story mainly is just I don't know. It's unpleasant. I don't like it.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, and then we don't get to know what happens with Amy at the end. That's all I'm gonna say. It's very annoying.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, we know what happens to Amy, but that's spoiler.

SPEAKER_04:

That's true. And there's a twist at the end that I'm also not gonna spoil. And I what I realized is we have not talked about Maxine Martin yet. And I feel like that's another character we have to talk about. Uh, I think she's the only black character in the whole show. And she is she grew up in Roareton and then left as a child and is now an MP. Do you Americans know what an MP is? Military police.

SPEAKER_01:

What's a PM?

SPEAKER_00:

Prime Minister?

SPEAKER_01:

True. So this is a minister prime. Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Um hold on. There is an optimist prime joke in here somewhere.

SPEAKER_04:

Um we'll wait. Dan put on the Jeopardy music. Religious Optimus Prime. An MP means member of parliament. Oh. So uh Maxine Martin is the member of parliament for the region that we're talking about. Shouldn't it be M-O-P? Mop. Sure. The mop. She's the mop. Right. Um, and I think it's really interesting because I do think race plays a little bit of a role there because even though she grew up there, she's treated like an outsider and with like a lot of suspicion. Um, it's never overt, but I think that there are some moments where you can kind of feel there's a racial tension there. Um, but her role basically, like on the surface, it appears that she hates PDS sufferers. And she is team, get rid of them all, because she's like the uh author of really, really oppressive legislation that makes it so that all of their um actions are monitored. They have to do this volunteer program, um, they can't leave the country because Kieran wants to leave the country. And then something happens at the end that is completely unexpected and really made me want a season three. I don't remember what happened. You don't remember this okay. I love how you remember the random thing and guy who doesn't matter. This is like pivotal, Dan.

SPEAKER_00:

Does it remember the biggest thing happening in the last episode? Yeah. It's probably one of the biggest um uh uh uh cliffhangers since Who Shot J HR.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Wow, a a Dallas reference. But also she just takes a turn where I was like, Whoa, I didn't know you were so unwell. I mean, I knew you were unwell, but wow. Um, and maybe maybe we'll get lucky, maybe it'll become like a cult classic. Everybody go and stream in the flesh and then demand a third season. Or watch like or read the graphic novel that doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_00:

My understanding is that the script for the third season does exist. It just never got funded for adapt adaptation.

SPEAKER_04:

I wonder why. I can tell you why. In the spirit and tradition of our friends at Wicked Words, ain't nothing but a heart ache.

SPEAKER_00:

There we go. Now we've got uh two is that Backstreet Boys or Instinct?

SPEAKER_04:

I never want to hear you say it backwards. Yeah, whatever. 90s boy band, and I apologize for my bad singing. But in in honor of our friends at Wicked Words book club, we always do like a one-star review. I found one for this show, and I blame this person for why we don't have more, because they said that, quote, the fevered imagination, this comes from sorry, quote, this comes from the fevered imagination of a novice screenwriter just off a dramatic writing course who has just watched The Walking Dead and eaten lots of cheese before bedtime.

SPEAKER_01:

I love the detail of the cheese.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, they were very disappointed.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, I don't entirely disagree, um, because my my gripes are are the writing of it. Um, but I I the season one was actually good writing-wise. I don't know what happened in season two that it just all fell apart.

SPEAKER_04:

I think we should just give Z's. I would give season one nine Z's and I'd give season two or two zs. Seven Zeds. I'd still give it seven. I really enjoyed it. So if you m average that out, it's like eight and a half or something like that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Math.

SPEAKER_01:

Um you know, talking to Ollie last night, I I realized that if I just um ignore the plot holes um the the the strange the strange uh direction choices, um you know, all all the ways that things tend to not make sense when they're put together the way that they decided to put them together. Uh in some cases the poor uh acting and physical acting and the technical details uh that just kind of make it fall apart. Um I'd give it a nine, nine out of ten Zeds. Wow. Because deep down, like it is a good a good interpersonal story that uh that says a lot um about our society. And that's what I love about the zombie apocalypse genre. Um so yeah, if we just ignore all those things, it's like a nine out of ten. What would you rate it?

SPEAKER_00:

I think season one uh would be a five out of five for me. If we're going to ten, I would say probably like a nine out of ten. And yeah, season two, probably like a six or seven out of ten, like a three out of five. So I think a eight is a good fair, fair uh uh uh rating for that.

SPEAKER_04:

Do we remember what Darren from Undead Symphony rated it? Because I know it's gonna be lower than us.

SPEAKER_00:

Probably a six. I mean, I can look it up real fast.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, please do. Because I love Darren is the true, like a ten must be perfect kind of a writer, and I'm like uh I loved it. It's great, it makes it a ten.

SPEAKER_00:

So it looks like Darren from uh Undead Symphony gave it a six out of ten, at least that's for season two. And let me check a seven out of ten for season one.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay, yeah. So that's that's basically our eight and a half.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's a very good rating from Darren.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, well, Darren's also watched some really horrible stuff.

SPEAKER_00:

So well, he's I think he also only rated 28 days later like an eight.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. And quantum or blood quantum like a seven and a half. So, like I said, I think if we were all this is how I'd like us to close out. If you were an elementary school teacher and you had to grade students, I think Darren would make children cry. And I think that I would give everybody A's because I did when I was a teacher. I'm pretty sure I was known as the easy class because I was. We're we're the self-esteem graders. Yeah. I mean, unless I mean there were people I had to fail, but they were rare.

SPEAKER_01:

There's there's movies and TV shows we have to fail too.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, this isn't it though. This is great.

SPEAKER_00:

I think I could only teach a class that that like it's subjective, and I d so I don't have to grade anybody lowly.

SPEAKER_04:

So you'd be a pass fail person and you just pass everybody.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. But also, I want to point out Darren actually rated quantum uh blood quantum a seven out of ten, same rating.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, I thought it was a seven and a half for some reason. Okay. Interesting. See, I would put blood quantum higher than than this.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Um but again, it this is subjective. Even the way that I say the letter Z is subjective.

SPEAKER_00:

Did you know that my first zombie story was just titled Z? I did. I think I've read it. That'll be coming in a future comic.

SPEAKER_04:

Yay, that's right. Everybody, if you haven't yet, go to the show notes and or just go to Ollie Eats Brains on Instagram everywhere else. You can get the link to their Kickstarter. Go and make sure that we can in the future rate Maze, the comic series, 10 out of 10 Zeds, because we know that's what's coming. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I might put two links to it in the description because we are running the uh the mid-roll ads for Ollie, which automatically adds it, but when we remove that, it'll go away. So this we want this episode to have a permanent one. So there when you check it, there might be two. Little behind-the-scenes things that Dan does. Yes. Don't be confused. They're the same thing.

SPEAKER_00:

I need to re-record that because I've listened to it a couple times now, and it sounds like I'm talking with marbles in my mouth.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, I understand. Is that not what you were going for?

SPEAKER_00:

It's how also. Yeah, I was trying to go for the authentic zombie speak fill.

SPEAKER_04:

I think you nailed it. I wouldn't change a word.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

But I know that we sadly need to end this conversation. Ollie, as usual, thank you for coming back on the show. Number six. Um, I am suggesting that you and Lori have a summer ween slam down to decide who we love more on this podcast.

SPEAKER_00:

I think I can win that one.

SPEAKER_04:

No comment. I do not say out loud my favorite.

SPEAKER_01:

We don't have a mustache to lose. I have no mustache on the Lori's gonna come for something. Yeah, you better think about that. And if you don't have a mustache, it might be painful.

SPEAKER_00:

Jeez, I do have eyebrows.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, all right. I mean, without a mustache, Lori might just come for your lips. Eyebrows. I think that's great. It's kind of the new style. Let's hope, let's hope she wants your eyebrows.

SPEAKER_04:

All right, everybody. Thanks for joining the Zombie Book Club. Thank you, Ollie, for being our official member with a card. You can support us by leaving a rating or review, sending us a voicemail up to three minutes at 614-699-00006, please do, because it's under threat of being lost again. Oh, you gotta send us a voicemail so we don't know what it's old-fashioned to give us a voicemail, but it's why I like it. Please do thank you. Sign up for our newsletter that we never send so we can stay in touch, or follow us on Instagram at zombie bookclub podcast. You can also join Ollie's Brain Munchers Collective Discord. It's got all of the best zombie podcast shows on it. All the links are in the description. The end is nigh, my friends. Baby, bye, bye, bye. Don't die. Oliver, say bye. Oh, bye. Sorry. Bye.

Contributor

Dan

Host
Contributor

Leah

Host