Dr. Raquel Dailey, EdD in Education | Associate Director for Inclusion and International Career Development at Davidson College

In this episode, we discuss what sparked Raquel’s interest in international education, how her doctoral research on ways to better support Black and African American students’ study abroad experiences ignited her passion for championing equity and inclusion, and the ways she implements this approach in her current role advocating for international students’ career and professional development at Davidson College.

Hosted by Brooklyn Arroyo

To connect with Raquel and to learn more about her story, visit her page on the PHutures #100AlumniVoices Project website.

Transcript

Brooklyn Arroyo

Hello I'm co-host Brooklyn Arroyo and this is 100 Alumni Voices podcast, stories that inspire, where we explore the personal and professional journeys of a diverse group of 100 doctoral alumni from Johns Hopkins University. Today, we're joined by Raquel Dailey, EdD in education. Hello and good morning.

Raquel Dailey

Good morning. Good to see you today.

Brooklyn Arroyo

So, let's just jump right in and I'd love to hear about your journey in going into the EdD that you experienced, and was it something that you always knew you wanted to pursue? What did that look like for you?

Raquel Dailey

So, I did always know like at some point I want a doctoral degree, but it took me some years actually to find a program that I felt was a good fit for me. And so, I like looked at different programs, you know, people who I knew who were getting their doctoral degrees. I would always be like, OK, so how did you choose your program? What made you select that one? What do you like about it? And once I made a decision so my husband and I were deciding like, OK, do we want to have a baby or am I going to start my doctoral program? And so, I was like, well, I'm going to try to start the doctoral program. I'm going to go ahead and just apply now. And we'd already been married I think maybe like 10, almost 10 years, so I was like, OK, well, well, we decided we start planning for me to start my doctorate. But I couldn't find a program that I really liked. And then I don't know how I ended up coming across the Hopkins program, but at that point I was also living abroad, so I was living in Belgium at that time and so I knew I wanted a program that was associated, one that was highly ranked. And also, that was associated with an actual like brick-and-mortar school. And so, I had worked in higher ed at that point for many years, and so I was like, OK, I think I do want my doctorate in education. Education is one area that I do feel very strongly about and I would like to start, but I also need the flexibility of being able to start from Belgium. And I was living there at the time, so there was no going back to the US. So, when I came across the education EdD program, it was one where we had some in person requirements or expectations, but most of it I'd be able to do asynchronously. And so, it was highly ranked. It was through Johns Hopkins, which was, of course, a plus. And you know, after speaking to some people about the program, I decided like, OK, I think this could be a good fit for me.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Definitely, yeah. I would love to hear, there's of course always the personal factors that go into it, but what were some of the factors that really pushed you into not just your doctoral pursuits, but also in education in general?

Raquel Dailey

So, there were lots of things that I felt very strongly about with education and my specific area of interest is international education. I currently work in higher ed still, and I work with international students in the area of career development, and so also I studied abroad when I was an undergrad. And I had very interesting study abroad experiences. And so international ed has always been a passion of mine, and I wanted a program that would allow me to explore that in the way that I wanted to explore it. So, I wanted to be able to decide like what it was that I wanted that I was Interested in, what did I feel most passionate about, and then how could I create my own dissertation research around those passions, and Hopkins was one of the programs that I felt like really would allow me to do that and wouldn't, like, force me to do a certain topic or a certain way, but where I'd really be able to dig into what I feel most passionate about.

Brooklyn Arroyo

So, when you say interesting experience where those vastly positive interesting or negative interesting?

Raquel Dailey

It was vastly the opposite of positive. I won't say completely negative, but it wasn't awesome. It was awesome in that, like I went there to learn Spanish. I learned Spanish. I later became a Spanish teacher. You know like I love, I was immersed in a new culture. I learned a language. I have learned many languages since then. I was exposed to a different way of living, a different way of being. So, I absolutely encourage everyone who could possibly ever study abroad to or live abroad to go abroad. And so, I believe that international education is so important just for growth and self-awareness, and it was because of those experiences that were not the best that really prompted me to dig into my dissertation. So specifically, my doctoral research is around the Black and African American experience abroad, and I looked at the study abroad experience of those who studied abroad from, like, were just sent home because of COVID to those who had studied abroad more than 20 years ago, and a lot of the like anti-blackness that they experienced 20 years ago, students were still experiencing within a month before, and some of the same ways that as administrators we can really improve in the way that we prepare Black and African American students who are going abroad. A lot of those things were still utilizing the same methods that we used 20 years ago, which seemed to consistently be falling short. And so, it was really just interesting to see that. I did not anticipate so much overlap and experience from those that were had gone abroad 20 years before and also just also being able to have conversations with people who had similar experiences to my own. But I never had a person to process and unpacked that with. So, it was just really, really eye opening in a lot of ways. And I think just really exposed a lot of areas when it comes to international education that we can really have a more inclusive lens.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Definitely. And I think oftentimes conversations are brushed aside because of the excuse of them being uncomfortable, but I do think that it's important what you're talking about and speaking on cultural differences and preparing students. So, I would be really interested what was some of the work that you did within your research? What did that look like? And in your in your graduate experience and what did you find, I guess?

Raquel Dailey

So, I conducted an ethnographic qualitative research study where I interviewed, like I said, those who had studied abroad 20 years ago, those who had just been sent home from COVID. So, I actually had to pivot. I was specifically looking at a mixed method approach, looking at mentorship within International Ed, specifically looking at underrepresented populations, and I was planning to work with an historically black college here where I live, and the students that we're planning to go abroad that summer and then no one was going abroad that summer. And so, it required a pivot. And so, I then switched to a qualitative study where I interviewed those who had gone abroad, and I found that one, people were really open and honest about their experience, which was amazing. Two, lots of people had lots of insights as to things that they wish were done differently, so that really helped me to be able to kind of capture that information to share. Also, I think that as you mentioned too, sometimes it's like if you're the only one in a cohort that's going abroad that had that experience, so if one of the 10 people who were there had this experience, you can say it was just kind of a one off. But to be able to say, OK, it's more than 20 people have had this experience over the span of 23 years, it puts some more validity and a stronger voice behind what's being said, and so just having the opportunity to be a person that can provide that strength of voice and that confirmation that no, these are real experiences. And to be able to highlight the voices of those who are often not heard within that space, that was very important to me. So, I was very excited to be able to do that research.

Brooklyn Arroyo

And it's extremely powerful research. I I agree that I think that that would be important for everyone involved, but also people who aren't necessarily interested in abroad or studying abroad at all, because I think there's important lessons within that cultural differences and and and

Raquel Dailey

For sure.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Just validating experiences all around. So, within your work and post-doctoral experiences, what career plans did you see after pursuing your your EdD and that sort of work?

Raquel Dailey

So, I was already during the course. Well, OK, when I started my program, I was living in Belgium. Then I moved back to the US. I did actually have a child over the course of the program as well, so I guess we decided to just do everything. But then after having my son, we decided to move back to the US. And so, I started working, so it’s before I finished the program, I continue my work in higher Ed, but this time working with international students. So, when I was working in Belgium, I was working with American students who were living abroad. And then coming back to the US, I was working with international students living in the US. So, kind of just a difference then but similar responsibilities. And so, following the completion of my doctoral work, I was able to get a different role within my department where I was able to then add an equity lens to the work that I do. And so, it then became as opposed to just working with international students, I was able to work on managing like the inclusion efforts for our office and for our division where I didn't previously have that as a part of what I did. So, really being able to lean into more of the equity work that I was passionate about, that was really more uncovered over the course of completing my doctoral work.

Brooklyn Arroyo

I think oftentimes, as someone who is currently in academia and hopes to some point study abroad, I feel like oftentimes the discussion around it among students is that it can be sometimes unattainable for certain students. Just you know whether that be culturally, or just like economically and financially, so do you feel that there are significant barriers in your opinion that exist now and you think that we're getting better at making those barriers a little less daunting for students?

Raquel Dailey

Honestly, I think that there has definitely been a shift, and so a lot of that shift actually came over the course of the pandemic with so much social unrest and uncovering of a lot of things that people had been experiencing for a very long time that just had not really been pinpointed. And so, I think a lot of that pinpointing happened over the course of the pandemic where we weren't able to kind of brush by things and continue on our day because none of us had a day, we were just at home. And so, I think with that there has been more intentionality around providing like more economic resources, more funding for populations that have been historically marginalized. But I do believe that there is more to do across higher education when it comes to international Ed in terms of just kind of the day-to-day. you know, as higher Ed administrators, there's a lot. We do a lot. We do lots and lots and lots and lots and lots. And so, you know, to kind of say, OK, now we're going to disrupt what you've been doing and the way you've been doing it for 25 years because we've learned that that's not working, is sometimes hard for people to understand. Or to say, you know, we send hundreds and hundreds of students abroad every year. Of course, we've been successful. But what has the experience been like? Have they been prepared? Have they felt like things are different? Have they gone on a faculty-led program and something happened to them and they were not able to have that allyship that they expected in a faculty member because they weren't well versed in the areas of equity or inclusion or belonging? And so, I think that there is definitely more that can be done. I do think there have been steps made, but I think when it comes to on the ground, OK, these are the things that we need to do to make sure that students, regardless of their identity, have a positive experience regardless of the country they're going into, we can definitely do better there. There have been lots of people who have recently come out with more literature, more research around those things which have been great. And so, I'm really excited for a lot of the work that has been done, but there's definitely more more that can be done and that needs to be done now in order to make sure we're sending students into safe environments.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Definitely yes. I do think that just the act of shedding a light which a lot of that was done during the pandemic, just shedding a light on a lot of different issues is the first step. But I do think that it's just just that, a first step and we need to keep on rolling with it. So, you briefly something about mentorship within this area of international students and studies, and I'd love to hear about experiences you had with mentorship and advice you would give to whether someone was experiencing mentorship or is providing mentorship within this area or in general.

Raquel Dailey

So, a lot of the research I did really uncovered what you know, many people have known, but just literature wise that specifically for historically marginalized populations, word of mouth and having the stamp of approval by someone who looks like you or who identifies in a similar way can be more impactful and more important to their study abroad experience, to their decision to study abroad, to their family’s acceptance of them going abroad than for other populations. And so, whereas you know if I'm going abroad and my mom is like, well I think that I need to know a little bit more about where you're going, it's because they want to know will I be accepted where I'm going. Or if my Dad is like has anyone who looks like you've gone abroad before? That's because they want to make sure that wherever I'm going that someone has gone before me and I'm not the one paving the way. And so, a lot of that can be alleviated. Those fears, those anxieties can be alleviated through mentorship. And specifically, by having those students with certain identities mentoring other students with similar identities, and so that has been known to increase the number of historically marginalized students going abroad, increase their preparation, their level of preparation to know, OK, this is how much this program is going to cost, but this is how much money I'm going to need on the ground. Many people were like I had money to pay for this. This was no problem. My parents supported me. Many other people were like I was able to pay for the program and had no idea I'd need almost that same amount once I got in country. And so those are the things that are needed when it comes to mentorship, also academically, to know like these are the courses that might transfer. These are these, these, this, these are the steps that I took to make sure that that happened. Whereas that hasn't necessarily been the case historically. So, just some of those things I think are very needed. Which more of those types of programs or even like reentry programs are happening specifically focused on students with certain identities to say this was my experience, these are my recommendations from students who are just coming back from that opportunity, but I definitely think more of that needs to happen.

Brooklyn Arroyo

And and just representation in general. I think that's something we always are talking about, but the the importance of representation is just like a growing list that it will never end with how positive it is.

Raquel Dailey

Exactly, exactly. And I I like one of the one of my more recent ventures is called Best Life Abroad. And I have a Best Life Abroad podcast, and Best Life Abroad was really created out of, you know, I I moved abroad. I lived abroad. I worked abroad, and so often I have conversations with people from historic and marginalized populations that are like, oh, I would love to do that. But I can't do it. And I'm like, of course you can. Of course you can do it. And so, what Best Life Abroad is is it's intended to help, where I really focus on helping people who think that this is an opportunity, moving abroad, living abroad, working abroad, moving my family abroad, those are things that are unattainable, to help you gain some real logical steps and processes in place to be able to make that dream of moving abroad come true and in the Best Life Abroad podcast, what I do is I speak to people. I speak to people, individuals, families, who have decided to just pack it all up. They are from historically marginalized populations. They decided to pack it all up and make that dream of moving abroad come true. And I have yet to speak with a person that is not like that has not said I wish I would have done this sooner. My life has been astronomically better, and I can't believe that I waited so long to do this. And so, just even having those people that representation to say, you can do it. Sure, you are married with four children, all under the age of 10. I have interviewed a family who did it. Sure, you have a child with special needs. I have interviewed a person who did it. Sure, you are a fashion designer in California. I interviewed a person who did that, and so it's just really cool to be able to hear stories from people all around the world who are like yes, I made a decision. I packed up my things. I moved from the US and I am living my best life abroad. And so that representation, like you mentioned, it is so important.

Brooklyn Arroyo

And I I think that you mentioned this earlier and I I've just been thinking about it and and completely agree. I think it's an important point to reiterate is that oftentimes we feel like we have to pave the ways for certain identities that we hold or anything like that. And oftentimes people are a little insensitive to that and oh, so yeah, you have to pave the what pave the way like you should be proud of that. But that's extremely isolating and I think that we should be able to build these communities and see that no, you don't have to pave the way because there are plenty of people who are just like you who are doing the same sort of great things, and so I think that it's really important and and props to you for this podcast and amazing program because I think that's excellent. 

Raquel Dailey

Thanks.

Brooklyn Arroyo

So, within your work now, what does your day-to-day look like? Is each day different? Do you have sort of a theme to the work that you do?

Raquel Dailey

Yes, I would say the theme to the work that I do is advocacy, which I have recently realized is extremely important to me. And so, but day-to-day is totally different. Completely different on a day-to-day, which I enjoy. I think if I wanted something where I did the same thing every day, I probably would get a different job. So, but advocacy is definitely a theme to what I do. So, within my current role, as I mentioned, I work with our international students, specifically in the area of employment. And so, there's a lot of advocacy that's needed for employers. Say yes, you can hire an international student. Yes, they can have an internship with you and no there is nothing that you have to do. No, you do not have to sponsor them just because they say they are international and they are in their junior year. And so, a lot of employers don't actually know what is needed on their end and so I get to have a lot of those conversations. I get to have a lot of, ease a lot of tensions or fears, either on the employer side or on the student side, to really shed light on the wealth of experience and the wealth of knowledge that international students bring to any organization. And so also, I get to be a part of those conversations as we're looking to create more equitable access to opportunities for all of our student populations within my institution. I get to be a part of those conversations. And so, I definitely think advocacy is an overarching theme of what I do, and so that could look like meeting with other members of our team because they have an idea of a way that we can really include student populations that aren't really engaging as much. It could be meeting with an employer because they are interested in hiring an international student, but they're not really sure the steps to take as to how to do that. It could be meeting with our Education Abroad office to partner with a study abroad reentry program and help students learn how to articulate that study abroad experience on a resume or in a in an interview. So, it really can look different from day-to-day, but advocacy is definitely a big part of my role.

Brooklyn Arroyo

I think that I personally relate to your comment on not wanting to do the same sort of thing every day and having advocacy focus. But so, I just wanted to ask a little bit more because I think that you have expertise on sort of misconceptions that may still exist or that you have seen about what it means to be an international student, whether that is from the eyes of an employer, from a student themselves, from a host family, and and have you seen that and what does that look like?

Raquel Dailey

Yeah, so I think they're one one of the main assumptions is that an international student wants to live in the US and stay in the US forever. And that's not necessarily the case. Some students are here because they feel like the institution that they're a part of is the one that would provide them with the best opportunity to gain the information and resources that they need to then go back to their home country or to go to another country. And so, I think that there is a misconception that, you know many times and it is true that there are some students that are like, yes, I've always wanted to work for Google, and I want to be there and so that is my goal, but there are some others that are like I always wanted to go start a school in my city. And so that's why I'm here to gain the tools I need to be able to go back home and start that school. And so that's important to understand is that every international student is an individual. Like everyone has their own individual ideas, dreams, passions, motivations, goals, and so being able to address each person as that, regardless of where they're from or what they're doing, is very important. And then also on the employer side, I think sometimes employers just equate international student with having to pay extra for them to work there and that's not a thing. And so, you know, students can participate in internships, and students can participate in optional practical training following graduation. They can do all of those things without an employer ever having to pay a dollar, and so it is possible that an international student can graduate from college and work from one to three years with an employer without an employer ever having to sponsor them. And that is often something employers have no idea. And so just understanding that like each person is individual and addressing each each situation as an individual situation and not just overarching international students, I think is very important.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Yes, we are all our own people with our own

Raquel Dailey

Exactly. Exactly.

Brooklyn Arroyo

 So, for our final question that we asked of our interviewees is what inspires you right now?

Raquel Dailey

So, I think what inspires me right now, which again was really uncovered over the course of my doctoral work, is people or organizations or things that really put equity and access at the forefront of what it is that they do. And so, like when I think about my, the work that I'm doing now, the work that I do within higher Ed, working with international students, working, focusing on inclusion within the career development space, it really is an opportunity for me to help create opportunities and to create access to opportunity for people who otherwise it wouldn't be possible, but my recent venture of Best Life Abroad, it is really the same thing to say this is something that's attainable to you and for those who felt that this was not attainable. Let me show you. Let me give you the steps that you need to take in order to make this something that is attainable. Also, I'm a certified Clifton Strengths Coach. And so, one thing I do with that work is I help organizations to create more inclusive spaces and so that's organizations, managers, leaders and again that is OK, we have this space. How can we make it so everyone feels like they belong here? How can we make it so people want to stay here? And so really focusing on equity and access and providing opportunities and spaces where people thought opportunities might not be available is very important. And that's something that really inspires me to do what I do. And then also my family. Like so I as I mentioned, I had a a son over the course of my doctoral program. I've had have a daughter who's now 18 months and equity and access, they are brown babies and so equity and access is something that is very important to me because I know it's something that will be important for them. And so, I know that the work that I do right now will ultimately have a direct impact on what they have access to and what they can do in the future. And so, it is a great inspiration. They are a huge inspiration for me for what I do. Because I know that, I know that my work is important and I know that my work is important specifically, not just like generally speaking it's important, but I know it's also very important for my children. I want my children to study abroad I. I don't want to be apart from them, so I might like take a secret flight and go to a neighboring city. But but I want them to study abroad. I want them to do all the things, but I don't want them to have the experience I had abroad. I want them to have an amazing experience abroad and so I know that the work that I do right now can impact that. And so those are the things right now that are at the forefront of my mind that really inspire me as I as I go through my days.

Brooklyn Arroyo

I think that your children will likely love having you stay over.

Raquel Dailey

Haha, is this recorded so I can make sure I play it back to them?

Brooklyn Arroyo

Yes, you can keep this forever. So, but I I think that that is extremely inspiring and and impacting the generations to come is something that is amazing and the work that you're doing I think inspires other people as well. 

Raquel Dailey

Thank you.

Brooklyn Arroyo

So, you’ve just had that flame and I've really really enjoyed working with you today and thank you for coming on the podcast.

Raquel Dailey

Thank you. Thanks so much.