Dr. Kelly Siegel-Stechler, PhD in Education | Senior Researcher at Tufts University

In this episode, we discuss what led Kelly from her interest in youth programming centered on international affairs to pursuing a PhD in Education, the ways she managed the stressors of her PhD by taking a holistic approach to life, and her advice for facing the challenges of transitioning out of graduate school.

Hosted by Lois Dankwa

To connect with Kelly and to learn more about her story, visit her page on the PHutures #100AlumniVoices Project website.

Transcript

Lois Dankwa

Hi! I'm co-host, Lois Dankwa, and this is the 100 alumni voices podcast, stories that inspire, where we explore the personal and professional journeys of a diverse group of 100 doctoral alumni from Johns Hopkins University. Today, we're joined by Kelly Siegel-Stechler, PhD in Education and current senior Researcher at Tufts University, Hi Kelly.

Kelly Siegel-Stechler 

Hi Lois! Thanks for having me.

Lois Dankwa

How are you today? Yeah, yeah, of course. How are you today?

Kelly Siegel-Stechler 

I am doing good. It is snowing here in Boston, and I am finding it very beautiful and cozy.

Lois Dankwa

I love the snow, and that's a great mood to start this conversation with, right. Well, I first want to start by hearing a little bit about what made you pursue a PhD in education, and just learn more about your graduate work at Hopkins.

Kelly Siegel-Stechler 

Yeah. So, I honestly would trace it back to as a teenager. My family, I grew up actually here in the Boston area, and and I lived here until I was 14, and my family moved abroad. When I was 14 we moved to the United Kingdom, and it was massively influential on me, and sort of an introduction to political life and citizenship in a way that I wasn't really anticipating. So, I moved to the UK in 2002, which was the same time that Bush was president, and Tony Blair was the Prime Minister and the US declared war in Iraq, and it was extremely, and the UK was like one of our allies, and was extremely unpopular in the UK among people that I was going to school with, and knew socially, and I was the only American that they knew. I was the only American that they had contact with, and I sort of became the poster child for Americanness, and what it meant to be an American and political decisions that I couldn't vote for that I didn't really understand, and so I sort of very quickly became super interested in government and politics and international relations. And this idea of being an American person that had never would never have been a way that I would have defined myself or seen it as part of my identity as a child suddenly became like the forefront most defining characteristic of me, and it really sort of created this trajectory to be intellectually curious about these things. And so, I went to college. I pursued international relations and political science, and I started working in an education program sort of teaching young people about international affairs, and as I was doing that in my early twenties, I just got more and more interested in that socialization process, like what it was doing to young people to be exposed to these ideas to think more globally about people with different perspectives, different ideas, different ways of seeing the world and what that was sort of doing for their personal and intellectual development beyond, like the actual content of what I was teaching them. And that sort of drove me to want to get a PhD pursuing that. And you know I had always been good at school. I was really interested. I kind of dreamed of getting a PhD as a young person, but I didn't really have any role models or idea of what that would look like and what that would mean. And I was really lucky to find a few mentors when I was working in New York City, and one of them was Ashley Burner, who is now a professor at the School of Education, and she was my boss in New York, and she moved to Baltimore to to take this job at Hopkins and I—it was very kind of fortuitous. It was the same time that I was starting to apply to graduate programs, and had been thinking about that. And so, I sort of ended up at Hopkins to work with her, and just got really lucky to find somebody who understood what I was interested in and where I was coming from. She had also lived in England for a while. She did her graduate work there, and so we had a lot in common, and sort of was my shepherd through the PhD process.

Lois Dankwa

I love all of that. It's the things that stuck out to me the most in the words that kept popping up were that it's really those moments in our lives that are both formative or serendipitous, that get us to the moment where it looks like, Oh, wow! Your path was so wonderfully drawn out! You did such a good job! Even though it was like I didn't realize I would be in the UK and that I would be viewed in this perspective. And it it makes me think about how. So, I want to eventually get to the conversation about this awesome mentor it sounds like you had, but I think that I'm interested in digging more into, and it doesn't need to be specifically about when you were a teen in the UK, but how kind of that awareness of how you exist in a space really informed how you understood how you approached your school work, how you existed in your PhD program, and all of that?

Kelly Siegel-Stechler 

Oh, yeah, I mean, I think that's a huge question. And I think it's a project, at least for me, that I like, it's a lifelong thing to figure out how you show up in a space, how you take up space there, and the way that other people see and understand your identity. I grew up in an affluent, very white suburb, and I moved to the UK and sort of this idea of being an American person got attached to me. But then I moved back, and I felt really stifled, and I went to college in New York City. And it was so much more diverse and just the variety of people that I met and interacted with every day was so different than either my life in England or my life in the Boston area, and it was a learning curve. I was really lucky to make friends and get to spend time with people who were patient and kind, and gave me a lot of space to learn and understand things. Especially like my I went to NYU as an undergrad which has a really diverse student body in a lot of different ways. But, like my sophomore year at college, I lived in a suite with I was one of 6 women, and we had 4 rice cookers among the 6 of us, and like I do not I

Lois Dankwa

That's amazing.

Kelly Siegel-Stechler 

I am white. I grew up in a household where we ate pasta, not really rice, and the idea that a rice cooker existed I didn't even know until I moved in a kitchen with these women, you know, and they were coming from different backgrounds, too. And I was like, oh, cool like we don't need 4 rice cookers for 6 people, but just like little things like that that sort of shift I don't know sometimes right like it's hard to see the water when you're a fish, and you're swimming in it. And sometimes those small moments of like getting to see yourself from the outside, or be connected to small things that sort of illuminate big things is really valuable. And so going into my PhD program, I think I was really just genuinely curious to be getting to work with people and talk about ideas in a setting where everyone was coming from really different places. I mean my cohort was only 4 people. We had really different interests and pretty different backgrounds. A lot of people who pursue a PhD in education are former teachers. I am not. I was never a full-time classroom teacher. I did a lot of work with teachers and like programming and working with young people. But I never was like in a public school going in and teaching 6 classes a day every single day, and that meant that the kinds of kids that I was interacting with in after school programming and summer camp programming and things like that, just a different subset of kids than you see as a history teacher or a math teacher in whatever school setting you're in. And so, you know, just being curious and getting to hear different stories, and have people tell me things I never would have thought of before was really wonderful and exciting and super challenging. But yeah, I am really grateful for the colleagues around me and the professors who have so much depth and exposure to different intellectual traditions that I found really valuable. So, one of the things I really loved about my doctoral program is that education is an interdisciplinary applied field. It can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. And at Hopkins there's just one PhD in education. There's not like an Ed-psych program and a Ed-policy program and a curriculum and teaching program. And so everybody is sort of in one place, and in your first two years you’re taking sort of like a core course that introduces you, like a set of courses that introduce you to each of those different ways of thinking about Education. So, like one has a psychology focus. And one has a or 2 have a sociology focus. You've got like a policy focus. And so, it's just a very, there's like a sort of an intellectual round robin of like which of these is right for me. What resonates with me, and and how are my peers also? Right like how I saw my peers engaging with reading materials in our sort of critical theory course was really different than science of learning and neuro and cognitive science stuff. And so that was also not just watching myself, and sort of going through that process for me, but getting to see how other people engaged with it was really valuable and worthwhile.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, that's, so many wonderful things were said. I think the first thing I'll say is that as a West African rice was a staple for us. So, 4 rice cookers does sound excessive, but rice is important, so I'm glad that you were not starved for rice. I think the second thing I'll say is that I think a thing that kept coming up to me while you were talking was kind of the idea of otherness and otherness can come—it depends on the person you're looking at it from, right. I think a lot of people can relate to the experience that you've shared with us so far, because sometimes you view other people as the other. Sometimes you feel like the other, and it affects like we were just talking about how you show up in the space. But it I think it also like it's something that we have to navigate, and I think often as PhD students, candidates, postdocs, it's something that you have to figure out, because the process of being in this journey really challenges you in a way where, even if you're the most confident person in the world, you're like, am I equipped for this this thing that I've chosen? Who decided to do all of this research? Not me. And it makes me, it makes me curious how like, what are the skills that are like things that you've done in the past and that you do currently, that have helped you when you experienced that otherness feeling in your PhD program?

Kelly Siegel-Stechler 

I love this idea of otherness because I I think it shows up in my research a lot. I think it's really like a driver of civic engagement and political socialization to have those experiences of seeing yourself as the other. For a lot of young people, that is what motivates them to like, get involved, or get curious, or want to try and make change in the world. And I think right like that's kind of my story, too, but it manifests in so many different ways, and I think it's just really important to learn how to balance like, how do I interact with other people that I bring as being others? And how do I respond when I am in that situation for myself? I mean, I think in some respects I was lucky to have opportunities to travel a lot as a young person, because I sort of had practice. I went to China when I was in the high school for a month, and like before that I had well, I went to, I got to travel a lot when I was a young person. I went to South Africa when I was really young, right after apartheid, and like went to Robin Island and had just that was hugely formative. I lived in Europe, I so I got to travel around there a lot. But going to China in high school was also very much like it was the most different place I had been it felt like, and very much an exercise in like I couldn't even read the words on the signs, right? Like that sort of experience of feeling like I am way out of my depth, that ever else around me knows what's going on, and can navigate the world, and I am very acutely aware every day of the way I'm not. Like I had used chopsticks before but by the end of that trip I finally figured out how to do it like properly. So, I definitely had practice sort of sitting with being in those spaces when you sort of just have to. I think for me a lot of it was learning to set boundaries between my personal and academic life. And to understand that even in right, like, I think the first year of PhD especially is so hard. It's just like a constant reminder of everything you don't know, and everything you haven't heard and haven't learned. I always joke it's like the Game of Thrones like, you know nothing John Snow, like you have no idea what you're getting into, and that can be really draining and scary, especially for people, right, like most people who pursue PhDs, have been successful. They see themselves as smart and capable. They work really hard. They're excited about what they're learning. And so, feeling like a beginner can be really challenging. And I think for me, I spent a lot of it took time, but I dedicated a lot of energy to trying to draw lines around and just set boundaries between, like what is like school and the things that I am learning and the places that I am stretching and growing and like being able to find comfort and trust that like, I'm still a good friend, right. Like I'm still a good partner. I can be a great dog mom, and like I know how to make brownies really well, like 

Lois Dankwa

That's impressive.

Kelly Siegel-Stechler 

Like finding time and space for those things in my life that I knew I could I knew I knew how to do, and to remember that those things are also important, so that even when you're sort of in this environment every day where you feel like the outsider, like trying to knock in that door and get inside and figure things out, you still have really sort of stable safe places in your life where you do get to feel like an expert, and you do get to decide what it means to be successful in very different ways.

Lois Dankwa

Right. It's about reminding yourself that you are good at things. And even though this one thing is hard, you're good at things, so you can still begin to master this new thing.

Kelly Siegel-Stechler 

Yeah.

Lois Dankwa

I love that. I do wanna touch on—I have a couple more questions for you, and I want to touch on mentors. But I kinda wanna go in the direction of kind of how they've helped shape this awesome concept of self and ability to create boundaries and all of that, and I'm kind of curious if you can think of one, if it's 2 or 3 that's fine. But what's the best advice you've received from a mentor?

Kelly Siegel-Stechler 

Oh! That's a really hard question for me to answer. I definitely think part of why I was able to have a successful relationship with my mentor, my PhD Advisor is because she was really—part of it is just her personal values and her way of moving through the world. But she was very adamant about seeing me as a whole person, and caring about my whole life, and making sure that our conversations were never just about the work, right? Like the work is important, but so is spending 5 min to ask how your husband likes his new job, and to look at pictures of your nieces that you got to see last week, and right to share things about their own life and their own challenges, and things going on with them So, maybe that's not advice so much as it is like a very intentional way of being in the world that I really took to heart.  And that was modeled for me super effectively was that like even as you try to make time for everything and fit it all in because there is just an endless amount of work to do in PhD, right? It feels like you could never stop working.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah.

Kelly Siegel-Stechler 

But to actually see those other pieces as important and worthy of time and attention to and to specifically make space for them was really, really valuable. And since I left, I mean just like 2 weeks ago, she gave me the advice that I should set aside a whole day every week for reading and writing, because I've been having a really hard time making time for that in my new role and it's different right but I still think it sort of follows that same advice like, if something is meaningful in your life, and you want it to be a part of it, then you need to set intentional time and space for it, and think holistically about everything that you're trying to include and treat it all as valuable and worthy of its own space.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, it's remarkable how the things that you learn in your PhD aren't necessarily even things related to the PhD. But it's how to be like a version of yourself that shows up in more full ways for certain people or things in your life. Like last year in my second year, I realized, wait, I want to devote more time to my relationships. So, it's, and that has nothing to do with my PhDs. But then, or my PhD. But it's still a skill and a thing that I'm taking away from it. So, I completely understand that. So, I have 2 more questions for you. So, one is now just advice, but advice from you. So, I'm curious what advice you have for kind of current students or post-PhD Individuals that are in a transition moment right now.

Kelly Siegel-Stechler 

Yeah, transition moments are really hard. I think not losing sight of the fact that things are temporary when they're hard, and to not, sort of in that same vein, to not feel like you have no control, right, like you always have some control, even when it feels really scary, even when it feels like I don't know for me the job market felt very out of control, and, like you were just doing what you could and sort of sending things into the ether and hoping for the best. But you're still making choices, and you're still, you have like, you have control over the materials that you're producing, the jobs you're applying to, the places you want to go, the way you show up for things. And even when things are hard, and they feel overwhelming, like you always do have the option to say no, and to take a break, which is super hard for me. I feel like a lifetime of learning to like whittle things down and be more focused. That's like a huge part of the PhD process. But it it comes up again and again, and so, knowing when you can sort of step away and take a break, is really good. And it's okay to feel like you're working really hard and everything is crazy. But like that doesn't have to last forever, and you can, as Kimmy Schmidt would say, you can survive anything for 10 seconds.

Lois Dankwa

This is true.

Kelly Siegel-Stechler 

So, yeah, I think, sort of in that liminal space where everything feels really up in the air and unsettled and just super challenging, remembering that like you will get to and find a place where it doesn't anymore. Like in 2021, I defended my dissertation. I did a job search. I moved to a new city. I sold one house, I bought another house, like it was a whole. It was a lot. And now it's 2023, and I'm not doing all of those things anymore. And you know what? That's good. That's good, right? There are other things that change and other things that happen. But like you're not gonna be in transition forever.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah. That's a good reminder that sometimes things settle. And it doesn't mean it'll settle forever. But there's moments of calm, and yeah, it's not permanent. So, it sounds like you've been talking about a lot of things that inspire you, but I want to, I wanna just ask this question, anyway. And I'm curious what inspires you right now?

Kelly Siegel-Stechler 

I am really inspired by young people. One of the best things about my work is I get to interact a lot with undergraduate college students and K-12 students and young like youth organizers. And they make me really hopeful and excited. Especially I do a lot of work around like youth voting and elections. Youth turnout in the last 3 election cycles has been historically high. Young people are super engaged around issues that they care about, and that matters to them, and they just seem so like poised and ready, and are already doing so much to make a difference in the world that just gets me excited to get to live in the world that they want to create so that inspires me a lot right now.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, it's it's nice to have and see the energy that's coming from people who are, they're fired up, and it fires you up or reminds you, oh, yeah, I shouldn't dim my fire. Let's go I get that. So, I wanna thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you for taking time to chat with us today. It's been a pleasure to chat and just hear a little bit about your story. And yeah, thanks for joining us today.

Kelly Siegel-Stechler 

Thank you. It was really great to talk to you.