Lois Dankwa
Hi! I'm co-host! Lois Dankwa, and this is the 100 alumni voices Podcast, stories that inspire, where we explore the personal and professional journeys of a diverse group of 100 doctoral alumni from Johns Hopkins University. Today, we're joined by Claire Zhao, PhD in biomedical engineering and current associate director at Pfizer. Hi Claire.
Claire Zhao
Hi, Lois! Thanks for having me.
Lois Dankwa
Yeah, thanks for joining us. So how are you doing today?
Claire Zhao
Busy as usual. Busy day. Yeah.
Lois Dankwa
Well, despite your busyness, I'm glad that you joined us, and I to dive in then I'm curious what made you want to pursue a PhD in biomedical engineering. And yeah, could you tell us more about your graduate work at Hopkins?
Claire Zhao
For sure. So, before I start with Graduate Hopkins, let me just touch a little bit on my undergrad work. So, in my undergrad at Waterloo I got exposed to a lot of different experiences throughout industry during for my co-op jobs. I did 6 co-op jobs, and I sampled a lot of biomedical related research areas in hospitals or in biomedical related biotech or other other companies. So I thought, you know, like said, it is such exciting field to be able to apply like a quantitative engineering background to to something that will solve a biomedical problem. So that's why I pursued a PhD. Because also at the time that I kind of felt like with the undergrad education, even though it gets you pretty well in a lot of situations, but I think that wanted to go deeper, because I discovered there's so much that I don't understand during my job and also schooling. That's why I started doing my PhD. And during PhD, biomedical engineering is the perfect program that combines, like both the biomedical and medicine world, as well as like the engineering aspect that quantitative thinking all of that together in the same program. And Hopkins is definitely the place to do it. And then I joined the Institute for computational medicine. And then in that I did my work under my advisor, Dr. Raimond Winslow, where we did computational modeling of various cellular biology, especially in the cardiac cells. So, yeah, that's basically, where my thesis is.
Lois Dankwa
That's pretty cool, and I love how you started by sharing a little bit about how it was undergrad curiosity that led you to be interested in a PhD or in pursuing a PhD. And I am curious then, while you were working on your doctoral work, and during your PhD work, did you have thoughts about what direction you wanted to go in professionally while you were kind of working with your advisor and doing the different projects that you were working on?
Claire Zhao
Yeah, I think, first of all, I guess, going for me myself, going into industry definitely need to keep an open mind into the transition whatever you want to do after graduation. But then I think the overall theme is, I am very drawn into like data analysis and also quantitative analysis of some kind of a phenomenon where I can shed insight through this data approach. So, I think that is the overarching theme, and that led me to my current career path.
Lois Dankwa
I understand that. Yeah, it's for you, it was less about perhaps a specific topic, but you realizing that you liked doing a certain type of thing which was presenting evidence and like making new inferences with data?
Claire Zhao
Definitely for sure. I I think I think you know, like I guess, one advice for a current PhD student is, you know, you can't be too specific, especially when you're transitioning to the industry, right? Because whatever you do in your thesis is very specialized, and you may find a perfect match but a lot of chances is that you may not find a perfect match on a specific topic.
Lois Dankwa
That's actually such good advice. And I think about something you stated was how it can be challenging kind of switching from industry, one because of what you just said, that your dissertation work is so specific, but what you do in industry may not be as specific. But I'm curious then what was it like for you transitioning from being in an academic setting to then being in industry? And like we're all of your roles after graduation industry? And kind of what did that transition look like for you?
Claire Zhao
Right. So, I mean, I'm not gonna lie that it's gonna it's very difficult. Everybody graduating works long hours, right? Just like, no question about that. But I think for me is more like you have the direction, you have the skillset, and you want to understand in what kind of field that your specific skillset and knowledge give you a head start in certain things, give you an edge in certain things, right? So, but and then in terms of industry, I think a lot of factors influence your specific project. I think a lot of you know marketing structures or the current situation, like like public health situation for a pharma or other factors, will influence your project. There is a top-down influence rather than PhD a lot of work are self-driven is is more like a bottom-up discovery process, right? And given that situation, you have to be flexible and always address that on that need that you agree with that are given from a more global view. I think that is my perspective.
Lois Dankwa
I understand that. I so something I'm curious about then is, how did you kind of prepare yourself to enter into a nonacademic space, knowing that it would be like opposite basically?
Claire Zhao
So, I guess I had exposure to the industry as an undergraduate. So, I had 6 jobs in the industry. And then so that really going into the PhD, I'm pretty I'm pretty open to actually going into the industry path rather than pursuing an academic life. So, I'm actually mentally prepared maybe maybe more than most people given my past experience. And then I think I think it's during that transition you have to definitely the basic set is really sharpen up your regime and really understand what exactly is your skill set and what exactly is translatable from a basic research setting to a more applied resource setting. And what is your past experience that can make you have advantage over people with other skillsets.
Lois Dankwa
Yeah, that's such a good point. You mentioned 2 things that really stuck out to me. So really, the difference between basic research and applied research. But then, also remembering, like remembering our uniqueness. I think the first one that I want to dig into more is entering a space or kind of how how we can think about transitioning from doing basic research to then being in a more applied setting? And I'm curious like what advice you have. But then also, how did you like I know that you said you had experience in the past, but coming fresh off the heels of doing dissertation work like, what are the things that are striking to you that you have to relearn how to do if you're in an applied setting?
Claire Zhao
Yeah, I think, first of all, during PhD, you have a lot time to do what you have and you pretty much, only have your thesis to worry about. At work, you, you, the the turnaround time for deliverables are much shorter, right? And also, you have a lot of priorities to deal with. So, I think that is one thing that you need to keep in mind of. Yeah. Sorry, what was the other question?
Lois Dankwa
Well, no. Yeah, that was what I was that was what I was curious about, like how we, how you deal with being in a more applied space. And you bring up good points that during your dissertation that's literally what you have to do. So you have more time to do like trial and error and stuff like that. But then at work, even if it is a research role, you just have more responsibilities it sounds like.
Claire Zhao
Yes, for sure. So basically, I think, like, at a at least a setting, you can worry a lot about like methodology design, all the that's theoretical stuff, and also worry about very basic signs, questions or investigation of a natural phenomenon. At work, yeah, you're more like, there are hundreds of possibilities like that possibly addresses this question. I have limited resources. How do I select a method? Even though it's probably not all that innovative from a academic point of view, but can deliver the most result with the limited resource I have, and how much impact I can potentially have on the questions being asked. I think that's very important. It's a very question and result driven environment.
Lois Dankwa
Oh, I see. That's helpful to thank you for kind of clarifying more a little bit. So, it's it's really about impact. And I think that it goes on kind of the second question I had then, that was about really, when you're trying to enter a space that's more applied instead of investigation focused, like being able to highlight how you’re maybe different than other people that are in the space, and how you're kind of providing value, since it seems like in industry roles it's very focused on impact and added value and things like that.
Claire Zhao
For sure, for sure, and and given that I'm just saying like in academia it’s definitely people are handling a lot of challenges, early discovery, right. In industry, you're already the earliest discovered stuff has already worked. In industry you're taking other people's results and advancing them another in another direction worth since such as scalability. You know, kind of working at different phases of the problem as well. If you look at that way. Yeah.
Lois Dankwa
That's actually, so, I love how you mentioned kind of it's about just working at different phases. And then so something I'm curious about then is how like what are what does like your day to day look like then? And like, what are the exciting parts about you being at a different phase of the research process in your current role?
Claire Zhao
I think it's about surprise problems, right? A lot of times you don't think certain things would be a challenge, but actually, implementation is actually a lot of challenges. And then you not only have to think about the problem being solved at a smaller scale with very smart, specialized people, but I also have to think about how the problem of scale when you are handling all sorts of hatchet genius used cases and situations, that infrastructures, and special needs of different people who may receive your solution.
Lois Dankwa
Yeah, it's what's funny is that while you were talking it was making me think about how it's important to be able to pivot, and a thought that I had right after that was how like the pivoting is something that we learned during our PhD work too. But it's it's interesting to see the ability to respond to things that are out of your control, but like, have that show up in a work setting.
Claire Zhao
Yeah, you know what I love the word pivot that you just said. I think that's what we constantly do at work. And sometimes we don't even think about pivoting anymore. I think it's really make this situation work for you, or because, you know, in a PhD setting, you should be and you are the pretty much sole driver of your own work. That's the nature of investigation in PhD in most situations. At work, you may have hundreds of people who are trying to contribute to the grand goal. And how do you pivot and adapt yourself and work with others in the situation is very important.
Lois Dankwa
Yeah, so then I actually the question I have for you then, is like, how how do you pivot when you're working with hundreds of people and everyone's involved in the same product, but in different ways?
Claire Zhao
For sure. Yeah, I mean, first of all, I definitely have the right mindset. So, I have an entrepreneur mindset, where you are not afraid of changes, right? That's sometimes difficult to have, because that means a lot of times you may have to ditch what you had originally to come up with something new in certain situations. But and also I think it's also how you position your skillset and so that you can think about win win situations with other parties, so that you can deliver on the same goal, using like different unique aspects and outcomes that each different party contribute to make the story more holistic, to make your results more holistic.
Lois Dankwa
Oh, I love that! I'm such a fan of kind of like teamwork and collaboration, and having different stakeholders working together. So yeah, I get that that's that would be both surprising but also the fun, the fun part of working in the space that you're in as well. So I'm curious then what advice would you give someone who was interested in your career career field or a career that looks like yours?
Claire Zhao
I think it's definitely to first of all develop a very strong core skillset that makes you comfortable in the discipline itself. And then definitely, I would say, you know, network, get to know the industry, get to know the people, being exposed to real world problems and understand the limitation of your skillset so that you're open to opinions of other people.
Lois Dankwa
Yeah, that's such a good point. Just the highlighting about understanding the limitations of your skillset, because, as people we’re not good at everything, or we're not able to do absolutely everything. But having that awareness helps us be able to respond to criticism well, but then also know what roles are for us, or what roles are, are not for us.
Claire Zhao
Yes, I think that is definitely something also very challenging at work, right? Because, being a very smart Hopkins PhD student, you're very capable, and you're very driven, and you like to do a lot of things, but I think at work, and especially as you advance then to be more specialized, I think a lot of thoughts, a lot of thoughts needs to go into this space to make sure that you're not overspreading your energy and really work with others who are actually experts in certain areas. Yeah.
Lois Dankwa
That's such a good point. I'm glad that you mentioned being entering certain types of people are very capable. Yes. But then, as you grow more senior in spaces, recognizing your limitations is so important to be able to keep showing up fully in whatever role you have.
Claire Zhao
Absolutely.
Lois Dankwa
So, as my last question, I am curious what inspires you right now?
Claire Zhao
What inspires me, I think, I think, is seeing what I work actually makes the impact in all the decision-making that has been happening rather than you know I publish a paper and people cite it, and that's the end of the story.
Lois Dankwa
Yeah, I understand that. I love that just really, seeing your work be a part of important change.
Claire Zhao
For sure. Yeah.
Lois Dankwa
Yeah, well, Claire, it's been so wonderful to kind of hear more about you, and having you share with us today. Thank you so much for joining and chatting.
Claire Zhao
Thank you.
