Dr. Gina Greenidge, PhD in Materials Science & Engineering | Higher Research Scientist at National Physical Laboratory

In this episode, we discuss Gina’s path to pursing a PhD in materials science and engineering, her advice for remaining flexible, establishing a strong support system, and trusting in yourself when making decisions about your career path, and her work as a research scientist specializing in mass spectrometry imaging at the UK National Physical Laboratory.

Hosted by Lois Dankwa

To connect with Gina and to learn more about her story, visit her page on the PHutures #100AlumniVoices Project website.

Transcript

Lois Dankwa

Hi, I'm co-host Lois Dankwa and this is the 100 Alumni Voices Podcast, stories that inspire, where we explore the personal and professional journeys of a diverse group of 100 doctoral alumni from Johns Hopkins University. Today we're joined by Gina Greenidge, PhD in material science and engineering and current higher research scientist at National Physical Laboratory. Hi, Gina.

Gina Greenidge

Hi Lois, how are you?

Lois Dankwa

I'm good. How are you today?

Gina Greenidge

I'm well, thank you.

Lois Dankwa

Well, I'm glad you're here. I'm excited to hear a little about you and I want to first start by just hearing about kind of what made you want to pursue a PhD in material science and engineering and also just a little more about your graduate work in general.

Gina Greenidge

I feel like a PhD in material science and engineering sort of choose me. I did chemistry as an undergrad and it had a more materials focus. And then I did a masters at Howard University as well, the same place I did my undergrad. It was also very materials focused, so I decided to pursue a PhD in materials so, I can get a more fundamental understanding of the work I was doing. And the work in my masters was carbon based on carbon-based materials and characterization and use for environmental purposes. And then in my PhD work, I continued on that theme and I studied different ways to manipulate carbon materials via the use of metals. Also, for some environmental implications.

Lois Dankwa

That's really cool. I love that you mentioned that the doctoral program kind of chose you because that's definitely how I feel as well. I certainly wasn't someone who from childhood set out to get a PhD in health policy and management, for example, but it's. I'm curious then, since that was your experience as well, what was it like while you were in your doctoral program in terms of what you saw yourself doing afterwards, since you were kind of following the path as it made sense in the moment?

Gina Greenidge

Right. So, when I started my PhD at Hopkins, I was very open to what I would do afterwards. So, I used the time to sort of investigate what I thought being a teacher might be or professor might be. I asked people who were in industry and talked to them. Some people went into consulting, technical Consulting, spoke with people who did that and I ended up working at a national lab in the UK, and this felt like the right fit for me at the time when I was pursuing job opportunities after my PhD. So, I've always been very flexible with where this path would lead me, and so far, it's worked out OK.

Lois Dankwa

I love that with your flexibility you chose to then explore what it sounds like a lot of them or many of the options you had, and I'm curious, I think that that can certainly be something a lot of doctoral students and candidates are thinking is the route that they'll take as well and I see that coming with both its benefits because you get to learn from a lot of people, but also a challenge because you're learning from a lot of different people. So, kind of how did you manage all of the different inputs you were taking in? And how were you able to go, OK, well, this like, how do you realize that it makes sense for you what direction to go in next?

Gina Greenidge

Yeah, I think that's a really good question. I think throughout my entire life and throughout my academic career, I've always had a very good safety net through my mentorship, my network, my family. So, I was always able to take some measured risks and through those measured risks I decided, well, I learned how to build up some trust in myself. So, when I hear advice that apply specifically to me, I can kind of filter out what is specific specifically good that would apply to me versus just some vague generic advice that everyone should be taking on board. So, I do believe I have some trust in myself. And what advice I can take on that would be useful for me in particular.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, that makes sense. So, I'd love to hear more then you talked about the various supports that you've been able to lean on both just throughout your doctorate program, but it sounds like in general. I'd love to hear a little bit about how them your just hear more about your those support systems, whether it's your mentors or just your family, community at large, like how has that helped you through doctoral studies and the moment that you're in now?

Gina Greenidge

Ohh it's helped tremendously. I don't think. I think would be very, very difficult to get a PhD, get an engineering PhD on your own. It takes a village. I have my family. Have been very supportive. I went to Howard and the lab there have been supportive from my time there, to my time now. You know, I had people who helped when I was moving to the UK, who came over and helped me do things. Even though I left Howard many years ago, my PhD advisor, Junior Earl Barker was incredible. My boss here at NPL is also very supportive. I've always managed to. I'm very lucky. I've always managed to have a lot of people in my corner.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, I certainly understand that and it it's beautiful how the relationships, even though they were in the past, are able to carry you into the next moment, but then also they show up again.

Gina Greenidge

Yeah. No, they've never left.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, which is always. It's right. You're collecting people along the way. Not just one stop situation. 

Gina Greenidge

Absolutely. 

Lois Dankwa

I'm curious then I'm thinking about kind of when you were in a moment where closer to the end of your doctoral studies just thinking about possible opportunities you might be in, knowing that there's one version of you, but then you would exist differently in different settings, like how do you communicate yourself in a way that makes sense knowing that like different roles are looking for different people. Does that make sense?

Gina Greenidge

Yes, it does make sense. So, I applied for a variety of jobs and they were either industry-based or the national lab-based and they're all slightly different roles. And I think I leveraged my diverse scientific background. I have a degree in chemistry, an undergrad degree in biology and and material science. So, I was able to draw upon those experiences scientifically. But in general, a lot of these technical jobs are looking for very similar things, which is that you have an ability to problem solve. You have an ability to follow through on your research plans, you have an ability to communicate your science effectively, and all of those things are sort of the the through line for all of the positions. So, you don't have to change too much, only just sort of the the technical side that they're interested in.

Lois Dankwa

That's such a good point, because I can I can see something like that, that being not knowing how to market yourself for different sectors or environments, being like a big anxiety point for people. But it's a good it's a good thing that you highlight that like they're looking for similar things and it's about remembering that overall, you do have the methods or topical expertise they're looking for.

Gina Greenidge

Yes. And I think having a PhD means you know how to learn as well, which I think is also very valuable in any job you go into. You’re never going to be a perfect fit. So, if you can show that you are willing and able to learn quickly, then I also think that's very valuable to any position you apply to.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, that's a good point. So, I'd love to hear about kind of hear more about the things that you learned in your doctoral program that you continue to see show up in the work that you're doing now where it's maybe it's a day-to-day activity or it's like a process or something that like, how do you see it translate now into what you're doing as a working professional?

Gina Greenidge

Right. I think the the resilience which I'm sure you know about doing a PhD is very difficult and there are lots of challenging moments and there will be lots of challenging moments in your career life and in your job, but you struggle through it and you take it on and you persevere. And I think that's one of the the major takeaways after my PhD. Also, how to read and understand scientific literature, things like that, communicating science well, writing, fostering collaborations is very important in science as well. These are all things that they don't change much from the time you do your PhD through the time I for the transition into this this role.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, that's good to hear that you're able to draw very directly on to from your experiences. I'm curious, you mentioned you mentioned mentors earlier, and I'm curious like if there's any standout advice that you've received from mentors that it's something that you continue to go back to?

Gina Greenidge

That's a good question. I did think about this and I think in terms of impostor syndrome, I've had someone who is very high up in a very large technical company say who has multiple publications and patents, he sometimes he walks into a room and he's unsure of what he's if what he's saying is correct and how he'll be perceived. And he says that never goes away. So, you know, don't stress too much if it happens once in a while. It's OK, it's normal. 

Lois Dankwa

That's ohh. That's a such a good point to hear, right, because I think that from any perspective, you don't view yourself as the person that's the top of the field, so 

Gina Greenidge

Expert. 

Lois Dankwa

Right, exactly.

Gina Greenidge

It's very strange to consider yourself an expert.

Lois Dankwa

So, when our experts are like ohh, I still feel like a novice, I get nervous that.

Gina Greenidge

Yeah, I feel uncertain.

Lois Dankwa

Right. It's very reassuring, which is nice.

Gina Greenidge

It is.

Lois Dankwa

I've also I've received some advice that's it was just like be kind to yourself and just remember that like, you don't need to be so hard on yourself all the time knowing that it things are hard and that's OK.

Gina Greenidge

It is hard. What's some other advice you've gotten? I know this is supposed to be about me. But I'm curious.

Lois Dankwa

That's OK. Ah, that you're. You're right. It's a good question. But it's one that requires a little thinking. So be kind to yourself was certainly one and another one that sticks out to me all the time, the same person said this, don't let perfect be the enemy of good, and that's something that is helpful when you're developing a dissertation proposal, you're executing on that dissertation proposal, and even something I'm going to remind myself of later when it's having those job conversations or figuring out what job to do next same thing, yeah. So those are my standout ones, but it's it's it's interesting what things you kind of carry from the relationships that you have that have gotten you to the moment you're in knowing that you're not going to remember every single moment. But at the same time, just like how your colleagues and friends from Howard were able to help you when you moved to the UK. It's like there's something beautiful about how the relationships existed, where you're still supporting each other, 

Gina Greenidge

Yes. Absolutely, yeah.
 Lois Dankwa

So, I'd love to hear a little bit more about what you do now. Like what does your day-to-day look like and just a little more about your role.

Gina Greenidge

So, I am a research scientist and I use mass spectrometry imaging as a technique to solve a variety of problems. So, we do high resolution imaging, chemical making chemical maps of things from stainless steel to cancer samples, and my day-to-day life involves running the instrument, collecting data, doing data analysis, writing reports, attending lots of meetings, and looking into science disseminations. So, we have to give talks and presentations and thinking about strategy, how to to win grants. How to promote what we do then the organization and outside of the organization. So, it's more than just the technical part and the science part. So, you, you do have to. Well, I guess, getting money to fund your science is also part of science, which is I'm not sure if you think about very early on in your PhD career.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, that's that is such a good point that all of those steps are part of what being a researcher is or are, but you don't really think of it that way.

Gina Greenidge

Right. You know, you know, it's one thing to be like, I want to be in the lab all the time which is I love so. So, then they're. But they're all these other pieces as well that are required for you to be a good scientist, an effective scientists.

Lois Dankwa

And that's such. And those are the things that you learned from being in a doctoral program. 

Gina Greenidge

Yes.

Lois Dankwa

It's interesting because so I'm someone that was pre-Med in undergrad. So, I have my experience doing mass spectrometry. I was not good at it, which is why I'm not doing it now. But it sounds like the work that you're doing in terms of the kind of clients that you all have and the outcomes that you work to impact, it influences a lot of different sectors and fields. And I'm I'm curious then how does that? Yeah, what's your perspective on that? Like, how does that, yeah, I'd love your thoughts on like what that means or are you mainly interested in the method so you're excited to be contributing to a lot of different spaces?

Gina Greenidge

I think it's it's fun because you have to learn a variety of new things and draw upon all of my experience, all of my academic experience. It feels like none of my knowledge goes to waste, so in that sense it's exciting and the technique itself it's fairly new. They're only 60—the instrument I work on is the Nano Sims—there are only 60 instruments worldwide, so it's quite niche. So that part's really interesting as well, but you know, I’m still very much interested in work that I did in my PhD, which is the characterization of carbon materials, so the organization is pretty flexible that and they allow you to sort of pursue your own interest if you can win funding for it. So, I submitted a proposal for an internal grant and one that I could study my own project on carbon materials and using the instrument to characterize it. So, I've been do I have like doing the variety of things but I also still kind of want to do the things that I'm personally interested in, that I focused on in my PhD. So, I'm able to do both.

Lois Dankwa

That's it's nice that you have such flexibility to be able to be both a generalist and whatever the opposite of a generalist is—very specific.

Gina Greenidge

Yes, yes.

Lois Dankwa

I'm curious then, what are some of the challenges that might exist from having work that is not aggressively narrow?

Gina Greenidge

Well, it's both aggressively narrow and very broad in that you have this one instrument and I'm meant to become an expert in it and it's a very complicated instrument. So, I do spend a lot of time just thinking about how how this instrument works and how best to use it to my ability for my abilities and for the purposes that it requires. So, in that way it’s very specific. And what you actually, put into the instrument it's it doesn't necessarily change that much how you think about using the instrument. What you have to think differently about is why you're doing what you're doing and what the impact is and the the larger scientific picture, if that answers your question.

Lois Dankwa

It does and it it helps me see how there's larger applicability of what you're saying to any field, like any job that people have could not could is both very narrow and very broad, whether it's you work in health policy or food policy on a specific thing related to children, for example, but then that influences a lot of other things that influences education and XYZ, so I'm glad that you mentioned it's about thinking about how your role is a part of it, but then also what your larger impact is and what your tasks are and things like that. I'd love to hear kind of. So, I have two more questions for you and you mentioned that in science research you do, there's a lot of opportunity for collaboration. And I'm curious, then, what does collaboration look like in the type of work that you do and how does that influence your projects and workflow and all of that?

Gina Greenidge

So, because I do materials characterization, I do require collaborations because I don't have or the team doesn't have the bandwidth to do all of the sample preparation and all of the correlative techniques. So, we're usually part of a much, much larger picture. So, in order for us to be effective in solving some kind of larger problem then we need to collaborate and we need to have and for example, we work on a lot of biology samples, but we're not biologists, so we do need to have the biologists on board to figure out what our data is really saying, cause we can only do so much. So yeah, it's essential for us.

Lois Dankwa

Right. It it helps to fill in the holes. Like you're all working towards a larger picture and you recognize what you can do and then the extent of your efforts.

Gina Greenidge

Right.

Lois Dankwa

That's great. Well, as my last question, I'm curious what inspires you right now?

Gina Greenidge

Yes, that is an excellent question. I think the. I have two things that inspire me right now and one, it's my parents. It's because I've seen them work so hard my whole life. And to provide that safety blanket, I was talking about earlier that I can pursue some of these risks and some of these ideas and to pursue your PhD. And so, they do inspire me to work really hard. And I'm also inspired by the people who can live in an uncertainty and live in this liminal space with joy and with optimism instead of fear and anxiety. I really admire those people, and I aspire to be more like them.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, I I understand that. Family is very important part of my life as well. And it's like the people that remain just optimistic, full of joy just continue to remind you the ways that you too can feel like that.

Gina Greenidge

Right. Even when things are perfect you it's it's going to be alright most of the time.

Lois Dankwa

Gina, it's been so wonderful to chat with you today and hear a little bit about your perspective and just more a little about what you do.

Gina Greenidge

And what inspires you?

Lois Dankwa

What inspires me? I think that I think people inspire me. Just people in general, people’s joy, the possibilities of people, just community and just sharing and being being together and working together. For me, it's the possibilities that can be accomplished when groups of people work together. That's what inspires me. If someone asks me again, I might say a different answer.

Gina Greenidge

Of course. And so, what inspires you today?

Lois Dankwa

That's right. Today, that is what inspires me. Thank you so much, Gina.

Gina Greenidge

Thank you so much for your time, Lois.