56. Habakkuk 2:2-5

Join us in this deep dive into Habakkuk 2:2-5, where we explore the powerful connection between faith, prophecy, and theology. We'll discuss what it means to 'run with the vision', how these Old Testament teachings tie into Paul's New Testament writings, and the significance of an ancient oath in understanding these verses. Even under the weather, Adam shares his insights as we unravel complex theological ideas and their relevance to both Habakkuk's time and today. Perfect for listeners eager to understand the intersection of faith and works, and the continuous relevance of biblical prophecy.

00:00 Introduction to Habakkuk's Vision
00:19 Personal Updates and Remote Recording
02:16 Overview of Habakkuk Chapter 1
04:58 Reading and Analyzing Habakkuk 2:1-5
06:00 Theological Implications and Interpretations
12:37 Prophecy and Fulfillment
17:34 Faith and Righteousness in Habakkuk and Paul
22:14 Dual Meanings and Progressive Revelation
28:32 Future and Immediate Fulfillment of Prophecy
30:21 Diving into Isaiah Chapter Seven
30:57 The Sign of Emmanuel
32:18 Prophecy and Fulfillment
34:17 Faithfulness and Salvation
37:22 Old Testament vs. New Testament Faith
44:27 Allegiance and Works
49:09 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections
56:22 Final Prayer and Closing

Music used in intro: "Hard Answers" by JK Productions

Transcript

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What does it mean to run with the vision? How does faith in Habakkuk relate to Paul's theology? And what role does an ancient oath play in shaping the meaning of these verses? Buckle up, because we're about to uncover some fascinating insights in today's episode over Habakkuk chapter 2, verses 2 through 5. Adam, how are you today? Uh, you know, uh, I've, I've had a better, uh, day recently, yeah, unfortunately. I know I kind of set that question right away because it might sound a little different to our listeners today Because we're taping remotely because you are not well, but you're such a trooper Uh, Trooper, I don't know about that. Kindly had the flu earlier this week, and I'm afraid, the way that I felt the last couple days, that I might have also, uh, you know, picked up a lovely flu. of this now that Kinsley is better. So we're, uh, just doing what we can at this point. Isn't it terrible how it just makes its way through the family? drags on and on Yes, it does. Yeah. So, depending on how today goes, I either am preaching Sunday or I am not preaching Sunday. So we'll see. We'll see what happens. well, i'm gonna pray that the Tylenol kicks in and Makes you feel better and power through but don't be afraid to rest if you need to rest Well, spent all day yesterday resting. I was on the couch all day. So that's why today we're going to, we're going to, we're going to power through Habakkuk chapter two. Um, and we're only looking at like four verses today. And so. You might think, oh, well there's, what can we talk about in four verses? But there is a ton to talk about in these four verses. Would you agree? Oh, I'm, I am not. Yeah, you're not kidding. I, I, I truly was like, okay, how are we gonna stretch this out? But the more and more I dug, the more and more there was and I was just like, wow. Of course. This is incredible. And honestly, I will say that I actually in digging changed my view about what this is, is actually stating, which I think Okay. be interesting. Hopefully. Hmm. I can't wait to hear about it. So, um, so to bring everybody up to speed, we're in the book of Habak and this is our third episode. And so in the first two episodes we went through chapter one, basically. Where Habakkuk was bringing a complaint before the Lord. He was looking around as a prophet to the southern kingdom of Judah, and things were bad. People were evil. Um, And he had just, this was following a time of revival. And so I think Habakkuk's heart must have just been broken, Um, at seeing that things were going so well, and then things were, And, um, and so he brought that complaint before the Lord, just like, Lord, how long are you going to let these people, your people act this way? And God answered him and said, I'm, I'm not, I'm actually bringing in the Babylonians to, um, discipline my people. And Habakkuk didn't like that answer too much because it was worse than the first complaint. Right? Right, right. And so he, he actually, um, had a second complaint after that for the Lord. And the second complaint was, no, that's not a good idea. The Babylonians are more wicked than Judah. So we don't want you to use, I don't want you to use them to judge Judah. Not only did he not like it, but he didn't understand. Um, but he brought his questions before the Lord in a way that, um, he was raw and honest, but he trusted the Lord to answer them. And we're going to continue to see how the Lord's working through those answers and in Habakkuk's heart today as we look at the first few verses of chapter 2. Do Yeah, and where we were left in, uh, uh, the end of last week's episode was Habakkuk has placed himself on a watchtower and he's awaiting a response basically of what, what the Lord is going to do, uh, based off of his plea for justice and judgment that needs to remain righteous. you think that Habakkuk is using poetic language there? Like, he's like, you know, kind of emotionally, mentally, spiritually on a watchtower. Do you think he ever spent time, like, cause those were actual, physical, Um, things, you know, watch towers on the edges of land in Bible times. Do you think he went up there and spent some time in prayer? I think it's probably both. Honestly, I think that he probably did. Go stand up in a watchtower. I mean, if you were told that ultimately another nation is about to come in from your east and, uh, and overtake you, you're going to be standing up there going, are they coming? Are they on their way? What's happening? You know, but I think also he's on a, on a, a spiritual watchtower too, because he's, he's testing to see that the Lord is good and that his word will, you know, uh, come to fruition ultimately. Yeah, so, um, how about I read verses 2 through, you know, I'm just going to start at verse 1 of chapter 2, even though we did talk about it last week, so, but it'll lead us into the first, um, 5 verses of chapter 2. So I'll read it back at 2, 1 through 5. I will stand at my guard post and station myself on the lookout tower. I will watch to see what he will say to me and what I should reply about my complaint. The Lord answered me, Write down this vision, clearly inscribe it on tablets, so one may easily read it. For the vision is yet for the appointed time. It testifies about the end and will not lie. Though it delays, Wait for it, since it will certainly come, and not be late. Look, his ego is inflated. He is without integrity, but the righteous one will live by his faith. Moreover, wine betrays an arrogant man is never at rest. He enlarges his appetite like Sheol, and like death he is never satisfied. He gathers all the nations to himself. He collects all the people for himself. So there's a lot there, huh guys? the, I don't know how the readers, uh, or the listeners felt about that, but reading through this, I was, I was just kind of like, well, what has happened? Like, what exactly is happening here? What, what do these things mean I mean, you get kind of this idea of there's an appointed time don't delay. There's something coming, you can kind of fill in the first part, you know, but then it feels like little bit of a change. With this whole verse four, behold, his soul is puffed up, but then also verse five, he goes into like wine or wealth, depending on your translation. And it's like, what, is happening? What what's actually happening here. Yeah, so I'm curious to know, uh, what your experience was as you were reading this. I just kind of had to take it step by step, meaning like, one of the things that I've really realized about the book of Habakkuk is that I really have to remember tools of study in literature. In other words, like looking at the grammar, looking at the pronouns, looking at, you know, all those kinds of things and just piece by piece. And to understand what it means. And so just kind of starting with verse two. Um, it said the Lord answered me and write down this vision clearly inscribe it on tablets. So one may easily read it So, of course when I saw that word tablets, you know where my head went right to the old testament tablet Yeah, the ten commandments Yeah. that moses moses also had tablets, um that the law was written on And the verb there that says, um, clearly inscribe or write it plainly on these tablets, that verb's actually only used two other times in the Old Testament, and both times it references the law on the tablets. Um, and so I think that's pretty interesting. And I think, in other words, like, God wanted it to be really plain, probably even large letters. Um, hmm. It says, in my, in my translation that I read, it says clearly inscribe it on this tablet so one may easily read it, but some of the other translations say, um, so that people may run with the message, and I like that, because to me, it's like God's wanting this message to be clear. Like, as clear as the Ten Commandments clear, and he's wanting people to be able to run with it. And I think some, some commentators look at that and say, Oh, like, when people are just running by, they get the message. And I think it could mean that, but I also think it means, like, run with it. Like, you're really good about this, Adam. You tell me, you say, I say I want to do this project that I just have this idea for and you're like run with it Right, like in other words go for it Like make sure you know, you just you have an idea you just run with it And I think that that is also the tone of this in other words God's saying i'm going to give you this vision and I want people who see it just to run with it I want them to spread it. I want the word to get out there. I want it to go forward And that's the impression I get of why and how God wants him. this, this whole, uh, this verse, every one of these verses, I'm just going to tell you has like a massive, uh, amount of scholarship, uh, written about him, Yes they're very controversial. Um, and so this one, starting with this one, um, there's been quite a few different interpretations of this. And both of those you, you've actually spoken about with regards to, um, my version says, so he may run who reads it. And so I've read. commentaries and articles about, you know, uh, the one who is, uh, uh, running is able to read it clearly. Um, and then I've also read that the one who is doing the running is able to speak it clearly. uh, uh, there was a third interesting thing, uh, that I thought was interesting, uh, in the Qumran community, which is up there around the Dead Sea, uh, uh, community. If you've heard the Dead Sea Scrolls. Um, this is where they've discovered the Dead Sea Scrolls. This was like a sect of Judaism that during a certain period of time, uh, revolted and kind of separated and segmented themselves out from the Jerusalem temple and ultimately would, would find themselves out in, uh, the desert, uh, kind of living a nomadic type life, uh, in an effort to, to respond back to, to the Lord's call for righteousness. But the Qumran community actually took this as a prophetic speaking. In other words, what it was saying was, uh, write it plainly on tablets so that the listener, the one who hears it is able to run with it, run out, run away from it. So they actually declared that, um, it supported their teacher of righteousness who correctly interpret this as a, uh, as a prophetic, uh, utterance from, uh, Habakkuk. And that's what took him out into the desert in the first place. But what? Uh, I thought was even more interesting was I actually, I actually side with the scholars who, who say that this is the wording that, uh, Paul will be utilizing whenever he's speaking in, in all of his epistles about running the race, um, and, and all, all of these like Galatians 2, 2 and 5, 7 and Philippians 2, 16 and Romans 9, 16 to, uh, to, to name a couple. we always read that in like a Greek setting. Where they've got obviously the, the, uh, what is it? The Nessun and Nessa and Nestle miss games or whatever, the isthmus games Thank you things, you know, obviously the Greeks are going to understand that they, you know, the marathon, you know, all, all this stuff, uh, fits into that analogy, but what, uh, What some scholars believe is actually, he's speaking to uphold this same, uh, uh, interpretation that kind of you had brought up where, um, write it so clearly that the runner is able to run and spread it quickly, and I actually think that it might be a little bit of, uh, a little bit of both. Because I think that it needs to be clear enough that those who are running can read it, but it also needs to be clear enough that those who are running can spread it. most of the times that that word run in the Hebrew scriptures are being used, it's always having to do with either military or running to the military. To God or running, uh, with a message like these are the three, you know, instances really that that word run is used. And, uh, I think what he's saying here is write this down, write this down so that can, uh, who are, who are listening, uh, in obedience, we'll be able to run and spread that message quickly. And, uh, by doing so, this will, uh, this is what Paul will also, uh, utilize what he's using, uh, this language about running the race well, and, and all of that. Uh, think it, which we'll come back to Paul here shortly, uh, with a couple of verses down. so far what we know is that God is going to give Habakkuk a vision and it's going to, it must be a really important vision because he wants it to be clear and far spread. And, um, and so then he goes on in verse 3 says for the vision is yet for the appointed time. It testifies about the end and it will not lie, though it delays wait for it since it will certainly come and not be late. So Habakkuk wants. He's going to write it in a way that the message is going to spread easily. And he's going to do that because when it comes to pass, God wants people to believe it, like believe in him, you know, because it's going to come to pass. They want him, they want, he wants everyone to know this message. Um, so that he'll get the glory when it happens and it's going to be a generation later, right? When this is fulfilled. So, in other words, like, the people who are reading this message today needs to be able to tell their kids and grandkids clearly about the message because it's going to be in that next generation. That they're going to see it come to fruition. Yeah. So this fits back into the, that running, uh, claim. Like if you're, if you're, You're going to listen to the word, you're going to follow the word, you're going to need to take it and run it out into the communities because, and uh, this statement in 3b is actually, uh, uh, some scholars believe is a divine oath, which is, um, utilized throughout scripture that basically says like, if it seems like this, then it is not this, um, and that's kind of what this is saying. Like if it seems slow, just wait for it. It's going to come. So don't, it's not going to delay. In other words, don't tarry. You know, uh, because God's action is imminent. Like take this and run. Uh, it's coming ultimately. It's a divine oath that the Lord is gonna, gonna bring. So we still haven't gotten to exactly what it is that is going to be the vision. So we know that, um, you know, so gosh, it's kind of like building it up. Like this is really important. And we know that we, we basically, we do know what he's going to get at is that. God's going to judge Babylon, right? He's already told Habakkuk that Babylon's gonna come and discipline the people of Judah, but he's ultimately assuring Habakkuk that Babylon will be judged and we're gonna see that that's gonna come to fruition because we have hindsight, right? We can look back and see that. I'm thinking it's like 20 or so years before Babylon comes and like kind of completely takes control of Judah and then they reign Babylon reigns as a world power for what 70 years And so at the end of that 70, so at the end of that, like put that 20 and 70 together, you've got about 90 or 100 years later, Babylon's going to fall just like God is going to tell Habakkuk to prophesy about and for everyone to know about. But you talk about something a lot that I wanted to see if you could kind of address to our listeners. You talk about how a lot of prophecies have an immediate and future fulfillment. Bye. Do you think that that's true about this vision that God's giving Habakkuk? Yeah, so, um, prophecy, the best I've heard, I think I've even said it here is giving God's perspective on, uh, on earthly, you know, things. And so he lives in exist outside of earth and creation. And so his perspective spans all time. Uh, time and space that, uh, is created. And so, uh, the way that I've visualized it is picture a little stick figure, man, standing on a line, like a linear line. And in front of them is like a small mound and further down that little line is a larger mound and maybe even further down, it's even a bigger mountain. And so in 2d world, the way that the prophecy is working is the stick figure is speaking about something, and he may be utilizing language about things that have occurred actually behind him. Like in the past, so like here he'll talk about like the depths of Sheol that will come and, and, uh, and swallow them up. He's utilizing languages from the Exodus narrative where the Sea of Reeds, uh, swallows up Pharaoh and his army. But he's going to be speaking about something that is to come, which would be like that little mound in front of him. And so like Babylon, uh, uh, a Syria or the Cal, Cal, the end, I mean, coming in and taking over might be that little mound, but then a little further that you were from his perspective, you could only see just the tip of the little, the mountain that's like behind it, it seems as if it's an already, but not yet fulfillment idea. So there seems to be aspects of these things that are fulfilled already. Um, the little mound, but there seems to be a lot, not yet aspect of these prophecies that have, have yet to be fulfilled and depending on where we are on this little linear timeline, you know, we may not and how far reaching, um, if it reaches farther into the kingdom of God and that kind of thing is how we can utilize or see or visualize, uh, how prophecy is working. So. Yeah, so sense. yeah, so we're gonna, so hopefully we're going to be able to kind of clue our listeners in to what we think is a future fulfillment of this prophecy. So um, and an immediate fulfillment. So the next verse Habakkuk chapter two, verse four, that's kind of the bombshell of the section. I would say. Would you agree with that? Yeah. for sure. It says, look, his ego is inflated. He is without integrity, but the righteous will live by his faith. You wanna speak to why that's such an important part of this passage? Yeah. So I must, I must say that I've spent, I spent the majority of my time reading this verse. Mm-hmm single verse. mean, and I'll tell you my conclusion at the end, but there has been a vast amount of disagreement about what in the world this means. And it's, it's important because Paul quotes it. Um, he quotes that the righteous shall live by faith. Actually, he quotes it not just once, he quotes it twice. And then whoever the author of Hebrews is also quotes it. Um, the problem is, is that we have a lot of variations in the early manuscripts as far as, um, who this subjective genitive or objective genitive, uh, is supposed to be. In other words, some read this as, but the righteous shall live by his faith. And the, his faith would be. the subject of it would be the person who is acting righteous. Some read it though as, um, that, uh, the righteous shall live by his faithfulness and that his is actually the Lord's faithfulness, and not the faith of the, of the believer. And Paul, um, uh, Depending on depending on which side you read, this is going to place the action in somebody's courts, and it's either the Lord's faithfulness or it's the person's faithfulness who is who is listening to this, but I have more on that. But I wanted to hear your thoughts first, Yeah, well, um, well, first of all, just to kind of clarify the very first part of that verse. So the very first part of that verse says, look, his ego is inflated. He is without integrity. So that, I think, is pretty clearly speaking of Babylon. We could say, oh, maybe it would apply to how Habakkuk feels about Judah, but Habakkuk seemed to kind of have moved on from the wickedness of Judah once he heard the fact that the wicked Babylon was coming to discipline Judah, right? So the last focus. the point. That's the Exactly. So, so, so, um, I think the vision is, you know, Babylon's ego is inflated. Babylon is without integrity. So God is again saying, I see things for what they are, but the righteous will live by, um, by faith. And I think that part, the righteous will live by faith, like you said, is just a huge theological statement. Um, in fact, did you know that that particular Verse was a central concept of the Reformation and before the Reformation, most of the church. Trent. Yeah, most of the church was teaching that faith was tied to work to work somehow, but Martin Luther taught that faith is actually tied to works. It's just Christ's work, Mm not our work. hmm. and so, he came to understand, and I think the Bible teaches this, but through the Reformation, there was a big push to understand that salvation comes from faith alone. Because, intrinsic to faith is that it's a free gift. And a free gift can't agree with a work's, condition of salvation, right? And so you're right. Paul actually quotes Habakkuk, um, several times in the New Testament. And it's, so it's referred to as the center kind of like one of the central themes of the Reformation, but it's also considered the central theme of the Book of Romans. Okay. faith to faith. It reminds me of like saying from sea to shining sea, or from beginning to end, or from as far as the east is to the west. So like, in other words, faith is the beginning and the end. It's the start and the culmination of faith. Works doesn't play into that. It, it starts from faith to faith. And, um, so I think the question, how are we saved, is very clearly answered in that Old Testament passage, through grace by faith. So, uh, I, where I've landed on this was it's going to sound like a cop out, but I actually think both meetings are intended. Okay. reason I think both meetings are intended is because. Of the context of Habakkuk himself is going to read this differently. So this is, this is like small mountain in front of a stick figure the context of those post Christ faithfulness to man. And so here, the, the, the thesis behind his whole book here is that, Hey, the righteous ones who are supposed to be intercessors on behalf of all the nations before Yahweh God are acting terrible. They're not listening to your Torah. They're not listening to your word. They're not, they're not. The Jerusalem itself is, is acting, you know, awful. It's, it's, you know, Habakkuk chapter one, ultimately. All right. How long are God, are you going to stand by and not do this? call was that Jerusalem, that Judah would ultimately, uh, repent, turn their hearts back to the Lord and follow Him, follow them in their faith, like they will place their, replace their faith back in Yahweh's covenant love. Obviously, that didn't fix it, so God will judge the earth just like He'll judge Israel. You know, uh, Judah with Babylon, he'll, he'll eventually judge Babylon with Persia. It will eventually judge so on and so forth, right? Um, the cycle will continue, but their call pre Jesus was to remain faithful, right? To remain faithful to the Torah, to remain faithful in his actions, to reorient himself back to the Lord. Um, and, and, and then we are gifted, um, obviously what Jesus did. So. After what Jesus did, it was according to his faithfulness that we are now gifted or breaking that cycle, and we no longer, uh, remain, for lack of a better term, citizens of, of, of this fallen, broken system here on earth, but we, we, we are now, the word, uh, pistis is the word faith, and Um, uh, and it means, uh, like loyalty. So, uh, in, in Greek pistis means loyalty. So it's like loyalty. We are no longer loyal to this kingdom. We are loyal to the kingdom to come the new king, which breaks the cycle that we're going to see. So in other words, I think that this passage, the reason has been so contentious, but among Protestants and Catholics specifically post the resurrection is because I actually think it, it had dual meaning there. And. post christ work, it shifted the meaning from our works to his works and his faithfulness. And because of his faithfulness, the way Paul would say it, he became sin so that we might become the righteousness in God. Like he did it so that we then can now partake, be partakers in this, in this faithfulness that he But in Habakkuk's time, I do think that he's being called to remain faithful, uh, to, uh, to the Lord in the midst of this failed system, this failed world. Issue here in Judah, if that makes sense. It does make sense. The, kind of the part that hangs me up on that though, is like the, it, the Bible would change meaning, if that makes sense, like post Jesus. I don't like the word change. I like progressive, progress, Progressed. This, this progressive, progressive meaning, I guess is kind of what I'm, I don't think it means exactly the same thing, but I understand that there's got to be a shift because we have hindsight, right? And hindsight is 20 20. I think more though, That what faith looks like in the Old Testament is the picture of Jesus, a shadow of what's to come. So in other words, Habakkuk is looking forward to the cross, and we get to look back to the cross. Now, our view is a little clearer, because hindsight is 20 20, right? Um, but, He's still looking at the same picture that we're looking at. And so while, while I do think that he has been called to be faithful, I don't think that that's what this verse is really talking about his faithfulness, because let's think about the picture that the vision's going to paint. In fact, James Hamilton, this is a book you might really like. He has this book called, um, well, I actually don't know what it's called. It's about, um, how God saves through both judgment and salvation. Um, and so in other words, he said, James Hamilton says, God, God seeks to be glorified in salvation through judgment. And his idea is in the Bible that salvation and judgment are often two sides of the same theological coin. So if you think about it, the Israelites were saved under Moses's leadership when the people of Egypt were judged. Uh, God's people were saved when they entered the promised land. Promised land and when the Canaanites were judged, Judah's gonna be drawn to salvation when God pours out his judgment on the Babylonians, like he's promising to do here in the Book of Salvation, uh, of, in Habakkuk. But all of these were pictures of Jesus receiving God's judgment on our behalf. And so, um, what's the difference? Why does it get to culminate in Jesus? Because in the case of. The Egyptians and the Canaanites and the Babylonians, all of those were fair, were fair dispensations of justice because they rejected God and God judged them. But when Jesus undeservedly took that upon himself, um, it, it fulfilled the picture of, of what we need to place our faith in. And so I think that. Habakkuk, um, is being called and the people in this time are being called to look at the picture of God saving through placing judgment on someone other than themselves, just like the ceremonial system did when they, they placed their faith in that lamb, taking judgment. Instead of themselves for their sins and it was a, it's all a picture of Jesus. And so it's all looking forward to the cross and Habakkuk and, um, and I think people's faithfulness, people's works just never fit in that picture because the whole point is the justice or the judgment always falls on someone else than the person. So do you think that for Habakkuk this meant, uh, I guess, how do I ask this, uh, does Habakkuk believe that this is going to lead to, uh, this a messianic, uh, uh, prophecy, I guess, or utterance? So, I think the messianic prophecy would absolutely be the future fulfillment of this prophecy, right? And the immediate Okay. fulfillment would be when Babylon falls, like God's promise. And yeah, I think that, I think I would, I can, I think I can say with fair confidence that, yeah, I think Habakkuk saw the picture that God was trying to paint because of how he responds in chapter three. And I know we haven't gotten there yet, but when God gives this vision of pouring judgment on Babylon, that leads to salvation of Judah, he's going to respond with just absolute praise and surrender in chapter three. And that's how we respond when we are faced with the gospel and surrender to it. Okay. so I guess my view on the, uh, two views actually being accurate, I would actually base this off of, uh, the Isaiah suffering servant prophecy. And so when you go to Isaiah suffering servant and you go through Isaiah's, um, and the, all the passages allude me at this point, but this just come to me. So y'all, y'all double check this. But, uh, when Isaiah is giving this prophecy, he's talking about. Uh, low, there is a baby that is to be born and, uh, for basically the next 13 years or whatever, uh, uh, you know, the, uh, incoming, uh, I guess it would have been the Assyrian, uh, would it be the Assyrian? Yeah, the Assyrian, uh, uh, incoming Assyrian, uh, deportation, whatever. Sorry, I've got flu brain right now. Uh, It, uh, it will, uh, it's going to happen in within basically the next 13 years, ultimately, but within, but, uh, to understand that, uh, by the time this baby is a certain age old or whatever, I just need to find it. You know what? Just give me a That's okay. So you're looking in That way we Isaiah, Let Isaiah chapter seven, you're thinking, me see. double check. I can turn there too. You I promise. This is going somewhere, even though my flu brain is like, know, this is kind of unusual for us because off of camera, off of taping, we do have disagreements, not that we're disagreeing, but we do have different views. We haven't done that a lot on the podcast. So our listeners are in for a treat today. yeah, I totally agree. Okay. this makes it more fun. Yeah. okay, yeah, Isaiah seven. Okay. so, uh, Isaiah seven is about the sign of Emmanuel. Um, verse 14 says, okay, therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son and you shall call his name Emmanuel. He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and to choose good until he knows how to refuse the evil and to choose good for before the boy knows how to refuse evil and to choose good in the land whose two kings you will dread will be destroyed. The Lord will bring upon you and upon your people and upon your father's house such days as not to have come until the day of Ephraim departed for Judah, the king of Assyria. So, what, what is this talking about, in your opinion? Well, so I know spot. I'll be honest with you. I got a little lost in the curds and honey, but I do know that that is a, let's be honest. to, you're supposed to, yes. So I know that that's talking about the point. Jesus. Obviously. I mean, the Virgin will conceive. I mean, we, that's never happened before. So for Jesus. So it has to be talking about Jesus. Absolutely. Thank you. So you, you did exactly what you're supposed to do. Okay. Right. Okay. Okay. Yes. Okay. Isn't that our same calling today though, that we're called to be faithful because God's faithful. So do you think that birth scenario for their Messiah? Cause that's pretty clear. Uh, let me, let me tell you, so this is the two mountains situation. So there's an aspect of this that's going to be fulfilled in that first mountain. And then there's an aspect of this that we fulfilled in a greater mountain and the greater mountain will progressively, um, uh, to reveal to us what the word of God was truly saying. That's why we can look so clearly back and be like, that was obviously Jesus. is not what the Jews believe. The Jews believe that during the time of, of this King, and you can find the parallel passages of this in second Kings chapter 16, um, uh, And, uh, let me read this note real quick. Oh, uh, the way they read this is not about a future fulfillment, but an already fulfilled part. The way the Jews read it is that within 13 years, so at the time that Isaiah is getting this prophecy, receiving this prophecy, there is a There is a virgin that has never given birth. That has never been married. That has never had sex. And within 13 years, she will have a child. That child will raise up. And by the time that child is old enough to make that it's like a, it's a, it's a marker, marker for them to understand that God's faithfulness to the covenant people is going to continue. And that Kings will rise up and overtake, you know, their, their enemies ultimately. And so by the end of, so this prophecy is good for. Basically, 13 years in the Jews opinion, and so they don't read this like this is a future hope of what Jesus will ultimately do, because to them, what actually happened soon as the child turns about 13, the kings will disappear, and it's not quite about Jesus yet. And so what? What he's promising is something that would be fulfilled partially, to the way prophecy works, in that near future. But yet, it is progressively revealed to us by the time Jesus gets here, and there's an actual version, and there's an actual birth. And of course, the Jews are choiced with either accepting this fulfillment or not. In other words, he's not given all aspects of this, but this is not a declaration of a miraculous birth. This is a declaration of a timeline that's supposed to happen. Until Jesus comes and then suddenly you can read and see, oh, that also was a declaration of a miraculous birth, which is why I believe Habakkuk's time, their saving grace was their faithfulness. And to them, I think that their faithfulness and God's covenant loyalty to them, ultimately, I don't want to overstate that their saving grace was their faithfulness, but they were called to be faithful because God was faithful ultimately to them. And so. Yes, yes, it is. It is, but the outcomes are different. They were called to be faithful, but they don't. That's the point. They could never be faithful enough. And it didn't matter which pillar or which part of time in the grand narrative of scripture, whether it was pre judges or when they gave judges to create a system or pre the 10 commandments or post the 10 commandments, or when we are given Kings, every aspect of everything that the system God would put in place, uh, failed. And so we are called to be faithful, but not. But the outcome is different because God's faithfulness took care of our faults and failures that we will continue down because we live in, there's a reason why this lament that Habakkuk is given is very, uh, uh, still usable today because we still live in nations that where there are Babylon's and there are, and the church doesn't act the way it's supposed to, and really nothing has changed just almost seemingly on a grander scale because we at least know about it all across the world. Um, so what we're supposed to see is. The two things in scripture that remain the same are our broken and fallen, uh, sinful nature and Jesus's loyalty to fixing that problem. And so, depending on which side of the Jesus, you know, timeline you're on, It does demand a certain aspect of needing correction. So they need to remain faithful. Their righteousness is going to be even in the midst of notice. He doesn't say it's going to save them, like they're still going to suffer this stuff, but the righteous will, uh, be, uh, will live by their faithfulness to God's faithfulness ultimately. Then post Jesus, I think, um, at that point, God's faithfulness was, was made apparent to us so that it'll show that. There was no way that we could remain faithful in our side of the covenant. In fact, we were never actually expected to, uh, it was always just going to eventually be Jesus. And so I think that with all the cards on the table for Habakkuk, Jesus, I think he was supposed to read this as, um, God was faithful to him. Yes, but, but they were to also turn and be faithful, uh, uh, to God's, Words that that's obviously being revealed to him, um, because that was his complaint in the first chapter to like, Hey, you know, they're not reigning faithful then post Jesus. Obviously, I do think, obviously, I think the faithfulness was his to, to, uh, uh, clear, uh, these words in the past, uh, you know, looking back now, In Old Testament times that works played into salvation that works of righteousness played into salvation I think that. is directly because of, okay, let me put it this way. I think it's exactly the same in both old Testament and the new Testament. I think that the works weren't were what we make the measuring stick, but the heart is what God makes the measuring stick. So what, so where Abraham is credited righteousness post his works, it wasn't his works that made him righteous. It was his heart of trusting God's word to do something, even when it was really difficult, which is the same as us today. Um, Our works should be an outpouring of our covenant loyalty to, you know, to God and what he's done for us. But any time you begin to separate and segment those two things out, I don't think you could get a salvific situation. Um, I think as soon as you start to say it's the works that necessitate your salvation or it's the faith without works, um, that necessitates your salvation. I think you've missed the mark because it's actually the heart. The heart behind both of those two questions are, is a heart, you know, that, that could be judged because of self righteousness or a heart that, that, uh, requires, you know, uh, I don't know, it's just, it pushes the measuring stick to different places. And I think both of which are wrong. And so I think that 10 commandments and things like that, all of these, you know, 600 commandments and things were an effort, so much to save them, but to, to show them. How fallen. Even the, the chosen people of God actually are in the midst of the nation. So what, like, if, if Judah's gonna suffer this, then what in the world is gonna happen at Babylon? You know, Babylon's gonna really fall 'cause they're really wicked and really bad. Meanwhile, Jesus is gonna come and go, no, no Babylon's bad. Babylon didn't have the works of righteousness or the, the law like you did. You're worse. You know, and you are supposed to be the blessing to Babylon. And so, um, I'm kind of going on tangents here, but ultimately I, I think it's both. Both in the same. think the moment you segment out works from salvation, you're already asking the wrong question in the first place, because it's all about the heart. The heart is going to is going to show whether or not you want to be faithful to God's call in works, I guess. Yeah, I think that works could be described as the response of salvation but is in no way tied to the work of salvation because the work of salvation is all jesus's work and I think that And I think that, I think that's kind of where maybe, maybe we're varying or not varying, but I think that the Old Testament trusted in the picture of Jesus, just like we trust in the picture of Jesus. And so they're, they were looking forward, we're looking back, but I think the Bible, from beginning to end, Genesis to Revelation, paints the same picture. exact picture. I think God is the same exact. His ways are all towards the same exact goal. Like there's, there's no, there's no variation to me in the way that righteousness or faith works from old Testament to new Testament. Um, and we get really blessed to live on this side of the cross where, like you said, hindsight is so much clearer, but I think that God was really clear in painting the gospel message message. From the very first pages with Adam and Eve when he judged them by putting them out of the garden so that they could, you know, live outside because if they stayed in the garden, they were going to die. Right? And so, um, I think that. I think that Habakkuk, I don't, I don't think that we could ever say that Old Testament believers were called to live out faithfulness under a different requirement than New Testament believers, because It's always been great undeserved grace, like through grace by faith and the work has always been Jesus's work. It was just like in the beginning, it was just as done. Like, it's not like God, God doesn't change in the way that when he. When he made the world, Jesus's work was sufficient because it was going to for sure happen. Nothing was going to, to derail that from happening. And so, like you said, God's not linear. His work, Jesus's work on the cross was sufficient to save Habakkuk. And the picture was painted clearly for Habakkuk, not just in Habakkuk's lifetime through Babylon, but through all of the thing, the faithfulness that Habakkuk knew about, like the Exodus and all of the pictures of Jesus throughout the Old Testament. I think that's what saved them is understanding that God's undeserved, undeserved grace was upon them and his judgment was poured out somewhere else. on their behalf. And then it was by faith alone that they could be saved apart from works. And in response to that, they, they had works. Does that make sense? Yeah, I, yeah, I don't disagree with you. I don't think there was a different of salvation for the Old Testament, you know, people at all. I think the Old Testament people had the same mechanism of salvation just didn't have, obviously, uh, you know, uh, all the cards or all Mosaic put together. Um, but that wasn't an effort to create the full mosaic of who the Messiah was going to be. I think that again, the theme for me today seems to be like a progressive revelation, but that's exactly what the scripture is. It's the progressive revelation of who Jesus is going to be. Once we get to see that clearly that we put on our Jesus lens and suddenly these really difficult passages and stuff start to make sense. But what I am saying is that they didn't have all the cards, right? So they were, they were piecing together this picture of what true salvation needs to be. And it was dependent upon their obedience to the law, their, their adherence to the Torah, you know, their sacrificial systems. Um, and. Um, while yet that was going, they were going to fail and, uh, like that was always going to be the case. They were always going to fail because until there was always basically, um, for them to fix the problem themselves that had been extinguished, it wouldn't necessitate Jesus to come and finish, finish that work that he had already started. and so, um, what I'm trying to say is that ultimately, again, works do proceed, you know, uh, their, their faith in, in, in Yahweh, right? Um, their faith in Yahweh is adherence to the Torah. Their faith in Yahweh is listening to the law. It is walking with God daily. It is trying in an effort to be blameless. So their works did, um, did come after they, they would place their faith in, in Yahweh's ways after they, uh, how do I like in the Exodus narrative after they chose Yahweh to, you know, or that. were faithful and choosing Yahweh to follow Yahweh to follow the word to follow Moses. So how's that any different from us today, though? How is that any different from how we're to use the law or the Bible to recognize our sin and then place our faith in Jesus and have works as a response to his goodness? I think, I think this is why I really like, um, utilizing that, that language of allegiance, um, because allegiance, I can be a legion to. A nation just simply, you know, in my heart, but my actions don't have to show my allegiance to that, you know, um, whereas if I'm claiming allegiance to to a greater kingdom and a greater king, then eventually my actions are going to look different than the kingdom that I live in. So if, if, if I'm Israel and I'm in the midst of Babylon, I'm not going to go to there. you know, temples and pagan worship ceremonies and things like that. Because regardless of where you live and exist, you are allegiance to one true God. and so their allegiance is going to, um, is going to play out in works in the midst of, uh, you know, this different kingdom that they are living in at that moment. Just like today, my allegiance is to a greater king and a greater kingdom. And, uh, my works are going to come out of my, you know, going to be made a more apparent of that, uh, uh, or going to show my allegiance more to that greater kingdom. Um, and so in my allegiance, because I am. Because I act allegiance to them or am I allegiance in my heart? And because of that, my, uh, my actions show that I'm allegiance to that. My argument is it doesn't matter. The heart is where is where you're, you show you're truly allegiance ultimately. And so once you do that, then it's all about that pistis, that allegiance, that faith. Faith kind of takes on a new meaning almost, uh, today and depending on which tradition, Protestant or Catholic you come into and, and you try to attach words, but that's like trying to say, Oh, I'm American because I act American. well, that's, that's not, that doesn't make you American. You know, it's not about your works, but. If I am an American, I should act like an American. I'm, I'm saying I, I take on these, you know, ideals of this, of this, you know, country that I live in this nation that I live in. And so at the end of the day, am I, am I American because of my works or am I acting American because of my, you know, allegiance? And I think it's, I think it's the latter. I think that I am a legion to a King. And therefore my works will show that I'm a legion to that King. And it worked the same way in the old Testament. Their allegiance was to a different King and to a different, that's why they didn't need a King. There shouldn't have been a King. God was supposed to be their King, right? Um, the problem is, is God was constantly having to nudge them back in the right direction. Um, which of course we see is like. These stiff neck, strange people, but it was all to reveal that they never had a chance that Jesus was going to have to come and set up a new reign and a rule for us to become a legion to regardless of what our actions are going to show, you know, um, in time. Yeah. So I think in giving your answer, it feels like to me, you actually drew more of a comparison between Habakkuk and us, um, than any kind of difference. And so I think, I think I agree with you. And I, so I think what, at the heart of what you're saying is there is a call to faithfulness. You see in the verse on the part of Habakkuk, um, but I just don't think that that has anything to do with their salvation. Their faithfulness is going to be in response to what God has done. I don't think it's salvation though, not in this passage. I think it's the righteous will live by his faith, like his faith, like, uh, like the judgment is not going to come in and destroy, you know, these individuals in a Habakkuk's day, you know, Habakkuk is listening to the word of God. Will he remain righteous in these situations? Again, this is, this is neither here nor there. I'm fine with taking, I agree that the righteous shall live by his faithfulness is a, a reading of this that I accept as far as Jesus's faithfulness, like the righteous will be saved by his, you know, or the righteous will live by his faithfulness. I'm fine with that. I just wonder if it. It was heard a different way for Habakkuk, or which way Habakkuk would've heard at that point. Now, I think if Habakkuk heard this post, Jesus, then obviously I think he would've come to the exact same conclusion as us. Like that's why, you know, Paul is gonna talk about that, you know, uh, uh, ultimately. But our actions in return to ge, to God's faithfulness and Jesus' faith, faithfulness is our faithfulness to him. You know, um, our allegiance to him, our pitches to him. Yeah. That's a lot of word vomit, I spoke a lot there. Yeah. could mull over them because not just me, I'm mulling over them and I hope that our listeners are mulling over them as well. So just to kind of conclude, um, because like you said, we did lay a lot out there on the line and you got to introduce me to those ideas at the same time as our listeners. So just to kind of recap to be able to conclude today, some of our thoughts since they were so important. So central to theological importance in the Bible. Um, I think we both are on the same page that, um, we're, we're always going to be saved through grace by faith. Um, and this verse we know is really important to that concept because Paul uses this verse in the New Testament multiple Hebrews, to communicate that message. Um, that. Um, and it isn't, it isn't going to be anything that Habakkuk or the people in Judah are going to do to earn their salvation. God is doing all the work. He's going to pour his judgment out on Babylon. And he is going to save Judah. And it is a picture of exactly what he did. All throughout the Old Testament, but ultimately in Jesus, when he poured out his judgment and it culminates in Jesus, because unlike all of those others before Jesus didn't deserve that judgment, but he received it on our behalf. And that is the picture that the Old Testament believers place their faith in, and that is the truth and the reality that we can look back on hindsight 2020 and place our faith in. And so, um, but you're right. Things were difficult for Habakkuk in this time. And so in addition to that being such a huge theological truth, that's going to be important to all believers of all times. We also can see that You I think that is incredibly relevant. To Habakkuk's time, the situation of the impending, um, Babylonian invasion, but it's also important to our time, isn't it, too, because this isn't an easy place to be a believer all the time either, is it? No, for sure. Not. Yeah. So do you have any other summarizing remarks that you'd like to make sure our listeners leave with? well, I'd like to hear your opinion on where he goes with verse five, cause that feels like a pretty hard right turn. I think in that, in that. Oh, good. Okay. So it says moreover wine betrays an arrogant man is never at rest. He enlarges his appetite like Sheol, and by death he is never satisfied. He gathers all the nations to himself, and he collects all the peoples to himself. So kind of where I landed with that, and you may have a more intelligent, Um, interpretation, but Yeah, right. vision is going to be about Babylon. I think this verse describes Babylon, and I think that, um, you know, there's a lot of variations. So Hebrew is a word poor language, and what that means is one word can mean a lot of things, and so sometimes we see different words. In our different translations, the ESV may use wine, whereas like, um, the NIV may use wealth for that word. So it's like wealth betrays or wine betrays. Well, do they? Which one? Both? Like, and so I think that it's trying to, I think that God was probably painting a clear cultural picture pointing to Babylon. Um, like for example, if I were to say, I'm talking about the state who legalized marijuana, would you know exactly who, what I was talking about, or I'm talking about that state crazy about gun rights, California, right, right. like, there's kind of, you're like, yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. And so I feel like that maybe this was, Although this is true, like this statement is true, verse five is true, um, in proverbial meaning also relevant to any, you know, wicked nation or group of people. I feel like maybe what he chose to point out in these verses are going to point the finger clearly and directly to Babylon. So there aren't any questions about where this vision is going and its immediate fulfillment. Does that make sense? Hmm. Yeah, I agree. I actually think it's, uh, I think that is where the reader is supposed to go. Uh, I think, however, just like the book will kind of show, uh, you know, as we continue on, it's sort of a trap to do that because it's, um, actually I have this word. It's called Cal Wahomer argument, Okay. an ancient Jewish, uh, uh, like. reasoning technique, like through logics. I actually think that what he's stating here is meant to be read as Babylon, but is not specified as the Chaldeans. Um, because I think what he's stating here is also applicable to, um, the, the Israelites or the Jew Judah Judea at this time as well, um, too. So it's kind of a, a trap to, uh, to, uh, fall into, with regards to. Oh, how dare these wicked and awful people. And meanwhile, it's like, Oh, well, this is utilizing similar language to what you used, used for our, uh, to those in chapter one, that Yeah, nation. So I agree with that because it speaks to the fact that the Bible is meant to read me. As much as I meant to read it, explain that. that so in other words, I'm not the hero of the Bible. Um, and so I ought to use it, um, to help me determine my place as much as help me determine God's place. In other words, so, like you said, not just like, you know, I, I use the words to point the finger. But, um, this could also, this could also apply to, you know, believers who are acting in this way or unbelievers who confess, um, Jesus. And so, yeah, I think, I think that, um, that's a, that's a good word, Adam, because we couldn't, shouldn't be so quick to point the finger to dismiss, um, that the Bible is meant to keep me in my place as much as it is to keep the Lord in his place as well. And I'm sure that that's what God intended for Judah. Yeah, almost like he's saying how much more than, uh, if, if Judah and Jerusalem is laid waste, then how much more even will Babylon be one day? Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, that was some deep stuff. I'm impressed that you were able to use that intelligence with fever. we went, we went four verses and we went almost a full hour. Okay. Well, and you know, I think this would be, this would really be an interesting episode for our listeners to weigh in on. Um, Yeah. I would love to get some of that fan mail you talked about that they can send us through biblical bites. Or is it what, how, how can they send us mail? I think it says like at the top of whatever, wherever they listen to us on podcast, it should say like send a text, like in the description or right Okay, episode. or you can even just do it right on our Facebook page. Biblical Bites. Yeah. absolutely. We'll have some more discussion. We'll end it here. That'd be great. Okay. But how about you do, about the next one, by the way. Oh, good. I think that's All right. Well, how about you end us today in a word of prayer? Sure. Let's pray. God, thank you for this Thank you for the time that we got to dive into your word. I pray that you'll just help continue to teach us, God, that we can ultimately just spend a lifetime in it with you, God, where it is such a privilege to open your word, to have it, uh, that we can meditate on it day and night. God, we are thankful that, uh, that, that Jesus makes things so much clearer, God, we are so thankful that we live, uh, post the cross, God, that, that, um, we have that hindsight that, that really, uh, makes things clear, but God, I pray ultimately that we, uh, understand just like Habakkuk did, that you are faithful, that you are just, uh, God, that you will, um, even in the midst of a world that, that seems really not unlike the one that Habakkuk existed in. God, you are faithful, um, that you will continue to work and continue to move. And we have to remain faithful in the midst of that. God, we just ask that you will protect us and we love you in your name. Amen. Amen.