Dr. Justin Jacob, PhD in Biochemistry & Molecular Biology | Laboratory Chief at D.C. Department of Forensic Sciences

In this episode, we discuss Justin’s doctoral work in biochemistry and molecular biology at Johns Hopkins University, the importance of his extracurricular activities and community involvement in preparing him for the workforce, and his experiences working at the FDA and the DC Department of Forensic Sciences throughout the Covid-19 pandemic and beyond.

Hosted by Brooklyn Arroyo

To connect with Justin and to learn more about his story, visit his page on the PHutures #100AlumniVoices Project website.

Transcript

Brooklyn Arroyo

Hello I'm Co-host Brooklyn Arroyo and this is 100 Alumni Voices podcast stories that inspire where we explore the personal and professional journeys of a diverse group of 100 doctoral alumni from Johns Hopkins University. Today we're joined by Justin Jacob, PhD, in Biochemistry and molecular biology. Welcome to The PHutures podcast. So, I think that it's interesting to note that this is the ribbon cutting and almost grand opening of the Imagine Center, so you are probably the first and only in person podcast. Episode for features. I think that's monumental, so before we get into anything too deep, I just want to know, tell me a bit about your graduate work with Johns Hopkins.

Justin Jacob

Yeah, so you mentioned that I was in the I did my I did my PhD in biochemistry and molecular biology at the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health specifically and. My research, you know lots of more. People, it's just, I'll say real quick. In brief, our lab, we studied a particular protein. It's an intermediate filament protein and traditionally that protein was thought to only be in function within the cytoplasm of the cell. My whole thesis was focused on figuring out whether or not that protein was actually going into the nucleus of the cell, and if it was, how is it regulated and what it may be doing their function was, so that's in a nutshell what was my research in grad schools, yeah.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Very interesting what was there something that led you to study that?

Justin Jacob

No, it was. It was just the most. Interesting lab that I did a rotation. At the time, so we at that time, first year we had a full course. We had a lot of courses that we had to take, but we also did laboratory rotations so I had. I did 5 rotations that year, and that was the most interesting because we actually I during my rotation I had pretty good preliminary evidence that we were in fact seeing this protein in the nucleus of the cell, and that got me really excited. I was like, oh, this could be really interesting. So, I presume that so it wasn't really particularly, you know it was very basic science. You know the translational part of it to human health was, you know, we don't you. Know still to be determined, but, yeah, I just I just jumped right in and it was, it was just very exciting from day one yeah, right?

Brooklyn Arroyo

So, after you earned your PhD, did you continue with academia or did you sort of step into the more business or workforce side of that study?

Justin Jacob

Yeah, so after I finished my PhD, I ended up getting an offer to be a Contractor for the Washington DC government. It is the DC public health lab and that resided in the Department of Forensic Sciences was in Washington, DC. I was trying. I think I was using that because it was. The contract was only really for a couple of months and I was trying to figure out what I wanted. To do next, whether or not. It was doing a postdoc or maybe staying in government. So eventually I basically made the decision to not, so I got a couple offers to do a postdoc at the NCI National Cancer. Institute at NIH. For person largely personal reasons and. Then it ended up working well. For me professionally, but I decided to not take the post. On offer and instead I instead continued my contract with DC government, but eventually had led to me getting full time employment as well and ultimately led me to Brian today, sorry.

Brooklyn Arroyo

So, for if you don't mind sharing those personal and professional realms of what led you to make your decision, what advice would you give to other people who are also experiencing that?

Justin Jacob

Yeah, I think for my particular case personally my wife and I at the time while we're still together. But at that time my wife and I were closing on a house. And financially would have been kind of. Difficult with the with the. Numbers that we were checking off. You know it, it would have been. Difficult at that time to if I continue with the post doc because. Those stocks prior pay around 50 or 55K a year, you know, and then, but with my current contract at that time, I was making more than that and I would. It would have been. It would have been challenging professionally. You asked about that as well. I ended up. Being in the right place at the right time, I guess for my career. Because I started at my contract position. In June of 2019 and I got promoted to be a supervisor in March of 2020. And that's right. Before you know, just before the pandemic kind of hit and I was thrown into pandemic response efforts for the District of Columbia and that really, professionally, really kind of set up a trajectory. For me that just really kind of worked out. It's kind of right place, right time I was going to. You know it's going to test the sampling sites at different hospitals. Department of Corrections, long term care facilities doing either sampling or testing on site. And it was just very involved in that for the very beginning, the very like very first nine to. 10 months it. Depends on yes. To answer your question, those are kind of the personal professional. Things that were kind of going on in my mind when I made that decision to shift away or shift away from academia. Grad school, right?

Brooklyn Arroyo

Well, having that experience right almost the peak of the pandemic and being within your well within your career, do you think that you were anywhere near prepared, so that from what you experienced in academia?

Justin Jacob

I think I was particularly prepared because I actually was involved in many things outside of like my grad school work. In addition to like my thesis work I did, I engaged a lot in like student groups and student government. So, the first you know I was kind of it was I was never really looking to be involved. Actually, when I was first starting grad school, I kind of just got someone said, hey, you want to come to a meeting? I went to. The meeting and then they were like hey Doug, do you? Are you interested in planning events for social cultural, you know social, cultural events? And I said, Yeah, that sounds interesting and that's great, you're the vice president of that. They voted it and you know. But you know from then on, I, you know, eventually became president of the Student Assembly at Johns Hopkins. School of Public health. That through all of that, and through all that experience outside of the lab, you know my thesis work. I was able to get experience with, you know, working with so. Many different groups. Of people Managing different projects at the same time. Being able to kind of work under pressure you. Know a lot of these. Skills you know that I think I would not have. Personally gotten I was just doing this lab work so yeah. So, to answer your question, I think all those experiences in addition to my graduate training in the sense of how to become a better and better scientist, you know that really helped me with hitting the ground running when. These tasks were kind of just kind of just say, hey, go, you know go leave this mobile testing unit. Basically, that was the big truck that a mobile test. There's a mobile laboratory and a like a 48-foot truck that we were matched by the CDC and we went to different places. You know different parts of the district where there are vulnerable populations, and we did on site for when if they're testing for COVID and I think you know I was able to do that I think because and not be kind of overly stressed out. I guess with that task as it was like. It was pitched to me on like you know. Day one and then Day 2 slash. Day three we're out we're out there doing the testing, you know. Making sure that we were we were maintaining quality assurance and then also managing different groups of scientists. I mean, different laboratory technician scientists. You know? Because it wasn't always the same team going out. It was different groups of the team because yeah, but I was the I was the kind of the constant element, I guess from team. Like yeah it was, I think you know I talked more than I probably should have I think, but it was, it was a lot of the experience that I got outside of the lab that really kind of. Helped me, yeah. And I've and I'll tell you the interviews that I've been on before, like after grad school. Very rarely did they ask me about like what I did during this is the most I think anyone ever asked me what I did during my thesis yeah. Exactly really did anything. Like I was just leaving grad school or when I was when I was leaving grad school to get into. That contract position. They said in 30 minutes, 30 seconds or 60 seconds tell us what you did for your thesis for that's. It you never really asked that question again. So yeah, it's they've asked that they asked about experiences, ability to work with people you know, ability to manage multiple projects, working under pressure. Lot of the this is the kind of that's a whole kind of gamut of things that they asked me. You know people. Were kind of interested in when they're viewing me. Like yeah.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Yeah, and I think that it's interesting that you point that out because I think a lot of times in academia people get stuck in like the main aspect of it and forget that it is very much network building and you know personal growth and that sort of thing. But I am interested and I think that it's important. About speaking on your work within the pandemic, in that high paced environment, were there any things that you experienced within that time that was just it was a revolutionary time for anyone, but did you develop as a professional within that space?

Justin Jacob

Yeah, I very much think so. Particularly so before the pandemic. Before I entered the you. Know the working world. I've mostly only worked in settings where I was on a lab bench very far, far kind of far removed from like the public the people, but when I was getting into that role and going to different hospitals, different testing sites, and you know that was I was on the kind of the not really the front lines, but the one right? Behind the front lines, I guess because I.

Speaker

OK.

Justin Jacob

Wasn't actually swabbing people, but. Still, you know I was up there in the. And you know, helping with the sample collection efforts you know right downstream of them doing the actual sampling. But like I've never really experienced that type of. Never had that type of experience you. Know working with. The public facing and you know it was. Probably my second or third. My first day. Of doing that I was there and you know you had all the. The National Guard was set up on this on this huge hospital back parking lot and then they had all these lines and cars. And I remember there was like 11 car that was, you know, I just happened to be at where the car was about to go in and get where the person was going to get swabbed. And I'm looking at the person and this person looks like probably around my age or so and just looked very nervous. You know, really anxious. You know, like I, you know, I never really. So that you know, because being behind a bench never really prepared me for that. But I saw that it. It looked like this person was, you know, anxious about. Do they have a positive? Will they get? A positive result. What does that mean for her short-term future? Long term future, you know it, just it kind of hit me. You know it's just one. Of those things where just haven't. Experienced that before and I won't forget that. Because that really kind of humanized really. All the stuff that I've done from you know from that from previous times to that day we guess you know. Yeah, it's hard to how hard to. Articulate I don't know, but it's. Yeah, that that's that that stayed with it. And I don't think it will go you. Know OK yeah.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Definitely even your description of that moment seems almost surreal. Just we've in movies and in media we've seen so much of the apocalypse and then. We were hit with such that reality of like. This is real. It affects a lot of people and especially in academia, like you're describing, we do get removed a little bit from that real world aspect because it's the studying and the research and that behind-the-scenes stuff, so that's really interesting. So, you work now little bit post pandemic post the height of the pandemic. How is that differing? What does that look? Like now.

Justin Jacob

So, I've kind of jumped a little bit around since I graduated, so it's like I said I started as a contractor at the DC Public Health Lab and the Department of Forensic Sciences. But about 10 months into like so I did my contract and then ten months. Then I got promoted into a supervisor and then went in about 10 months or so. I actually left the agency and I did about maybe a year and nine months at the FDA. It was a lead reviewer there. I was, you know, and I recently left the FDA end of September, so I've only I've only been in my current role for about six or seven weeks maybe, but my current role now is a from a laboratory unit sheet, specifically the clinical toxicology. At DC and went back to my former agency DC Public Health lab, and. I'm sorry I missed the question, I'm sorry can. You repeat that. Question, I'm sorry, uh, no.

Brooklyn Arroyo

It so post pandemic post high of the pandemic. What does that look like?

Justin Jacob

Yeah, so yeah. So yeah. So, coming in on the very tail end of this you know back into the former agency where you know we. It's very different. You know, we're like I'm like I'm not in like we're not deploying people into the field. You know, like I was being deployed with the mobile testing unit. You know, like it's been, it's different.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Right?

Justin Jacob

We are focusing on other efforts, you know, but my current my specifically my current role. I actually came back to the same unit just as in different capacity, different type of supervisor, I guess. But it it's different because we can focus on what we what we were, what we were you know originally doing. You know, so what we do in clinical psychology. We have two different programs. We have the R&C program which stands for the Laboratory Response Network to chemical threats. That's a that's related to kind of chemical terrorism, emergency response, type of efforts in the laboratory. So, if there is a suspected, you know if there's a suspected. Exposure we would. We would get a clinical specimen and you could, you know the urine blood. You know, touch of the matrices, but we were tested for different agents that we think that person may have been sufficiently have been exposed to that's one arm, the other arm of our work is still kind of in its infant stages, but it's drug monitoring program so part of that program is to help support efforts with another DC agency called the Department of Behavioral Health. But also, I think we are, you know, not just want to get into the details, but the point is that it it's very different. You know it's very different than my experience during those ten months on the front-end of the pandemic, you know. Being out in the field 7 to you know 7:00 AM. You're starting the day and you're probably leaving work 6-7 PM you know and also you know it was, it was kind of scary because that was pre vaccine, you know, like you know I came home immediately like went straight to the shower. You know, like clothes went straight into the laundry bin. There's no lingering, you know it, just. Yeah, you know it was just a different it was. A different time, but yeah.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Yeah, and I. I would just want to prime more at like the transition between those two. Worlds that were. Pretty drastically different. Did you have that transition period from being as you call like on the front lines for those ten months? And now being back into the more laboratory setting, did you have a transition period or? Bumps that you faced.

Justin Jacob

I think my transitioning period was really like kind of working at the FDA. So, like it's like I didn't, you know FDA. The middle part of the pandemic I was at the FDA and my transition is just different than probably many people, at least those who probably stayed in the same job, but it was different because I went from being, you know, doing working in the field on, you know, working with people nonstop and then working at the FDA where I was at home all the time, working from home and met my coworkers a handful of times. You know, you know, it's. There's a different experience. Working from home working, you know, working mostly independently. You know, reviewing, reviewing submissions. But like being I was on the Respiratory devices team there so I didn't escape COVID because we still we're reviewing files that were directly related to COVID pandemic response, public health emergency, you know.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Right?

Justin Jacob

So, the transition was just kind of. It was very different, never done that type of work before was very interesting experience. I've learned a lot. It's not a part of the. World like I've learned, I've learned a lot about. A part of the world that. I've never really thought about. Before, yeah, I was actually interested in the FDA, mainly because of the COVID or the testing that we were doing it. You know, while we were using certain in vitro diagnostic devices in the field, you know. I was like it. Would be interesting. To review those submissions for these devices, you know on the FDA side so I got to experience that, you know from a different part different side but still related to the pandemic. Yeah, and like I said, I remember a lot from that experience and then I was, you know, was approached to by this current position and the and the people that I some of the people I used to work with. They told me, hey, this position is available if you're interested and I and I said, hey, you know I'll give a shot and then we got. We were talking and that's that. Sounds really interesting. That sounds like a great opportunity for me. Very different, because going from, well work at home to now. Very rarely. Work at home. Right, it's mostly working in person again in DC in Washington, DC. Yeah, that so. I've been it. It was a lot of bouncing around, I guess. In the span of. Three years or three 3 1/2. Years since I left grad school. So, but I wouldn't change anything. I thought it was every little step brought me to where I am now.

Brooklyn Arroyo

And it's been especially for you with the different jobs and but I feel like it's just all around. Been really a lot past couple of years. A lot's been going on for everyone, so within the sort of three phases of working on the in the field within the FDA. In your current position, do you think there are any fallacies that you experienced or misconceptions that people will have in the way that they viewed your position? And what sort of?

Justin Jacob

That's a good question. You mean so from the. From the perspective. Of being at FDA or being at my agency.

Brooklyn Arroyo

I guess I guess from the from the outside perspective. Just because you were working a lot with sort of the core studies and research of the COVID-19 that virus and there was a lot of misconceptions. With you know, and public image. So, did you ever feel that people on a fallacy on what you were doing or the work that you were doing in any of those positions?

Justin Jacob

I don't. Know I think I mean, I guess it was. So, like I guess we weren't really, I don't know. Because we you know the beginning of the pandemic. We were all kind of person was scared. To hang out with. People you know what I mean because I wasn't was. I was worried that. Maybe I'd bring something you know. And get people infected or so. I wasn't really. You know, we weren't. There wasn't really like kind of hanging out and talking about things. I guess you know, maybe you're texting.

Speaker

People or whatever.

Justin Jacob

Like I know, very early on people were texting me about, you know what are my thoughts about? XYZ, you know what I mean and. You know that's kind of or like hey or some people were genuinely interested in how? We did testing like, how did that work, you know? What was that workflow like? You know, like? Yeah, but it yeah, you know, I don't. I'm not answer that question, I guess. Yeah, I, I guess I didn't have the opportunity to really discuss things, maybe with people about fallacies, because then, you know that you mentioned you know, like, yeah, I don't know.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Well, it was definitely an interesting time and we all were kind of disconnected from. Each other in society, in many ways. So, what were some of the surprises and I know that you've talked about it was a roller coaster in the different fields that you were working in. But what were some of the biggest surprises in in your jobs in the different fields of work?

Justin Jacob

Yeah, surprises. I was surprised at how. On just doing laboratory work in a mobile laboratory on a truck that vibrates. I found that physically demanding. I was very surprised like not only so one we're doing work behind, like the plexiglass like SHIELD that's on the bench, and you're working. So, it's kind of like a weird positioning with your arms and your shoulders Mm-hmm, but. But even with like the truck vibrating just even like just because, it's on, you know what I mean/ Like my knees start to. Hurt, you know, by the end of the day, so I have like ACL injury. I got 2 rotator cuff injuries but I just felt like it was just amplifying it because of the just by just physically working. You know in that type of environment that type of space. UM? That was definitely that was definitely a challenge. And then you know the. Next, you do that. One day the next thing. You're back at it, you know, but I. You know I was resilient. Bounced back, you know I was able to do the work, but other types of challenges like I guess overall my workload has been pretty high because. Because of, like partially, you know, largely because of pandemic, right? So both jobs that I had. Beginning in in Natal pandemic, where. You know there were. We were still getting stuff related to the pandemic. In addition to the normal stuff that we would have to do. That's part of our job that you know is our real job description you. Yeah, it was, it was a challenging time, but I thought it was fantastic. Well, that's the only way to say it. That's from my personal or professional experience I thought it was. It was great in the sense that, like I was I was able to do things and really kind of really challenge myself, but also challenge and empower the people that were working with me. You know we were, we were solving problems together, you know and we were, we were helping people, as I said, like vulnerable populations get results within what? 30? 15? 30 minutes and you know, like really quickly. Especially if they were even positive and that you know that that was. That was very. Meaningful, actually. This reminds me actually one time we had a we were at a I think it was like a long-term care facility or a nursing home, I can't remember exactly. I can't remember exactly, but I remember when we were giving the results to like the staff there either the nurses or the physicians like we were giving the results and they're like oh, this person's negative and they like you know they're so excited, you know. Or like you know, and I remember like. As I guess people are kind of. Being released from quarantine, I don't remember like I don't know exactly the details because we weren't really involved in that, but I remember like the hospital staff was just cheering, you know, yeah, so I thought that was pretty that that then. I remember walking. Away, while I heard like a cheering or whatever, and I was I had a big smile on my face. No one saw it was just me walking the opposite direction and it just was a really. Good feeling yeah so.

Brooklyn Arroyo

That is, it's super exciting, and for any young scientists or scholars listening to the podcast, what advice would you have for them and mentorship that you could pass on to them through this?

Justin Jacob

They can contact me if they want. Feel free to contact me. I love talking to people about this kind of stuff and you know, like. The other you know, advice for junior scientists, so I didn't. You know, I didn't know when I when I started grad school, I didn't really know what I wanted. To do after grad school I said maybe government. Probably not academia. You know, then maybe middle of grad school and like, OK, maybe academia, but not research lab. Like I teach in academia. And then I went towards the end. I was like this is a lot of fun. Maybe I want to do a research lab instead. You know, after I leave, you know after I leave grad school and I've just changed, I guess. And that's OK. I think that's something that you know. You know, maybe people who. Are at that same point in the professional academic, you know career or stage. You know. I think it's OK to, you know maybe loosely have a plan. And don't be worried you know. They don't be worried about. I guess where you may end up, it's just focus on like the environment of training the environment of being and bettering yourself as a scientist. I also strongly encourage people to not just do that science if you feel comfortable. Of course, you know maybe there's a student group, maybe student government, maybe something outside. You know that that might help build other parts of your, first, you know your portfolio. You know that can be very helpful later on. You know, like the question is. Like I said, the question that I was personally asked in interviews not about what I didn't ask, at least not about, you know. Not about my thesis work. It was, you know, it's like. Oh yeah, we noticed that you were, you know you were in this position with leadership. Tell us about that. Ohh, I'd led a group of maybe 40 to 50 people a team, soon assembly, you know? Then and talk about that experience and how I was able to manage the work of eight—there's eight different committees you know, and just being able to balance different things without being too overwhelmed. You know, working with people at all levels of the university, you know the school, and sometimes University of Hopkins as a whole but you know that's the best thing that would probably say is, you know. Really you can, I guess. Don't you know focus on just the parts that you know. Like you could really get beaten down in grad school, they're definitely, they're definitely. I had very, you know, a very tough time at the very beginning, especially in grad school. And I thought. I might quit, you know, and end up sticking into sticking with it and. He ended up working for me, but you know, I know I. I definitely appreciate that. People have those moments. I had those moments, you know, and it's it was it was challenging. I think once you get through it, it'll work out. You know it's like it's and it you know it, yeah, it's tough want to talk about. Talking about grad school is really tough because. People have different experiences my wife had. A completely different. Like experience in the sense that you know she went in thinking she wanted to do academia and that kind of changed, you know, and you know it's was just different, but for her it wasn't. I wouldn't say it was bad, it was more like just a different thing like I enjoyed really enjoyed what I was doing and for her it's like I was just like I think I want to find a different. You know, like I don't. Want to stand up getting? Me so people can have very different. You know different experiences and that's why it's kind of hard to give advice, but I think when you know after grad school. I think if you can, do stuff outside of the laboratory. Maybe some PI's may not like me saying this. Sorry PI's but if you get involved in other thing else that side of your thesis work, I think you can really help bolster your professional development personal development because it really did something.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Definitely yeah yeah. And there is no one right path so.

Justin Jacob

I mean, I'm still. Like I'm I left grad school, I've had three different you know positions.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Right?

Justin Jacob

Technically, you know, and I'm still kind of figured things out, but I just like to be here, you know, simulated intellectually and I just like, you know, working with people, and you know, and you know, I maybe I'll be here. Maybe I'll be here. Still three to five years’ time, you know, and still doing the work, but. You know, as long as I just like to be just. Intellectually, you know. Simulate and I've and I've definitely had that in three different positions that I've had since grad school. And I'm excited where I am now excited. Yeah, I'm just excited to be where I am now so.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Well, I'm excited that I was. Able to interview. You today so one final question that we're asking all of our interviewees is just. What inspires you right now?

Justin Jacob

I've touched upon a couple of that, you know, like when it comes to mentorship. When it comes to being intellectually stimulated by like it's. It's just I'm very. Very passionate about kind of solving problems, especially if it involves like applying like the scientific method. You know, even if it's. Not, you know. Just you know, or like just having kind of. Hypothesis driven type of. Problem solving you know, and I enjoy that and. It's very. It's like it's very. Methodical, you know it's and. I that kind of stuff, really. Excites me and inspires. Me, you know? And I like to kind of have that stuff I like to, you know. You know, hopefully impart that on people because. That part of my whole part of another thing that I really love doing is mentorship, right? I just want to get people excited about what excites me. And then you know, and also be. You know and also. Get excited about what excites them, you know. And then maybe we can make things work in a way that we can, you know. Help each other grow. And because we have different experiences, you know, different experiences and different interests you know, like. It's like you know those are, that's a hard question to answer. I guess that last one. But I think. That would be my working answer, yeah.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Well, it was a great answer. I think that you've definitely spread the excitement today. So, thank you, and I appreciate you working with all the noise, the background, the photos. But it was great to have an in-person interview.

Justin Jacob

Yeah, I agree I love, I love the in-person experience. It's you, really. I think it was it's you know you take it for granted before you know before you work from home all the time and you didn't, didn't appreciate the power of an in-person meeting. You know, yeah, so no.

Brooklyn Arroyo

Right?

Justin Jacob

Thanks for having me. I appreciate you appreciate you. You know having me on the show, thank you.