Dr. Jiajun Wen, ScD in Epidemiology | Senior Equity Research Associate at Jefferies

In this episode, we discuss what drew Jiajun to the investment banking world after completing his doctorate in Epidemiology, what his day-to-day work looks like researching publicly traded biotech companies at Jefferies, and his take on the importance of gaining a big-picture understanding of your field and being able to simply and effectively explain your research for transitioning from academia into industry.

Hosted by Brooklyn Arroyo

To connect with Jiajun and to learn more about his story, visit his page on the PHutures #100AlumniVoices Project website.

Transcript

Brooklyn Arroyo

Hello I'm co-host Brooklyn Arroyo and this is 100 Alumni Voices podcast, stories that inspire, where we explore the personal and professional journeys of a diverse group of 100 doctoral alumni from Johns Hopkins University. Today we're joined by Jiajun Wen, ScD in epidemiology. Welcome to the PHutures Podcast. How are you today?

Jiajun Wen

Excellent, excellent. I'm doing well and thank you for having me. It's honor to be here.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Yes, of course. So just to introduce yourself, what did going into epidemiology look like for you and and how did you go about going into that study?

Jiajun Wen

Yeah, good question. So, I was a trained medical doctor in China and always wanted to do something different. And I was particularly interested in clinical research, and I was at that time, you know, just explore what what are the options for me. And there there's a program in epidemiology at Hopkins where the focus in clinical trials and evidence statuses. So, I think that that would be a great fit for me. And I actually decided to pursue my, my, my doctorate of science in epidemiology at Hopkins.

Brooklyn Arroyo

OK, so was it always something that you knew? Was science always something that you were inclined to study throughout school and education? Did it sort of come out in your older years?

Jiajun Wen

I think it all went back to my undergrad, since I did my medical degree there and you know, I was always interested in, you know, how those medical practice is kind of formed and you know, and also, I think a big part of it is that you know to develop a drug, you actually need a lot of work behind the scenes, including running a lot of clinical research. So, at that time, I wasn't particularly interested in basic science because I thought it was kind of distance to where I want to be, but I'm more inclined to do clinical research and that's why I actually chose Hopkins as a starting point and where I did my doctoral degree in epidemiology, which is much closer to where I want to be.

Brooklyn Arroyo

So now within the work that you're doing, what does sort of the day-to-day look like? What is did you maintain that focus of clinical research? What does that look like for you?

Jiajun Wen

So, I I think you know I I can't just talk about my day-to-day without without speak to without speaking to, you know, the essence of the job that I'm doing right now. So just let me give give give just a little bit introduction to my job. I'm actually an equity research analyst at an investment banking firm, which is called Jefferies. And basically, the essence of the work is to do research on the publicly traded biotechnology companies, which means they are traded on the New York Stock Exchange or NASDAQ or whatever Stock Exchange across the globe. So, the clients we serve are the fund managers from the buy side who actually put their money to invest in those companies and they want to understand what's going on with the with that company particularly with regard to the pipeline with regard to, you know the the the drugs that they are making. They want to understand the mechanism of action and how the drug actually behaves in Phase one study, in phase two studies, and in phase three studies, etc. And what's the commercial outlook for for for the product. So that said, I would describe my day-to-day to be basically you follow the the news of the industry, you gotta keep track of all the updates of the clinical studies. You gotta keep yourself updated with all the new mechanism of actions and you know basically and and you know I will say 60% is about research or science and then 30% about financials, right. Sometimes you will work with those numbers and then maybe another 10% for you know, a lot of other nitty gritties about about, about the company, like what the management looks like and what's the history of the company, and there there are other, you know, lands, you know how how does the landscape look like something like that. So so back to my day-to-day, I think you know how how does my day look like basically the I usually start work between 6:30 to to 7 because that's that's when the first batches of news come come out every morning before the market market open. And then you know, if there's some news coming out, for example, if today is the day a company is going to read out its phase three study in for for anti VEGF injection for a wet AMD, then I want to look at how the data looks like compared to other competitors in that field, right. And then I will, you know, do my analysis you know in terms of either how the drug looks in the phase three studies, how the efficacy compares to other drugs, how the safety looks, you know there are a lot of moving parts around it. And then I talk to the the investors, the fund managers in the morning. Usually, we schedule calls with the company too, just to better understand, you know, what's what's in the data and and whatnot. And then in the afternoon I will say I will spend more work in my long-term projects like Deep Dive of a disease or deep dive of a of a particular therapeutic area or or or a particular mechanism of action, etc. So, I will read some research papers and talk to my colleagues and sometimes we'll also host doctors or even scientists to discuss the most recent development in the in the biotechnology sector and then, you know, at 4:00 PM when the market actually is closed, then there are some, some other news. There could be some news coming out and and we're we're prepared for the market closed news as well. So typically, I work maybe 7 to you know, 7 in the evening. It's like 12, 11 to 12 hours. But you know it's it's it's it's more fragmental. You know you sometimes do some work in the morning and sometimes in the afternoon and and you have to mix your long-term plans into short term tasks as well.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Well, wow. So, do feel that the work you did within your within your PhD and within your academic experience helped you with the sort of work that you're doing now? Do you feel that it fell short in any way and whether any possible challenges have been within your career?

Jiajun Wen

Yeah, I think that's a very interesting question because I actually felt the same way when I interviewed for this job because I felt, you know, I'm a PhD so I must be overqualified for, for, for for this job. But actually, I find out I I was probably under qualified a little bit at the beginning because yeah, I know. Because I think so. So, for us PhD candidates or PhD students, we are too focused in one area and we lost the we usually lose the big picture, right? And to really, you know, do this job, and I would say maybe it applies to other jobs in the industry as well, you have to have a pretty good big picture understanding of what's going on there. So, you can't just say, hey, I'm you know, I I I published 10 articles on the same topic and it's and I'm the expert for for for this project. But you know you have to be able to speak to what's going on, you know, what do people care about outside of your own comfort zone? So, at the beginning I feel like I I left the understanding of the entire, you know, biotech space because there are literally too many things going on at the same time. You know, there are a lot of new technologies which are not on the textbook. Even you know they are not taught at Hopkins because they're just too new. And it's not like you feel comfortable about knowing your own space, but also you have to know about how other people are doing something that's very similar. So, for example, if a drug treats breast cancer, then you have to know about the whole treatment paradigm. And also, how the other you know the other treatment that fits in the same treatment paradigm would do and and why physicians actually pick one over the over another. So, I think I think back to the the first point that that I made, I I think you know it's it's a little bit different but but as a PhD think everyone every PhD should be able to understand or have a you know, well-educated well, or have or they can be educated pretty, pretty rapidly about, you know, the the big, the big picture. So yeah, I don't think that's a big issue for PhDs, but I think that that there there is a gap between academia and the industry.

Brooklyn Arroyo

So, you did step away from academia. You went more into the industry pathway. And so did did you consciously decide to step away from academia? Was it just something that you weren't really wanting to be involved in anymore? Was there any special reasoning behind that? Or did it just sort of happen with what you were interested in and and you getting this job?

Jiajun Wen

Yeah, great. So, I would say, you know, my plan was to go into industry. It's not a a question of if or, I would say rather it was a question of what. So, like I said before, at the beginning I was thinking about doing clinical research and I did have, I did have a few internships during my PhD training in, in, in some pharmaceutical companies. But but eventually I felt, you know, over time I think you know the the that sometimes I feel that the the development or research research and development job is too focused. And I really want to have a, you know, a a more broad understanding of what's going on and how how, you know, the technology is relevant to the, to the business side and how eventually those technologies can be translated to something that patients can benefit from. So, I guess the the answer, the short answer is that, you know, industry was my plan at the beginning and then you know, but what you really want to do actually, you know, it takes time to for you to find out what you really want to do eventually.

Brooklyn Arroyo

So, what advice would you have? Because I do think that you have you're speaking on really important things for those who are currently in academia, who maybe are hoping and planning to step into industry, whether that's in epidemiology or in other fields, and what advice would you have for those who really know that they want to be in industry rather than academia sort of like what you were your experience was?

Jiajun Wen

Yeah, I think that's a fantastic question. So, I think for me there are many things that I learned over time and I think one of the most important things is that before you decide what you want to do, really just think about what you don't want to do and what kind of lifestyle you don't want to be in. I think that's that's very important because you know I when I was doing my internship in pharmaceutical companies, I felt that was not enough for me anymore. That that that was simply because I think the the path was the the the pace of the of the job was a little bit slow, and I really enjoying more intensive work and also, I felt, you know for, you know it's it's kind of like if you work on a on a road for too long then you get kind of tunnel vision and you just look forward into and you just look into something that's very detailed and focused. Which can be a good thing, but I feel that that's not for me. I think that that, that that's one lesson that I learned. And the other thing is that. So, the the, the other thing I feel is that. So, I've seen a lot of examples where, you know, a student or PhD has a very deep knowledge of his, his or her own field but but not able to explain it to a layperson. I think that's a very important skill that we don't learn just by talking to your professors, because they are all experts in their own field and you know, I I think if you can't break down things , can't breakdown something that's ambiguous or complicated to something that's that's more understandable and easy to access to your average person, then it might cause some you know it then it might cause the the conversation to be very distant and even something and even sometimes, you know, people feel, you know you're you're talking very condescendingly to them, although it was not the intention. So, I think it's important to develop the skill to to kind of make things more well, to make things easier to understand, for for something that's already very complicated.

Brooklyn Arroyo

You know, I think that you, I I I'm really intrigued by the points that you're making about how oftentimes we can be stuck or as you said, tunnel visioned into what we're studying and there's importance to diversifying the things that we know about. Even though becoming an expert in our field is important in its own right. But becoming more equipped to understand a variety of different subject areas is is also super important. So, what experiences have you had have you had in terms of mentorship opportunities and and how do you go about diversifying your level of expertise so that you can exist in more areas rather than just one hyper specific area?

Jiajun Wen

I think in terms of mentorship, mentorship or or others, I think before before we talk about mentorship, I think one important thing is that, well, I I I I I strongly believe right every PhD should have that have that characteristic, which is that we keep our curiosity of many things. So, I think just to keep you know, just to keep that curiosity and and just go out of your comfort zone. I would say that that's that's the one thing that I would recommend. But on the on the opposite side, I think sometimes I also see people who might be too obsessed with the idea that I need to do fancy things and put them on the resume, which I don't think is, you know, a very efficient use of your time, because sometimes I believe a lack of focus is even a bigger enemy, which not only wastes your time, but also gives you a false feeling that you are able to handle a lot of different things where in fact you you might be, you know, an expert of none. So, I think you know, back to my first point, I think curiosity and keep which will keep you have a broad interest of many things, but also you know just try to keep you focused on something that you're really interested in. I think in terms of mentorship, I used to talk to a lot of friends at Hopkins and they're really great persons and they actually, I was before I took my current role actually was kind of like I wanted to be like them and they they are, you know, some of my friends are doing consulting work right now. And they they do have a a broader understanding of how things work than I did back then, and, you know, I used to learn from them. I used to talk to them about, you know, interesting objects, you know, including the new technologies going on and how how commercially viable our project will be, for example, and also you know around business. So, I will say find someone who has a similar interest to you and also but but just, you know, you you you don't want to find someone who who is exactly someone like you, right? You have to find someone who is a little bit different, but you're you're kind of aligned with each other on the on the overall career goals.

Brooklyn Arroyo

And I think that you're speaking on a really important point that a lot of people can lose track of, but a lot of people do keep in mind when in academia constantly being a learner and always striving to to maintain that curiosity, like you were saying, which I think is extremely inspiring for me as an academic and and so thank you for bringing that to light. And so, sort of the grand finale and you've led us into that is the final question of each one of these interviews, and that is what inspires you right now?

Jiajun Wen

Yeah, so great question. I think we have talked a lot about the interesting aspects of of my job, including who we talked to and what analysis we do and but I think the, it's really the impact of this job which really inspires me. I'll just give 2 examples. The first example is that once we did a deep dive analysis on a company that makes a pill for cystic fibrosis patients. So those patients die before their 40s or 50s because they they lose their lung function, right and it and it is a genetic disease. So, the the the company actually manufactures a pill that basically improves their lung function and and then prolonged the life of those patients. So, when we wrapped up the the deep dive analysis, we have to go through a lot of you know internal control process. Basically, we need to be responsible for when we write our report. So, the report was assigned to one of our internal control officer within the firm. She reviewed the the slide deck right, and she wrote back to us, wrote back to us personally and saying my my daughter is on the on this drug and and she she's doing very well since 15 years old. So, I she she thinks it was the best drug that she ever she she has ever seen. And she's very grateful of of this company and and of the work that we did. So, after seeing that e-mail, I was very touched by the message. And I can totally picture in my mind you know how a mother of a of a sick daughter actually appreciate our work and appreciate what the company does and appreciate you know how how the business can be supported by, you know, the Wall Street investors. And the other example is that at the last ASCO meeting or the Society of Clinical Oncology meeting last year, there's a company there, is that well, everybody should know the company, AstraZeneca. Did they actually put up pretty big study results, right? They had a study results from one of their breast cancer study phase three breast cancer study which compares their new antibody drug conjugate to the current standard of care. And that drug actually can double the time some breast cancer patients can live without tumor, without tumor recurrence. So, I was watching the plenary session live and I saw it was only a 15-minute presentation and there were 5000 doctors in that ballroom and after the presentation, all the doctors stood up and gave the investigator a standing ovation. So, I was touched by the scene as well because you know the drug can change a life change the life of a of a breast cancer patient. And we know that you know that it's it's also helped partially by the funding from the industry by the funding from the investors. So, I think ultimately, I gave these two examples just to just to speak to the essence of of what what inspires me. And I think that's what, you know, I remember that there, there, there is a slogan from the Hopkins Business School, which I believe is business with humanity in mind. And I think that's the most important thing. And that's what inspires me.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Well, yes, that's everything that you're describing, all the work that you're doing is extremely inspiring. And I I just applaud all the work you're doing. It is extremely important and impactful, so thank you for coming to the PHutures Podcast and and speaking with me today.

Jiajun Wen

Thank you. Of course, of course. It's my pleasure too.