Dr. Anna Kalbarczyk, DrPH in Implementation Science | Assistant Director at Center for Global Health at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

In this episode, we discuss how the flexibility of a virtual, part-time doctoral program attracted Anna to pursue her doctorate while continuing in her career, her take on the power of saying no to opportunities that don’t serve you, and the importance of positive interpersonal relationships whether in graduate school or in the workplace.

Hosted by Brooklyn Arroyo

To connect with Anna and to learn more about her story, visit her page on the PHutures #100AlumniVoices Project website.

Transcript

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Brooklyn Arroyo

Hello I'm Co-host Brooklyn Arroyo and this is 100 Alumni Voices podcast, stories that inspire, where we explore the personal and professional journeys of a diverse group of 100 doctoral alumni from Johns Hopkins University. Today we're joined by Anna Kalbarczyk DRPH in Implementational Science. How are you, Anna?

Anna Kalbarczyk

I'm doing well. How are you, Brooklyn?

Brooklyn Arroyo

I am also doing well. I'm really excited to be able to work with you today. So, please let's just jump right into it and tell us a little bit about your graduate experience within implementation science.

Anna Kalbarczyk

Sure, happy to. I had a really great experience. So, my program was part-time online, and I was one of the first cohorts to join when the program turned into into that mode. And something I was really looking for was a cohort experience, right. Getting to meet people from all over the world who were, you know, at different stages in their lives interested in pursuing doctoral degrees, and that's why this program really spoke to me. So, it was a wonderful opportunity to make friends, make connections, to network, dive into classes. I also did a bit of a whirlwind approach. So, even though it was part-time I graduated in three years and so also allowed me the space to really focus.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Definitely. So, you mentioned going into this experience and having that virtual aspect of things. What was your first thoughts? Was it always a positive thing or were you nervous to go into it with that virtual aspect?

Anna Kalbarczyk

Actually no. So, I have a learning disability that where I have an over attention disorder that makes it quite difficult to be in classroom settings. And so, for the first time really this was my experience getting to do virtual learning. I do a lot of virtual teaching, but to be on the other side of it and to do virtual learning. So, I was actually really excited for like what I could accomplish and how I could show up in that space and not really have that disability affect me in the way that it really had for most of my for most of my education.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Definitely. I think that's an interesting point to shed light on because I think a lot of people have voiced such negative thoughts on on virtual education and virtual learning. And I think that being able to see the differences and different learning environments that could, you know, benefit students in that space, I think that's really a powerful thing to shed light on.

Anna Kalbarczyk

But maybe I could just add Brooklyn, you know, not all faculty are well equipped to do to do virtual teaching. And what I found was that it was really about the way the cohort decided to approach that experience. So, whether the instructor was really well equipped or doing the best job, I found that energy on online learning was around the cohort coming together, you know making decisions together, how they were going to work, how they were going to interact. And so that was also really powerful for me, was like using the cohort as a tool for making virtual learning successful.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Right, definitely. So, I would like to pry more on your—you briefly mentioned how you were excited to have that experience meeting different people and now you've talked more on the cohort being positively affecting the environment of your learning. So, what were some of those positive experiences that you'd like to speak on and that environment of having that cohort and group mentality?

Anna Kalbarczyk

So, I often reflect on degree programs as like friend groups that are gifted to you. You know, as we become adults, it becomes harder and harder to make friends. And so, it's just kind of like, hey, here's a platter of people who are, you know, possibly like-minded or of similar interest. And so, I was like, alright, this is probably my last you know gifted group of friends. And so, I took that really seriously. But I think also because so many of us were further in our career, right, we weren't just coming out of a Masters program. Many of us had a lot of working experience that we were able to, you know, talk to each other, not just about what was going on in class, but also what was going on in work and and compare contrast experiences. And then I think the other component about sort of being more mature adult learners was that we all had our boundaries. You know, we all knew, here's are the ways that we can show up in our courses. Here are the ways we can't, and I just found that like as a cohort, we were able to be honest, to say, hey in this short term I can, I can really show up now, but I'm going on vacation at the end of this month and I'm not really going to be around, right. And it was always this really friendly negotiation about how we were going to work together.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Definitely. And I asked do you think that that, that level of learning how to communicate and work amongst those people even more within your graduate experience help you within the science aspect of it all, the implementation science and the career that you then went down?

Anna Kalbarczyk

Sure. I think my first reaction is I'm not sure, but I mean immediately as I think about implementation science, one of the core sort of fundamental drivers is around stakeholder engagement, being able to identify and collaborate with really diverse groups of stakeholders to engage in the science, right, to determine the research question or the approaches. And so, I do think there was a real value add to, you know, again being infused with working with so many different people, different working styles, different backgrounds, and so even though it was within this tight community, sure I can definitely see how that applies. Great question.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Thank you. Thank you. Great answer. So, within the subject of implementation science, I wonder, did you always know that this was the path you wanted to take? Was it a snowball thing?

Anna Kalbarczyk

Yeah, absolutely not. I mean, first of all, implementation science is a newer field. So, I couldn't have known even if I'd wanted to. I think I also I needed a break after my Masters program. So, my Masters program, which I didn't complete at Hopkins, was not a great fit for me, and I was one of those students who had rolled right out of undergraduate into graduate. You know, it was, it was really, you know what you're supposed to do, and it just didn't work for me. So, I needed a break which was about an eight-year break. And I never really thought I wanted to do a doctoral program, largely because I had a job and an income. I worked with PhD students around the school. You know, I knew like I knew what that life was like. I knew it was hard. I also knew it wasn't for me. I was enjoying drawing a salary and getting professional experience, and so it wasn't really until the program transformed into part-time and online, where I said oh, this is a really great match for me, and now let's see how I can fit this into my work. And then implementation science just happened to be the best fit and I could really see how I wanted to pursue that. So, it was totally like life course, you know, drawing me along into this path and me just saying yes when the opportunity showed up and when it was right for me.

Brooklyn Arroyo

So, eight years, that of work experience before then jumping back into this, this graduate work. Do you feel that there was a significant transition period or with the virtual aspect of things it was easy to kind of just roll with it and add it on to your daily life?

Anna Kalbarczyk

I think because most of that working experience was at Hopkins, but the center for global health, it wasn't too much of a shock for me. At that point, I was already teaching quite a bit, you know, engaging in research. And so, all of the different things that were coming up right, needing to write papers, needing to do group work, needing to watch lectures, it all felt very familiar to me, but I certainly know some of my colleagues had a a steep learning curve for sure.

Brooklyn Arroyo

So, what, how do you go about approaching making decisions about your career now? And sort of, what is the work that you're doing currently?

Anna Kalbarczyk

I approach decisions about my career with a lot of self-reflection. So, I feel like very early on in our career, we're told, you know, say yes to everything. You want to grab opportunities as much as you can and I think now I'm in a place where I've better established myself, my areas of expertise, where I have to really thoughtfully say yes, and I find a lot of power in being able to say no to things that don't serve me, right, really being able to assess and say that's not an opportunity for me, that's an opportunity for someone else. So, I think it's really about that balance between being excited about something versus really being able to take it on. Or also really making sure that it serves you and your objectives, right. So, a lot of self-reflection and a lot of being clear about what you want, but also knowing that things can really come up at any time. I was particularly fortunate—it might not sound like this—but I was fortunate that my first job experience out of graduate school was absolutely terrible. And because of that, I learned so much about what I didn't want. And I feel that when I stumble upon excellent environments, you know, really supportive groups of people, projects that excite me, that I realize the value in that, because I've also seen what happens on the other side, right when environments aren't supportive, when you're in a bad situation, or your working relationships aren't great. So, also really learning from that early on and then just never forgetting those lessons.

Brooklyn Arroyo

And I do want to ask more about that, but I would love to hear some of your lessons that you would like to share about how to foster a relationship with yourself and with your work that you can say no. I think that oftentimes we feel that we, you know, are getting in this routine of saying yes. And we can't really get out of it. So, what advice do you have for that?

Anna Kalbarczyk

So, one of the best pieces of advice that my one of my mentors ever gave me was under promise and over deliver. Because no one will ever be mad if you do that, right? Then you basically said I'm going to do this much and then you do a whole bunch more and then everyone is really happy. And so, I would just say, you know, and I see students particularly get really like you want to take advantage of every opportunity, but in the process of doing that you are over promising and under delivering everywhere, and you're ultimately losing opportunities down the line, right? If you if you are spread too thin and you can't complete tasks and you don't really engage, then people don't want to work with you again. So, one, I would say then it's about under promise over deliver and then two, it's about really thinking what does that mean? Like understanding down the line that's about creating relationships with people, that's about really being able to show up for something and and assessing what you want to spend your time on.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Definitely, that that was great advice. 

Anna Kalbarczyk

Thank you. And maybe I would just add on to that that like who you work with is way more important than what you do. Because like who you work with is the bulk of you know you're going to be in meetings and emailing people and all of that. And like cool tasks will come later. But who you work with is way more important.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Definitely that this is sort of become a repeated subject that is brought up within all of the podcasts. I think it's become more widespread known within careers within the past couple of years, but environments of a workplace can be extremely influential to the work that you do. And that's not just you show up, you do your job, and that's it. Living in existing within that work environment is also extremely important. So, I think that this would be a good subject to segue into what you're talking about before with your not so great first job experience, and I would just ask so what were some of the specific battle or battles, but you know, bumps in the road that you faced and how did you go about learning from them? Because sometimes those can be extremely discouraging and and we find ourselves not being motivated by those things. So, what are your thoughts on that?

Anna Kalbarczyk

Well, I was I was sort of forced to be motivated by them because ultimately that organization fired me when they found out that I was interviewing at other places. So, I kind of had no choice but to immediately take that lesson and and figure something out around it. And I, of course, the immediate feeling was I have failed, you know, this is my first job out of Graduate School. What's like who will ever hire me again? Clearly, I'm fine. You know, like I've landed. That is barely a a blip on the radar. But of course, you you feel that way. I think I was just really forced into feeling motivated by it instead. And I think honestly, the challenges all came down to the interpersonal relationships that I had and that I observed. Right, really sort of feeling this sense that leadership was there for themselves. They weren't there for other people. There wasn't a clear scope or objective of work for me to do, and people complained about everything. Like if we were in the lunch room and we were even talking about personal things, it was just complaining, and I was just like man, this is boring. You know, it's like, who wants to just complain all the time? So, I just, I even felt that, like, not even just related to work, but personally, it just wasn't the group for me.

Brooklyn Arroyo

So, I think that and you you spoke on how you were then let go after making out that you were seeking work elsewhere. And I think that that's partially why a lot of people end up feeling stuck in these sorts of environments that just do not work with their own goals and their own attitudes. So, what advice do you have on whether it's a strategy about leaving that, or whether it's just about ripping the Band-Aid off?

Anna Kalbarczyk

Well, I think you know I come from a place of privilege where I was able to be let go as you said, and not be fearful for like meeting the rent, you know, or feeding myself. So, I first want to take a moment to recognize that not everyone has a swath of options when it comes to this. But the second thing I would say is you know network and apply for things. And I think in global health, which is my field, people often talk about mentorship. And I even, you know, I even alluded to having a mentor. But I think now the most powerful thing you can do is have a network, to not rely on one person to meet all of these criteria for you, but to really establish a network. And I remember one of the first things I did after getting fired was I like looked up opportunities near me for continuing education or for networking, and now it's so much easier too. You can I say that like I'm a million years old, but like now you can hop online. You can meet people on LinkedIn, there are online networking events. And networking is like dating, you know, not every member of your network is going to be the most fabulous person, but you can find unexpected wins everywhere and leverage them. And and I think that is what's critical is know and grow your network and just leverage that for different opportunities to see what's out there. And I think really remember. I think so many people are afraid to leave because they don't know what's worse, like what they have or what's out there. And then I would just say if you make a change, you can make a change again. You know and so some of it's also about overcoming fear of being able to make those different changes.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Definitely. Change is I think almost a universal fear for many people, especially career wise. It's big stuff right there. So, stepping back into the topic of careers, I'd love to know and I think that the audience would too just what does your day-to-day look like now within settling into your career?

Anna Kalbarczyk

It never looks the same. So, one of the one of the things I really love about being on faculty is the flexibility that my days can look wildly different, and also that I can engage in lots of different projects. And some days I have lots of meetings, some days I have no meetings. Some days I create like really beautiful creative space for myself to write or create proposals or you know do different things or sometimes I'm just really trying to collaborate with people. Or just read, right, read up on the science and and feel like I'm part of of that community. Some days I'm on a plane for 24 hours. So, I think that's one of my favorite things is I don't know. What does it look like? It looks like however I want it to look.

Brooklyn Arroyo

I I definitely relate to wanting to have a career that's like that. I know some people appreciate the routine of every day, but I definitely would appreciate a career where each day is a new day. 

Anna Kalbarczyk

Exactly.

Brooklyn Arroyo

So yes, so I think that you you briefly spoke on some of your favorite aspects of of your career now, but do you feel that postgraduate you had your first job experience and now you're within your current job, there were any surprises that you faced that didn't really—your graduate experience didn't really prepare you for?

Anna Kalbarczyk

Which one? My doctoral experience or or prior to that?

Brooklyn Arroyo

Education in general.

Anna Kalbarczyk

It's hard to separate now because I have been working and and during my masters program I also worked quite a bit. I think what it doesn't—OK, because group projects are so feared and students tend to hate them, I feel like you that students don't get out of them what they should, which is the is the deep understanding that you will be working in environments with people who think very differently from you, who take on different roles. And that doesn't mean that they're less than. It just means that they are different. And I think Graduate School tries to do this and I don't think that it's always successful. And I think also faculty like run away from group projects because they've had so many bad experiences as well. So maybe I would say that. Yeah, it's hard. And the other thing I think is that especially if you're rolling right through school, you are very used to having a very flexible schedule and most careers are not like mine, right, most places you you don't have all of that flexibility. And I remember that being really difficult.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Definitely finding the switch between academia and certain career paths is is, yeah. So I think that I'm interested to know about sort of I already asked what's your day-to-day looks like, but if you have a next phase what would the next phase of your career look like for you?

Anna Kalbarczyk

Well, I actually just got accepted to a leadership and performance coaching program at Brown. 

Brooklyn Arroyo

Congratulations.

Anna Kalbarczyk

Thank you. I've been, I've been really exploring the role of coaching in leadership and the role of coaching as an intervention in global health. And also as part of as part of my teaching and pedagogical journey. And so, my, you know, where where I see that going is being able to take this, this coaching journey, you know, understand more about it, understand how I can incorporate it into my work, but maybe also do coaching on the side, who’s to say.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Life is life is long. You can do lots of things.

Anna Kalbarczyk

Lots of things. That's right.

Brooklyn Arroyo

So, congratulations again, that's amazing. Do you have just any piece that you would like to to tell the audience of just advice that you would like to share from your your leadership and coaching perspective?

Brooklyn Arroyo

I you know, I think we all think about this differently depending on where we are in our careers. I would just really say don't be afraid of networks and don't be afraid of doing things differently. You know, I think like leadership, teaching, mentorship, all of this, we are so often stuck in the way that we saw it done. And I think the truth is that all of it can be done really differently and really personally and probably more effectively by just leaning into who we are and recognizing the strengths that we bring, right, and taking strength-based approaches rather than weakness-oriented approaches, right, really trying to to push us forward and those things we're really strong at as opposed to saying we have to fix every weakness we have. So, you know, I would just say for all of it try to do it differently, and if something's not working for you, you don't have to repeat that model. And the truth is, too, that there is science about everything. So, if you're trying to coach or lead or teach, there's a world of academic research out there where you can learn from it. And that's what we're here to do at public health, right? We're trying to do science-based approaches, evidence-based interventions, and that exists for so much.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Definitely that that was an excellent, excellent response. I feel inspired. OK, so speaking of inspiration, our last question that we ask of all of our attendees on this podcast is what inspires you right now?

Anna Kalbarczyk

Oh ah. I feel like all these other questions have been so easy in comparison. What inspires me? Change. I think the change. So, you're you said earlier, you think you know so many people are fearful of change and I've reflected recently that I actually I love conflict. I love change. I get really energized by it, and I think the change that we're seeing in global health towards increasing conversations around anti-colonialism and anti-oppression, I think the greater focus we're having in the world around equity you know, focuses on gender, right? I think all of this change is something that's inspiring me and something I'm really hoping to to hold on to and propel forward. I don't think change has to be slow. I think it's been slow and I don't think it has to be, so I'm really inspired by change. 

Brooklyn Arroyo

Me too. Me too. And I've found this conversation extremely inspiring, and I really appreciate you coming on to this podcast.

Anna Kalbarczyk

Thank you so much for having me, Brooklyn, it's been great.