Dr. Vishal Yadav, PhD in Chemistry | Postdoctoral Researcher at Pennsylvania State University

In this episode, we discuss what led Vishal to pursue his PhD in chemistry at Johns Hopkins, how his experiences during the Covid-19 pandemic inspired him to become involved with advocacy work on campus and to speak out as an international student and member of the LGBTQ+ community, and his advice for exploring different career paths and being true to yourself when deciding if a career in academia is right for you.
 
Hosted by Lois Dankwa

To connect with Vishal and to learn more about his story, visit his page on the PHutures #100AlumniVoices Project website.

Transcript

Lois Dankwa

Hi! I'm co-host! Lois Dankwa, and this is the 100 alumni voices podcast, stories that inspire, where we explore the personal and professional journeys of a diverse group of 100 doctoral alumni from Johns Hopkins University. Today, we're joined by Vishal Yadav, PhD in chemistry and current Postdoctoral Researcher at Pennsylvania State University. Hi Vishal.

Vishal Yadav 

Hi Lois! I'm so glad to be here, and thank you so much for organizing this. This is this is a great project. And I'm so much looking forward to our chat today.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, me, too. Well, how are you doing today, Vishal?

Vishal Yadav 

I'm doing great. It's it's been a busy time in my work. I have like some back-to-back conferences going on so it's it's really busy time. But I I'm so glad this is kind of like a tiny little break for me as well. So yeah, I'm so I'm so glad to be here and excited to talk about stuff.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, well, I I certainly understand the value of having a break from doing research. I think, before we dive into the value of taking breaks, I want to start by hearing a little bit about what made you want to pursue a PhD in chemistry, but then also just learn more about your graduate work at Hopkins.

Vishal Yadav 

Yeah, absolutely. So, I grew up in the eastern part of India, in a city named Calcutta. And I did my undergraduate study in University of Calcutta, and I moved all the way to the west part of India, and I did my master’s study in IIT Mumbai so, and that was my first time like kind of exposure to research. So, I was applying for different kind of like internships while I was in my master's program, and then I got selected for this internship in the University of Western Ontario, in Canada for a summer as a summer intern, and that was my first exposure to research. So, and then I did my master's thesis, a one-year master's thesis, in IIT Mumbai as a part of my program, and this is when I really like got to know the difference between being in a lab and like doing a taking a lab course versus being in a research lab. And I really enjoyed it, like everything about it, like the problem-solving approach and working with other people, of being collaborative and learning from each other. And really, I enjoyed the benchwork part as a chemist, and that was my first sign that I think I do want to do this for at least next few years, and maybe the PhD is the way to go for me. So, that's that's how I decided that I want to pursue PhD.

Lois Dankwa

That's so cool and what I'll say for me as someone who always struggled in chemistry lab, both in high school and in college, I have great admiration for you who basically did a PhD that was all chemistry lab.

Vishal Yadav 

Yeah, yeah, it was definitely. I mean, when I started, I definitely had a bunch of questions in, especially in synthetic chemistry. A lot of people say that, oh, some people have the synthetic hands, and some people don't. So I don't know what that means, but somehow it worked out for me, and I figured that, okay, I probably do have synthetic hands, and I should I should pursue with this. So yeah, it was quite an experience, but it has been fun the whole time, yep.

Lois Dankwa

That's so cool. I love that, synthetic hands. So, something I'm curious about then is with your synthetic hands and your natural knack for everything that is chemistry, while you were doing your PhD, what were you thinking the like the direction you wanted to go into more like more after your studies would be? And like how is that kind of influencing how you're thinking about what you want for yourself in the future?

Vishal Yadav 

Yeah, that's that's a great question. So, I mean, when I started my PhD, like as a first year student, all I had in my mind like to get through the course work. And like, you know, like checking the boxes and going through the requirements. But as I kind of started like getting into the program especially, I remember, like, after my like graduate board oral exam, which we call GBL, when I really had no classes, no TA, no other obligations other than just doing research in the lab, and this is when I started like taking lead on projects and really started navigating through problems. And it was definitely not walking on a cake all the time. But the problem-solving, as I said, talking to other people and like finding out what's wrong, what's right, so that's something that I started really enjoying in my PhD work, and also I think at the end of my PhD work, like especially during 2020, because when as a bench chemist, we didn't have anything else to do, other than stargazing in the whole pandemic time, when everything shut down and we were basically told that to be at home. And this is when I started involving myself to a lot of student groups and a lot of like advocacy work. This is when I got like work with like diversity teams, like health and wellness, and got to work with a lot of students at the same time. And also I worked with the LGBTQ office at Hopkins with Demere a lot, and I really found that I love mentorship. That's just what I absolutely live for, and that is so important as like being in an academic like being in the academic journey, because a lot of time like I personally experienced or a lot of people experience like the lack of the mentorship part from like the professors or people they're interacting with. So, a combination of like my really passion for chemistry and designs part of it, and also like how I get to interact with people and really motivate them through the power of mentorship. That that was kind of my decision-making moment, that I do want to stay in this, and I want to continue this. So, yeah, I hope that answers your question.

Lois Dankwa

Well, it's, so, you definitely answered my question. But also, it's really, I don't know if it's the word is cool, but it's interesting/fascinating to hear how, yes, 2020 was an uncomfortable situation for you, partly because it just meant you couldn't do any of your research work. But then it was also kind of an invigorating moment where you got to realize a completely different side of your interests 

Vishal Yadav 

Absolutely.

Lois Dankwa

Which that's really cool, because I think that when we're doing our doctoral work, it can so it can be so easy to be so aggressively laser focused

Vishal Yadav 

Yep.

Lois Dankwa

On the project, but then you like, fortunate or not, I can't really tell. But you were able to, because of the circumstances, find a way to think about the stuff that you really enjoyed in a different way. And yeah, I love that. That's really inspiring.

Vishal Yadav 

Yeah, I mean, that's that's something like I to like it's it's great that you also like echoed this thing that we are always like laser focused as a grad student, that especially when you are surrounded by people who are always working and you are constantly comparing yourself with other people, which is not the greatest thing to do. But it's a really tempting thing to do all the time. And I never saw myself doing anything outside the lab. So, 2020 was really an eye-opening moment, and I mean being an international student and speaking in front of people who like grew up in here in US. And I don't know a lot of background of things. I always thought, am I saying the right thing? Am I?  Am I supposed to say this? But when I said it, and when people heard it, and they appreciated my speaking up, this is when I realized my voice has way more power than I thought, and I should step up. I'm an international student. I am a student of coming from a queer community, and I do need to speak up. I do need to address issues. I do need to talk. I do need to represent because representation matter, and if I don't do it, then who would do it? So, this 2020 was really an eye-opening moment for me that oh, my god! I'm capable of so much more than working in a research lab. And this is how I kind of like, really connected with Roshni and other people and other big administration people in the community in the campus, and like, really got to become a part of Hopkins rather than part of just being my professor's lab. So, yeah.

Lois Dankwa

That's so cool. I think that it's it's interesting how it's interesting how you took that kind of twist. And also, you became such a true advocate. So, for me, someone that does like health policy and management work, I I think about advocacy a lot, and I'm curious, though, for you, advocacy isn't necessarily ingrained in the doctoral work that you set out to do. Or at least from my understanding. So I'm curious then after you took a moment that was really heavily focused on advocacy based off of a number of different identities and perspectives that you hold, how did that influence how you approached your research when you were able to go back into the like the lab and do your wet lab research and make inferences?

Vishal Yadav 

Yeah, that's that's a really great question. I was like, I kind of like when I was in the US in 2018, this is when my really, like my self-realization about who I am, and like really my coming out story was right in the place of like, where, like in the middle of my PhD. And I cannot believe that I did that, and I couldn't be able to do that without help of my peers, my friends, who are really supportive around me. But one thing I realized after talking to them, they love me, and they really support for me who I am, but still a lot of people are so unaware of so many things. For example, pronouns, and when I started doing these like advocacy works and started working with people and getting to know more and more, that was my motivation to bring that to the people who are so focused in the lab, and they don't even think about a world outside the lab. And like, really bring it to that level and make them aware that these things exist. Like safe zone training which Demere used to do. I think somebody else is taking over on that and doing it. That was probably one of the best 3 hours I have spent at Hopkins over safe zone training, and when I had that I started talking to people. I was like, there is so much more we don't know, and if you want to be, it's not about like you don't need to be queer to take safe zone training. You can be a really good ally to take safe zone training. There is so much more you need to know. There's so many things you cannot talk about to a trans person that you cannot ask a trans person and that kind of stuff, these awareness. So I kind of like try to make people aware around me, and I would say I was quite successful like, I have started seeing a lot of people started using pronouns in their emails and things like that. Like one of my friends who literally came to me and asked me I just have a good question what what does it mean when somebody puts like she or they, or he or they in their pronoun? I was like well, let’s grab a cofee. Sit down, let's talk because I like that kind of conversation, when people are curious that they know that they don't know something, but they want to know, and I love to be that person who can bring that knowledge to our like general community, and through my advocacy work and through my work with other people at Hopkins. So yeah, it has been a great experience for me to do that.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, it's so important to like to think about or not to think about, but to remember kind of the humanity part of everything. And just go, yeah, like, sure, whatever project you're working on is important. But then the human beings working on the projects are also important.

Vishal Yadav 

Absolutely.

Lois Dankwa

Or the people not working on those projects are important. And I'm I love how you kind of uplifted the importance of it being okay to not know something. And then just asking someone who might be a little bit more knowledgeable and like you talked about how your peers and your community helped really help you feel grounded in moments when you were just figuring out things for yourself and it's it's like right it's almost like a pay it forward type thing where it's like people helped you think through things in like 2018 time, and then, now you're also able to from your own growth, help other people think through just different things. I'm curious then I'd love to hear more about kind of the support like, in whatever aspect of your life that you got, but like the like the peer and community support that was really essential during your PhD and doctoral work, but then also I know you mentioned mentors earlier. But yeah, I'd love to hear more about the people in your life that have gotten you to this moment.

Vishal Yadav 

Oh, yeah. Where should I start? I mean the person I am always and will ever be, will always be thankful to is my mom. Like anybody who has who does conversation with me for more than 5 min, they know that how, who my mom is, and what she does and like what she has done in my life. So, my mom is definitely the prime person to really like the reason I'm here at this moment, because back in 2013, my dad passed away. And after that, like we, he was the only earning member in our family, and I thought that that would be it, because I, if you don't have any earning member, my mom was a housewife, how would I continue with my dream, and studies and other things. But the first thing my mom said, after my dad passed away to me, that your dad is not there anymore, but your dreams are still alive. I can do anything to help you to get wherever you want to go. So, my Mom has been a huge, huge, huge support for me to get to this place. I did share this story during my thesis defense. A lot of people heard it, and I would definitely like share it again. That when I was like going to this Masters Institute in India, which is like one of the top institutes in India, I I competed in a very competitive exam and I had a very good score. That's why I got admitted. But when I was going to get admission I realized the fees for that whole process was enormous, and we didn't have that much money. So, we started going to like different banks and asking for loans and a lot of banks were refusing us. But one, the last bank we went to like my dad had like an account since he was like 15, so we had a long-time connection with that bank, and my mom, like they also refused us to give any money because they were like well, you don't have any savings. You don't have any any earning member. How could we trust you to give you money? And we were walking out, and my mom was like, hey, give me a minute. Let me just go back and tell them something that the bank manager, whoever was like in charge of that, and she went there, and she took out the certificate of that exam, which was like I competed against like 15,000-16,000 people in that exam. And I came up as top 5 students in that exam. And then she put that certificate on the manager's desk and said that if if this person, if my son doesn't get an opportunity just because you don't want to trust us and you don't want to give money, you are losing a talent from your country. So, it's up to you. I'm leaving it in here. So, you decide what you want. And then the next thing he said, Okay, grab a chair. Sit down and ask your son to come inside, and we got approved for the loan, and that's what I call that my mom just did not like give me birth, but she gave me rebirth at that moment, because going to that Institute changed my whole life, my career trajectory. So my mom has been an amazing support in my life, and after I came to US, a lot of people like who I became friends with and especially mentioning my best friend Jaya, she was the prime person who really helped me navigating through my personal life journey, I would say, like I was very afraid of coming off a certain way to the society. One of the things that I was always told growing up that oh, you can be anything, but you cannot be effeminate. And that's what that's what Jaya came into the picture, and she like had multiple conversations with me, and made me realize that it is okay. It is fun. It is who you are. You don't need to pretend to be somebody else. And this was my moment that I started realizing that I'm pretending to be somebody else. This is not who I am. I need to come out from my shell, and later in my life, like my partner, Alex, he has been one of the biggest support for me, like in every single thing like he's the one who really like has been grounding. So yeah, if I had to mention that there are so many people I could mention, but for the interest of time, if I had to mention a few people, these, these are the people I don't even imagine my life without.

Lois Dankwa

I love all of that. So, I like had full body chills when you were telling the story about your mom, and it was just, it's all of the things that you said about your mom, your friend, your partner, just it, it reminds me that it's so important and valuable to maintain our relationships, especially those ones where there are people that are in your corner, and whether they're physically with you or they're with you in spirit, or they’re people that you can call on and they'll be able to answer a call at a drop of the hat. They're just people that help you through this journey, and we should never feel like pursuing a doctorate is something that we're doing alone, because that's certainly not true, and it's it's partly just getting support for the professional pieces, sure, but so much of the doctoral experience, and I'm I'm even noticing it in myself, it's just a it's a personal growing moment where you're really challenging yourself.

Vishal Yadav 

Absolutely.

Lois Dankwa

Like the project is important, but like it's your you're testing yourself. And that's it's so important to have those people.

Vishal Yadav 

Yes, absolutely. I mean, that's how I feel about PhD. Because in every other program I always say people go to medical school. People go to business school. Those schools have a certain structure. Everybody's taking the same number of classes, going to the same class. It doesn't feel that you are alone, even if you are working 24/7, it feels like you are all in together in this. PhD is a whole different game to me. It's like everybody has different journey. Every single time is different, and when it gets tied up with your personal life, what is going on in your personal life, plus your near professional life, it is nobody's journey is equal to anybody other than anybody else's, and this is when it really helps to have a support system, a group of people who can really understand you and not like you don't even need to say that I'm upset. They can just hear your voice and it's like, Okay, what's up? Let's you want to talk? You know grab a drink? Do you want to grab a coffee and talk? And that that really helps, that really does help.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah. So, something I'm curious about then is, what advice would you give to current PhDs or people that are post-PhD?

Vishal Yadav 

Yeah, it. As I said, everybody has a very different journey, but everybody starts with the same, most of the people, I would say, start with the same motivation in like PhD. At least in chemistry. I cannot speak for other fields. That oh, I want to do good work. I want to publish, and that kind of stuff. But I think it's really important over the time to figure out it's not that whether academia, whether you are for academia, but is academia for you? Does Academia deserve you? That's that's that's where it comes down to, because you are always surrounded by people who are academics. We barely get exposure to other fields, so it's very easy to get sucked into that system that if you're not doing well in your lab or in your academic profile, that means you are not worth it. But it's so important to remember that you are so worth it. Continuing an academic program and being a professor is just one of the many options. You have so many other options to explore. So, if you decide that it's really not working out for you, you just are in there just to get the degree. And really explore something else with this degree and with this experience, because, no matter what whether your PhD project is going to work or not, you are going to go through a huge personal growth, go through a huge personal life change just by going through the whole program. That's just to my experience. And what you just said. So yeah, figuring out that what really suits you. And if you are in academia, yeah, keep going. Keep working hard and networking, talking to people, and whatever other people are recommending you, yeah, definitely. But if you ever feel like this is not for you, there is no reason to push yourself to fit in. Find your groups, find your support groups, like professional support groups. Like I had friends who, after their third year or fourth year they really started figuring out, no, I'm really enjoying being in the science policy group. I'm really enjoying being in a consulting group. Go for that. Like explore Hopkins has, or, like many universities, has so many different options where they have at least different clubs and different groups where you get to explore different career options, so that's definitely one of the things and one thing I definitely want to emphasize is, do not, although it's very, very tempting, but do not compare yourself with anyone, because again, everybody has different journey, and we cannot compare each other, although we always do this mistake, and last but not the least, I always say this that no is not a word. It's a statement. Practice saying no to things. Practice saying no to your, if you are super stressed, if you need to focus on something, it is okay to say no to your other lab mates to help, it's okay, to say no to your PI, they're pushing, you too after certain boundary. It is okay to send no to your friends if they want to socialize tonight, and you really want to have time by yourself, because nothing is more important than you and your mental health. And so, saying, no, really puts that boundary and puts that protection around you. So, it's really hard we say that, oh, we are going to upset this people, but no, if they are truly your friend truly your colleague, they would understand. They would respect and value your your opinion and your no. So that's that's something I always recommend. You are your first priority in your life. So, prioritize that.

Lois Dankwa

I love all of that, so I will I will say I'm obsessed with everything you just said, and I think it's so important to remember our worth our value and also just be an advocate for yourself while you're advocating for others and saying no, and recognizing what is necessary for you to maintain your peace is so necessary. I think that you've done a good job today of inspiring me, and in my last question I'm curious what inspires you right now?

Vishal Yadav 

Yeah, I would, I would quote something from my PhD, a moment that I was having a really low point in my PhD time that things were not working. I was also going through personal issues and stuff, and I and that was reflecting on me, and my supervisor he asked me, he’s like, hey, what's going on? You? You seem a little down or something? And I was like, oh, I'm stressed, and he was like, why are you stressed for? So he started talking to me, and what really came out from that conversation is that a lot of people are stressed for so many different reasons in this world, and a lot of people are also stuck with the job they're just doing. They don't enjoy. They're just doing it because they have to. I am in a job, I get to pursue my passion. Every morning I wake up, and I'm so excited to explore what is going to happen today. What is going to happen, what I’m going to do. So being excited and being stressed for science is a blessing. So, I kind of like took that note, and that is kind of like my day-to-day inspiration that I have really the privilege, I would say, that to get to pursue something which I absolutely love, just like people who love to dance, they are dancing for their entire life. People who like to perform, they’re performing their entire life, and I can be that person that I love science. I love projects. I love scientific discussions, and I get to do that for my living, for my day to day life. And it has been, and I do want to continue that in rest of my life. So that's definitely my motivation moving forward. And every day that I I am stressed for science. And that's a blessing. 

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, having the opportunity to explore in your passion, I that is certainly inspirational.

Vishal Yadav 

Yeah, thank you.

Lois Dankwa

Well, Vishal, it's been such a pleasure chatting with you today and hearing your story, and just learning a little bit more about you. Thank you so much for joining.

Vishal Yadav 

Thank you so much for organizing and hosting this. This has been great. I can’t wait to see how this whole project turns out to be. Thank you so much.