Rick Latham: An Intimate Conversation with Legendary Drummer Rick Latham: Career Insights, Drum Techniques, and Musical Influences

How would you like to sit down with a legendary drummer who's shared the stage with music giants like Edgar Winter, Rick Derringer, and BB King? Better yet, what if he took you on a riveting journey from his humble beginnings in Columbia, South Carolina, all the way to the competitive LA music scene? Welcome to an intimate conversation with Rick Latham, an extraordinary musician whose talent and dedication have not only won him acclaim but earned him enduring respect in the industry.

Rick allows us to peek behind the curtain, revealing his struggles, inspirations, and triumphs. He shares the transformative power of big band and soul/gospel music in his early years and gives fascinating insights into the world of drumming techniques and musical education. Hear about his daring decision to leave university to pursue his passion, a choice that catapulted his career. Rick also discusses his experiences on movie sets, playing for big names like BB King, and his encounters with the advent of drum machines.

But it doesn't stop there. Rick reflects on the significance of networking in the music biz, nods to the drummers who've shaped his career and divulges his perspective on the right drumming equipment. He takes us through the gear that crafts his signature sound, including his beloved DW 5000 pedal. Lastly, he paints a vibrant picture of his future plans for clinics and master classes, his extensive collection of drumming books and DVDs, and his deep love for diverse playing styles and genres. So, buckle up for this enlightening episode with the legendary Rick Latham!

SC Entertainment & Music Hall Of Fame
The SC Entertainment Hall of Fame honors South Carolina natives that have achieved national success.

Palmetto Showcase/Upstate Live Music
We’re your 1-stop-shopping site for live musical entertainment in the Upstate South Carolina Region!

Don Jones Custom Stereo
FULL SERVICE STEREO SALES & REPAIR We BUY & SELL quality new and vintage stereo and audio equipment

The Bandanna Store
It's not JUST a Bandanna! 100% Cotton - Made In The USA Bandannas! Paisley, Camo, Tie Dyed & More!

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

My guest on this week's episode of Backstage with Chris Lee is Mr Rick Latham, rick Hales from Columbia, south Carolina. To say that Rick wrote the book on drum techniques would be an understatement. He wrote two books on drum techniques, one of which has been translated into several languages and is still required reading, after 43 years, at many colleges and university music programs around the world. Rick toured with Edgar Winter for several years and over a decade with Drew Snowton. Rick is currently the drummer with Dr Mac Arnold touring the Southeast and he has returned to his hometown of Columbia, South Carolina. He joins me now on this episode of Backstage with Chris Lee. Thank you for taking the time out to do this, man. I really do appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 0:47

Well, thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. It's great to see you at the Hall of Fame. Thing a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 1: 0:53

Oh, that was incredibly awesome, man. It was great.

Speaker 2: 0:57

A lot of heavy hitters in that room, man. Yeah, yeah, it was great man to see Mark, you know, and all the guys, man you know, it's funny. I don't know if I told you this story, but Mark earned it and we met years ago when I was on the road with Edgar Winter.

Speaker 1: 1:13

Right.

Speaker 2: 1:14

And we had a great conversation in an airport, like once we were kind of crossing paths in the same airport, yeah, and we had a chat and talked for about an hour and had a great time and I haven't seen him since. So that was great. I surprised him there, you know, saying hi, I went back in the dressing room and stuff, and then Paul Riddle- yeah. Also, man, what a you know all these guys, legendary you know, and big influences on me. You know my plan too.

Speaker 1: 1:41

So really great, let's get some business out of the way. Where can people find out about you, your music, your drum books, your teaching? Where can? Where can people go to find out information about you?

Speaker 2: 1:54

Well, rick Lathamcom I mean, that's always a good thing my Facebook, rick Latham Facebook page and Instagram also, and you know they can contact me through those platforms, and also my books are distributed worldwide, the hard copy through Alfred, alfred publishing, which they also have Warner Brothers publishing, and so Alfred is my distributor.

Speaker 1: 2:21

Right.

Speaker 2: 2:22

And Hudson Music. You can get downloads, digital downloads of the books with audio, so, and that's got me playing everything in the books and stuff. So you know that's a. That's pretty much. You know you can buy them online Amazon and all that stuff. You know I have some too and my music you can. Actually, I think Apple Music would probably be the best place I've got. I had a band in LA called the Groove Doctors, yeah, and you can get. You can buy albums, you know, through Apple Music downloads and stuff. So that's that's pretty much, rick Lathamcom. So we've got all that information, okay, all right?

Speaker 1: 3:03

Well, let's start at the beginning. Rick, where were you born?

Speaker 2: 3:07

I was born here in Columbia. Man, I'm in Columbia, south Carolina, and my wife and I just moved back here a couple of years ago. But I started playing here, man, when I was about 12 years old and grew up over in West Columbia on C Avenue and got my first set of drums when I was 12. And man, just, you know, I was kind of just naturally drawn to the drums for some reason, I don't know why. My, my brother I have an older brother four years older. He was playing piano, right, and he was in the high school band and stuff at that time, brooklyn Casey High School band, still here, brooklyn Casey and their band at that time was like had been state champions for like 10 years in a row, very traditional kind of military marching band and you know that was kind of a big deal to be in the marching band.

Speaker 2: 4:02

So I actually started studying music and you know junior high school band and stuff like that. So my brother, you know, kind of got me interested in music and my family always had music in the house, man, my parents had, you know, at that time they would listen to like old big band records and you know the Mills Brothers and you know things like that, tommy Dorsey and all those great things. But it was great man. And you know, just growing up in Columbia too, man, I was grew up with a lot of like listening to kind of soul and gospel music. At that time it's really funny, man, I was really kind of drawn to that kind of music, just groove kind of stuff, you know, and that's you know, started playing and then started studying. You know, high school band went on to go to college and study music and stuff.

Speaker 1: 5:00

You mentioned the big band, you mentioned listening to the big band. You had one of the first drummers that I can remember noticing was Gene Krupa Right. You know that was one that really kind of you know, growing up. The biggest name I heard in drums because you know, was probably Buddy Rich. You know he was on Carson all the time Exactly.

Speaker 2: 5:26

And that was a big inspiration to me too. Right, and when Buddy was going to be on Carson, you know they would announce it. You know earlier in the day, you know later that, earlier that week, and my parents would let me stay up to watch, to watch Buddy. And, uh, yeah, Gene Krupa, Buddy, Rich, Manjo Morello, those were the guys.

Speaker 1: 5:45

Well, you know, carson, carson himself was a drummer, so he loves Buddy Rich on. You know, that was that was his favorites too, you know and Carson was a decent drummer.

Speaker 2: 5:55

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 5:56

I saw him play several, several videos of him playing several episodes of the show. He would get out and play from time to time too.

Speaker 2: 6:01

Uh huh, yeah, he was always a decent drummer, yeah, and later I became friends with Ed Shalmerson who played? In that tonight show band for so many years. Yes, so all those guys. Yeah, seeing all those guys man on TV really influenced me quite a bit, you know. And then seeing local guys, you know, at local high school dances and stuff like that around here.

Speaker 1: 6:23

So you got involved with the, with the high school band um, and did you? You said you had drum set with 12, did you take lessons, did you?

Speaker 2: 6:31

you know, I didn't take drum set lessons. I was taking, you know, of course, in band. You were playing mostly, mostly snare drum.

Speaker 1: 6:38

Right.

Speaker 2: 6:39

And uh and um, you know bass, drum and cymbals and a little bit of bells and stuff like that in the high school band, but I never really took lessons. I took some lessons from one of the band directors just for reading, yeah, like you know, reading notation, but it was snare drum type stuff. Um, I never really studied drum set until I went to graduate school, man, so I just started playing kind of self-taught, listening to records and stuff like that. But I was, uh, I will say I was a very good like snare drum, like rudimental player. I was always very interested in the rudiments and, like I said, brooklyn Casey, at that time we had to play all these great uh marches, you know, all the Suza marches and stuff like that, john Philip Suza and um, all the great military marches, and I had to learn, like all the rudiments and stuff.

Speaker 2: 7:32

So you know, and that uh, at that time too, man, it was just uh, you know, that was all there was really to learn how to play drums, uh, you know rudimental stuff, uh, hand exercises, and there weren't really I can't remember any drum set teachers around at that time. Right, you know, until I went to college I started getting into more of the drum set stuff and, um, I played traditional grip because that's the way buddy played and all the great drummers at that time, right. So it was. It was interesting, man, the way it kind of fell together and then I started really studying more techniques and had more musical kind of things when I went to school.

Speaker 1: 8:13

And notice in some videos you were using uh, traditional grip, um, and do you, do you switch? Do you uh? Depends depending on what you're playing, or do you always do traditional?

Speaker 2: 8:23

You know I always feel better man with traditional. It just is something that match grip just never feels right to me, even though you know, growing up in when I went to school and playing in orchestras and playing marimba and stuff like that, of course you play match grip and, uh, timpani and stuff like that. I used to play a lot of timpani and orchestras at school and I used to. It was teaching Maree, but when I went to graduate school I had a great teacher at undergrad school, east Carolina University in Greenville, north Carolina. But um, yeah, match grip, just on the drums man just doesn't just never felt right to me. You know it's funny, it's funny traditional grip, it's odd I noticed I went to see um sticks.

Speaker 1: 9:08

They played here in Greenville uh back last year.

Speaker 2: 9:12

Yeah, todd Silkerman Sure, he's a great dad. Yeah, he's a friend of mine. I know Todd very well he is.

Speaker 1: 9:17

He uses that traditional grip and that kind of amazed me, for you know they are pretty much a power rock band, so most of your power rock drummers use that match grip.

Speaker 2: 9:26

That's right, man.

Speaker 1: 9:27

You don't see many rock guys, especially heavy guys, play traditional grip, and he makes it look so easy though he's yeah, Well, well, man, you know, and I played it with Edgar too man we were throwing, throwing down pretty good with Edgar winner. So Frank Frankenstein with with traditional grip, All right. Right on, right on, yeah it worked, it worked, and free ride too.

Speaker 2: 9:50

Oh man, I just oh man all those great tunes, man, you know, I, I, I love playing those tunes with Edgar. That was really something, man, and a real uh special. You know time in in my career that, uh, you know playing all those great and we played with so many great artists too. I mean we played with Rick Derringer and we played with REO and we played with Jethro Toll and Grand Funk, railroad Steppenwolf you know, you know all the, all the bands I grew up with. I hear those guys are good. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:21

Yeah, yeah I think, yeah, I think they've, uh, I think they'll, they'll do okay, they'll do okay.

Speaker 1: 10:26

They'll go far in this business.

Speaker 2: 10:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:29

Or they've gone far, yeah. Yeah, it's a? Uh University of North Texas. That's where you went and you studied music there and, uh, you got a master's degree. And let me tell you, did you not go for the PhD? I mean, are you an underachiever or what?

Speaker 2: 10:44

Well, yeah, well, well, actually, actually, in all honesty, one. I didn't finish my degree. I don't really have the degree, but I was very close to finishing but I went on the road. I went on the road with the Elvis impersonator.

Speaker 1: 10:57

Okay.

Speaker 2: 10:58

And, and they hated me at school because I kind of left and at the end of my you know my I had I got a scholarship and was teaching there on a teaching assistantship. Yeah, and uh, because I had such great background from Harold Jones at East Carolina and, um, I was able to get a scholarship and go to that school, man, which was really great. It's still a great school, university of North Texas, they call it Right, it was called North Texas. When I went, north Texas State and um, man, I was teaching mallets and snare drum to undergraduates while I was working on a master's and I was very close to finishing, man, I've had this opportunity to go on the road and, you know, I just, you know, wanted to be a player. I was.

Speaker 2: 11:43

I was also getting a, um, uh, performance degree, which a lot of people get music ad degrees, so they become the teacher or something like that, and I love teaching and I enjoy it, still love teaching. But, um, I always knew I wanted to be a performer, you know. So I got the performance degree and, um, you know, don't regret that at all but, um, and that's what I had in undergraduate school too, yeah, undergraduate performance. But, um, yeah, man. Um, you know, I left school and kind of you know I was teaching an ensemble too and my private lessons and stuff. And you know, uh, bob Chitromo, who was the head of the department at that time, was kind of pissed for a while and I kind of left him hanging a little bit. But I still have great memories and still keep in touch with my teachers and actually Jim Hall, one of my drum set teachers. I never really studied drum set until I went to North Texas and, uh, jim Paul lives here in Columbia.

Speaker 1: 12:43

He when I left North.

Speaker 2: 12:44

When I left North Texas, Jim Hall came to Columbia and got the job at USC and he's retired now, but he was here for 26 years at USC and he and his wife, Linda's a real estate agent. She helped us find this beautiful house here. So we've kept in touch all those years and I keep in touch. Ron Fink was another one of my teachers, Henry Oxtail, all the teachers and all all the great students that were there. You know I was a grad student, but there were, you know, Greg Bissonette was there at that time, great drummer and, uh, you know, playing with Ringo's thing now, but Greg, you know, played with David Lee Roth and they've done a bunch of stuff. Um, but there were a lot of great drummers there at that time. You know, a lot, of, a lot of great players came out of that school, Wow, so it was great. It was great man, yeah, but I, uh, the masters was enough.

Speaker 2: 13:37

I can't imagine. I can't imagine, you know, some of my buddies, man, go back to school and get doctors and stuff, and I'm like man, I could. I just couldn't do it now. I couldn't go back to school and study now, man, my grades in school were decent, you know, in high school and stuff, but when I went to college, man, my grades were great because it was all music stuff. I mean, I still took academic things, but my great, my grades were really good. You know, studying what I wanted to study, that was, that was your passion.

Speaker 1: 14:09

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:09

Yeah, yeah, I hear you, but things might might have a little more retention now. One of my buddies here, man that I grew up I had my first band was here in Columbia and the guys still live here that were in the band and, uh, one of those guys is going back to school.

Speaker 1: 14:28

So what band was that? Give the guys a shot.

Speaker 2: 14:30

Okay, okay, man. Yeah, it was. The band, was the name of the band, was the hypercinctious amoeba. Okay Okay.

Speaker 1: 14:41

And Bobby Bobby right.

Speaker 2: 14:42

Right, we played pop, we played school dances and stuff. Man, bobby Loric was playing bass and Mitch Shaw was playing guitar and there was another guitarist, billy Derenbacher, who has passed away, but um, but uh, yeah, man, those uh, bobby and uh, it's still around, mitch and Bobby are still around. Wow, I still see them, man, we go eat barbecue every once in a while and we actually came. They came over to the studio, man, and we played one day and we played a bunch of those old, too bubblegum kind of stuff. Yeah, they're really really great, really great.

Speaker 1: 15:26

So what took you out to LA? Well?

Speaker 2: 15:31

um, when I, when I finished school, man, I went on the road with this Elvis guy and we lived.

Speaker 2: 15:36

I lived in Vegas for a couple of years. He was great man. Bobby Young was a thing and we played Vegas, we played Canada, all over the United States it was. It was great man. I mean it had a trailer and you know all our stuff you know had horns and two chip singers background and the whole whole Elvis thing. Man, he had all the costumes and jumpsuits. I mean he was really serious man. He was from Wichita Falls I think, texas, and um, so anyway, uh, I came off the road, uh with him and lived in Dallas for a little while and that's when I actually finished my book, the advanced horn studies book. And then, um, you know, and then you know, just at that time my career was kind of taken off from the book and people were kind of knowing me a little bit, who I was and stuff.

Speaker 1: 16:32

What year did you write that book?

Speaker 2: 16:34

I wrote the book in 1980. And it was published. I published it myself, man. I printed it. I wrote every note in there by hand.

Speaker 1: 16:44

And it's still being used by drum teachers today.

Speaker 2: 16:48

It's still being used everywhere, at schools all around the world, and, uh, you know, china, it's used in Korea, it's used in Japan, uh, the UK, australia, it's. It's great. They used it at USC here, university of South Carolina. Uh, or a required text. The Navy School of Music used it required text. It was used in it for a while, berkeley, you know. So, man, crazy again, again.

Speaker 1: 17:17

You're an underachiever. What's wrong with you?

Speaker 2: 17:19

Yeah, well, I was really driven man to write the book, and that may, we'll get into that later how that happened. But anyway, back to how I moved out. You know at that time, man, either it was kind of New York or LA. Yeah, you know, that was would make your career. Yes, you know, and, and I was, you know I'm, I'm a R&B kind of pop drummer. I mean that's a commercial drummer I'm not. I love playing jazz and played in the lab band at North Texas and all that stuff. I'm a good big band player. But I at that time I just thought New York was more of a jazz scene, yeah, and LA was more of a recording pop scene, right. So I chose LA Move there.

Speaker 2: 18:02

In 1984, april Fool's Day, I drove out from From Dallas in my blue Ford, he kind of line van, with my drums and a tux, that's all, that was it. And so you know, luckily, man, I met some great friends and things kind of clicked, and you know that's. I mean, that's a long story. I don't know how deep you want to go into that.

Speaker 1: 18:29

Sometimes you move into a new area and I've heard that in different territories at different times, have been very protective about their market and well, it was a little bit like that and of course LA was huge and at that time I mean there's so many guys.

Speaker 2: 18:45

But I was, you know, lucky because the book had been out for four years my advanced phone studies book and, like I said, it really hit it a great time, the right place, at the right time, you know. And and I became friends, like I said, with Louis Belson and Ed Shaughnessy and all those guys I had sent the book to. I had, you know, it's funny man, back then you would get people's phone numbers, you know, through other contacts and stuff. And you know I sent the book to Louis and Ed and Colin Bailey and you know all the great Jim Chapin, who's another great author, player, teacher, and, and these guys wrote some incredible things, man, about the book and really kind of boosted it with their endorsement. So, you know, other drummers started, kind of all Rick Latham's here. Man, he's got this great book out, you know, blah, blah, blah. So it was a positive in Some ways. You know that I was kind of not just some other guy, you know, they just moved to town.

Speaker 1: 19:47

How did you so? How did you come to the attention of Quincy Jones?

Speaker 2: 19:51

Well, that's an interesting story, man. Just another thing right place at the right time. I was at the Union one day in LA and At that time you would have to, you used to have to go to the Union to pick up your check so they would get there, get their portion of it, which was cool, and they're withholding the kind of thing. So I was in line at the Union man and there was another buddy John Gates was his name and he was. He had gone to North Texas. He was a little bit older than me and he said yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:26

Hey, rick, man, how you doing? I heard you move the town, blah, blah, blah. I said, yeah, man, it's great, everything's cool and loving. It had only been there for really a month or two, I think, right. And and John said, well, listen, man, I'm leaving town, I'm going on tour with somebody and I I wanted, I need somebody to cover this gig, wanted if you'd like to do it. And I said, well, what is it? He said it's the dance rehearsals for a movie, and that's about all he said.

Speaker 2: 20:56

But it was with a great well-known pianist Companies, and Devon person was this guy's name, and at that time, you know, kind of dance movies were really big. There's kind of break, break dance movies and stuff. So he said, manage dance rehearsals With the dancers, you drums and piano and you have to kind of play these, make up these things that they dance to, you know. So it was almost like you actually write is called sketching and you actually kind of write the piano guy Devon would come up with some, you know they would say, okay, we need some action thing like this, it sounds like this and kind of like this. He would just kind of groove and he would just play some off the top of his head and I would, and I would play drums and they would start writing the dance numbers you know. Finish, though, so man it would.

Speaker 2: 21:52

and then I found out that Quincy Jones was producing the music and Sidney Portier he was executive producer of the movie. So, man, it just. You know that that was, that was a great, great opportunity and a great adventure for me, man Early, and and so when you get a gig like that, everybody hears about it, of course.

Speaker 1: 22:15

How often have you thanked your friend for getting you that?

Speaker 2: 22:18

Believe me, man, me anytime, anytime. So what was what's really funny about that man? And I told a story to somebody just the other day. But you know, at that time drum machines were kind of coming on the scene and replacing a lot of drummers and people, usually in the studios, and you know they we went in of what you call pre-record. We would do a basic track to tunes before a movie and then they bring in the orchestration and you know, yeah, horns and strings and all this stuff. But we got to do the pre-record to a lot of the stuff and stuff we had written.

Speaker 2: 22:53

So I did the pre-records and then they say, okay, thank you very much. You know you get, you know your union, you know you make good money on that stuff. Yeah, first we were getting paid for those rehearsals, with the first for a couple of months, like every day, you know, five days a week, so, and playing with beautiful dancers. You know I was single at the time, so you know we're watching these girls dance and play the drums, what. What could be wrong with that? So and so, man, we, they did a pre-record. And then a couple weeks later I got a phone call and they said hey, rick, you need to come back in. They want you to do something on that pre-record, and I didn't really know what it was exactly. So I went down to the studio and they had tried to replace something. I played like a funky, one of my kind of cool grooves that the dancers knew and liked, and they danced to it, and when they tried to cut the movie, they had Recreated this groove with a drum machine.

Speaker 2: 23:55

Yeah and, and the dancer said what happened to that stuff? Rick played what we can't we can't dance to this, and so that was great man. So I actually replaced the drum machine on that Particular thing, man. So that was kind of turning your tables on the drum.

Speaker 1: 24:14

Take funny story.

Speaker 2: 24:15

Exactly, it felt really good, man. It felt kind of cool, like, okay, that's cool, you know. And it was cool that they, you know, they noticed it enough. You know, the dancers, I mean, they were in there. They were in there on a soundstage cutting the scene and all of a sudden they had kind of Reconstructed it and they said what the fuck? You know, what is this? Where's? Where's that cool thing that Rick was playing?

Speaker 2: 24:40

so they called me and I got to go in and do it man, and it was you know they go all the great studios Westlake in LA and all that stuff and it was just really really one of my first big, Big opportunities, which was great.

Speaker 1: 24:53

And did you? Did you do more for Quincy Jones productions?

Speaker 2: 24:56

No, no, no, just did that one movie, did that one movie, but I stayed in touch, you know, and you know met some other guys that did some other things for that I worked for and stuff, you know some other producers and stuff like that. So you know, when it's couple of the engineers called me for some things, so yeah, that was great.

Speaker 1: 25:16

So I'm looking at your work history that you have listed up on your Facebook page and that was mid-80s You're in LA. You're gigging around any other major things you worked on during that time.

Speaker 2: 25:29

Before we'll get to, before we get to Edgar winner, because I know that was in the 90s, right, right, well, yeah, actually it's funny because I had played just before I moved to LA. I played with BB King for the first time and that was that was. That was another. That was a great, great thing and Went on to play a couple of gigs. I never toured with BB, but I played several gigs and the first one Was at a, like a Nam show. They used to have the Nam show, you know big music Friends show, yeah, they used to. They used to have the summer show in Chicago, right, and the winter show in LA. So the last one I think it was the very last one they had in Chicago.

Speaker 2: 26:13

Man, I was playing Pearl drums at the time. I'm now playing DW. I'm playing DW for 40 something years, but I was endorsing that was one of my first endorsers pearl, right and, and pearl and Gibson were they're Co-mingled somehow, you know a parent company or something. Pearl and Gibson were together and of course, bb King. Lucille was a Gibson 335 or whatever, I don't know 335, but you know he's Lucille has to talk, but, um, but so Pearl and Gibson put on this bigger bit man and Asked me to play with. Bb was playing when he was, of course, the big name, but it was. Then they put a band together with Neil Sean for Jerry, yeah, bb King, okay, playing guitars. Ralph Armstrong, a great bass player, to play with John look on to you and bass players, no, ralph. Or from Detroit, he was a another Gibson guy and then Larry London, pearl and I. So we double-drunk with BB King.

Speaker 2: 27:18

So that was, yeah, that was incredible. That was incredible. So that was at the NAMM show and then we played several other concerts like that, you know, for the companies. So so that was, that was great, man. That was a Really a thrill to play those. You know, the thrill has gone. Yeah, all those great shuffles and stuff would be be, and I kind of kept in touch with some of the guys in that band. And Then Tony Coleman, who was the last drummer, would be. They played with him for a long time. Tony and I are good friends too, so but just, you know that you, just you know playing those kind of gigs, man, it's just networking. Yeah, you know you need to meet other people from that and you know by the time. So by the time, those were two major things that I had kind of under my belt, you know, bb King.

Speaker 2: 28:09

Some people heard about that and then also, when I was living in Dallas, chuck Rainey had moved there. The great bass player played with Aretha and plays on a lot of those Steeler Dan great tunes. I played with Bernard Purdy on a lot of stuff, yeah, and and I played in Chuck's band in Dallas For a couple of years. So when I moved to LA, you know I had worked with Chuck Rainey, which people knew about. The book was out, I had worked with BB King, so those were, you know, pretty good calling cards, yeah. And then all of a sudden I get that thing with Quincy producing the music with that, you know. So, man, it just started falling together. You know again, right place at the right time looks good and as my yeah, yeah and being able to deliver, you know.

Speaker 2: 28:57

That's another thing too. It's not all about you know who, you know. You got to be able to, you know, deliver you know and be punctual beyond time and, you know, have good equipment.

Speaker 1: 29:09

Well, you know, I watched the documentary Hired Guns and and right every single one of them said you better be on your A game, you better be able to bring it, because there's a guy on the hallway that's ready.

Speaker 2: 29:19

Exactly exactly, exactly, man, it's a. It's a funny story because there were some auditions that I did before I got Edgers did. There were some auditions that I did around town.

Speaker 1: 29:30

And.

Speaker 2: 29:31

I remember, man, I went in one audition one time and it was, I think, lou Graham was putting together a new band, you know, and a great singer, you know, one of the voices, voices of rock, you know. And so I went in, man, they at some reason, I think I just kind of bulldozed my way in the last day of the auditions or something, and I played and they were like really complimentary and like really like kind of freaked out because they had already chosen somebody, oh man, and they had already told a guy. But I went in somehow and got in there and played with the guys and it was great, man. But you know, so it happens. But yeah, like you said, there's always somebody, man, that's ready, you know, to do it.

Speaker 1: 30:20

Before we get to Edgar, I want to ask you and I told you I was going to ask you this question, so maybe you had time to think about it and maybe you know already your Mount Rushmore of drummers, the four and I know it's hard to pick, I mean it really is but four drummers that you really admire for either their style, their technique or what they've achieved. Four drummers in your opinion this should be on the drummer Mount Rushmore.

Speaker 2: 30:44

Okay, well, this is mine, you know, and there's so many.

Speaker 1: 30:47

Yes, I know it's all subjective.

Speaker 2: 30:50

So many, but I mean there is a lot we can talk about some other guys too, but Buddy Rich, steve Gadd, tony Williams and the fourth is really hard. I'm trying to think of who I would say would be the fourth one, and it would probably be between, you know, mike Clark and Harvey Mason. So you know that to me, I mean those influence me.

Speaker 1: 31:23

And see those guys.

Speaker 2: 31:25

You know so many drummers just through the networking, a lot of drummers.

Speaker 1: 31:29

You know names people never heard of. Now, everybody knows Neil Pert, his legend. He's one of the greatest rock drummers ever and you know a lot of drummers will default to him and they'll default to John Bonham Right, well, bonham too. Man see, that's another. Again it's so hard to choose. It's like trying to pick your favorite breath of air, you know.

Speaker 2: 31:49

But yeah, and the reason I picked them is because they were, you know, influential to me, I mean, and to drummers, I think, across the board, right, I mean, as is, you know, bonham, and you know all those guys, man, there are so many, you know, there's, you know, even you know, I mean, I love the James game, you know, I love Jimmy Fox and it's a great drummer. A lot of people don't know, you know, and I love him. Nigel Olson man, play some great stuff with Elton John. I mean, you know, it's just, you know, and it is hard, man, it's very difficult, you know, and then you talk about, then you talk about, you know, like Joe Morello, you know.

Speaker 1: 32:39

Roy Haines. Do I have to pick just four?

Speaker 2: 32:41

Come on yeah right, mount Rushmore might have about 20 guys.

Speaker 1: 32:45

Well, now, we're gonna go on to Edgar winner. I was going back through something today and I and I keyed in. I looked up Edgar's name and I had forgotten that Edgar played saxophone on my Be All Indole Favorite album of all time and that was the Bad Out of Hell Meatloaf Bad Out of Hell.

Speaker 2: 33:04

He played sax he played saxophone on that album.

Speaker 1: 33:06

He's a great saxophone player, man.

Speaker 2: 33:07

Oh, he's tremendous. He's a great sax player man. He played, you know, he played sax, organ, piano and sings and could do all of that stuff incredibly well.

Speaker 1: 33:21

I had forgotten. You know Max Weinberg played drums on three of the tracks and I had forgotten that. Willie Wilcox, I didn't know that. I didn't even know that Max Weinberg was the drummer on Bad Out of Hell. You took the words right out of my mouth and Paradise. So, Paradise by the dashboard lights. Willie Wilcox played on the other tracks Right right, you're the great drummer and I didn't know that. I had forgotten that. You know and I looked at you know, todd Rundgren produced, played all the guitar parts.

Speaker 2: 33:49

Sure sure, we played with Todd. We played with Todd a couple times with Edgar, that was great.

Speaker 1: 33:54

Oh man, that has had to be awesome, man, really. So how did you come to the attention of Edgar Winter?

Speaker 2: 34:00

Well, it's funny, man. I'll tell you what happened. I didn't even have audition for Edgar, because Carmine of Pease recommended me. Another great drummer yeah yeah, another great guy too that influenced the bottom.

Speaker 2: 34:15

You know, I mean really, really crazy. Carmine's a great, great friend of mine, man, and we have a lot of mutual respect because you know he wrote his realistic rock book, was one of the first rock drum books and it's still a great book and I used to use it with my students, you know, when I was teaching before I wrote my book and Carmine and I became really good friends, man, and Carmine had that gig played with Edgar for a short time and he recommended me, man, you know. So I went in. I didn't really audition but I did go in and play, you know, with Edgar. One day We'd get, you know, called me to a studio but you know I got the gig and man.

Speaker 2: 34:57

Edgar and I really got along great. I mean, he's a great drummer too, yeah. I mean he plays Tim Bolly's on Frankenstein. But he's got a good sense of time, man, and he's a good. He knows drums and he likes drums. So you know, we really got along great, man. He liked my drumming a lot and it was just a great, great experience. But that's how I got the gig, you know. And it was funny. Couple years later Carmine and I were talking. You know Carmine's from New York and he's like hey, what the fuck, hey you rich, hey.

Speaker 2: 35:31

So. So we were talking and he said hey, man, what the fuck you making more money with Edgar than I am, than I did, you know. So that was funny, we were laughing, you know joking, but it was funny. So but that was that's again, man networking.

Speaker 1: 35:47

Yeah, yeah, now, edgar produced. He produced a couple albums too. I looked, he produced Open Fire, ronnie Montrose.

Speaker 2: 35:55

Yeah, we played with Ronnie a couple yeah, too bad man, you know he's bad too, but it was great. We yeah, we played with all those guys. Man. Like I said, rick Derringer, we even played man. We played one New Year's Eve in Beaumont, where he's from, and also Janice Joplin is from Beaumont. I don't know if people know that, but they kind of grew up together, but we played in Beaumont on a New Year's Eve and Edgar's mom came to the gig. That was great. And Jerry LaCrosse sang man, the guy from White Trash, you know.

Speaker 2: 36:29

Oh well, yeah, yeah, so, and the White Trash horns used to play with us every once in a while. Yeah, that was killer. We're doing those things, man. The White Trash record is killer.

Speaker 1: 36:40

And you got to just go around the world with Edgar.

Speaker 2: 36:44

But we did, man. We went to Japan several times, all over the United States, Canada.

Speaker 1: 36:49

I posted a video you guys playing the Montrose Jazz Festival. I saw that.

Speaker 2: 36:54

Yeah, thanks for posting. Oh yeah, I'm trying to get people excited about the podcast.

Speaker 1: 36:58

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 37:00

Well, it was. That was a great experience, man, the night we played. Man, check this out that the same stage was. We played. It wasn't in this order I forget the order, right, but REM played that night on the same stage. Bb played that night with his big band, david Sanborn and Gary Moore. Oh wow Blues guitar yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:28

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 37:29

So that was crazy. And we were all standing in the same hotel and then we were all down in the bar drinking and stuff. Man, that was killer. And Claude Nobbs man, he's passed away too, but he was the host man of all those great years and they still have it. The Montrose Jazz Festival. Claude Nobbs had a big chateau there, man, he would invite us up for parties and stuff. It was just a really incredible, very special thing. And on tour it runs for about a month.

Speaker 1: 38:01

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 38:02

It's like all month long, so they have every kind, and it used to be just jazz stuff, but now they've opened it up to reach a wider audience. Yeah, which is cool. Which is cool.

Speaker 1: 38:15

You mentioned everybody staying in the same hotel and there's a lot of partying going on. It's rock and roll, and when I was younger, I did my share of partying and all the other stuff too.

Speaker 2: 38:30

But how?

Speaker 1: 38:30

did you handle yourself, man? How did you get through all of that?

Speaker 2: 38:33

Well, we got pretty crazy at times, man, and that was the 90s, so it was a little crazy late 80s and 90s and stuff. So yeah, I mean there was definitely some illicit things going around, but I stopped all that stuff years ago and was able to just kind of cold turkeys, stop doing all the bad stuff.

Speaker 2: 38:56

It seemed like from the beginning you were serious about your work writing the books and studying Exactly, and I always have been man and I'd like to have a good time, but I'm not stupid and that could be debatable Depending on you, if you ask my wife.

Speaker 1: 39:18

Well, it depends on the company and the time of day.

Speaker 2: 39:21

That's right.

Speaker 1: 39:23

But no.

Speaker 2: 39:24

I still like to have a drink and stuff, but I don't drink that much. Man and I just I'd like to take care of business and I've always been that way. And that's one thing, man, that my parents taught me. I got from them. My dad was a hardworking guy man and he worked for Winn Dixie his whole life.

Speaker 2: 39:40

I don't know how many people remember Winn Dixie stores. It was a big chain man back when I was a kid and he went to work man and worked his way up from a bag boy at the company man, a stock boy, to an executive with a company. Wow. So you know, we worked for the company for 45 years, man Crazy. And you know just my mom man, I had a great. You know my parents love my parents. They're both past but you know, taught me some good. You know ethics and morals and, yeah, I always wanted to take care, man. You know, and it's important I think that's another thing too that you know all these great guys that you've talked about, I mean they've had maybe doubts with you know, trouble times and stuff, but they all take care of business and the ones that really last learn how to take care, you know.

Speaker 1: 40:35

You know, I notice you have your own signature drumsticks with a pro mark, pro mark, yeah, and was that a really cool moment in your life when you saw that on a drumstick?

Speaker 2: 40:47

Yeah, it really was, man. I had a great relationship with the owner, the first real owner of pro mark, Herb Brockstein, who created the company and Herbs passed but his son, maury, took over the company and they were based in Houston, texas. The factory's still there the pro mark factory and then the Dario which is the big string company. They bought pro mark several years ago. So, yeah, so it was.

Speaker 2: 41:19

You know, it was interesting, man, to have that stick. No-transcript, something that's very special to me. Man, I had a great. You know I designed a stick. It's just really good feeling, natural, well-balanced stick. You know, I mean, everybody's got a different kind of personal feeling for drumsticks, but people like it. It's one of the best-selling sticks. And yeah, man, to get endorsements, you know that was something at that time. I've been playing pro-markman for 30 years at least. I've had that stick and I've been with DW for 40-something years. I've been with Istanbul Mehmet for 40-something years. You know Evans and Pro-Mark for like 30. So I'm not the guy that jumps around and you know, I got those endorsements when I was young and so they really mean a lot to me.

Speaker 1: 42:12

So Istanbul is your symbols, right.

Speaker 2: 42:14

Istanbul Mehmet. Uh-huh, yeah, there's a couple different companies. Sorry, sorry to interrupt, but I would like to just a lot of people get confused. There's an Istanbul company that, actually and there's an Istanbul Agap. Now, agap and Mehmet were together at one time, it was just Istanbul.

Speaker 1: 42:33

And.

Speaker 2: 42:34

Agap, another gentleman. They were partners and he died in a boating accident some years ago. So his son took over the Istanbul Agap. So they split a little bit and became Istanbul Agap, now Mehmet, who is the original guy, the real symbol smith. He kept his part, so it's called Istanbul Mehmet, so a Turkish guy still made in Istanbul. And so I'd like to differentiate and really say Istanbul Mehmet, because there's Istanbul company and then there's the Istanbul Agap, so Istanbul Mehmet, yeah, but he man, he's probably the greatest living symbol maker. He actually made the famous Kays when Zildan was in Istanbul, when the Zildan factory was in Istanbul. He made the early Kays Zildans when he was like 11 years old. So he's the real guy. Everybody else has learned from him or someone else and they try to recreate that stuff, but to me, man, istanbul Mehmet has a real special sound.

Speaker 2: 43:45

And I really I love him. We've got a great relationship. All the people that worked there have been the factory several times at Istanbul and I just love the symbols and all those companies. Like I said, I got great relationships with DW Evans and Pro March Really great.

Speaker 1: 44:01

Yeah, you mentioned Evans drum heads. They've been around forever.

Speaker 2: 44:06

Right.

Speaker 1: 44:08

You have a preferred foot pedal? That's always a big thing with drummers. Is there a preferred pedal?

Speaker 2: 44:15

Well, I used to DW 5000 pedals, the first or the turbo ones. They make a lot of different ones. They make one called the accelerator and they make a bunch of different things, but the 5000 regular, 5000 turbo is my pedal. That's the one I use all the time.

Speaker 1: 44:36

I ask a lot of drummers sometimes how many drums sets you have, or the question a lot of times the one that gets me sometimes is too low. I've got four drum sets but I have 142 snares.

Speaker 2: 44:51

Right, right. Well, todd Todd, todd Sucerman talking about sticks drum.

Speaker 1: 44:55

Oh, I've seen his room.

Speaker 2: 44:57

You know he's got yeah, he's got so many snare drums. Yeah, that's crazy, it's really crazy, but that's cool. I mean he likes to collect and I like to use my stuff. You know, I have probably 10 snare drums and I have six drum kits, beautiful DW drum kits and I know people go, oh, that's a lot, but I have two in Europe. I've got three here and I've got one more in Germany.

Speaker 1: 45:29

And people don't understand too that different drum kits with sizes and kicks, they make different sounds.

Speaker 2: 45:36

Exactly in different woods. I have different size drums and stuff like that. So, yeah, it's all you know. I don't try to abuse that and I don't ask for a bunch of free stuff. But it is nice, man, to have full endorsements and I get everything free, which is nice. But I don't abuse that and I collect cymbals. I have probably over 100 cymbals.

Speaker 2: 46:03

I love cymbals man, and I've got some old cymbals and some that I made with a very special guy man Roberto Spizzicchino was a very famous Italian guy that I made. He's known among drummers. He was kind of a jazz guy and made these great cymbals and I made some cymbals with him one time. He became a friend and I've got some of those cymbals that we made back in the 90s in Italy. But yeah, I just love cymbals. I love the sound. I have a lot of different ride cymbals and different crash cymbals, hi hats and different things. I've got a set I like to use with Mac with this playing blues. I've got a set I like to use with Edgar. Edgar had a favorite snare drum. Did he like the mine that I would always take on the road? You know it was a DW drum.

Speaker 1: 46:57

Different snares get different sounds. They're deeper. The wood's different. They're different sizes.

Speaker 2: 47:03

Exactly, exactly, exactly. So all that stuff is so personal, you know and it's you know it just the way it feels. You know the way it sounds and the way it feels. You get used to that stuff. Yeah, that's pretty cool. So you like to use something. You like to use something that feels good and it's comfortable, you know, like a pair of shoes, yeah, so you left.

Speaker 1: 47:26

You left Edgar Winter after touring extensively for several years in 2002. Is that correct? You were still in LA.

Speaker 2: 47:33

Yeah, yeah, still in LA, and then for a couple years I didn't really go on the road, but I was teaching a lot. And then I got to the gig with Juice Newton.

Speaker 1: 47:46

I was in L5.

Speaker 2: 47:48

And yeah, and the way I got that was through the sound man that worked for Edgar was now working for Juice. So again, I did an audition. They had a, you know, they asked me to come in and play one day and I played and I think the next day we went out, went out on the road.

Speaker 1: 48:07

you know Well, she has one of the most powerful voices that I've ever heard.

Speaker 2: 48:12

She's a great singer man and Juice was really still sounding, really really great. She still sounds great, you know.

Speaker 1: 48:20

When I first heard the sweetest thing I've ever known and then you know, angel of the Morning and then, of course, queen of Hearts, but the sweetest thing I ever known I just I could not fathom the power behind that woman's voice. It was incredible.

Speaker 2: 48:32

Yeah Well, she always would hit that high note man at the end of the tune every night. Man, I'd never, never watch it. You know, she was really incredible and a great band Actually, otha Young, that wrote some of those tunes. He was still in the band when I joined the band so yeah, he and Juice wrote that Angel of the Morning. So really incredible. So yeah, playing those kind of tunes, man, even like Edgar, you know, playing all those great tunes, juice playing, it's really a special feeling. You know, when you play behind an artist, just like you know, like anybody playing with any, you know, any younger guy that gets a gig with a, like one of their idol bands you know, it's incredible man, just to play those legendary songs, man, and you know and play.

Speaker 2: 49:24

you know you don't need to play a bunch of new stuff. I mean you need to kind of pay homage to the original. Yeah, so you know, it's not like you have to copy it exactly, but there's certain fills and stuff like that that are fun to play. And it made the tune. You know what made it famous.

Speaker 1: 49:42

I explain that to people sometimes. It's sometimes certain things about a certain song is like comfort food.

Speaker 2: 49:48

You expect to hear it and expect to hear it that way, yeah you wouldn't play in the air tonight and not go, you wouldn't go shoot, get that, put that. No, you know.

Speaker 1: 50:05

That opening to Billy Joel that Liberty came up with. You don't play. You know you don't change that. You try to play it exactly.

Speaker 2: 50:15

Man, that's funny man, because you know I called him. I don't live through it very well man. And I called him. We played. We played the hard rock up in Bristol, virginia. There's a new hard rock up there. We play it every couple of weeks with Matt, so I was coming back and that tune. What's the matter with the clone?

Speaker 1: 50:40

that you were Still rock and roll to me.

Speaker 2: 50:42

Yeah, okay, okay, it's got that one fill. Yeah, I called him. I picked up the. It was playing it the car on the way back I picked it up. I said that is the best fill ever in a tune. I said did you just think of that on the spot and play 16th against that shuffle man that you know? And he was like laughing and stuff and I said that is the best fill ever. Yeah, but yeah, he played some great stuff too. Very identifiable man. He, I think, made that band.

Speaker 1: 51:14

Oh yeah, I mean that band had a certain feel and a certain groove to it and it starts right there with him, Sure.

Speaker 2: 51:21

And he's a heavy player, man. He's a hard hitter, you know. But you know Edgar's stuff too, man, frankenstein, those drum things, you know. That's a, you know you want to play that kind of like the original.

Speaker 1: 51:32

Well, you have to honor that. You know, you really do have to honor that.

Speaker 2: 51:36

Exactly, exactly.

Speaker 1: 51:38

Because it could be disappointing. You go to a concert and you don't hear that. Like I said, that comfort thing You've always heard and you know it's there and the drummer that does it, you know it's just, it's great.

Speaker 2: 51:47

Sure, sure, that's just like. You know a lot of the stuff too, man, with you know Dary's Danny Serifing, the original Chicago drummer, another great buddy of mine, man, and I loved his stuff and I was so shocked and sad when you know he left a band and stuff. I mean because his sound too, man, that was Chicago, that those drum parts man make me smile and all that stuff.

Speaker 2: 52:13

That's you know, that's Danny, you know he made that stuff. And then it's in and Blood Sweat and Tears in Bobby Columbia, another great, great drummer that became a record executive.

Speaker 1: 52:24

Yeah, in between touring with you, snoot, and in between touring with Edgar Wynnard, you're giving lessons Right Now. Did you take beginner students all the way to advanced?

Speaker 2: 52:35

I did for a short time but I always had more advanced. You know, intermediate to advanced guys.

Speaker 2: 52:41

Right and and during and during that time too, sorry to interrupt. No, During that time too I wrote my second book in 1990. I wrote that contemporary drum set technique which was more of a like linear excuse me, linear kind of drumming. So so that you know, I was always still thinking about teaching and writing and sharing ideas and stuff. But yeah, I I had, you know, several, you know, beginning students, but mostly guys that were playing, you know, and a lot of guys had used the book. So they wanted to kind of take lessons with the guidebook, the book and stuff.

Speaker 1: 53:20

So, when you're talking to drummers, what philosophies or what, what do you try to and and buy in them? What do you try to get them to understand about drumming and the techniques that they're using and the feel and the?

Speaker 2: 53:31

Yeah, feel is the main thing. I mean I, I do work with a lot of guys on technique because, like I said, I'm I'm lucky and fortunate and I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I have really good technique, but I learned it from really great teachers, right. So you know, a lot of drummers don't have very good technique and some drummers have terrible technique but a great feel, and some drummers have, you know, great technique and no feel. So so the thing I try to teach, you know it's a kind of happy medium, but feel is the main thing, man, to have a good feel when you're playing. Right, you know, you can, you can be.

Speaker 2: 54:09

There's a certain amount of sloppiness that some things need a little bit. You know something that can't be too perfect, yeah, and. But the feel you know and sound is something else. I don't think. I think a lot of drummers don't understand how to get a good sound from the drums. You know tuning your drums, not only, but how you hit the drum. You know there's a certain like. I'm not a guy man, there's a lot of guys and I did a lot of this when I was in school, like playing in supper clubs and playing brushes and people clanging glasses and eating and shit while you're playing. I hate that. I hate that man. I like to play concerts, you know, and I know I'm probably burning a lot of bridges that people hear this, you know, and I like to play a jazz gig every once in a while, but it's you know, I'm a hard hitter too.

Speaker 2: 55:00

You know, I'm not a brush guy. You know I mean, I can play brushes and I played a lot of brushes in my lifetime. But you know you have to learn how to you know and play for the music. You know, it's not all about a drum solo, it's about supporting the song. You know, and that's what was great about live, for instance, you know, with Billy Joel. So you know, I just try to teach guys to be musical and have you know good technique, or work on their technique at least, and but have a good feel and a good sound on the drums, because I think a lot, of a lot of guys too that play things like supper club gigs and stuff, they don't hit the drums.

Speaker 2: 55:39

You know, they're used to playing very light. So if they had to play in front of 75,000 people, that's a whole different story. You know, yeah, you see a lot of people. You know a lot of drummers, especially like Facebook and Instagram. They'll post their drum solo, you know, and they're playing in the club with, like you know, 10 people. Yeah, nobody, I don't know man, nobody. I don't even want to hear a drum solo. I'm not a solo drummer man. I play when I have to man to do something.

Speaker 2: 56:12

But if there's not a big, big crowd or something I don't want to play. Nobody's interested in a drum solo.

Speaker 1: 56:18

Yeah, I mean that's a that's always been a concert thing to me, you know.

Speaker 2: 56:21

Right, exactly, exactly. But it's interesting. But, like you said, you know, I mean, yeah, just, you know, I like the guys, you know, and guys tend to really do get it. You know, when I talk to them, guys that have been playing, you know, for a long time, you know they'll come back to me, said man, after a few lessons. They said, man, my band sounds, I sound better and feel better, so that's great. Oh, yeah, you know, that's the best, that's the best compliment you can have, you know, as a teacher and for those guys you know, sometimes you get them to understand this.

Speaker 1: 56:54

Sometimes, if you drag the beat, if you're just behind it, you know it sure gives a whole different feel to the song, sure man, you could be on top or lay back. Yeah, a lot of a lot of Motown artists were. That was a big thing, you know, and I listened to a lot of the muscle shows, music and that kind of thing. Sure Dragon, just slightly behind the beat man to give it a whole different feel.

Speaker 2: 57:16

That's what I yeah, that's what I grew up listening to. Like I said, man, I listened to a lot of black R&B, gospel, you know, and that stuff. You know real R&B at that time, you know from the 60s, and stuff that's that's laid back, yeah, and some of that muscle shows, like the muscle show stuff, man, some of that stuff is real sloppy but it sounds great because it all worked together. You know, all those guys were in the same groove, you know.

Speaker 1: 57:46

I listened to the Beach Boys over and over and over again throughout my youth and that's how I discovered Hal. Blaine yeah.

Speaker 2: 57:58

Yeah, I started to say Hal man. I went to one of his birthday parties. Oh wow, he was a trip man. He had some great stuff.

Speaker 1: 58:06

Oh, I'll bet.

Speaker 2: 58:07

And a great guy man, but think about all the stuff he did. Yeah, very different man. Like you said Beach Boys, sonny and Cher, the Monkeys.

Speaker 1: 58:16

Come on. I mean, they're playing. They're playing on everybody's albums and they're the most unknown people in the world.

Speaker 2: 58:24

Exactly the Wrecking Crew. You know I mean.

Speaker 1: 58:26

Blaine Campbell did a stint in there for a while, and of course Carol Kay on bass and Tommy Tedesco on guitar and just heavy hitter, just some of the greatest musicians that you've never heard of.

Speaker 2: 58:39

Exactly, and the muscle shows guys too.

Speaker 1: 58:42

Well, and all the motown artists, all the James and all those guys that played, yeah, yeah, you know they never got credit on the albums, never.

Speaker 2: 58:51

Right, Another great player too, man, James Gadson. Yes, One of my all-time favorite in Bernard, of course, in Bernard Purdy. But Gadson, you know, played all that great Bill Withers stuff, man, and played a bunch of other stuff too. Man, he played, you know, he played a lot of stuff that people don't know. You know Well and that's true.

Speaker 1: 59:12

You know talking about all these unknown session musicians. That's true in every genre, too, because Nashville is full of some of the best players in the world that you've never heard of. Sure, Sure and.

Speaker 2: 59:22

I actually love country music, man, I love to do you know a lot of country. People think country is going through commercial and stuff. But man, for a drummer and a guitar player, country music is slamming. It's like Aiden's Rock, you know, I love it. Yeah, I really like all that stuff.

Speaker 1: 59:38

They've changed a lot of the dynamic of country and they're gearing it toward a younger audience and they're gearing it toward concert type music. You know now, and I'm a I love traditional stuff, so I'm listening to guys Drake, milligan, I'm loving the stuff this kid's doing.

Speaker 2: 59:54

It's got a new traditional. I like, yeah, I like traditional country too man. I don't dislike it, but I like the new stuff too and I think there's room for everything. Like you said, it's a different audience.

Speaker 1: 1:00:05

You're touring with juice Newton through the 2014, and that's just a few years back. Now you said, and I'm not mistaken, you started another band after that. Was there a band? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:00:17

Yeah, well, I had, yeah, I had a band in LA called the groove Right Right, and that was a really great band, man, it had some great players. It man, albert Wing, was playing sax, alto and tenor sax. Albert played with Frank Zappler Right, a lot of sax players know who Albert is. Ken Tussing was playing trombone, played with Ray Charles to it with Ray Charles for a very long time. He was in a Navy band also and stuff, but the sessions in LA.

Speaker 2: 1:00:52

Matt Garty, great guitar player that actually is from Dallas, that I knew in Dallas was living in LA. And Vail Johnson, great bass player, has been playing with Kenny G for about 30 years, I think. Another great, he lives in Nashville now but played with a lot of other like jazz artists and stuff to great bass player. And Bob Luna, keyboard player that was played with Dionne Warwick, and so all these guys were, you know, la guys and I knew them and had played gigs with them around town. So we put it, get band together, sort of like. You remember the jazz crusaders, you know the crusaders would stick.

Speaker 2: 1:01:32

Hooper play drums, joe Sample played keyboards. They had a band, you know, that was kind of built around trombone and tenor so that was kind of the it was more funky crusaders kind of sound. And we did a live record from the baked potato famous club in LA. We have a live record that you can hear online. Yeah, great, really great band. So yeah, we played the baked potato about once a month, you know for several years. So that was a really great band.

Speaker 2: 1:02:05

And yeah, that was the last band I had before I moved here. I actually was living in, I lived in Italy for five years. I had an apartment, I was working a lot in Italy with some producers from Germany and Italy, and I had a trio over there with some great guys too, and it was just called, a lathe from Ruggiero. Robin was a guitar player named Nicola Sarato, so lathe from Robin Sarato, and it was a trio playing all original music that we played in Poland and France and, you know, around Italy and Croatia, and you know it was great man. So that was a more instrumental kind of project, as was the Grusebacher's too. So, and then I moved here, man, in two years ago, you know in 2001.

Speaker 1: 1:03:00

Well, they say you can never go home.

Speaker 2: 1:03:01

but you did, well I had no intention of it's funny, I had no intention of ever moving back here, man. But during COVID I was when that first started I was in Italy and it hit really hard in Italy. So I came back to LA, gave up my apartment in Italy, came back to LA and my wife and I, you know, during those three years, man, that was really bad for you know, the whole music business as well as every business just about. So we were thinking you know what's what's happening and what happens when COVID's over and I might go back to Europe. You know, the East Coast is six hours closer, you know, than LA. So you know, and you know, la was getting, you know the homeless thing was kind of getting big and expensive. Man, la is expensive. I love LA, man, don't get me wrong, I really love it.

Speaker 2: 1:03:53

But you know, I started talking then to Jim again, my teacher that was retired back here, linda, his wife, the real estate agent. So you know they said, man, now's a good time to buy and there's a couple places, maybe. So we started, my wife and I said, you know, maybe we'll move. You know, move back there, man. It's like I said, the East Coast, which is great. I see some, see some seasons.

Speaker 2: 1:04:17

You know that I didn't see in LA, which is again great, but you know, and plus man, we're spending about two thirds less every month and we have a beautiful house with, you know, a big piece of land and you know it's just beautiful. Man, I got my studio here. So you know, once you've made these connections and stuff like we've been talking about, you could live anywhere. You know, and still do the same thing. I still do a lot of tracks. I'm teaching here. I still teach online as well, but, you know, teaching people all over the world and teaching live lessons again, and and doing tracks for people, that's. And now they dig with Matt you know, my car.

Speaker 2: 1:05:00

You know, I got that a couple years ago.

Speaker 1: 1:05:01

So how did that come about? Playing with dr Mack?

Speaker 2: 1:05:06

Well, my man is such a great guy I was actually I. We started a band with some guys. I met here Mike Frost, great bass player. He's from New York originally but was living in Aiken when I first moved here. So we every it's funny man, because Mike's a great player, jazz guy, you know, new York guy, grew up playing all time all kind of music and you know, and when I moved here, I mean people kind of knew my background and you know they said, oh man, you need to just meet Mike Frost, he's the guy that you know. You guys were playing great together.

Speaker 2: 1:05:42

So we met, you know, and played and kind of started a band with Austin. Yeah, plays with Mac too, so that's kind of how. So we started this band and played some games, you know, and then Mike, I think first Through Austin, got the gig with Mac and then, and then something happened with the drummer. They were looking for a new drummer and then so naturally, you know, we've been playing together. So they say, well, what about Rick? Man, let's see if Rick wants to do it. So I've been doing that now for about two years. Yeah, it's great man, it's a great band.

Speaker 1: 1:06:19

You guys sounded great at the at the awards ceremony. You only got to play.

Speaker 2: 1:06:26

Yeah, right, but, but yeah, but yeah. It's a great band. Man and Mac is incredible.

Speaker 1: 1:06:31

I did not realize all of Mac's history when I started, you know, getting to know him over the last few years and and all the people that he's played with and you know they're starting to look at all that. And I talked to Mac at the awards. I said, you know, yeah, and he wants to be on the show. I got a schedule to time to get him on here because I can't. Imagine what the stories that this man can tell.

Speaker 2: 1:06:53

He's got some great stories, you know, and he lived in LA for a little while, yeah, yeah. So so we've got some Things that we know from LA together. You know, that's funny I mean we weren't there at the same time but he knows a lot of places that were still there when I was there, stuff and we talked about that. So, yeah, he's done some great stuff, man. He's a great guy, man it just turned 81 man and he's great on stage. You know, he gets around as good as anybody.

Speaker 1: 1:07:22

And still wants to play, you know yeah I, we've been so busy man.

Speaker 2: 1:07:26

It's incredible. Everybody can't. It's the best gig there is.

Speaker 1: 1:07:29

Yeah, well, since we do have a storm coming in the area, let's go ahead and try to wrap this up with a couple of questions that I always want to ask everybody. When you get in the car and you're driving somewhere, what are you listening to? I?

Speaker 2: 1:07:43

Listen to country radio. Man, I do. That's what I listen to. Sometimes I'll take mixes from my studio. Sure, I'll make a CD and play it in the car.

Speaker 1: 1:07:54

You know, I still have a CD player, like a feed even when you, when you're streaming television or you're watching TV, what do you like to watch?

Speaker 2: 1:08:05

You know I watch a lot of movies. I don't. I don't like really a lot of TV shows. Yeah, I like movies. I love my Amazon. Prime is Amazon and Netflix. Yeah, so you know I do that. I like the news man, I do. I like to watch the news and I like local news. Yeah, I like to watch the news every day at six o'clock or whatever.

Speaker 1: 1:08:28

Yeah, I like. I like to know what's going on in town. Yeah yeah, last question if you, if you had not been a musician, any fathom of an idea of what you would have been, what you I would have been yeah, yeah, probably like a graphic artist or something, because that was an art.

Speaker 2: 1:08:47

I was an art minor in school, so so I know a little bit about art and design and you know I like that. I like art also very much, so maybe you know maybe something in art.

Speaker 1: 1:09:06

You know, I really thought you were a cool guy before, but I really like you a whole lot more now.

Speaker 2: 1:09:10

That's what I do for a living. Thanks, man, I told you earlier, I know just enough to be dangerous with all this Website design stuff. And man, I've got a very good friend of mine that designed my advanced funk studies covered a yellow book. Yeah, a lot of people call it, call it the yellow book. She's a great graphic artist, heather Dickley, in In Dallas, and she does everything for the city and stuff. Yeah, she makes all the billboards and she's got a huge company now. But at the time she was married to a friend of mine and she we designed this cover, man, and it's become like a life of its own. It's the yellow book. Everybody knows and so that's. But I tell her, I'll call her and ask her once in a while some question about Photoshop. She'll start laughing, you know, like she says don't, don't even go there.

Speaker 2: 1:09:59

Yeah, you know well, now I know, Just enough to be dangerous, you know okay, well, okay, I lied.

Speaker 1: 1:10:05

last question Um, okay, okay, what's it? What's in your future, next two years, down the road, what's what's gonna be happening with you?

Speaker 2: 1:10:13

well, more with Matt and I and I'm starting to, you know people asking about clinics and stuff again. I used to do a lot of clinics before Covid and stuff and master classes and stuff, so that's coming back a little bit. So I want to get a little more active with that, you know, and Working here in the studio, I'm working with some producers in Italy and Germany and do a lot of tracks for those guys and you know, just make more music, play more drums.

Speaker 1: 1:10:41

Well, one of the lines I'm gonna use when promoting is it's that you, you wrote the book on drumming and in fact you wrote two books on drumming. Plus you got DVDs all about the groove. That's a DVD set, is that right?

Speaker 2: 1:10:54

It's funny you can get actually the 25th anniversary. The book is the advanced home studies is 43 years old, wow, and for the 25th anniversary I put both of the videos, the advanced home studies and contemporary drum set techniques, together With great interviews with Louis Belson and Ed Shaughnessy and some of the last things they did on camera. Really, it's really great. People should watch those just to see those guys and the all about the groove is something I did with drum channel.

Speaker 2: 1:11:24

He got you and that's. That's more of just my kind of philosophy and concepts of linear drumming. So it's totally different than Both books, but it's got a lot of my ideas. You know, kind of any. So so there's a, there's a 25th anniversary anniversary of the books, which has both DVDs of the books on there, and it's only about the books, with the new stuff, new footage with head and Louis, and then the, the DVD, the Three DVD set, all about the groove, and it also has 20 play along tracks on it. Oh, but I play the tracks with a band in the video and then you can play. I downloaded tracks without drums, oh, okay, well, so, so, yeah, so it's a. It's a great package.

Speaker 1: 1:12:15

And all that's available at Rick Latham calm correct.

Speaker 2: 1:12:18

Rick Latham, calm and you can. There's links to it. Drum channel actually has that, but Alfred has the two books.

Speaker 1: 1:12:27

Rick, thanks again.

Speaker 2: 1:12:28

Oh, thank you, man. I really appreciate it. Really appreciate it, chris, and you know, let's, let's try to hook up sometime and I'm sure I'll see you upstate again sometime soon.

Speaker 1: 1:12:41

Backstage with Chris Lee is a production of MB media, copyright 2023. Be sure to like, follow and share our posts on social media. You can download backstage with Chris Lee wherever you get your podcasts and, of course, you can find us at backstage with Chris Lee com.