Recovery, Purpose, and the Missing Piece: B Reeves on New Waters, 12-Step Discipline, and Transcendental Meditation

After a five-month break, Corey is back with B Reeves from New Waters Recovery for a conversation on sobriety, mental health, treatment, meditation, and purpose-driven work. B shares what New Waters Recovery actually does, from detox and residential treatment to psychological assessments, and explains why separating your job from your personal recovery is critical for long-term sobriety.

Corey and B also get into the reality of working in the recovery field, the discipline required to maintain a program, and why willingness matters more than motivation. They talk in depth about transcendental meditation, how it supports peace, clarity, and conscious contact, and why both of them see it as a major part of spiritual growth. The conversation also explores second chances, employment for people in recovery, the challenges of early sobriety, and how meaningful work can help rebuild confidence and direction.

This episode is a practical conversation about recovery that goes beyond quitting substances. It is about doing the work, building structure, finding purpose, and creating a life worth protecting.

In this episode, Corey and B discuss:

What New Waters Recovery offers beyond detox, including mental health assessments and residential treatment, why treatment and recovery are often misunderstood, how B approaches outreach, conferences, and building trusted referral relationships, the importance of not letting your job become your recovery, the concept of being a “two hatter” in recovery and treatment work, how transcendental meditation has helped both Corey and B find more peace and clarity, why meditation can be the missing piece in recovery, the difference between stopping drinking and actually learning how to live, sober curiosity, spiritual growth, and conscious contact, ibogaine, ayahuasca, and the question of shortcuts in recovery, Corey’s new mission to connect people in recovery with second-chance employers, why people in recovery often become exceptional employees, the value of structure, accountability, and willingness in long-term sobriety.

https://newwatersrecovery.com

https://newpathemployment.com

https:newpathemployment.com

 https://www.audible.com/pd/9-Simple-Steps-to-Sell-More-ht-Audiobook/B0D4SJYD4Q?source_code=ASSORAP0511160006&share_location=library_overflow

https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Steps-Sell-More-Stereotypes-ebook/dp/B0BRNSFYG6/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1OSB7HX6FQMHS&keywords=corey+berrier&qid=1674232549&sprefix=%2Caps%2C93&sr=8-1

 https://www.linkedin.com/in/coreysalescoach/

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:01

Welcome to the Successful Life Podcast. I'm your host, Corey Berrier, and we are back after about a five-month break. And we won't dive too much into that, but uh I'm here with my man B. Reeves. What's up, brother? How are you? Corey, what's up, man? It's good to see you. Thank you for having me. Yeah, man. 100%. We've been trying to do this for a minute, and then I took a little hiatus, and uh here we are. So I usually like for people to do their own introduction because you can do it better than I can. So tell everybody a little bit about what you do and all that good stuff.

Speaker 0:36

Sure. So my name is B Reeves. I am with a place here in Raleigh called New Water's Recovery. And people hear that title of a company, and they often think I work for like a some sort of environmental company that takes water and refurbishes it or something. We're a treatment center for adults for substance use disorder and mental health conditions. We do holistic and medical detox and we do short-term residential treatment. What most people think of is rehab. That's what I thought of before. All I knew was from what I'd seen in a couple movies and maybe on a TV show and heard about a person going off to camp or something. And then we also do diagnostic assessments, also known as psychebal or psychic psychological assessments for people who may or may not even drink or use drugs. Most do, but not always, and just have they're just kind of stuck, just trying to figure out kind of what's making them tick and how we can help them be the best version of themselves they can be.

Speaker 1 1:32

Yeah, that's interesting because I didn't until I was there the last time, we as a group or all group, a lot of groups in the rooms, take meetings in to new waters, and it is just amazing. But I did not realize I didn't realize the mental health only part of it until the last time I was there.

Speaker 1:56

Yeah, I mean, it's that's on me. I mean, my job is to make sure everybody knows what what all that we do, but I think we're a little bit of a victim of doing such a good job on the detox part, and part of it, if you Google us, it's the location. If you put in the map, is New Water's recovery and detox. And the vast majority of the clients we see by the numbers are there for detox. So there is that point, but you're you're not in the field. I mean, and I come across people I talk to, I mean, like hundreds of times a year, see them all over the place. We refer each other clients for various reasons, and the oh, I didn't know you did assessments. I'm like, oh my god. But I'm but that's my job is to make people aware of that, and it's a work in progress, like I am myself.

Speaker 1 2:44

Fair enough. So you, I mean, you're you're a super busy dude. So day to day, like you you travel quite a bit. So your goal, well, maybe tell us what the goal is in as much as you travel, and what exactly is it that you're yeah, what is the goal of you traveling so much?

Speaker 3:03

Sure, it's a great question. And I mean, I I have friends who see me traveling and I see them when I'm traveling, and they're like, What are you doing? Like, they I think that a lot of people assume, and and I would probably assume the same thing that I'm going like looking for people who need help, like going and like going to bars and skid row and hospitals. Not the case at all. So, what I'm doing is I'm going most I go to a lot of conferences. So we're a national program, especially for our assessments. So, meaning people come from all over the country and even outside the US for our assessments. And we our detox, we offer a concierge executive track where people, it's a very nice place. It's not so nice that nobody can afford it or anything, but it's very nice that people do come for that. But especially the assessments, people are coming from all over the place. And so, my job, simply put, is to make the phone ring. And so, what I do is create awareness and make sure that people know what we do. So, I'm meeting, like I said, I go to a lot of conferences where I get to meet a lot of people in one fell swoop. And then what I'll do is I'll try to bring them to New Waters to come see us because a lot of times people are investing a lot of time and money for especially for assessments for their loved one and these professionals, interventionists and consultants and therapists, psychiatrists, psychologists, other treatment centers. We want them to feel comfortable knowing where they're sending somebody. And we're very proud of what we do. So we welcome that. And then when I'm kind of traveling beyond the conferences, I um I'm meeting with defense attorneys, therapists, other treatment centers, whether that hospitals, psychologists, psychiatrists, dentists, I mean, like literally anybody who would ever have a reason to send somebody to treatment, just so they know what we do. Because we there, I mean, treatment gets not a great, and it has not a great reputation, and it's earned it. I mean, there are a lot of places that are pretty sketchy out there that are doing that say, hey, this guy came to us, we can't take him again, but we he's got this good insurance, and you give us. I mean, there's a lot of I don't really see it because we work with places who aren't like that, but I know it's out there where there's some sketchy stuff going on, and so I just I try to do the best job I can being a morally centered principal person that I've learned in 12-step recovery, and just to be the face of the company, and and we only want to work with people, places, and providers we like, know, and trust, and we we would expect nothing less from anybody else. So that that's really what I'm doing is out there talking about new waters, making sure people know we do, hopefully liking what they see in me, and then when they come see what we do in person for themselves, and then also the sort of byproduct of that, and the other side of the coin is I get to vet out other people, places, and providers while I'm out in the field, going to visit treatment centers, whether it's an individual provider, a therapist, a doctor, a lawyer, an actual treatment center, and see what they're up to.

Speaker 1 6:02

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. And New Water is extremely nice. I was not so fortunate to go to such a nice place. I was like, this place looks like a fucking Taj Mahal. Like it is really, I mean, really put together and not the organization that I went through was definitely not that for sure. So they do, yeah, it's it is a great place, and I always enjoy when I get to go there and enjoy seeing those guys, and I always feel so good when I leave there. And unfortunately, you don't get to do that because you're an employee there. So, what would you say has been your biggest struggle being in the recovery field and being in recovery? Because I could see how it would be pretty easy to trade what you do for a living for your air quotes recovery because you're talking about it all the time, and one could convince themselves, I would imagine, that I'm still doing my program.

Speaker 7:10

Okay, great question. And I don't know who the first person who said this to me when I started working in this field six years ago, but I would love to find them and thank them because uh the whoever I don't know who said it first, and I've heard it several times since, and I always try to impart this on other people. Do not this person said to me, Whatever you do, do not let your job be your recovery. And I just, for whatever reason, just understood, I got it. And also to back up a little bit, when I was a little over two years sober, this was in the summer of 2020, and I was considering making a a leap to work in this field. I didn't even know this was I went to treatment where I went was not like New Waters, it was fine. It was like I feel like it was kind of like the three bears, the story of the three bears. It was just right. But I was uh I was at this how this meeting at this guy's house during COVID. His wife would cook dinner for like 15 guys, and we'd have a meeting when a lot of the meetings were not happening in person, and we were reading a book called Steps and Stories by Sandy Beach, and it's basically a book of one of his talks. And there, and I'm literally like in the interview process for this my first job in the field. I've worked for I worked for one company, and then while I was there, I had the opportunity to help start this place in Raleigh where I was born and raised, and other than going to treatment in Greensboro, got sober, my recovery community is here, all that. So uh, but my first job was covering seven treatment centers that were kind of scattered around the East Coast. But anyway, so I'm in this interview process, and I'm a little nervous about telling people about it, especially in in the 12 step in the rooms, even though the rooms were kind of at people's houses for the time being then. And uh so we're reading this book as a group, and there's a chapter in the book about the concept of a two-hatter, and it says something to the effect of is it this was written in the 70s, and or he's talking about the 70s. It was it what do we do when people who are in our fellowship want to work in the field in treatment? And I was like so nervous that the next page was gonna say, you can't do it. But luckily, the answer is was and still is to do a two-hatter, uh, where I'm a I'm in recovery and I also work in a treatment center. And so that kind of reinforced that before somebody had to tell me, like, don't let it be, don't let my job be my recovery. But when I started, I just I took that advice so seriously, and I used to say it like this. I don't know how applicable this is anymore, but I I treat my recovery like I work at Sears, like I have my job and I have my recovery. And no matter where I work, hopefully my recovery will complement my job because the way it hopefully does the rest of my life, and vice versa. I'm able to bring some of my job into recovery when it's appropriate. But I am very diligent about not ever talking to myself into thinking, well, I was on the phone with a family until midnight on a Sunday night. Um I don't need to go to that meeting tomorrow. Like, no way. Like I am, I'm very uh I'm rigid about it, probably to a fault, according to some people, but it's worked, and I've seen it happen often, honestly. The guy, ironically, who got me into the field, was a guy I knew. We played little league baseball together in Raleigh in the 80s and like early 90s. I mean, I was in probably 1990 was the last time I saw this guy until 2018, and he was working in the field, and he actually is the one who suggested I I work in it, and he was the victim of that that self-talk. Like, hey, I'm helping people, but like I get I get we I get paid to do my job. That's the deal. Like that what I get paid to do, I do, and then I have my recovery. That was a long answer, but that's the answer.

Speaker 1 11:15

Yeah, it seems like a good philosophy, but I could see how the lines could get blurred, and we'll convince ourselves of all kinds of shit. So I commend you for being able to separate the two because it thank god you got that advice and read that book early on, because otherwise, who knows? I mean, I'm sure that it affects a lot of folks.

Speaker 11:35

It I see it all the time, and I try to not ever tell people what to do. I always, I'm sure I've done it, I'm sure I've done it in the kind of two you, the second person, you do the but I try to always say, hey, the best advice I ever got was do not let this my job be my recovery. It's dangerous, it's a slippery slope.

Speaker 1 11:56

Yeah, and I'll tell you the other thing that you do really well, or at least in the meetings that I've been in with you, I've never once heard you in a meeting talk about your job because boy, it would be pretty easy just to drop the fact that you work at a recovery center in hopes that somebody's gonna hear it. But I think that would be I think that would probably go against uh, I would imagine go against your moral compass.

Speaker 12:28

Yeah, I would never do that.

Speaker 1 12:30

Yeah.

Speaker 12:31

I'm actually you ask kind of what's what are what's challenging about the job. The it's a little challenging sometimes that I never wanna like I'm very open in a in 12-step room room.

Speaker 1 12:43

Whatever.

Speaker 12:46

But I uh there is part of me that probably would like be a little bit more vague about what I'm talking about, you know, if I'm sharing about work stuff in the rooms, because I'd I don't wanna the same way I wouldn't use somebody's name, and it I'm probably just my ego being sensitive that people are that care enough about me and what I'm saying, but you have to be like, oh well, if he's has an issue with somebody at his job, then that place must suck, which is crazy to think. But I mean we're sick. The another thing that's sort of in that vein is in a previous life. I was a financial advisor, I've had a lot of previous lives before my sober life, and I know sometimes people who are sell insurance or financial advisors or fundraising when they walk into a party or any anything where it's a kid's t-ball game, or they're like, oh god, here he comes. And there is a little bit of me that because I grew up in Raleigh and like my whole like my family lives here and friends, and I've been around forever, and I'm still I'm my life is very different now, but I'm still a part of society way more than I was 10 years ago, was eight years ago, especially when it was the beginning, the end of my drinking and using. But uh I there is a little part of me that when I'm in a especially at a social function, that people are thinking, oh god, here comes B is gonna try to make me get sober and go to treatment. It couldn't be further from the truth, but I probably but it's the same sort of it comes from the same part of the brain, I think.

Speaker 1 14:24

Yeah, yeah, I can see that. Yeah, it's interesting when people when you are with people that do drink, they're like, Are you sh I are you I don't have to drink tonight? I'm like, fucking have at it. Like I don't care, could care less because guess what? If you have too many, I'm just gonna leave. Yeah, like I don't say that, but like you get what I'm saying. Like it does not bother me, but maybe it's just because I've been sober long enough that that I don't have the obsession, like the obsession's been lifted, it's gone. I don't deal with the worry about whether or not I'm gonna drink. Yeah, now I do I certainly have life things that come up that which is really what the program is about is dealing with the life things. The drinkings that goes away pretty quick. I mean, through the detoxing and all that stuff, which is not fun, don't get me wrong. Yeah, but it's the life stuff that we're getting taught about and learning about, and that the I think a lot of people miss that. They think this is just an opportunity to stop drinking, but and that is part of it, but it's a very small part of it, it's a very small part of it, and that's why it even says it in the book.

Speaker 15:32

I mean, we kind of laugh when people start talking about work's going well, feel so much better. It's like you have no idea, man. Like, that's nothing. That's nothing. And I wanted to ask you something. I've got a couple things I wanted to ask you, even though I'm you're interviewing me here. I one is you started doing transcendental meditation in the last like two months, right? I want to hear how's that going for you?

Speaker 1 15:58

Well, I appreciate you asking because that was definitely going to be one of the questions I was gonna ask you. So this is let's talk about it. Yeah, so November 3rd is when I went and did my training, and I have literally not missed a single day since November 3rd. And it's the missing piece in my recovery. It was the missing piece in my recovery. Part of me taking off this last five months and not being on social media for the last five months is just to really regroup and figure out who I am and who I'm not. And through transcendental meditation, I've been able to, I've been able to get a lot clearer on that. And there I look forward to it every day. For folks that don't know what transcendental meditation is, you go learn from a teacher, it's about an hour, he says a bunch of crazy shit, and you're not really sure what it is, and you bring some weird things. And then at the end of it, I guess based on the information you've given the teacher, they give you a mantra, and it's really simple, it's not long, it's two syllables or whatever. And for twice a day, you're supposed to sit and say this mantra in silence, which I thought for a guy like me that would be impossible to do. But every day I look forward to those two times, and sometimes I'll slide a third one in because I just get so much peace. I get so much peace and serenity, and I'll be honest, before I started TM, I I didn't know what serenity was. I had no, I could not somebody asked me what is serenity. I have no idea, but it's given me the ability to discover who I am and who I'm not, and who I don't want to show up as, and quite frankly, who I have showed up as for a large part of my life, which is there's a lot of fear there. There's a lot of starting this podcast, so people would think that that I was something that I wasn't at the time. And so separating myself from this and uh really figuring out why what is the purpose of this, and what is the purpose of anything that I do. And so I went through a few job changes this year, and then I think TM has given me the present to see what my purpose is. That's what I think it's done for me. That's what I know it's done for me.

Speaker 18:58

I hear you. I'm so happy you're doing it. My I don't know too many people who I know my little brother has been doing it. I have one brother, I don't need to really clarify which one. My brother he's been doing it now for probably I think maybe four, at least three years. I've been doing it for a little over six, and then one of my our my best friends, Brad, he's been doing it for a little less than me, probably five, and then our buddy Richard, he's been doing it for I think a year or less than me. We got a nice little group of people, and it we saw it through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood in praying only for knowledge of his will for us and the power to carry that out. And while we don't talk during TM and I do we do listen, I do. And even though I'm thinking the mantra, and then sometimes it I guess in a perfect one, start thinking the mantra, and then it's just over. Nothing you don't even remember what happened, and it's like you kind of come out of it, you feel like you've been asleep for a long time, they got that taste in your mouth. But there are plenty of times where thoughts are coming and going and they bubble up and go away, and and that's kind of where I hear God. And uh so praying, talking to, and then meditating, listening to. And I uh when I was I started meditating right away when I got sober, and I didn't know anything about it. Like, I mean, I tell anybody who will listen, if I knew it existed, I thought it was for kooks, and that included meditation. I didn't know anything about sponsorship and inventory and gratitude lists and serve. I mean, I didn't know any of that, so I couldn't pick on that and poo poo it yet. But meditation I thought was ridiculous, but they told me to do it. Y'all told me to do it, so I do, and I started out just kind of freestyling and using apps, but I always did it twice a day. But then I kind of I read this book about Andy Kaufman in 2005, and they kept talking about transital meditation in this book, and I was like, what is that? Sounds like it's it was very I was intrigued, but of course was too lazy to look into it, and uh, but then I get sober, start meditating, and then like that, it just starts popping up out of a few different avenues, and I was like, All right, I'm done wondering what this is. And I went to one of those information sessions and I was like, I'm in, and I started doing it, and then I think I've told you this. I was selling software to law firms at the time, and I had this awesome boss, and we were a bunch of guys, and and our boss was a woman who managed these like sales guys. I mean, I was sober, but I was still a jackass. Still can't be, but um, but we're all especially me, just yelling. I'd get off a call and just be yelling obscenities and a lot for effect and to be funny and to also get some seam out. I wasn't even really that mad, really. But like a little bit of that, but just but inappropriate beyond belief. And I started doing TM because she knew what I was doing, because she let me go to Durham a few times during that week to go through the process. And uh and about maybe less than a month later, she was like, What are you, whatever you're doing, it's really working. I was like, What do you mean? And she said, You stop yelling at people. And I was like, Oh yeah, I had. And I and if I could sum it up, I would say it calms me down and gives me energy. I'm so rarely ever tired. And I get upset, but I'm I'm almost never really that mad. I'm just not. And I used to be always mad, like just something, just even so for two years. I was still always just like, oh man, that thing, that that person, you know, that waiter, whatever it was, just something. I was just always mad, and I'm just not like that anymore. And a lot of I I give I credit TM to a big chunk of that.

Speaker 1 23:00

Yeah, I um yeah, I agree. I tell you the other thing that thinks interesting. I was talking to Charlie earlier today, and uh he said, uh we were talking about my conception of God. And I said, I said, Charlie, I'm really we're reading we agnostics. And I said, I I said, I don't I've really thought hard about this and I've tried to figure this thing out, but like I don't really know what this thing is I'm supposed to be doing. He said, Well, think about somebody that you trust. He said, think about if they said go do this thing, you trusted them, you would go do this thing. I said, he said, well that obviously you trust me because you listen to me. I said, most of the time. I said, but the guy, the TM teacher, I said, he told me all of these certain things were gonna happen for me. And they were unrealistic, most of them. And they've a hundred percent come true. It's just wild to me that sitting twice a day in silence could do the things that he said. It's just it's bizarre. It's just bizarre to me. It's I think for anybody listening, if if you feel chaotic, like B just explained, and I had the same thing. And really, I this is for me, it was the missing piece, as I said. It also I think has because I'm a um I want to do things the right way. So I'm gonna sit through those 20 minutes twice a day, no matter what. And so therefore, I can't do anything else. So therefore, my control issues is off the table twice a day. I can't do anything else, and I never thought about it like that.

Speaker 25:04

That's a great point.

Speaker 1 25:06

I I swear to God, I think that it's kept me from trying to control everything around me.

Speaker 25:13

That's a great way to look at it. I never thought about it. You're but you're so right. And on that point, I it the word willingness, if I had to pick, if I could only pick one word to sum up recovery, I would pick willingness. I mean they're all important and they're all pretty much equally important. But if I had to pick the one, and then it comes to being willing to do this, because there's so many days where I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it, and I but I always do it, I'm willing to do it, and then whether I'm in an airport, sitting in like a hotel lobby, on the plane, in the car with somebody. I mean, because sometimes I'm up against the clock, I'm like, I gotta get this done. And the crazy thing is, I never know when I'm gonna have a really good one, quote, because they're all good. It's all good, and it's cumulative. That's the thing. Another thing I want to we should talk about is yeah, there are times where I come out of it and I'm like, oh man, I'm so refreshed and rested and peaceful. But it's more for me, it's way more about the cumulative effect of continuing to do this twice a day, every day. But like sometimes all everything in life, like work is going well, relationship, no financial insecurity. I've been to the gym that day, it's a beautiful day. Somebody just complimented me on my new haircut, like whatever. Everything's great. And I sit down to meditate, and then all I do is think about all the stuff I don't want to think about. And then there are other times where I'm like, everything's falling apart, work is not going well. Somebody just told me I got the worst haircut they've ever seen, relationship trouble, worried about it, whatever. And I sit down and it's the most peaceful 22 minutes of my life. So that that, but that but the willingness to do it is just to keep coming back to that too. And I always say this little prayer, God, please help me get closer to you through meditation and help me tap into my being. I have no idea where that came from. If somewhat if I read that somewhere, but kind of to your point, like all this stuff that's happening for you, it's all in there. It's all we it's all in there in this being, like the sap in a tree that we just got to be able to get to. And for TM is how I get to that being.

Speaker 1 27:37

I haven't had to do it really in any other like airplane or just because I haven't been in an airplane since November. It doesn't really matter, it doesn't really matter so far where I've been because there's a level of and I don't want to say focus because it you're not really focused, but there's a level of separation from the world during that 22 minutes.

Speaker 28:13

Definitely and my brother who meditates, when I'm when he's in Raleigh or we're I'm in Greensboro, we're somewhere together, the beach or whatever. We try to always when we're both, let's say we're both driving from Raleigh and Greensboro respectively, like they don't meditate yet, we'll do it together. And there's I've been on doing it with just him is powerful. I've done it in group settings in person, I've done it on group settings online, and I can feel it. I mean, it's true. I mean, it's a really amazing thing, and I just thought it was ridiculous before, even though TM itself I was interested in, but meditation in general, when I heard it, I was just like, this is for like new age kooks. And and I do also want to say if anybody's listening to this who's considering meditating, or they do like it's all good. This is just what I ended up doing, and you ended up doing, it's all good. I'm just I'm just glad that I found TM because the it all of it is good, there's no question about that.

Speaker 1 29:16

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I I uh yeah, I look forward to it. And sometimes they do encourage you to do it first thing in the morning, but I get up pretty early, uh, start my day fairly early. And so what I found is that if I do have something personally rolling around in my head and I don't do it first thing, that does magnify a little bit until I do it.

Speaker 29:43

But I've actually got absolutely right.

Speaker 1 29:46

So are there times that you wait till 10 o'clock in the morning to do it? I guess there are times yes.

Speaker 29:51

Well, honestly, today, so I got home from a trip really late last night, and uh I didn't get to bed till like 1:30. So I didn't wake up until 7:30 today, and my immediately my day got so I haven't even done my morning yet. So I'll end up doing my morning meditation, which this hasn't happened much, but every now and then, like I'll do it after this podcast and I'll eat dinner, go to a meeting, and then do my afternoon evening at probably like 8:30. But to in a perfect world, I get up, I pray, take a shower, I meditate, then I do my readings, and I try to do all that without looking, even though I have to use my phone for the use the timer on the TM app, I try not to look at any emails or text or Instagram. I mean, I fail at that a lot, but like I do try because you know, one little text from somebody, even even if it's totally insignificant, but somebody you don't want to hear from or who drives you crazy, you're like, oh, but um but to your point though, it's funny. It's like I used to do this journaling process every morning. I did this thing called the artist's way, which is this 12-step adjacent thing, reawakening the creative in you. It's not just for people in recovery, but but the woman who wrote it, it's in recovery, and it's 12 sections, like 12 steps, whatever. But there's a thing called the morning pages where the first thing you write, just like stream of consciousness for three to five minutes, never take your pen off the page. And that and doing that, I used to do that before I would meditate. And uh I got so much crap out of my thought, you know, that right from my sick mind out of my out of my hand onto the paper. And and it would and meditations like that too. Sometimes when I've got something going on, it and I sit down to meditate, and the the stuff that kind of bubbles up while meditating, it's almost like I'm kind of getting it out of the way. It doesn't mean it goes away or the problem is solved, but it's almost like a compacted, compressed anxiety that would have like kind of come to me in bits and pieces throughout the day. And I kind of it's almost like I get it over with.

Speaker 1 32:02

Yeah, well, and so to that exact point, there and what I enjoy, what I really love about TM is as you mentioned earlier, like it doesn't matter if it is all over the place because they say those are thoughts that are cycling in and out, and once you deal with them in meditation, then they're not that your problems are gonna go away, but like whatever this thing is that's coming to you, you're working through it in that process. Exactly. I mean, it's I've been it's made me emotional before, it's uh lots of different things, but it I don't know, man. I just I can't say enough good things about it.

Speaker 32:46

Same here, and we'll move on. But I'll when Bill talks about being rocketed in the fourth dimension. I think that that meta TM is like a turbo booster for that.

Speaker 1 32:56

Yeah, and as we found out, Bill W.

Speaker 32:59

Yeah, let's yeah, that yeah, let's do talk about that piece. So when I went to learn to do the when I went to the TM center of the triangle, I didn't know this. The guy told me, he goes, Well, you this guy's not sober, he's not an AA guy. But he goes, he said, Why are you here? I said, Well, I'm in recovery, and part of the 12 steps is includes meditation. He said, Well, you know, Bill Wilson learned to do TM. I was like, What? And I didn't know that. And then there's this documentary, The Conscious Contact, that just came out about how Bill learned through a TM instructor at the end of his life and got a mantra and loved it and did it, I guess, until he died. It's really cool.

Speaker 1 33:38

Yeah, yeah, it is cool. I was just blown away at that document. I could not, and then it solidified the missing piece, it solidified it for me.

Speaker 33:47

Yeah, I mean he said that, but Bill basically said that. Like, I wish I had known about this.

Speaker 1 33:51

Yeah, yeah, really yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, I bet most people don't know that. I certainly didn't, yeah, that's for sure. So you've got a podcast. What's the name of it? Remind me. We do.

Speaker 34:02

I I don't want to say I do. New or we do at New Waters Recovery, we have a podcast called Finding New Waters that is basically aimed at in general wellness, we treatment, recovery, anything kind of adjacent, behavioral health. We're not, it's not just uh war stories or hearing people how they got sober. That's always part of it. But like we've had authors and chefs and interventionists and doctors and all sorts of people talking about different perspectives on general wellness and recovery. And my whole thing, it's I mean, same way you are like if this helps one person, that's what it's all about. And if people see it and want to call new waters, that's great too. But like, it's really just to be one more way for people, especially somebody who is maybe sober curious, and they're just like, Man, I don't have the courage to make that call yet, or but they will maybe see a clip of somebody saying something that was encouraging and looking like, hey, that guy, I relate to that guy. I mean, if that guy can do it, I can do it, that kind of thing. And uh it's like I personally love doing it. I actually like doing this better. I'd rather be on the being interviewed than the interviewer. But uh, but yeah, finding new waters, it's on Spotify and Apple and YouTube, it's everywhere you can get a podcast. It's really it's great.

Speaker 1 35:28

Yeah, it is good. I've listened to several episodes. So I'm gonna ask you a potentially a controversial question. I don't know if you'll know anything about this whatsoever, but I was listening to have you ever heard of the ibogaine initiative?

Speaker 35:44

I know what ibogain is, yeah. Okay, ayahuasca.

Speaker 1 35:48

I don't know exactly what it is, but let's just say it's like ayahuasca. I've done ayahuasca several times, and I don't know if it's just like that. It sounds like it's a much more rigorous situation.

Speaker 35:58

You've done ayahuasca six times, yeah. Really?

Speaker 1 36:02

Okay, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 36:03

Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 36:07

Look, there ain't nothing fun about ayahuasca, I can tell you.

Speaker 36:10

Yeah, I'm I'm good. No thanks.

Speaker 1 36:11

Yeah, yeah. It's but they well, the truth of the matter is the reason I went to do it is I was searching for God. I was searching for something that would solve my dry drunk problem and uh didn't find it.

Speaker 36:30

Well, I hear you. Well, what's the tell me what is the I Begain I Begain initiative?

Speaker 1 36:35

Okay, so it's in Texas. The there's a Republican, ex-Republican governor named Rick Perry. Rogan just came out with the show, and they're talking about how it basically fixes. I don't know when my what let me be clear. When I say fixes addiction, PTSD, it's I think the way they describe it is it make it's kind of like you start over at a blank slate. Okay, it does not fix it. Obviously, it's not going to be the same as working the program where you're learning about life and alternatives to how you can handle things and learning more about yourself, but it does, I guess, for the lack of better terms, sort of erase the need to fill the empty hole with a substance, as well as people that have had massive PTSD, and there's a ton of studies on it, and I just find it really fascinating because the addiction side of it's fascinating, but it doesn't solve the whole problem, but I think it could be a jump start to people getting more sober, and they say it takes, I don't know, 72 hours and the addiction, people are not addicted anymore.

Speaker 38:09

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I mean, my so my personal take is I just wouldn't do that. This is me. I'm partially because I'm afraid that I'd be the if there's even a percentage of people who go to that dark side and see Satan and I'd be stuck there in the nether world forever. So I there's that. And then I I don't know. I mean, it's kind of like you said you did ayahuasca six times looking for God, and you really sounds like maybe you found more of a path in TM. And like, but let me also say, if somebody's got PT, I mean, like, I'm all about anything that's gonna help somebody get better, whatever that looks like. It just for me, it just kind of think it makes me think of in the book where it talks about until science basically something the equivalent of until science can like cure addiction or whatever alcoholism, then we we have this, and it's not a cure. It's a I mean it sounds like a bit of a shortcut for people who don't really need it for PTSD. But man, I I'm personally, I'm not like for I wouldn't do like ketamine therapy. I mean, I will actually I'm not saying I wouldn't. I'm saying for me the way I am right now, I would not do that. But I'm but I don't think that this is like people need to like about a sponsee who went to ketamine therapy under clinical supervision and needed it for something. That's not like, hey, you got to pick up a white chip and start a program. Same with ayahuasca, Ibogaine, stuff like that. I just personally am like A, scared that I would get stuck into the nether in the nether world. B I just it's almost like trying to have a manufactured white light spiritual experience like Bill did in the Towns Hospital in bed, trying to have like to force that, versus having the spiritual experience of the educational variety through working the 12 steps on a daily basis. That's kind of how I look at it.

Speaker 1 40:11

Yeah, I agree with you because there's so much you would be missing. And okay, so think about it like this when you the first day you picked up a white chip. If this if you had this option, I don't know about you, I would have probably taken it. Like, yeah, because I don't want to do the work, I don't want to do all that work, of course. So I would have taken the easy way out, and then I would have look, I was a dry drunk for quite some time in a complete, absolute nightmare. And uh that that would be the direct result from my opinion. I don't know that because I've never done ibegaine, but I mean, I did ayahuasca, and that was still the result, is that I didn't have a I mean, I had some sort of an experience, but it wasn't what I have now, yeah. And plus, like I don't struggle with the obsession to drink. I don't struggle with that. I don't that has been lifted for me. So for me, yeah, it would be pointless for me to do because I've already gotten past the thing that you're trying to get past by taking the Ibogaine or whatever.

unknown 41:20

Yeah.

Speaker 41:20

I mean, like right now, being almost eight years sober and having been through the steps and sponsored people and done work the steps since then, and like being in a pretty good place, if all of a sudden I had a situation where either something happened to me now that was so traumatic or like somehow like I bumped my head and tapped into some memory I wasn't aware of. I mean, look that like, yeah, I'm all I'm like I'm all about people just getting better. But for me, and as a 12-step recovery guy, I just yeah, it's like a shortcut to me for me, but um, but there's a place for that stuff for sure. But I mean, just as a society, we're always everyone wants to feel good without the work. And it's funny, I was playing golf with two buddies yesterday, and they were asking me about success rates in treatment and recovery, and I was like, man, it's not good, honestly. I hate to admit it, but it's just not. And I and then I said the success rates in the early days were way better, and they were asking why, and I said, Well, a lot of people were so hopeless that they really and truly had no other option, other it was either death, jail's death, institution, or turning it over to a God of your understanding and and working the 12 steps. And so that was when it when the choices are those. Basically, you go this way and find serenity and purpose order, these this way that's really a three-pronged one way to misery and death, an easier choice. And then now people are not this with while the stigma gets lifted, I think it makes people more willing to kind of dip their toe in before they maybe otherwise would have, and then they don't take it as seriously. That's just an opinion. I don't know how true that is. But either way, and I said also people just they're just not really willing to do the work, and these guys, like kind of like we talked about at the beginning, they're these are just normal normal guys, they don't know what anything that I'm talking about. And they're like, work, what do you mean? I'm like, Well, prayer, meditation, inventory, amends, service work, gratitude list, sponsoring people, being sponsored, like just naming all the stuff. They're like, What it, what do you what is that? Like, I know it's prayer, attitude, but like because they but to to the average person, it's like, oh, he's quit drinking, so now he's good, right? Like, no, takes a lot, takes a lot for me, at least.

Speaker 1 43:46

Takes a yeah, it yeah, it sure. And I don't know which one of those things it takes right. There's no way to point to just one of those things because every week it's another one, it's one of those things, and it's There isn't just one thing. You kind of have to do all of it in order to get the result that you're really wanting. And you have to be willing. You do have to be willing. And that part's very difficult for folks.

Speaker 44:15

It really is. And but then when like if I'm talking to somebody who's new, it's like, well, how much time did you spend drinking, using, waiting for drug dealers, waiting for liquor stores to open, lying to everybody, sleeping all day, not being able to do anything productive because you're so hungover and or drunk or high? And like you compare that to meditating for 22 minutes twice a day and praying and sending some gratitude lists and talking to people going to a meeting, it's nothing.

unknown 44:47

Right.

Speaker 44:49

I mean, even the time-wise, it's just nothing. But it's just but back to the word willingness is because it's who people don't want to do it. I didn't want to do it at first, and there are days now when I don't want to do it, but I always do it.

Speaker 1 45:01

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it is what are you doing now?

Speaker 45:06

You said you got some new you're you got a new thing you're working on, right?

Speaker 1 45:09

Yeah, so I've part of I think this TM thing, and uh just being patient and not taking a job for the money and driving Uber every day. And like I don't even mind it, to be perfectly frank with you. I've done it. Yeah, I don't know 12 years ago. I did it. I mean, it's yeah, so so New Path Employment is the new business, and I'm connecting people in recovery with employers that are willing to hire people that need a second chance. And the reason for this is not for me to make money. The mission is because when so I stopped drinking 17 years ago. Let me be clear, I wasn't sober. I was sober then, but had some weed situation for quite some time and dry drunk and yada yada yada. And so I'm a convicted felon. I've had DUIs, and uh it was very difficult to find a job because when people see those things on your record, especially fresh, they're not it's hard to get an opportunity unless you know where to go. And so I know there's a on two hands, I can count people in the rooms that are struggling to find jobs because of those reasons. And we've got the healing plates here, which or healing transitions here, that is the largest recovery center, I believe, in Raleigh, which I think there's about 250 guys there. And they work really hard to on their recovery only to go out and have that they have to take a job at, and I'm not saying that this is a terrible job, but at the farmer's market or a job that maybe they're not really don't have really a path to any sort of fulfillment or success. And so my goal is to be able to set these guys up with employers that have a path and can provide them with uh a decent wage uh early on. And look, there's value in that sober job. Okay, so I don't want to take away from the fact that when you first get sober, some most of the time, if you're not willing to take that shitty job, then you're gonna struggle. And part of the willingness to take that is that you get to the next thing. Well, if we could just level up that first sober job, then I think the success rate would be higher because your confidence is super low when you first get sober. I mean, your recovery confidence is pretty good, but outside of that, you still feel like you kind of got to keep your recovery stuff to yourself and you don't know when to talk about it. And maybe this has happened to me where I've gone in and said proudly how long I've been sober, and they're like, Well, you're a fucking you're a flight risk for sure. They didn't say that to my face, but I certainly didn't get the job, and I'm like, You should be happy I'm sober. Like, you you have no idea what I be like, but they don't care. People don't and they shouldn't care. They don't know, they're not supposed to know, right? And so my job will be to advocate for these guys. I'm gonna work with them one-on-one and understand like what is their program, how sober are they? I I'm gonna go as far as speaking to the people that are around them because I want to know that you're doing the deal because I know if you're doing the deal, you're gonna show up for work. I know that you're gonna do a good job. The best, some of the best employees in the world are people in recovery because they've been to the bottom of the barrel. And when you climb out of that bottom, man, you've been through a really tough time. And so my hope is that I'm speaking to employers now. I'm in the process of getting them onboarded to find out, all right, what positions are they looking for? And then I can come go out into the community and find people that can fit those positions. And there's gonna be coaching involved, and there's gonna be, like I said, one-on-one time. They need an interview process, like these guys need somebody to advocate for them. And uh, you guys at New Waters, I know, hire people that are in recovery. So just may ask you, what's been your experience with that?

Speaker 49:56

I mean, we've we have a lot of our staff came from healing transitions, and they are some of our best employees, and they when they run groups, and we have amazing therapists at New Waters, master's level therapists who are just awesome, and the clients love the insight and the real like clinical they get out of them, but they also really love hearing people who have been to hell and back, so yeah, they're I mean it's I would say that they are the percentage of them being great employees is higher than the people who didn't come from like for sure. It's impressive.

Speaker 1 50:39

And would you say that's probably because they've seen rough really rough times?

Speaker 50:46

Definitely. It's yeah, yes, and that they are in real deal recovery doing the deal. 12 step working steps, been through the steps, like that's sponsor guys, have sponsors, like we're women, whatever. But yeah, so yes, but for sure that they've been to hell and back, and especially for that recovery skills group, but just as an employee in general, I mean, just they're accountable and they're they're ethical, and they're they if they are gonna be late, they say I'm late, I'm not gonna say what I'm not gonna make up an excuse. They're accountable and living the life, living the life in recovery. Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 51:28

So that's that so that's it. And um, I'm really excited about it. And it's one of those situations, I think, since this came to me. When you're I guess the easiest way to say is when you're in flow with what you're doing, things just work. Things just flow into my have flown have flowed into my life this week that are you really can't make it up. And these things happen so often when you do when you do get sober and and work the program the way we're taught to work it, and through TM. Like these things just I don't know. I can't, it's hard to explain to the normal person. It doesn't have to be so tough. You don't have to make it so tough. And I'm willing, I do make things tough, but this has been I don't want to say seamless, but there's been some really interesting things that that have happened that just don't even make sense, other than I know I'm in the right spot.

Speaker 52:42

I hear well, congrats. That's really cool. I mean, it's much needed, uh and I'm happy to help in any way I can, and uh hopefully we can be one of those places.

Speaker 1 52:52

Yeah, it's uh yeah, I'm very excited, and I'm most excited about being able to work with the guys, and part of the reason I wanted to you to tell me more about the different separating recovery from your recovery is because I'm gonna be up against that in this situation for sure. Working with these guys one-on-one is gonna feel like I'm working with the sponsee, but it's not the same.

Speaker 53:23

No, it's not. It's that's just have to, I just have to remind myself that this is work, and again, I can employ the principles of 12-step recovery to this, but this does not count as my recovery, it just doesn't, right? I just I don't know. It uh it's gotten easier over time for me to make that separation, but I'm glad I'm always glad to talk about it because if nothing else, it reminds it's just another the more I talk about it, the more accountable to that I am.

Speaker 1 53:56

Yeah, for sure. So so how long have you been doing the podcast with New Waters?

Speaker 54:03

So we've been open a little over three and a half. We opened October 5th, 2022. We've been doing the podcast since we started. I started doing them. We kind of mixed up the hosts for the first little while, and then I've been, I don't know, I've probably hosted 200 of them, maybe 150, two, I don't know, a lot of them. Either just me or Justin, our CEO, he's usually on there with me.

Speaker 1 54:31

Yeah. And Justin, what I'm curious what his background was before opening New Water.

Speaker 54:38

So he was not the founder. So he and I, and the group, and there are five of us who were all there at the beginning. There was one founder who's no longer there. But when Justin, I've known Justin for about six years since I started working in this field. He he was a therapist in a place called the Hanley Center in West Palm Beach, Florida, great treatment center, old school, 12-step, awesome place. And then he moved to Raleigh, and he was the clinical director at Wellwyn. And then he was the clinical director at Gupta, now known as GPW wellness, Gupta Wellness, Gupta Psychiatry. And then he and I and a few others kind of went along with that original CEO came to to start New Waters. And again, I want to be clear, I did not start New Waters. I was it was not my idea. I'm not the founder, but I was one of the original people who did what some others started.

Speaker 1 55:29

Yeah. So what's been your so now and I was gonna ask you this earlier. So New Waters, as I knew it, at least in I think until recently, was about a seven to eight, seven to nine day program, but that's extended now, right?

Speaker 55:45

So it's always been it's yes and no. So the minimum length of stay is seven days. Okay. And that is for like an alcohol detox is gonna be seven days, unless there's some extenuating circumstance. And then heavy benzos or opiates sometimes can be more like 10-day detox. And then people can extend, and so the highest level of care is the emergency room, and then comes detox, and then comes residential, and then PHP, and then Iop. So we do the next thing after an emergency room is detox, and then we do residential. So people can step down, we call it, and extend. So, and then the assessments, people don't always need to do detox before, sometimes so. It's a long way of saying the longest anybody's ever with us is around three weeks or so. But we had one guy who was there for 26 days, which was an outlier. Most people are there for the average length of stay is like 8.5 days, just because most people are really only there for seven. And then if you add factor in the other ones who are there longer, yeah.

Speaker 1 56:50

Okay, and so you so once they complete, let's just call it that seven-day stint, you all help them find hope. I think hopefully, it would seem hopefully to me that they would find an extended place 30 days, 60 days, 90 days for the people. I mean, I don't know if you would know this statistic or not, but for the people that don't take that option, that don't go to a 30, 60, 90 day program, what's the chances of you seeing them back there?

Speaker 57:22

I don't know about the I don't know, I don't have a like a percentage number, but I will say there are circumstances where people like we get it. Sometimes somebody's a single mom, single dad cannot go to further treatment. But if they go to follow recommendations, get a therapist, I whatever it is, they're gonna be alright. And um, but the longer the runway, the better off somebody's gonna be. But then again, I mean that that's true for sure. The numbers are definitely support residential after detox, but and we we really good at getting people to keep going to treatment for sure. But you know, it's all about the work like we just talked about. It's like I do, and one thing about detox when people do leave without with when they don't go to further treatment, it can be a false sense of security because especially if this is their first time, and they are you people come in on death's door, and then in a very short amount of time they feel better physically, spiritually, emotionally, mentally, and they're like, I'm better. And it's like, yeah, you're a lot better than you were seven days ago, but you were not better. I'm not better, I'm never gonna be all the way better. But they but you know, they're so much better than they were the day they got there that they that's this false sense of security. No matter how much we tell them, they don't always believe us, and they kind of sometimes have to find out for themselves, unfortunately.

Speaker 1 59:04

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 59:07

But we have a team of three continuing care coordinators, four therapists, me, who because I'm the one who's usually been to most of the places to for tours and stuff, who are constantly working with people to get them to another the next level of care where wherever they need to go back. If it's further treatment somewhere, great. If it's an outpatient somewhere in Ms. Montana, great, we got that. But we have a team that's just working on a treatment plan for everybody.

Speaker 1 59:37

So that kind of comes full circle to your job description, really, because of what you do, you're able to provide those resources.

Speaker 59:45

Absolutely, yeah. And if I don't know the answer, which is very often, I just I've got a network of people. Hey, I need a young adult program for mail in Minnesota, and they need it that takes insurance out of network. And within a five seconds, I'll have 10 people send me back answers, yeah.

Speaker 1 1:00:06

That's amazing. Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. Do you usually do I guess there's a probably not a usual, I guess, because you have people from all different areas, you send them, I guess, all to all different areas, right? Do you try to send them to somewhere close by, even if they live out of state, or uh it depends.

Speaker 1:00:26

I mean, so it's kind of like in in some cases, I think, especially with younger young adults, I think it's really important to get them away from home. But wherever we go, there we are. So it's kind of uh but with young adults, I think it's helpful to get them with other young adults away from home. So they're not sitting 10 miles or close enough where it's tempting to be like, well, all my friends or whatever, driving around drinking and whatever they're doing, just to get away. But um, but we we utilize places literally all over the country, like California, Maine, Florida, Texas, Colorado, Utah, Arizona, I mean, literally all over.

Speaker 1 1:01:13

Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. So I know that we're getting close on time, B. If there's anything that you wanted to share with the audience about anything about new waters or anything that would encourage somebody to uh to live the same, to get the opportunity to live the same life as as you and I get to live, what would that be?

Speaker 1:01:35

Yeah, well, um I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to just to answer this. And I'll just say this, I'm glad that this came up here. Before I went to treatment, I didn't know anything. And if I ever heard the word detox or thought about it, I imagine being handcuffed to a radiator and told to sweat for a week. And back to the gold, I went to a place that was just right. It was not like New Water's nice, but it definitely wasn't dump. It was perfect. And where I went, it was definitely not like that, it was very nice. And it's a long way of saying that it's not that bad. It's just not. The word detox scares scares the shit out of everybody, like it did me. And it it's that's not the most fun thing I've ever done, but I'm glad I did because I need to remember that it wasn't fun. And New Waters is a very nice place, and we have acupuncture, massage therapy, IV therapy, sauna therapy, breath work, meditation, not this kind, but we have med guided meditation, yoga, chef prepared meals. We have private rooms, semi-private rooms, a gym. It's so nice, but that's all material stuff, man. Like it the care there is just the best. And like I mentioned, I used to work for a group of treatment centers. I've been to treatment, and I've been to probably hundreds of them for my job, and there's nothing quite like it. And it's just it's a really I'm very lucky to be part of it. I'm really happy that our that Raleigh has this, even though it's a resource for people all over the world, really. But to have this amazing treatment center right here in Raleigh, it's pretty cool.

Speaker 1 1:03:08

Are there aspirations to continue building and duplicating this model?

Speaker 1:03:15

No, I mean, I wouldn't say duplicating, but we're always looking at ways we can expand our services.

Speaker 1 1:03:21

Yeah, very nice. Well, B, I appreciate it, my friend. And uh, if anybody's listening that wants to find new waters, where would they go to do that or to contact you or yeah?

Speaker 1:03:32

I mean, I my personal cell phone is 919-649-7698. I'll say it again. 919-649-7698. And before I'm a person who works at a treatment center, I'm a guy in recovery and I just want to help, man, because I know that when I talk to, but people who didn't know what they were talking about were telling me what to do with myself. I wasn't interested in listening. But when I started talking to people who had been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, then my kind of ears perked up. But as far as Newwatersrecovery.com, we're on Instagram and Twitter. I don't know if we're on Twitter, actually, Facebook, where you can find us, but newwater's recovery.com. And my name is B Reeves, and I'm just happy to help anybody in any way I can.

Speaker 1 1:04:18

Thank you, brother. I appreciate you.

Speaker 1:04:20

Thank you for having me. This is great.

Speaker 1 1:04:22

You're welcome.