You Can Need People And Still Be Whole - The Balancing Act by Nedra Tawwab

Hey Yall! Mercury was skating backwards again but we got it together!

“Respect my boundaries” can be a healthy sentence or a warning sign that we’re building a wall and calling it growth. We dig into The Balancing Act by Nedra Glover Tawwab and unpack what she’s really pointing to: healthy dependency, real connection, and the kind of boundaries that protect you without isolating you. Along the way, we share what’s been going on in our own lives, from rebuilding routines to the very real anxiety that can show up around money and control.

Subscribe, share the episode with a friend who’s doing everything alone, and leave a review if our book talks help you. What’s your default when life gets hard: anxious, avoidant, disorganized, or secure?

Transcript

Full Moon Chaos And A Lost File

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey, I'm Hasher.

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Hi Maria.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

And this is Brave People.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

Hey Asher.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

Hi Nadia.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

How are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Um, I you know, I am rested. I am energetic. And I am looking forward to future projects.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Yeah. I really thought about that one.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

Yeah, you did.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

How about you?

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Honestly, I'm also rested.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Okay. Come on, rested.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Energized.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

And just looking forward to the future, period.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

I love that. First, before we get too far into anything, let's talk about the energetic um atmosphere this past week.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

So not only was it a full moon, um, it was an eclipse, the blood moon, um, and then Mercury stationed retrograde.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

And when I tell you it was wild out in these streets, it was wild. Like the kids' yoga class that I teach, those kids were bouncing off the walls. I loved every moment of it. I had a great time. We were dancing, all sorts of things. But holy moly, were they like energetic? Um, we are recording this for a second time because the first time we recorded it, my computer just flatlined. Yeah, um, it unalived itself.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

And it did not save our file.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

No, it did not. So when everything came back um on a new computer, it's a very pretty computer, very sleek. That is one of the files that I lost. So cool. Yeah. But thank you. Here we are. Yeah, here we are.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Uh how's your how's your last week been?

SPEAKER_02 2:17

It's been good, honestly. I mean, like, it's it's had some ups and downs where you know what?

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Ooh.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Actually, I've had some things going on that I was getting frustrated with in my professional life that really wrapped themselves up nicely yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

So that all makes sense for me as well. Like having a crazy week that I was like, what is happening? And just feeling kind of disorganized work-wise, and not really loving that feeling, and just feeling a bit more grounded now to end the week, which has been really nice because I do not like that feeling. I'm I mean, nobody does, but a control freak especially does not like that feeling. Okay. Um, so yeah, I feel much more grounded now, and that's good. And I've gotten to, well, this is actually the thing that I did for myself this week.

A Small Wake-Up Time Shift

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Okay, let's get right into it.

SPEAKER_02 3:16

I have been getting up earlier to go to the gym.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

So I was already getting up, you know, before I needed to be online for work, obviously, to go to the gym, but it was running into when I wanted to be home and like at my computer, and it was starting to give me anxiety. Yeah. And I was like, just get up earlier, just do it. And I started to do that. I set my alarm for maybe 20 minutes earlier than it was being set before, and it made such a difference. I'm home now by the time that I want to be online.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

I don't feel stressed when I'm at the gym because I'm like, you were swimming in time, and I just feel so much better. Yes. And I've been getting the workout in, I'm showered, I'm at my desk eating my breakfast, going through my emails at the time that I want to be. And I just, it's been really nice to find that routine.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

And I feel good. I'm like, you got it out of the way. Like, you're done, you've done your thing for the day. Now I just want to get some steps in throughout the rest of the day, and like I'll feel good about this.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Talk about seasons, girl, because you remember when you're like, no, I need to sleep later.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Yes. Honestly, you know, spring is coming for us, and I'm grateful because the sun is in my room early in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

Amen.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

And it's really helping.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 4:33

I'm so ready.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

People laugh at me, but I'm like, I can't wait to naturally wake up at 5 30 in the morning because the sun is shining in my face.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Honestly, I've been waking up naturally at like 6 45, but ignoring that.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

That's fair. Yeah. And listen.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

But still, it's nice.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

I don't always get out of the bed at 5 30 in the summertime when the sun is shining. Yeah. But boy, is it great to wake up and be like, ooh, the sun is shining. Oh, that's so nice. I'm gonna rest in the sun for a little bit and take another little 30-minute nap, and you wake up and you're like, okay, time to get up now.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Yes. It feels better.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

Because it feels like you did get just a little extra time because you wake up feeling rested naturally with the sun, and then you just get a little bit of extra sleep, and then you wake up like, yeah, I'm fine now. I'm good to go.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Let's do this.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

I love it. I love it so much.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

What have you been doing for yourself?

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Um, I too have been getting up uh to go to the gym.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

Love it.

Money Anxiety And Scarcity Thinking

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Um, I don't go every day, um, but I try to go three to four times a week. Um, so that's been nice. Uh, other than that, I think, you know, there have been a lot of new things that I have purchased and brought into my life. And I've been low-key, high-key, stressed about money.

SPEAKER_03 5:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

And I've also been telling myself, you are blessed enough to be able to afford the things you need.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

We are having such a similar time.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

You know?

SPEAKER_02 6:10

Because I have been having that same scenario happening with me where I feel like I've talked about this before and offline, but where I come from a place of abundance in my life in every aspect but money. Like, I don't feel like I have to fight for things. I'm all about sharing. I don't feel like if I have it, you can't have it. When it comes to money, I come from a place of scarcity, even though it's not true. And when I look at my bank account, I'm like, it's okay, but I'm just like so scared about it that it keeps me in like a stranglehole.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

I I know. I know exactly what you mean. And it's like I get that anxiety about it, but then I'm like, you know, I have always gotten what I needed. And sometimes it doesn't look like it's there in the moment, and something happens, and you get just the amount that you needed to get that thing or to get over that hump.

SPEAKER_03 7:09

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

And this is not everybody's experience, and I recognize that, and I understand that. And I'm not saying that like I am swimming in money and still worried about it. I'm saying there have been times where I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna pay that.

SPEAKER_03 7:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

But somehow I figure out a way, it always shows up.

SPEAKER_03 7:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

You know, and I am blessed for that, and I'm gonna live in that light, girl.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Like good. Um, yeah, so okay. Um, we're doing complicated this week, but mostly good. So we'll take it.

SPEAKER_02 7:49

Depending on a high note, yeah. It's good. I'm loving it.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

I guess we should talk about a book on this book podcast.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

We should. So this month we were talking about the new book from our Queen of Boundaries, Network Lover Tawab. And it's called The Balancing Act: Creating Healthy Dependency and Connection Without Losing Yourself. So, as you guys know, if you've been following along, we've read both of her other books and we loved them and we love her. And we could not wait to read this one when it came out. Asher, what are your like overall thoughts about this book?

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Um, okay, so I liked it. I did. Um, I think it was interesting because her previous books, like we said, The Queen of Brown Boundaries, right? So she's talking about boundaries. And this one to me is like opening that up a little bit, right? And saying that, like, yes, you can have boundaries, but you can also have community, and you can also have connection. And here's how you can find that balance, yeah, you know. So um, I really loved it, and as she's done in her other books, I really love the examples that she gives, and not just the stories. I think the stories are great. I think the um what's the word I'm looking for? The not the examples, but we can talk about the examples, maybe I'll think of the word later.

SPEAKER_02 9:23

Or like the analogies, yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yeah, the um no, okay, but that's okay. So it'll come to me. Okay. Um, so the examples that she does where it's like this is the scenario, right? Here's what you could say. Um, and I really like the options that you get. And no, you don't have to say it just like that. This is just a clear, concise way. You can say it however, you put whatever spices, seasonings you want on it, you know, um, with respect. Yeah. But um, I I love that because it makes everything that she talks about applicable.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Yeah. Yeah, I really liked it because, again, I mean, she speaks in a way that's very easy to understand to anybody. And again, the way that she breaks down all of these lessons and learnings she's trying to share, she does it in such a accessible way. And I love the stories, but I do get too caught up in them. And I'm like, what happened? What is the resolution? Did they figure this out? You can't just leave us hanging like this. But these are real people and her patients who have obviously consented to be in this book, but I'm like, I want to know how this ended for them. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Like, where's the Netflix docuseries?

SPEAKER_02 10:41

Right. You know what? That is probably next for her because she's great.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Yeah, I don't know how many people you're gonna get to be on that.

When Boundaries Turn Into Blockades

SPEAKER_02 10:48

That's true. Yeah, that's true, that's true. Um, so I thought we could start off by talking about why she wrote this book because it is different and a pivot from her other books that are all about setting boundaries. And this one is about how to have healthy dependency on people. Um, I thought it was interesting that, you know, it it sort of sounded like she felt like people were sort of weaponizing the word boundary.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

To not state things that are boundaries.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

I think lately it's been a big listen, I'm all here for the mental health movement, and I love it. I think it's important. Continue doing the work, continue doing all of those things. And I think sometimes when people are you have somebody in your life that is advocating for you, that is like moving through processes with you, right? Sometimes I think we can go, it's speaking of balancing, right? We can go so far from from so far in one direction to so far in the other direction. So now that we're really talking about mental health, a lot of people are getting the this language and these terms that they're just using freely. And I think that sometimes we use those to a detriment, right? Yeah. So now you've got people saying, respect my boundaries, respect my boundaries. And it's like, no, girl, that's not a boundary, that's a blockade.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Like, you need if you're gonna use the word boundary, understand what you're talking about. Right. Like, this is not a boundary, this is just something you don't want.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

Right. That's the thing. It's like, it's just something you don't want to do. That's not the same thing as a boundary, right? And we need to learn the difference. And I feel like unfortunately, that's been true for a lot of therapy speak that has been weaponized when people just like don't want to do something or they want you to do what they want you to do. They just are weaponizing some of these teachings that are coming out of therapy, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:49

And not even just things like the words that they're using to wall themselves off, but a lot of people are like out here trying to diagnose each other. Like, how many times do you see, oh, that guy's a narcissist?

SPEAKER_02 13:04

I know, and like that's it's like you don't maybe, maybe, but maybe not.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

You don't know that, right? Maybe they're just selfish because they've had to be selfish all their life, right?

SPEAKER_03 13:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Okay, like at least back in the day we used to say, you need Jesus and call it a day. You know what I mean? I don't know what he can give you. I don't know what you need, but you need him. You know? Figure it out. That's between you and God. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

That is so funny.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

But am I wrong?

SPEAKER_02 13:39

No. No.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Um, yeah, like I just think it's important that I think it's important that we take the time to stop putting our perception on other people.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Our perception is ours. And if that guy is acting like a narcissist, or if that person is radiating out what you think to be a certain theory, like uh therapy term, a therapeutic term, then you could hold that in.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

You could just be like, I don't vibe with that person. I think I need to keep my distance. That's a boundary, right?

SPEAKER_03 14:19

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

It's like this does not feel good for me. So, like, you do you, but I'm gonna do me over here.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

That's a boundary, right? Not like you can't come over here, don't talk to me.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Yeah, yeah. That's too much. That's doing too much. We're still people at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Yeah. Um, so then now that we have sort of talked about like why she wrote this book, uh not it's not solely the reason why, but it is something she brings up just kind of to say like Yeah, and I think it's one of the things that just resonated with us like the most, you know, because we do notice that stuff out there, and it's like, oh, it's interesting that we went from this to this. It sounds like someone saying, like, knock knock knock.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

Hold on a minute.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

Right, you guys are taking it too far.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Yeah.

Secure Attachment In Real Life

SPEAKER_02 15:08

So in this book, she breaks it up into a few different sections. And in the first section, she talks about attachment styles, and this speaks to the way you are in different relationships, and for each relationship, it's going to be different. It it really is relationship dependent. So I thought we could chat through the four really attachment styles, and maybe if we want to talk about a time where we felt like we experienced any of them.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

So the first attachment style is secure attachment. So people I'm just kidding, Government.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

I hope you're not listening. Oh wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

Um, people with a secure attachment style tend to be more resilient in times of stress and exhibit more confidence, high self-esteem, optimism, and a greater sense of belonging. And then she gives some indicators of attachment styles like you have comfort in being alone, a strong sense of confidence, emotional emotional stability, healthy boundaries, and so on. I cannot say that I've really can think of a time I've truly 100% experienced secure attachment style in a romantic relationship.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

Okay. I was getting a little nervous, but I have felt it in my friendships. Okay, yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

That is the place that I felt the most secure in my attachment style.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

What about you?

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Um, I guess for me, like when I hear secure attachment style, I think the I think the first thing that I thought was you're that all the time.

SPEAKER_03 16:48

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

But then as like I was like diving into it, it's kind of one of those where like that might be your base, but you are also secure enough to experience the different types of relationship styles within that relationship. And that doesn't rock the boat so much that it breaks.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

Right. You're not going to like the outliers of the emotions, like you're able to self-regulate because you're like, no, I know this person.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then when you're ever you're experiencing qu uh characteristics of the other um attachment styles, you're able to talk about those and saying, I'm feeling this way about this, you know, or whatever it may be. Um I will say so. I will say there have been times in a few relationships where I've experienced um secure attachment style. I think currently I feel that way.

SPEAKER_03 17:52

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

I just I think it's hard for me to say like this relationship was a cure attachment style a secure attachment style. Um I also don't know that I've ever been in a relationship that started out as a secure attachment style. Yeah. I think it's always grown to that.

SPEAKER_02 18:14

Yeah, which I think makes sense. As you get to know that person better and have built up that trust and understanding of one another, you get there.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Yeah.

Anxious Attachment And Mixed Signals

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Yeah. Okay. So the next attachment style is anxious or fearful attachment style. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

Stop me in my tracks there.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

For people with an anxious attachment style, making connections is challenging due to issues of distrust, doubt, and ambivalence. So a few indicators of an anxious attachment style is fear of depending on others, phobia of commitment, persistent need for reassurance, challenges with nervous system regulation, and the list goes on. I definitely know when I felt this. It was in a very unhealthy relationship I had. It started when I was 18 and went into my early 20s, which was far too long. And it didn't start that way. I think prior to him, I had dated men, or honestly, boys at that point that were, I mean, we were children, so if I can call them meth.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

I was running around all these little boys. Oh, I just did the goofiest laugh, but okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Oh my god. Um, that like just never made me question how they felt about me or like where we stood or anything like that. He was the first person I dated that I was like, I don't understand what's happening here. And it felt very Jacqueline Hyde. I don't want to diagnose him, but like thank you. There is something going on there.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Um He needs Jesus, he he needed something.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

Or, you know, he needed a deity.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Truly, whatever, maybe something, yeah. Um, and like he would just go from being really great to really cold, and I didn't know what to do, and it really changed me. I feel like I started secure, like, yeah, this is gonna be fine. All my other ones have been fine, you know, like it'll be normal, and then it he just became somebody I didn't recognize, and I had a really hard time figuring out what to do there, and it really my nervous system is definitely not regulated that whole time. It was hard to anticipate who he was gonna be. So I definitely became anxious and fearful while we were together.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

I love this one. Okay, I don't. I was like, what? I don't. I'm just like, oh gosh, this is so sad. Like, um yeah. And it's wild that well. Um so I would say that I would say in my early twenties there have been uh several friendships slash situation ships slash slash discovering yourself ships.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Um that had me in an anxious attachment style. Um always like and I think you know the validation is such a broad scope because it's the vying for attention and making sure that like you're doing everything special so this person doesn't leave like all of those things equal that, you know? Um and just being like thinking that things are one way when they're not.

SPEAKER_03 21:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

So really. Being manipulated, being gaslit and not using that as a therapeutic term. Okay, let's talk about gaslit. You know something to be true, and someone is actively trying to convince you that it is not true.

SPEAKER_03 22:13

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Right? So definitely that was happening.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

Oh, for sure. And like we didn't know that word back then. Sure didn't to identify it as like this is what's happening to me.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

I had someone after seeing them for a year told me that we never dated.

SPEAKER_02 22:29

That makes me so angry.

unknown 22:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

Remember that one.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

I sure do.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Yeah. I wish I knew the term gaslit because I would have been like, oh, okay, I know what's happening here.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

But I was just like, this is am I crazy?

SPEAKER_02 22:46

No.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

Like, and I, you know, I went through that whole thing and was like, oh, well, maybe I just was like not clear and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, no. Looking back on it, I was like, no.

unknown 22:58

No.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

You know what happened.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

So that was fun. Um, and I think in that that phase of my life, I was very anxious, fearful attachment. Just wanted somebody to live.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

I know. God, I ache for our 20s. Yeah. And the people we were like our poor babies.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

It was it was something. But you know what? Not to be toxic positive, but I also but I'm gonna be.

SPEAKER_03 23:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

No, but like, I will just make sure, like, I understand that there were a lot of crappy things that happen, right? But like, boy, did we have some fun.

SPEAKER_02 23:37

I know.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

We had a good time. Okay. Times were bad. Okay. Like, oof. Okay, sorry. Go.

Avoidant Attachment And Fear Of Lock-In

SPEAKER_02 23:49

Oh my god. Uh so our next attachment style is avoidant.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

People with I'm doing it for all of them.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

Yeah. People with this relationship style may struggle to value connection with others. Making connections, however, however, is easier than maintaining. So a couple of indicators here is um minimized need, importance, or desire for relationships, difficulty trusting others, fierce independence, which we'll talk about this later. And that's just a couple, that's just a couple of them. After that relationship ended, I was 100% avoidant. Anytime, like, you know, a time was had. Anytime any of them tried to try to lock it down, I was like, I can't hold that.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

I can't.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

Anytime.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Okay, continue.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

Anytime any of them tried to lock it down, I was like, oh, that's so funny. I'll never see you again.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Right. I'm sorry, there's no lock here.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

There is no lock here. She shan't be doing that anytime soon.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

Saloon doors, baby.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

Yeah. And it just caused like a deep panic in me. Like, nope. I can I can't allow myself to be vulnerable. We cannot go there again.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

Because what happened to me before was traumatizing. Like, I'm out. Gotta go. Bye.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

And that was not great. And I feel really bad for the nice people that I did that to that did not deserve that. And I'm sure I've caused them some trauma. And I'm, you know, obviously very apologetic for that. But uh yeah, I was avoidant for a while.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Here's the thing: we are the villain in somebody's story. For real. And there's nothing we can do about that. No. We're all out here like doing our best. In a barrel trying to see the light, girl.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

We're just doing our best.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

And at some point you realize I can see the light from here. I don't need to step on anybody else. You know, like these analogies that you give I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 26:01

Like, where is this one from?

SPEAKER_00 26:04

I don't know. I just made it up.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

Oh my god, you're like an old southern man with these things, just pulling them out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

Um God, do you want to put some mustard on it or whatever?

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Okay, first of no. Stop the podcast. You don't stop, darling. How dare you? Okay, first of all, that's not even the phrase. And don't just throw around mustard like it's some basic ass saying. People say this. Okay, so for those of you that don't know what she's talking about, the phrase, you done? No. Try me. Um, the phrase is that doesn't cut the mustard. Okay. So please, I'm begging you, write in and tell this girl that I am right and this is a saying.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

Listen, Donnie and I both didn't know what you were talking about.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

It is a saying.

SPEAKER_02 27:07

Sure it is. We'll see.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Oh god. Anyway, what were you talking about? Can we get back to the book? I'm done with you roasted me, okay?

SPEAKER_01 27:27

Like.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

Oh my god, I can't breathe. Oh. God, um, did you have anything else to say about avoid it?

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Um, I uh I second everything that you just said. Um I will say that yes, I think mine was a little different. I think that after I experienced those relationships, there was a time, well, I got a couple tattoos because of some of those.

SPEAKER_03 27:54

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

Um, and one of the last ones I got was, well, um, in this time, right? In this phase, was we accept the love we think we deserve. And I got to a point where I was like, absolutely not. I do not deserve any of this. I do not need to feel this way.

SPEAKER_03 28:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

But I think I just went too far in the other direction, and I was like, I got me. It's fine.

SPEAKER_03 28:15

Yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Like, we fool fool me once, shame on you. Fool me three, four, five, six, seven times, I don't know what I was doing. But fool me eight, you will not.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

I mean, I feel like it's a natural progression from where we were before, being anxious, fearful, to then have hardened up and be like, now I'm just avoiding.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

It goes back to those saloon doors. You push them open real hard, they're gonna go in the other way real hard.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

I can't with you.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

That is science.

SPEAKER_02 28:47

Okay, with these sayings. Like, I can't.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

It makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

Sure does. It does.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Thank you.

Disorganized Attachment And Push-Pull Love

SPEAKER_02 28:54

All right, so our last attachment style is disorganized, fearful, avoidant. I want closeness, but I'm but I'm unsure how to create it, is a common statement from people with this attachment style. For the so the desire for closeness exists with constant thoughts about safety. So some indicators of this are separation distress, severe anxiety, low self-esteem or confidence, intense self-blame, mixed signals, and it can overlap with avoidant and anxious styles. I don't know if I've done this one specifically. Maybe, I'm sure that I have, but like I don't have any. And honestly, maybe while I was in that bad relationship, I displayed some of this as well. But I don't have like a clear example of it. What about you?

SPEAKER_00 29:45

I would say that after that in the early 20s, and then becoming the you know, going to the other side of the spectrum, I will say that probably when I first moved to Chicago, um there were several relationships where it was like just back and forth, back and forth, back and forth uh between the two. And it's just kind of all over the place. Um thinking this is great and then wanting to protect yourself. And you know, just um so to those people, I will say I am sorry. Um I tried my best with the resources I had, and that doesn't make any of that okay. And I hope you all are doing amazing out there. I truly do.

The Attachment Style You Have

SPEAKER_02 30:36

Agreed. Like I I second that. It's hard. Again, we're all just doing our best.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

So I have a question for you.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

What attachment style would you do you feel you display with yourself?

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Oh, interesting. I think secure. I think I've come a long way where again, like, obviously I have ups and downs, but they aren't wild in either direction. I'm able to self-regulate and just talk talk to myself and talk myself down, like you know that these thoughts aren't true, or you know, whatever it is, and get back to like equilibrium pretty quick. What about you?

SPEAKER_00 31:21

I love that for you.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

Um, I think that when we started this journey, I was definitely disorganized.

SPEAKER_03 31:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Um, and because we started doing all of this, I was like, okay, I guess we need to like figure this out. If you're gonna talk about it, girl, you better be about it.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

So um through all of that, I think that I'm definitely in a secure place.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

I love that. I'm so glad that this had that effect. I definitely think this strengthened it for me as well. And I also went on like my therapy journey while we did this to help.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

Yes, I want to be clear that this process helping me meant getting therapy, finding the right sort of resources, tools, medications, etc. Yeah, to feel this way, right? So, but it was it was the catalyst.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

Well, good. I'm so glad. It probably was catalyst for me, too, honestly. Look at that.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Come on, growth.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

I know.

SPEAKER_00 32:19

Shout out to the cure.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

Yep, love Kelly. Kelly's the best. I feel like we've shouted her out every time now.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

I'm just like a fan.

SPEAKER_02 32:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

Hardcore.

Fierce Independence And Control

SPEAKER_02 32:29

So something we both connected with when it was talking about the fearful, anxious, or no, maybe it was avoided, was being fiercely independent.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Ah, yes.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

And that's something we both when we read it in the book. So Nedra goes through each of those as well, like hyperdependency, independence, fiercely independent, and just gives you some breakdowns and some signs uh and ways to recognize which one of those maybe you displayed or have displayed in the past. And fiercely independent is one that I remember when we talked about this book, we both were like, Yep, that's something we both hashtag Aries. Yep. So fiercely independent, protecting yourself too much makes you emotionally unavailable. Not protecting yourself enough is codependency. Both are fear-based responses. So when people say, I can't depend on other people, they might actually mean, and I love that she does this, where she's like, This is what someone may be saying to you, but what it could actually mean, or like what you have said to people, this is probably what you really meant. And it she read me with these. It's it's hard for me to ask for help. Yep. Um, it's tough to admit when I need help. People have let me down, and I fear it will happen again. Yep. I don't want to burden other people. Um I believe uh no, I was taught to depend on myself, not others. So like she really went into all of that, and like I felt really seen in probably not the good a bad a good way. Asking for help is definitely something that is hard for me and has always been hard for me because I just I do feel like it's a burden to other people, and I don't know, like sometimes it feels embarrassing. I think it's really the vulnerability part for me that scares me from asking people for help, and I shouldn't feel that way. Everybody needs help sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

Yes, and I think that a lot more people are willing to help than you think are. For me, it is like um I'm not afraid to admit that I need help. I and I have said to myself, like both in my head and out loud, like, ooh girl, this might be the time that you don't get it all done.

SPEAKER_03 34:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

You know, like ooh, let's see. Um I think that my issue is I need help the way that I need help. And often people are just offering something that I feel like I don't actually need. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

So, like if I need to make something happen and I need somebody's help with that, it's like no, but I need like the help in this time frame, and I need it to look like this so it matches everything else, which really means, and amateur would say, is what he's actually saying is he wants to control everything.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

And that is correct.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

And the reason why you are outsourcing, right, is because you need help with that, you can't do it. Nobody's gonna do it the way that you're gonna do it. So you need to say to yourself, I am open to letting this happen the way that person is capable.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Yes, and I don't very often, I know, and that's the thing that she talks about too, which we'll get into a bit later when asking for help, is just sort of like matching the ask to the person. Yeah, which makes sense, and it's hard to do that sometimes, especially when you are trying to be in control of everything.

SPEAKER_00 36:09

Yeah, and I just I don't know. I I do know I am very particular about certain things, I'm very particular about a lot of certain things, you know? A lot of certain things, um, and I know that about me, and like I sometimes, often, I think that it's easier to do it myself. I literally said that today. I said that today about something. Well, you know, growth isn't linear.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

Yeah, I mean, I felt that at my last job, I was like unofficially training people that joined our team, and it's frustrating to train somebody that is joining your team because it's so much that you need to share with them, and they're starting from scratch. And while I want to have patience for that, because that's what I would want in that scenario, it does feel like it's takes so much longer because now you're trying to hand things over to them, give them the ability to actually be useful to you in the future, you have to slow down and show them how to do things, right? Or else you'll always be doing it yourself, and that's not the point of them being on the team, too. Right.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

And she talks about that in the book because I do think that there's a definite difference between like a workplace environment when things where things do need to be done a certain way, yeah, and like outside of that space where they don't actually have to be done that way. Like the example, sorry, were you gonna say something? Yeah. Okay. Um the example that she uses is that woman's birthday party.

unknown 37:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

And she wants to do her birthday party all herself, but she's stressed out. Yeah. And then so then she has, you know, the friend keeps asking and keeps asking if she can help, and then finally she starts planning it. At first, she gets mad because it's not done the way she would have done it, where she wasn't consulted and all these things, but it's like you didn't have the capacity. Yeah, your friend knows you, right? Let them just plan a fun vet event for you. Yes, enjoy it, you know. Um, and that's kind of how I feel. I want my party to look like this, yes, you know. Um, but also we can't deny the fact that a big chunk of that is because I've had to do a lot of things and figure a lot of things out, right? And I've had I have a support system. I am lucky enough to have a great one, you know, and that support system wasn't always in a place that was able to help the way that I I actually needed help.

SPEAKER_03 38:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

You know, and that's okay because you can't help. We're all going on some sort of different journey, right? So if you are on like the Carolina coast and I'm over here in Arizona, we're not gonna see each other, girl. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 39:12

You lost me on that one.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

I know, I was trying to push that one. No, what I mean is like if you're like driving in completely two different roads, yeah, you can't come all the way over here and help me out.

SPEAKER_03 39:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

And like, I can't blame you for that. You know? Um, you need to be over here figuring out like your own thing. Your own thing.

SPEAKER_03 39:36

Yeah.

Over-Considering Others And Real Friendship

SPEAKER_00 39:36

Um, and I think instead of, and this is kind of, I guess, more independence, rather than me saying, like, oh, but I need help, I was like, oh, that person's doing their thing. I guess I'll just figure it out on my own.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

So this actually leads me into the other topic that I really wanted to talk about because it struck a nerve with me, which was over considering others, which also was part of that story you were telling about the birthday party. I think it was actually a bachelorette party.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

And the bride was really concerned that the friend when the friend took over, that she was planning things that were maybe too expensive for the other girls and like she wasn't considering them, and blah, blah, blah. And like, she was just getting really in the weeds, and it's like, why first of all, why are you assuming that this girl didn't ask them what what they're comfortable with? Um, and you you have decided for them that they can't afford this thing that she is planning without knowing if that's true or not.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:33

And just like in your scenario right then, like you've decided they're too busy with their own thing to help you, so you didn't bother asking.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

And I've definitely done plenty of that too, where it's like, I'm making the I've decided it'll be a burden. I'm not gonna ask for help. And then when I talk about later with a friend, they're like, Why didn't you ask me? I would have helped you. We have made these decisions for them because we're over con being over considerate of their time, but that's not our decision to make. Just ask. If they can't do it, they'll let you know, and they'll let you know with love because they care about you, they're not gonna be jerks about it, so just ask them.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

Right. You know, another place this over-considering happens. If I'm seeing someone and down the road we stop seeing each other, and y'all say, Oh, I knew they wasn't shit. Why didn't you tell me then? Why did you not help me? The similar, like, I remember this happened to me in college where like I had gained like 40 pounds. It was like, forget the freshman 15, it was the freshman 40. I mean, listen, they all it it all went evenly around. So she was still courageous, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 41:45

Um I'm glad you had to let us know that.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

But the you know, the clothes won't fitting the way they was fitting. Um, and the new clothes was already changing. Um and then like I had, you know, I got on this health, I was like, okay, you need to eat better. Like you're just kind of like letting this is not about like a body image thing. This is like a you're not taking care of yourself situation, right? Um so then I had, I guess, lost some weight or whatever, and then people were like, Yeah, like you lost a lot of weight. You were like really getting. I was like, so you watched that whole process and didn't say, Hey, is it I'm not saying someone needs to come up to me and say, like, you fat girl.

SPEAKER_02 42:31

I was just gonna say, like, you want somebody to comment on your body? I feel like we have to do that.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

No, I don't want you to comment on my body. Like, yeah, and again, it has nothing to do with body. Anytime I think if you are close friends with someone and you notice a drastic change in a short amount of time, yeah, it is your duty to at least say, Hey, you good?

SPEAKER_02 42:53

That's so funny. Women have this thing where it's like, if your girlfriend gets bangs, you need to check what's going on at home. Is she okay? But it's a real thing. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

Because no one's just cutting bangs from a good place. Okay. Okay.

unknown 43:20

Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

I need Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 43:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Um, I think sometimes bangs look cute.

SPEAKER_02 43:29

Sometimes they do. And sometimes they are well thought out. That is a very small percentage of my hand. I just need you to. Fair enough. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:38

Um, I think for um for gay men it is the bleaching of the hair.

SPEAKER_02 43:46

Ooh, okay. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

You bleach the hair, and it's like you still take your meds booth. You good?

SPEAKER_02 43:55

Oh my god. You know? Not meds.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

Uh I'm sorry. Well, listen, I'm part of the community. Now I can say. No, I mean, like, just truly, like, yes, there are those things that people do where you're like, check on your strong friends, you know? Yes. Um, yeah. And those sometimes that is just people like wanting to just try something new and just it doesn't matter how it turns out, you just need a change. I totally get that. My point is not to like, and this is again finding that balance. You can't go up to someone that you know at work and be like, you go boo.

SPEAKER_03 44:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

That's a that's out of that's out of balance, you know for for me.

SPEAKER_03 44:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

But like, if you are close friends with somebody, you should be able to talk to them.

SPEAKER_02 44:48

I agree, and I feel like some people just try to blindly support what their friends are doing, and I don't think that that's being a good friend.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

No, no, and it to me that goes with this whole balancing dependence, independence thing. You should depend on the ear of your friend, your partner. Like that should mean something to you, right? You should have enough independence to know, like, I hear you, I absorb that, I still want to go in this direction.

SPEAKER_03 45:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

Or I hear you, let me revisit this and reevaluate because I value your opinion and your words. Because clearly, if you are felt the need to say something to me, it was important.

SPEAKER_03 45:32

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:33

Right?

SPEAKER_03 45:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:34

And yeah, it has nothing going back to the way it has nothing to do with body image, nothing to do with that. Like, I just to me, I wasn't okay.

SPEAKER_03 45:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

And I so, like, yeah, I did need somebody to say something to me.

SPEAKER_02 45:50

I have a friend from college who his group of friends sort of labeled him as the asshole. And he is the one that I'm still very close with to this day. Oh. And it's because he wasn't, he was being honest with them. Oh. And they didn't want honesty. They wanted someone to be like, yeah, bro, like that's so funny. Or, you know, whatever, just like hyping up whatever poor decisions they were making. And he was like, You should think about that more. He was that friend. So they called him an asshole for not just blindly going along with and encouraging their bad decisions for wanting better for them.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

Right. Yeah, I don't know where this blind loyalty has come from. I don't know either. But like, I will never subscribe to that.

SPEAKER_03 46:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:37

Ever. Now, I'm not gonna call you out in public.

unknown 46:41

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

I might pull you over to the side and be like, you tripping.

SPEAKER_03 46:45

Right.

SPEAKER_02 46:46

You know, like right.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

You like you gotta, you gotta chill.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

Right. In public, I will have your back. In private, we're gonna talk about what just happened.

SPEAKER_00 46:54

You know, I will say, like, I am not, I am not even that far.

SPEAKER_02 46:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 47:00

Like, I won't, I won't sit here and stand ten toes down for something that I know is. Oh, true.

SPEAKER_02 47:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

I will not do that. I I won't make it worse.

SPEAKER_02 47:09

I won't, yeah, you're right, you're right. I won't get involved in public either way. I'm gonna stay neutral, but then when we're alone, I'm gonna be like, that wasn't right.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

Right, yes. And like I my favorite phrase to use is don't ask questions you don't want to know the answers to. Because in that situation, don't involve me. Yeah, don't involve me because I'm gonna have to tell the truth. You know what I mean? I'd like to tell you the truth alone.

unknown 47:35

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 47:36

But if I gotta tell the truth in public, I mean Right.

SPEAKER_02 47:38

Don't ask it in public if you don't want the answer in public.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

And you know, I am a little petty that way, but like I think me being my absolute best self would probably say in that situation, like, I think let's talk about it later.

SPEAKER_02 47:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:53

You know, like I think we should um, and there might be uh something similar to that in the book, like just kind of oh no, I was reading, um, I was doom scrolling, and this inner uh Instagram post was saying different things you can say in the workplace um when you're advocating for yourself as like a you know a person of color, like you know, in in um corporate, right? And one of them was I think we need to move on for the sake of everyone. And it was like um, I think let's shift the tone, yeah. Things like that. And I was like, ooh, this is good. I need to like write some of these down.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

Yeah. Um I've had people say things like, let's take this offline. Like I've heard them say it in meetings. That one was like, let's just keep this moving for the sake of the group, and like we'll take that specific thing offline.

SPEAKER_00 48:48

Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

Yeah, corporate speak.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

Corporate speak.

What To Say When You Need Help

SPEAKER_02 48:54

Um, so we talked a little bit about how we have a hard time asking for help. How are you when somebody offers help? I know.

SPEAKER_00 49:06

I literally opened my mouth to be like, oh, I love getting help. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:10

And I was like, actually, be a liar.

SPEAKER_00 49:13

Don't do that. Don't do that to these people. Um I uh You know, okay, there's some of the things in that book that I've actually used before I read this book, which is great. Um, if somebody asks you for help and I know that I need help, but I am like, I have no idea what's going on, I will say, honestly, I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 49:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:38

I might, but I don't know what it is right now.

SPEAKER_03 49:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:42

Um, that is one thing that I am good at um as of recently.

SPEAKER_02 49:47

I am not, and I as I wrote read that, I like highlighted that. Like, that is something you need to say because when I do get overwhelmed, and people in my life are like, how can I help you? I feel too overwhelmed to answer. So I'm like, I don't know. Like clearly I need help, but like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 50:02

Right.

SPEAKER_02 50:02

But I didn't really, I don't know, think to say that to them. So I highlighted to just keep that in mind. Like, that is an answer you can give people. Like, when I do know, I'll let you know. Right. But I don't know in this moment.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

And let's talk about the growth journey, not fully there, because I never get back to them. So I want to be like, listen, I am not some pious individual. We still work.

SPEAKER_03 50:27

At least you're saying the right thing in the moment.

SPEAKER_00 50:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

Um, I will so and but sometimes when I do know what I need help with, I will tell somebody what I need help with. And if I need help a specific way, I will say how I need the help.

SPEAKER_02 50:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 50:45

You know, I need to do this, it needs to look like this. Um and then I I think I feel good about that.

SPEAKER_02 50:55

I mean, so that's stuff that Nedra said again, it's things that I highlighted. One thing that she said that I really liked and highlighted as well is I'm not sure what I need. Do you see any areas where you might be able to help?

SPEAKER_00 51:07

That one I liked. I was like, I need to use that one.

Matching The Ask To The Person

SPEAKER_02 51:10

I really like that. And she goes into talking about matching the ask to the person. So, for example, if there's something religious-wise that I need help with, like, I'm not gonna go to somebody that's not Hindu, I'm gonna go to my friend Priya, who is Hindu and who lives here in Chicago. She can help me with that. Instead of just like throwing out a blanket ass to people, like people may be willing to help, but they won't be able to do it the way that she could because she knows exactly what I'm talking about and what I need.

SPEAKER_01 51:39

Right.

SPEAKER_02 51:40

And then that sort of negates the whole scenario where like you've done it, but you've not done it right. So like now I still need to do it, and like I'm creating more work, and now you feel like I didn't appreciate what you did, and it gets messy, like really being specific, like you're saying about this is what I need, and all of that. Yeah, you know, I'm still working on all this, I'm getting better at asking for help.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

Same.

SPEAKER_02 52:02

But I love that she gives here are things you can say.

SPEAKER_00 52:06

Yes, they're like takeaways.

SPEAKER_02 52:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:08

So, like, you don't need to remember the entire book, you can just take those takeaways, and you don't have to read through the whole chapter again to remember what that's about. Yeah, you read the the line and you're like, ah, yes. Write some of them on your mirror, write some of them down in your notebook or your journal or your whatever. You know, have a little notepad. I like people carry paper all the time, like for no reason. Yeah, just to jot something down. You can see with something on it, you know.

When Asking For Help Works

SPEAKER_03 52:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:40

Um make it the screen for your phone. Um I will say that uh a couple weeks ago I was working on getting the last couple things out of my old apartment, and I had just the heavy things left. Um and I had gone to class, I had gone to yoga, and I was like taking a class, um, and a friend of mine was practicing next to me. So we chatted, all these things, and I like this whole time I'm thinking, I don't know how I'm getting this stuff out of the apartment, but I'm just gonna do it. So after class we kept talking, whatever, and we we were still I was still in the process of reading this book, and I was like, you know what? So I was like, what are you doing today? Um, and he ended up helping me. We ended up going to lunch afterwards, we ended up talking to somebody we didn't know and having a great conversation. So my whole day changed because I was like, let me just ask for help.

SPEAKER_02 53:40

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 53:41

And when I tell you I could not have done that by myself, I don't know what I was thinking.

SPEAKER_03 53:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:46

But um, he even said he was like, You were gonna do this by yourself. I was like, I don't know. I was gonna try, you know.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

I was trying to be fiercely independent, and I I asked for help.

SPEAKER_00 53:58

And we had a good conversation, it turned into a great moment of communication, of connection, you know, and I think that perfectly encapsulates what this book is trying to do. Like, you can be your own person, you can do and know what you need for you, and you can still be connected to other people.

SPEAKER_02 54:19

Yep, I agree, and I think that's a great example and way to end our discussion on The Balancing Act by Nedra Glover Tawab.

SPEAKER_00 54:28

Oh, yeah, okay.

Recommendations And Next Month’s Reads

SPEAKER_02 54:29

Nice. Well, before we get into our book for our books for next month, do you have any recommendations you want to share?

SPEAKER_00 54:38

Okay, if you're not watching The Traders, you're wrong. Um if you didn't watch The Traders, you're wrong. Wow. Um, such a great season. Um Peter's gotten me into Real Housewives of Potomac, actually.

SPEAKER_02 54:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 54:53

Which uh I listen to a podcast that talks about Potomac often. Um so I I just like their rapport, so like I just listen and giggle. But like now I'm gonna know a couple more things about it, so that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 55:06

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 55:08

Let's see. Oh, if you have Apple TV, I believe it's on, uh Palm Royale. Okay, it's such a good show. Um it's set, I it's set in like I think it's between I think it might be the 40s. Okay. Um West Palm Beach. Like old money, and it's this drama, and but it's like a campy drama. Cause um Kristen Weg is in it. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 55:33

I watched season one. I need to catch up on season two.

SPEAKER_00 55:36

It's it's good. Uh you know, I will say I like season one better. Okay. But season two is still very entertaining.

SPEAKER_02 55:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 55:44

Yeah. I I mean, obviously it's not I haven't finished it yet, but um I really like that show. Um I'm excited about the book that I picked, so we can talk about that a little later. That's my recommendation.

SPEAKER_02 55:58

Um that might be it. Okay. So um I also have an Apple TV rack. I've been watching Shrinking, and I really love it. I think this is like season four. It it's just so wholesome and just a lovely break from reality right now. Just like people being genuinely kind, having a community that's strong and tightly knit. It's got Harrison Ford, and he's fantastic, and it's just such a good show. So I'm on season four of shrinking. I also just started their most recent season of Bridgerton, which was a nice palette cleanse after watching Wuthering Heights.

SPEAKER_00 56:39

Oh, I didn't I need to, I want to watch that and I want to watch the new season, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:43

Yeah. I'm I'm interested to see what you think once you watch Wuthering Heights. I don't know if I would rack or not that movie, but Bridgerton is just it's very easy and it's also lovely and wholesome and it always wraps up in a nice way. So thank you, Shonda, for that.

SPEAKER_00 56:59

Right. Um, and then I will say to Wuthering Heights, the um the soundtrack is really great.

unknown 57:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 57:08

Charlie XX.

SPEAKER_02 57:09

Yes, yes, it is good.

SPEAKER_00 57:11

It's a really good one.

SPEAKER_02 57:12

And then I have two book recs that I've listened to that I really like. The first one is The Fire Keeper's Daughter. It's a YA novel.

SPEAKER_01 57:22

I think I've heard of that.

SPEAKER_02 57:23

And I was looking for one, I was just looking for an audiobook because I like to listen to books when I'm walking or working out or whatever. And I was scrolling through like what was available now on my Libby app, and I saw this one, and it had like I think um President Barack and Michelle Obama are their production companies turning it into like a Netflix series or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 57:47

They have a production company?

SPEAKER_02 57:48

I bel I guess so.

SPEAKER_00 57:50

That's cool.

SPEAKER_02 57:50

I think they are the ones that produced Michelle's documentaries too. Oh um, but yeah, so I was like, say less, let's check this one out. And I loved it. It's told from a Native American's perspective, like it's a Native American author, it's read by a Native American. It is really interesting insight into Native American life on reserves and different or reservations in different places. This one's based in Michigan. Um, it was really interesting. I really liked it. And then this one was like sort of a light one, but it had like a little bit of a dark twist at the end.

SPEAKER_01 58:27

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 58:28

But it's overall a lighter thing, and I highly recommend listening to it because the narrator does a fantastic job. It's called Vera Wong's Guide to Snooping, and then in parentheses on a dead man. The narrator does a fantastic job. It's written by an Asian American, it's read by an Asian American. She does a great job of nailing the main character who's like a 60-year-old Asian woman, like her accent, and just making her so lovable and cute and bringing her to life in a way that I'm not sure she would come to life on page. So highly recommend listening. So now that we've given our recs.

SPEAKER_00 59:07

Oh, I have another rec.

SPEAKER_02 59:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 59:08

Um, for books.

SPEAKER_02 59:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 59:10

Read children's books.

SPEAKER_02 59:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 59:14

Just any in particular, or I mean, I will have more as time comes, but I just think that there are some there is some beautiful young children literature out there with beautiful imagery and just the simplicity of the words and how they can still hit you, like, and warm you up.

SPEAKER_01 59:36

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 59:37

Um, there's one that I just came back from a primary school conference.

SPEAKER_01 59:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:43

So from pre-K to second grade. And um, there was one book that Aaron picked out that was about a donut shop man, a man that owns a donut truck.

SPEAKER_03 59:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 59:56

Um, and a bear that likes donuts. Oh, cute. And it's written by a um a visually impaired author. So they curated the the words to make it very understandable that you don't need to see the pictures. Yeah. And it was just, I it was beautiful, it was cute, it was just, it makes you feel good. And I think with so much like highbrow, just high, high-level thinking things happening around. You know, it is just so nice to the heaviness. Yes, it is so nice to just like take digest a little bit of simplicity, yeah. And sweetness, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:39

Yeah, I get that. Um, okay. Well then on that note, are we ready to talk about March?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:47

So we are doing something a little bit different for March, where Asher and I are reading two different fiction books. I love the gas. So well-timed and well done. Uh, so I am reading Marigold Mind Laundry. I do not want to mess up this Korean author's name, so I'm not gonna say it, but it's Marigold Mind Laundry.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:10

Okay. Um, oh, did you know? No, go ahead. Okay. What are you reading? I am reading The Slightest Green by Sahar Mustafa.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:19

I love it. Yeah. I'm excited that we're doing a little different of a format. We're reading fiction, and we're both reading books like we're into, so I think it's gonna be a fun discussion next month.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:30

Were you not into the books that I picked?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:34

Anyway.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:44

Okay, well that's a great way to remember.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:48

It wasn't that. I just had already started reading mine and you started reading yours. Um, I'm excited to do this.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:56

Okay, join us. Yeah. Okay, we'll talk to you on the next time.