Sales Mastery Unleashed: Insider Insights with Everett Lippel and Integrating Sandler, Cardone, and Carnegie Techniques!

Welcome to "Sales Mastery Unleashed," the podcast where sales expert Everett Lippel shares his invaluable insights and strategies for achieving unparalleled success in the world of sales. Join us as Everett integrates the techniques taught by industry leaders such as Sandler, Cardone, and Carnegie, providing you with a comprehensive toolkit to elevate your sales game.

Whether you're a seasoned sales professional, a service technician, or someone in a customer-facing role, this podcast is your go-to resource for honing your sales skills and mastering the art of selling. Everett Lippel's wealth of experience and practical expertise will guide you through actionable tips, proven techniques, and real-world examples, helping you build stronger relationships, ask better questions, and close more deals.

Discover the secrets behind sales success as Everett breaks down the learned behaviors and strategies that top performers employ. Each episode delves into a specific aspect of sales mastery, offering insider insights and actionable takeaways you can implement right away. With Everett as your guide, you'll learn how to navigate complex sales scenarios, overcome objections, and establish yourself as a trusted advisor in your industry.

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Corey Berrier: Welcome to the Successful Life Podcast. I'm your host, Corey Berrier, and I'm here with Everett Lippel. What's up, brother? What's up, man? Good to see you. Good to see you. So you are you're a Sandler guy, right? I am a Sandler guy. Many moons ago. Yeah. Pair it with me all, all through A good portion of, my goodness, the last, holy moly, it's 15 years or so.

[00:00:28] I I ended up down that journey of the Sandler Sales Training University. Yeah. It's interesting because I don't s I don't think about whether I'm using it. What I've learned from Sandler, I just, I've integrated it into my brain to the point that you know, and I'm not fluid in it, but I've gone through a shit ton of training.

[00:00:56] And I'll tell you like, it, it just comes with an everyday conversation with me. Does that make sense? Yeah. There's some, yeah there's, some validity there. So we as sales professionals especially in leadership, right? You've taken so many different training classes, you've explored, like, I have quite possibly taken virtually almost every single sales training class that you could, possibly imagine.

[00:01:29] So for instance they're talking about Dale Carnegie sales training, Sandler sales training Grant Cardone sales training. Then you start picking up like I'll tell you something that was crazy. There's a guy, you probably know who he is, Charlie Gruer out of Florida, and I didn't take a sales training class, but I, bought his 16 at the time.

[00:01:54] This was 12 years ago, like a 16-disc set. And then you roll through that, and that's specific to H V A C sales. And then, so you really don't know, and I think the most important thing is taking the most important effective nuggets from each sales training that you do, and then applying it into your day-to-day.

[00:02:14] And so you might be using a close from Grant Cardone on one call. Right. And then something that I loved that I picked up from Carnegie training was. Was, that sales are a, are people start to say, oh, you got the gift of gab, or You're naturally good at something, or, oh, they're just a good salesperson.

[00:02:35] And so there's probably the raw d n A in there that can create a really good sales rep. So you have some tangibles, but what Dale Carnegie tells you, it's that it's actionable items. That it is a learned behavior skill that you are sharpening and tuning and we lose that sight. And if there's a car, if there are service technicians especially, or tradesmen that are in sales in general, or at least they're customer-facing that is something that I, have to stress because I think sometimes they'll look at a successful service tech and they'll say, well, that guy's just a sales rep.

[00:03:09] Or, oh, that guy's just a sales guy. But, the repeatable process in which you employ those tactics and strategies is actually the most important part about it that none of that gift of gab, sure, you could be a hustler, right? But none of that. None of that gifted gab is gonna create success for you unless you apply the strategies that you learn and the actionable things.

[00:03:35] Pick up the phone, make the text message, and go the extra step. Do more exploration, ask better questions, listen better, observe [00:03:46] better, and follow up. I sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. Put yourself in a position though, where you've earned the right to follow up where they're like, that's my guy. I want to do business with that guy.

[00:04:04] And if he can make it sort of work for me, I you can justify spending a little more money. You can justify spending a lot more money. You can justify a better solution because that guy, you gotta be that guy. How do you become that guy? And I think that's what I train my guys on how to do, right?

[00:04:24] Like you can't skip steps on the way. You have to make sure that you check all the boxes. And so going back to Sandler, like Sandler's got that sales submarine that they do, right? Where it's like up front and blah, blah, blah. And they go through all those actions, and I'm not even sure if I could go through, like without looking at it, if I could actually go through and tell you what each one of those compartments is, and then you seal the compartments behind it.

[00:04:50] But I could say that all of them, and this was my biggest takeaway from Sandler sales training, you can do none of that unless you have a connection and bond and rapport with your clientele. And then and, still trust because then you, have nothing. You have nothing to stand on. And so when guys shake their heads and they say, well, I don't know why I didn't close that deal.

[00:05:13] I don't know why I didn't get that install. Well, I don't know why I didn't get that water heater. I gave 'em all the information. I'm like you, probably didn't under. You probably didn't understand your customer. Right? And look, you're gonna lose sales. Nobody's a hundred percent closing percentage, right?

[00:05:26] Like, so some of them you just gotta say, okay, well I did my job. Right? Right. But getting to that point where you, have you done your job? Have you walked through the steps? Have you taken your time? And this is the thing, especially when you're running many, sales calls in any industry, it can become redundant.

[00:05:44] It can become it can become where sometimes. You might even say, oh my gosh, did I talk to this guy about this? Or was it the last house I was in? I lost track. I don't even know. I've run so many sales calls in the last few days. I so. No, I agree with you. If you don't build that relationship at the beginning, you have the likeliness of closing that deal.

[00:06:13] And I don't even like really saying closing that deal, because at the end of the day if you build a relationship, it should if you're offering a legitimate product and service, you believe in even if it's a more expensive service or product for that matter. If you believe in it and you built that relationship, most likely, they need it, right?

[00:06:34] Or they want it. It could be either one. They don't necessarily have to need it. I don't need a bidet, but it would be great if my plumber offered a bid because maybe that's what I want. Right? That doesn't mean everybody needs a bidet. It just means that maybe that's what I want. No, it.

[00:06:50] There there's some validity there. And I think, oftentimes, I think a lot of sales guys also service tech, sales guys, whoever's out there, customer-facing, we also sometimes get lost in these processes. And so talking about gathering all the data and getting all the information together.

[00:07:08] Sometimes I've seen reps, I mean that I've coached that they, tend to, it jumbles for them and then they, sort of, it. I guess they want to use too much, and sometimes you gotta boil it down. And I developed a training program that I've shared and I've, coached companies on this training method, and I call it clear, and it's an [00:07:32] acronym and but the meaning is literally clear.

[00:07:36] Like go in you walk in and you're like, oh gosh, these people have no money. These people have no this, is a terrible call. And the concept here is clear your head, clear your prejudgments, and that's the first step you need to do. And I know a lot of sales training talks about this. They say, well leave your personal world at home or whatever.

[00:07:59] But I mean, like, sit in your truck for a second, clear it out. Go in fresh. And that right there that single clarity step actually makes or breaks, right? Because you might be, carrying with you the baggage of what just happened in the, five nos that you just got in the last five sales calls or service calls, or whoever's listening, right?

[00:08:29] So, If you are hearing a bunch of nos and you're carrying that no with you, well, how can you possibly be in a good mind frame walking in, having heard all those nos? And that's the challenge. And so Sandler actually said that Sales is a Broadway play put on by psychiatrists. That's right. That's a hundred percent right.

[00:08:55] That's a hundred percent right. Absolutely. Yeah. So how do you, alright, so let's dive into what are your thoughts on sales culture or culture inside of a business. How much does that play into how that business and the success of that business? It's everything. It's everything. It, and I think like Forbes said that it's everything.

[00:09:24] It can ruin a sales environment. It can ruin your sales. It can poison and put cancer through your organization. Or it can uplift, and motivate. It can drive activity, it can make people really want. Really want to do the work really want to be a part of your organization.

[00:09:51] And I think that sometimes when people say like, oh, my sales are down and this is down, that is down. And sometimes they gotta look and they're looking at metrics and they're looking at metrics and they're looking at numbers and they're saying, oh gosh. And they're driving these numbers. And I think that sometimes they're like, they have to take a step back.

[00:10:08] And they have to say, intrinsically, do I have an issue with culture in this organization? And, I, listen a lot like Simon Sinek and you, talk about Steve Jobs and Apple, and Sinek did this thing called starting from the why, right? Like, Not, and this is like even if you boil it down on a sales call individually, I think sometimes people start with the product, the features, the benefits.

[00:10:36] Oh, this is an incredible this. This is incredible that, and it has this and it has that, and what they're going backward. Right. The last thing they should be talking about, it should be the product that they're selling, the service that they're, what they really should be focusing on is what's the motivation here?

[00:10:52] What, is gonna drive this person? What can you do to be a decision enabler for them to get them to a point where, They are going to make a decision and they're gonna do business, and they're gonna do business with you. That is the secret. So the culture can, drive that. And it's an inside out.

[00:11:09] It's an inside out mentality. And I, forewarn a lot of people who continue to focus on, listen. [00:11:18] I, am I'm a metric driven guy. I look at the metrics, I see it, but then sometimes it's like, you know how we're doctors and we we prescribe medicine for things, right? And we're prescribing for the symptom.

[00:11:30] We're not actually getting to the core problem. And in that core problem, it, that could be a number of things. It's not just culture, but culture being probably top three reasons why you may or may not be doing well within your organization. That's a hard thing to look at. If the organization's going a little sideways or a lot sideways, typically that's a hard metric to look at is the culture.

[00:12:00] I. I got a, buddy here in the D F W area and he runs a really good establishment. And one of the things that I pro, he might listen to this and I, I pride him on like when we talk about culture, there could be a variety of cultures. I mean it, is not just one size fits all different organization of different cultures.

[00:12:21] And and the thing is like the guy's got like ping pong tables set up in his warehouse. He does events, he always has food stocked for at cost like in his place. Like you want you want a sandwiches, grab it, you want to, whatever it is, you do these things so that people want to go to work, they want to go to work for you.

[00:12:40] And that, I'll tell you what, In this world, sometimes we're like, oh this guy just wants to make more money. Well, maybe it's not just that he wants to make more money. Maybe you know, cuz we all have a shortage of tradesmen, right? Maybe it's, Hey. We need to increase we need to improve the culture here.

[00:12:57] It's people who wanna work here so that we can retain employees, we can keep the people that we have and, then we can start to recruit people who are like, Hey, that's a fun, that's a good work environment. Yeah, I work hard, but at the end of the day I want to be there. I want to build something special.

[00:13:15] There's a number of reasons. So, No you're, a hundred percent right and it's, sometimes it's just a little small things, and lots of times it's not the dollar amount. Right? You can technically, I mean, look, I live in Raleigh, North Carolina. SAS is right down the street from me. They supposedly have the best culture in the whole world because they have everything under the sun inside of that campus.

[00:13:39] They've got doctors, they've got, they got everything, right? You go to work. Who's that? Who's that sas? Who's that? Oh. You know what I'm talking about? The software company, sas. Oh, sas. Okay. Okay. Software company. Yeah. Oh, so they've got everything there. They've got pools probably worked, outing the whole deal.

[00:13:58] Yeah, probably per personal. I like they literally have everything so you don't have to leave. Right. Think about that. If you've got everything, and now this is a little bit different, obviously, talking about a $10 million plumbing company, but the sandwiches, the drinks, the sh, the small shit is, Why people wanna stay there.

[00:14:16] And guess what, if those people enjoy working there they're, gonna tell their friends to come work there. And what makes a better environment than to have friends working with friends? Not much. Yeah. And then that carries on into the transfer of belief and, into the house. And Zig Ziglar right?

[00:14:37] Said sales is a transfer of belief. That's right. Anybody. If you don't, I'll tell. This is something that and I, forget which kind of sales main major sales training organization said this, but they said, if you are selling something, if you are selling a product or a service and you don't believe in that sales pro in, that, in that product don't work there, do not work there [00:15:04] because it you're, wasting everybody's time.

[00:15:07] You're not gonna sell well. Right. You don't believe in it. Yeah. Go home. Yeah. Somewhere else. It causes incongruence. If I'm trying to tell you, explain something to you, if I'm trying to sell you something that I don't believe in, you can see in my body language, in my facial expressions, you may not realize.

[00:15:25] You can see it, and the salesperson sure as hell don't, doesn't think you can see it, but people can pick up on when things are not right. They just can. I mean, it's human nature. Whether they know it or not. You've, I'm sure you, before you really got into sales, there was a time when you bought something you're like, or, you didn't buy something.

[00:15:44] You just thought, well, I don't know what it is about this. There's just something a little bit off. Right? There's just something a little bit off about, I don't know if it's the guy, he seems great, but something just seems off. I'm gonna move on. And that happens a lot. And that's that incongruence. Yeah.

[00:16:03] It really starts to get the brain kind of flowing here. And on that point, I have, I hired a sales rep outside from outside the industry. Now we, obviously, we sell H V A C services and my, sales team primarily takes care of all the replacement systems. So we have a, turnover model here where, you know we, first of all, we are in h, we're Home Depot and Lowe's authorized service provider.

[00:16:26] That's first and foremost. So we get a business from that and, then obviously we have just customers that call us, we go out, we have service calls, and then they, turn those over Hey, looks like your system's not working properly. Maybe we want to get two options here, an option for repair and also for replacement.

[00:16:41] And we have guys that do load calculations duct analysis. They go out there. Well, I bought, I hired a guy from outside the industry, right? And had no industry experience, but there was something about him. That I really liked. And there was a sort of that that, d n a and his, sales acumen is really high.

[00:16:58] But more importantly, he's an, he's sort of, and I never led with empathy. Empathy is not my strong suit. Right. But he's an empathetic. Guy and he's a very just grateful person and you can just tell when you speak to him that comes out. So that kind of paired with good sales acumen. I, saw. So now, he's, hit the road now here for the last couple of months and he is absolutely.

[00:17:25] Crushing it, first of all, and anybody here, first of all, he has he's, from another country. He has a foreign accent, okay. Which a lot of people would say, well this guy's got a foreign accent and works against him and he can't sell it because he's got a foreign, well maybe, but this guy, I mean, it's a pretty thick accent.

[00:17:42] He goes in and his humility. And how grateful he is and just like how sort of consoling is a word I guess he is with the customers, has has really, I mean, created an incredible amount of success for this guy. And I'm, so kind of happy. I mean, I spent a lot of time and it was a, bumpy start.

[00:18:02] You gotta kind of. Cut your teeth, right? I mean, first X amount of calls, he is like, he's all over the place. He's gotta learn the technical aspect of this. I'm getting 55 calls a day. I'm, still getting 55 calls a day. But at least these are like, Hey, I just sold that last job. And it's not it's not, what am I looking at here?

[00:18:19] Or you gotta walk me through this. So. There's some good, there's some good in there for, and I would say this for people who only look for guys with industry experience, who don't want to spend the time to train them technically, especially in a specifically in a sales role, for those that are gonna hire comfort advisors or cuz you know, in the H V C field or, people who are dedicated sales reps.

[00:18:44] Cause it's a mix in our industry, obviously. For guys that are [00:18:50] worried about bringing people in from outside the industry to just make sure that as a leader you're giving them the tools necessary to succeed because you might be walking away from people who could be very successful, but they just need the training.

[00:19:04] They need the guidance, they need the they, they need the knowledge and that takes patience. It takes a lot of hard work, but the end result is that you're gonna end up with potentially this year. I mean he, could quite possibly end the year as one of the top reps in, the company.

[00:19:20] Who knows? That's, incredible. And I think you're, right. Empathy well, empathy and emotional intelligence, like, you gotta be able to know. I'll just give you an example. When somebody calls in to any one of these companies and. They, probably have never called into a service company before, so they're nervous as shit to begin with.

[00:19:44] You gotta be able to pick up on, if they're nervous, you gotta pick up, be able to pick up on if their A is on fire. You gotta be able to pick up on, if you can take it a little bit more casual. But and we're, I was really, I guess, referred to as c s, csr, which Having emotional intelligence may be a, little bit of a, stretch there.

[00:20:06] And I'm not knocking CSRs I just know they don't have great training. Lots of times it's harder to find it's, harder to find. Yeah. Yeah. It's that street smart mentality. I had a sales manager that when I started in this business who was really, hard on me, bro. I mean, this guy was like, he beat.

[00:20:28] He beat the sh can, I? He beat the shit outta me, right? I mean, literally. And I and, it's funny because I look back, I say, know terrible experience to go through. This guy just laid into me and made, and. But at the end of the day, I learned so much from that horrible experience of having such a strong armed sales manager who beat the crap outta me every day.

[00:20:59] It was psychological warfare but, at the end of the day I became one of the top sales reps nationally. I'm, leading a 20 million sales team. So, so at the end of the day it was, Sort of worth it. So I'd say a little less in there for those that are going through the grind right now.

[00:21:17] If you got if you're going through it and you're feeling it and you're like, man, oh man, I don't know how much longer I could take all these nos. I don't know how much longer I could take all this. The stress of this situation if you have the fortitude, hang in there.

[00:21:31] Hang in there. That's right because look you, do have to get your teeth kicked in, especially when you first get into sales. You've gotta be, and you gotta know that going into, and a lot of people don't know that going into it. And but it, it, does get better. It really does get better.

[00:21:49] But you've gotta be, you gotta be a little thick skin, that's for sure. That's for sure. Which, Is becoming less and less sort of available with and, I have experience with this and it's unfortunate, like, but now I mean, I don't know, I don't know what the answer is because if you hire somebody and you know they're Gen Z, or I know I don't wanna like, I don't wanna like put everybody in a bucket cuz there are lots of Gen Z guys out there that are thick-skinned or millennials or whatever the case may be.

[00:22:22] I'm just saying. It's not like my managers cut their teeth in the seventies and eighties. Right? I mean, that, I mean, different time. You wanna talk about, you wanna talk [00:22:36] about how different things were back then? My goodness, man. So now, I've had young guys in their mid twenties and, these are gen Zs and And I mean, you've got some casualties, you've got some guys who unfortunately don't want or can't take the criticism, I don't know how much the the participation troph sort of mentality. And, the thing is I, think the hardest part about it is, That sales is, I equate, I'm a big sports guy and I'm I spent some time in the show business too, like way back in the day and, the entertainment industry, and it's cutthroat.

[00:23:19] I mean, y you're off by a note. Like you're not in the show. Like you're, I I played full fullback, like, dude, you didn't make the block. Like you're not starting and I, sports is still like that to an extent, but it travels over into the professional world where like, I treat my team like a baseball team.

[00:23:34] You got a roster. You got your roster, you got your lineup, you know where the heavy hitters are. And look, if you're struggling or if you need some coaching and you need you need some, hard, tough love, so to speak it's become it is harder with. With certain people and I think that they it's, there's no participation trophies, right?

[00:23:58] Like, you gotta work for it. You better work really hard. And you better be able to take the criticism, especially because it's just the way that the world works. And I dish it, I take it, look, I got people above me who lay into me about things and I mean, sure, I'll get pissed off and, I just get pissed off cause I wanna be number one at everything.

[00:24:18] So then my competitive drive kicks in. But, I digress. No, that's a good point. I mean and, here's what the other thing I thought about when you said that is as when you're managing these people, like now you have to think about that. Like you have to have that thought in your mind about, well what, age group am I talking to?

[00:24:41] Because, Shit, dude. I mean, you could say a lot to me at 45 years old that you can't say to a 25 year old, because I could take it. I've had all just like you, like I've had all this shit said to me. Right. But these guys have not, and they get their feelings hurt and we're in a really tough industry.

[00:25:01] I mean, yeah. Well, well all, you know what, and I think that's something for leaders like you and I to, look at and, we do have to adjust our style and we do maybe have to learn from it. Right? Because, the reality is, that the, the, world is ever shifting, right?

[00:25:21] So, I mean the, goal is to get, and, I'm not, I don't wanna come off like I'm knocking anybody, right? But, you do have to manage. And you have to direct and coach differently to, different people. But you also have to be able to give that tough love and give that criticism without there without there being, you sort of have to remove the emotion from the, situation.

[00:25:45] And I think that so you are gonna have some delicate people that you may have to tap dance around and maybe, and they may or they may not be a good fit for your team. That's something that as a leader, you're gonna have to ask yourself. Yeah, no I, agree with that. So let's shift gears for a second.

[00:26:03] We've got some information coming down from, for the inflation Reduction Act. Now look I, am certainly no expert on this. I'll tell you what I, if I can even remember, I'll tell you what I think it was the last time I looked. Actually I, [00:26:22] it's been so damn long. I don't even know if I remember, but I believe it was.

[00:26:27] How about you just tell us, instead of me just sitting here guessing, well, well, they voted on it last August and in the law, and now they're just now getting to a point where over the next couple of months they're going. I, went to an ACA meeting last year in Baltimore, and it was supposed to be rolled out already the way that the people would get a point of sale.

[00:26:48] Rebate, meaning you, you purchased it and immediately the contractor would be able to give you up to, let's say, an $8,000 rebate on a high efficiency heat pump system if it met certain criteria. And now they've gotten to the point where they're go, it looks like the next couple of months they'll, roll out how that point of sale rebate's gonna work.

[00:27:07] What we do know right now is that there's an up to $3,200 federal tax credit. For for, specific work of which you're gonna have to look on like energy star.gov and, look at what it is. But I do know $2,000 of that federal tax credit would is, towards super high efficiency heat pump systems.

[00:27:30] So and the federal tax credit is non-refundable. It isn't up it's it's just on your tax liability. So you owe five grand, now you owe three grand. And then the other piece of this is gonna be complete home performance, where they're actually going to allow you to deduct in that up to $3,200 you can put.

[00:27:51] An electrical panel in there or, some other sort of upgrade in order to facilitate, like putting in a heat pump. The biggest thing that, that and, so here in D F W we have a our, electric grid for instance. Is has a rebate. And one of the biggest initiatives has been getting people from electric straight electric systems with electric resistance, heat to heat pumps.

[00:28:17] And that's where the most municipalities, federal governments, utility correlation, federal government. Utility coalitions are going now the framework as to which you'll be able to get the larger rebate, which is up to $14,000, is gonna be, I think it's called the Homes Program. And that's gonna be a combination.

[00:28:38] I, believe there'll be an energy audit required for that. There's already certain states that have that in place. Texas is not one of them. But I came, I'm from New Jersey and in New Jersey they had so the way that the program works, which I think they'll carry on sort of the framework of it if you can lower your carbon footprint by a certain percentage, it might be 30%.

[00:29:01] You can qualify for a large amount of money off of the pro, just completely off of the project. So you might have to do. More work, so to speak. But but it'll be like a whole home sort of solution, which is kind of where I want to end up moving towards. Cuz we have an insulation attic insulation department to our company.

[00:29:27] And so offering a whole home approach is gonna be sort of pivotal, but I'll need to outline it. And see how the parameters will work in order to sort of customize a package and, in order to do that. And I'd say anybody listening like that would be, I think I think there's gonna be a lot of people that are gonna miss the boat on this.

[00:29:48] They're not gonna capitalize on it cuz they're gonna keep doing the same things that they've been doing or they're gonna get with it. Each state has taken, I mean, tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars. For this program I cannot see a world where there aren't gonna be people who are gonna be marketing this [00:30:08] effectively.

[00:30:08] And. And, even on straight, just regular replacement calls talking about this program as soon as it, it's rolled out, so that they can capitalize on giving somebody a complete solution that covers everything in their house. And makes it more. And I have a lot of experience with this program, like I said in New Jersey, where I ran a company that, that did this exact program and it's, an incredible program.

[00:30:34] I mean, you get a water heater, a furnace, an air conditioner, and attic insulation and air ceiling, and we bundle it all in one package and they're under warranty on everything. It's a whole home approach. So I gotta work towards that. There's a lot, there's a lot packed in there. So the, alright, so let me ask you this.

[00:30:51] Now, it does depend on like the median income, which I think in my area is, I don't know, $45,000 let's say. So there's a percentage that you get, if you're at 45, there's a percentage that you get if youre below 45 and there's a percentage that you get over 45, like. Let's say if you're 45,000 to 150,000, I believe the last time I looked, maybe that I, that feels like that.

[00:31:19] Maybe, right? Or maybe I've got that $45,000 number wrong on that particular one, but it's something like that, right? I. Yeah, there, yeah, there's income, so there's income implications, but everybody will qualify for something. So it now the, meat of the money will be given to lower income, and then it, gets reduced as you make more money.

[00:31:38] Now, I would wonder how in the world, I mean, are they gonna have to look at a 10 40 on every single installation? I, have no idea. The only thing I can think of is that the address will be associated. With the income. But if it's the previous, like let's say they just moved in, I don't know how they, I don't know how they do it, so I have no idea.

[00:32:03] This, it seems to me like they created the framework of a really good program, but there are some nuances when they put the income in there, man. Oh man, I, I have a, unless it gets verified later. I want you to do your taxes. I have noll. Yeah, for sure. So would and I have wondered this and I think it, could go either way, but I'd love to hear your opinion on it.

[00:32:27] So if let's say that the median income is the same in where you are as it is for me, 45 grand or whatever it is, would you, would it make sense? And I think there's two schools of thought here. Would it make sense to market to those people that could take advantage of the whole program and then hope they have half the money?

[00:32:54] A hundred percent, yeah. And, you might run into Situa now. I have heard that there are other programs there. There, there's so many programs. But the answer your is yes. Now what, ends up becoming a little bit of a hurdle here is, and this is kind of compounded, this is a whole nother conversation.

[00:33:18] The credit markets now, we finance 85% of our jobs, maybe 90% of our jobs. And the credit markets have been, I mean, just crazy. We, at one point in time, were turning down 50% of our applications. I mean, that's an insane. We, got credit turn downs from our finance companies. We got a turn down where there was no rhyme or reason.

[00:33:44] I mean, the guy made over, I mean it, was like a 700 credit score and we just could not put our finger on what was going on. And when when you contact. [00:33:54] These finance companies, they're, they have no answers. The, underwriting guidelines are changing so quickly. All, of the underwriting guidelines are digital.

[00:34:02] So it's like, then you can call for like an underwriting review and but man we have left so much business on the table. I think to date, we are probably in the one and a half to $2 million of, turn down business. Just think about that. Just straight revenue lost because we could not get 'em financing.

[00:34:21] So when you're marketing in an area that might be socioeconomically repressed in some sort of way or lower income, you're gonna have a harder time. Now that doesn't mean you don't still market it, cuz I think it's worth it. Or come up with a solution where you can work out an arrangement of somehow some financial arrangement that who knows you do the work, you get the money from the federal and the state government, and then.

[00:34:46] Maybe you work out a, some kind of a agreement with with the homeowner directly if you can't get them financed. I, haven't thought that's completely through yet, but I would imagine it, it would be difficult to do, but it would be a fantastic way to go to, bat if you're okay with sifting through.

[00:35:03] And so maybe even somehow pre-qualifying the houses before you got out there, right, like them doing a soft pull credit check that could be a solution. I was listening to I was listening to Billy Alan Ferguson and Billy Stevens the other day, and Billy was talking about, and I bet you probably know what this is, but I, can't think of the name of it, but he said he made a valid point.

[00:35:28] I I, actually didn't even know that you could do this, but he said we somehow, we pull, not a soft pull, I don't think, but there's a place where you can go. To figure out approximately what someone's credit score is. And I can't remember where he said it, was it, I can't remember to saved my life, but he was like why would why would you go to a customer's house that's got a, he didn't say it exactly like this, but it has a 550 credit score when you can go to the 700 credit score house.

[00:36:01] Right? I mean, that, that makes sense. Why would you, do that? So, I can't remember the program he uses. Do you know what I'm talking about? No, I mean, we have soft pull ability. I don't, I'd have to look into that. And of course, you know that I work with Billy, with Sarah. As I've done some consulting work with them and I've been sort of instrumental in trying to help them get it off the ground and now they're soaring and flying.

[00:36:27] I mean, it's been amazing. And, I don't have a lot of input like day to day anymore, but but, Billy, whatever Billy says, you just listen to it because. He's my only, my, only my, I had I, actually I was on another podcast and I had a short debate with him over whether you should have monthly or you should have annual service contracts.

[00:36:52] And he and I disagreed on it and, that was okay. I said monthly. Absolutely. Nobody cancels Netflix cuz it's 15 bucks a month. But you walk in and you say, I need a $300 check right now. It just depends on what kind of buyer you are. So I think there's no right answer. You're just you just give them what they want.

[00:37:08] They want an annual, give 'em an annual. I'd much rather get people on a monthly, cuz then they'll probably just never cancel it. But but so, yeah. My only criticism to what he would say there is, you're right, I mean, going into a five 50 credit Yeah. You don't want to. You don't want to, someone's gonna, someone's gonna service it.

[00:37:26] Someone's gonna go out there and, take care of em. Right. And I guess it just depends on what kind of company you know you have, right? I mean, are you Nordstrom, are you Walmart? Are you Neiman Marcus? Are you Target, what what kind of company are you? Right. [00:37:40] Right. A hundred percent. And I think his point was he feels, I think you if, I remember correctly, he said, well, I put I fill the board up with.

[00:37:48] The best customers, right? Well, of course you do. I mean, that makes sense. But I just don't know how many people, and again, I wish I could remember the, I don't know if it's a service, but he was like, it's public knowledge. Like you can just go out there and get it. It's almost like it's a website that he not that he has that, that it's public knowledge that you can check.

[00:38:07] I don't know. Again I, feel like an idiot cause I don't know what it is, but it's probably there's so much data out there. It's probably, yeah, there, there probably is. And if there's anybody that knows where to get the data, it is definitely Billy God. I mean, the stuff that he's doing as you probably, I'm sure you're very well aware of, and I, don't know how public knowledge it is, so I'm not gonna really get into it, but that dude's doing some next level shit.

[00:38:35] It's all public. I mean, he's got it out there. I mean, he posts every week he has some. Some po He's forgotten more things than like, I even know? so he's got, I mean, he's the og. He's the guy that started it all right? I mean, started the wrench group, created from one truck, created the biggest company in all of D F W, I mean, which is no small feat.

[00:38:57] There's like 2000 H V A C and plumbing contractors here in D F W. I mean, it's crazy. I knew that. Yeah. Yeah, there's like 2000 contracts or something like that. So registered contractors. So it's, a very competitive market and his company today is still fully functional. I mean, it's owned by service experts.

[00:39:16] I think it's owned by service experts. No register. I forget it's owned by another company. He doesn't have any interest. He sold his interest and and Sarah was really a work of, passion for him, of, I mean, he doesn't, I mean, he didn't need to do anything. He was retired. I mean I don't know how many tens of millions of dollars he got in the bank.

[00:39:35] He didn't need to do anything. He just wanted to create something really cool for the industry. And he did. And now he got Ken Goodrich. I don't know if you, you know that right? Yeah. Ken Goodrich just be Yeah. Became a major investor and so, That goes, but I don't know much about that story. And we don't have to get into it if you don't want to.

[00:39:53] But you know Ken, was a big service Titan like fan, right? Like he was I thought yeah. Maybe had branches. Yeah. No, I mean you, had advertisements. All you had to do was open Facebook and there his advertisements, co-branded advertisements with service. And we're right, right then and there. Right, right, right front of your eyes.

[00:40:16] I. Every day. So this came as I'm not surprised. That Ken being the business mogul and the operational king of this industry that he is, that he got involved in behind a software that I wholeheartedly believe in. I've seen what it does. I've seen what it does to people's companies, and I think that the bigger conversation is not so much how many flashy bells and whistles does the software have, but how effective is it inside of your business?

[00:40:48] How, much does it. It's it, the concept is to make your life easier and to grow your business, and that's exactly what it does. I don't know another software that actually I. Literally helps to grow the business on seo, helps to grow the business from a pricing standpoint, being more efficient. It's all about efficiency and that's what Billy is saying.

[00:41:10] Billy, everything that Billy does, everything that I would imagine Ken does is making good use of time. Cuz time is the resource that you can never get back, right? So if you can, get behind a product that saves everybody time, makes everything easier. [00:41:26] Gives you a better flow, a better process then it, does make sense.

[00:41:31] And I think also, don't forget, there was just a round of funding that came through for Sarah. I don't know if you saw that press release, but there was a huge round of funding that was funded entirely by contractors, and they turned down additional investors because they raised so much capital. So this is not going away.

[00:41:52] I think that there's obviously the other software platforms are probably gonna be listen, it's free market. This is America. It's a capitalistic society. There's, room in the market, there's obviously a demand in the market for this. And and it's good. I mean, companies like like field Edge and ServiceTitan and Service Fusion and all these other companies, they, sort of.

[00:42:16] The competition makes the industry better. Right. And I think I and I know that we're getting close to time, but I, think that this is not a knock on any of them, but to your point about Sarah, all the bells and whistles seem cool. Until you don't use them or until it makes it more confusing or until you see all those bells and whistles and you don't have the time to figure out how to use them.

[00:42:46] I don't know how much value is in that. Probably not a whole lot, and the vast majority of contractors don't, they don't use the amount they're paying for a Cadillac, but they're driving like a, a, base model Chevy, whatever. Yeah. So I mean, that's not to say, I mean, some of these other software plans mean the integrations the, usability of, a company like ServiceTitan.

[00:43:12] It's incredible. It's incredible. I mean, no one's gonna knock that. It's an incredible software with incredible plugins and, things. But let's think about who the core contractors are. They are two to seven truck. Guys, right, that are pro, a lot of 'em still in the field, and those guys are your core market.

[00:43:37] Now that, does that mean that there's no room for, I mean, obviously ServiceTitan owns all of the big players, almost all of them. Almost every single major H B A C and plumbing outfit, electrical, whatever. So, yeah. Yeah, that, I think that's why Shock. Why? It's a little shocking that you know that, I mean, it, it does again, I'm not here to, knock service Titan at all.

[00:44:03] But it is eyeopening to see one of their biggest people jump ship. You know what I mean? Interesting. Like I said, man this, industry is changing. Yeah. Well, and you hear the same complaints over and over about about I guess all the companies. But, some of these complaints don't seem to be getting fixed a whole lot.

[00:44:27] Customer service. It's the same shit. Customer service. It's all around, it's all around how you Yeah, but they got too big, too fast. And, I think that's the same for any company that gets too big too fast, right? I mean, you just you, don't have the capacity. You don't have the, you're working with companies that have 40, 50, 60 trucks and you're giving them dedicated people all day long.

[00:44:46] I mean, how much can you spend on a guy who's got four trucks, but to the guy who's got four trucks, that business is everything to him. That business is his mortgage payment. That business is his truck payment. That business is his daughter's dance tuition. He can't afford to have outages because it hurts him way more than it hurts a company that can pay all the resources in the world to have consultants come in and.

[00:45:10] So, no I, totally [00:45:12] agree. Well, hey, dude I really enjoyed this conversation, my man. I, knew I was going to where can everybody find you? I mean all the regular places, man, LinkedIn, Facebook, I'm in, I'm, I'm, in a lot of these groups though I've been fairly quiet recently, intentionally pretty quiet.

[00:45:33] I used to be very loud. I'm very quiet. I'm very busy these days, so, Well, I look, it is what it is. It is what it is. Oh, man. Well, listen, man, appreciate it's been a appreciate good con, good conversation, man. Yeah, I appreciate you, my man. Thanks, brother. You got it.