Brown People Reading

What Would Life Look Like If Work Felt Fun - "Feel good Productivity" by Ali Abdaal

• Asher + Nadia • Season 3 • Episode 11

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Celebrations are in order and to say we are feeling good is an understatement! This month we talk about lifting invisible weights, and use Feel Good Productivity to rethink how we work, rest, and connect. Practical tools, honest reframes, and lots of laughter help us trade burnout for momentum that feels good to keep

If you’re craving productivity that feels human, hopeful, and doable, this one’s for you. Listen, use the tools, and tell us the one experiment you’re trying this week. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs a reset, and leave a quick review to help others find the show.

Author - @aliabdaal

Music by - Asher Ahmahd
Edited by - Donnie Moore  @dddonniemooreee

Reach out
brownpeoplereading@gmail.com

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SPEAKER_03

I'm not a little bit more.

SPEAKER_02

Hi, Matthew. How are you feeling?

SPEAKER_03

I'm feeling really good today. Yes. Your girl got a new job. Hello. I know. I'm so excited. And so so happy.

SPEAKER_02

By time that this airs, you would have already told them so.

SPEAKER_03

By the time this airs, I will have put in my notice.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, good. Bye.

SPEAKER_03

My bitch. Oh, sorry. That's the enthusiasm. I just feel like a weight has been lifted. I feel so relaxed and so happy.

SPEAKER_02

Mm-hmm. Blessed be. I love this for you. True.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_02

You and she texted me this information. I know you were at a conference.

SPEAKER_03

A work conference, which is hilarious.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Um, you just throw all your papers in people's faces, you're like, I'm out of here, bitches.

SPEAKER_03

And then I go back and pick them all up, and I'm like, I actually need these for the next two weeks.

SPEAKER_02

Right, right. Um, but I wanted to scream in the phone. I didn't get a chance to do that. So, like, you know, but as long as you like felt my enthusiasm, my excitement, then we're good.

SPEAKER_03

I really did. I genuinely did. It made me smile so much. I'm like, I gotta keep it in. I can't tell any of these people out loud why I'm so happy right now. But I definitely felt your enthusiasm.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

Good, good, good.

SPEAKER_03

How are you?

SPEAKER_02

Um, I'm doing great. I am doing okay.

SPEAKER_03

It sounded manic, even though I know you're not.

Friendship, Connection, And Digital Check‑Ins

SPEAKER_02

Right, right. Um, no, I think I'm gonna save part of this for like what have I been doing for myself lately.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Um, but I just I'm feeling all right. I I think my goal lately has been like coasting sounds crazy, but like just try not to do too much, and we'll definitely talk about that a little later.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, especially getting into the holiday season and with what's going on in the world. Do not max yourselves out.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I feel like I still want to like see people more. Um, but you know, it gets busy. I think I'm I want to get better about just like texting and checking in.

SPEAKER_03

I think that's great. That's a nice way to let people know you're thinking about them, but you know, you don't necessarily have the time for like a full-blown hangout, yeah, or maybe even a full-blown phone call, but like I am thinking about you.

SPEAKER_02

But I'm and I'm always thinking about my my you know, people that I care about. I really am. And I think I'm just the type of person that always wants to be in person, yeah. You know, and if I'm not, then I'm like, okay, I guess I'll see you. But we'll like when I see you, it's gonna be a really like you know, I am in it to win it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, but I gotta be better. We're in an age where, like, you know, there's so many, we're in an age. Um, I mean, with technology and everything, most people are communicating digitally.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know, like, and because we're all so busy that there is less time to hang out in person.

SPEAKER_03

Truly, like, I have found that for myself as well. I used to have a lot more phone calls. I just don't anymore. Like, I don't have the time for them, and I don't have the energy for them either sometimes.

SPEAKER_02

I do love a phone call though, but it's gotta be the right person.

SPEAKER_03

The right person and the right time. That's the thing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Um, that's another thing that I liked about this book, so let's hurry up and get to this book because clearly things keep popping up.

SPEAKER_03

I know, I was thinking about it as you were talking, but anyways, so that's a good segue to what have you been doing for yourself?

SPEAKER_02

I uh have been realizing that I've been really prioritizing my health.

SPEAKER_01

That's lovely.

SPEAKER_02

Like full scope. I'm making sure that I'm moving in a way, I'm letting go of the way that I used to move, realizing that that's probably not gonna be the same way. Um, which is fine. Like truly, I do feel fine with it now. Um I, you know, but I've really I spent a lot of time, a lot of money, a lot of energy on okay, I am done feeling like I'm dragging myself through life every day. So I gotta figure out what are the steps you have to take. I've been going to that doctor, I started therapy, you know, I I'm working on like supplements and medication and things to like you know, I think I did a pretty okay, I think I'm doing a pretty okay job of moving through life. I think right now I'm just kind of like it doesn't have to be this exhausting though.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know, so like I'm trying to release the exhaustion part of it. Um so actually I thought this book was really nice to like read while I'm kind of processing and going through that.

SPEAKER_03

I love that. Thanks.

SPEAKER_02

What about you? What have you been doing for yourself?

SPEAKER_03

Oh gosh, what have I been doing for myself?

SPEAKER_02

Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no. What have you been doing for yourself? Okay, taking taking unplanned breaths. I love that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, getting a new job. All right.

SPEAKER_02

Um but truly, not to cut you off, even though I just did, right? That's one thing that you really have been working at. You have been like looking, and you said, I I want to shift something, I'm gonna make that happen. And you did.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

It was hard and it took a lot longer than you wanted it to.

SPEAKER_03

So much longer.

SPEAKER_02

And like, but like you did it.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you. Yeah, I have been trying to journal more, and I've never really been big on writing down my manifestations or anything like that, but I did it probably right before I started doing the interviews for this company that I just accepted the offer. And I put on there, I'm like, by the end of 2025, I'm gonna have a new job. And then I wrote down all the things that I wanted it to make me feel. And honestly, I haven't gone back and read it since I accepted the offer, but thinking about my mind, I think this place hits all of them.

SPEAKER_02

Really?

SPEAKER_03

I think so. Okay, it's like giving me tinkles now thinking about it, so I need to write down manifestations more. I was just going through it and I was like, I need to write this down, and this is something we'll talk also about later, but I need to get it out, and I got it out and I wrote it down, and I felt so good once I wrote it down. Yes, and now here we are.

SPEAKER_02

I love that. Look at us.

SPEAKER_03

Look at us go. Well, we've been teasing it, so let's get into it.

Book Setup: Feel Good Productivity

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, let's do it.

SPEAKER_03

So the book is Feel Good Productivity by Ali Abdahl. Um, Asher, what are your first thoughts about this book? Like, what did you think?

SPEAKER_02

Okay, first of all, I liked it. You know what? Do we want to start doing well, maybe you don't want to do a rating system? That seems kind of I feel like that's mean. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Never mind. I don't want to be that type of person. We are not critics. Yes. Right? Um, we're just exploring.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, I really liked it. I did. Um, I mentioned to you earlier that I think it's a lot of simple things that like we kind of know, but don't really think about putting it together in steps.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Right? Um, I will say the one thing was like some of the examples, especially towards the beginning, and I was like, homie, what's happening here? Like, what what are these examples? Like, I I love it though. Like, he seems like, you know, no shade, kind of nerdy.

SPEAKER_03

I don't think that's shade because he very clearly calls himself a nerd multiple times in this book.

SPEAKER_02

I'm into it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, like I I you know I like his self-awareness, and it's like, yeah, these are stereotypical nerdy things, but you know that you know that and you own it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So several times the examples I was like, huh? Hold on, let me read a little more.

SPEAKER_03

That's so funny.

SPEAKER_02

But you know, he gives you enough to understand what he's talking about, so I'll take it.

SPEAKER_03

Maybe I've a nerd because I didn't have those issues at all. I understood everything.

SPEAKER_02

Oh self-realization.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean I've never been a video gamer, so like I don't understand playing games to that level and for that many hours. Like, I just I that could never be me. But what could be me is reading for that length of time. So it's like, yeah, I get it. Oh, yeah, things that you love, whatever.

SPEAKER_02

No, I got the like I got the idea because I think we're all nerdy about something or other, right? I think some of the specific examples, though, I was like, I don't actually know what you're talking about until I read the rest of the paragraph.

Energize Through Play And Side Quests

SPEAKER_03

Oh, interesting. Yeah, yeah, I thought it was really interesting. I liked it. I liked he's very clearly science-based because he was a doctor. He worked at a hospital, and he was having issues with his own productivity and really leaning in and enjoying what he was doing, and that sort of led him down this rabbit hole of research onto productivity and then writing this book. And I think before even he wrote this book, he pivoted, and he has a very popular YouTube channel now, too, and all sorts of stuff.

SPEAKER_02

I actually I need to check that out because he mentioned that a couple times in the book.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, I also liked the like experiments, it was very like I just the organization of the book was really nice and clear, and it was okay. This is one thing. Here are some experiments that like you know, um speak to this. All right, here's the next thing. The there are three main sections, right? The first one is energize, yes, the second one is unblock, and the third one is sustain.

SPEAKER_03

So I should tell you the subhead of this book is how to do more of what matters to you. So that's why he's trying to help us feel good about our productivity or just I don't know, be more positive about it because he's trying to help us find time to do more of what really lights us up.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_03

So sorry, back to you, Asher. Energize, unblock, and sustain.

SPEAKER_02

So then in each section, there are three chapters that kind of talk about three big pillars of that concept, right? Um, so we're just gonna kind of go through the three main sections and pull out the things that resonated with us and you know, go off topic for a little bit, go on our tangents, and here we go, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

All right. So the first section, Energize, the first chapter titled play. Um starts with um, well, the first thing we wanted to mention was the eight play personalities.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. So those are the collector, the competitor, the explorer, the creator, the storyteller, the joker, the director, and the kinesthet? I feel like it's like the athletic.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Physical activities, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. So we won't bore you by going into detail about all eight, but I am very interested, Asher. Which one do you think you are?

SPEAKER_02

I got a problem.

SPEAKER_03

I'm multiple as well.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So which ones are you?

SPEAKER_02

Okay. Um, well, I'm definitely a competitor.

SPEAKER_03

I'm gonna laugh if we picked all the same ones.

SPEAKER_02

Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Aries, baby.

SPEAKER_03

I also feel like I'm a competitor.

SPEAKER_02

Um, and that one, okay. Should I do it in level of like what I think I am the most? Sure. Okay, cool. Um creator is my top. I just I've always loved creating things. It doesn't matter what medium it is, I'd love doing that. Um so then I would say that um I would say that the competitor is next. I tried to push that down a little bit, but like, you know, it's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_03

Fair enough. You who you are.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so the competitor, and then I would say that I would say storyteller.

SPEAKER_03

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02

Um, well, because think about like all of those years that I was like teaching dance, like all of it was storytelling.

SPEAKER_03

That's fair.

SPEAKER_02

You know, and like I think, and even as I I went straight from that into teaching yoga, right? And I always said that like I can't create something without building a story first. I need a why I love that before I can create.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_02

Um, so yeah. Learn something new, and then of course, like well I also I like physical activity, but I don't think I would that's not what you're going to for play. No, yeah, that is something that I enjoy doing for like growth, yes, for wellness, for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So my number one is the explorer.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, for sure.

Making Work Fun And Gamified

SPEAKER_03

I like to wander, discover new places and things I've never seen through hiking, road trips, and other adventures. Like, that is me to a tea. I love a road trip, I love hiking, I love just even here in Chicago, exploring new neighborhoods and finding coffee shops and bookstores I've never seen or been to, and just walking around. Like, I love it so much. I love to find something new. And I when I lived in Florida, I used to feel like I needed to go someplace else to do that. And maybe that was my mistake in mindset living there, or maybe it was just that city. But living here, I'm like, I don't have to leave Chicago, I could just go to a different neighborhood.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And like explore that still lights me up, and I love it. Like, there's it just I love it so much. Um, I think the next thing for me would be the creator. The accomplishment I feel when I've used my creative side to make something, if it's baking, if it's a craft, a new recipe, cooking. I just I feel so full inside when I'm like, I did that. Yeah, like I use my creativity and I did that. I really love that. And then my third would probably be the competitor. I love games and sports, like I love it, and I obviously love to win, but I'm not a jerk about it.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I'm not a jerk about it either, but it's definitely a spectrum.

SPEAKER_03

Oh it is a spectrum, first of all, and secondly, okay, and we just talked about a game night too, and I'm like, what was I thinking? No, I'm joking.

SPEAKER_02

I'm joking, sort of, anyways. No, it's fine. Um, I do want to say that like I think that yes, we can be a lot of these things, and we can be a different one in different situations, for sure, you know what I mean? Um, because I do like I think about Storyteller when we're talking about dance, but like one of the big things I love about dance is how physical it is, you know, and I love using my body in that way. Um I'm definitely funny, like hello. So like jokers on there. Um but you know, like I think we can all be these things at points in our life or in moments in our life, but the things that like I'm trying to stick with the things that kind of carry me through, right? Um, so why are we using that?

Power, Confidence, And Representation

SPEAKER_03

So we're using these to sort of lean into them when we're approaching work, and for somebody who like me who likes um exploring and doing new things, one of the things that Ollie talked about is to create side quests for your day. And a side quest could be I'm gonna go work from this coffee shop for two hours today, and just picking a small side quest each day. It could be I'm gonna try a new software, it could be I'm gonna, you know, read a new book. It it could be or a new genre of book, like it could be something like that, just something small that you're adding to your day to just make your work different, do something different, yeah, but that appeals to that side of play for you. So for me, like exploring a new coffee shop and going for work, going to work there would be a great side quest for me. Yeah, haven't done it. Oh, I talk about it all the time, would love to do it. I need to get it together. I do. My problem is I have so many meetings and I don't want to be that person that's talking at the coffee shop, even though other people do it.

SPEAKER_02

I was like, I've totally been that person.

SPEAKER_03

I just have too many. I feel like I would be so annoying.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's fair. Usually mine is like a half hour, and then sometimes I'll even like walk outside to talk on the phone and then get back on the computer.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, that's nice of you. I have like sometimes it's three hours of meetings back to back.

SPEAKER_02

I never understand that. When am I supposed to work?

SPEAKER_03

These are the questions, Asher.

SPEAKER_02

Um I will say the other day I went to the coffee shop Hex. Love that one. So that one is I don't know what neighborhood that is, but it's on like Clyde, it doesn't matter. Um it's in Chicago. So I went there, Peter and I went there because he had some work to do, and I need to didn't needed to finish reading this book. Um, but like man, I can't tell you how productive I felt. And like Friday mornings, I go to the, I mean, funny enough, it's my ritual to go to this coffee shop called Ritual. Um so like I go there in the morning, and for two hours, it is the most work that I get done, or it feels like the most work I get done all week in that two hours because I'm like, that's what I'm doing today. I know where I'm going, let's do it. You know? Um, and it's to speak to like, yeah, you can go try something new, or it could just be something that gets you out of your head, right?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so like changes up your day, you still have to work, but you can do it from a different place, or you know, whatever speaks to you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So then that kind of melts into another topic that he brought up, which is what would it look like if this was fun?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So he applied this to some things he didn't enjoy when he was working in a hospital, and he went home, I think it was after a really bad shift, and was reading through some of his productivity notes, and he saw somebody ask or pose the question, what would this look like if it were fun? And it really was a mind shift for him, and it's a mind shift for me too. Like, I don't even know what that would look like for me if this, if you know, I changed my work or my approach to work and thought, what if this was like how can I make this fun?

SPEAKER_02

Mm-hmm. Um I have done that frequently with things like spreadsheets. I both hate and love a spreadsheet.

SPEAKER_03

Oh my god, this is a great point. I love a PowerPoint.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, that's a good shift.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I do love a PowerPoint.

SPEAKER_03

For my latest trip to Spain, I made a PowerPoint presentation, like a really nice one in Canva using one of their templates.

SPEAKER_01

Oh.

SPEAKER_03

To like put in all the information, to put in photos of where we're going, all these things. Like, and it just brought me joy that to make it.

People Who Lift You Up Vs Vampires

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna have to look into that. I I've made a couple PowerPoints for presenting. I love one for a presentation, right? But I haven't tried to go outside of that. Um, but what I love to do, especially if it's like data entry and it's just like um monotonous, you're doing the same thing over and over again. Like I make it into a game. It's like I listen to the rhythm of the clicks of the keyboard, and then I I find a pattern so that I can go faster, and then I see how quickly I can go. Yeah. Dot dot space, dot dot space, space, you know, like, and I don't know. I just find that to be a lot more fun.

SPEAKER_03

I love that.

SPEAKER_02

It's super simple, but like, you know still something, and that's the thing, that's the whole point, I think, in a lot of these examples is that like you don't have to reinvent something, you don't have to like turn it into some huge adventure, right? It can just be something that's silly and that's just like a little more fun than your normal everyday.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Right?

SPEAKER_03

Totally.

SPEAKER_02

Um so you know, that was another moment where I was like, oh, I do kind of do that, but it's one of those like you do it without thinking about it, but imagine if you thought about it and used it intentionally. Like how much more productive that you could be. Yeah. You know? Um, there is this um thing that people say, so color guard. If you don't know about it, Google it. No, I'm just kidding. No, truly. So it's like dancing, spinning flags, rifle sabers. Anyway, it's a whole world that, like, if you know it, you know how big it is. If you don't know it, like there's a lot of other people that don't either. Yeah. Um, but there's something that we used to always say in rehearsals, we'd say, it's just color guard. Like when somebody's like freaking out about like getting a phrase together or dropping or like whatever, it's like, it's just color guard.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Like, so what if you you messed up or you failed or you did whatever? Like, it's okay. Try it again. Yeah, try something different.

SPEAKER_03

My old manager talked like that about our job, too. She's like, This is just a job. We aren't saving anybody's life. Like, it's fine. We don't need to get stressed out about this. Yeah. And I was like, I love that. I love that we're on the same page about that. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02

Most importantly. Yeah. I often say, like, you're not curing cancer.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Nobody's gonna die if you took an extra five-minute break. Actually, in the book, like, I mean, maybe we'll get to it later, maybe we won't, so I'll say it now just in case. But like, you know, he mentioned a story where like he was trying to push through like lunch, and the doctor said, Nobody's gonna die if you take your break. There are other people here, right? You know, so even doctors are saying that. And I was like, okay, I guess it's okay for me to think that too.

SPEAKER_03

Like, you will do better for everybody if you go and get the rest and the nourishment that you need to do your job well.

SPEAKER_02

Right, right. But it can also be applied to this idea of experimentation. Feel free to try something new.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Right? Like it's okay.

SPEAKER_03

It's okay.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. So um that is play, right? So again, these are like three things that are like energizing, right? So the next one he mentions is power.

Unblock: Clarity And The Five Whys

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So for this one, again, he really does quote a lot of experiments and a lot of research that happened. Not that he did, but that other people did testing theories around different areas of power. And one of them was boosting confidence. And in this section, they did an experiment with different workout groups. And some got some positive reinforcement, others I feel like didn't get anything. But something that they noticed is when the going got tough, those who believed they could do it, regardless of their ability, were the ones who actually could. And this resonated with me because I have been doing a lot of fitness classes. I used to do classes virtually and like I would work out in my home. Um, I've done, I work out now on my own for weights, but I would go to the yoga studio for bar classes or vinyasa. And when I was doing those classes virtually during the pandemic through a different wellness program, and when I started doing these classes in person, the teachers I noticed myself gravitating to towards more are the women that spoke positively about what you were doing. They gave you sort of the why behind your strength training or why you're pushing this hard. Like there was one woman, she was so small, like stature-wise, but she was muscular. And she was just like, If you don't push yourself, how are you gonna get the gains? So if this feels too easy, go up to the next level. It's okay if you can't do all 10 with me, but if you do six at a higher rep, that is gonna do more for your muscles than you continuing to do the weight you can do for 10 or 12.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So like giving you that thing, and like she's being positive when she's speaking about it. As we've talked about, Sierra at Zen, I've would go to her bar class. It is hard, but she is really good about pumping you up and making you feel like you can do this. Your butt is gonna look great when you're done. You are so strong for doing this, and it made me feel so good. I'm like, she's right, I can't do this. She's making me laugh while I do it. And when I done, I feel I feel powerful and I feel accomplished, and I love that. And I will say, I don't think it hurt that both of those instructors were women of color.

Perspective With The 10‑10‑10 Rule

SPEAKER_02

Wow, that's great to talk about. Um, so I I think that's really important, right? Because you know, we talk about representation all the time, and it's like it's so important in like so many different aspects, but like hearing that you can from somebody that you know has heard similar things to you as you like move through life, right? Just hits a little different, right? You know, um, it's like my big gripe when I started teaching yoga was all the people that were like, you know, I quit my job and I just became a full-time yoga teacher, and I was like, Yeah, and then you do a little extra reading and you realize, yeah, they were making well like well into six figures for decades, and then they quit, but it's like you had$500,000 just sitting in your bank account, not even your savings, right? You know, yeah, so like, yeah, you could afford to that looks very different for me, you know. Um, and that doesn't give me this sense of belief that I can do it, right? You know, and I think that actually Ollie made a lot of mentions about like, okay, these things aren't realistic, so here's the realistic version of that, um, which I really appreciated. Um, but I have this highlight here believing you can is the first step to making sure you actually can. To oversimplify just a little, self-efficacy is psychology jargon for confidence, and taking steps to boost it is the primary way we can build our sense of empowerment in the half century since uh that part doesn't matter. So um I want to talk a little bit about self-efficacy, believing, and its intersection to systemic racism.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

So here we go. Yes. Bear with us for a second. Sure. Um I feel like not I feel it is a statement that this happens. You have people that are in power that actively push people down. Whether they actually, I truly believe that some of these people that are like wilding out out here don't actually believe all of these things. What they do believe is if they spout it and get enough people to do that, they will maintain their power. Um, I feel like, and it doesn't mean that they don't believe that we are less than. I think they just don't care. They're using it as a tool, you know? And I think that's why it's so important to have people that represent your a similar struggle to you, believe in you and lift you up. I think it's important to have groups of people that understand what you're going through and not just empathize, sympathize with what you're going through to lift you up, right? And I think that it's this is why so often you hear the story of parents telling their children you have to be so much better than the next person. You know, and it's in a way, I mean it sucks that these conversations have to happen, but in a way, this is like setting these people up. For their own self-efficacy, right? Like you you need to build yourself up because people aren't gonna build you up the way they build other people up.

SPEAKER_03

Or everyone is yes, I mean, and you're saying not everyone's gonna build you up the way mainstream white America is building each other up. Yes. Is the thing you're not saying.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. Um and yeah, I I I completely agree with that. I also agree that some of these people don't believe in what they're saying.

Get Started: Five Minutes And Small Wins

SPEAKER_02

I'd like to take it even a step further. I'd love to talk about within smaller communities, within these marginalized communities, how people are getting pushed down, right? So you've got people of color so many so often uh these communities of color pushed down. Okay, well then at the top of this group is men. Underneath that is women. Underneath that are people of the LGBTQIA plus community, right? So it's like even and even in the gay community, it's the same thing, right? You've got your white, like bro gays, then you've got like, you know, your like really hot bod gaze, and then it just keeps going down for whatever, whatever, right? Like it's always this hierarchy. So like even within ourselves, we're pushing each other down.

SPEAKER_03

Do you know something terrifying that I read on Instagram recently that struck me to my core because of the truth in it that I just never seen on paper was that men want power because they want to have power over other people, women want power because they want to have power over themselves.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

How horrifying.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. It's sorry everyone. Yeah. But I just think it's important, right? And so my question to bring it around is like, how do we how do we build up that belief system, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I think that people that find themselves being pushed to the bottom of the barrel are really good at A, building themselves up almost to the point of delusion, right? I mean, but truly.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean, yes, I don't think that what they believe is delusion, but I do feel like that's where it has to be, just to be on the same level.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I'm glad that you said that because I had a conversation the other day um about I I think it was as wild as the housewives. I'm not sure like what the detail was, but like I was like, these people are delusional. And then I paused and I was like, actually, are they? Because it seems delusional to me, but they're getting everything that they want.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So where's the there's no delusion there, right? So sometimes I think it's goes back to, I think we read about this in another book. I can't remember which one, but the fake it till you make it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know, sometimes you gotta be the one to fake it until it becomes real.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and I think another part of that, which segues us perfectly to the next section.

SPEAKER_02

She said, I'm done.

SPEAKER_03

Well, no, it's just surrounding yourself with people that do believe in you.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Like you need that because if you're not finding that at home, if you're not finding that in society, if you're not finding that at school, you have to find your people that believe in you and that believe you can do the things that you want to do.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I um I guess this is segueing us into the next section, right?

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Which is people. Um I went to dinner with three friends. Donnie was one of them. I might as well mention his name because he's gonna listen to him and be like, yeah, I was there. Um and we were all of us were having our own hard time, right? And we all went around the and it was like a cute restaurant, yeah, you know. So I think it was one of those we wanted to just like have like, I don't remember what the occasion was, to be honest. Okay. Um, but uh we all went around and talked about the things that we've been doing, the things that we're trying to do and trying to build for ourselves. We talked about things that we're struggling with, and each person got motivation from the rest of the group.

SPEAKER_03

Oh my god, I love that.

Sustain: Rest, Boundaries, And Balance

SPEAKER_02

And we ended that conversation. We ended that dinner like this was uh we all needed it, you know, and I felt so much better after we left that dinner. Oh my god, I was like, I think like more of those moments are important.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, I love that. That's so lovely. Like what a nice community and what a way to build each other up when you're not feeling good about something, or just having that sort of feedback from people you respect and care about. Oh my god, I love that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it was great. I just yeah, and like I think you can plan those things, but sometimes I I think it's better when it's not so planned. Yeah, when you're noticing that it's a need and then you're creating the plan from the need, not the like, okay, see you in one month, hype me up, please.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Um, do you know what's funny? On the flip side, he talks about energy vampires, which is a phrase that I learned from Asher and had never seen seen written in a book. And I was like, lol.

SPEAKER_02

This is so they are real. Vampires are real, they will suck the life out of you.

SPEAKER_03

They really will. I don't know that I ever really noticed it until you and I had that conversation, I don't know, maybe seven or eight years ago, where I just being extroverted, I'm like, I draw my energy from being around people, it fills me up. I have such a great time, but I kept noticing myself in maybe one particular social interaction just coming away feeling tired time and time again. And I was like, maybe I just did too much that day, and like I wasn't putting the piece together about it being around one person that was an energy vampire, yeah, and draining me.

SPEAKER_02

Mm-hmm. I um I used to go out with uh this one person, and it was fun, it was fun, and then like things kind of turned, and you know, I was letting it go, it was fine, but every time we went out, I would wake up the next morning not wanting to leave my bed. And there was a time where I was like, I can't do this anymore. I know exactly like it happens every time, even if I'm having fun at some point, it's still and that's the thing that's tricky about energy vampires, right? Like you could be enjoying at le like a good chunk of the moment, yeah, but you're not realizing that all the energy is being sucked out, you know? Um, and it's really important to check on that. How do you feel once you've left a certain space? How do you feel once you've left a certain person?

SPEAKER_03

Yes. Do you feel more full? Do you feel more tired?

SPEAKER_02

What did you feel like before you met with this person? You know, all of those are important. You have to start, and like the hard part is not noticing like who that person is to you, who the energetic vampire is to you. The hard part is the next step, which is removing that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, what do you do about it?

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_03

Which is a great segue to part two of this book, which is unblock.

Recharge Lists And Real Recovery

SPEAKER_02

Well, I guess block would be the well no.

SPEAKER_03

You said the second part is removing them. Oh yes, yes. Now you're unblocking.

SPEAKER_02

For sure. I was thinking social media like blocked.

SPEAKER_03

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02

Um, yeah, so like this uh the first part in this unblock is seek clarity. Um okay, so one thing for me, right? Um it's you might really want to do something, but you're still struggling, right? And some he talks about like feeling like it's a lack of motivation. Um but it's not always motivation that's the issue, right? Sometimes there are these actual barriers like financial constraints, family responsibilities, physical and mental health issues, you know. And I can say that one, I we really wanted to do this podcast, right? And like we were very excited about it. And the first year that we did it, towards the second half of the year, there were many, like multiple that we had to skip. And it's just like as much as I wanted to do it, I could not. Yeah, you know, um, and I think that one okay, apparently I'm thinking a lot today. Um one of the things that actually helped me personally with keeping up was when we decided, like, girl, we're doing this for fun.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

We're doing this because we wanted to spend more time with each other. We wanted to, you know, so now I'm taking the like, and this is a concept that like comes in later in the book, but where it relates to people is I stopped thinking at about it as something that I have to do, and I thought started thinking about it time that I get to spend with my friend.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Who energizes me.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know, so that like, oh, I mean, come on, girl. How many times have we gone on a walk and we both go home and we're like, I needed that. Yeah, okay, feel much better now, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Definitely.

SPEAKER_02

Um, which is another thing, and this is what I'm talking about. I feel like the things that we have been doing through this whole process are like everything that he mentions in the book.

SPEAKER_03

I know, yeah. I noticed that too, as he was giving examples of things that you can do. I'm like, Asher and I already do that, or that's something I've recently incorporated into my life. I'm like, all right, Nadia, patting myself on the back.

Keep Hobbies As Hobbies

SPEAKER_02

Yes, and like that goes back to there's one point in the book, um, and it's it's okay if it's out of sequence because it's not that important, but um, he talks about Zen, uh Zen Buddhism and like the beginner's mindset, you know, and it's like even though we know a lot of these things and we've already incorporated a lot of these things into our lives, right? Or these concepts or these ideas or what have you, it still feels really good to read it and absorb it like a beginner. Yeah, like I don't know what's happening because I'm getting new fresh perspectives. I can say, like, yeah, I do those things intuitively, but now I'm getting a little more of the why. So next time I do it, I can say this is to be more productive in this way.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know, and I think this will help me in the long run to kind of organize my thoughts, to organize how I want to move, how productive do I want to be? What does productivity look like? Is it the amount or is it the way you feel? Feel good productivity. Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_03

Definitely.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Something I liked in this section was he gave an example of the five whys, which is a technique that Toyota, yes, that Toyota, um, was famous for with his obsessive focus on eliminating errors in his factories. So something he would always say if something failed or if something wasn't working right in the factory, he would ask why. And then they would give an answer. He would ask why five times after they answered every time to sort of drill down to where it all started from. And Ali mentioned doing this just in your life. He mentioned doing it for his own company to make sure that anything they were doing, um, you know, any video topic they were doing, whatever it was, always aligned back to their strategy and goals. And he would check that by asking why five times. I love this just in everyday life to say, oh, you know, I you talk to yourself so much more than you really think. It's like, oh, I need to get this done today. Do you?

SPEAKER_01

Why you know why?

Align: 12‑Month Celebration And Daily Three

SPEAKER_03

And then like kind of drilling it down to figuring out where that really comes from. Understanding your own emotions. Why do you feel like that? Why do you feel like and then whatever your answer is, just like keep asking why until you get to that base. I I think that this is such a useful technique for everybody in so many different ways.

SPEAKER_02

You know what I love about that? It's very childlike.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Like that curiosity of just why.

SPEAKER_02

Just why, why? It's like that used to annoy me so much.

SPEAKER_03

Truly.

SPEAKER_02

And then when I, you know, I had this whole reframe about like how children think.

SPEAKER_01

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02

Um, and it really opened, I guess opened my eyes, or not opened my eyes, but I guess it really just allowed me to be so much more patient as a person. Um like when children are freaking out about something or super upset, I'm like, this is literally the worst thing that has ever happened to you. You know, and when children are asking why, it's because you really don't know.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And you are absorbing this information. You want to know everything. And I totally get that, you know? And every time you ask, it's like peeling back a different layer.

SPEAKER_03

That example of this is literally the worst thing that's ever happened to you, is what came to my mind when you started saying this part because it's true, it's like they would freak out and have meltdowns, and you're like, oh my god, get a grip. But it's like this is the worst thing that's ever happened to them in your entire life.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03

So, like that is how they're gonna react. But yeah, you're so right. They're just trying to learn and absorb. I mean, sometimes they're trying to be silly, and other times they are trying to learn.

SPEAKER_02

Sure, but even in that silliness, there's learning happening there.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, 100%, right?

SPEAKER_02

You're pushing buttons, you're look- you this is like communication. Yes, right? You're trying to see how far you can go. Absolutely, you know, but it's yeah, there's so much learning happening there, and I think that's a great tool to use just an everyday, like be annoyed with yourself for using it too much and see what you learn.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_03

The next section in this chapter is finding courage. Um, something I thought was interesting here is like when he he says when you catch yourself um catastrophizing in some way, and like you start spiraling, and you're like, oh, if I fail this test, then I'm not gonna get this grade. And if I don't get this grade, it's gonna affect my GPA. And if it affects my GPA, I'm not gonna get into this college. If I don't get into this college, I'm not gonna you just spiral down. He said, when you are in this moment, stop and really think about the 10 10-10 rule, which is will this matter in 10 minutes? Will this matter in 10 weeks? Will this matter in 10 years? Some of the things may matter in 10 minutes. 10 months or 10 weeks, probably not. 10 years, definitely not.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_03

And it just helps you put things in perspective and just really sort of get a handle on not letting yourself spiral like that and just staying focused on like what you're really doing.

Next Book And Recommendations

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I find that I only I usually do the like last part of that 10 10-10 rule.

SPEAKER_03

You really worry about 10 years.

SPEAKER_02

Well, especially when I'm talking people through conflict. Um, especially like when I worked with teens a lot, I was like, I know this sucks, but I promise you there's gonna come a time where like you are going to either laugh or completely forget about this.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So like it sucks right now. Yeah. And like just find solace in the in the fact that like it won't matter. It really won't. But I think this 10 10 10 rule is a great way for to have them use critical thinking.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, like keep things in scope, in scale, so that you're not blowing something out of proportion that really isn't that big of a deal when you think about it in these terms.

SPEAKER_02

So, what is it, 10 minutes?

SPEAKER_03

10 minutes, 10 weeks, and 10 years. Do you know what I just thought about? Neither of us had a lot in this section, and I think it's because we're both actually pretty courageous in our lives.

SPEAKER_02

Hey, okay.

SPEAKER_03

You have moved a lot. I moved to a big city, we left behind comforts, and through your moving a lot, you moved places that you set up home and you made friends, and like that was your home, and then you moved again. Yeah, you've also really branched out with your career and trying different things and you know, piecing things together and making things make sense for you that isn't like quote unquote traditional. I have been courageous with leaving jobs that I've been comfortable in, not just my current one, but in the past, like I really liked the people, it was easy, I it felt fine there, but like I knew I was meant to do more. So I left the easy. So I think like we don't have a problem finding courage.

SPEAKER_02

That's fair. Yeah, yeah. I I will say that like that is kind of like my MO throughout life. I've constantly done things on purpose because they they make they uh because I'm afraid. Like I was afraid of heights, so I did pole vault vaulting. Oh wow, I was afraid of bridges, so we drove to Key West.

SPEAKER_03

Um I'm not like that. I made these decisions because no other solutions made sense to me. It's like this is scary, but it's the right one, so I've got to.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I just like for me, it's when I'm afraid of something that I really shouldn't be afraid of, I have to ask myself why. Maybe it's just because you haven't been exposed.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, Toyota. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Fair enough. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_03

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02

Just one why though. Yeah. Now I'll add the other four. Yeah. Um but yeah, you're right. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03

Look at us. So the last section in this, or the last chapter in this section, um is get started. So there was something he brought up here that really resonated with me. Um, I feel like I struggle with this a lot, right? I actually don't do this at all. And once he I read it here, I'm like, this is something I want to start doing.

SPEAKER_01

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03

So he has you can focus on the small losses or you can celebrate the small wins. And he gives some examples. So it's basically like I didn't do X, but I did do Y. I didn't go for that early morning workout session today, but I did get an extra hour in bed, and I'm feeling more refreshed than usual. I love that. I didn't finish that job application today, but I got to spend time with my grandma instead. So that's a win.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. That reframe.

SPEAKER_03

That reframe because I get stuck on the first part. Like, I didn't do this thing, I should have done it. And I never think about what I did do instead, or whatever it is, you know, like I'm never focusing on the win, I'm always focusing on the loss. And I really want to stop doing that because I love this. This was those examples specifically. Um, the workout one, like, I would love to be a morning workout person. I just enjoy sleep. Like, I can't.

SPEAKER_02

You know what? And that is fine, right? You have to do that.

SPEAKER_03

I found other times. Yeah. But like that extra hour of sleep does help me start my day more rested. Yeah. And I instead of beating myself up about not going at 7 a.m., I should just recognize, like, but you wouldn't feel as good or you wouldn't be as rested if you did.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I think a lot of this is about becoming aware of who you are.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Right? Like, how do you move? What lights you up, right? What energizes you?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

What are the things that, you know, make you ready to move forward? You know, and what the what are the things that allow you to keep that energy up? That's really like what we're talking about here, right?

SPEAKER_03

Right. And it's not gonna look the same for everybody, and that's okay. So you can't try to compare your day to somebody else's or, you know, like the way you are productive to somebody else, because it's not gonna be the same.

SPEAKER_02

Right. So I used to do this thing where like um I would, if I'm laying on the couch and I really need to do something to get out of my procrastination, I'd say, okay, I'm gonna watch one more episode and then I'm gonna get up and go. Or I'm in 10 minutes at this time, I'm gonna get up and go. And it would work about 30% of the time, to be quite honest. And I think I'm being generous. Um so what I love here is the five-minute rule. So rather than saying, like, okay, I'm gonna sit here for this amount of time, because now I'm counting down the minutes until it's over and I'm not enjoying it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know, um, I'm gonna I'm gonna say, okay, I'm gonna get up and do this thing for five minutes.

SPEAKER_01

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02

You know, and at the end of five minutes, say, okay, do I want to move on or do I want to keep doing this thing?

SPEAKER_01

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02

Uh Ollie mentions that more often than not, he'll continue to do the thing. Yeah. And like, what is it, about 80-20, I think. And the other 20% was just allowing yourself to be okay with that.

SPEAKER_03

Right. At least you tried it for five minutes or did the thing for five minutes. There was a podcaster I listened to a long time ago when I was struggling with reading for enjoyment. Like I was just having a hard time focusing on reading before we started doing this podcast. And she took it a little more extreme where she talked about trying to find the time in her day, and she would put on a timer for 20 minutes, and she would sit down without her phone and just read for 20 minutes. And then when the 20 minutes was up, same thing. Yeah, she would either put the book down, or more often than not, she found herself getting so engrossed after that 20 minutes. She was like, Oh, I, you know, I can keep going. I can keep going for a little bit more. And that's how she incorporated it every day. 20 minutes or five minutes is a small commitment you can add into your day to do a thing you need to get done or want to get done, and then just see where it goes from there.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So now we're into the last section, which is sustain. So, how now that we figured out how our feel-good productivity works, like how do we sustain it? In the conserve energy area, he talks about you can master the basics of productivity, but you have to also master sustainable productivity. That's a thing that I think I'm still trying to work out the balance. I am very productive, but I will get to points where I get burnt out. And I feel like I'm getting better at listening to my body when it's been like, enough, girl, let's lay in bed. Yeah. That's okay too. Just lay in bed. And I feel like I feel so much guilt about it, but I'm getting better at not feeling that guilt.

SPEAKER_02

Mm-hmm. I told you, so I, you know, wasn't feeling well for the last couple days. Um and I took yesterday, which is Tuesday, off. Um, and I laid around all day, like actually laid around all day. You know, and normally I would have so much anxiety about that. And I'm not saying that there was none. Okay. Right. But I'm also saying it was much less than normal because I had, I said to myself, clearly you need this.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So like you might not be like, you don't have to be crawling on the ground, snot dribbling from your nose, hacking a lung in order to rest.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

We need to get rid of that right now.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And like this can show up in small different ways. He gave some examples about work, and I realized that is something that I do. So after those three hours of back-to-back meetings, I do have a to-do list I need to get done, but I'm like, I need to get up. And I get up and like I go start my laundry, or I just walk into the living room to see brighter light. I get up and just leave that room for like five minutes. Then I come back and I start my to-do list. And that is a way of being sustainably productive. You're giving yourself that little break, that little recharge. It's fine to take that five minutes, like you talked about earlier, and then get back into it.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_03

And then sometimes after I'm done with each task, I'm like, all right, now I'm gonna go change my laundry, or I'm gonna take a little break and fold it, and then I'll come back and do this next thing. So it's still getting done. I'm just not pushing myself to get thing after thing done.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Let's talk about it socially.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Hi, Nadia.

SPEAKER_03

I don't know why you're trying to attack me right now.

SPEAKER_02

But um yes. I am the king of let me play the scene for you. Hey, Asher, what are you doing on Wednesday? Oh, nothing. Oh, did you want to hang out? No, I'm doing nothing. That's what I'm doing. I'm doing nothing.

SPEAKER_03

Right. Um that is your plan.

SPEAKER_02

I, yes, I make plans to do nothing because sometimes I just need, I talk to people all day, you know? And sometimes I just need quiet. I need to just zone out and like not do anything, right? Or be able to, it's not about being on or off sometimes, right? Sometimes it's about like I truly want to like be a blob in my body. And what I mean by that, I mean like if I want to pick my nose, I'm gonna pick my nose. Right. If I want to scratch my butt, I'm gonna scratch my butt. And just truly not think about like who's looking at me or what I'm doing. You know what I mean? And those are like really, not really gross, but those are like gross examples. But like truly, we all know what I'm talking about, right? That space where like it doesn't, you do what literally whatever you want because you're not worried about what the person next to you is thinking.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Um, and sometimes you need that. So like I have to schedule those moments of like, I mean, I might just be a blob watching TV, or I might be reading a book, or I might be working on music, or I might just like whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's asher time.

SPEAKER_02

It's asher time. I'm in my own zone. You know, that's really important to me. Um, it is also important to like spend time with other people, and you're not getting my best self if I'm not doing that time for me.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that's fair. I think I think people forget when I have so many social plans, I don't see people during the day. I work remotely from home. I am on a lot of calls, I'm not participating in all of them.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, she's twisting her neck like crazy right now.

SPEAKER_03

Coming.

SPEAKER_02

I'm sorry, I wasn't coming for you that hard.

SPEAKER_03

We don't do our cameras on that often. So, like, I'm not getting people interaction that I'm used to when I worked in an office five days a week. Um, so I noticed after COVID, especially, I'm like, I need connection and I'm not getting it at work, so I need to make sure I have it because when I'm not having it consistently, I'm drained. Like that makes me feel drained and unhappy. So I do get naughty at time, but like I need her once a week. Other than that, like I give me all the social plans.

SPEAKER_01

Fair.

SPEAKER_03

It makes me if because I do need that to fill me up.

SPEAKER_02

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03

That's fair. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know, different strokes.

SPEAKER_03

Well, you already sort of touched on this a little bit, which is the next section talking about recharge. Um, so after time is how you recharge.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_03

And you talked about some of the activities that you do. I liked that he made a list, and I want to make this list. I haven't made it yet, so I will make it after this, and maybe I'll post on Instagram. We'll see. Okay. But he has a list that he writes of things I do when I'm feeling drained of energy. And he'll write, scroll Instagram, lie on the sofa, and search endlessly, endlessly for a random movie to watch on Netflix, order an unhealthy takeaway. So those are things he does when he feels drained.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_03

Done those plenty of times when I'm feeling drained.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. There's nothing. There is nothing better than ordering two meals from a service.

SPEAKER_01

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02

I, you know, I'm not gonna say it out loud because I don't know how that works. But yeah. Um nothing better than ordering two meals from a service, putting on some trash TV, and taking a little bit from one and a little bit from another, and having your own fucking buffet.

SPEAKER_03

That sounds delicious. Like, give it delicious and delightful.

SPEAKER_02

Um, Madison and I used to Okay, so this is back in Deland. This is like way back in the day. Where the only things that you could order were like pizza and Chinese food. Uh-huh. Right? We would order pizza. Well, there were three places in Deland that you could order from. We would order from all three, and we would just have a feast.

SPEAKER_03

I love that.

SPEAKER_02

It was so much fun.

SPEAKER_03

I really like that.

SPEAKER_02

Oh man.

SPEAKER_03

Um, but then his other list is things I do that actually energize me, which he has go for a walk, do some yoga or stretching, reach out to a friend and suggest grabbing dinner, heading to the gym for a quick workout. Again, I said the things on the list that I connect with. And he sort of posed the question like, what if when you were feeling drained, instead of doing the things from that list that you always do, what if you tried doing things from the list that actually make you feel better?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I was like, wow, what would happen? I would love to know.

SPEAKER_02

Uh yeah, I just hyped up the drain list, but okay.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I'll have to I'll have to give that a try next time. It really was interesting. And it made me want to make my own list um of what I could do that would actually energize me after days that I feel drained.

SPEAKER_02

For me, it's like crafts, or like I'll pull out one of my instruments and play on it for a little bit.

SPEAKER_03

I think for me it would be going on a walk and listening either to music or a podcast or something.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that too. That's good.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um oh, the thing that I wanted to talk about as far as recharging. So speaking of like things that we're doing, it talks about um finding creative hobbies and allowing these hobbies to just be hobbies. And not monetize that, not monetizing them and using them purely for entertainment purposes. Yeah. So like I'm gonna read myself right now. Um, I am notoriously bad at finding a hobby and deciding that it's my entire moniker, like that is who I am now. I'm starting a new business. Um and I think that was a big part of like my burnout moment. Yeah, you know, which I am still recovering from, but she's doing much better. Thank you for asking. Um so uh just reading that kind of made me go, okay. I mean, I knew it, but also like seeing it on paper was like yeah, like yikes.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, I do think that I am working really hard on like putting a lot of those aside. Um, as a matter of fact, somebody asked me about candles the other day, and I was like, I mean, I have some, but I'm not really making any more right now.

SPEAKER_03

Good for you.

SPEAKER_02

I was like, it's okay.

SPEAKER_03

That's not what your focus is at the moment.

SPEAKER_02

No, and when I want to make them, I'll make them. But like, that's it.

SPEAKER_03

I think that's important. Um, I have sometimes felt guilty about not trying to monetize the things that I like to do creatively because there are so many people in my life that have done it. And I'm like, should I be doing this too? And stop doing this nine to five thing that I don't really love all the time, and you know, try to branch out and do something I love and try to make that my work. But that has always been at the back of my mind, like, but would you enjoy it anymore?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And I think for me, the answer has always been no. If I start to put pressure on it, I wouldn't, so I haven't. But something that he did talk about that I thought was interesting was when you do let your mind relax. So like when you're in the shower, or this actually happened to me the other night when I was sleeping. I woke up and I had an epiphany. It's like your mind has just fine finally been able to relax. You go for a walk without music, you fold your laundry without listening to a podcast, whatever it is. Just let your mind actually wander, and solutions to problems will just appear. In the middle of the night, something happened with work that I was a little bit panicked about earlier in the day. I thought I'd let it go, but clearly subconsciously I hadn't. It was just back there. I woke up in the middle of the night for water, as I always do, and the solution came to me.

SPEAKER_02

Oh.

SPEAKER_03

And I was like, oh my God.

SPEAKER_02

Did you write it down?

SPEAKER_03

I should have, because I stayed, I feel like I kept going in and out, being awake and asleep, thinking about it, like, don't forget this. When I should have just written it down. I have paper and a pen next to my bed. I should have written it down, and like I wouldn't have been that probably wouldn't have happened. Did you end up remembering it? Yeah, I did.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. But it was just so interesting to me when I read that, I was like, I know exactly what he's saying. When I let my brain recharge and rest, the answers came.

SPEAKER_02

And that's what I was saying earlier about like just sitting there and allowing yourself to like think and then say, Oh, okay. Now instead of like searching for something to do at work, I just let myself be there and like just trail off, and I came up with something better than I would have had I been like furiously looking.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I love that. Well, that brings us to the last section, which is a line. So something he talks about here is this method of the 12-month celebration. It's a way that he says to convert your dreams into actions. And you just imagine 12 months from now, and you're having dinner with your best friend, and you're celebrating how much progress you've made in the areas of life that are important to you over the last year. What would those things be that you would want to be celebrating? And what would you want to be celebrating in the categories of health, work, and relationships? If those are the categories you're interested in.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_03

Those are categories I am interested in. There are probably some other ones I might want to throw in there. But then he wrote down, like for health, he wrote something down for body, mind, and soul. For work, he wrote down something for mission, money, and growth, which okay, money is in there because I was gonna say financial relationships, family, romance, and friends. And I thought that was so interesting. It's like if I am having a celebration dinner one year from now, what do I want to be celebrating in my life? So that's another practice that I want to try. And then he gave you a way to sort of incorporate it every day. So you're not just writing this down and on a wish and a prayer, it's gonna happen. He gave the he gave the um the goal that each morning you simply choose three actions for the day ahead that will move you a tiny step closer to where you want to be in that year. So for example, if you had a health mindset of like, I want to build more muscle this year, maybe you write down for health, I'm gonna do a gym, I'm gonna go to the gym for an hour today. If there's something that you want to do for work, maybe you say, like, I'm gonna make progress on this PowerPoint presentation I have to do for my boss by the end of a week today. If there's something for relationships, maybe it's like I'm gonna call my mom today.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Just three simple things that you can do each day that will further that get you closer to that 12-month goal.

SPEAKER_02

I think that's really nice because especially when you have so many spaces in which you're trying to be productive or trying to grow in, it can be exhausting to see, like, okay, there's so much to get done, right? But like taking those little tiny steps. Like, can I sit down and do all the things that I want to do for a two-hour block? No, I can't do that, right? So some days it might just be like for health, right? Some days I just do like a couple of like yoga flows in this small living room that has barely any space for me to move around, right? Um, some days I just I will be laying on the couch and then get up and just do a couple push-ups and then go back on the couch.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so maybe your goal that day would be like to have movement.

SPEAKER_02

I always make sure that even if it's tiny, there's a little bit of movement.

SPEAKER_03

I love that. That's such like an achievable thing. And you're not putting a lot of pressure on you.

SPEAKER_02

I would like to incorporate that more into like work and relationships, but you know, it makes me think, okay, well, I do it so I can. Yeah. So now I need to spread the love, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

I love this. Um, I thought that this was like all in all, just like really wonderful, attainable, and that's one of my biggest pillars of like growth, manifestation, productivity, all of that. Attainable goals.

SPEAKER_03

I I really agree. There were a few things that I called out to you guys that I want to do for myself that they felt easy for me to try. And I I'm definitely gonna try to do them. So again, this book was Feel Good Productivity by Ali Abdal. Um if you guys read it, let us know. But are we ready to talk about our book for next month?

SPEAKER_02

Um, are we gonna do the book or the recommendations?

SPEAKER_03

Oh shit, which one? How did we do it last year last time?

SPEAKER_02

It doesn't matter. We made it up.

SPEAKER_03

Um, let's do the book and then we'll move into our recommendations. Okay, so our book for November is You Sound Like a White Girl: The Case for Rejecting Assimilation by Julissa Arce.

SPEAKER_02

I'm sorry, I I laughed the first time that you said the title.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

And no, it's I just love the title.

SPEAKER_03

I know, it's so good.

SPEAKER_02

I'm like, hmm, I want to hear more, you know, which is exactly what you know the whole point is.

SPEAKER_03

We're gonna read it. I've actually read it before and I really liked it, but I want to reread it because it's been a while. I think she's a fantastic writer, so I'm excited for us to get into that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, same.

SPEAKER_03

Um, all right, so before we wrap up, we have our recommendations. So, Asher.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Do you have any show or book recommendations that you'd like to share?

SPEAKER_02

Um.

SPEAKER_03

Would you like me to go first?

SPEAKER_02

Yes, I would love for you to go first.

SPEAKER_03

Okay. So I think I talked a lot about Freedom McFadden last time, so I'm not gonna talk about her as much this time. But I do want to say I finished her housemaid trilogy and it was incredible. Highly recommend. Um, the last one in that is The Housemaid is Watching, which is the most recent one I read, and it was Fantastique. Really, really highly recommend that.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

I think that's the only book for right now that I'm that I was really excited about.

SPEAKER_02

Um, okay, this is gonna be wild, but let me go for a book and then we could do like shows.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Um I think the book that I would send out, and even if you read it, it might be time to read it again, Parable of the Sower.

SPEAKER_03

I haven't read that one, but you've talked about it a lot.

SPEAKER_02

I first, it's an amazing book. I just I really, really liked it. Um second, it's a little scary how similar it is to real life. Oh um, and it was set in, I think the it starts in 2024.

SPEAKER_03

Oh yeah. That's terrifying.

SPEAKER_02

It is very terrifying, but I say that to say that like you know, I don't know what is gonna happen in the future, right? I do think that we're at this point where we do really need to start thinking about like what if, you know, and like I I'm not sitting here being like a doomsdayer or anything, but I do think it's important to be prepared because some crazy things are happening out in this world right now. Yes, they are, you know, and everybody thinks that oh, it's somebody else's problem, it's somebody else's problem until it comes knocking on your door, and what are you gonna do? Right? So I say that to say that like in this book, they do such a good job of like showing how communities lift themselves up and how they create their own ecosystems. And I was having this conversation with someone um right after the election, um, and I was like, I do think it's going to be a time where smaller communities are gonna be very important.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, and I think it's just a nice way to see like how that works together, how like you know, people without resources act when when you know you get pushed up against a wall. Yeah. Um, how desperate people that are not used to not having resources act.

SPEAKER_03

Interesting. So it's like a nice little blueprint that we should all read.

SPEAKER_02

I just think you know, it's nice to know like what some of your options are.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02

I'll take my tin hat off now.

SPEAKER_03

So, what is your show recommendation?

SPEAKER_02

Um, actually, it's not a tin hat, because unfortunately. Okay, but positively. All right, all right. All right, I just think it's you know, okay. Um let's see, my show here we go. Y'all, my shows are back. My shows are back, Chicago med, Chicago fire, Chicago P. Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's been a couple of episodes now, and I'm so here for it. The drama is drama-ing, the medicine is medicine-ing.

SPEAKER_03

They have so many crossovers between all these Chicago shows, too. It's insane.

SPEAKER_02

I love it. I love it. I know you do. Get into it. It's just one of those where it's like, it's it's action, it's like a little bit of it's a little bit of everything, a little bit of drama, yeah, a little bit of comedy, you know, it's well something was shooting, like something filming, sorry, something was filming not that far away earlier today, and I didn't get a good luck.

SPEAKER_03

I'm like, I'm never sure if it's one of these Chicago shows, Mad PD's, whatever's, or if it's the bear. Oh, fair, or a movie.

SPEAKER_02

I was walking to my 7 a.m. class. This was maybe last winter or something, and there was a car that was smashed into the pillars of the 606.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02

And I was like, Oh my god, what happened? What happened? They were filming Chicago PD.

SPEAKER_00

I can't.

SPEAKER_02

I was like, y'all gave me a heart attack at 6 45 in the morning.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Like, that is so rude. Um, okay, so that the Chicago shows. Yeah. Love it. Um also, special shout out. I don't think that she listens to this, or it doesn't matter, but like, you know, when friends do cool things, it's awesome to shout them out.

SPEAKER_00

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02

Um so Shan, who is a musician that now lives in Nashville, um, she used to be, she used to work trade at Zen. She was on The Voice. That's all.

SPEAKER_01

She is on The Voice.

SPEAKER_02

Like this new season. And I saw it on her Instagram and I was like, well, now I have to watch The Voice. I love The Voice. So I've been watching The Voice, and it was cool to like see her do her thing up there.

SPEAKER_03

Awesome.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Um, my show right now, surprise, surprise, is the Great British Baking Show on Netflix. Okay. I love this show so much. The things people create.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Who are not professional bakers. Uh, it's incredible. They really make me inspired to try doing fun, interesting, decorative bakes. Um, so maybe you'll see some things this holiday season because I've really been enjoying it. It's such a good show.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03

And they're so nice to each other.

SPEAKER_02

That is the part that I love the most.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

There's no like snippy snippy.

SPEAKER_03

No, they're all so wonderful. They all leave, like, I loved everyone here. I'm sad to leave them. They don't treat it like it's a competition, even though it is.

SPEAKER_02

Is there a big prize at the end?

SPEAKER_03

They win a big like cake stand that's etched with them being the winner. I don't know if they get money or anything else.

SPEAKER_02

Part of the reason why it's so easy to be friendly, because they're like, I'm just doing this because I want it.

SPEAKER_03

Like, I genuinely love baking.

SPEAKER_02

Going back to hobbies. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_03

And then they're excited. One woman was saying, like, I've never been in a room with other people that love talking about baking as much as I do. I was like, that's so sweet.

SPEAKER_02

That is cute.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so it's a great show. Love it. Highly recommend. Okay. New season out now.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I love that. Okay, this is not an ad.

SPEAKER_03

I know. But we would like for it to be. Please sponsor us. Right. That'd be lovely.

SPEAKER_02

Gimme bake stuff.

SPEAKER_03

Well, we hope you guys enjoyed this.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Join us next month for You Sound Like a White Girl with by Julisa Arce. I love it. I love it. I know you do. And we'll see you guys in November. All right.

SPEAKER_02

See y'all next time.

SPEAKER_03

Bye.

SPEAKER_02

Bye.