37. Back to the Basics: The Doctrine of Christ

This podcast episode delves into various aspects of life, Christology, and the significant relationship between Old and New Testament narratives, highlighting how they collectively point to Jesus Christ. The discussion starts with personal experiences at the Heritage Festival, evolving into reflections on parenting, and transitions smoothly into a deeper theological conversation about the doctrine of Christ. This discourse particularly focuses on the notion of Jesus as both fully God and fully man, exploring the Old Testament prophecies and narratives that prefigure and affirm Jesus’ divine mission and identity. Insights into the theological concept of 'double imputation' are shared, emphasizing Jesus' role in humanity's redemption. Moreover, the episode intricately explains how multiple Old Testament figures and their actions foreshadow Jesus' sacrifice, intertwining historical patterns and biblical prophecies to enrich understanding of Christology. Lastly, it challenges listeners to contemplate the symbolic importance of the younger sibling motif recurrent in the Bible and its connection to Jesus.

00:00 Kicking Off with Personal Updates and Festival Tales
00:03 Navigating the Heritage Festival: A Parent's Perspective
00:54 The Transition from Active Participation to Spectatorship
01:48 Exploring the Doctrine of God and the Trinity
04:26 Diving Deep into Christology: The Doctrine of Christ
05:47 Understanding Jesus's Two Natures: Fully God and Fully Man
08:01 The Significance of Jesus's Incarnation and Sacrifice
20:19 Connecting Old Testament Shadows to Jesus's Fulfillment
38:38 Closing Thoughts and a New Challenge for Listeners

Music used in intro: "Hard Answers" by JK Productions

Transcript

Adam: 0:00

Hey Adam, have you had a good week? It has been an exhausting week. We've been at the Heritage Festival.

Alison: 0:05

You are in the phase where you're still there following your girls around, right?

Adam: 0:09

Yes, and I've reached a new phase actually. This is, I don't know if this is a maturity aspect of it, but all of those same rides that I found as uh, A favorite of mine are for some reason, reason, um, uh, affecting me physically, uh, more so than I've noticed in the past. And so suddenly the fun parent who actually does ride all the rides. Is suddenly the, the parent who's going, I just don't think I can handle that right again. So maybe we should play with, let's go back to the little kid rides, maybe, or something less spinny. And your

Alison: 0:38

girls are getting bigger and bigger and what the rides you can't keep up. Yes. I feel like we talked about the heritage festival last year at this time. It's our local like hometown festival. Lots of rides come in for the week. We're on spring break for the weeks. Our kids are just bugging us to go to the festival. And while you're following yours around, we, we have started to drop Andrew off this year. So. No, a middle schooler. And then we have a senior in high school. I don't know where she is, how she does her own thing, but, uh, yeah, we're, we, Andrew has a phone and, and he calls us when he's ready to be picked

Adam: 1:09

up. That is the way to do it. It's revolutionary. You get an open house, a free evening and a childless

Alison: 1:17

life. We, we have, we go down there, get something to eat, and then we've like gotten caught up on some of these like Netflix series that we've just dreamed about watching. Yeah. We've

Adam: 1:26

actually watched them. Interesting. Well, I know, I know the grass always seems greener on the other side, but it makes me long for those days. I

Alison: 1:33

mean, in this case you should. No, I know, it's fun to be with the kids too and see. See their excitement. It's

Adam: 1:39

a sign that I just pray for rain tonight. No, I mean,

Alison: 1:42

I just got here, Adam, and it's sprinkling. Oh, sprinkling outside. So please Lord, there's hope for you. I hope it won't tell your girls, but well, so last time we spoke, we talked about the doctrine of God and we talked a lot about the Trinity. And you brought up the fact that Jesus appeared in the Old Testament, and you challenged our listeners to figure out, um, what that looked like, where that was in Scripture. And so I, I took the challenge, as long as you promised to give us the answer the next time we met, and you said you would keep your promise. I did. Um, I think some of our listeners have already figured it out, because I noticed on our social media pages that they were answering, but go ahead and confirm for

Adam: 2:23

everyone. You know, I, what I realized is that You know, our listeners are way smarter than I give them credit for it because they figured it out so fast. So fast. It was something that took me a long time to actually read about. Um, but the, um, theory is, is that the angel of the Lord is the physical, personal presence of, of Jesus pre incarnate in, in, uh, in the Old Testament. And there's a multitude of answers and reasons behind that. Now, I will say that there's other, there's very smart people who disagree with that. So, um, don't take that as like, you know, you know, I don't know. You can. Do your research. Sure. Read into it. That's what we want you to do anyways. Um, and, uh, there's some really fascinating, um, books out there. One's called The Angel of the Lord, um, that I highly recommend, um, but it talks about how, um, the, these same attributes that will be given to the incarnate Jesus when he is here in his earthly ministry are very much ascribed to, um, The angel of the Lord in the Old Testament. And so, um, the personal, visual presence of the word if we should say, the word in in, you know, in the visual world

Alison: 3:30

of Jesus. Absolutely. So it speaks to the fact that Jesus didn't begin existing when he was born on earth. Now that,

Adam: 3:37

that, that Scholars don't disagree with that, that Jesus has always been and always was, and, and we talked about that a little bit in the Trinity, but there are some false doctrines or false religions out there that would claim he was part of Jesus, of God's, um, creative works, and we don't believe that. We believe that he is. He has and always will be. So

Alison: 3:56

you used the word incarnation when you described Jesus. Um, and we know that when Jesus took on flesh, that was his incarnation. And so when we talk about Jesus appearing before that, we're not saying that he took on human nature. We're just saying he appeared, um, so that he was seen.

Adam: 4:14

Yes, he was the visible, uh, in a way physical presence of, of God. In this earth pre his incarnation which his human nature exactly what you said. Yep. So

Alison: 4:26

today so that leads I'm glad you gave the answer because today we're talking about Christology or the doctrine of Christ, which is just what we believe about the person, work of Jesus Christ. So the fact that you were able to give us that answer leads right into our topic for today's podcast, which is Christology. And so if I were to give a statement of belief to kind of help our listeners understand some of that, central absolute truth that we believe about the doctrine of Christ. It would be that Jesus is truly God and truly man. He's two natures united in one person forever.

Adam: 5:05

Yeah, I agree with that. I think, and it's important. We should warn you that this is a very highly technical, um, like the Trinity was highly technical, uh, area of study, uh, that we're going to try to condense down into a, an approachable, you know, uh, less than an hour long podcast. But it is, um. Necessary, uh, that we would believe in these two affirming or that we would affirm in these two natures. Um, first John, uh, chapter four tells us that, that it's essential ultimately that we, we must believe in Jesus's humanity alongside his divinity. Um, In order to, uh, fully accept, um, the work of his atonement. Yeah,

Alison: 5:46

absolutely. And so, some of the things, uh, because that can be mysterious when we think about Jesus being two natures and one person. And so, um, just to explore that mystery a little bit, um, I want to talk about what those two, what it mean, what it means and doesn't mean for Jesus to have two natures. So, his two natures are his divine nature And it's human nature and they are one in person without mixture. So it's not like taking yellow and blue and making green, you know, taking God and man and making Jesus. Like it's not a product. They, they remain, um, exclusive without mixture. Um, and without division or separation. He isn't half God and half man. He's, fully God and fully man. And he's always existed. But there was a moment in time when he was born of the Virgin Mary, when he took on flesh and his incarnate nature was added to his divine nature. And since that time that his, um, incarnate fleshly nature was added to his divine nature, it's never been taken away. So in other words, um, the moment that Jesus took on flesh, He became all man and all God, and he, he remains all man and all God today, um, in

Adam: 7:10

heaven. I think that's an important distinction to make too, because, um, during Jesus time, there would have been certain, um, myths, um, of the time that had taken on their own religions, and there even in the midst of the Roman culture, um, where their deity, their great high deity, would come and turn himself into. Um, like Zeus, for instance, is at one point, I think, turned himself into a bull. And it's not that God had to turn himself into a man. There was no, like you had said, there's no, um, subtraction. It's only an addition. It's an acquisition of his human nature upon his divine nature. So he doesn't change in a sense of any bit of his, uh, his, uh, godly nature. But, um, only that he adds on to it a human nature to it.

Alison: 8:00

Exactly. And I was, as I was preparing for, um, our podcast and for the, the study that the ladies and I are going through on Wednesday nights that I'm teaching as well. Um, I came across this idea that there are two states of his incarnation. And I really like this because, um, I think it's true. But the author that I was reading, he said that there's a state of humiliation, which is the state of Jesus's human nature during his life and death in that he experienced natural limitations. Um, common infirmities and everything that we experience, um, as humans with respect to, um, like, you know, spatial limitations. He couldn't be in two places at one time, you know, during his state of humiliation, yet he was without sin. He hungered, he thirsted, and he got tired. So he experienced the common infirmities that humans experience, yet he was without sin. Yeah. And then, um, Now he's in a state of exaltation, and that is his resurrection, his ascension, his return, and his reign. Um, and he's currently the head of the church, and he, um, he hasn't appointed anyone else as head of the church. He's currently reigning, um, as head of the church, fully God, and fully man. And I think that, uh, Philippians 2, 5 through 11, really kind of sums that whole, um, um, Idea up. It says in your relationships with one another have the same mindset as Christ Jesus, who being made in very nature God did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage. Rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness, and being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death. Even death on a cross. Therefore, God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name that had the name at the name of Jesus. Every niche should bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledged that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Um, and so I just really like thinking about the fact that he. Through his life and death, he came and he humbled himself. He was in a state of humiliation. He limited himself to, you know, common infirmities and physical limitations, but now he's still existing as a man. but he's And I think that that's important because, um, the fact that his human nature still remains reminds me of what it says in Hebrews four, that I have a sympathetic high priest, um, that he still, he's still retaining this human nature. And although he never gave into sin, he's still sympathetic to my temptations, my needs, my emotions. So

Adam: 10:49

when you say that his, uh, human nature still is intact as well as his divine nature, um, post resurrection and in his exaltation, would you say that that, that, uh, takes form in a, as a physical, um, form, or would you say that at his exaltation he, he was no longer physical, but, um, non physical back to

Alison: 11:08

I think that he sits in a physical form still, and I think that we see that through his ascension, because he said he was going to come back just the way he went, and he went in his physical form. Yeah,

Adam: 11:21

and even post resurrection, he has this little Bible study with his disciples and Luke, when he's sitting down eating like boiled fish, and he's explaining and opening up how the Logos, how the Word, Uh, is in the, uh, God's divine aspects, uh, throughout the old, the scriptures of the time, the Old Testament, Hebrew scriptures, uh, how they demanded that he would, um, uh, perform, uh, what he had just performed, which was ultimately the death, burial and resurrection. Yeah. And soon to be ascension. But he's definitely a physical being at that point, still in his physical being remains. Yeah. Um, even into his

Alison: 11:56

exaltation. And I think we, we're going to follow in bodily resurrection, um, in his likeness. Yeah. Um, and so I think, you know, it's central to the promise that we're going to be bodily resurrected in his likeness. I think he's, he was bodily resurrected and exists.

Adam: 12:10

Yeah. In bodily form. So I have a list of things, uh, that I've just jotted down. And these aren't exhaustive, but they're just, uh, a quick list. Uh, you've mentioned several of them, um, with regards to, like, proofs in the New Testament as far as, um, what the human, human nature side of Christ, humanity of Christ would look like, um, uh, some of which were, of course, like humanity, uh, he was born, uh, he went through the temptation of sin. He experienced, in Luke chapter 2, talks about both the physical and intellectual increase that's occurring throughout his lifetime. Um, he experiences hunger, thirst, fatigue, sleeps. He has somewhat of mental limitations according to Mark 13, um, where it is not for him but the father to know, um, you know, the times of these things that would take place at the end. Um, and then of course he would be tortured and killed. Um, and experience some sort of, according to Hebrew 5, uh, moral growth in a, in a way. Not that he was immoral at any point, um, but that, um, maybe his understanding in a human way and essence of, of moral growth, uh, what that, what that looked like. So, um, this is a very complex subject because how can you be fully God, but also, uh, have some sort of limitation to yourself and not know certain elements? And I don't claim to know all the answers to that. And I think

Alison: 13:28

part of it is that, um He, he didn't give up his attributes because he still retained all of the attributes of the divine. Um, but I do think he, he submitted his rights, um, as the divine, he humbled himself to obedient, even to death on the cross. And so, um, out of his love for us, he didn't, none of his attributes, um, his godly attributes, his divine attributes were compromised when he took on the flesh. Like you said, it was, it was an addition, not in any way a subtraction. Um, but I think some of his rights he willingly laid down for a time. Um, And one of the reasons it's so important, uh, for us to understand that Jesus was fully man and fully without sin, um, is because, um, Jesus didn't just die for us, he also lived for us, and we're really good about talking about how Jesus died for us on the cross and he paid the penalty for sin, and those things are true and crucial to the gospel, but there's a second piece of it that We ought to really place equal weight on. And that's the fact that, um, not only did we put our sin on Christ or he took our sin upon himself, but he put his righteousness on us. And so, um, there's a term that theologians used is used. It's called. double imputation. I know that sounds like a big word and you don't really like big words. Amputation? No, imputation. Got it. So imputation, some, some of our listeners, if they're accountants, they may be familiar with this word because it's actually an accounting term and it just means to apply to one's account. Um, and so there are two things applied to our account because of the work in person of Jesus Christ. Um, he takes our debt and we get his credit. So our debt is our sin. And the wrath from God that we deserved because of our sin. He takes that upon himself. And then we get his righteousness. Um, Second Corinthians 5 21 says for our sake, he made him to be sin who knew no sin so that him we might become the righteousness of God. So, um, I think it's important because it's, it's important that Jesus died for us, but it's equally important that he lived a perfect life for us because in living a perfect life for us, he was imputing his righteousness to us and then in dying for us, he was imputing the payment of our sin. And so, um, sometimes I've heard people say things or seen memes where it says something like, um, Jesus paid a ransom to Satan for my debt. That is not true. Jesus death did not pay a ransom to Satan. The payment was not for Satan. Jesus death satisfied our debt with God. Um, it satisfied God's judgment and wrath on our behalf. Um, it was not a payment to

Adam: 16:18

Satan. I saw this, uh, uh, quote by a scholar named Pennington, uh, he says Jesus deepens, explains, fills out, and reveals the true intent of Scripture, um, uh, as explained, as this guy explains, and ultimately what we see is that, um, when speaking about the nature of Christology and the nature, the, the incarnation, uh, into humanity, the deity side of God, uh, we, we, I have a tendency and need to, uh, pull most of those aspects from the New Testament, which will take these, um, uh, certain elements of Jesus's character and help, uh, kind of fill in the gaps as far as, uh, what that looks like to be fully God, fully man. Um, but, uh, because, uh, The word becoming flesh, this logos, this, the, the, um, God's wisdom, God's attributes of glory and his name coming, becoming flesh, like the New Testament writers will, will use, they're going to do this in the, throughout the lens of the Old Testament. And so there is a Christological nature in the Old Testament. Um, but, uh, in many of us, it through situations like prophecies being fulfilled in Jesus, as a as a fully as a man and into, uh, as as God himself. But there's also an aspect of this. Continuity in God's character. And so, for instance, this, uh, impunation, imputation, imputation, imputation. I like that word, um, was played out in a, in a previous, um, narrative, uh, upon which, um, uh, righteousness would have been credited to Abraham and his willingness to offer up his own son as, as his only begotten son, the words used there, um, uh, as a, um, And in response to, um, the ransom, for lack of better terms, the requirement that God would Ask of, um, um, Abraham. And of course, in his, um, faith and, and observance of what God had said, we see this credited righteousness and a, um, a substitutionary, um, substitute in the Ram that would be caught in the thickets. And so this is a picture and in a bit, I'll take, I want to take you through a bit of a picture throughout the Old Testament that would necessitate the Christology, um, aspect of Jesus. Um, but in a sense, what we're seeing is that Jesus is the culmination of all of these things. He's fulfilling these things and he's doing it on behalf of humanity. It's not that, um, God got to a point where he's like, you know what? Let's try this. What it was, everything was leading to this from all time. Um, and, uh, and then so in the doctrine of Christ, what we're seeing is a necessitation Um, of God to continue to fulfill that plan that he's been enacting since

Alison: 19:14

the start. Yeah, and I know you're going to take us through some specific story, Bible stories or Bible people that points to Jesus. So just to kind of introduce, I think, um, what you're referring to when you talk about the Old Testament shadow in Christ. Um, That Christ fulfills the Old Testament. Three of the offices in the Old Testament that God put in place to mediate for his people. It's prophet, priest, and king. And those were separate roles in the Old Testament. But Jesus fulfills all of those roles in his one person. Um, and so we're going to see, um, Um, that Jesus as a prophet, he is building his church and he's the head of his church and as a priest, he intercedes for us and as king, he reigns above all things and there are shadows, um, of prophets, priests and kings throughout the Old Testament who are going to, um, point towards Jesus. Um, and we see the fulfillment of all of those roles in the one person of Jesus Christ. Yeah. And so, um, I know you're going to talk about some of, some of the people in those roles in the Old Testament. But before we talk about those, I want to go back all the way to Genesis, um, and mention that Jesus is the second Adam, and you may have heard that before. I know you probably know a lot about that. Does that make you the first Adam? Yeah,

Adam: 20:34

not even close. I wasn't even the first Adam that my wife, uh, had dated. Oh, really? Well, now I'll need to hear that story. She had one only other relationship, and his name just happened to be Adam. So I'm Adam 2. 0, but not in the same category. You're the better Adam.

Alison: 20:47

I'm the better Adam. Yeah, that makes sense. So, so sometimes we, we refer to Jesus as the second Adam. And so if you've heard that, um, and you know, well, that's true, but maybe you don't know exactly what that means. Um, it, it means that, um, Jesus, the different, Jesus came to do what Adam failed at. So the difference between the first Adam, the first man ever created, and the second Adam is disobedience versus obedience. So just like the, the last Adam actually succeeded in his appointed task at every point where the first Adam failed. Um, and it's really explained in scripture in Romans 5, 11 through 13. It says more than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we now have received reconciliation. Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, being Adam's, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sin, for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. So, um, So, again, Jesus is the better Adam, the second Adam, because he did what Adam, the first Adam, could not do. He lived the perfect life. And so, through Jesus being the second Adam, his death provided innocence for us, and his life provided righteousness for us, and it fixed what the first Adam got

Adam: 22:08

wrong. Yeah, if you think about it through patterns and structures within literary devices, what you see is a bookend. You see the first Adam who will Who will be tempted, um, at the base of a tree. Um, this tree is going to lead to death. And what Jesus is going to do is hang up on a tree. Um, a dead tree specifically, which will lead to life and he'll be crowned with the very thing that will be given, um, as a, uh, result of that sin, which was the thorns and thistles, um, in which Adam would work the ground, um, for, and he'll be crowned as king of the Jews, you know, uh, with, uh, with that particular crown. Um, and so every aspect of what Jesus is doing is, is he's relying on, um, That, um, that tree, uh, the, the knowledge and the wisdom, um, of the father above rather than, um, choosing to do things his own ways and that will lead to, uh, you know, salvation and a fix from that curse and that, that separation that took place. So long ago. Yeah. So now

Alison: 23:07

that I've mentioned Adam from the Old Testament, why don't you take us through some other Bible people? I mean, I feel like really point

Adam: 23:14

to Jesus. Just to lay a foundation for this slightly is that I had mentioned that Obviously, there's multiple layers when it comes to looking through the Old Testament with regards to Necessitating who Jesus was and some some notable verses for instance would be Um, uh, which I'll talk about the Genesis one in a second, but Psalm 110 Uh, verse one says, the Lord says to my, uh, says to my Lord, sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet. Um, this is talking about the divine authority and the exaltation. It's going to hint at something more than just the humanity side of things. Isaiah 7, 14, the virgin's going to conceive and give birth to a son and you will call him Emmanuel, God with us. Isaiah 9, a child will be born and will be called mighty God, everlasting father, prince of peace, Micah. 5 2, Bethlehem, Ephrathah, out of you will come for me one who will be a ruler over Israel, whose origins are from old and from ancient times, Zechariah 12, 10 says they will look on me, the one they have pierced, and Daniel 7, 13 14 says one like a son of man, Who has given authority, glory and sovereign power, all the nations and peoples will worship him. These are just a handful of, of, of a multitude of verses, but when you start to look at that, it's going to discuss. Both the need for his human side and the need for God himself to be, um, the one who's exalted and, uh, and, and taking care of this problem. But, what I wanted to take you through was, um, another aspect of how the Old Testament is working and how it's going to necessitate, um, Jesus and not just necessitate Jesus, but very, very specifically and and mind you, this is I have a picture that I've drawn that's a little easier when you're looking visually, or maybe it's not. I don't know. It might not be for them. So, um, just try to follow along as best you can, because what I want to try to display is how certain elements of, um, uh, Old Testament narratives that we've heard over and over again, they will take each of these elements and some, some of them will inverse them. Invert the patterns, um, that they've, that the previous stories would give, um, and when you begin to, to compare and contrast each of these elements, what you'll start to see is a picture unfold. And so starting with Genesis chapter three, verse 15. Let me

Alison: 25:42

just pause you for one second. Sorry. I thought it might be helpful if we take a picture of this image, can I just tell listeners that we'll put that on our social media page so that as you get into this, if they want to just push pause and pull up, or maybe you don't even have to push pause, just go over to our Facebook page, Biblical Bites with a Y, uh, And maybe you can look at this image while Adam

Adam: 26:04

explains it. It is color coded. If it makes any sense to you, I'll be surprised. But, uh, as you pay attention to the colors of the names and stuff, you'll see where I've kind of, um, combined them all at the bottom. It'll make way more sense. I hope

Alison: 26:17

that didn't throw you off, but I wanted to invite them to do that so they could

Adam: 26:20

follow along with you. That's smart, because this is, it is going to be interesting. But, uh, Genesis 3. 15 is a very important passage when it comes to, uh, Christology. Um, and it is that in communicating with the serpent, um, uh, God would, um, make a prophetic, in a way, um, uh, declaration that, um, The serpent will have seed offspring. The offspring will be at enmity with the, with the humanity's offspring, um, for a long period of time until one day an offspring of a woman will come and crush the serpent himself. And so with that in mind, you have to read every biblical narrative asking yourself, is this, um, producing the seed of the woman who will take care of the serpent altogether? Or will these, like much of these, um, narratives, um, will these be, um, In a way, symbolic seat of the serpents. In other words, they've chosen like Cain to not rule the beast that is sin crouching at the door. Um, but they've allowed the beast to rule them. And so every narrative you read is kind of being filtered through that. And you get little, um, uh, quick hints at, Oh, is this going to be the one? You know, you get to Abraham and he's going to try to sacrifice Isaac. You get to David and he's, You know, this mighty king and man after God's own heart, but every single time they all end up falling short in some way. Well, when you start to notice that there's these patterns, um, just a few of these patterns, I'll give four examples here. Um, we'll start to reveal something. So in Genesis chapter 4, we have the Cain and Abel narrative. And the big picture version of this is that ultimately an animal was offered up as sacrifice. Um, but it would cost Abel himself. So, uh, an animal would be offered up. God would favor it, favor that, um, offering, but it would cost the life of Abel himself. By the time you get to Noah, we're going to see that Noah also builds an altar. This is another, this is the second altar that, that would be kind of mentioned here. Uh, and this is post Noah. He's on Mount Ararat, he builds an altar, he sacrifices an animal, it comes up to pleasing the Lord, God will make a covenant, um, uh, with mankind, not to destroy it with a flood again. So at this point we have Noah, and we have an animal would be offered up, just like Abel offered an animal, but this time it didn't cost him himself, so we're like, yay, good, okay, good, okay, we're moving on, but then you have the sins of the next generation, and it's terrible, and it moves on. It's, you're back in that pattern again. By the time you get to Abraham, who's going to build an altar as well, we just talked about it, um, this time, uh, because of something that Abraham did earlier in the story, it's, he's going to have to offer up something and it's going to cost him his own son. And so God will ask him, um, uh, to offer up his own son. Uh, it's going to cost him something because of the sins that he, he, he did earlier. But because he was faithful and listened, God would provide a substitute in an animal sacrifice. So here we go, we've got all these, we've got three already narratives, and we have an animal offered, we have some, it's costing something, um, now we've combined these things, at this point though, it's his own son that will be cost, it'll cost him, um, uh, and to be offered up, and now an animal instead will be provided by God as a substitute. So then when you get to Moses, and he's on Mount Sinai, and if you remember, um, the children of Israel at the bottom of the mountain on their own altar. And this altar has it has a golden, uh, uh, image of a, of a, uh, a bull that they're worshiping that they've created. Well, God's so, um, upset that he is going to wipe the Israelites off the face of the planet and restart with Moses himself. And what we're going to see is Moses will stand between God and remind him to remain faithful to the covenant, love, and loyalty that he's made by blessing the world through this people. So he's going to stand up and he's going to offer himself as a substitute if God's wrath would, could not be, um, uh, uh, atoned. Or he's going to go and make an atonement in his self, ultimately. And say, if you can't. Um, withhold from destroying these people than take my life basically instead. Um, so now what we've done is we've combined the, uh, aspect of an offering not just the next generation or the son, but he's gonna offer himself. So now we're looking at Moses like, oh my goodness, Moses is gonna sit there and instead of offering up his only begotten son or offering up an animal, he's gonna stand in place of God as an intercessor before God. Now when you look at all of those things, What you're going to start to see, and again, I'm sure there's a multitude more of these that you can go through, but this is just a snapshot. What you're going to see is that when it gets to Jesus, um, the offered sacrifice had to be, one, the seed of a woman, um, uh, who himself will be the intercessor. And, from God's point of view, will be offering up in faithfulness his own begotten son. He is the provided inverse substitute, um, of the, of, uh, Abraham and Isaac. And so you, you're basically combining all of these elements and then the, the biblical authors, the New Testament authors are going to take that and, and declare, Behold, this is the Lamb of God, uh, uh, uh, who was slain. Um, just looking at each one of these little patterns and how they just added a little par, or changed a little par, or inverse a little par, it's going to create this list of things that it's going to demand about Jesus. That he will both himself be offered, but also be the son, the begotten son. That he will be the seed of a woman. He couldn't just come as God himself. He had to come through the woman's seed. Um, uh, and, but he also will be the one who will stand on behalf of the people who need to be destroyed and as, as an, as the great intercessor. So hopefully that. Made any sense.

Alison: 32:18

So one of the things that came to mind when you were talking about that is, um, I recently saw r. c. Sproul made a comment. He's passed away During our time, but I read a comment recently that he made that said good theology leads to doxology in other words What you believe about god ought to make you want to sing about god ought to make you want to praise god And when you were describing the different ways that um these sacrifices, you know You Led up to the full picture, the full sacrifice of Jesus. Yeah. To me it seemed almost like a crescendo. Yeah. Um, leading up to the climax, um, you know, the true picture, the full picture of Jesus. In other words, like. We get this, this piece, um, like you called it, I think a piece of the puzzle, almost like we get this, this piece of what Jesus did for us, um, in Cain and Abel, um, where Abel gave a sacrifice, but Cain murdered him, um, as a result, he lost his life. And then we see, you know, how. Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son, although God provided a substitute. And so we get these little pieces, and they just crescendo up to the true Jesus, to the point where we both celebrate the true Jesus for all that he is, because we see that, um, None of the other stories fulfilled it fully. They all fell short. And so we celebrate Jesus because we finally have the fulfillment of the full story, but also because we recognize through all the ways these stories leading up to it fell short that He's the only way. Absolutely. That our need for Him was absolute.

Adam: 33:51

Well, that's a question that's been asked before, um, in, in different discussions that I've had is that, Like, why did Jesus come at the time that he did, you know, and ultimately I'm of the firm believer that all of the Old Testament is to prove that no matter which way that they tried this and no matter which system they inherited and tried to work through and no matter how many times they repented, um, it was never going to work. And so up until they had tried every single potential to fix the problem, then Jesus wouldn't be necessary. And so I think what has happened, what had happened throughout the Old Testament was that we're watching, um, um, Every facet of potential to fix this sin problem, uh, up until there were no other options, but for God himself to come onto this earth and, and to fix it for us. And I would

Alison: 34:37

say, I would agree with you a hundred percent and just add to that, that it wasn't that the Old Testament was convincing God that there was no other way. It was God's plan from all along. Old Testament is there to convince us. There's no other way to convict us. Yeah. Um, under the law to show us our need for Jesus, God knew all along that Jesus would take on flesh and that that would be the only answer he needed to send the second Adam. He didn't give up on, you know, his plan. Um, he, he provided a way through the second Adam to, to do what the first Adam could not do. And he knew he would do that all along. Um, and so the Old Testament shows us that he, he provided the only way as well, because Jesus actually calls himself that, the way, the truth, and the lie, that no one comes to the Father except through him. Um, and so I think that is really interesting, and I love that you have, you always bring in the Old Testament, because when we're talking about these Christian theologies, we often can plant ourself in the New Testament, and of course, Um, there's a wealth of truth, um, from the New Testament about who Jesus is and the person and work of Jesus Christ, but we can't ignore the fact that Christology, the doctrine of Christ, has, um, began at the beginning of time.

Adam: 35:52

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Well, it's the scriptures that Jesus would use to help, um, clarify, um, his, his, the, the way that he, uh, was going to, to work from the start. And so Uh, to me, I think it's an opportunity to figure out what, what do we do with all these really difficult passages that seem so foreign to us and, and to realize that upon. Psalm 1's meditation on a day and night and seeking and searching, you just get to discover in greater ways God's consistency, His loyalty to His, to the people and His covenant and love, and ultimately that there was no other way but for Jesus. And so it strengthens, um, my hope and, you know, ultimately reaching the crescendo point in what Jesus, uh, would do on the cross, and so. If it remained consistent all the way up in and through Jesus, then we know that what's still to come, we can have faith that it will be exactly the way that it's supposed to be. Yeah, because the truth

Alison: 36:46

is, the work of Christ isn't over yet. He's going to come back. And he's going to reign forever. And he currently sits at the right hand of God ruling his church. Um, and so, and I think that's a point, you know, and I wanted to point that out. Um, it's that Christ is the head of the church. Um, he hasn't appointed someone else during his time in heaven. He's still sitting at the right hand of God, uh, his church. Um, Ephesians 1, 22 says that God put all things under his feet and gave him everything. As head over all things

Adam: 37:18

to the church and Paul will make that declaration. It's no longer I, but Christ who dwells in me. Yeah, interesting.

Alison: 37:28

So I feel like I feel like I have a better picture of Jesus through what you've taught me today in all of the stories from the Old Testament.

Adam: 37:36

Yeah, I think, uh, I think, uh, we've, like I said, not done an exhaustive job, but hopefully, uh, A, uh, a bite sized job of understanding such a complex, uh, uh, thing as the doctrine of Christ.

Alison: 37:49

We talked about, um, you know, why are we doing this doctrine of, you know, doctrine series and things like that, because we do it normally. Um, even in Bible study, you know, we like to plan out in a book, and we're not going to spend, we're not going to spend the rest of our time doing a podcast together, you know, just picking on doctrines, picking out doctrines for ever and ever, but it's important to go back and to look at these doctrines because they're the lens through which we read and interpret scripture, the lens through which we read and interpret Bible stories, and how we can understand, um, what, how to contend for the faith. Yeah. Um, which is something that is super important to know what you believe so that you can stand for what you believe for sure. Yeah, so I'm so I'm glad we're doing this and going back to the basics in some ways to make sure that those. it's like building blocks or, or stable

Adam: 38:35

to build upon. Yeah. I'm, I'm hesitant. I kind of want to give them another challenge.

Alison: 38:41

Do it. I

Adam: 38:41

think they responded well. I don't know. I don't know how clear this one will be, so maybe you can help me clarify it. Okay, I'll try. We've not discussed this beforehand, so she's, she's just as surprised as you might be. Um, but. Um, help, because my desire is, is ultimately to help people begin to recognize that, that the complexity of, of Scripture from the, from the start, Old Testament, very, very much so, uh, from on. So, um, in the Cain and Abel narrative, we see the, um, beginning of a pattern of the old, uh, the younger sibling favorite, highly favored, um, Um, uh, over the older sibling. This is a pattern that will continue throughout scripture in quite a bit of different ways. So how does Jesus fit into that pattern of the younger favored, um, and versus the older? Okay. So I got a stretch in your, stretch in your thoughts or your mindset, maybe a little bit in this one.

Alison: 39:40

But, uh, I have ideas. I have to pull a little bit of cultural

Adam: 39:45

knowledge. Yes. Now, I will, I will say, I will also say that there are multiple angles to the, to the, uh, uh, not just in the Christ angle. But anyways, uh, the younger sibling favorite thing is going to be, uh, Uh, in massive play throughout many different angles, but I can think of Jesus specifically.

Alison: 40:02

Yeah, where that plays. Okay, so you want our listeners to comment on, um, why the theme of the younger sibling being favored in the Bible points to Jesus

Adam: 40:16

more so how Jesus fits into the pattern. Okay. Okay. Maybe. Let's try that. Okay. If you've got questions, reach out to us on Facebook. We'd love to continue that conversation. Perfect. Uh,

Alison: 40:26

nothing else. We can just chat

Adam: 40:27

about it. Absolutely.

Alison: 40:29

Absolutely. Sounds good. All right. Well, you want to close

Adam: 40:32

this in word prayer? Absolutely. Let's pray. Father God, thank you for your time, uh, that you've blessed us with God, uh, for the word that we get to dive into God, as we are continually trying to dive deeper into who you are. As we go back to the basics of these, um, doctrines of, of our faith, God, I just pray that you are honored and glorified in that. God, you've given us a word to dwell on. Uh, God, that in that dwelling on that word, uh, ultimately helps us, uh, see a clearer picture of who you are and, um, that covenant loyal love that you have displayed from, uh, the start, God, and that the plan and how we fit into that plan. God, we're thankful for, um, the fact that you, uh, took it upon yourself, uh, to both be fully God, but yet come and become fully man as well, uh, God, so that we can have that righteousness bestowed upon us. Amen. God, we just ask that you'll continue to guide us and direct us, and we ask these things in your name. Amen. Amen.