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45. Acts 8:1-3, 9:1-30, 11:19-21 | Employed- God Chooses to Employ a Chief Sinner

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Explore the dramatic transformation of Saul into Paul in Acts chapters 8, 9, and 11. This episode delves into how Saul, a zealous Pharisee, becomes a cornerstone apostle, impacting the early church's development. The discussion also features an interesting office chat, memorable road trip stories, and insights into the name Ananias and its biblical significance. Join us as we uncover how Paul's experiences and God's consistent plan reshape the spread of the gospel.

00:00 The Transformation of Saul: Introduction
00:18 Casual Conversations and Office Banter
01:08 Vacation Stories and Road Trips
02:52 Saul's Conversion on the Road to Damascus
20:58 Ananias' Role in Saul's Transformation
25:39 Ananias' Graciousness and Saul's Baptism
27:30 Saul's Early Ministry in Damascus
28:11 Saul's Escape and Spiritual Growth
30:49 Biblical Patterns and God's Sovereignty
33:36 Saul's Introduction to the Disciples in Jerusalem
34:22 Barnabas' Encouragement and Saul's Time in Tarsus
35:13 The Transformation of Saul to Paul
47:06 The Scattering of Christians and the Spread of the Gospel
50:41 Closing Thoughts and Call to Action


Music used in intro: "Hard Answers" by JK Productions

Alison:

What turns a persecutor into a preacher? Today, we're diving into the dramatic transformation of Saul in Acts 8, 9, and 11. We'll explore how the story of this zealous Pharisee turned apostle changes everything for the early church and what it means for us today.

Adam:

What's up, Allison?

Alison:

Well, it's Friday. It is. And we're in your new office. We

Adam:

are in my office.

Alison:

You recently got a promotion, which meant a new office. Yes, it is. And I'm impressed.

Adam:

Thank you. Thank you. I

Alison:

love, I know our listeners can't see it, so I feel like before I leave today, I may have to snap a picture of you at your really cool desk. I'm going to have

Adam:

to clean it up a little bit. It's a little, a little crazy in here. No,

Alison:

it looks studious. You even have some of my favorite things. Yes, and it

Adam:

is absolutely real. Don't look anywhere closer to it because it's definitely not a cling on to the window. So I don't look at air conditioners behind that window. I

Alison:

like it. I feel, I feel very professional and you're good.

Adam:

It could be a tad bit cooler, like, like 20 degrees or so. But other than that, I'm very thankful. It

Alison:

feels good to me. You're hot natured. So I feel good. Um, in fact, I, some of my favorite times are spent at the beach. Oh, really? And the sun. Yeah. My family and I love taking road trips. Yeah. So, every summer I've got to go down to the beach and just spend, you know, a week in the sun. Are you

Adam:

saying it's hot and it smells salty in here from my sweat?

Alison:

No, I'm not saying that. It is warm, but I actually kind of like it. Okay. And the sun's shining through. That is true. So, I'm getting beach vibes. Okay. But, um, do you guys like it? A lot? Yeah. Yes, every summer we travel. Lance, um, my husband, he, he is so fun on vacations because I will plan. I'm a planner. Type A. No way. Yes, like every day is planned. I'm not saying that, you know, we can't go off the plan. I'm just saying like we're going to make the most. I've got to plan. And then he finds some like crazy off road adventure and it ends up being what the kids remember. And I'm not saying I'm bitter about that. I'm just saying he's a lot of fun and he has a lot of fun to travel with. It's those

Adam:

spirits in the, in the relationship that get all the fun. Yeah. What

Alison:

about you? Do you and Lauren like to travel? Oh,

Adam:

we like to travel. My, Lauren's family really loves the beach too. And I really love the beach for like 20 minutes, you know, and so a lot of our travel is like, just, Sitting at the beach and Adam going, how much longer are we going to be here? Absolutely baked in the sun, you know, but they're the type that can sit there. They can be there at like seven o'clock in the morning until seven o'clock at night and never ever do anything else.

Alison:

Me too. I love the beach and you don't love anything about the ocean though. You don't want to eat anything out

Adam:

of there. Genesis one tells us there are the name, the great sea creatures in that water. We have a very specific man who was swallowed by one of those sea creatures in the Old Testament. I'm not getting in that water. Oh

Alison:

my goodness. He won't get in it, won't eat it. So, don't like the beach. Nope. Do like road trips, though. I

Adam:

do like road trips. So,

Alison:

I was thinking about a road trip whenever we were, we're gonna be in Acts chapter 9. Um, but before we get into the road trip described in Acts chapter 9, I have to tell you a really quick story about my favorite road trip story. Okay. I had a co worker, who um, I used to work with and he and his wife, newly married and they were going to go to Disney World and they were driving to Disney World from Texas where we are to Florida and so he takes, that's a long drive, you know, all the way to Disney World. So he's driving and his wife decides she's gonna get in the back of their sedan and just kind of take a little nap and they're gonna trade off. I think they were like headed straight there without stopping kind of thing. So he decides he needs a little bit of coffee. He's tired. So he pulls off, but she is sound asleep in the back. So he's like, I'm not gonna wake her. I'm not gonna, you know, bother her. Now, this was about Like 15, 20 years ago. So we're like pre cell phones at this point, I should say. So he goes inside to get his coffee, he gets back in the car, it's silent, you know, he's being really quiet, respectful of his wife sleeping in the back. He drives another 10 hours and realizes she is not in the back seat.

Adam:

Oh my goodness. All he

Alison:

can think of is that she must have gotten out at the gas station like two states ago.

Adam:

Oh my goodness.

Alison:

So he drives back, a very unhappy wife.

Adam:

is at the gas station.

Alison:

She had gotten out to go to the restroom and he had not noticed and he drove off and drove 10 hours.

Adam:

Oh my

Alison:

goodness. Without noticing he was there. Now, I don't know how their Disney World trip was after that.

Adam:

I'm assuming.

Alison:

Yeah, but I will tell you that they are still married. So at least that's a good sign.

Adam:

That is, wow. I mean, when I was a student pastor, I was always afraid we'd end up leaving a student there. Which is, was always a nightmare, but I'd hope that I wouldn't get 10 hours on the road before I realized my significant other is not in the back snoozing.

Alison:

I wonder how that conversation went. That coffee

Adam:

must have really worked though, although. I was

Alison:

thinking that too.

Adam:

The adrenaline he probably felt driving that 10 hours back.

Alison:

Yes. Yeah, well maybe it was five hours there and five hours back. Either way,

Adam:

either way. I think he was

Alison:

10 hours without her. I'm

Adam:

thinking five minutes is already way too far down the road.

Alison:

I agree. So that is, that is a Pretty bad road story, I'd say. Road trip story. Yeah, I'd say so. But you know what? Today, the one in X9, I think trumps it.

Adam:

It does. Yeah. Yeah. This is an interesting, interesting, uh, uh, road story. So we should recap. Yeah, I agree. Up to where we're at here. So we're in the middle of, uh, Um, the study in Acts, we're not going verse by verse, but we are hitting some pretty significant portions here in Acts. Um, last week, uh, we dealt with a couple different, uh, themes, a couple different things that we see, but we ended, uh, ultimately, ultimately with this man named Saul. Right. We're introduced to a new character named Saul. And what is Saul doing when we, when we ended last week?

Alison:

He's persecuting Christians. He

Adam:

is not just persecuting. He's standing at the feet of people who are being, who are stoning others. And then we see him, he's going to go and try to get some letters to like just destroy some people. We're going to find some people, some things out. But um, the verse that immediately follows the last one that we read last week, which was is eight chapter, chapter eight, verse four says that now those who were scattered went about preaching the word. And I really wanted to emphasize that because I think that's gonna be a big theme that we're gonna begin to see throughout this this This narrative because what we're seeing is we're seeing God's church begin to proliferate into all of the other nations And what would seem to us as something awful like a great persecution or I arising I wonder if God's gonna use that.

Alison:

Yeah, absolutely and Um, we talked a little bit last week about we introduced Saul right last week in chapter eight and we're gonna see his story in chapter nine. And we talked about how in the book of Acts Luke often introduces a Bible person and then a little bit of time goes by and we see how God uses them. And so I think it's neat to just see the connectedness consistently in the book of Acts, how God is sovereign and in control and he's, accomplishing Acts 1 8 throughout the book, but it's in unexpected ways. Wait, wait, wait. What's,

Adam:

what's Acts 1 8?

Alison:

Acts 1 8 is probably the key verse of Acts. It says, but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come on you and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and all Judea and Samaria and to the ends of the earth.

Adam:

Awesome. Okay, so, let's continue. So,

Alison:

let's read Acts chapter 9, verses 1 through 9. I'll read it if that's okay. Now Saul was still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord. He went to the high priest and requested letters from him to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any men or women who belonged to the way, he might bring them as prisoners to Jerusalem. As he traveled and was nearing Damascus, a light from heaven suddenly flashed around him. Falling to the ground, he heard a voice saying to him, Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? Who are you, Lord, Saul said. I am Jesus, the one you are persecuting, he replied. But get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do. The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the sound, but seeing no one. Saul got up from the ground, and though his eyes were open, he could see nothing. So they took him by the hand and led him into Damascus, and he was not able to see for three days, and he did not eat, and he did not drink.

Adam:

Hmm. So, this is often known as, uh, Saul's, uh, conversion story.

Alison:

Yeah.

Adam:

You know, um, a conversion. So, what, why do you think this is called a conversion story?

Alison:

Well, the Lord, uh, comes to him, um, on the road to Damascus, and I think it's interesting to see that, um, he wasn't seeking the Lord. Yeah. But the Lord sought him. The Lord is the initiator, um, in our relationship, in our conversion story, and we see that, um, he can, he can save anyone. Yeah. Um, right? Because Saul, um, what we know about Saul so far is that he's killing Christians.

Adam:

Yeah.

Alison:

Um, and the Lord initiates. Yeah, the author really

Adam:

over emphasizes that, like, hey, but Saul is still breathing threats of murder against his disciples, and what, the reason why it says, but Saul, is because after what we read in, in the previous chapter, we, we move on to a couple different narratives that actually don't have anything to do with Saul, so now we're kind of halting and going back in time and, and paying attention to this guy who's still out there persecuting and going, going as far as trying to get, um, uh, uh, some permission to go ahead and persecute to the point of death, uh, now Saul, This guy is not, um, like a tyrant, atheist, or anything. What is Saul's background?

Alison:

He is, he is a Pharisee, or a Sadducee. Was

Adam:

he

Alison:

a Pharisee? He was a Pharisee. Okay, he was a Pharisee, so he was very zealous for the law. And, um, I don't think that he would have thought that he was murdering.

Adam:

I

Alison:

mean, we know that he was murdering, because we, you know. You can see that he was against the Lord, but I think he probably thought that he was working for the Lord. Right. Um, in fact, a lot of people think that he might have been enacting what we see in Numbers 24. Um, there's a guy in Numbers 24 called Phineas, and at the time, the Israelites, um, in Numbers 24, they were turning away from the Lord, and they were worshiping Baal. And, um, Numbers 24, 4 through 5 says, The Lord said to Moses, who was the Israelite's leader at the time, Take all the leaders of the people and execute them in broad daylight before the Lord, so that his burning anger may turn away from Israel. And so Moses told Israel's judges to kill each of the men who aligned themselves with Baal. And, um, this guy named Phinehas, he did exactly that. He saw a man who was prostituting, um, himself with, um, Phinehas. Like a bail prostitute and he murdered them both. He killed them both. Um, and at that point, you know Phineas would have been following the instructions of Moses to do that. And so I think that um Paul may have been feeling like he was being, acting in the same righteous way that Phineas was. He may have equated Jesus with a false God, much like the Israelites were turning away from Baal. But I think the difference between, or turning to Baal, I think the difference between Phineas, obviously Phineas was acting under the authority of God when he did that and Paul was not. But how, how should we expect Paul to know the difference? And this is how I think. I think it's actually In the phrase that you read in the very first verse of chapter nine, you mentioned that you said he was breathing threats and murder. And, um, I looked up that word, um, in breathing threats in Strong's Concordance. It's just a tool that we can use to look at, like, kind of the original language. And it says that, um, It was, so to speak, the element by which He drew His breath from. So, in other words, threats and murder were, so to speak, the elements by which He drew His breath from. That's how strong concordance defined it. It's like what He got up in the morning, like what He lived for. He wasn't living for God. He hadn't surrendered His life to Yahweh. So, He, He couldn't understand that that wasn't the Lord's will. He just was, I think, replicating what He saw in the Old Testament. But Job 32, 8 tells us it's the spirit in the person, the breath of the Almighty, that gives people wisdom.

Adam:

Yeah, there's an interesting contrast or juxtaposition here of, uh, what we see God doing in the Old Testament, in Genesis 1 and 2 specifically, is we see Him breathing things into a new creation and into life, and we're seeing it. Um, the man of God here, uh, Saul, because that's what he would have been considered as a Pharisee, as a, as a chosen man of God, a teacher of the word. And, uh, he's not breathing life or new creation. He's not continuing the creative works of God in his creation. We see him breathing the opposite of that. Threats and death and ultimately sowing more chaos into things that God is ultimately bringing to order.

Alison:

Absolutely, and so the way that he is pursuing chaos at this point is he's going to travel to Damascus. And, um, I kind of wonder, like, why Damascus? Um, we know that the Gospel had spread to Damascus, but it had spread many places at that point within, you know, the region anyway. So Damascus was about 100 to 150 miles from Jerusalem, depending on, kind of, who you ask. Basically like a week of travel, I would think. And, um, it was and it still is the capital of Syria. And Damascus has always been a really important city. It was a very important city in New Testament times. Because it sat along, um, a river at the crossroads of two international highways. Um, and it was known to have a lot of synagogues and a lot of Jewish communities. And so I think that Paul picked, or at this point Saul, as he's referred to, He picked Damascus because I think he saw it as a hub where the gospel was just continuing to spread from there. And he wanted to like kind of stop it at one of those points that it was, you know, gaining arms and legs to go even further. And I think that's probably why he You

Adam:

said it was a capital in where? Syria. Okay, Syria.

Alison:

Yeah. So, um, I think that's why he picked to go to Damascus.

Adam:

I think that makes sense. I, you know, there's so much going on here and we're gonna find out what's, what, what we see. But, um, I, I wanna plant a, um, little thought seed for our listeners and for you as, as we continue to read this, because ultimately one of the, one of the, um, literary devices that the authors will use and, and, and call it the Holy Spirit's guidance throughout, uh, the authorship of scripture is, um, they will often use an individual to represent a greater group of people. And I think what's happening here is we're seeing Saul, who is a, uh, a zealous Pharisee, And you know, we, we know about zealous Pharisees because we saw them with Jesus too. And ultimately what we see with the zealous Pharisees is they're the ones who will ultimately condemn or condemn or put Jesus himself to death, right? They were, um, the way that, um, uh, Jesus would put it is they were living in darkness. Right. They were blind. They weren't able to see the Messiah for who he truly was. And now what we're going to see is Saul's going to go through in a micro picture a pattern of what those pharisees are but what happens if and when they have a dramatic, uh commissioning or or even a dramatic, uh, uh meet up meet queue I just taught this word to to your to your daughter last night, uh meet queue Which is like a movie term where two main characters who are ultimately going to probably end up together. They end up meeting Uh, so it's like that first meet cute like a random chance happenstance moment where the two characters meet Well here if they're having a meet cute with the lord, they have the potential of uh, uh in their blindness having that blind Light, uh being restored and this is a reflective of psalms 27. Let me let me turn there real quick um psalms 27 Uh, it is just one of many, many, uh, verses that will help, uh, understand this that we won't go through. But it says that the Lord is my light and my salvation. Whom shall I fear? The Lord is a stronghold in my life. Whom shall I be afraid of? And Isaiah 9, 2 is another passage that we could turn to, but ultimately this is a pattern we've seen. all over the place that God is light. God is the source of sight, of vision, of light. He's the one who can breathe new life into it. And so Paul, what he's, what's happening to him is symbolically what could happen to those overzealous Jews if and when they have, uh, a, a dramatic, uh, meet, meeting with the true Messiah, the king of this world. And I have another really cool thing that we'll look at later, I think. So don't let me forget about it. But I think there's another, uh, layer to what we're seeing in Saul, specifically, uh, regarding to the Old Testament. Okay. So, so, so Saul is, right now, acting like a micro picture of what it means for Israel to have a, uh, a conversion experience with, with the true Messiah. He's blind, but then he can, he'll be able to see. And he's gonna go and go from persecuting to going on, to be on team faith. I think it's just interesting. Do

Alison:

you think that it's interesting in verse 9 that it specifically says that he was born for three days? What do you think is the significance? So I think

Adam:

there's okay anytime Bible Bible personal Bible study tip anytime you begin to recognize like the Holy Spirit in your mind like hey That sounds like something I've heard before before Always go pull out your concordance always go and just do a Google search or use chat GPT Whatever you want to do Um, and start to search, um, I feel like I've heard this kind of thing before. Actually, I'll, I'll prove it in a different setting. Okay. Um, Paul is, or Saul is called, and his answer, or God's call out is, Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? Now this is strange. Most of the time, you don't go, um, you know, uh, Allison, Allison, let me tell you something. Right? Uh, it sounds like a little kid trying to call you. But this is very intentional because there are two other commissioning stories that we see in the Old Testament that mimic that this is mimicking, the first of which is the call of Moses, right? In his conversion or commissioning experience on the road to Sinai, he meets the burning bush and it begins the same way. Moses, Moses. Um, and the second one is that of Abraham. And this is a very interesting one. Abraham is on the, on a different mountain. Well, actually, it's actually the same mountain, uh, uh, uh, that Jesus will be on, uh, about to, um, sacrifice his son, Isaac. And uh, the angel of the Lord calls out to him, Abraham, Abraham. And he's, and, and this is that moment where you're gonna see, um, that, that Abraham is willing to go all the way through even to the point of death of a, of a loved one. And Moses is willing to go all the way through even to the point of sacrificing him, his, himself as an intercessor. Um, now what we're seeing is a new, um, a, a new prophet. Uh, who we, uh, uh, will stand before and, and accept the calling of God, uh, on their life ultimately. So here, in, in Acts 9, we're gonna see for three days he was without sight. Well, if you are studious nerd of scripture, and I mean that in every good way possible, you may be like, oh, three days! That sounds familiar. And of course, if I were to ask you, what kind of things do we see in three days? One of the main ones I already brought up earlier when I said I won't step foot into the ocean is the three days that Jonah spends in the midst of the well. And what that becomes is a picture or a symbol of death and rebirth, right? But there's another three days that maybe not everybody, you'd have to really be a nerd to understand, is in Hosea chapter 6. And Hosea chapter 6 is talking about the restoration of Jerusalem. And, uh, this whole passage is all about the revival and restoration that takes place on the third day. So what we're seeing in that micro picture is that, um, Saul is blinded. He is, he is living symbolically as death and, um, by seeing the light, what he'll ultimately regain his vision. He's listening to the words of the Lord and it's going to lead him to a new life, a new, new vision. Uh, it'll be a revival, restoration of, of what is old. Part of him, which we'll talk about the shame that he's going to be living in. But yet will represent God doing a new thing in this person's life. He's going to be transformed into a new creation.

Alison:

And I think ultimately, um, the picture in Jonah. And the picture here in Acts with Saul, um, we know that those are death and rebirth experiences because all of them point forward or backward to Jesus, um, who on the third day defeated death and rose, um, in the resurrection. Interesting. Yeah. Oh,

Adam:

and Moses goes three, desires to go three days journey to go worship the Lord. And, and, and that pharaoh, when he presents it to Pharaoh and Abraham goes three days journey to Mount Moriah, which is where Jesus was crucified. And so his journey was to go in complete obedience there. So we have worship and we have obedience and we have, uh, uh, asking for forgiveness, which is Jonah, the whole situation. And then Hosea is, uh, a hope for something revived. There's the whole gospel, right? There you go. It's

Alison:

almost like the whole Bible points to Jesus. It's

Adam:

insane.

Alison:

I love it. So, uh, Saul gets a lot of the attention in this chapter, but, you know, I think that, um, Saul's story would have been incomplete without a man named Ananias. Um, and so maybe Ananias doesn't get as much, um, attention as he deserves because He deserves

Adam:

attention, yes.

Alison:

And, uh, we're going to read about Ananias, but I want Our listeners to think about something as I read his story. It's something that I can't quote you exactly. So I'm going to let you quote it. But you told me something about taking one small step of courage.

Adam:

10 seconds of courage.

Alison:

Yeah. 10 seconds of courage. It just takes 10 seconds of courage to be obedient. Right. I forgot to use you. I feel like, um, Ananias in this passage I'm about to read, man, he had to have 10 seconds of courage, maybe more. There was a disciple in Damascus named Ananias. And the Lord said to him in a vision, Ananias, Here I am, Lord, he replied. Get up and go to the street called Straight, the Lord said, to the house of Judas, and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, since he is praying there. In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias coming in, and placing his hands on him so that he may regain his sight. Lord, Ananias answered, I've heard from many people about this man, how much harm he's done to your saints in Jerusalem, and he has authority here from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name. But the Lord said to him, Go, for this man is my chosen instrument to take my name to Gentiles, Kings, and Israelites. I will show him how much he must suffer for my name. So Ananias went and entered the house, and he placed hands on him and said, Brother Saul, The Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road you were traveling has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit. And at once, something like scales fell from his eyes and he regained his sight. And then he got up and was baptized and after taking some food, he regained his strength. One of the things that I think is really cool about, you know, Ananias met with the Lord, and Saul met with the Lord on the road to Damascus. But, you know, when Saul was called by the Lord, he answered, Who are you? But when Ananias was called by the Lord, he responded, Here I am, Lord. Um, and I think it's really, um, Telling, you know, to show that one man already had a relationship with, with God an Ananias was already obeying God. And I hope that I read God's words to him, tenderly.'cause that's how I imagined that Polar spoke to Ananias. He gave him a lot of details. Yeah, I think those details were, 'cause he could have just said, walk out of your house, , you know, he could, might not have told him what he was gonna face. Go into the

Adam:

land then, I tell you. Yeah,

Alison:

exactly. Uh, but I think that he was dealing tenderly with Ananias because he, he. understood the courage that it was going to take to obey. And why was it going to take so much courage to obey?

Adam:

Well, ultimately because he's going to go and he's going to encourage, uh, Saul, who's this guy who's kind of known for killing and wanting to at least kill him and his people. Yeah, and don't

Alison:

you know that Ananias was probably thinking With every step My coming home after this. Yeah. Well,

Adam:

what's interesting is he'd have a great reminder. Um, just whenever somebody would talk to him Uh, because his name literally means god is gracious So and I actually think there's an interesting juxtaposition here I'm, sorry This is nerdy but I I think there's a juxtaposition between the ananias that we were reading in chapter 9 versus an ananias that we actually did not Read about in an earlier chapter and in acts and that's the ananias and sapphira story and what we're going to see is that the Ananias and Sapphira decided to do things that, uh, that are within their own, um, uh, will in a prideful setting and ends up being, um, the death of them. So here, what he's going to do is, he's going to risk his life ultimately to, to obey the words of the Lord and this Ananias is going to go and do, um, even greater things than, than that.

Alison:

So the Ananias earlier in the book is not the same Ananias. They're two different people. The Ananias earlier in the book died because, um, he sold some of the money, or excuse me, he sold some of the land he had and he told the apostles, that he had given all of the money from the land that he sold, but he didn't even need

Adam:

to give.

Alison:

Yeah. It was never a requirement. Um, and so he, he told them he had given all the money. He lied to the Holy Spirit, the Bible says, and the Holy Spirit struck him dead. He and his wife. Um, and it wasn't, that God expected him, like you said, to give all the money. That's not why he, he, he misrepresented himself. He misrepresented the Holy Spirit. And, um, at the beginning stages of the church, the Holy Spirit was taking, I mean, he always takes them seriously, but you know, he was like sending an important message to the church. Um, And so, um, but this Ananias, he, he is, I love, tell me again what you said his name means.

Adam:

Uh, God is Gracious. God

Alison:

is Gracious. Yeah. And I think that Ananias portrayed that character of God in the way that he dealt with Saul. Do you notice that he called Saul brother Saul? Mm hmm. Um, you know, that just shows, I think, respect and graciousness to a man who did, reserved, deserved neither.

Adam:

Yeah.

Alison:

Um, and so. And then I wonder, the Bible doesn't say specifically, but I think it's probably safe to assume that, do you think Ananias was the one to baptize

Adam:

Saul? Oh, I don't know. That's a good question. I mean, just

Alison:

how, how gracious was that?

Adam:

Yeah.

Alison:

Um, if, if upon his conversion that Saul would have been the one. to initiate and to baptize him, man

Adam:

an's name alone can, could be a, a whole study because he, his name is going to Paul who needs grace and needs to learn grace because he's not showing grace. He's showing judgment and death. Right. And now here. Hi. Interesting. That's an interesting thought. I be, I wonder if you did. I

Alison:

know. I think, I think it, I would like to know. We can ask that question. I'm a

Adam:

little sad. Speaking of baptism though.

Alison:

Yeah.

Adam:

Okay. Just as a side note, I don't wanna go down a rabbit trail. But, uh, I'm a little sad that we didn't actually include, uh, chapter 8, verse 26 on, uh, with the Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch in this whole baptism story. If you want to read a really cool story, just slowly pay attention to, um, How do we say movement of the Holy Spirit through Philip and, uh, well, let me just put it this way. There's teleportation in the Bible. I'm just going to say it that way and I won't say anything else. So go have some fun.

Alison:

Okay. So go back and read that section in Acts chapter eight, the end of Acts chapter eight, but let's keep reading in chapter nine, um, and see what happens, um, after Saul has regained his strength. So Saul was with the disciples in Damascus for some time. Immediately, he began proclaiming Jesus in the synagogues. He is the Son of God, Saul said. All who heard him were astounded and said, Isn't this the man in Jerusalem who was causing havoc for those who called on this name and came here for the purpose of taking them as prisoners to the chief priests? Bessal grew stronger and he kept confounding the Jews who lived in Damascus by proving that Jesus is the Messiah. After many days had passed, the Jews conspired to kill him. Bessal learned of their plot. So they were watching the gates day and night, intending to kill him. But his disciples took him by night and lowered him in a large basket through an opening in the wall. Um, so I think it's interesting. It says, Luke says he was in Damascus for some time. But he was actually in the area for a long time. It's a true statement sometime, but I just wanted to find some time for your imagination. It was like three years. Three

Adam:

years.

Alison:

Yeah, which is longer, I think, than I think. And I think sometime maybe like two or three weeks. That's where my imagination gets. But Galatians 1, um, 18 indicates that he was in the area of Damascus in the Arabian Desert that was adjacent for three years. Um, and he was proclaiming Christ in the synagogues. And we talked a couple of episodes ago about how Peter. kept finding himself in trouble when he would go into the synagogues and he would preach and the priests would come and they would put them in prison and then him and the other apostles. And then God even broke him out of prison a couple of times and they kept going back. But we mentioned how he didn't have the authority to preach because Peter was a fisherman. Yeah. Turn disciple. Um, but Paul would have had authority in the synagogues. He was a Pharisee. He was, um, on the Sanhedrin. Like he would have, um, walked into those many synagogues that we know historically were in the city of Damascus and been invited to preach. Um, so he had a platform in a different way that Peter, um, had a platform in the synagogue and he used it. And during that time, um, Saul grew stronger. Um, That's the specific phrase that the Bible used, but I imagine that he grew in spiritual maturity and understanding. Um, and then the last thing that I noticed about this passage is while he's growing stronger, um, he's also learning humility. And we really see that in the last verse of the section that I read in verse 25. Um, it says that the Jews, of course, eventually, even though he had authority and obviously it took a little while because it seems like he had been preaching in the area for three years before, um, the Jews finally find a way to camp out and plot to kill him. And they lower Saul in a basket, um, and I was curious about this basket and just, you know, How you know what that might have looked like and I'm not sure I know it was a woven basket I'm pretty sure from the term, but one of the synonyms that Strong's Concordance gives is a clothes hamper I'm not sure. That's what specifically this basket was used for that Saul was lowered in but I kind of think about Saul Talk about a road trip gone differently. He marches into Damascus three years earlier thinking he's going to persecute Christians And instead, he becomes one and ends up leaving the city hiding in a dirty clothes basket.

Adam:

Interesting. Interesting. I took a different, uh, a different take to this and, and, uh, what I think you're right on the, on the, I don't mean to say you were wrong, I'm saying I, I saw it from another angle of another angle. And that is, um, again, Bible tip, uh, anytime this kind of story sounds familiar, if you do a little research and you'll start to see some connections, uh, the first time that we see basket in the Old Testament. Oh, should I test your Bible knowledge or not?

Alison:

I mean, I'm gonna guess, can I? Yeah. But I think my guess could, will probably be wrong, but there was a basket that Moses was put in.

Adam:

Yes, 100%. Okay. Yes, good job. Okay. Basket Moses put in, in the Nile, when all the babies were being thrown in, right? And this basket is the literal word ark, actually. It's the same as Noah building a boat, but they use it here. So the basket saves his life. It shows that God's sovereignty and will is going to continue even in the of human, uh, uh, uh, participation in trying to kill all the babies. His life is spared. He's going to become the intercessor for, for Egypt. Um, but, now, what the Hebrew authors will do is they'll take that and they'll tell a different story that doesn't even relate, at all. Right? And we get to Joshua, Chapter 2, show up in a land and there are some people who want to try to kill him. And you know what happens here? This doesn't involve a basket, But involving

Alison:

lowered right? Yes lowered through

Adam:

through a window from her house right built into the city walls Yes, he was a prostitute interesting Um, and there's a third one And it starts to start to tie all these things together in first samuel chapter 19. We see Um, uh, saul sends saul king saul from the old testament, which we'll get back to him in a minute Saul sends messengers to david's house to watch him that they because he wants to kill david and and michael and Michael and david or michael However, you want to say it and david david's wife told him if you don't escape with your life tonight tomorrow You're going to be killed So mccall let david down through a window and he was able to fight flee away and be saved. So now when you put all of these narratives together, what you're going to start to see is in this random thing, this pattern shows up where God's sovereignty and God's will is going to continue regardless of what man's plans are. And Saul is going to be delivered much like Moses, much like David as, as a new, King, hint hint, I'll get to that in a couple minutes, and uh, a new intercessor, a new prophet, kind of like Moses, um, uh, and, uh, who, who will be saved throughout the sovereignty, through the sovereignty of God's, uh, plan.

Alison:

Awesome.

Adam:

Yeah.

Alison:

So do you want me to keep on reading to the next section? I feel like you have something good to tell us. Well, I don't know

Adam:

if it's good. It's more of a, I'd love to talk, chat with you and see, see, uh, it's a, it's an exploration of something that I, Okay. It has been, I've been mulling over and I don't know. What to do with it, and I think it might be interesting.

Alison:

Okay. Alright. Well why don't you read then? Uh, okay. Verses 26 through 30.

Adam:

Alright. And when, uh, he had come to Jerusalem, he attempted to join the disciples and they were all afraid of him for, they did not believe that he was a disciple. The Barnabas, uh, took him and brought him to the apostles and to, to them how on the road he had seen the Lord who spoke to him and how Damascus he had preached boldly in the name of Jesus. So he went in, and among them, at Jerusalem, preaching boldly in the name of the Lord. And he spoke, uh, and disputed against the Hellenists, but they were seeking to kill him. And when the brothers learned this, they brought him down to Caesarea, and sent him off to Tarsus.

Alison:

Alright. Is that where

Adam:

you want me to stop? That

Alison:

sounds good. Okay. Is that where you want to stop? No, that's

Adam:

good. Okay.

Alison:

So, um, I want to give you the platform to tell us what you're mulling over, but I'll just point out a couple of small things before you do. We're introduced to Barnabas again. Um, and we met Barnabas, I believe it was Acts chapter four, um, when he actually, in contrast to Ananias, sold some land. Right. And we also told what his name means. Do you remember what his name means? The encourager?

Adam:

Yes.

Alison:

son of encourager. And, um, we can really see both Ananias and Barnabas living out their names in this chapter, uh, because he kind of vouched for, for Saul and for the genuineness of his faith. Um, and then ultimately they end up sending Saul to Tarsus. They kind of send him home for a little while, right? Cause that's where he was from. Um, he was from Tarsus and we're going to, um, I actually see that he's gonna spend about almost 10 years. Wow. Like off the pages of scripture.

Adam:

Wow.

Alison:

Um, yeah.

Adam:

That's quite a while. It is.

Alison:

So tell me what, what you're thinking about this passage.

Adam:

Okay, so, and this is just something that we can keep in mind as we continue, as Saul's story continues to unfold. We see a man who's been commissioned by, by God. Um, who's being slowly, um, strengthened and empowered by God. Um, we're going to obviously see this in a greater stance. Um, several months ago in conversation with somebody else, it hit me because it, it, it was a, a natural, uh, uh, situation, uh, because somebody was asking me a question about Saul, uh, in Acts, but actually what he meant was Saul and King Saul in the Old Testament, which is a totally legit thing that people get confused all the time. Um, but I started thinking, I'm like, you know, There are times where there are multiple people named the same thing. We just caught that with Ananias. But it sort of hit me like, I understand that much of the New Testament, very, almost all of the New Testament, is some way interacting with things that have been set up in the Old Testament, not just in a prophetic way. way, but in a pattern and a repetition of pattern, but continuing to set those things kind of straight, the things that like the three days and all that kind of stuff that we talked about before. What if there's actually a lot more of a connection with King Saul and the Old Testament to this Saul? Now, mind you, 30, 000 foot view of, of King Saul in the Old Testament. Do you remember just like, I mean, Two sentence summary of King Saul in the Old Testament. What do we know? What do you remember about King Saul? He looked

Alison:

the part.

Adam:

Okay, he looked the part. He looked like the guy that he was supposed to. He's actually, um, uh, Goliath is not the only giant that David, uh, uh, uh, goes to, um, fight against because we're told that Saul is great looking. Um, he, he is desirable to the people and he's a head taller than everybody else. So he's a giant there, right? So he's being portrayed as the fruit. King Saul. Um, all good, all bad, very mixed life.

Alison:

I would say mixed. Yeah,

Adam:

for sure. Yeah. The Holy Spirit definitely uses King Saul in many ways for good. Problem is, good ending, bad ending.

Alison:

Bad.

Adam:

Very bad. The Holy Spirit, um, of, of eventually, uh, quits using Saul. Saul basically goes about choosing his own route and tries to, like we saw in 1 Samuel, he tries to kill David. Um, it's going to end up being his downfall ultimately, and he, he's not going to be one who we will remember as a good king, uh, ultimately in Israel. Um, now, we know that Jesus came to usher in the new kingdom of heaven. And we are no longer going to be citizens of the nations that we live in. We actually are citizens of a greater kingdom that exists beyond the limits of, of the borders of our countries, right? And the, and the, the people who are ruling it. Um, our king, much like what God says to Israel is you don't need a king. I'm your king, right? Our king is King Jesus. That's why Jesus can say things like, Give unto Caesar whatever Caesar's. It doesn't matter. That's just some people, some leaders that are existing here. You belong to a different kingdom, right? So we live exactly different than what this, the worldly kingdom looks like. And that's what we're seeing in Acts. My theory is what if Saul here, who will be re not renamed, but be considered Paul, a different, his Hebrew name, a different Hebrew name. Right, Hebrew. His Hebrew name is Saul. Yeah, which I think Paul would have been like his Roman name. Paul would have been his Greek Roman name. Um, what if he is actually meant to be portrayed as the good king of Israel? Um, earthly model of a human king who is, uh, who is, uh, leading Israel, but in a different way than, than King Saul ever did. He's the one who will come and expand all the borders of God's kingdom here on this earth while Jesus is, you know, um, uh, at the right hand of the father at the moment. So what if he is actually juxtaposed together with them? And we're told multiple, multiple times. multiple, um, uh, things about them. They're both very zealous for their, for their causes. Paul or Saul, Paul in the New Testament and King Saul were very, very zealous about everything that they did. Uh, they both have divine encounters and transformative moments. But one will eventually choose to follow his own way and the other one will continue to fall follow God's way Even up to the point of death, right? They're gonna have very different Responses to God's calls that disobedience and King Saul in the Old Testament. They're both going to be Have major leadership and influential parts and anyways Just put that in your mind because I think that there is supposed to be a connection here And what we're gonna see is that King Saul in the New Testament is gonna far Succeed well past anything that that King Saul in the Old Testament could have ever done And it's because he chose to listen to the Word of the Lord as opposed to his own His own flesh and desire which of course Saul will write a lot about here in his epistle and things like that

Alison:

I think that's interesting and I think that I think I can definitely see the connection Because you know Saul was It's put in place because it's what the people wanted, what they thought they wanted, what was best for them. And it seems like that's kind of the way of the Pharisees. They kept putting rules. Not that the people wanted the rules, but they wanted these, like, boundaries to define, you know, their faith in a way that God didn't want for them. But I think any time we see those connections, um, in the Bible or any time we read a story in the Bible, we should ask, what does that teach us about God? So I'm curious about, what do you think the fact that King Saul and Saul in the New Testament, um, may be patterned after one another. What does that teach us about God?

Adam:

One, I think that God's desire is to partner with people. His creation. And those people don't have to fit certain qualifications or certain designations. They can be giants. They can be, you know, It can be giants in the faith, they can be, uh, they can be little lowly nothing, tax collectors and things like that. God has desired to partner with them to, um, expand his, his gospel, to expand his kingdom and his kingship all within this earth. And I, and I think that what we're going to see is that, um, the, the will of God is always being presented to us. It's just a matter of whether we choose to listen to the word of God, um, and follow the will of God, or if we're going to just listen to our own flesh. You know, um, and, and again, in those same patterns, what we see is God also desires that we have discipleship type relationships, um, and help continue to grow up those who are younger than us. Obviously, Saul and David are going to have that, that interaction together. Of course, it does not go well because Saul's of the old Testament, his insecurity, his, his power struggles are going to cause him to begin to hate David because of people like David. Whereas Paul and Timothy. are going to be the exact opposite. Paul is kind of passing the buck off to Timothy and encouraging him to go and do, you know, great things, uh, in, in his place, even if it, even if, uh, even if it means that Paul himself is going to end up passing away for his, uh, for his belief and stuff. And so God's consistency is always true. He wants to partner with this humans. He wants, um, he wants us to continue his work in his creation, bringing order out of chaos. He wants us to go and, uh, uh, uh, uh, expand into all the world, the kingship and the kingdom of God by spreading the gospel of, of the, of that kingdom, uh, to all people.

Alison:

And I like how you characterize God as consistent. I think that's a, that's a good word that I hadn't necessarily, you know, thought, but it is true. And I think you're right that this pattern does speak to the consistency of God because one of the things that I believe is true about God is He doesn't operate with a plan B.

Adam:

Yeah.

Alison:

Um, and so, um, He, he only has a plan A and his power, his purpose, um, they're going to be fulfilled, even if that means redeeming or resurrecting. Um, and we see perhaps what God's plan was for a king of Israel was fulfilled in Jesus, but in an earthly way. I mean, he didn't have a plan. be for Saul either, right? Yeah, right. There's a New Testament Saul fulfilling everything that God had planned because he is consistent and sovereign. Um, and I think that it's interesting also, you mentioned that Saul was a young man and you know, a lot of times when I read this story, I kind of imagined Saul, um, Um, being like the seasoned church leader, and he was a seasoned church leader in the way that he had a lot of power and he had a lot of knowledge, but not in the area of age, I don't think, because in Acts chapter 8, it characterizes him as a young man. It talks about when they laid his, their cloaks, when the men who were stoning Stephen laid their cloaks at Saul's feet, he said, the Bible says a young man named Saul.

Adam:

Hmm.

Alison:

And so, um, and then we can see that he spent three years in Damascus. He's going to spend another ten years, um, in Tarsus. And so he's got, had a lot of growing to do. But he's also lived a lot of life already in what he's characterized in the movie as a young man. Um, and I think that one of the things I kept thinking about when I read, Saul's story. Um, and, and he does begin to be referred to as Paul. Saul is his Hebrew or Jewish name and Paul is his Roman name. And I think it has to do, not so much with the fact that he changed his name because he would have been referred to by both names all his life. In Roman contexts, he would have been called Paul and in Jewish context, he would have been called Saul for his whole life. Um, but we see that his calling and his identity are more defined here. And so we, we see he's referred to as Paul. And I think what Paul did in Tarsus for that long time where we don't really see him. Um, on the pages of scripture is, I think that he lived out what he expresses in Philippians 3, 13 through 14. It says, but one thing I do, and this is Paul writing because he wrote Philippians. But one thing I do, forgetting what is behind and reaching forward to what is ahead. I pursue as my goal and the prize promised by God's heavenly call in Christ Jesus. And so, you know, I think he spent time forgetting what was behind. Like, he had a lot to forget. And I don't know about you, but, um, Sometimes when I walk in forgiveness, I think I need to carry my shame with me. Yeah. Um, but those two don't go hand in hand. And Paul, I think, exemplifies, he's not ashamed of his story, Um, but he, he uses, he holds on to his story. He doesn't hold on to the shame of his story. And the Bible tells us that we need to let go of our shame. Um.

Adam:

So what you're saying is that it's not that he doesn't use his testimony Um, to further, uh, the gospel, you're saying that his focus over the testimony is not, uh, in the, the awful things that he did, but it's in the, in what God did to forgive those awful things. Yeah. It's a shift of focus.

Alison:

And he doesn't allow it to hinder him in his ministry. Um, I think that he, he spent time, I think he spent time growing in the Lord, learning, but also just, realizing that that was his past and it was part of his story, but it didn't disqualify him from God using him in the future. And it wasn't something that he had to, have you ever, done something, and lay in bed, and kind of obsess over it.

Adam:

Yeah, all the time. Yeah.

Alison:

I mean, how major would that obsession be if you had killed Christians in your past? You know, and so it was a lie to forget, and I think that Paul is a picture of what it looks like in Hebrews 12 when Jesus despised our shame on the cross. Um, I think that God wants us to walk in forgiveness, but not in shame, and Paul's a beautiful picture of that.

Adam:

He really is. Well said. I love that. That's great. Well, where are we at? We Oh, we want to end with, uh, chapter 11?

Alison:

Oh yeah, I think that this is important. You read the verse that we decided to point out in chapter 11.

Adam:

So this will be starting in verse, uh, 19. Um Now, those who were scattered because of the persecution that arose over Stephen traveled as far as Phoenicia and Cyprus and Antioch, speaking the word to no one except Jews. But there were some of the men, men of Cyprus, Cyrene, who, on coming to Antioch, spoke to the Hellenists, also preached the Lord Jesus. And the hand of the Lord was with them, and a great number, who believed, turned to the Lord.

Alison:

All right, so this is referencing back even though we skipped over to chapter 11 just for this little verse I think it's an important closing to um, kind of what's happened here with Saul because it goes back to the fact that Um, why were the why were the christians scattered? What event scattered them?

Adam:

Uh, the great persecution. Yeah The

Alison:

persecution that Saul approved of and that Saul initiated In Jerusalem after the stoning of Stephen and tried to pursue in Damascus as well. And was the result squashing?

Adam:

No, not at all. In fact, what man thought was going to work, it actually, uh, was used by God to do far greater things than we could have ever imagined.

Alison:

Yeah. So, so, um, despite Paul's effort to mess things up, God still used him and used his mistakes.

Adam:

Think, think about the, the pattern that we're seeing, um, here laid out, um, to, uh, in Old Testament, early Old Testament narrative in early in Genesis. Where do we see a scattering take place in the early chapters of Genesis? Um,

Alison:

Babylon,

Adam:

right? And this is all thing, all people come together. They have all these things in common, but their desires were, were to fulfill the, the pridefulness of their heart to put themselves into place of God. And this causes a scattering across the world and a, um, a uh, a multitude of languages being introduced into, into his creation. And now what we're seeing in, in a multi-phase process where. Pentecost, all people can begin to be in one place and hear their, hear their languages, even though they're not speaking those languages because of the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. Now we're seeing that, uh, the people who are carrying the gospel are being cast out into all of the nations with all these different languages and stuff so that there's a great undoing of Babel so that we can create a new kingdom of God that will lift up the name of Yahweh as opposed to the name of their, of themselves like they did in Babylon.

Alison:

So, Paul has a lot to be thankful for.

Adam:

Yeah, in fact, they're named something here. The first usage of a name.

Alison:

Oh, yeah. The Christians. Yes, yeah.

Adam:

Verse, uh, 26. There's, it's the very first time that they are called Christians. Um, now, they won't be called the church, but they're part of the way at this point, which I think is a cool name. I do like the way. I

Alison:

like the way. And I feel like it probably, I feel like the Apostles probably started that. The Bible doesn't tell us exactly how they got that name. It does sound

Adam:

like a cool club name or something. Well,

Alison:

but you know, I think it probably goes back to the Last Supper when Jesus was giving those instructions to them about the fact that he was going to leave them. And, um, I think it's at the last supper where Thomas says, uh, where are you going, Lord? And, and he said, we don't know how you're, where you're going. How, how can we know the way? And Jesus answered, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Um, and so, that's probably one of the most controversial or offensive. Yeah. Versus to people because they don't want to be told they're the way but I think it's interesting I think the disciples just probably clung to that.

Adam:

Oh, yeah, I'm sure that's how it got I would have had t shirts and everything. I don't know part of the way

Alison:

but now They're called Christians in Antioch. And does that mean little Christ? I've heard that but I don't know

Adam:

Uh, I I don't know. I've never actually paid attention to that. I thought it just meant Christ followers

Alison:

Maybe we'll have to look. It would be kind of look into

Adam:

that Or better yet, how about our listeners look into that and and let us know they're okay There is something that we're experimenting with because there's a new feature in our podcast that says, um, You can actually text us back. So in the description of all of our podcast episodes, you should be met with a link Um, try this out like try clicking that link and see if see if you can actually respond to us now if it doesn't work And just go to our Facebook page.

Alison:

Is that on Buzzfeed? It

Adam:

is. Yeah. So if you're listening to the podcast via Buzzfeed. At the very top of every description, it'll say, um, text, text with the co host or something of that nature. Okay. Um, but it'll, it'll show, uh, in their pod, wherever they listen to podcasts. So even if it's on Apple podcast or whatever, it'll redirect them to a Buzzfeed. A little website pop up I think and then they can type their answers there or communicate back and forth with us So we've always wanted this to be a discussion thing So maybe this is a way that you can openly discuss with us and let's try it out. So

Alison:

we need an answer What does Christian mean? Yeah,

Adam:

what does Christian mean

Alison:

suffix to the word Christ? Yeah, it's a little Christ

Adam:

or do some research Tell us what you what you find out and if you can't text us then just go ahead and jump on our Facebook page And perfect and write us there But don't give us any context. Just write two words or whatever. Just say little Christ. I'm just kidding.

Alison:

No, give us whatever answer you want and I feel like so that they don't forget their homework You should go ahead and close us out in a word of prayer. That would be great. Okay, let's

Adam:

pray. Father God We are so thankful that as we continue to watch the works of your Your disciples your apostles those who are deciding to give over their life to the will that you've prepared. Father I pray that we can do that today God, in 2024, we're still called to the same calling. You truly are consistent. God, your desire is to partner with us. Your desire is that the gospel gets to spread, that we can live as if we are not citizens of this earth, but that we are citizens of a greater kingdom. Make that clear to us and what that looks like today. Help us to, uh, just to shine brightly to those who are blind, who don't get to see, God. That people who can come and meet with us can have a moment where they are meeting, uh, with you. God, uh, that we can show them truly the way, the truth, and the light. God, we're thankful for everything that you've blessed us with. We're thankful for this, um, this podcast that you've given us the opportunity to, to speak a little, uh, over, and I pray that it'll continue that mission to spread the gospel into all the outer edges of the world. Father, we ask these things in your name. Amen. Amen.

Alison:

Amen.

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Adam Van Arsdale

Host
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Alison Howell

Host