Dr. Gayatri Nehrusingh-Pajerowski, EdD in Mind, Brain & Teaching | Assistant Director Educational Opportunity Fund at Passaic County Community College

In this episode, we discuss how Gayatri’s desire to better support her students’ self-efficacy compelled her to pursue a doctoral degree in mind, brain, and teaching at Johns Hopkins, her experiences confronting failure and learning to develop a growth mindset, and her take on the importance of learning how to celebrate yourself and honor your hard work.

Hosted by Lois Dankwa

To connect with Gayatri and to learn more about her story, visit her page on the PHutures #100AlumniVoices Project website.

Transcript

Lois Dankwa

Hi! I'm co-host! Lois Dankwa, and this is the 100 alumni voices podcast, stories that inspire, where we explore the personal and professional journeys of a diverse group of 100 doctoral alumni from Johns Hopkins University. Today, we're joined by Gayatri Nehrusingh-Pajerowski, EdD in mind, brain and teaching and current Assistant Director for the Educational Opportunity Fund at Passaic County Community College. Hi Gayatri.

Gayatri Nehrusingh-Pajerowski 

Hi! Nice to meet you, Lois.

Lois Dankwa

You too. How are you doing today?

Gayatri Nehrusingh-Pajerowski 

I'm doing great. Thank you.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah. It's a little rainy today, but it looks like it's subsided. So, I'm excited to take some time and chat with you.

Gayatri Nehrusingh-Pajerowski 

Yeah, thanks. We share the weather today. Yes.

Lois Dankwa

This is true. Well, I want to first start by hearing a little bit about what drew you to pursuing an EdD in mind, brain, and teaching and just hear more about your graduate work in general.

Gayatri Nehrusingh-Pajerowski 

Yeah, sure. So I always tell my friends and colleagues that the program chose me. I didn't choose it. Simply because I didn't know there was such a thing as mind, brain, and teaching when I was searching for a program. But after I had completed my Master's degree, everyone thought I was just gonna get another job and move forward, cause I do like leadership. They thought I was gonna go in that direction. But I felt empty. I was still looking for something. I couldn't really name what I was looking for caus I had no idea what it was, but I told one of my colleagues, who was much older and like very wise, and I said I feel like I'm searching for something else and I'm thinking about a doctoral program, but I don't know if I can do this, you know, and he's like you can do anything you set your mind to. You told us to do that all the time. So, I was like, okay. So, I started just searching for online programs. And you know, online doctoral programs to see what was there. And I printed out a whole list of all the programs that were online. And then I pen and paper circles in the circle what was interesting to me, and then, when I found mind and the word brain in there, I just sort of like sat for a long time with that. And then I went online immediately, and I put it in and I searched, and it popped up, and then there was the descriptions for the classes that you know you were gonna take for the program. So that sold itself to me. So I say it found me because I had no idea what I was looking for, so I wouldn't change a thing in the world. I have, you know, pictures of my wall in my office you know about how the brain works, and I’m always talking about the brain. So I just really live it every day with students trying to explain to them how you learn. And what that process looks like in the space that we don't think about, you know, inside your brain.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, that's so. I love how you said it it chose you, and I'm certainly interested to learn more about what what it means to pursue a degree that does mind, brain, and teaching mainly because I have a psychology background as well as a neuroscience background. So, I think it's I didn't know that existed either. I think that's really cool. So, I'm just curious like, what is it? What does it mean?

Gayatri Nehrusingh-Pajerowski 

So for me, for initially, a lot of people think it's a lot of neuroscience, but it's a little bit of everything. So it's a little bit of the learning science on a lot of the learning sciences. Understanding, the anatomy of the brain and the way it functions in relation to learning in particularly and how individuals process things in different ways, why we learn differently, you know just what's happening, so, behind the scenes. I'm not, you know, I don't have access to brain scans, you know, but I did attend a brain scan, session at MIT, and it was very interesting. So, in a nutshell I could paint a picture for you. It's a picture that you are solving a math problem, and you might think, you know, you might hear people talk about what part of the brain is math, what part is language, and so forth, but it turns out that we use various parts of our brain incorporated, no matter what we're doing and how that really functions. So, you need to read a word problem and process that as if you were reading in order to figure out how to calculate and how to set that problem up. So, it's really thinking about while all that is happening, and you think about this student that you're working with, whether you're teaching or whatever space you occupy with learning, what does that mean for that person that's trying to learn what's happening to them in that given moment? And what really pushed me into really being more interested in that was the narrative for students at the Community College and the population that we work with, they come out of high school, and they feel low self-efficacy in their ability to learn math particularly, and when they're in, not everyone, but a large population. And they said, I can't. I'm not good at it. So I wanted to pursue that to see how can I, how can I intervene in that space where students need to get through the developmental math to get to college level in order to pursue their interest, the major they are interested in? And that's a barrier. So when I looked at it, what was very interesting, with the mind, brain, and teaching that's where the mind comes in is what's happening in that moment in other areas. So, I looked at the effects. And when I think about anxiety, it's a word, but we don't really talk about anxiety. Maybe now, after the pandemic we talk about it a little bit more, but in the terms of learning in a classroom going to take a test or learning something new and feeling overwhelmed and saying I didn't get it. I just couldn't get it. I’m not smart enough, and understand that it's not you. It's what's happening with all the things that are happening around you, the classroom, the pace, whether you're hungry affects you, which we all know as students if you're having a day where you're something else is happening that's, you know, sort of affecting that ability to focus. If you have other processing challenges with how you process information and how you understand and maybe you need a visual aid and maybe you need more time. So, it's a combination of all that within Hopkins program of mind, brain, and teaching that we were able to really dig deep into. And now I live my life carrying that with me everywhere, in all aspects of my life. A good example, just to share a little more is, I tell students, okay, it's your first semester. It's the summer, if they’re in the summer program. Do you know where, and I call a name of a building, and I said, do you know where that is? And they're like, no. And I was like, okay, if I were to walk you there and you and take you there and then I bring you back would you know how to find it on your own? And they’re like, well, it depends on how complicated. Maybe I'll need to go two or three times. Maybe I'll need to use directions. And I was like, okay, it's the same thing. And then I said, when you're driving home, do you have to think of where you're driving? And do you think of the direction? And they're like no, I could do that while I'm talking to my friends, or whatever. And I said, why is that? And I talk a little bit about how we develop these neural pathways, and that becomes our go-to. And that's how we, how we usually perform right out of that space. And it needs to be intentional to create those new pathways. So, it's the same as if you're not good at something. How you recreate new pathways where you become better at it with time and effort and practice. So, I know it was a lengthy answer.

Lois Dankwa

No, that was, I love a lengthy answer, and I, too, can be long winded, so I think that's really cool, and it makes me think a lot about just being in a doctoral program in general, a lot of kind of the work and stuff that you study is or describes the process and the experience of being in a doctoral program where you experience things that challenge you in a way where you're not sure you can do it. But then sometimes it's your circumstances that makes it more hard than it can be, but then also not everything is our strength, and not everything you're doing in your doctoral program is something that you will be good at but you you end up learning a little bit about. So that's really neat.

Gayatri Nehrusingh-Pajerowski 

Thank you.

Lois Dankwa

I'm curious how kind of the so I guess you were doing you were working while also pursuing this degree. But I'm curious how kind of the things that you knew before being in your program, or the way you understood stuff kind of shifted and transformed while you were in the program, and how that's looks and manifests in your work now.

Gayatri Nehrusingh-Pajerowski 

Oh, yeah, definitely. Have you heard the word comps? So, preparing for comprehensive exam is one of the most anxiety-inducing, as, per my opinion, things in the program that you have to get through, and I would share very, very transparent my first time I did not pass. There was a question that really hit me hard, and I realized, and this is the answer to the question of how I've transformed how I do things and how I operate that space I operate out of. I knew the content, but I was not able to present the content the way I needed to during my comprehensive exam. So, you know I was really good with the first question, second question, third question, you know, do you have a question about the question? I just said no, but I didn't know what I was, I kept staring, and I kept thinking, why am I blank? Why can't I even think? I couldn't even write something down. I was just was just really stressing out. And then the clock was ticking because it's timed and you know, it's it's just, it was just very stressful, and I couldn't think. And I sort of I guess I just said whatever came to mind to respond. But I knew I wasn't really answering the question the way I needed to, cause the first 2 I know I did really well, and when we continued, and we were done. I was waiting for my advisor to say, okay, hop back on Zoom to give that, you know collaborative response of whether I passed or failed. And It was hard on their end, but they knew they want, they knew what I was capable of, and they knew that they wanted me to show that I was capable of doing it, and it wasn't a matter of you don't know this stuff, and you're not good at it. So I cried, of course, and I went downstairs, and I just told my husband and I hugged him, and I and I said, can we move? And he goes. He was like he was so confused. And I said, I want to move to a place where no one knows me, because I'm so ashamed I failed, and he hugged me, and you know I have my little pity party of course, and then the next day we were leaving to celebrate, because it previously were expecting that I was gonna pass and we were supposed to go off somewhere to celebrate. And we did go because we had reservations. But I spent that time reflecting, and I reflected on what I did, what I could have done better, what did I, what scared me, what caused me to kind of have that like I froze literally? And my adviser is a I don't know if we’re allowed to say names but I, okay, Dr. Brown. She is a rock star. She has part of my heart forever. The conversation she had with me was life-changing, and she said, I know you know it, Gayatri. I have no doubt at all in my mind. You've done all the work, and she said all I need for you to do is to figure out how you want to present it in the way that Hopkins would like to see you present it. You know she's like it's just about how you wanna present it. And you have to be brave to do it and believe in yourself. And that's what I needed. And now, the way I operate is, I'm not scared to try to do that because I feel like I might be judged. So, when you ask me what what that experience gave me that I continue to do in my work, I work with students and in a support program, and I get, I get how they feel, because I failed miserably at one of the most important times of my life, and I I'm not used to failing at things. Like I didn't know what I meant to like fail because I work very hard. So, I it was hard for me, but I understand that you know failure is not not doing well the first time. Failure is if you refuse to continue to try and really hone it and really build and develop and work harder, and perform at the level that's expected of yourself, and if you're being evaluated, on how you're gonna be evaluated. So I've that's like the most important lesson because I realized that had I engaged more with my study group and been brave enough to respond more times, I might have realized that there's more fear than I thought there was and it wouldn't have choked me you know at that moment. You know, one of the researchers has this book called Choke, and everybody talks about how you literally feel like you can't breathe, you know, and if that's happening, anxiety is present causing that, you'll your brain can’t function. You can't bring anything out of that. You're in that phase that amygdala just is operating out of, you know, that space. So, it was just really interesting that experience how I carry it everywhere every day, and I share it with students. I don't usually just say, hey, I failed at something, and whatever it's like, I really share with them, that it's not failing. That's not failing. Not doing well, or if you failed a test, it's the word that they're using for evaluation, but you didn't fail. You can still learn it, and that's what I carry all the time. And Hopkins, you know, helped me to believe in myself, because my adviser really helped me to. I didn't know I needed that. You know? I know that you needed to practice and study and dedicate a lot of time. We all know that going into a doctoral program. That's no secret. I think, for me personally, my experience was understanding that I need to believe in me. I need to believe that I can do this, and I need to believe that with more time, more effort, it's possible. And that growth mindset is important, you know. So yeah, I I don't have any other big secrets except, you know, you just work hard.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, I'm so glad that you shared. Thank you for sharing that story with us, and that experience. Just it's never comfortable to experience something like that in the moment, like a type of failure or rejection, and thing that you didn't expect. But stress and having a stress response happens to all of us in different moments. But I'm glad you also shared how you dealt with that. Where it was a combination of you were honest that you wanted to just quit and just go. Can I just let's just toss it. Let's just get rid of all of this. Pretend I didn't do this. It's fine. But you were able to lean on the people in your community in a way where it they help remind you who you were when you couldn't see it. And I think that's something that, as doctoral students, candidates, or people post-doctoral studies, it's something that's important tp remember, because we can often be our biggest critics, right?

Gayatri Nehrusingh-Pajerowski 

Definitely definitely. We judge ourselves the hardest, and we give the least amount of praise to our self or acknowledgement.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah.

Gayatri Nehrusingh-Pajerowski 

And that's really taking time to to acknowledge ourselves is important that we're doing something that's not easy. It takes a lot of work and dedication. And it's important work. It's really important work. And you know, it's we're changing lives as we're doing the work.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah. So, something you just said that we we don't give ourselves enough praises. I'm curious, from your own experiences, have you learned how to celebrate yourself more? And if not, that's okay. I don't know that I have learned how to fully do it myself, either, but I'm curious.

Gayatri Nehrusingh-Pajerowski 

It's so funny that you ask that. I'm still learning. So, I I'm the person where I move on to the next thing, and I I don't really have a reason for that. I just think that maybe maybe it's what I was taught when I was younger that you accomplish and then you what else is there to accomplish next? And I find myself in similar company where others are just high achieving, and they continue to go for the next thing. And before you know it, I know that life is short. Covid taught us that if nothing else, life is short, unpredictable. So, I am slowly learning to appreciate myself. I am not there yet. Before I even started my doctoral program, one of my students are non-traditional student, when I did, my master, she said, Miss Gayatri how are you celebrating? And I just kind of pause, and I was like, what's she talking about? And I was like, well, I'm gonna be going to the graduation. And then for me that's the celebration, right? What else do you want me to do? And then she goes, no! But how are you celebrating? And I was just like, I'm not quite sure what you mean. You mean like a party? You know, and she goes well, whatever you wanna do. And I was like, but I haven't thought about that, you know, because I thought you go to graduation, and that's where you celebrate. That's that's the celebration, right? 

Lois Dankwa

Right. That's like the point of graduation.

Gayatri Nehrusingh-Pajerowski 

Right, right. But that's not what she was asking me. And then it turned out that, of course, Covid happened during, you know, I graduated during Covid, so we got a slide at that time, point in time, and it didn't feel like, it didn't feel like much, because, you know, it was Zoom. And it was this slide. And and what do you do with a slide? You take a screenshot and you put it on face, I don’t know, social media. So, I think that I think that made me realize that I did all this work, and I needed to do more. At that point in time, we didn't know we were gonna have a joined graduation in ‘21. So that was in ’22, sorry. So, that was in ‘21 and in ‘22 when we were invited to graduation and actually be hooded by our advisors, that was a remarkable point in time for me where I realized the value of celebrating, and my sister was here, and my brother-in-law, and my children, and they take a million pictures, and I and I was, I let them. I didn't say enough. Let's go. Gosh! You know, usually I'd say that it was just like, yes, I want a really nice picture in this yellow, you know, we joke about it. We call it you know, Bumblebee outfit, you know. But I really, I wanna yeah, yes, keep taking pictures. So that was that was like the beginning. And then, when I got back to work, everyone was excited, and I didn't know how to acknowledge that now I was doctor, and someone said Dr. G, and it felt weird cause I couldn't, I couldn't process it.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah.

Gayatri Nehrusingh-Pajerowski 

It felt, and then I felt like I didn't I'm like, why are they calling me that? And they continue to call me Dr. G. And that's the new name they made for me, and I just never introduced myself, even on, you know, in different spaces, as Dr. Gayatri, you know, like I didn't own it. I'm slowly owning it. I'm still learning how to. I feel very proud. I'm Hopkins proud. I wasn't used to getting the eye when I said Johns Hopkins either. I I didn't cater for that either. So, where did you get your degree? Johns Hopkins. And that look, and I was like, what's that about? You know, cause I know it's a good school, but I it was all new, so I'm you know. So, when it comes to celebrating, I think I'm learning from the people around me, from their acknowledgement, but I do acknowledge that that's not enough, because I need to set examples for the students that I serve and as well as my children that you work hard and you need to acknowledge yourself for the work that you've done, because it's important, you know.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah.

Gayatri Nehrusingh-Pajerowski 

So I am still bad at moving on to the next thin,g which I did move on to a next thing. You know, I did get a coaching certification from Brown University, and that's that's been really helpful because it it it forced me to think in a different way. So, like I always say, now I tell my friends, or you know, I said, I have all Hopkins knowledge in me, and then I use my coaching voice to share that. So.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, I love that. You know what it's all of us kind of celebration of yourself can show up in a lot of different ways, I think. I, for myself also struggle with going like not going to the next thing, and I think sometimes the way you celebrate yourself can just be resting and relaxing and going for the next couple of days, even just hours, I'm just gonna just enjoy it. I'll go on a walk. For me, I'll get ice cream or I'll buy something new for myself, just because, and treating yourself can be all kinds of things like that. And sometimes the treat is not pressuring yourself about finding what the way to treat yourself is, right. I think we're all in process. So, it's okay if we're not perfect at knowing how to celebrate ourselves. I do have one more question for you, and I'm curious what inspires you right now?

Gayatri Nehrusingh-Pajerowski 

So, my answer is simple. I feel compelled to live my purpose. I know that not everyone is lucky or fortunate, or in the space that they occupy to live their purpose. But I feel very, very grateful that I have the gift to be in this space to do so. Every single day that I interact with another human on campus whether it's a student or a professional, I have, I have the opportunity to impact them in some way, and that, seeing their gratefulness that they have, you know, in conversations, or some little thing like the thank you, and it's not just, thank you. It's thank you. Like, there's something else that comes with it, that spirit that comes with it, that inspires me to continue. So, even when I'm tired, or even if I'm busy and, do you have a minute? Yeah, I have a minute. What do you need? Because that drives me and I can't imagine. I can't imagine not having that every day.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, I understand that right being kind of motivated and driven and yeah, just excited by people where you you can really just visually see that you're helping people, even if it's just one. And even if the way you're helping them is by you going to someone else like, make sure you celebrate yourself. And then they are not so stressed at like, I understand how that's fulfilling, and I certainly can identify with that too.

Gayatri Nehrusingh-Pajerowski 

Yeah, it's such a good feeling. It's a I feel blessed. And I also I also identify with a lot of our students. Because, you know, I migrated here, and my little one little suitcase, and my little daughter, and looking for opportunity for her. And then I got so much more than what I came for. I came for her to have an opportunity, and it was, it's a gift that continues to give for me. I continue to gain so much, not knowing that there was gonna be so many opportunities for me to serve others. So, I feel each day I feel a certain obligation to make it count.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, I understand that. I love that. Gayatri, it's been so wonderful learning from you and hearing about your experience just a little bit today. Thank you so much for joining. 

Gayatri Nehrusingh-Pajerowski 

Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate being here.