Dr. Will Beckham Cole, PhD in International Public Health | Director of Research Projects at The Trevor Project

In this episode, we discuss what inspired Will to pursue a PhD in International Public Health, his academic career at JHU, and his decision to leave academia for the non-profit sector, where he now uses his skillset to support LGBTQ+ youth at The Trevor Project.

Hosted by Lois Dankwa

To connect with Will and to learn more about his story, visit his page on the PHutures #100AlumniVoices Project website.

Transcript

Lois Dankwa

Hi I'm co-host, Lois, Dankwa, and this is the 100 Alumni, Voices, Podcast stories that Inspire, where we Explore, the personal and Professional Journeys, of a Diverse Group, of 100, Doctoral, Alumni, from Johns, Hopkins, University, today, We're Joined by Will Cole PhD in International Public Health and Current Director of Research Projects at the Trevor Project. Hey Will.

Will Cole

Hi Lois. It's nice to talk to you.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, how are you today.

Will Cole

I'm good. I'm having a good day. How are you?

Lois Dankwa

That's good. I I'm having a struggle day.

Will Cole

Oh, no!

Lois Dankwa

But you know where we're making, we're making it through. So, it's okay. And I've been excited for this conversation.

Will Cole

Yeah, I'm excited as well, sorry you're having a struggle day.

Lois Dankwa

Thank you well, I first want to die into my first question for you, and it's, and then kind of Curious. What made you want to pursue a PhD in the first place, and also tell me a bit about your graduate work at Hopkins.

Will Cole

Sure. Yeah, great question, it kind of comes from at some point in childhood. I learned what, a PhD was, and I Yeah, don't recall how or why, or but I just sort of made it a personal goal of mine, like I really liked school. I was really academic. I was like, okay, I'm gonna go I'm gonna pursue that and I didn't know or care in what you. Know I wasn't one of those kids that knew they wanted to be you know airline fly pilot from the Age 6, or whatever. It wasn't like that for me, but I didn't know I wanted to get PhD and then during my undergrad years, I got really interested in medical anthropology and public health after a study Abroad program in Tanzania, and which I got Malaria and kind of went through public and private health clinics and, it took me a month to get properly treated, and I went through this whole journey of like being hospitalized, and it made me ask all these questions. About you know why going to malaria wasn't being prevented and treated, even though we have the tools to do both of those things, right and So going to that got me really pique my interest in public health, and so I ended up getting an MPH, masters of public health, thinking I would then go on to do a PhD in anthropology and sort of get that medical anthropology Side of Things, but by the time I finished my MPH, I was like No. Actually, I want to stick with public health like, I really like so I really value anthropology, medical anthropology and still Read and use a lot of this stuff from that discipline. But I really wanted something very applied like I medical like the Applied Aspect of Public, Health and the program I Studied in International Health, Social medical and Behavioral intervention Whoop took you know Anthropology, and sociology, and psychology, and you know, like and history, and pulled everything together, along with all, the Biomedical Side, which really appeal to me, to have all that interdisciplinariness, and taking you know borrowing what we can from other disciplines to make public health interventions better so that's yeah. That's how I ended up there.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, I, love, that I love that well, I don't love that you got malaria, and that it sounds like, it was a not great experience to recovery. But I love that you've mentioned you mentioned that example, and you kind of highlight at life experience, and formed kind of how you thought about your PhD in approaching it, and also I'm very much a firm believer of everything interdisciplinary where you just kind of draw on all of your experiences and your different interests, and you kind of apply them to a very specific thing. And I'm curious kind of how that informed your approach to doing a PhD. So those were there are a couple of different topics. But how did that inform your approach during the program? But then, also, when you were thinking about roles, that you'd want afterwards.

Will Cole

Yeah, so, I'll be honest I part of the reason I went into the PhD. You know I had that goal for the PhD. But the timing and at the end of the masters. I was actually, thinking, I wanted to go work in programs for a while.

Lois Dankwa

What type of programs?

Will Cole

Like public health programming, or you know work, for someone who's running an intervention, or something like that and actually not go continue right into PhD or even stay in academia, necessarily but it was 2009 when I finished my Masters and the economy, was terrible and there were no jobs. And you know I was applying for jobs and nothing, was you know, I wasn't even getting interviews. But I got into Hopkins PhD program, like and it of all the places I applied it was the only one I got into and it was, you know of course it's the Top Public Health University and that was enough, to entice me to come and specifically, some of the people that worked and continue to work in that program, I really I had I had read some of their work before in my sort of journey through Medical Anthropology and it showed me that like they think in similar ways, I do, of like really being about people and grassroots and really understanding What's going on on a deep level in the Society sort of Bottom up public health rather than top Down, public account and so I knew I would find that sort of thing in the in that program and then once I was there and it's sort of it was it was a really great experience. It was the first time I had been in a program where I really felt at home in other ones. I always felt like I was on the edge, or I was trying to push an envelope. That you know the interdisciplinarians then the professors didn't really get where I was coming from or they're like, oh, we don't have that or we can't do that here, or you know. But this program was like, oh, yeah, we do that this is how you know, really mixing like qualitative and quantitative stuff. And oh, I was I was just feeling really great about the program. And there was mixed doctoral students and master students, and so I was interacting with them, a lot and through that, realizing that I was becoming an expert. And I was really good at helping, others learn at teaching, and that helped me see that like oh, maybe this is where I would I could be here for a while, like you know, staying in academia after my PhD actually makes a lot of sense for me. Doing this kind of research, doing this kind of teaching, so that kind of like turned it back around. If, like no, this is this is a really good place for me.

Lois Dankwa

I love, that I, mean, I, Love, a, lot, of, the things that you said but to that stick out to me are how so you said that you were finishing your MPH around 2009 and the Environmental circumstances led you to go let me apply to this program, and then the one that you got into was Hopkins and it's funny because when we tell our stories it's like wow, you had it all planned, out and it was written really. Well, I want to be just like you, but it's a huge part of where we end up and everything is our stories are writing themselves. And then we kind of connect to the dots, later.

Will Cole

Exactly, yeah, I, I, sometimes talk to students, on like, alumni, panels and that sort of thing, and I always make sure, to point that out, like, if you look at my CV, it looks like, a really, obvious, path, but that's only in hindsight, like, getting here, was actually, very circuitous. And Circumstantial and Luck and of Course Hard Work and Perseverance, but also just like Life, and it was Messy.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, well, then, actually, so a question I have and it's a question for me, but it's a question for everyone listening to it's it takes luck hard work. All of those things. But how can you kind of maintain, clarity of mind and trying to push forward, despite all of those pieces? Because there's still something driving us to move forward, but yeah, how do you do that?

Will Cole

Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, we have to get that motivation somewhere, right and it honestly, it's waxed and waned for me in different points of my life like during the PhD, for me was like a really sort of high time in my life where I will wake up in the morning with us and head off to you know for my 8:30 class with a smile on my face, and come home at the end of the day, with a smile on my face, happy to see my family so as Married at the time, and had a young child and you know that was a beautiful place to be and then a little bit later like before I made the career switch to the Trevor Project. Where I am now, I was in Academia, still as a junior faculty, and Mike was really struggling to find that motivation and push through and like there were aspects of Academia, that I was loving and there were aspects that I was really hating and like sort of forcing, myself, to try to do them. You know, apply for that grant go for the next grant, that I honestly couldn't find that driving that motivation, and I was just putting a lot of pressure on myself to do it because that's what I was supposed to do that was the career path and when I finally got to a point where I was like wait. Maybe I can rethink this. Maybe I don't have to you know. Go for that R. One is the next step, and once I gave myself permission to not stress, about that and not force myself to pursue, that it was just like this weight off me it was so much better and it gave me the opportunity to really rethink and explore outside of Academia and end up you know finding the job, that I have now which I absolutely love.

Lois Dankwa:

Yeah, I'm glad that you mentioned kind of the even if you're in a space that feels really welcoming and feels like, home and comfortable, be and you feel kind of safe to explore, and learn there can be metrics, that exist in that space, that aren't necessarily or kind of measures of success, that don't align with your own personal measures, of success and I'm curious how that kind of influenced or if it did influence, kind of your career, switch to kind of Working on Trevor Project instead of International Health Stuff.

Will Cole

Yeah. Well, the great thing is my work at the Trevor Project is still research and still in international health.

Lois Dankwa

Oh, cool.

Will Cole

So right, so I was really able to just pick up the skills and move them to this, this, new you know, mission, this new project, which has been so beautiful about it because it's all LGBTQ, youth, health and we're doing work in internationally now, and so I'm directing, international health, research, for the Trevor Project so I was really really fortunate that I was able to just move my skills over like that and not have to like go back to School or anything to like switch my career. But yeah, I think you know Academia has its you know path. Expected Path you know, like in in biomedicine, it's you know you do your PhD, and then there's a Postdoc. And then you apply for A. K, grant and hopefully, get the K Grant, and then you know, if you don't, you know you try something else, and then after the K, you go for the R and it's sort of like This NIH funded path through.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah.

Will Cole

And then you were know try to get tenure and stuff like that and I did you know I did that for several years, and for those years it served me well right it worked while it worked I you know I did, the postdoc I and I'm really glad I did and then I did, get a K1 grant, and that funded me for 5 years and, but it's like I started my new job like 2 weeks before the K officially ended.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah.

Will Cole

Like it was like you know that path works really well, for me, for what I needed at the time, and it allowed me a lot of flexibility that I needed in my life, because I had so much else going on in my personal life that the working as a postdoc and then is assistant scientist in the school of Public health allowed me to continue living in Tanzania, where I was living, and get to live with my family there, so it afforded me that flexibility that I wouldn't have had with another job. And I just. I worked remotely before you know, before everyone was approaching remotely and You know, and then, life circumstances changed in that you know, I realized I'm transgender and couldn't stay in Tanzania, and you know I couldn't be out I couldn't transition, and it was really affecting my mental health, quite a lot. And so, I decided to move back, and

Lois Dankwa

Yeah

Will Cole

Luckily, having a K that Funded me was like if you have to have a crisis of gender, and divorce, you know, like having a K, is a good, time to do it, because it's just you don't have to worry about anything else.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah

Will Cole

So it definitely affected my like ability to focus on work and Productivity for a while, and but then at the same time, it also gave me this really strong desire to Refocus on LGBTQ Health and especially Transgender Health which I also Use that time, having the K and having the Flexibility of the K, to also pursue, LGBTQ Hell for related projects and publications, and teach in that in that field and so by the time, you know, my K end I was I was really well set up where I had some years of experience now in LGBTQ, Health I had the skills in that field, and the solid research skills that I could you know, take to the next phase of my life, Yeah.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, I, the thought that I had, while you were talking was that life keeps lifeing while you're doing all of these research, stuff, and it's, well, I thought about that and then, I also, was thinking about kind, of how our identity also shapes our interests, and all of that and it influences how we show up for work, every single day, whether it's conscious or subconscious and like, I do work with anti-racism and equity, promotion and even Just like for Products, that we Produce, I I'm really Intentional about Making, Sure We Present Work, that like, we're ultimately talking about health care.

Will Cole

Yeah

Lois Dankwa

That would affect me if we don't do a good job, and whether or not I realize that I'm affecting myself, and I'm, curious, how both kind of in the past, but then also now, your identity, has really shaped your career, journey and or your thoughts, about your identity, known or unknown shaped how you approached school as approached career, and how you show up

Will Cole

Yeah, for sure there's a, there's, a lot of elements there, you know, the most obvious one being my I'm part of the LGBTQ, community and really making that a key part of my work, in the past few years and you know it. We're at a time where trans people are more in the news, and you know There's more attention. Now we've always been around, but now there's a lot, more attention and awareness. And there's a lot of there's a growing push. For you know, trans people to be involved in trans health research trans people to lead trans, you know, programs and research, and so it's a key time for me to be able to you know, bring both my skills as having a PhD from Hopkins and being a trans man, and that that's really key to you

Lois Dankwa

Yeah

Will Cole

Know where I am in my career. Now, like you know, you don't have to be transferred doing this work of course, but, like it's, a good bonus for sure, and it. Makes me, think in different ways that maybe you know there's so many things, about being trans that I didn't think about before because I didn't have to you know. I just and like you know, as a white person. There's a lot of things I don't have to think about and so I have to train myself, to you know practice, anti-racism, or you know anti Ableism and various different identities, and previously, so I you know I'm a parent, and my kid is 20 now so when I started when I started grad School even my masters, when I started my masters, he was 3 and when I started

Lois Dankwa

Wow!

Will Cole

My PhD, he was 7, yeah, so just being a parent definitely, you know, shapes, that my ex-husband, his other dad, was also pursuing a PhD and so you know, we had to negotiate like who whose turn is it, if like okay, he'll get the PhD first and then when he's done.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah

Will Cole

Yeah. I'll pursue mine, and then like, and then also just like literally whose turn is it to pick up the kid, from school, you know, and balancing, balancing having a relationship, and being a parent all with also pursuing a graduate, degree and working you know it's quite a lot, to juggle, and also my dissertation was on sort of this intersection of reproductive health and pregnancy, and HIV among female sex workers in Tanzania, so I think you know I call myself a parent or a dad now but at the time, I called myself a mom, you know, and my kid called me mom until he was about 16 when I came out. And so I really bringing identity as a as a woman and as a mother, to that work and approach that work, really looking at the sex workers as mothers, and you know how mothers, make decisions about how to take care of their kids, and how much that Shaped, their work, as sex, workers, and this sort, of double, bind, of like they have kids to feed, and they need the money, but they also need to protect their kids, and therefore they need to protect themselves from HIV and other diseases, and unwanted pregnancy, and it was like this tug, of war, between sort of you know I'm doing this for

Lois Dankwa

Yeah

Will Cole

The kid, but it's also putting me in danger, and I might die before my you know, like it was a really it's a very difficult place to be, and I think I think my experience as a mother.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah

Will Cole

Even made me be able to think about such things. You know, and really look at the sex workers there and not that's not just like HIV prevention terms but also like these broader terms of like fertility, and pregnancy and infertility, and raising kids and stigma, and you know it was a it was a very interesting project. That way.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah. I, something that really stuck out to me from what you were just saying, was just we wear many hats sometimes or oftentimes all at once and earlier, when I said it today's a struggle day it's, it's, one of those States where all of my Hats were on. I had so many hours, in the day, and all of the hats were like Lois, do this no, let us do this and Lois me was like but which one do I pick and it's that's something we constantly Experience and a PhD student PhD candidate, and post, World and it yeah, it's hard. But we have to keep going, and also, sometimes we can learn from each other, which it's or we can put ourselves in other people's, shoes, and it helps kind of recenter, reframe, and help us, understand each other, in different ways I have I wanna learn about the work, that you do at Trevor Project and yeah, I'm just curious, like, what you do. What that looks like, but also what excites you about your role. But then also, what are some Challenges.

Will Cole

Sure, yeah, yeah, so The Trevor project does a lot of things. They they're primarily, a crisis services organization. They take you know suicide outline calls, chats, and text and stuff like that. But there's whole other branches of it, including advocacy and research, public education. So I'm on the Research team and they do an annual survey of LGBTQ, youth in the United States of Like 30,000, 35,000, youth and then you know not only Publish Peer Review Literature on the findings, but also do Briefs, the Share the Information with Advocacy, and communications teams to really get the information out there and really make it Accessible and known to policymakers, to teachers, to parents, anyone that we've you know can help youth thrive so I'm a Part of you know Managing, that and really I'm sort of more the Project, management Side of that, and like making sure it gets Fielded in Recruitment questions and sort of making sure we have the you know the right Questions, and all that Stuff, Getting, the Youth, to Take our Survey, and then now, Trevor's Starting to do that in other countries? As well, so that's where my international expertise comes in.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah

Will Cole

And so right now, we're working in 5, other countries, in in various stages of the process of you know, recruiting Data collection, finding partners and stuff, like that so it's actually really

Lois Dankwa

Yeah

Will Cole

You know it was really exciting for me to know that Trevor was moving internationally like that because you know it's what I it's what I know and it's what I love doing and I also have pretty strong values that I bring with that and ways, of approaching that that you know. I want it to be very thoughtful and collaborative, and not recolonize.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah

Will Cole

You know not just export American Ways and Thoughts Americans, thinking about mental health and about sexual gender Minorities and stuff like that so I Appreciated the opportunity to come in at the beginning and like Sheep, how are, we about that so we're working very closely with partners that are in country, and you, youth organizations, to make sure it's really attuned to the local context and cultures and languages, and that they can also use the data and the findings to advocate and educate and make a difference, in their own countries so that's really

Lois Dankwa

Yeah

Will Cole

Exciting. And it's funny, the one of the classes I was teaching before I left is called global perspectives, on LGBTQ, health and I Co-taught with a Friend of mine and She's. Still Teaching it but the final Assignment, for that Class was Pretend that an NGO approached you as a consultant and a American Ngo, and asked you hey we're wanted. We want to do this intervention in a different country, for some sexual, gender, minority, sort of critically discussed this and what you would take into consideration, and what you would recommend on how to approach that how to do that and so the students, would pick a Country, for their Midterm and sort of you know get to know it really well, figure out what data there is. It isn't there what's it like for sexual, gender, minorities there, and then their final was like pretend, like they're adapting an intervention for this other NGO and then like I was teaching that class, and then interviewing for the Trevor project at the same time, and it was like I literally just invented my own job, for the final like not knowing that that's exactly what I'd be doing, And in fact, a couple of my students that last term chose the Trevor Project as they're like NGO, for this hypothetical and it was just like this beautiful thing of sort of like Yeah, it was just like I don't. I don't believe in like manifesting things to the universe and stuff like that. But it felt kind of like that, you know, like I sort of like was very fortunate to fall into this job where I get to use. Yeah, I, get to use my skills and my approaches in a way that hopefully has this positive impact on youth, around, the world.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, and that was another example of our stories writing themselves.

Will Cole

Yeah.

Lois Dankwa

In really, beautiful ways. So, I have one more question for you, if it's so I am curious. What inspires you right now?

Will Cole

I really do find I'm and again I'm very fortunate in that I find the work I'm doing, very inspiring. You know it's not everyone that gets to get paid for what they're passionate, about, and so I feel very fortunate there, and that's you know, working with the with the colleagues, in the organization it's been really wonderful but outside of that I so I've for the longest time. Like Decades I've been really interested in creative writing and creative nonfiction, like Memoir writing and personal essays, and stuff and now that I've been in this job and sort of achieved better work, life balance for myself than I had before I've been able to sort of have the emotional bandwidth and the time, to Pursue hobbies and stuff including writing so I've actually been accepted to

Lois Dankwa

Yeah

Will Cole

Johns Hopkins, again for a masters of Arts and writing to start next year, and so that's really that's really exciting for me, and I'm really looking Forward to writing, my stories you know, I have I have so many stories from you know my life you know, the time in Tanzania about transition and being, trans and about you know, stuff from childhood. And there's just so many like stories I'm looking Forward to Unpacking and sort of working through some of my own history, and Trauma, and Stress, and like give that all out on paper, and like Sharing, this stories and Healing, from some of the Harder Parts, and the Struggles, you know and so yeah, that's really inspiring to me, right now being able to share.

Lois Dankwa

Well, that's inspiring to me, too, that we can be lifelong learners, but then also it's okay for working, through things still, and it's important to find outlets that let us kind of continue to grow and show up in all the ways that we want to so well, I wanna thank you thank you.

Will Cole: 

Absolutely.

Lois Dankwa

Thank you for taking time to chat telling me a little bit about your story and joining us in this conversation.