134: Baby Gadgets, Gimmicks and Red Flags

This week on Baby Tribe, Afif and Anne take a closer look at the baby products being marketed to exhausted parents, from sleep pods, reflux pillows and weighted sleep suits to formula prep machines, nasal aspirators, rectal wind devices, baby monitors, walkers and bouncers. The episode is not about shaming parents for buying products that promise help. It is about asking better questions before clicking “add to cart”. Does the product support safety, or does it introduce risk? Is it solving a real problem, or selling reassurance to tired parents? And does it follow the basic principles of safe sleep, safe feeding, safe movement and sensible monitoring? With practical advice, plenty of honesty, and a healthy suspicion of pastel-coloured nonsense, this episode gives parents a simple framework for deciding what is useful, what is unnecessary, and what should probably stay out of the cot, the bottle, the buggy, or the baby’s holes. https://www2.hse.ie/babies-children/first-aid/choking-in-babies/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

This show is part of the Head Stuff Podcast Network.

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Welcome to the Baby Tribe. I'm your host, Afi Felke Fash, Neonatologist, Pediatrician, and Lactation Consultant, and my co-host is Anne Deharty, obstetric anesthesiologist. Every generation thinks the previous generation was reckless. Our parents put us to sleep surrounded by blankets, teddies, and enough padding to survive a motorway pile-up. And speaking of motorway, do you remember how we used to all be shoved in the back of the car?

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Oh, I have so many stories about that. Like 10 kids in a Datson.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

10 kids in a Datson. Meanwhile, today's parents are being sold reflux cradles, robotic arm padding machines, oxygen monitoring socks, anti-choking vacuum cleaners, and rectal wind tubes. At this point, having a baby feels less like parenting and more like assembling a Formula One car. So this week we're asking which baby products are genuinely useful, which are harmless but unnecessary, and which are absolute nonsense. And before anyone panics, this is not about shaming parents. Parents are exhausted, targeted, and sold reassurance. So we're here to ask better questions before clicking at Descartes. Anne, welcome to the baby tribe.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Thank you, Afif, for welcoming me to the baby tribe.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

I have an announcement to make before we get into today's topic.

SPEAKER_04 1:27

I I get hesitant, I get worried when he starts doing this going.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

This is our last episode for a while.

SPEAKER_04 1:32

Are you serious?

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Yeah, we're going on a break.

SPEAKER_04 1:35

As in me and you or the baby tribe, or uh he may be actually breaking up with me on social media now at this stage, are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Um no, um, I don't think that is um wise for tax purposes.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

So I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Not gonna not oh my god, not gonna do that. But no, we're taking a break for a couple of weeks because there's a lot of things happening in the background, and I hate to be that kind of person on social media and podcasts to say, oh, there's something exciting happening, but I cannot tell you. But I genuinely can't say anything until everything is confirmed. So yeah, we're taking a break for a couple of weeks. So guys, um I love it.

SPEAKER_04 2:10

This is actually there's so much of this is news to me. If anybody listened to Mark Megan pranking me, you can see that I actually deal with so little to do with the bot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

You keep telling me that you want to be on a need-to-know basis, and I guess you clearly don't need to know. Yeah, you don't need to know until now. So, guys, yes.

SPEAKER_04 2:28

But so we're not hanging out down the end of the garden for a while, is what you're telling me.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Well, we can for other reasons, you know. You can we can watch movies, we can play video games, you can help me.

SPEAKER_04 2:38

Um playing video games, no, not helping you. Okay, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

But anyway, so yeah, guys, um, and please, there's a huge back catalogue of really cool episodes that you can go back and listen to if you haven't. And um please remember to rate us, follow us, and give us a review so we stay in the charts during our very short hiatus.

SPEAKER_04 2:59

And they can always find you on your Instagram page anyway. Yes, you can always find me on Instagram, and occasionally you can find me on his Instagram page. Now I'm back on Instagram, as in like trolling in the background.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

But you're a lurker.

SPEAKER_04 3:10

I'm a lurker, I'm back lurking, like I had actually deleted the app for the last few weeks, but I'm back lurking again. So what I've noticed is that when I FIF knows that I've deleted the app on Instagram, I have a feeling his content changes a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

I go a bit more spicy, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:27

Yeah, you do, don't you? And then I come back and I'm like, Did you put this up?

SPEAKER_01 3:30

And I was like, oops, um, sorry, didn't mean to. Yeah, yeah. Okay, bye. Anyway, today's episode is really important because there's a lot of shite out there that is marketed at vulnerable parents with young babies.

SPEAKER_04 3:44

Oh my god, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

And um I'm gonna divide this episode into five different sections.

SPEAKER_04 3:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Okay, the first a very organized. I know, I know. First section is sleep support products. All right, there's a lot of talk about that in the media at the moment.

SPEAKER_04 3:58

We did that episode.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Yeah, section two is formula prep aids, heating, cooling aids, and sterilizing gadgets.

SPEAKER_04 4:05

Okay, fair.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Okay, a lot of parents are very interested in that. Section three, my favorite section, things that go in babies' holes.

SPEAKER_04 4:13

Oh my god. That sounds disgusting.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Well, exactly. I wish I didn't have to do this section, but it's a very important section.

unknown 4:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 4:22

Nothing should really be going in your child's holes apart from like a boob or a bottle in their mouth.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Pretty much. Um, section four, baby monitoring things, thermometers and um other gadgets that monitor heart rate and oxygen levels.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Okay, and finally, section five, bouncers, walkers, seating supports.

SPEAKER_04 4:41

Okay, that's very organized.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Isn't it very organized? Yeah, yeah. So we'll try and get through as many of those things as we can um very quickly, but let's go back to section one sleep support products. So there's a lot of stuff out there.

SPEAKER_04 4:58

Yeah, I know. Well, there's nothing like sleep deprivation to me at like at 3 a.m. when you're listening to your baby cry again, and you're just absolutely absolutely on your last nerve. Lock.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

Yeah, we were there, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:11

It's awful.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Our babies were awful sleepers. In fact, I always slag Anne. Her job is literally putting people to sleep. Yeah, yet she couldn't put our own children to sleep.

SPEAKER_04 5:20

Well, no, because the medical council come after me if I and as will the Guardi actually come after me if I started that shit with my kids. Go on.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

I know, yeah. But um, I'd be lying if I say the thought didn't cross my mind. I was like, Anne, could you bring some gas home just for one night, please? Just for one night. But you actually hit the nail on the head. I think this is one of the biggest um areas where marketing is really effective because you are a new parent with a baby that seemingly doesn't sleep as expected. You're tired, you're vulnerable, and then there are all these products that promise the sun, moon, and stars.

SPEAKER_04 5:59

Okay, so we we fell prey to lots of this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

We did. And look, we're not gonna do another sleep episode because we've chatted about sleep a lot uh in the last little while. So go back and listen to them. But just to remind people that the principles of safe sleep, and the reason I'm going through those principles is because I always get um questions on my Instagram page saying, is this product okay? Is that product okay? There's so many of them, and we'll try and go through some of them. But if you adhere to the principles and know what the principles are, and then you'll be able to tell whether any of these products deviate away from them.

SPEAKER_04 6:36

Yeah, fair.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

And if they do, run away. Run away. Okay, so the principles are a baby sleep space should be boring. Firm flat mattress, yeah, fitted sheet, baby on their back, no pillows, no nests, no wedges, no loose blankets, no padded sides, no soft toys, no positioners. Yeah, anything outside of this is unsafe.

SPEAKER_03 7:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Okay. So the issue with many baby sleep products is that it's not that they look obviously dangerous, they actually look cozy, loving, and le loving and loving.

SPEAKER_04 7:10

Well, they're lovely and soft and stuff, but that's not the issue.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Our listeners, when I asked in on my Instagram page what they wanted me to talk about in terms of sleep, you got things like baby loungers, sleep pods, nest pods, um, cocoons, um, something called perflow, which I had to look into, Nigel sleep carriers, peachous, dream cradle, reflux pillows, tilted reflux pillows, weighted sleep suits, swaddles, snooze, sleep sacks. So, as you can see, like it's just so many different things.

SPEAKER_04 7:38

The sleep sacks though that they wear, are they okay?

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Yeah, we'll go through that. Okay. Okay. So, why are specific products problematic? I get asked a lot about baby langers, nests, and sleep pods. So the concern with those is that many of these products have soft padded sides, yeah, and a cushioned base. So if a baby turns their head into the side, rolls, wriggles, or slumps, there's a potential risk of airway obstruction.

SPEAKER_03 8:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Now here's the thing about baby's airways. A baby's airway is unfortunately easy to obstruct if the baby deviates from a neutral position. Okay. And the reason for that is pure physiology. They've massive heads in relation to their bodies, especially if they're Irish, by the way.

SPEAKER_04 8:20

Yeah, yeah. No, but they do like they have these huge these huge heads and these tiny little bodies.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

I mean, imagine as an adult if the top of your hands didn't go beyond your heads.

SPEAKER_04 8:30

I know, it's so cute. It's one of the things that we find so adorable.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

Like, but then it just it just emphasizes how big the head is.

SPEAKER_04 8:37

Like their little muscles are very weak.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 8:39

Um, and they were not able to do much other than turn their head from side to side. And sometimes even that can be a challenge for them, depending.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Even that can be a challenge. So a newborn has very weak neck muscles in relation to their head. So that's why you always have to support the head. And unless the head is in a neutral position and not flexed forward, right? Yeah. That the chin is reaching the chest or flexed backwards, that they're almost kind of looking up into the sky, these movements in their extremes can obstruct their very thin and narrow airway, actually, very quickly.

SPEAKER_04 9:13

So if you've got a baby with their head turned to the side, yes, and then something little soft beside them, that means that they can't move their chin up to open their airway.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:22

They get they run into problems.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Yes, and if the positioning becomes as such that they're overextending, that their head is almost flung back, yeah. That actually is another issue. The other problem with having soft things around the baby's face is because they can very quickly develop a pocket of carbon dioxide that doesn't dissipate as easily, or if there's a blanket around their face, then they're breathing that air in and out. In time, the level of carbon dioxide in that pocket of air can go higher and higher and higher. As adults, we can move our head to the side.

SPEAKER_04 9:58

Without even thinking about it.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Without even thinking about it, if that is the case. Yeah. Babies do not have the ability to do that.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

To do that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

And that's why we're always very careful about warning about anything that might create that. People ask then, um, are these things fine? People always ask me then, are these things okay when I am supervising the baby or when the baby's awake, but they're just kind of resting in those in those loungers? And by and large, depending on the product instructions, that is fine. But you really have to be super vigilant that you are watching the baby, that the baby isn't you know falling asleep and staying asleep in those um uh in those different products, and that's why the concern rise is that you know supervised lounging is not the same as safe sleep, yeah. So you have to be mindful of that. Um, baby nests are the same thing, so the soft raised edges around the baby, especially if it comes in close contact with the baby's face, is um a cause for concern because of the reasons we've described. Okay. So if a product creates a soft little moat around the baby, I'm immediately asking questions and saying no. And you see those little cocoon things that seem really nice and cozy.

SPEAKER_03 11:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

And again, people might ask, Well, I had my baby in this in the NICU and they were cocooned with a blanket. Sometimes we put a blanket literally around the baby's head, yeah. Uh, to cocoon the baby in place. This baby has a nurse watching the baby all the time.

SPEAKER_04 11:27

Yeah, who's trained on all kinds of interventions and sports.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

A nurse that has ensured that their head is in a neutral position. They often have breathing support. So they may be intubated, actually have a tube going down, and the cocooning is to make sure that the baby's head doesn't move to move the tube. Doesn't move to move the tube. They may be on a machine called CPAP, which blows kind of pressure into the baby's lungs, and the cocooning is needed to ensure that that is done adequately. They have, you know, heart rate monitoring the whole time, oxygen level monitoring the whole time. And they do dip their oxygen and their heart rate if they move around. So this is a medical indication. It is not something that you can transfer to the house.

SPEAKER_04 12:06

Nope. That's a very clear, clear statement.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

Yeah. So then you have things like sleep carriers. So the concern is the claim or the implication that a baby can sleep safely in something that is not a standard cot or crib. Um, anything with handles, sides, padding, or portability needs careful scrutiny. The questions to ask, and I know I keep harping on about this, but it's really important. Is the mattress firm and flat? Are the sides breathable and safe? Is it approved for unsupervised overnight sleep?

SPEAKER_03 12:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Is the baby visible at all times? Could it be placed somewhere unsafe, like a sofa, a bed, or a soft surface? These are my worries. These are my worries about those baby carriers. Okay. And then there are all these um reflux colic sleep cradles that are almost like the tilted ones. The tilted ones. You know, the way when you go for a massage, right? And you're flat and they're massaging your back, and then they ask you to turn around and you know, put the towel up and ask you, please, sir, turn around. And then when you turn around, they will lift your like legs, legs a little bit, legs a little bit, and lift your back a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 13:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

That's what they look like, basically. So they're a spa for babies.

SPEAKER_05 13:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

And my problem with them is there's no proof that these things help reflux gas colic or support longer sleep. And the potential issue with those, again, they do position the baby, they're inclined, um, they do have padded sides, and they are marketed around sleep, and the baby can sleep in them, but again, the baby can slip down and can obstruct their airway in ways that I've described just before. Yeah. Okay. And then you have the reflux pillows, the tilted reflux pillows, same issue. You know, you have your normal cot, but you put in a reflux pillow that tilts the baby up slightly.

SPEAKER_04 13:54

I get I get asked a lot about weighted sleepsuits that are meant to kind of keep the baby because it well, the idea being that the weighting kind of makes them feel like somebody's got a hand on them or yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

So the added weight on the baby's chest or body again is a big no-no because the baby actually does need to have the freedom to move around as much as they can, yeah. As much as they can. Um, you know, their arms and legs, I mean.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

Yes, and they need to be able to wriggle.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Yes, and they could potentially restrict breathing in some small babies. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 14:24

I used to always wonder about, like, you know, those sleepsuits where they've got their arms wrapped really tightly in.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, and we'll talk about swaddling in a minute.

SPEAKER_04 14:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

Um, but these things can actually risk compromising arousal and may increase the risk of overheating in babies.

SPEAKER_04 14:42

So when you say compromising arousal, you're talking about a baby who's not able to wake themselves at a point where they're at risk.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Yeah, because they're yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:52

And you have to remember how does that compromise around like how do they compromise arousal?

SPEAKER_01 14:56

So when you have a weight down on the baby like that, it may interfere with their normal physiological mechanisms that allow the baby to wake up very quickly. You have to remember, and we spoke about this in our sleep episode recently, the baby's physiology is designed for light short bursts of sleep. Okay, it's a survival mechanism. Babies need to sleep in short bursts in order for them to be able to do that. So you don't want to dampen that down. Exactly. Okay. And that's the potential concern with the weighted sleep suits. Swaddling. Swaddling is fine for babies, but there are, I guess, things that you need to be mindful of. So the things are you don't want to be too tight around the hips. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Too many layers cause overheating.

SPEAKER_03 15:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

And once a baby shows signs that they are beginning to roll, you need to stop swaddling.

SPEAKER_03 15:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

So that's around two, three months of age, sometimes a little bit longer. And what because what you don't want is for a baby to wedge their body across and roll onto their face.

SPEAKER_04 15:58

And then they can't get back.

SPEAKER_01 15:59

And then they can't get back.

SPEAKER_04 16:00

And they do like to be able to roll over is one thing. To be able to roll back is actually a different thing.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Yes, so swaddling is not bad, but bad swaddling is bad.

SPEAKER_04 16:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Yeah. And and use doing it for too long is not um recommended for those reasons.

SPEAKER_03 16:15

Fair.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Sleep sacks. These are generally more compatible with safe sleep principles when they are correctly sized and used appropriately.

SPEAKER_04 16:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

So the problem with them is that they could be the wrong size and they can ride up on the baby's face.

SPEAKER_04 16:26

And when you say sleep sack, you're talking about like it's like a little pair of dungrees, but it's a blanket at the bottom. Yes. And not the ones with the arm restrictive bits. No, the arms have to be out. Yeah. Yeah. So it it's that's it's the ones without that wrapping component.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Yes. Yeah. So again, you can't you not you can't have it too high a togg because babies can overheat.

SPEAKER_03 16:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

The pore fit around the neck and arms can be an issue as well.

SPEAKER_03 16:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:51

And um, if they're not age appropriate. So a sleep sack can be useful, but it has to fit the baby. You have to make sure the arms are free. And then finally, in the sleep section, we have these snoo smart bassinets. Have you heard of these, Anne?

SPEAKER_04 17:06

No, it sounds yeah, no, I haven't. So these are ones sounds complicated and technical.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

So they they literally have velcro covers that attach on top of each other over the baby, and they basically anchor the baby into the cot.

SPEAKER_03 17:20

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

And some of them swing as well from side to side. So it's like they're going to designs this stuff. It's like they're going on Thunderland. So although some parents find it help with settling, the problem is the restraint and the positioning. What happy what happens when the baby starts rolling? And the parents may over-rely on this as a different way.

SPEAKER_04 17:40

It's a restraint bit. I think that's for the last few bits, that's the common theme. Like, yeah, you can't weigh your baby down, you can't tie them down. Yeah. It's not a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

And they cost a lot of money. Like hundreds and hundreds of euros.

SPEAKER_04 17:55

Well, again, people are just so desperate. Like for sleep, it's like it's a form of torture, yeah, sleep deprivation.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

And look, I will put my hand up and I will say, had these things been at the forefront, we would have pretty much considered trying all of these things.

SPEAKER_04 18:11

Maybe considered it.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Considered, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 18:14

Like to be honest, like it's it's the low-tech, and as we talked about in the sleep episode, it it's just a case of of surviving it until everybody settles down and finds their rhythm, like and your baby's um sleep pattern matures over time. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:35

And now on to section number two.

SPEAKER_04 18:37

Oh god. No. Not yet. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

The holes bit is section number three. Section number two is formula prep.

SPEAKER_04 18:45

Okay. This one I can do.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Okay, back to principles.

SPEAKER_04 18:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Okay, this is very simple, guys. Formula powder is not sterile.

SPEAKER_04 18:54

No.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

The water that we use in taps is potentially not sterile.

SPEAKER_04 18:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

Okay. So in order to mix formula powder with water, you have to do two things. You have to ensure the sterility of the water, and then you have to ensure the potential sterility of the formula. So how do we achieve that? You boil the tap water to a hundred degrees.

SPEAKER_04 19:18

Yes, but then the important bit.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

Wait, you boil the water to a hundred degrees and that sterilizes the water.

SPEAKER_04 19:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Okay. But then you have to wait for the water to go down to around 70 degrees centigrade. And that is the temperature at which you mix the formula. Yes. The reason for that is the 70 degrees is the sweet spot that will potentially kill any bacteria that is present in the formula while maintaining the formula's nutritional integrity.

SPEAKER_03 19:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

So if you boil the water to 100 and then mix it with the formula straight away, that could impact the nutritional integrity of the formula.

SPEAKER_04 19:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

If you wait for the water to cool down completely below 70 degrees and then mix with the formula, then you're not potentially sterilizing the formula.

SPEAKER_04 20:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Okay. Those are the principles.

SPEAKER_04 20:11

Just like to say, yeah. I did it wrong at times.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Oh, I know. We did. Yeah, we did. So again, this is not to blame.

SPEAKER_04 20:18

No, no, no, no. We did it wrong. Now both our children are thankfully alive and thriving. Thank God.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 20:23

But yeah, we I did it wrong.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

So anything that deviates from that, you're potentially not adhering to the safety standards.

SPEAKER_04 20:30

I'm gonna start being devil's advocate here. Yeah. Because like a lot of things with bottle feeding is pre-prep for convenience because it can become quite involved and you've got a child screaming at you. So in practice, what I would have done a long time ago is have the water, have the bottles sterilized, have the boiling water in them, seal them, let them cool, um, and then mixed the formula powder with the cooled boiled water in the sterile bottle and then warmed it. Yeah, so that's which doesn't sterilize the formula.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

That doesn't fulfill step number two. Yeah. Okay. What you can do is that you can batch prepare.

SPEAKER_04 21:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

So you can prepare bottles, um, six or seven or eight bottles. So what you can do is you can boil to a hundred, wait for the water to come down to seventy, which is in a standard kettle, you wait for half an hour.

SPEAKER_04 21:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

And then you can make eight bottles with that.

SPEAKER_04 21:27

Grand. And mix the milk in when it's at the 70 degrees, and then let them cool, and then that can be reheated when you need it.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

That goes in the back of the fridge and they're good for 24 hours.

SPEAKER_04 21:37

24 hours. And then when you take them out from the fridge, you can warm them.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

You're warming them up for comfort, not for anything else. Not for anything else. Okay. You're only warming them up again for comfort.

SPEAKER_04 21:48

So the baby doesn't shatter you.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Yes. Because they won't drink cold milk.

SPEAKER_04 21:52

Well, sometimes they will. It depends on the baby.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

If they do, fine. It doesn't matter. You're warming it up at that stage, not to sterilize it. Yeah. Because some people think the Yeah. So you can batch prepare.

SPEAKER_04 22:03

Yeah. So I was batch preparing wrong like the wrong way.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Yes. Because you're a bad mother. We all established that.

SPEAKER_04 22:11

I know. Sure. Look, the whole pot is just confessing I'm a bad mother. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Yeah. So these are the main principles. And of course, the other main principle is you must follow the formula's instructions on the correct ratios. It is usually one scoop that you get with 30 mils of water or one fluid ounce. Okay, that can sometimes change a little bit. Yeah. But that is generally that's the important concentration bit. You can never make the formula too dilute or too concentrated.

SPEAKER_04 22:38

Because it's just not appropriate.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Okay. So why then are these products an issue? Well, these products are an issue for various reasons. Formula prep machines, you have rapid cool machines, you have hot shot methods, you have bottle warmers, bottle washers, UV sterilizers, and self-sterilizing bottles. So we're going to go through all of that very quickly. Okay?

SPEAKER_04 23:00

Yeah. I'm just really glad that I don't I'm not in this world right now. Yeah. That's it's very complicated.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

So my issue with formula prep machines are several. Okay. So formula prep machines in their various forms. I'm not going to go through them all, but I would never use any formula prep machine.

SPEAKER_03 23:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

The reason for that is, and there have been studies done on this. They generally do not heat the water to 100 degrees.

SPEAKER_03 23:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Okay. And then they do not cool the water down to the sweet spot 70 degrees in order to mix with milk.

SPEAKER_03 23:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Then they may not mix the formula powder and the water in the correct proportions.

SPEAKER_03 23:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

So then there are things that are called the hot shot methods. So this is where there's a hot burst of water that is shoved into the formula powder in order to sterilize it. And there is no indication that that actually cleans or sterilizes the formula because it doesn't mix adequately.

SPEAKER_04 23:59

I was about to say you don't know what temperature that um hot it's that hot shot is is reaching across the formula.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Yes. And then, you know, if they also prepare powder, the things you have to ask, is the machine dispensing the correct amount of powder every time? A lot of studies show no. Is the water volume accurate? A lot of studies actually show no. Um is the final concentration correct? You can't 100% say that. Is it clean thoroughly and frequently? Can powder build up inside? Does the water get hot enough at the right point? And you know, I did an exercise not so long ago for research that I'm doing. And I contacted all of those manufacturers asking for those that information. Not one of them got back to me.

SPEAKER_03 24:41

No way.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

No.

SPEAKER_03 24:42

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 24:43

And you'd think that would be an important public safety thing.

SPEAKER_03 24:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

So a formula machine is not a coffee machine. Because when your coffee machine messes up, the worst thing you'll get is a weak cappuccino.

SPEAKER_04 24:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

And that's not the end of the world. Although it does make me very grumpy, but you know.

SPEAKER_04 24:57

He needs good coffee, not bad coffee, but his good coffee is not my good coffee.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Yeah, but an incorrect formula concentration can be a potentially disaster.

SPEAKER_04 25:05

Yeah. I used to wonder when I was when I had very little kids, because like, you know, once again they're that little bit older and they start grabbing stuff and putting it in their mouth. None of that is sterile either.

SPEAKER_05 25:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:17

But the difference is that this is formula prep that has been sitting in a non-sterile container open for a period of time. So the difference is it's like opening a pack of ham for an older person and then not refrigerating it and not looking after it, and then it grows bacteria because it's food. So it's different to your child when they're two months old or three months old grabbing a non-sterile toy and shoving it in their mouth. That's the difference. Yes. That sterile toy isn't food, it doesn't go into their GI tract and get absorbed.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

That's a great explanation. Okay, onto the rapid cool things. So the rapid cool um paraphernalia are those that report to cool the formula down very quickly so that you can feed it to the baby and not wait for it to go from 70 degrees down to that time, yeah. That time, yeah. And in principle, they're not necessarily a bad thing. But the issue with them is that the sequence of boil the water to 100, wait for it to go down to 70, and then mix the formula can get lost. What some people do is boil the water to 100, mix the formula there, and then wait for it to rapidly cool. Yes, it will be sterile, but it can potentially nutritional component. Yes, potentially. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 26:42

What diminishes it potentially, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Yeah, now there are some ones, I believe, that will tell you when it's at 70, and then you mix, and then it will rapidly cool. They're potentially okay, but my concern with them is that parents may misunderstand the sequence, not that parents are stupid, but it can be very confusing.

SPEAKER_05 26:59

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Sure, it's doing it wrong for ages. Yeah, cleaning the device also matters, and they may you may end up doing shortcuts as you did when we were when my kids were young.

SPEAKER_04 27:11

Um can I just point out where was a fief in all of this making the bottles? Typical man, typical man, it's like woman, you did it wrong. Well, man, you weren't even there.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Where was I?

SPEAKER_04 27:22

Yeah, where were you?

SPEAKER_01 27:23

I was working.

SPEAKER_04 27:24

Oh, you were at your nice job where people handed you cups of coffee, you had time to have a conversation. Yeah. Where where everything you ate and drank was either hot or cold at the right temperature, not at home where like having a hot cup of tea was like a luxury.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

I knew I knew I was gonna get in trouble for doing this safety thing. See, guys, I do this for you.

SPEAKER_04 27:43

No, it's your tone. It's the tone, it's the impl it's like, yeah, because you were doing it wrong. Screw you.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

Anyway, so cooling is not the dangerous bit with these, it's the skipping the safe prep step that is the problem. And then people asking about the bottle warmers, and they're not a major issue. So if you've done all the steps and you have the bottle in the fridge, the bottle warmer after that is not for cleanliness or sterility, therefore, just comfort. Okay, just make sure that you don't put a bottle in the microwave.

SPEAKER_04 28:13

No, because then it'll get patchy, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

And also, is there a nutritional it can it can affect the nutritional integrity of the milk as well? Um, before we move on to your favorite section, I just want to bring it. It's not my favorite.

SPEAKER_04 28:27

I'm just thinking, like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

I just want to quickly talk about the bottle washers.

SPEAKER_04 28:32

Go on.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

So um the bottle washers, um, they're potentially useful, but just make sure that no residue milk is left behind. Okay. Um, so you have the steam sterilizers, which I which I think are fine, provided that that them that the bottles are clean initially.

SPEAKER_04 28:49

So that there isn't you have to get rid of all the milk.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

You have to get rid of all the milk.

SPEAKER_04 28:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

And you make sure that the milk is all gone before you sterilize them, and that is fine. A lot of people are now using ultraviolet sterilizers. So they clean the bottles and they use ultraviolet light to sterilize. My problem with that is UV only works where the light reaches.

SPEAKER_04 29:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

So if you have shadows, overcrowding, milk residue, that can give you false reassurance and they will not sterilize 100%. And that's why I don't like using them. Yeah, it sounds like you have to pack that like you'd pack a dishwasher for but even then I find it really hard to accept that the ultraviolet light will reach all the areas that it needs to reach. Whereas with steam, it'll go everywhere.

SPEAKER_04 29:37

Yeah, once it's hot, it's hot, like yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

And then there's these new um self-sterilizing bottles. And again, they can be useful when used exactly as instructed. I believe you fill water in them and then put them in the microwave, and then they will themselves clean.

SPEAKER_04 29:53

Gotcha, gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

Yeah, but you need to make sure that you have the correct water volume, correct microwave time, make sure you don't get burns from steam, and like they need to be cleaned as well before sterilizing.

SPEAKER_05 30:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

Now on to section number three. Oh god. Things that go into baby holes. This is my god.

SPEAKER_04 30:21

Like, this is gonna boggle my mind.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

Like can I give you the main principle?

SPEAKER_04 30:26

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:27

Yeah. The more invasive a product is, the higher the bar should be.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

So babies are noisy, windy, snotty, dribbly, and not every grunt sniffle or fart requires equipment.

SPEAKER_04 30:40

Generally, they are self-farting.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 30:44

Like, that's a whole other issue.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

No, imagine the scenario in an adult. Oh, and I like I feel very bloated, and you're like, Bend a big one.

SPEAKER_04 30:52

Let me just go and get this tube.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

I have a tube that I'm gonna shove up your hole. And that will be a little bit more than a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 30:57

But to be honest, by the time the gas gets to your rectum, it should be self-eliminating.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

Yes, yes. So one of the biggest I love this pod.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

I never thought I'd be talking about baby's rectums. Okay, go on.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

So, and I don't mind mentioning these products by name because they're horrendous. The windy one is just avoid like a plague. Yeah. So these are little plastic tubes, they're not so little, that are inserted into the baby's rectum to help release wind. And they're advertised as helpful for colic. And they are not okay.

SPEAKER_04 31:30

So please do not insert anything into your baby's rectum.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Yeah, I can't believe we have to say that. But and you know what? A lot of parents buy them because they're advertised as a solution for colic. And I don't blame the parents. You're not a bad person for buying them, you're not a bad person for using them. But if you are using them, I would recommend that you stop using them.

SPEAKER_04 31:50

Yeah. So it reminds me of the joke rectum. I nearly killed them. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 31:58

Hey, I'm the comedian here. You're not allowed to be funny. So, what are the potential issues? Rectal irritation, trauma if inserted incorrectly, parents using them repeatedly for normal baby grunting, and that can create anxiety around normal gestion. I've had actually families come to my clinic whereby they now use it every time the baby grunts, thinking that the baby will not eventually pass wind without them inserting it into their bum. So, and that's why they should never um use them. So, not every fart needs a device.

SPEAKER_04 32:31

Generally, farts don't need a device. Yeah. And like the thing is with baby tummies, right?

SPEAKER_05 32:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:36

And baby digestion is like you know, when you feed them that X amount of ounces of milk, depending on what age they are. Yeah. Right? Their tummy is little, it does expand. They it does have to move through, you know, if they have a bit of dysbiosis or whatever in terms of microbiome and how it's evolving or all of that, like their little tummy will get gassy, but it does expel itself, you know, and they just have to go through that process, and nothing you insert is going to change that.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Yes. So those are the potential issues.

SPEAKER_04 33:11

And their little tummies get big and then you come into them a few hours later and it's completely gone down again.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Yes. Let's talk about the other hole, the nose. Nasal aspirators or nutsuckers.

SPEAKER_04 33:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

These can be useful in moderation, especially before a feed if the baby's very blocked. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:26

But but I suppose it depends uh what the device itself is like.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

There are a lot of variations.

SPEAKER_04 33:33

Because they would like that little bulb, that little nosy, you know, like it's like a little soft bulb that you can just squeeze and then it aspirates because it just creates a little tiny little bit of suction.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Yeah. And we've used that on our kids.

SPEAKER_04 33:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

But the key thing is I always advise the parents to loosen the secretions with saline water. Um to that you can get them in drops or a spray. Okay. Grand.

SPEAKER_04 33:57

So that would just to be clear on that. So a couple of little nose drops or that little nose spray just to loosen it up.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

And that's just saline water, which is salt water. Yeah, and it's sterile. It is sterile.

SPEAKER_04 34:08

It's bought in proper packaging and maintained for the right amount of time.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

Yes, and what they do is that they just loosen up the secretions and the mucus, and oftentimes babies can then handle that on their own without the need for supping. The reason babies can be very mucusy or snotty for an extended period of time over the first few months is because their nasal passages are almost slit-like. So any bit of mucus will block it. Will block it.

SPEAKER_04 34:30

Now they still can't breathe, though.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

They it can still cause an issue, especially when they're feeding. They breathe through their mouth and their nose, but they can breathe through their mouth a lot if their nose is blocked, and that's okay. But when they feed, then they have to breathe through their nose. Yeah. And if their nose is blocked, that's when they run.

SPEAKER_04 34:45

And the very, very little babies mainly breathe through their nose, don't they? When they're tiny, tiny.

SPEAKER_01 34:50

Well, they breathe through both their nose and their mouth. Okay. But when they're feeding, they will breathe through their nose. Exactly. So gentle nasal suction can be useful, but the ones I worry about are now the ones that have active suction in them. Ones that there's a tube where the parents create a suction themselves. They suck with their mouth.

SPEAKER_04 35:08

Oh my god. So that's like because a parent tidal volume can be like 400 mils.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

Yeah. So like Yeah, so you may not regulate the pressure. Exactly. And those devices are designed to catch the snot in a little container so it doesn't come into your mouth. Just if people are wondering.

SPEAKER_03 35:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

Yeah. But I would be very, very careful about these. Yeah. Okay. Next hole, ears.

SPEAKER_04 35:32

Okay. So what are they doing to baby's ears?

SPEAKER_01 35:34

I wouldn't put anything in babies' ears, ear canals. Okay. So a baby's not a mining operation. Please do not use Q-tips to clean baby wax.

SPEAKER_05 35:43

No.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

Let the wax come out, and then you can clean around the outside of the ear.

unknown 35:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

Yes. I've decided to be inventive and include another hole in this conversation, the mouth.

SPEAKER_04 35:56

Well, that's a normal hole.

SPEAKER_01 35:57

It is. They're all normal holes, Ann.

SPEAKER_04 35:59

Yeah, I know. So then why are you being inventive?

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Well, I mean, people wouldn't assume that I was going to add things like gripe water in this conversation.

SPEAKER_04 36:07

Okay. Okay, fine.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

Right. So if, you know, uh gripe water, glycerine, and anticed syrup.

SPEAKER_04 36:15

Aniseed, is it?

SPEAKER_01 36:17

Did I say anticed? Sorry. Aniseed syrup, yes. And um amber beads and amber bracelets are a big choking hazard. I would never use them. These are ones that you know babies can chew on. I would avoid them.

SPEAKER_04 36:29

Well, I think the idea with the amber was though that with the wearing alone of them helps them with teething, which doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

Exactly. So I wouldn't use amber beads or amber bracelets. And then a lot of people ask me about teething gels. But I would use those carefully and age appropriate because they can be overuse. Sometimes the active ingredients change, so you can't have a sweeping statement about teething gels in general. Um, and sometimes parents end up applying too much too often, um, and then they end up over-relying on these medicate medication gels when other simpler techniques um are more effective.

SPEAKER_04 37:06

And don't rub brandy on your baby's gums.

SPEAKER_01 37:09

No, no. Um they did that to Anne, and that's why she actually, I don't even know if my parents did that. We're nearly there.

SPEAKER_04 37:18

It could have happened, who knows?

SPEAKER_01 37:20

Section number four baby monitoring things, thermometers and emergency gadgets.

SPEAKER_04 37:25

Okay, now some of this stuff is necessary, important stuff.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Okay, um, a lot of it isn't. So let's talk about thermometers.

SPEAKER_03 37:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Okay, and I'm I'm mainly talking about newborn babies.

SPEAKER_03 37:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

Okay, small babies. The best thermometer is the digital thermometer that goes under their arms. Under their arms.

SPEAKER_04 37:45

Yeah. And you have to put it right in there and hold their arm down just for a second until it bips.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

You put it right in there without clothes, yes, under the baby's arms, and then you press the baby's arm against their body and wait for it to bip, and that is an accurate measurement of their baby's central temperature.

SPEAKER_04 38:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 38:04

That's the only one you need.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

Don't put it up your baby's bum.

SPEAKER_04 38:07

Oh, Jesus, no. Some people think. Please don't put things in your baby's bums.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

Okay. And there are three or four other types of thermometers that I do not recommend that you use on small babies. The first one in the infrared one on the baby's forehead.

SPEAKER_03 38:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

The reason for that is that the forehead is more affected by the environmental temperature and the moisture in the air. So if your baby's sweaty, if the air is cold, you may miss a true fever.

SPEAKER_03 38:34

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

Right? And on the flip side, if your baby's forehead is hot for because of touch or they were close to your body, it may give you a high reading falsely. So they're not very accurate. The other one that's not good very accurate, and I see a lot of people use is the ear thermometer. So the infrared ear thermometer in small babies is not recommended because the ear canal is S-shaped. So the infrared rays will not actually hit the eardrum unless you yank the ear up quite significantly.

SPEAKER_04 39:09

Even in adults, there's a variation on the technique that you can miss something with.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

And if there's a lot of wax in there, you're not going to get a good reading. So you could miss a real temperature. And then there's this new thing that is a continuous temperature monitor that they stick on the baby, the back of the baby's neck. That gives you minute-by-minute readings in your phone.

SPEAKER_04 39:29

Okay, so skin temperature readings from there are never accurate. They're never accurate.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Very problematic. So you don't need to constantly monitor your baby's temperature. Okay. So it can create a lot of issues. That brings us on to other continuous monitoring. And those are the wearable oxygen devices and the wearable heart rate monitors. So these are devices that monitor your I'd say none of them are medical grade. A lot of them are not.

SPEAKER_04 39:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

So what they do is that they measure your baby's oxygen level and they will alarm if your oxygen, if your baby's oxygen level goes down below a certain level. And they will also monitor your baby's heart rate.

SPEAKER_04 40:08

Like I spend my life monitoring people.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

Right.

SPEAKER_04 40:12

Every number I can find, I'll have I'll throw it up on the monitor. Okay. But the the level of engineering and quality assurance that's required for medical grade monitoring to actually have reliable data is really, really difficult to achieve for a commercial market. So I would assume that that level of investment has not gone into those products. So therefore, they're at best random number generators and at worst creating huge anxiety and overintervention.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

So that's the key thing. Um first of all, studies have not proven that they reduce the risk of SIDS. So if you actually look at the advertising, it's very clever. They never say that they reduce the risk of SIDs because none of the studies have proven that. What they say is help reduce parental anxiety, help you look after your baby. You know, they have all of these emotive words and this sort of language that subconsciously and not so subconsciously may cast doubts in your ability to manage or monitor your baby without them.

SPEAKER_03 41:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Right. Whereas in reality, you don't need them. So what the studies show is that they actually can false alarm all the time, creating a lot of anxiety. They can actually give you false reassurance, they can miss real events.

SPEAKER_03 41:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

And they can misinterpret numbers. And what ends up happening is that you're over-investigating normal physiological variation. And what people don't realize is a lot of babies, when they sleep, will drop their heart rate, will drop their oxygen levels normally. So do humans. So do adults. Babies are not alien. Oh, yeah. Sorry. So so do adults. So do adults. Yeah. And they and the key thing is that they do not prevent SIDS. Now, I'm not talking about specific circumstances whereby your medical team has recommended that you get them.

SPEAKER_04 41:58

So that's a different situation.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

What we are talking about is healthy well babies, and you want extra reassurance, don't get them.

SPEAKER_04 42:06

And like if you're being advised to get one of these, they will give you specific products that they can stand over.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 42:13

And not like the random number generators.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Sometimes they're used for preterm babies, sometimes they're used for babies with fast heart rates and things like that. But again, I wouldn't recommend them for um general use. Yeah. And finally, before we move we move on to section five, is the LIFEVAC or the anti-choking suction devices.

SPEAKER_04 42:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 42:33

So these are devices that are used sometimes medically that provide negative suction around the baby's mouth and nose, and they're designed to try and suck or aspirate.

SPEAKER_04 42:43

Any foreign bodies that might get it.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

So, and I I just want to be careful here because it is a very sensitive topic because choking is terrifying. It's one of the biggest things parents worry about when they're, you know, weaning or in general. Here are the concerns with these devices is that they may over-rely on gadgets instead of learning the proper infant choking first aid.

SPEAKER_03 43:12

Yeah, fair.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

And then if it may delay back blows.

SPEAKER_04 43:17

Oh, like you're talking about the normal, actually proven methods for kind of moving through the choking sequence.

SPEAKER_01 43:25

If you're panicking, looking for it around the house, it may delay somebody actually.

SPEAKER_04 43:28

Turning the baby over and doing the doing the back blows. The back blows.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Or older children, the chest thrusts and calling emergency services.

SPEAKER_04 43:36

Yeah, fair.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

Yeah. And the ads may target weaning anxiety.

SPEAKER_04 43:40

I actually worry about the mechanical effects of it as well.

SPEAKER_01 43:42

If not used correctly. Yeah. Yeah. So and they could create false confidence. So they are not a replacement for proper back blows in spectrum.

SPEAKER_04 43:51

And do they have any place in an algorithm on a choking baby?

SPEAKER_01 43:54

If it doesn't work initially, yes.

SPEAKER_04 43:56

Okay. So there is actually evidence base behind them.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

Yes. Yeah. And sometimes they're used in hospitals as well, you know? And the problem is you need to be well trained on how to use them. It is far easier to be effective with back blows. Yes. Than using this anti-choking device.

SPEAKER_04 44:11

So the There's a specific sequence to move through. And will you put the um the website address in the in the show notes, I will. Please.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

I will. Finally, bouncers, walkers, seating supports.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 44:28

Every time you say those that phrase, I think of a family member whose son used to literally like, oh my god, this kid, he was, I think he he was running before he was one, but he used to literally be able to bounce himself around in one of those little baby bouncers. Like I'm not talking about a walker, I'm not talking about the ones like the little doors where you're upright. Like one of the like semi-reclined little bouncers. He used to bounce so hard he'd actually move around and shit to take him out of it.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Yeah. These kids what is the main principle? The main principle is that babies need safe movement and safe floor time in order to um develop properly.

SPEAKER_04 45:14

So a product to just explore their world and start getting their motor skills going, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:18

Yeah, so I totally understand that any product that is designed to contain a baby is convenient.

SPEAKER_04 45:27

Yes, they will try and get there, get out of it though.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

Yeah, but convenience is not the same as developmental benefits. So I would always ask: Am I gonna supervise the baby? Is the airway clear? Is the baby's posture appropriate? Is it age and weight appropriate? Am I using it for a limited amount of time? Is it actually replacing a lot of a lot of floor time? And are there any risks in terms of falls? My worry about these baby walkers is that if you're on top of the stairs and they tumble down.

SPEAKER_04 45:53

Oh stop.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

That's a disaster.

SPEAKER_04 45:55

That is but like the stair gates and the baby proofing and stuff should be there if your baby is mobile.

SPEAKER_01 46:00

Sometimes, you know, these things you may forget, you may leave a gate open and they may slip against the um bottom beam and then they'll flip down the stairs, and that's a disaster. So the concern with baby walkers is falls, stair injuries, and they can sometimes reach hot drinks or surfaces and topple them on themselves with them.

SPEAKER_04 46:18

Um they need constant supervision, gives them access to hazards, right?

SPEAKER_01 46:23

And they don't actually teach babies how to walk, and they may tighten their Achilles tendon, and they may babies may end up tipping.

SPEAKER_04 46:29

So the Achilles tendon is the one that is just at your heel.

SPEAKER_01 46:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:32

So if you go to point your toe, that's your Achilles tendon pulling on your heel.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

Yes, and the same thing goes to jumperoos. Although they're not the devil, their use should be limited. You don't want to overuse them. They can actually have issues with hip and leg positioning. They actually are more significant in terms of toe standing because the baby is on their tippy toes jumping all the time, and it can lead to reduced floor time. And a lot of parents floor time is better. Oh, my floor time trumps everything.

SPEAKER_04 47:01

But it's frustrating for the kids. But that's it's that frustration that leads them then to get mobile because they want things.

SPEAKER_01 47:07

Yes, and then bouncers are going back to what you said, the babies can fall asleep in them, the airway may be compromised, and sometimes they just bounce themselves around the place. Now we put Faisal in bouncers. We did yes, yeah, lots of pictures of him in a bouncer, just sitting there quietly watching his crazy.

SPEAKER_04 47:25

Yeah, but that's when he thought he was a twin as well, because Annabelle, yes, uh Maggie's little baby doll was always wedged in beside him.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:32

Um, but he was very young then and he wasn't able to even bounce himself. So I think once they start like jigging their legs to the point where they're actually bouncing themselves, it's no longer safe.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

Yeah, absolutely. And then you have the seating supports and the play chairs.

SPEAKER_04 47:49

So some jigging their legs, I sound like my mother.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

What?

SPEAKER_04 47:52

Jigging their legs, that's a real my mother phrase.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

But then the seating supports and play chairs. So some parents use them before the baby has adequate trunk and head control. So, you know, it's better to wait when they are closer to five, six months of age.

SPEAKER_05 48:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

Um, you don't want them having poor posture, you don't want them tipping over, and again, that reduces floor time. Then you have the car seat blankets that a lot of parents are asking me about.

SPEAKER_04 48:18

Car seat blankets.

SPEAKER_01 48:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:19

So oh, those zippy ones.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

Yeah, anything bulky between the baby and the harness can affect the harness fit. So a baby should not be in a jacket in a car seat.

SPEAKER_04 48:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:28

They should not be in a blanket in a car seat.

SPEAKER_04 48:30

No, but you can get the little sleeping bag ones that are designed that they go into the thing and the harness comes through the back of them.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 48:37

And then you can zip that up over the front of the baby. So it's like they're still completely in their harness appropriately.

SPEAKER_01 48:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 48:47

But they still have the option of that little.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

However, you must make their make sure you must make sure they're not loose, they don't cover the baby's face.

SPEAKER_04 48:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

That the baby's not overheating.

SPEAKER_04 48:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

And that it does not change how the harness fits. That's essential.

SPEAKER_04 49:00

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 49:01

So those are the things that I would watch out for.

SPEAKER_04 49:03

So if you can get ones that don't change, because they they you can get ones that are specific to the car seat.

SPEAKER_01 49:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:09

Um, finally, the inflatable neck rings for baths and swimming pools. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 49:17

I didn't know that they existed.

SPEAKER_01 49:19

Oh, yeah. They do. Look them up.

SPEAKER_02 49:21

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 49:22

Again, they look very cute, they're sold everywhere. Sounds terrifying. Yeah, and it's literally a um tube around the baby's neck to keep them afloat.

SPEAKER_04 49:30

And surely the person holding the child should be the person, should be what's keeping the child afloat.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

Oh no, they're left to float on their own. Can you imagine? So the pressure on the neck, the false reassurance, the baby slipping through, the parents stepping away because the product appears supportive, drowning. You should never, ever, ever um leave the baby unattended.

SPEAKER_04 49:49

You just hold your baby in the pool. Thanks, Amelia.

SPEAKER_01 49:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 49:54

Well, that was a terrifying run through.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

And you know, we've just screwed ourselves from any future sponsorship.

SPEAKER_04 50:00

That's okay. We don't want to be sponsored by crazy things.

SPEAKER_01 50:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:03

Oh my god. So sleeping, less is more, as in not the actual sleep, but what's in your baby's cot. Um and then don't put anything in your baby apart from food.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

Or medicine. Or medicine.

SPEAKER_04 50:21

Um, underarm thermometer. That's all you need.

SPEAKER_01 50:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:25

Um, and uh hold your baby in the pool.

SPEAKER_01 50:28

You missed the formula bit.

SPEAKER_04 50:29

Oh, the formula bit, I did it wrong. Don't do what I did.

SPEAKER_01 50:32

Yes, don't do what Anne did. So, I mean, after all of that, the message is so mad because like when I think back, yeah, that's how everyone was doing it. Okay. I have a framework for parents before we finish. Okay, before you buy or use any baby product, ask these eight questions. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 50:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 50:48

Number one, what problem is this claiming to solve?

SPEAKER_03 50:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

Is it actually a problem or is it normal baby behavior? Does it affect breathing, sleep, feeding, movement, or safety?

SPEAKER_03 50:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 51:00

Is it for supervised use only? Or can I leave the baby unattended? The answer should be never yes.

SPEAKER_04 51:05

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 51:06

Could it delay medical advice? Okay. If your baby's reflux-y, for example. Is it age and weight appropriate? Is the marketing making me feel anxious? And that is a key thing. Right?

SPEAKER_03 51:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:18

And then would I still use this if my public health nurse, GP or pediatrician, was standing beside me? If a fief was looking at me, would I buy this product?

SPEAKER_04 51:27

He's very judgmental.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

I'm very judgmental. Um, hi buddy. Did you go for your walk?

SPEAKER_04 51:32

And do you know what else we learned?

SPEAKER_01 51:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:35

You did very little of the the bottle prep when we were when we had young kids.

SPEAKER_01 51:40

Oh god, here she goes again. Here she goes again. So look, guys.

SPEAKER_04 51:45

Um to the detriment of the children, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 51:47

Guys, do you hear buddy? Stop. We're nearly done, buddy. Stop. Don't do that. Okay. I know it's our last episode in a while, but anyway, let's let's let's finish up. So, after all, the message is not never buy anything. It is some baby products are genuinely useful, some make life easier, some are harmless, but some look like they were invented during a very strange meeting between a chiropractor, a tech bro, and somebody who had never met a baby, which is the reality, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_03 52:14

Why did you bring chiropractors into it?

SPEAKER_01 52:17

Because I have an issue with chiropractors and babies.

SPEAKER_03 52:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 52:20

And that's pretty much it. Thank you guys for listening, and we hope to see you back very, very soon.

SPEAKER_04 52:26

I'm dying to hear what the new developments are. I'm sure we'll have a staff meeting any day now, Efifia.

SPEAKER_01 52:32

Follow me on my Instagram page for more. Okay. Bye-bye. You go. Your buddy's saying bye as well.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

This show is part of the Headstuff Podcast Network, a hub for the creative and the curious. Shows are produced in association with Headstuff and the Podcast Studios Dublin. Find out more or become a member at Headstuff Podcasts.com.