112: Emma Kehoe on Navigating Parenthood with Mindful Strategies

Life and mindfulness coach Emma Kehoe graces our latest episode with her unique journey from retail to mindful living, offering insights that could turn the tumultuous parenting experience into one of balance and joy. Emma's expertise shines as she discusses how mindfulness can empower parents to establish healthy boundaries and improve communication within their families. The episode is packed with relatable stories, from handling toddler tantrums with grace to reframing responses in challenging interactions. We explore the importance of patience and presence, offering practical tools for parents to maintain their sanity and humour amidst the demands of raising children. You can reach Emma on: https://empowerwithemma.com/ https://www.instagram.com/emmakehoe/ Sponsored by www.happytummy.ie Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

This show is part of the Head Stuff Podcast Network.

SPEAKER_05 0:06

The Baby Tribe is proudly sponsored by Happytummy.ie, the exclusive distributor of Bayagaya probiotics, providing support for gut and oral health for the whole family. Welcome back to the Baby Tribe Podcast, the show where we explore everything from birth and bonding to surviving toddler with a healthy dose of science, sanity, and sarcasm. My name is Efif, the ontologist dad, an occasional deep breather when the Wi-Fi drops. The Wi-Fi has been actually terrible recently, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_03 0:43

Okay, deep breather when the Wi-Fi drops.

SPEAKER_05 0:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:45

I yeah, I you deep breathe. I just go, oh my god! I lose the plot.

SPEAKER_05 0:50

And with me as always, as you've probably heard, is my wife Anne, the camp structured half of this duo who believes that the correct way. Exactly. You also lose the plot when I load the dishwasher because I apparently throw the plates in like a toddler is doing an abstract piece of art.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

Seriously, it's so bad.

SPEAKER_05 1:07

It doesn't matter. Once they're in there, they just get washed.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

No, that's but they don't, that's the whole point. If you don't stack them properly, it just it cannot find them to wash them.

SPEAKER_05 1:23

So we're delighted to be joined by Emma Kyo, Life and Mindfulness Coach and founder of Empower with Emma. Emma spent nearly 20 years in retail, so she must have started when she was five, before completely transforming her life through mindfulness and self-development. Now she helps others reconnect with themselves, find balance, and live more intentionally. We'll be chatting about her story and how parents, especially those in the thick of sleepless nights, guilt, and general chaos, can use simple mindfulness tools to stay grounded and actually enjoy the early years without losing their minds or their keys. So grab a coffee or something stronger if it's been that kind of night and let's dive in. But before we do, please make sure to follow the Baby Tribe podcast wherever you listen so you never miss an episode. You can also find me on Instagram at Folkafash, and you can find Anne through my Instagram because she doesn't do Instagram.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

I actually just deleted my Instagram app.

SPEAKER_05 2:15

Please leave us a rating or review. It really helps us find more parents to inform. Emma, wonderful to have you on the Baby Tribe.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

Oh Mamas today.

SPEAKER_05 2:28

I have to say, you look much more better in real life than you're looking at.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

That's disgraceful. I think I have to go now. I'm only messing with an inside joke that we started talking about before the podcast. I know.

SPEAKER_02 2:46

I don't have one.

SPEAKER_05 2:47

Do you not?

SPEAKER_02 2:48

No, I'm the old school hand wash. And even when I did have a dishwasher, I'm telling you, I used to nearly pre-wash them and wash them, and then I'm like, what's the point of loading the dishwasher then? Because it's two hours. Me, I'm like, that's an excessive amount of water. I'm just a weirdo like that. I'm like, I could have this done in one basin and rinse them and I'm done. And then I just like to do it as I go, and then the smell of the dishwasher freaks me out. Really?

SPEAKER_03 3:13

Yeah, that horrible smell. Yeah, no, so I suppose I couldn't live without a dishwasher right now. I could. But I think you know, we'll see if the kids are older when they fly the nest. I get that, especially if you have children as well. And you've got to deal with.

SPEAKER_02 3:27

Yeah, and if you're a family and you're working like that's the bane of your life when you're trying to like have food, dinners, yeah, not dishes.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

If I cook, if I cook, there's Oh, here we go. This is valid. If I cook, there is like the pots I'm using. The pots that I may have used are prepped in are washed, dried, and put away while I'm prepping, right? Thief cannot make a salad without pretty much using every pot, basin, bowl, spoon in the house, and then it's just on the counter.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

See, I actually before I eat my dinner, everything is more or less washed, and then I sit down. I'm that person. I'm like, it has to be clean even on the draining board, and then I can relax, have my dinner, so it's already half done. The cleanup is done. You clean as you go, you clean as you go.

SPEAKER_05 4:21

I think it's a bit unfair. I sometimes have to cook three different dinners between the case.

SPEAKER_03 4:24

But that's your oh my god, you really winded me up today.

SPEAKER_05 4:29

Yeah, I sometimes make Buddy his own dinner as well. He does.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

That's okay. He cooks for the dog. Like this is all preference now. Do you know what I mean? Especially like for your son. Your son, your daughter, everyone has their own taste.

SPEAKER_03 4:41

I cook the dinner, right? What's your speciality now? Oh, like it'll be a variety of different things. Like, but if I'm cooking a dinner, that is the dinner, right? And I'll cook something that most people will reasonably like, it won't be everybody's favourite all the time. That's fine, they'll get over it. Feef cooks like dinner for what he might want, and then I may have what he's having, or he might say, Oh, I'll cook something else for Anna, the kids, because they won't like what I'm having, but I really want that. Oh, what about the dog? And then he'll cook something for the dog. Ah.

SPEAKER_05 5:14

And the dog would actually first before he eats his own dinner, he will check and see what everybody else is eating. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

If he likes to do it, decide decide if he's if he's in a grump or not that he's missing.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Like, come dine with me.

SPEAKER_05 5:25

Yeah. Honestly, basically.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

Basically.

SPEAKER_05 5:28

Thank you. Exactly. Well, sorry, we're not here to debate our domestic um issues with poor Emma, who's probably thinking what I'm really getting excited out of this one.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

It's like real life marriage.

SPEAKER_04 5:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

100% exposed.

SPEAKER_04 5:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:50

Well, Emma, I have to say, I was really excited for having you come on because I think you have a lot to bring, not only to parents, but in people in general, but specifically parents during their early years. Because looking at your story and we'll chat about that, um, I think there's a lot of parallels that parents with new kids can draw from. I mean, you had a major career shift and identity change, and a lot of new parents go through that when they have young children. And also, you talk a lot about the mindset and staying in the present. And a lot of parents find it really difficult to do that, especially when they have young kids. And we've spoken about this before, and we experience this ourselves when when you're in the sort of trenches with young kids, you're either dwelling on the past or looking forward to when they are older. It's always, oh, when this happens, when this happens, when this happens, and forget to kind of live in the moment. And I think it might be really helpful for parents, maybe with young kids or anybody that is facing those issues to maybe learn from your story. So tell us a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Yeah, so I that's a beautiful introductory as well. Um, I would have started say all those years ago, I did start in the fashion industry when I was like nine, well, nineteen. Wow. So, and then I would have been in retail, you know, Marks and Spencer's when I was 16. And I loved it. I got it from my grandmother. Look, she was a dressmaker, and I loved it, but I was always a fast-paced person. I lived off stress and I didn't know that. Okay. And I was an overachiever, I had to keep going. I would have got this from my dad. I'm the eldest of four, and I just kept going and going and going. I'm a big go-getter. I'm I'm like hyper-independent. If I want something, I'll go and get it. It just was like constant, and then it got to a point where I was constantly achieving, but I didn't get that sense of fulfillment. I was like onto the next, onto the next. I never sat in it. So from that, then you know, I had a partner, then I checked the list, I had the amazing job, I bought a house, and then like the baby was next. It was tick, tick, tick, tick. I always had lists in my head of like a tick the box, and then that relationship ended. I got made redundant then in my job at the time, and I was studying life coaching as well. I did it for me, not to get money out of it. I was like, I want to understand myself a bit more because everybody really liked coming to me with their problems and talking, and I was like, I'm gonna explore this a bit more. But and then from that, then through like a really hard breakup, I really, really hit like rock bottom with everything going on, and COVID hit as well. And I just lost all sense of time and in the now. We were worrying about what had had happened and all that I was about to lose, and then the anxiety of the future and what was going to happen, and what like you know, was going to come up that I didn't know what the present was.

SPEAKER_05 9:00

And and just to sort of maybe characterize the impact, I mean, your relationship was maybe was it 10 years?

SPEAKER_02 9:06

10 years, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:07

And then the redundancy and COVID and all of these things sort of happened at the same time. I mean, that's one of those things is a massive thing for people.

SPEAKER_02 9:15

So, in the space of a year, uh, sorry, in the space of six months to ten, sorry, it would have been about yeah, no, six months, it wasn't a redundancy. I obviously had broke up with a partner. Uh, my grandmother died, my other grandmother at the time. Um, COVID hit, and then obviously my partner, my ex-partner wasn't living in the house, then which we were only living in for a year, so it was a lot of change, and at the same time, like we were trying for a baby, like and when all that happened, and then about a year later, I was in a new relationship, and then I was selling the house, and then I got made redundant. It was a constant flow of grief and endings that I just physically couldn't cope with, and I said, How can I cope myself now, even though there's loads of things happening to me? How can I just navigate myself a little bit? And I remember like a big thing for me was I was reading the book, you know, Daniela Moyle's book, Jump. You'd love it. Okay, it's her story all about you know how she evolved. She used to go to party, she went traveling, she really suffered with like you know, illness, and one moment she just went traveling and found herself. And I was reading that book at the time, engrossed in like absolute turmoil. And I was like, I really want to do a course, I just want to sign. I'm a big manifestor, guys. And I'm telling you, and I just read this and it was all got to do with Alison Keating. And I read Alison Keaton, and it was like talking about mindfulness, and I was like, that's it, that's the sign. And I logged on, and there is this um, it was the Irish Mindfulness Academy, and I heard a little bit about it, but I was curious about it. And I logged on, and all the places were taken, and it was starting next week, but I'll never take no for an answer. I love that. I'll always go back and I emailed, I was like, Oh, hi, I'm really interested. I know this is starting next week. Is there any way if there's a cancellation, can you let me know? And they wrote back to me and they were like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

And I thought it was just a mindfulness course. I was like, Oh, I'll just go on this course and I'll see. But I didn't know it was like a teacher, you were gonna become a teacher. I was scared shitless now. And I was like, Oh my god, what am I gonna do? But I just said, Do you know what? I'm curious, I'm gonna see what it's about. I've done the coaching diploma, I can do this again. And I really wanted to be in person because I was working from home, it was COVID, but we couldn't do it. And I said, How is this gonna work behind a screen? Because you need physical connection um and you need that energy. But I said, Okay, we have to take the hat off of the judgment and what we think it should be instead of what it could be. And every month it was just the most beautiful course I've ever done because it gave you space. Yes, there was a lot of education to take on board and a curriculum, but if we didn't get to it that month, it was just left there. We were left to enjoy conversations. It wasn't like, okay, guys, we need to stop the conversation, because that's where the actual embodiment and evolvement happened because we were so mindful with each other and how we were talking and having to be really engrossed in a conversation through Zoom. We could actually give our attention with intention to it. So I for a few months I was like, is this really clicking with me? Like, I don't know what's happening. But I was showing up every month because you had to do it over a weekend every month, and you had to put in like your all your homework, everything like that. But I started to really put it into play. So I went out on walks and I wouldn't listen to podcasts, and I wouldn't say, Oh, I have to get the steps in. I'll ring my ma'am for a half an hour, that's 7,000 steps. I started to challenge my mind to become more present because, like, just to revert backwards, I could not stop and stand still or even sit with myself for the majority of my life. And this is only about three or four years, about three years, mmm about four years ago. I was up at um 5 30 in the morning, I was out to the gym, then I went to work, then I came home, I could be doing the food shop, I could be going to an event, I could be doing so. I did not stop till half ten at night, and I was vibrating, then I got ulcers in my stomach. There was a lot of things because your gut, if your gut is not um happy, that's where all your cortisol goes. That's where everything and I like was actually blown out. Like I felt so stressed, but I was addicted to stress. I don't know any different. And then, you know, I took that on from an early age because my mum and dad separated when I was 18, 19.

unknown 13:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:59

So there's a lot of rooted stuff in there as well. So I just said to myself, I have to learn to be with myself, to self-soothe, regulate myself, and just be curious about if I'm more mindful now, because mindfulness isn't just about being in the present, like we've talked about this, it's so big, isn't it? Yeah, it's huge. But just test myself and being patient and being calm, because I would have been like, Hey, how are you? Like I was hyper. Yeah, and I I just had an aha going, I can change the way not only I control myself, but how I present myself to the world and who I want to be. We can always change because when you change your inner world, your outer world will reflect. So when I started to challenge that a few years ago, it really started to pay off. Like my relationships got better, I became more calmer in myself, more aware of my body, my surroundings. I say I am a sensitive person, but now through that and the increased awareness and my empathic self, I'm hyper aware. So, but I'm so like in control of myself and even honoring my authenticity. It's like I don't like that now. Instead of going, Oh, I'll I'll I'll just go and I'll see how I feel. No, I'm okay. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm I'm so confident with who I am because I'm mindful of who I am and what I want. Or we've all been to times where we would say go on a night out or go to dinner with friends, and we just we know we have a two-hour kind of let's say time frame, and you know you want to head home, say for nine o'clock. But when we hit past that, you start to get nervous, you start to feel uncomfortable, but you sit with it and you say, Oh, and everyone's like, Oh, just stay, just stay. I did that for years, and we all do that. Yeah, and then you go home and you're anxious and you feel horrible, and you nearly can get overwhelmed or upset. Like, I was having panic attacks because I pushed myself, and now all my friends know I'm like, right, I'm off. They're like, Okay, see it. No one challenges me. Like, even I went out the weekend, I had a few drinks, and I got a bambino, went home, watched Harry Potter, and it was 10 o'clock. I was like, This is living.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

So people relate to that. Yeah, so I suppose what I hear when you talk about all of that is kind of how that we're kind of programmed to have this continuous checklist that you never ever reach the bottom of. Yep. And we're on that hamster wheel continuously just trying to achieve that checklist because apparently, if you get to the bottom of it, you achieve life. And that's what happiness is, yes, and that's not really how it needs to be or should be. No, and then so mindfulness and then boundaries without having to justify their existence is a form of self-love.

SPEAKER_05 16:57

Well, she's much better at this than I am.

SPEAKER_04 17:01

See, I listened, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_03 17:02

That's why you're a team, you're a team. And I totally agree because I think, and again, bringing it back to like people who are in very kind of transitions in life. Okay, so obviously, you go through pregnancy, you go through the birth of your baby, you transition into motherhood, your your body has changed, your mind has changed, and we've covered that extensively. Um, and your purpose in life seems to now be defined by how well you look after this tiny little tyrant that you adore, but as judged by everyone else on the outside, yeah, and I think that that's really crap. So in terms of kind of the self-love, the boundaries that don't need to be justified, that kind of stuff, that's self-awareness. I could see how that would be a potential kind of salve to all of that stress. So can we look at that? Go first.

SPEAKER_05 18:07

Yeah, I mean, what one thing that struck me is your talk about the boundaries. And uh one of the things I I guess experience a lot when I'm dealing with parents of of young children is their difficulty in trying to establish boundaries with maybe relatives, other people.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

It's constantly dealing with other people's expectations, yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 18:32

For example, even setting boundaries of I don't want you to visit me right now, or when you visit, this is what I want you to do. How can we help parents establish boundaries?

SPEAKER_02 18:41

I think it's like it's not being afraid to honor yourself and like speak your mind on what you're thinking.

SPEAKER_04 18:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:49

Because the majority of the time we do think you know, the negative and 90% of the thoughts we have can't be negative. And we always think of, oh my god, the worst is gonna happen. But you have to honor yourself and your children and your partner, and you that's your little bubble. Yeah. So if you're actually putting other people first, you're catering to their needs before yours, where right now your needs are with yourself and you know, your baby, your toddler, your child, your husband, your family, that's number one for the moment. But you're probably you can be stuck in nearly sometimes grieving the old, you know, because you were that daughter, you were that son, you're so close to your family, and you're trying to keep on top of that as well as keep on top of your priorities. So it's being mindful of that, and it is really expressing that to your family because unfortunately, they're not mind readers, and it's okay to grow, it's okay to evolve and to change, but you have to let people know what your boundaries are, what your limits are, and say, Hey, listen, you know, I'm actually up the walls today. Can we do a rain check?

SPEAKER_03 20:01

That's a polite way of saying no, yeah, and that's what I was gonna get at because so much of communicating boundaries comes down to how they are communicated, yeah. Because saying to somebody, no, I can't do that, or I don't want to do that today, um, or I'm not able to do that today, how you say that or where it comes from within you is nearly always kind of influences how the other person takes it, and trying to find that steady place within yourself that is calm and receptive while still setting a boundary is very difficult.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Yeah, and a big thing I always say is it's not what you say, it's how you say it. Yeah, so we could be having a conversation, and you could say to me, Um, oh, let's say you said you want to do the podcast. If I'd say, Yeah, I'll do it later. But if I said to you, yeah, we'll do it later. Yeah, see the difference? Totally. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. So it's all about reframing what you want to say, and it's leading with love because one thing that I learned is learning to reframe something, okay? Because we constantly come from a place of reaction, yeah, which I did for the majority of my life. But when I start with mindfulness, when I started to incorporate, okay, I came from a place of, you know, like defense, I had to protect. But then it's like the power pause, and then I say, okay, I'm just gonna have a minute or two. I don't want to react, but if I didn't react, if I get a minute to just sit in this and just take a few deep breaths and respond, is that gonna be different from what I say and how I show up? Yes. So it's learning to be aware of that as well, instead of saying, like, I'm so stressed out today, like, no, no, no. Just say, right, I'm just gonna go upstairs for a second and go to the loo and just breathe and just say, I'll eat with love saying, Listen, I'm a bit like. Overwhelmed today, but I'll get to it later if that's alright.

SPEAKER_03 22:04

It's two different things. Totally, because you're showing your vulnerability and actually creating an intimacy as you ex as you say no. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:13

Well, well, Emma, I have um a real life example.

SPEAKER_03 22:16

How the I bet you this involves me. Go on. Of course it involves you. Screw you, go on.

SPEAKER_05 22:22

And I have to say, yeah, I don't mind saying this. We've done sessions together, Emma, and I actually found you so helpful. Thank you. In in this, and I and I implemented one of our exercises yesterday. What did you do?

SPEAKER_01 22:35

What did you do? So tell me.

SPEAKER_05 22:39

So yesterday I um I'm dying to find out.

SPEAKER_03 22:43

Go on.

SPEAKER_05 22:43

I cooked a meal.

SPEAKER_03 22:44

Right.

SPEAKER_05 22:45

And the kitchen was left in a bit of a state. And then Anne, before I got to it, started getting to it. And she said, you know, Afif, like there's so many things I have to wipe and things like that, and do this and do that. Do you remember this? And then I said, Drives me demanded. I'm gonna do what Emma said. I'm not gonna react. I'm gonna pause and then I'm gonna respond.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

I remember this because I remember thinking it was uncharacteristically calm of him.

SPEAKER_05 23:14

So I paused.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Right.

SPEAKER_05 23:17

I didn't straight away said, Well, I cooked the fucking dinner, you should be appreciative, blah blah blah. I was like, okay. Walked over to her, gave her a big hug, and I said, I'm sorry, I'll try and do better again. And she looks back and goes, That's the best fight we've ever had.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Oh my god, the skills! We've done you. It's brilliant or a treat.

SPEAKER_05 23:38

Yes, and as I was hugging you, I was thinking of Emma thing. Emma.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

There were three of us in the moment. You were part of that moment.

SPEAKER_04 23:49

Emma, you legend. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

My skills are really sat in there. The only question is, will the behaviour actually change?

SPEAKER_05 23:58

Oh my god. But I mean, like, joking aside.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

How did you feel though after doing that?

SPEAKER_05 24:05

Great. Like, great. Like, I I sort of said, you know, like I paused for a moment, and instead of me reacting to it, I honestly did say, okay, this isn't coming from a place of I had said it really nicely and fairly.

SPEAKER_03 24:18

And you have. I really have.

SPEAKER_05 24:19

And you have, and you and she did. And I was like, you know, she said it in a really nice way. And I could see that she tried to say it in a non-giving outy way. Normally I would feel um persecuted.

SPEAKER_03 24:31

Yes, persecuted.

SPEAKER_05 24:32

But I actually paused. Okay, I can use the words. I let I let the initial sort of reaction phase go away. I paused and I then responded. This is what we do.

SPEAKER_03 24:44

Yeah, but listeners love this. It's reality, it's real life.

SPEAKER_05 24:47

This is what we do. I said I said, okay, I acknowledge what you said. I am really sorry. I'll try and do better. And I said it in a very, very nice and kind way. And she was like taken above.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

I really was.

SPEAKER_03 24:56

Who are you?

SPEAKER_02 24:57

And what have you done with my husband's?

SPEAKER_05 24:59

Where's my fight? I wasn't, you know.

SPEAKER_03 25:00

No, I wasn't itching for a fight. And I know you were nice. I know you were. I actually said, love, if you wouldn't mind. And I know I've said it before, but can you just be mindful of blah blah blah? And then normally he'd be like, ah Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:14

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Your support means the world to us and helps us keep bringing you the content you love. Thank you for listening and for being part of the Baby Tribe community. But no, so thank you. And and the reason I'm bringing this up is when you're in the trenches with young kids and you're trying to communicate, often it's reactionary.

SPEAKER_03 27:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:01

And and that's probably dictated by the circumstances.

SPEAKER_03 27:03

And you're so tired.

SPEAKER_05 27:04

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

You're so tired of resources left.

SPEAKER_05 27:08

Yeah, you're so tired. But but if the partners, if that was the situation, would actually maybe even pause for a few seconds.

SPEAKER_02 27:16

Yeah, you like align your own energy.

SPEAKER_05 27:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

That's a really great, great way to describe it. Like, how do I feel right now? Where's this coming from? Do I feel reactive? Okay, just come back to myself for one second. What's going on? So I can show up to this little person, so I'm not deflecting on this little person. Yeah. Because that little person is frustrated. You don't know their emotions. Can they communicate that to you? And I'll give a good example. I God, I haven't babysat in years, right? And I don't know why. I was probably terrified. I have a little niece, Effie. She is like sass. She's mini-me. And I love her. And then Emerson is one. My sister has two. And um normally it there would have to be two of us minding because they're a handful. And a few weeks ago, um, my sister was having her little date night, and I was like, I'll mind them. She's like, Oh no, no, no. I was like, you guys need time to yourself, it's very important. I was like, I'll mind them, but I'd never minded the two of them together. And she was like, Are you sure? I was like, Listen, I'm gonna be fine. And I thought I'm gonna be fine. So we were out the night before, I only had one glass of wine, and she was like, Are you not gonna stay out? I was like, No, no, I'm not being hungover for two children. No way, yeah. So I knew myself, I was like, I want to be in good energy for these children. So when I rocked up straight away, um Emerson was coming out of his nap. Now Effie was grand, she can play with herself and she does all these things, little girly girl. And Emerson is a total different type, like he's real quiet, he's sensory, he hates noise, he's like, you know, he's a total different child. But when they were leaving, because he was in the process of only going to crash the first week or two, so he's only getting used to other people. He cried uncontrollably for 15 minutes. Now, normally the old Emma would be like, but I just was like, go, just go. Claudine was like, I feel so I was like, it's okay, they're gonna cry. You know, it's okay, he's gonna stop, it's fine. So I had already primed myself being like, This is okay. Instead of going, he's crying, he's crying, what am I gonna do? And I wasn't spiralling, I was just dealing with the moment, going, he's gonna be fine. I was like, I'm taking him to the shop, he's in his boogie, Effie's with me. So I was wheeling him up like that, and he loves calmness, so he just kept crying and crying. So I just started singing Disney songs and it's singing the wheels on the bus just nice, yeah. And then he stopped. And then I just was like, he wants like you know, curating calmness for him, and then we went to the playground and then got home. She was painting, I was playing with him with a disco ball on the floor, made them some food. My sister came back after three hours, like yeah, I was like, he had a great time. Because I was in that state of presence, obviously, but I was like in that moment where normally the old demo would have been like, Oh my god, if they start crying, how am I gonna mind two children? She wants to do this, she's all go, go, he's all calm. I don't know how my sister does it, actually, to be honest. But I just was like, I'm just dealing with them now. Yeah, and then I walked away and I was like, I feel so proud. And even then my sister asked me to mind them again, and I was and I actually feel proud because she's leaving me with that responsibility now, she trusts me. Yeah, but I want she knows, but it's well for her the freedom. I want her to have her date nights because if that's me down the line as well, like it's so important as parents to have that even once a month, have those two, three hours of you guys, yeah. Like, and I I actually put that on her because I know I'd like that, you know, when I have children, but to be able to say, Come here, take just go for a coffee, take two hours off, hold hands and you know, walk down the promenade. It's so important.

SPEAKER_03 30:53

Yeah, no, I totally agree. But even when we were talking about like having that kind of moment where you kind of recenter yourself for a second, I always say that myself and a fief never really argued until we had kids. Um, and it was the first time that there was somebody that we loved more than each other. Do you know? So, and the stakes were high and we were exhausted. So I think that having we would have benefited, I think, from having a kind of an alignment, as you said, you know, um, and and some ability to communicate to get to that alignment, I think it would have been really beneficial for us. Now we were grand, it's not like the marriage has fallen apart or anything like that, but I could imagine like it was still really hard, yeah, yeah. And I just could imagine people who maybe at a difficult point personally or even within their marriage, by the time a baby comes along, it's just it's it's so hard.

SPEAKER_02 31:55

And I think as well, a big thing in here is is communication, yeah. And you know, when you look back to even like our parents and our grandparents, like you just got up and got on with it, or the man went out to work, you were at home, and you didn't really probably talk about your emotions and your needs and like your wants in a relationship. And yeah, I need a bit of time, I need a half an hour to have a bath. You just you absorbed, suppressed, and got on with it. Yeah, but we're in this era of change now where it's very, very important to communicate with each other what your needs are. So if you need rest, if you need time off, if you need a little bit more help, if you need all those things, like because your partner is not a mind reader, and then the more you say it might be uncomfortable, but you're being vulnerable, like we were talking about, you're showing your emotions, and they're getting to know the version of you now. Yeah. Because you're not the same version after having a baby and having children and being married and being a unit together, probably that you were when you first met that partner. So you have to adjust together, and because you're you're changing all the time, and especially as a woman with like how many hormones pumping through a body, perimenopause, menopause, childbirth, everything. Like, do you know what I mean? It's just wild. You know, you know, you know, anyway.

SPEAKER_03 33:14

The pod has been such so educational for him. It's been amazing. It's unreal. Yeah, like men get away easy.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 33:22

His mind has been blown regularly.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

It's wild, wild. So it's really checking in together on where you're at right now, and like, or even like we were talking about before, like a really good tool for people and for partners to communicate and people out there, or even with your children, like your older children as well, is like, where are you at today? On a scale of one to ten, where are you at today? Are you like a one, you're feeling low, or ten? But then you don't need to explain yourself to that person. You're probably not in the mood of saying, I'm at I'm a five because this, this, you just got I'm a five.

SPEAKER_03 33:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:59

And you understand where they're at right now.

SPEAKER_03 34:01

Yeah, 100%. And if I've always like recently he started saying this, and it's so true, that like it's never gonna be 50-50 in a relationship. Somebody's gonna be only able to give 20% some days, yeah. And if the other if the other person can only give 30%, well then you just decide there and then that it's damage control for the day, and that'll be grand. Yeah, and on a day that you can both give over 50%, that is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

Yeah, and I think a big thing is that you're even talking about is, and I've been in this like from relationships as well, is ownership. Yeah, like you know, the way you might be having a bad day, and a thief might be having a bad day, but one of you just have to go, do you know what? I actually was acting up there, I'm actually really sorry, or do you know what? I know I did that wrong, or sorry, I didn't take whatever the the rubbish out or I didn't get around to that errand instead of just brushing off and deflecting and saying, Well, you never did this, you're making it about the other person where it's really you, so it's taking ownership of your actions and accepting things as well in that moment for what they are, and then moving on, just being like move on for a minute.

SPEAKER_03 35:06

And just saying, I know I didn't do it, but I'm just not up to it right now. If you can't do it, we'll get it done then, yeah. You know, and that's the 2020 6060, who can give what percentage on what day. Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 35:20

Can I talk a little bit more about living in the now? Because I think that's something that's relevant to people in general, but specifically parents with young kids. Um, because especially parents with babies and toddlers, they're often either living in the future, worrying about their kids, um, you know, when are they gonna start sleeping or when are where are they gonna go to college or past regret mode?

SPEAKER_03 35:43

Um also the now is bloody exhausting, so it's hard to live in.

SPEAKER_05 35:47

And the now, exactly, exactly. Um, how do you kind of shift your mindset? How can you do that?

SPEAKER_02 35:54

Yeah, so one analogy I always give, and it really like mind blown my head, is it's like worrying. Okay, if you're not living in the now, you're worrying. Obviously, you're dwelling on the past, you're worrying about the future, which is normal. Every one of us does it, like you. Like I'd be lying if I said I didn't do it. Of course I worry, yeah. But worrying is like a rocking chair, it gives you something to do, but it gets you nowhere. And allow yourself to worry for like 15 minutes a day. Like put a timer on and sit there and worry the heck out of the day, but then you have to leave it to the side. You can't sit in that all day, every day, because then you're actually giving energy to things that are out of your control. But if you can control how you are in that moment for the rest of the day, you're already making little steps of saying, Okay, I can worry about how the kids are getting to school, this and this, but you'll figure it out. But you can't think about it for the full day because then you're not being present, your energy is so low, you'll probably feel sick, you probably don't want to eat, you're gonna stress more, and you're just gonna add more onto that load instead of taking it away. Yeah, but do you know?

SPEAKER_03 37:05

Totally, and it it reminds me of something that my daughter said to me yesterday, and I was just looking at her going, like, where did you come from? But I was sitting and I was just having a day where I was achieving nothing, right? Which is okay, by the way. It was just not happening. I literally binge watched Gilmore Girls for like hours on end, and I was sitting there going, I need to be doing this and I need to be doing this, and I just could not get my shit together to actually want to get off the couch, right? It was just not happening. And I said, She came downstairs and I said, I actually feel really bad now because I've done nothing with the day that I'd either A needed to or B kind of intended to do. And she just looked at me and she goes, Look, this is how you do it. And I said, What? And she goes, The time is gonna pass regardless, okay? The time will pass and that's just gonna happen. So either you get up and you do what you want to do and you use that time, or you can't do it today, and you just wallow and enjoy wallowing. But whatever you're doing, just make sure that you actually don't feel bad about it because that's just what you're doing today. Did Maggie say that? Yes, oh my god, and she goes, That's what I'm saying. She's gotta go far, that girl. Yeah, she goes, That's what I do. And I was like, What do you mean? And she goes, like, there's some days.

SPEAKER_05 38:23

Did she do the Empower with Emma course?

SPEAKER_03 38:26

This is just the child. I'm looking at her going, Oh my god, she's a demon child from somewhere else. Yeah, but um, like she was just so I think her what she was saying was that like on the days that she can't motivate, like she'll either try and motivate herself by saying, Look, it's the time is gonna pass, so I'm either gonna get it done now and just suck it up. And then if she can't, if that's not even enough to motivate her on that day, she just says, Fine, I'm gonna enjoy wallowing. That's the day done. Wow. And I was just kind of going like, Wow.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

And you've raised her, look at you, you should be so proud.

SPEAKER_03 38:59

She just figured that out on her own.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

Yeah, well, like you know, the two of you did.

SPEAKER_03 39:03

I was the one, I was the one sitting feeling bad for being on the couch, but it's actually what I needed to do yesterday.

SPEAKER_05 39:08

Yeah, no, I mean we're recording on a Wednesday, but the bank holiday Monday that's just passed, we both Well, it wasn't yesterday, it was the day before, but anyway, yeah. Yeah, we were both um asked each other for permission to just waste the day away. Yeah, and it was gross. She was good. Afife, I'm just gonna watch Gilware Girls all day and we'll get a takeout. And I said, I'm just gonna play my game all day and we won't feel guilty. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:31

Well, I that was after the child had coached me.

SPEAKER_05 39:33

Yes, okay, so that's where that came from. Because I was wondering, it was out of character.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

It is out of character surrendered into that moment and we're like, No, I really enjoyed it and I really enjoyed it. Do you know why? Because you actually allowed yourself, you gave yourself permission where we feel that I think now, I don't know what it is, uh especially after COVID and the generation we're in now, we get so much shame from having time off or rest. Oh, I can't do this, I have to do this, have to do this. But then you look at other people, you know. If you go on holidays when you're in Italy and it's like La Dol TV, you know, the the good life, and they're all go slow, they're not on their phones, they're just and I'm like, this is the life. But then when you go back, you're like, have to do this, have to do this, because we're so accustomed to the speed of living and it's getting faster and faster. And the the faster it gets, the more we think we have to be overachieving how much money, what we need, where you need to strip it back. Because how are you supposed to obviously have energy to deliver as a parent, deliver as a you know, a work colleague, as an aunt, as a sister, as a mother, if you've no rest. Yeah, you have to have rest. Even if that's like an hour a day saying, Do you know what? I'm gonna have a bath on my own or a shower or watch Gilmore Girls for an hour, you need that time.

SPEAKER_03 40:51

Because as the child says, that time is gonna pass. And once it's gone, it's gone. And you're gonna be on zero percent battery. Yeah. So, regardless of whether you're making a decision that you're gonna do something during that time that's you know, ticks a box on terms of the to-do list, or make a decision that that's not for me today. I'm gonna sit down and wallow and watch the Gilmore girls, at least be present in the time as it passes. Yeah, but then I'd say, How did you feel then after your life? I didn't use Instagram from my phone yet. But there you go. There you go. I was like, I'm done with my wallowing. I've I've filled up the cup, I'm good.

SPEAKER_05 41:25

Yeah, this is this is a fantastic segue into the next bit of conversation I want to have with you, Emma. Social media.

SPEAKER_04 41:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 41:31

Um I I said to you before um the podcast started, I'm meeting you in person for the first time today, and but I've been following you on Instagram for a while, and you are the same exact person that you are. Thanks.

SPEAKER_04 41:44

Sincerity. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 41:45

And and and this kind of sincerity and authenticity sometimes is rare on it, you know, on the city.

SPEAKER_03 41:51

Oh guys, you're gonna be a big head. But the the reason we'll widen the door of the way out.

SPEAKER_05 41:57

The reason I'm saying this is a lot of people on Instagram don't show their authentic self. I mean, you show sadness, grief, happiness, contentment, all of that. And you talk about all of these things, which is great. But sometimes I feel that as a parent, going on social media, because let's face it, if you're feeding a baby in the middle of the night, you're probably scrolling on Instagram and you're probably automatically comparing your life to others. And it's just the realization that not everybody is that authentic and a lot of a lot of what you see is curated. So, how do you sort of navigate that?

SPEAKER_02 42:30

You delete and follow our block. Okay, basically, straight to the point. And it's like, even for like listeners out there or people, like I came to a place of if if your social media feed, now I know TikTok is different because of the algorithm, and you know, you could be watching cat videos for three hours, like I know I'm watching cat videos, dance videos, food videos, like everything, like aliens, Egyptians, you name it. Yeah, um, but when it comes to Instagram, you obviously have an algorithm for who you follow. Yeah. And obviously, as you grow and evolve, you have the power and the control to filter, to filter out your life. And even with me, if you find me annoying, I'm like, yeah, mute me, unfollow me. That's okay. As some people like tea, some people like coffee, some people don't drink caffeine. Yeah, you like that's no judgment on me. But it's saying, okay, I maybe want to mute those people for a while because they might be triggering you. They but you like to follow them, you want to support them, but just for right now, you're going through stuff. Or do you know what? I'm actually gonna unfollow them because the period I'm in in my life, there's no purpose for that content in my life. Or if someone was bullying you online, you don't need that follow. You can block them as well because you have to protect your peace. And you you have to understand as well like if parents are awake at night time, you're on how many hours of sleep? Known probably. Your brain is so exhausted and hardwired that whatever you're seeing, you're consuming, and then you're going into To doubt of going, should I have that? Should I look like her in that bikini? Oh my god, her house is so clean. Like I have three kids, my house is in bits. You're comparing yourself to others. Then comparison is the teeth of joy. Your joy is actually going down then in percentage because you think that's what happiness looks like, but it's not. So you've the control to filter out what you watch. And even for me, I I always do a rejig every now and then because I'm in another era of my life where I like to follow people that are maybe the same short shape of body that I'm in. Um mindset, you know, nice quotes and calmness, curation, a bit of style. Like I like to mix it up, and I might be in another era of my life, do you know? Where before years ago, when I was really in the fashion industry, it would have been a lot of fashion content and this and that. Now I like a little bit, but not excessive because that isn't as meaningful to me now as it used to be, you know. So it's filter, you have the power to filter things.

SPEAKER_05 45:00

Yeah, that's no, that's it's it's great advice. Mine is full of mini orkies at the moment. I really need to fix that.

SPEAKER_03 45:06

Seriously, yeah, it's it's that's good.

SPEAKER_05 45:08

You know the way they took they say that you can find out a lot about a person by looking at their explore page on Netflix. And Netflix and Netflix, and some guys would be embarrassed to show you their explore page because it's full of you know big breasted women. Mine is just miniature yorkies, it's just ridiculous. There you go.

SPEAKER_03 45:23

Top to bottom. Your grand and like his authentic self.

SPEAKER_05 45:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very, very embarrassing. Um, can you tell us about the like what services do you provide in terms of your one-to-one coaching and your um courses that you do?

SPEAKER_02 45:36

Oh, okay. So at the moment I am a one-to-one empowerment coach. Yeah. So I do work online, but we can organize to work in person. Um, how I work is it's like life coaching mixed with a holistic and mindfulness approach. As when people think life coach and they're like, Oh, is she just gonna be coaching me what to do and where to go? It's very LA. It's just not that. It gives me the ick when people when I say life coach, I'm not gonna lie. I want to find a better word for it, you know? And I bit where you're at right now in your life, how you want to be that elevated version? What is it that is you're curious about? Is it a career change? Is it your confidence? Is it you're feeling stuck in your life? We work together on that, and we see what blossoms and what unfolds, and we go with that. And you know that Afife as well. Like you're going with how you're feeling today. Like, you might come to me with an agenda of, oh my god, my confidence is at this point, but then the end of the session, it could be like, I actually want a career change, and that's what's getting me down. But we partner up as a team, it's not I'm sitting in a chair and you're talking to me and I'm trying to find out your trauma.

SPEAKER_03 46:46

Is that the difference between say seeing a psychologist?

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Two different things. A psychologist is about the past and your traumas and addictions. I deal with the now and where you're at.

SPEAKER_03 46:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 46:56

So, yeah, your past will come into it, but I wouldn't deal with like addictions. A little bit of trauma can come in, that's okay because that's what shapes you. But we're dealing on the person you are with today. How do I feel today? What's going on in my life? How do I want to break it down? Where do I want to go? And I give you, it's not just I'm coaching you, we work on exercise, I make you write things down because it's very important to have ownership of writing things down so you have a place of reflect.

SPEAKER_04 47:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:21

And then I bring in the mindfulness tools that we've been talking about today. Um we do exercises, and at the end, um, sometimes I do breath work or a meditation to how you're at, because a lot of us, as much as even parents as well, we don't get that space and grace for ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 47:39

That even if you're space and grace.

SPEAKER_02 47:41

Wow, that's premium territory, there, isn't it? I'm good, I'm at you don't get that space and grace to just be yourself, and even if it's like we do a session, say like every three to four weeks, and you might not even have five minutes to just close your eyes and be with yourself. I do that for you. I'm like, okay, and then I'd say to you, do you know what? Check in if you've had any wins. So there's a bit of a accountability there, and then outside of my coaching as well, um and there's neuroscience behind. I am a life coach in neuroscience. Yeah, that's what I wanted to talk to you about. I'm in neuroscience, so I don't just coach you as a person, I put I coach the whole you. So what I'm hearing, what I'm not hearing, you know, how your body language is, what your tone is, what your mirror is, what's going on. Like I could know straight away. Like, we do even talk about this.

SPEAKER_03 48:28

I'd be scared because I've been sitting across from you for an hour now and I don't know what it is. Interview with the bumpa.

SPEAKER_02 48:33

It's a bit weird. No, but I can switch that on. I've learned to switch that off where I remember I used to go really into it, where now I switch it off. If I don't need to read you, I don't want to read you. Okay. I because I'm having a conversation with you. I'm I don't want I just I switch it off straight away. Where if we were in an intimate setting, let's say if I was in a retreat setting where I do retreats as well, I switch it on and I hone in. You're there to analyze non-verbal stuff, exactly where I haven't got that switched on now. Okay. So thank you. That's probably one of my superpowers. But then I do um, I'd love to do a retreat next year. I've done retreats before. I love just one-to-ones with people, I love meeting new people because I think my purpose obviously came from my pain the last few years. But I think as growing up, I didn't have that community in those friends because I always felt I was a bit different when I didn't have that support system, even though my mum and dad they were good parents, but as friends, as nurturers, you know, as cheerleaders, um, as role models to express myself, I didn't have that. So just creating a community of people, like I go out on hikes every month, I teach yoga on the beach in the summer, and I've launched my own camina. Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that. Yeah, 2026, baby. Yeah, there's five places left.

SPEAKER_05 49:47

I know we can't leave the kids for a week, though. I really want to do it.

SPEAKER_01 49:51

But anyway, you do it and I'll stay.

SPEAKER_05 49:54

You've heard it live. There's do it.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

Yeah, you should do it. Oh my god, look at the smile on your face, if you're on my bucket list, yeah. You do it. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 50:04

This is like a a coaching session within itself. Like the trip we always joke that we get all these experts on the pod, and really it's just like a public forum for therapy for us.

SPEAKER_02 50:14

But it is really good in a way because you're a real life couple and then you have a guest on and you're able to have honest conversations.

SPEAKER_03 50:19

Yeah, you should do it. Like, if that's what you really want to do, that's it. It's easy for me to let you go for a week, love.

SPEAKER_05 50:24

We'll talk about the podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

That's brilliant.

SPEAKER_05 50:27

Yeah. So tell me if our listeners could walk away with one practical action from today, what would it be?

SPEAKER_02 50:35

I would say breathe. And the power of pause. Yeah. Um it's literally because one thing for me, okay, is I remember, and not some people might know this. So you know when you have a child and they're really upset and they're crying, and they're like like they actually, they're like yeah, they're like that.

SPEAKER_03 50:54

Oh, and they turn blue because they can't get out of here.

SPEAKER_02 50:56

So, what do you do? Oh my god, what I do is I blow on their face slightly, slowly, I go, and then they go, and then they come back because they've taken a breath, because they're in a state of frustration, they're in a state of emotion you don't know because they're so heightened, like ourselves as humans. We're still little humans when you think about it, we're just an adult's body. So when you're in that state of frustration, because you know what your emotions are, you can label them now because you're a grown-up. When you're a baby, you don't know what anything is, or a toddler, or even like a a teenager. So, in that moment when you feel all those emotions, just go, just breathe, you know, a few deep breaths, you know, in for two, three, out for two, three. Do that 10 times. Run to the bathroom, it will take you, no joke, 60 to 90 seconds. I tell you now. And if anyone says I don't have time to breathe, you're lying. Just even me, I I could suffer a few years ago and I'm like, just go okay, breathe. And then I go, I'm just gonna take a second here to breathe. So you're breathing with the power pause and then come back.

SPEAKER_05 52:02

I'm always wary of uh this sort of stuff in general, you know. Yeah, yes. Um the like the you know, I'm doing quotation marks, life coaching and stuff like that. But I've honestly found the four sessions we did was one of the most helpful things I've ever done. They were so good, and even Anne has noticed a change over the last um month.

SPEAKER_02 52:22

Yeah, that is so like rewarding and so nice to hear.

SPEAKER_05 52:25

It's been fantastic. So I really recommend um anybody to top. What a test.

SPEAKER_03 52:30

I think anything that gives people space and grace, as you say, to kind of take a moment and find out who they are within their life at that time is very useful for people. Yeah, yeah. 100%. Yeah, and then you feel less put upon by the world, I think. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 52:52

Well, Emma, thank you so much for coming on the baby tribe. We've had a fantastic chat, I think. Yes, good chat. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 52:58

And you can follow me at Emma Kyo, E-M-M-A-K-E-H-O-E, and my website is empower with Emma.com.

SPEAKER_05 53:03

And we'll put we'll put both of those in the show notes. Yeah. Thank you so much. The Baby Tribe is proudly sponsored by happytummy.ie, the exclusive distributor of Bayagaya probiotics, providing support for gut and oral health for the whole family.

SPEAKER_00 53:18

This show is part of the Headstuff Podcast Network, a hub for the creative and the curious. Shows are produced in association with Headstuff and the Podcast Studios Dublin. Find out more or become a member at Headstuff Podcasts.com.