Tales from the Departure Lounge

#48 David Winstanley (Who's the man?)

• Andy Plant & Nick Cuthbert • Season 3 • Episode 48

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All eyes are on the university of Southampton as they prepare to open their Indian campus in August 2025. David Winstanley is the man making this dream a reality, so who is he? The TFTDL crew return to the airwaves on the day of the Air India crash, in a rare, new episode. 

We talk about cooking in India, the value of talking to each other, and the geological wonders of Japan - including how to turn your legs orange. Another love letter to the international education industry, tune in and feel inspired to take your next trip. 

Final boarding call: Kushima, Japan

This episode is sponsored by The PIE Live Asia Pacific event taking place on 29-30 July 2025. 

Tales from the Departure Lounge is a Type Nine production for The PIE www.thepienews.com

Andy:

We are rusty as We haven't done this for about six months, so bear with us.

Nick:

Welcome to Tales from the Departure Lounge. This is a podcast about travel for business, for pleasure, or for study. My name's Nick and I'm joined by my co-pilot, Andy. And together we're gonna be talking to some amazing guests about how travel has transformed their. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the journey. Welcome to the podcast.

Andy:

Today on the show we are joined by David Wind Stanley. He's the executive director India implementation at the University of Southampton,

Nick:

he's the guy responsible for setting up this, highly anticipated, India Compass for the University of Southampton,

Andy:

he's breaking ground

Nick:

space race, Ahead of international university brands landing in India

Andy:

out in the field. In a service department in Delhi.

Nick:

Yeah,

Andy:

he does explain what it's like to live in India, in this kind of expat bubble to a certain degree. I.

Nick:

he was preaching cookery classes and, embracing local culture, which then transpires to be, how fast you can get meals delivered to you, and whether you need a cook, a driver, et cetera.

Andy:

We rib him a little bit. We recorded it just after the Air India crash So we talk about that a little bit.

Nick:

Yeah, it was literally a few hours after that news broke, so we're all in a little bit of shock really.

Andy:

And then we ramble on in a sort of love letter to higher education. David is a sort of higher education lifer.

Nick:

There is quite a lot of body references in this one.

Andy:

Limbs.

Nick:

Orange Limbs.

Andy:

20 kilogram radishes.

Nick:

Tales from the departure Lounge episodes are a rare thing these days, so it's been quite nice to just, have a love letter to the industry and Japan, of course.

Andy:

always Japan., Should I do my outro?

Nick:

Cool.

Andy:

He's the man mountain on a mission to set up a UK university in India. Charismatic, charming, and sporting and impressive beard. Let's hear some tells from the Departure Lounge from David Win. Stanley.

David:

People are enormously welcoming. And quite inquisitive. They're like, who, who is this guy? Why is he here? It's really exciting. That also makes it really scary. I think we're quite aware that the spotlight is very much shining in our direction. We had to go then buy a towel to try and wipe off these really strange um, lumber legs that I had. Who's come back from Japan and said, it's, a bit rubbish.

So before we get into the episode, a quick thank you. for me. Many of you have been listening to the back catalog of our episodes and they really are a love letter to the industry and I think a lot of people need that right now. Um, we're gonna try and make some more. But in the meantime, we have the PI live, conferences, the 29th and 30th we're in Australia for the Pi Life Edge Pacific. The 5th of September is the big celebration, the Pioneer Awards in London, uh, and then the 14th of October This year we're gonna be in Dublin for the Pi Life Island for the first time. So, uh, I hope to see you there. now let's get on with the episode

Andy:

David, welcome to the show. Great to have you on.

David:

Hello. Lovely to be here. Thank you very much for the invitation.

Andy:

The first question we always ask our guests is our final boarding call. If you could take them anywhere in the world, where would it be and why?

David:

it's gonna be Japan. And that's not just'cause that's where me, you and I first met Andy. Sorry, I'm being attacked by a mosquito. I think it would be Japan. I think specifically it would be Kushima, down in the south on Qsu Island. I think Japan in itself is one of the most beautiful, spectacular places. and so much variety and, and whether it's having a backside warmed by the volcanic rocks sitting in a lake, in Hokkaido or you know, down in, uh, Phu where you've got giant 20 odd kilo radishes growing in the volcanic soil and that sort of thing. That's just amazing. And we'd done two or three big holidays to Japan. I've done a couple of work trips, but, There's just so much to see and it's beautiful and it has the added, interest of as a geology graduate, gotta get that out there. Bit of a geek. So I think that's where I'd take people. And I don't think I've met anyone who's come back disappointed.

Nick:

That's so true.

David:

Who's come back from Japan and said, it's, a bit rubbish. I didn't like it. I think Japan just ticks all of those boxes if you want. Uber high tech, city center that you've got that at plenty. If you want remote nothingness, you've got that if you want, food and a really varied cuisine as well. I don't like, I don't like fish. So you can keep your sushi, but the rest of the food is just incredible and so many options and so much variety. And in, kushima, it's dominated by this, volcano in the harbor. And you can get the hotel, which I think is above the train station, and you just open your windows and there is a volcano and the sort of volcano, a bit like you, you draw in school. This. Fuji like cone, and we went and we're on the ferry going across, and as we were going across, it started erupting, just here it goes blowing its top. And that was, amazing.

Andy:

ge, As a geologist, you must have been trembling all over. This is, yeah, the stuff of dreams.

David:

they've got like a foot bath, that runs along the, to information center, and it comes up to your knees and you can sit on the side and just in geothermally, heated waters, it's really quite pleasant. But it turns out that whatever minerals are there in that, in that water, don't react well to sun cream. So I'm there covered in my fact, 50 obviously, because I'm very pasty and my partner turns around and he goes, what? What have you done to your legs and have bright orange legs from the knees down because whatever mineral interaction between the, volcanic waters and, you know, fact 50, so we had to go then buy a towel to try and wipe off these really strange um, lumber legs that I had. Um, quite, quite a look

Andy:

We've had a few people on the show talk about Japan.

David:

We went to Japan because, a friend of ours was really very unwell and wasn't sure how long he would live. He's still alive actually. And this back in 2014. So, had some life saving treatments in the interim. He said he wanted to go to Japan and we couldn't really say no. And he was like, oh, that's a great excuse. We'll come with you. We arrived into Tokyo. We'd flown via Abu Dhabi, and gone to the Grand Prix in Abu Dhabi, which was pretty cool. And turned up in Tokyo we were in a different fight to our friends, so we got there a bit early and decided to go for a pint because that's what you do. And we're the only two people in this bar. And my partner likes to, pretend he's gonna learn the language before we go anywhere, which rarely happens. And we're sitting at the bar and we ordered our two beers and we say, well,, this is the language learning opportunity. There's only us in the bar. The bombs looking a bit bored. It's like, oh, you know, if we are, if I wanna say two more pints of beer, please. How do I do that? He's like, two more pints. I said, no, no, no. In, in Japanese and then he poured us two more pints. I was like, no, no, no, I just wanna say it. And there were like 16 pints by the end of it. But

Andy:

Yeah.

David:

to say, we ne we never actually got to the bottom of what that was from him. But certainly had rather more to drink than we expected. But that first impression is big island. And then of course you get on a, a bullet train and you're going past, Mount Fuji and seeing all of these places that are so iconic. And they got me on a rollercoaster. I'm not big fan of rollercoasters either, but the fastest accelerating rollercoaster.

Andy:

oh, you went to Fujiyama,

David:

QI think this was. Yeah. And, and again, you know, you get on the, you get on the rollercoaster and they're about to press the button to get you going, and then they bow at you again. And then off you go and shot outta this, this place.

Andy:

But For those of you that haven't met David, I think it's safe to say like,, you are a man mountain. You're you're a big guy, aren't you?

David:

And I'm the shortest of my brothers Andrew.

Andy:

really What a family, uh, had. Did you find a bed you could sleep in?

David:

Not really, but then the, the, you know, the sort of Tami mats that are on the floor, or I think that's, is that what they're called? The futons essentially. It doesn't really matter if your legs are dropping off the end. The other thing we did is a cookery course, and I don't know how regularly you do cookery courses when you are traveling, but I would really recommend it just to get an insight into the culture. I think so much culture is imbued in food that

Nick:

Uh.

David:

to get a real feel of how people live

Nick:

We've had a few people say food tours and cookery courses are such a good way to experience a place. Since the last time we talked about Japan, I've read abroad in Japan, which is the English teacher's, diaries about living in Japan And now he runs a very successful, YouTube channel and i've also watched Shogun,

Andy:

Read the book when I was about 17, and that was when I decided I, I had to go to Japan

David:

And have you ever, have you ever experienced any of Yayo Kalama's art?

Andy:

Yeah. the the dots.

David:

We happen to be in Maximoto, which is her hometown, I think, when she was doing a sort of retrospective and possibly the greatest exhibition I've ever set foot in, she basically recreated her, her apartment, In the museum and on every surface had put dots, you know, like the sort of dots you put on a, an annual leave calendar back in the day, of wherever there's a red fluorescent dot, that's when I'm on holiday. So she'd covered every surface, the television, the kitchen, the toaster, everything with these, dots and then turn the lights off and put UV light on. So you got an understanding of where the outline of everything was, just mad, but so much fun. She's a wonderful woman.

Nick:

We, we ever talked about about the Team Labs Center in Tokyo that's so popular, that kind of immersive art installation where you go through these huge warehouse rooms of sensory art.

David:

I've not been.

Andy:

it's so cool.

Nick:

You are walking through almost waist deep water in a dark room and it projects fish into the water and so you swimming around you

Andy:

But it's interactive as well, so they move when you move

David:

Do you get a, do you get a pedicure

Nick:

I think for some people who don't like sensory things on their feet, it.

Andy:

Mm,

Nick:

water in the dark.

Andy:

there was a big sign there as well that said no sun cream for some reason. I dunno.

Nick:

look at that. Huge Coi. Swimming valley's just, it's just David's

Andy:

Why is everyone coming out with orange legs? Let's switch it into India then. So this is a good little segue. You are in India on your mission, helping to set up Southampton's campus There.

David:

One of the reasons I like traveling is'cause you meet people with different backgrounds, different cultures, different, and that's part of the fun of it, right? How do you operate in this place? People are enormously welcoming. And quite inquisitive. They're like, who, who is this guy? Why is he here? I sort of stand out amongst the crowd. And then once you tell them what you're doing, just fascinated and tell me more about it. I had that conversation at the immigration desk, coming in the last time. It's like, what are you doing? Who do you work for? Oh, and what does that mean? And what programs will you be offering? And can I have your business card

Andy:

Do you offer any scholarships?

David:

Yeah, exactly.

Nick:

I mean, we are talking to you 24 hours after the, this Air India crash, which obviously is getting huge coverage worldwide is terrifying'cause of all of us fly so much. and also has this incredible twist that one man sat in seat 11 a seems to have literally dropped out on impact and saved his life. what are people thinking and saying where you are in India?

David:

I mean, it's, it's hideous for, for exactly the reasons you articulate and a real horrible tragedy. I find Indian news media quite, unlike what we would have at home. Uh, so there's lots of, AI reconstructions and all this sort of stuff, which I find difficult. It's a huge country, but everyone knows someone who lives in that part of the country. Uh, so there's always that sense of people, concerned and, and waiting to hear from people. I've had a barrage of messages from people checking if I'm okay I'm in Delhi. I'm a long way away 800 kilometers away or something to register. But of course, we fly in and out all the time. So, you can see why people are concerned. But yeah, it's just, it's horrific. It's, it's stuff of nightmares. Um, thankfully rare occurrences of, of, of these sorts of horrendous accidents, but. You know, and then you're like, well, it's, it was a Dreamliner and they're relatively new. And, all the sort of things that, that come in when people are looking for a reason and looking for a reason that, and then actually could have been any of those flights with any of those people. And I think, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's horrible and, and you know, our thoughts go out to, to everyone affected.

Andy:

an airline consultant on the radio yesterday, said that, at any one time there's around a million people in the air.

David:

Yeah.

Andy:

Incredibly tragic. Um, but as you say, incredibly rare as

David:

And, and the remarkable story of the seemingly soul survivor. I mean, that, that's just crazy. I mean, it's, it's bizarre.

Andy:

seat 11 A is gonna be an expensive seat for the

Nick:

It's gonna be the most popular seat.

Andy:

And, um, and, you know, keep it light, Nick. Fucking hell, uh, go

David:

certainly got me in a, in a cheerful mood.

Andy:

Wait to build up the guest. David, what can you tell us that's not commercially sensitive about your mission? I think people will be interested as what, what the hell are you doing in Del?

David:

it's really exciting. And we are, opening our campus in August. So we'll have, our first students enrolling, in that third week of August. We've got an exciting welcome program, planned for them. It's the first international branch campus, under the university's Grants commission rules. So as part of the national education policy of 2020. And it's gonna be really exciting and we've got a growth plan, over the next, few years We want it to be a proper university campus. It's gonna be teaching, it's gonna be research, it's gonna be knowledge exchange and enterprise. And to replicate, what we have in Southampton. We're really keen on doing that, on giving the experience and quantity of education that students will get in the uk. But of course here in India, in Delhi, NCR, which is something people haven't done before. It's really exciting. That also makes it really scary. I think we're quite aware that the spotlight is very much shining in our direction.

Nick:

It feels a little bit to me, like the space race. It's, like you're in competition, with other universities. We just heard Liverpool are gonna open, it's this race to open and get these things off the ground.

David:

As a Liverpool graduate, I'm delighted they'll be joining us, obviously, next year, in terms of the size of the population and with, 350 million under 25 year olds or something like that, a fifth of the world's youth population or here in India, they are the future. And our vice chancellor's very keen on talking about,, if you're gonna be a global university, you've got to have a presence in India because the sheer size and scale and quality of what's already here. Meeting our alumni from India, I think that just some of the most remarkable, energetic and entrepreneurial. People that, that I've ever come across.

Andy:

It is an amazing demographic out there. There's a, stat bomb from QS that they, you know, they thought their, they need to open 14 universities a week to 2035 to be able to hit their know, their enrollment ratio. and there's 30 million STEM graduates in India, one in three is a STEM graduate.

Nick:

I think they have their own ambition to recruit half a million students including Western students by 2047

David:

It just blows your mind really, the sheer scale of it. And I think just in terms of what we taught there about attracting students in, we are really very keen on our UK based students coming and spending a semester here in India as well. And we see that as a really valuable part of the opportunity that our students get, spend some time here. And Indian students, may get to spend some time over in the UK as well.

Andy:

Yeah. I guess the question on everyone's lips is, uh, are you doing yoga?

David:

No, I, I probably should do yoga. I have some, uh, long standing injuries that would probably benefit from some yoga. But finding time for yoga amongst, opening a campus, is quite a challenge. And actually just spending somewhere cool enough so that you're not literally dripping his face. It's 42 today, I think.

Andy:

That is hat. The next section is called any laptops, liquids, or sharp Objects. So David, is there anything you have to take with you or do you have any travel hacks or advice for fellow travelers?

David:

So when I think I'm gonna pack light, I don't, and I end up panicking and then shoving in an extra three t-shirts and five shirts and everything else. And I just end up with the world's biggest enormous suitcase. What did you describe me as? Andy? A man mountain, or something like that. You know, once you get a pair of my shoes in a boat pack, that's pretty much it, right? So packing light is not a thing.

Nick:

I think we need to clarify here, how much time are you spending in India and in what size trips? And are you living in service apartments or

David:

So I'm here for six months, and in an apartment. So I do have a washing machine, but I'm talking more generally, you know, wherever I'm going. I've got the prospect of of a one next week, which is really exciting because. I can just literally like a bus, I'm just getting on a plane and going somewhere and then getting on a plane in the evening coming back. And that'll be exciting.'Cause I hate waiting for luggage, but I nearly always have to,

Nick:

are you acquiring stuff here? How many pairs of silk pajamas have you got?

David:

uh, that's a very personal question. The answer is zero, there's really no need for pajamas, frankly, in India, in, in the summer. Um, nobody needed that image today. I think that,

Andy:

Surely there are, there is a need for pajamas in India. It's a, it's an Indian word.

David:

Yeah. I'm missing out on the yoga in the pajamas. I'm just doing it all wrong.

Andy:

Where's this cultural immersion you were talking of? Yeah.

David:

oh no, that's back to the food you see that comes into the travel hacks. You've gotta do, you've gotta do a cookery class.

Nick:

You are preaching cookery classes here, but how much are you cooking in your service department?

David:

that's an interesting question, right, because I'm not cooking that much, although that is the problem for tomorrow. Because I think particularly with, Indian food, which has such a huge amount of, spices and different ingredients, then building that up in a kitchen I think takes years. If you're gonna go from empty cupboards to everything you need to make the perfect biani, that's quite a task to fulfill. So, cooking so far hasn't been particularly, adventurous. But now we've done the cookery class, the, handmade rotis and parus will be flying out the kitchen tomorrow.

Nick:

This is gonna sound really ignorant, but are there even supermarkets in the way that we know them? Like we get all of our food from mega stores in an American style, but when I was in India, even mini markets as we know them, they just don't really exist. It's all kind of independent shops everywhere. You're not quite sure what you're getting or where to go. I mean, that's me as a tourist

David:

No, I think that's quite right. Really. There, there are supermarkets, you won't find a big out of town as the type scenario where you can get everything under one roof, and that can be quite, frustrating. There's some supermarkets aimed at the expats if you go to a modern bazaar or LaMarche or something like that. But even then, I don't quite understand their sourcing model. So you go in there and, and there's like a Chuck YouTube counter and you've got stuff that's Tesco labeled and stuff that Sainsbury's labeled, which I just find really weird. And, you know, how, how did you come across this supply chain? Uh, how long has it been there? And the other thing, of course, is that everything comes to your door in India. They pride themselves on the 10 minute delivery. So if you are on blink or, uh, blink I think is the main one to bring you groceries and it'll be with you in 10 minutes, uh, zamar and wiggy or bring your dinner. And frankly, and I think this is where you get to you are like, do I invest the time, energy, and cost in creating this amazing, ingredients covered in my kitchen? Or do I just bring better curry than I could ever dream of making that will be with me in 11 minutes? When you lean towards the latter

Nick:

Hmm.

Andy:

yeah, I remember years ago, I dunno whether it still exists. There was a, it might have been Michael Palin or another program, and it was describing the Tiffin network in.

David:

in Mumbai. Yeah.

Andy:

and, and essentially, you know, these guys are going out to work and then somebody, their, their wife, their mother, whoever was cooking them at lunch after they'd left. And then this network of people picked up these stacked stainless steel tins, took them on trains to their workplace to give them this hot lunch, and it was millions happening. This network of people just delivering lunch from home to office, which is

David:

And there's also quite a big, cultural thing about having your own cook. I don't have my own cook, but you know, I was talking to, a friend that I'd met and he was like, oh, I've been busy interviewing each day for a new cook. I was like, that's really interesting, because at home the thought of having a cook is reserved for. Well, I don't even know, I don't know anyone with a cook. Right. Um, and, and he was like, yeah, but, but I'm, I'm working really hard and I'm working really long hours and I work six or seven days a week. And so when am I supposed to cook? And she comes in and for two hours, you know, does her thing. And, and there we are. I've got amazing, beautiful food for the rest of the, the rest of the day on a daily basis.

Andy:

I think we in, I think we interview you in a couple of months and see what's happened. You'll have just been driven in by my driver

David:

my

Andy:

because my, yeah, there'll be someone over you, WAF wafting

Nick:

through the keyhole and meet to meet the staff.

Andy:

The next section of the podcast is called, what's the purpose of Your Visit? So why do you do what you do?

David:

Why do I do what I do? There's the big macro reasons, I've worked in higher education all my life. I'm not apologetic for that. I went to university and I never left. I've been to different universities, but I think universities in general are the most wondrous of places. And I think, particularly in the research context, that concept of creation of knowledge and sharing it, it's hugely important and on, on so many levels for, for people, um, that we do that. And I, I think, you know, I, I always reflect back to when I first started at Southampton, which was in March, 2020, which is quite an auspicious, moment to start any new job. And of course the pandemic was horrific and horrible and so tragic for so many families. But seeing a university like Southampton suddenly go into sort of overdrive on research and do things that delivered results against a. A, a global challenge that everybody was touched by in one way or another, in a time scale that was actually understandable, I think is really interesting. I think education brings people together and you learn about people, you see their different perspectives and doing the travel element of it is so valuable and so important because you understand what it means for people. And I have so much respect for the bravery of young people, particularly who just pack up all their stuff and leave the country for the first time my sort of substantive role at Southampton, which these days in includes student support and wellbeing and careers and employability and those sorts of areas, it always renews my energy in that sense when I meet these remarkable young people who are gambling everything really on, on this trip across to the uk where it's gonna change their life in some way. So, that's why I do it.

Nick:

there's been a lot of sector bashing recently. In the last few weeks I've been to University of Birmingham, UCL I'm going to Warwick next week. I've talked to people at Harvard heard from some really amazing academic and political speakers as well. And it really reminded me of just, what a sanctuary of knowledge universities are for the brightest mind, people who are way cleverer than me that really are gonna solve the world's problems and really have a lot to contribute. Universities are incredible places,

Andy:

I was up in. Edinburgh, it helped that it was a beautiful, sunny day. All the students are sitting out on the grass and it was just beautiful gothic buildings. And I sat outside there with a colleague and we were talking about our roles and, the problems that the sector was facing and just looking around what wonderful places they are and all the things that they achieve and feeling quite protective of them.

David:

I think we've gotta get better at, communicating what we do to, the public in general. Because so often we're seen as elitist or inaccessible or behind closed doors and all that sort of stuff. And, and, and that makes it really difficult because you then get stuck, in a box that is quite difficult to break outta and make it relevant for people.

Andy:

The last section of the podcast is called Anything to Declare. This is a free space for you to talk about whatever you like.

David:

Rarely am I left speechless.

Andy:

David Wi Stanley has nothing to declare.

David:

I would just encourage people to. Spend more time talking to other people and people outside of their, echo chamber, particularly in the higher education sector, some of our colleagues fly in, do their thing, fly out and feel they've got an understanding of a country or a place from, the Hilton bar, uh, of hotel chains are available. And I think this, and sometimes they come back for that scenario. Yes. Well, I've, I've been to such a place and, and I know it inside out, it's like, you haven't, you've got your Hilton points, but you don't really know a place until you go and. And visit it and see it and understand it. One of the things that's been difficult here in India for me is about, LGBT visibility. I live in Brighton. I'm so used to L-G-B-T-Q-I-A, issues being visible, people being visible and issues being spoken about and talked about. And, um, part of the culture and part of the way of life. So I think, learning about people and learning with people and just talking to people about their lives and how they live and what they do and why, and, and without judgment there, um, is really important and people should do more of it, we went to a, an elephant sanctuary down in agro. And talked to this guy and it was really funny'cause uh, he's dedicated his life to rescuing elephants from captivity in all of its different forms. From some of the most horrific treatment to, to even just being kept as pets.'cause elephants are not pets. And I was having a conversation with him and I was like, so how did you get into this? Oh, well, we started by doing some volunteering and he's always been really interested in it. He said he'd done some volunteering when I was at university and I said, oh, what did you do at university? Oh, engineering. Oh, okay. But that figures, I was like, and how do your family feel about this? He said, oh, they're disappointed. They're perennially disappointed'cause I'm supposed to be an engineer. That's the expected trajectory, right? I said, oh, he said, but he said, my dad did come and visit the sanctuary. I think we asked him, have they ever been and seen what he did? He said, yeah, my dad visited and he. He said, yeah, as a human being, I'm so proud of you. This is wonderful. He said, but as my son, I'm not. And I thought that's a real insight into, into, um, into how, you know, family dynamics work here, because the, the father had been overwhelmed by, you know, the wonder of this, this sanctuary. But still what it is, is son to go and be a, a, an engineer and, and do a proper job, if you will. But I think, getting those snippets, those insights, learning about people and humanity and cultures and everything else is, is really important. And putting yourself in a place where you are a minority, um, is a, a useful learning experience. And I think everybody, everybody should do it.

Andy:

Well you are, statuesque David, wind Stanley, you are, uh, now a minority in India, David, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. It's been great to have you on.

David:

Thank you for having me. It's been thoroughly enjoyable.

Andy:

We'll speak to you in two months,

Nick:

and the cook.

Andy:

and the cook.

People on this episode

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Andy Plant

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Nick Cuthbert

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