Dr. Alfredo Caro, PhD in Biophysics | Senior Scientist at Agrospheres

In this episode, we discuss what led Alfredo to pursue a PhD in biophysics at Johns Hopkins, why he decided to leave his career in academia and step outside of his comfort zone to work for an agricultural biotech startup, and his take on the importance of having a supportive network to help you through the job-search process and within your career.

Hosted by Lois Dankwa

To connect with Alfredo and to learn more about his story, visit his page on the PHutures #100AlumniVoices Project website.

Transcript

Lois Dankwa 

Hi! I'm co-host! Lois Dankwa and this is the 100 alumni voices podcast, stories that inspire, where we explore the personal and professional journeys of a diverse group of 100 doctoral alumni from Johns Hopkins University. Today, we're joined by Alfredo Caro, PhD in Biophysics and current senior scientist at Agrospheres. Hi Alfredo.

Alfredo Caro 

Hi Lois! I'm doing good.

Lois Dankwa 

How are you doing today?

Alfredo Caro 

I'm doing good.

Lois Dankwa 

Yeah, well, it's it's a sunny day in DC, so I'm doing good as well, which is great.

Alfredo Caro 

It's almost 80 cells—80 Fahrenheit here in Virginia. It's crazy.

Lois Dankwa 

Yeah. It's very hot, because it's February, but we'll embrace it. So, I wanna start by hearing about what made you wanna pursue a PhD in biophysics, and just hear more about your graduate work at Hopkins.

Alfredo Caro 

Yeah, I started off in physics, because it runs in the family. Both my parents are physicists, and I, by the end of college I wanted to get hands-on experience. I just wanted to do lab work and ask some questions, and I had the feeling that physics, all the questions in physics were either really big or really tiny and really far away in space. So, I wanted to work with something tangible, and and biology seems like a great mess to get involved in. And so I went into biophysics, and then and joined the program at Hopkins. And there we looked at proteins, and how they respond to pressure, and we would apply, you know, 3,000 atmospheres of pressure, this 3 times the pressure at the bottom of the ocean, and the questions, you know, they seem kind of eccentric, but they turns out they reveal a lot about how or how proteins behave the way they behave.

Lois Dankwa 

That's so cool. I a thought that I had was what even is Biophysics, but then you, it's applying physics to biology which that's really cool as someone that's spent some time doing work thinking about different proteins and mutations and all of that. I didn't even know you could apply pressure to proteins. So that's really cool. And I'm curious then, yeah, is what parts of the work that you were doing during your doctoral program kind of continue into what you do now? And how did the experiences you were doing then influence what you were excited about and what you wanted to continue?

Alfredo Caro 

Yeah, I did not plan this at all. I really latched on to this question about pressure, and it turns out cavities and empty spaces within the protein have a play a big role. And so, I just became a little obsessed with those voids, and I paired that through you know my PhD and then into my postdoc and professorship, and just really trying to pinpoint just exactly why or how these these responses are happening. And it became a little, a little niche. But I really like it. I I yeah, it felt really fulfilling.

Lois Dankwa 

Yeah, I understand that. I love that you mentioned that like it wasn't planned. And I think about how, for myself, I've said many a times that the version of my life that I'm on is the version I didn't plan. But it's definitely the better one, whether it's like the topic I'm on, me even doing a PhD, all, all of these things weren't planned. But it's like, wait, it's really fulfilling. I'm answering a lot of the questions I had and exercising muscles I didn't even really think I had. So, I love that you mentioned that. 

Alfredo Caro 

Yeah.

Lois Dankwa 

Yeah, it's it's so cool to think about kind of the different things that shift us and all of that, and I'm curious then kind of what work you're doing now and then how does that connect to what you were doing in your PhD and all of that?

Alfredo Caro 

Yeah, so I, you know, with the pandemic, we all kind of had to respond, and maybe pivot a little bit. So, I ended up pivoting pretty hard. I exited academia, because I wasn't happy where I was and joined an agricultural biotech. And this is a startup company here in Charlottesville, Virginia, called Agrospheres, and we we started their protein platform there, and you know my knowledge/intuition about protein and protein confirmations, and I suppose function and activity and things like that can contribute to to their efforts as we try to decide which way to go with the company. I don't really use the techniques I trained for. I don't really use exactly the topics I am, you know, a sort of a field expert on. But it all contributes to an educated answer and discussion at the company, and and I see that they value that the my workmates value that.

Lois Dankwa 

Yeah, that's such a good point. I love how you mentioned that your experience kind of you've experienced different pieces of the options that people think about when they're in a doctoral program. Which is really cool and unique. And I also love how you mentioned that it's not necessarily the specific things you are doing in your doctoral program that you're doing now, but you're able to apply them in a way that makes sense to the work you're doing. And I think that as doctoral students and candidates, it can be so easy to get caught up in, oh, my gosh! What job will I do next? In terms of like I don't know if I'm well prepared for the thing, or it being an overachiever, it feels like you have to do something that's perfect for you. And yeah, I'm curious what your kind of your thoughts on your experience?

Alfredo Caro 

Totally. I mean especially coming out of my career of life where I was, you know, preparing these proposals and and filling out my CV and you know, talking and networking with faculty all over the place. It was such a there had to be a big change for me to actually get into the interview mindset and and really search and and find good options. I would never have applied to this job if I hadn't changed my attitude about applications and interviews. I started off trying to find a job that kind of fits my profile. But then, you know, at some point 2-3 months after that exercise, I realized that you can leave the matchmaking challenge to the HR Department of wherever you're applying to right, and then they just wanna meet you, or hopefully, they'll be excited by some aspect about you, and then and then, you know, they they can make the decision of whether or not you fit in, whether you can contribute. But you know, through that exercise what was valuable for me was this like confidence building exercise, where you know you come to an interview. I bombed my first interview just majestically. It was great. I didn't. I wasn't able to share my screen so I was using my hands. It was so bad. And I really appreciate that that experience, because then, you know, just warm up to the next one and the next one, and that I recognized, I was like, oh, I've done this 1 million times in academia, right. This is the first time I do something, bomb, and then let's try again. And then, yeah, anyway, I kinda lost my train of thought. But I feel like I answered some of that.

Lois Dankwa 

Yeah, I know, it's definitely about trial and error is something that we learn in our doctoral programs. Right? Whether it's you do something and you bomb it, or you can't share screen and you panic because everyone expected slides. And now it's just your face, and I think that it's funny, because that's one of those hidden skills that we also don't realize we're gaining in our doctoral program, figuring out how to respond when something what like couldn't be predicted. And it's not even just about pivoting pathways. But I love how you mentioned that you've had to change your mindset to a apply to the role that you're in now, knowing that it didn't look exactly like what you were familiar with, but at the same time like lack of familiarity isn't a bad thing.

Alfredo Caro 

Yeah, and it was kind of surprising to see the interest that was popping up. Again, this is an agricultural company. This is a great example. They are growing, and they're, you know, expanding into new fields. Nothing about their posting, I think their job posting was about protein biochemist fresh out of college, you know. That's you know that's not me necessarily. But we got to talking and and there was excitement. And I think that's what we're looking for when we try to network and interview.

Lois Dankwa 

Yeah, and that's such a good point about I love how you mentioned that it is not your job to make yourself fit for the role. Like sometimes it's about reminding yourself who knows what can happen? And also who knows what can happen, as it relates to getting a role, and how it can be adapted for you? But then also, so often, we can get caught up in something looking perfect. But it can be made perfect because it's adapted to you, and how you are able to make a role unique. And I'm curious how you're able to make your current role unique and kind of to hear more about what you do?

Alfredo Caro 

Yeah, so I guess I should start by saying that part of the initial transition was for me to adapt, and you know they talk about the academic industry like change and whatnot. None of this seemed familiar to me. Also, that label sort of didn't really help explain what was gonna happen. It was just more inward focus, you know. How do I feel good, and how do I feel like I'm contributing best in the best way? And and so that took some time, and the company, I guess maybe because it's a startup they were very patient and and and gave me a lot of freedom to to sort of explore. I'm kind of finding my my place there now a year later, over a year later, and feeling like I can you know, when I'm when I'm feeling good and comfortable and valued and curious about the questions, that's where I contribute, that's where I perform the best as a scientist, and I think that's ultimately what they want.

Lois Dankwa 

Yeah, I. So a lot of my work, I think about teamwork and how people function in organizations and also just me as a person, I think about how whatever work I'm doing creates value and contributes to a space. So, I can identify with that a lot, and I think that I'm noticing how the doctoral process, just becoming someone with some type of doctorate degree, forces you to question that both while you're in the program, but then also in a different way, you are faced with that after the program as well. And I'm curious how yeah, how you navigated that and how like you noticed you were reminding yourself about ways to push yourself outside of your comfort zone in your program, and how that's showing up now?

Alfredo Caro 

Oh, that's a great question. I'm not sure I have a good answer for that, but I can tell you that one of the stark contrasts for me was this idea that the way I'd pushed myself in the PhD and I was kind of taught, mentored through that was to just figure it out right, and that can be a very lonely exercise. But the end result hopefully is self-sufficiency, right, where you can, patch together scientific concepts and be resourceful, but fully on your own, and evaluated as a sound concept, and then check with your peers and what not. At least that's how I felt about it, and now things are very different. I am not at the at the beginning, and at the end of any given project, and that's a little annoying and unsettling, because I'm used to something else. So, I'm getting used to that. I'm learning. I'm adapting, and and then a way I think all of these transitions, all these moments are great learning exercises, and I think maybe ultimately, that's the answer to your question. As long as I'm I feel like I'm learning something new, whether it be, you know, this social dynamic at work, or something specific about science and proteins, I get excited. 

Lois Dankwa 

Right as long as right continuing to be stimulated can like sometimes we don't have to ask for, like the most grandiose revelation for something to be serving its purpose for us. 

Alfredo Caro 

Yeah, yeah, and I think, I think, what comes with this PhD attitude of being the beginning and the end of your own thesis, and what not is that the idea of letting letting go a little bit of that control, and and maybe having that self-confidence which I think is is important to build, and sometimes Academia can forget about it. And and if you can build up on that confidence, you know that whatever happens next, you and maybe you and your team, maybe you and your company, we'll figure it out. You'll be okay. And I think that's maybe a really important lesson that I've learned recently and I think I would have liked to have learned or come out of the PhD feeling this idea that you know, as an as a Hopkins alum, I'll figure it out. I think that message somehow, somewhere, got lost for me. It would have been, I think it's totally crucial to this endeavor of finding yourself the right job or to feel right in what you do, this idea that you have what it takes, and and whatever the new setup is, you'll figure it out, cause you're you know you made it through Hopkins, so.

Lois Dankwa 

Yeah, that's really encouraging and really great advice, because it can be so easy to get wrapped up in the mess of things, whether it's the jumbled wires in your brain or just the circumstances themselves which can sometimes also just be very tricky to navigate. A tricky thing to navigate that you mentioned was that the nature of your work now is different than what you've been familiar with in the past, where you're in the middle of a lot of projects and efforts that you're doing, which means you're juggling a lot of balls, and it takes a lot of different types of mental energy and I'm curious how you navigate that and kind of what surprises you about the job that you're doing now?

Alfredo Caro 

So honestly, I guess my answer was going to listen, if you can juggle being a parent and having a science job, I think, like, what else can there be, right? Like you’re, or at least I feel, and a shout out to the parents out there, but I feel like the schedule is, you know what we pray to every morning, and and if we can handle that, you know a surprise thing at work we can probably manage, too. And if we can't, I think, for on my I'll speak for myself if if I run into some challenge that I feel is overwhelming or really disrupting of I guess the schedule but like if my regular day to day, and everything that matters to me then that's a different kind of flag, right? And then maybe it may be time to think of an alternative. The the beauty of of the biomedical fields is that it is so active, and there are so many companies looking for talent. And you know I I feel confident today that if I had to go engage people around the field, I think also I have a network of friends who could help. I feel like I would be, I would land on my feet, and then at that point you you keep trying until the fit is good. I again, I feel like I just got lucky, but I'm thankful for the company and my and our relate, and my relationship to it. They make room for for managing a lot of stuff that's happening. Okay, and then on on the company side. Sorry you got me going. On the company side, I've found that it's actually pretty relaxed compared to the PhD in terms of like deadlines and things like that. I know it again emphasize that if you're doing a PhD these things, these challenges may seem familiar, or even sometimes easier, manageable, at least, how about that.

Lois Dankwa 

Yeah, I understand that. It's right, it's about making sure that you're the different pieces in your situation are good for you, even though they may not be good for everyone else. And I just have I have 2 more questions for you if that's okay.

Alfredo Caro 

Of course.

Lois Dankwa 

And you mentioned that you mentioned kind of your network of friends, and I'm curious about the role of community in what's got or community your community, whatever that means to you, how that's helped support you to get you to the moment that you're in now?

Alfredo Caro 

Yeah, that's a great question. And I have lots of thoughts and feelings about that. I think there are components, 2 big components to it. One is sort of this, you know, networking and getting getting connected, and that, you know, feels more like a LinkedIn thing. Or you know, you can quickly email through and that's enough. And maybe you got that interview. Maybe you got that conversation going. But also important is sort of the support network aspect of the network, and so I'm really thankful that I came out of the academic experience having preserved connections with with people who are now faculty, most of them, if they're not in awesome companies up in Boston mostly, and and they're inspiring, right? But they they're also there to to listen and to support and they may not be familiar with your my exact situation and whatnot, but they're there today, and they'll be there tomorrow, and the next day. And so, I get to reach out to them and kind of if I'm having a hard day, or are we kind of clench my teeth and and see that through. And then on the other side, come out and and re-energize, ready to to face down the challenge. And you know, at the end of the day the challenge is yours and this self-confidence exercise will let you realize that you got the tools you need. I have the tools I need to face it down. I don't need someone to hand me a job or fix the problem for me, but rather to just be there to support throughout.

Lois Dankwa 

Yeah, I love that. Just remembering that your community can serve a lot of different purposes. Sometimes it's someone you can listen to someone. Sometimes there's someone, or there people that can refer you to something or expose you to something you didn't know about. So, I've been encouraged by a lot of the things that you've talked about today. And I'm curious what inspires you right now?

Alfredo Caro 

Yeah, I thought about this question a lot, because I knew it was it was part of the interview process. I think. I think I get really inspired by watching people be themselves, and and I wanna just support that and have that succeed in the environment and have in whatever ways I can. I think the concept of mentorship which has been is a hot topic of debate now in the sciences deserves the attention, and I think an important part of that mentorship, especially for a PhD-type process is to help the individual flourish as themselves, right. So, I get inspired when I see people just be their weird self and kick-ass. Sorry language. And and do some awesome science, because that's what I'm into, but also just, you know, be an awesome community member, family person, co-worker, bring in that energy. And I get inspired by that. Even today, at work, when I go to work, I like seeing people bring their uniqueness right to the room, and when they, when you see them, feel good, when I see them feel good, I yeah, we play off of that each other in that way, and I think it serves a bigger purpose as well.

Lois Dankwa 

I love that. Be your weird self. And with that it helps form community. That's a great place to end, and Alfredo I'm so grateful for your words, your time. And yeah, thanks for joining today.

Alfredo Caro 

Thank you Lois for all the great questions.