Dr. Ian Tolfree, PhD in Physics | CEO at TBT Pharma and Principal at Emerald Development Managers

In this episode, we discuss Ian’s circuitous path from his PhD in physics to a career as an entrepreneur and venture capitalist, how forming professional relationships spearheaded his career trajectory, and the importance of knowing yourself and stepping outside of your comfort zone.

Hosted by Lois Dankwa

To connect with Ian and to learn more about his story, visit his page on the PHutures #100AlumniVoices Project website.

Transcript

Lois Dankwa

Hi I'm cohost Lois Dankwa and this is the 100 alumni voices podcast, stories that inspire, where we explore the personal and professional journeys of a diverse group of 100 doctoral alumni from Johns Hopkins University. Today we're joined by Ian Tolfree, PhD in physics and current entrepreneur in residence at Emerald Development Managers and CEO at TBT Pharma. Hey, there, Ian How are you today?

Ian Tolfree

I’m good. 

Lois Dankwa

So, I’m excited to dive in and learn a little bit about you, and really the career trajectory and experiences that got you to this moment. So, can you start by telling me a little bit more about yourself? Why you chose to pursue a PhD in physics, and also just your graduate work at Hopkins?

Ian Tolfree

Yeah. So, I wanted to get a PhD Physics for 2 reasons. One, when I was 8 years old, I read a book by a physicist who said he got paid to think. He spent half his year on safari and half his year thinking about what he thought about on safari, and arguing with his students. Wow! That'd be a great career. The second reason was it was the hardest thing I could think of.

Lois Dankwa

That's funny, and it's so funny how kind of our childhood really influences a lot of our conception of jobs and stuff, and I love that you've mentioned when you were 8, you were like I don't know this seems like it's something for me. It makes me wonder kind of how those dreams and things that excited you from your childhood maybe influenced what you were thinking your career path would be while you were doing your PhD.

Ian Tolfree

While I was doing my PhD I thought I was going to be an academic. I didn't realize that the type of physics I picked to do, theoretical physics I was in string theory, there weren’t really a lot of jobs outside of Academia. There weren't a lot of jobs in academia. I was largely a pendant paper and mathematician, and no one throughout my educational process actually sat down and had a discussion after you got your PhD, and so I ended up graduating into the economic crisis of 2009 finding myself relatively useless to supply a better phrase because I didn't really have any skills, or at least obvious skills, that were marketable outside of academia.

Lois Dankwa

Oh, my goodness, there's a couple of things that are really sticking out to me. So, the first thing being you mentioned that you were a string—I so I think I’m gonna mess this up because it's opposite from my field. I'm a health policy and management person, but you did kind of string theory right in physics?

Ian Tolfree

Yeah. I studied rotating black holes and universes shaped like horse saddles, wonderful mathematical formulas around that.

Lois Dankwa 

That's really neat. So, you did that, and in on one end there wasn't really a market for you in Academia. But then also because of when you graduated, there maybe wasn't even a market for many people. So, I’m curious where kind of how that influenced the first role that you did after your PhD, in really how you made the decision to pick something like that, since there was so much that was out of your control.

Ian Tolfree

The short answer was necessity. I had had kids early on in grad school. I didn't have family support. My family couldn't support me, and so, I had to figure out what to do. The first role I took was actually a physics education Postdoc at Hopkins, a donor-funded position to redesign the intros of the lab curriculum which effectively killed my academic career. But I got to know all of the deans at Krieger and Whiting very well and the department chairs, somewhat of a high-profile position. That's sort of what killed my academic career, and when that was done since that had a time frame on it, I ended up in the Intelligence community, data science. They handed me a book on Java and told me I had 2 weeks, or I was fired.

Lois Dankwa 

Wow! I as someone who has tried and failed at java, I know that's a really hard ask. So yeah, I mean congratulations to you for kind of going all right, this is what I’m being tasked with. So, it's such an interesting, but it's such an important lesson to remember that sometimes the hopes that we have are the directions we'd want to go in for our PhD or even any type of academic like what we do after our academic career, and pursuing a degree, is really driven by the circumstances in the environment that we're in and I’m really glad that from your lens and your perspective you're like well it was out of necessity. I needed to figure out what my next step is, whether or not it was what I initially planned. But I’m curious how kind of that that first role kind of brought you to where you are now, and if you could tell us a little bit more about what you do now. But then also, yeah, how did some of the things that you learned during your PhD really frame how you think about things now? 

Ian Tolfree

so, I was a developer for about 18 months, and then my contractor went under during the era of are we/ aren't we gonna fund, and I didn't want to stay in the field. It didn't keep my mind entertained. It was interesting for a few months, but then every day looked the same for the next 35 years, which gave me a panic attack, and so I was looking to try to figure out just what career I could explore, because I still didn't really have a direction. Yet, and Johns Hopkins had just started a new tech incubator, and I was hired at Hopkins as the first employee of the new tech incubator. This is where those relationships during that postdoc that killed my academic career came in handy, because I knew all of the department chairs. I knew the deans at Krieger and Whiting. My PHD Advisor at this point had moved up to the provost office and there was just a mutual trust, and that I would be able to execute, even though I didn't necessarily have tons of relevant experience. And so, I went back to Hopkins in this role, and my role there was literally to knock on doors, figure out what research faculty members were doing you know figure out what was commercializable that could be commercial through a startup, and didn't need a large company to develop them. And then I would either help the faculty members patent that within the university architecture, for that, if that was relevant, or they'd already done that, I would help them structure it into a yeah to what would a product be how to do the research, to figure out what a product was, and then figure out sort of the time, money, and risk of going from where we are today to what is a product that someone would buy. And that's sort of where I started to realize where I was useful. I may not have come out of my PHD with a lot of practical skills, but I really was taught how to think, and that allowed me to talk to people across departments. Where users specialize in a vertical, I can work with material science, chemistry, biology, biotech, physics, and commercialized. Because Hopkins is so interdisciplinary, word of mouth spread about the resources that we were offering, and suddenly medicine, nursing, public health were involved. And I just my job is to talk to all these brilliant faculty members about their research, and to work with them to help them turn it into a product. And that's largely how I got on the career path I am on today. I went through a phase, whereas the serial entrepreneur I work in optics, semiconductors, medical devices. Starting company based on University Ip. After I left Hopkins, which ultimately led me to venture capital where my role today is. We invest in seed series a very early stage startup, and my job is to faculty members to understand the science and make sure the science works, to train, translate that signs into business outcomes and products and figure out the time, money, and risk of getting that product to important investors.

Lois Dankwa 

That's amazing. It's also I love kind of being able to connect the dots as you talk where you really highlighted the importance of relationships to kind of help you get to a moment where you could realize and remember that what you learned in your PhD, even if it wasn't so explicitly reflected in the roles that you were doing. You realized you could really strategically think and I think that's something that's so easy to forget as kind of PhD students or candidates working on something you're just so focused on the day to day that you forget your learning how to think and you're learning how to pivot and respond and I think it's really cool that even in in your roles that you're in now kind of the venture capital world it's those were left relationships and the talking to people. That's really that muscle that you're continuing to exercise. Continue, please. 

Ian Tolfree

And then I think the area of physics I did helps, because often as you go up through a PHD program, you get more and more siloed in a vertical, and when you do that, it becomes very hard to see outside your vertical, but the types of physics I did, I had to keep you out to effectively tell a story through cartoon pictures, and then try to ascribe equations to them. Mathematically tell that cartoon and at that level of abstraction, it doesn't matter if it's biotech, chemistry, material science, as long as you zoom out connecting broad dots or cross areas, then you could bring value to the conversations. You could understand what someone and you could think of things that they hadn't thought about before. By then, specifically, because you are not, you don't have the preconceived notions on what should be done.

Lois Dankwa 

Yeah, that's I mean so part of my focus is thinking about how different teams can work together. So, I I’m in full agreement. I so it's making me think about mentors, and just as someone like PhDs have advisors. So that makes sense. But I’m curious kind of where you this kind of value for relationships, or noticing the importance of reaching across, like the aisle to people in different disciplines really came from, and I’m curious if there were kind of specific professional mentors that were really important to you, or they gave you really important advice that helped guide a lot of your thinking. 

Ian Tolfree

Yes, and specifically it was one sentence. So, coming out of physics and academia, you largely work alone. And it was. And one of my early business partners, David Brecker, he said to me, in this business you have 2 things: your reputation and your rolodex. With that, and as long as you keep those 2 things clean and intact, then you can always live to fight another day. And he was a person who nobody knew who he was that that man had one of the most amazing rolodexes I've ever met in my life. I can say Dave I need a person that looks like this. And he would say, Oh, how about the head of product development at what was a fortune 500 and within a week we'd have you know a several hour meeting with that individual.

Lois Dankwa 

They that's so cool and so I just wanna quote your friend David again. Reputation, and your relevance was that it?

Ian Tolfree

Rolodex. 

Lois Dankwa 

Rolodex. I'm glad I asked about that. Right and it's really just it's it makes me think about how kind of first impressions really matter right. And it's also just like people will remember how you made them feel. And that's how kind of both of those pieces plan to get to each other right?

Ian Tolfree

Yes, and especially in when you're dealing with start up, and you're dealing with venture capital. When I was trying to get startups off the ground, I probably spoke to my partners on those deals more than I spoke to anyone else in my life, and so you have to get along, and once you invest in a company it's going to be you know a 10-year endeavor and so you want to pick people who you get along with, who you like, and who you trust, who are going to be honest with you. There's too much at stake and you know one of the largest things that say frankly, is just that you just need to be very direct and honest with people, and what that ends up breeding in this ecosystem people that want to work with you. If you have a great tech, then you get to pick who you but on the investor side you want to be the person that people want because you had value beyond just getting capital.

Lois Dankwa

yeah, that's a really good point. It's right remembering that you have a value beyond capital and it's making me think about kind of your entry point from kind of your PHD moment. But then also where you are now, and I can see how people could look at that and go, whoa these are really different worlds. But then there's of course they're not. And You're using a lot of things that you learned from your PHD. I'm really curious how for you since you came from an academic background, how you kind of would explain kind of that background to prospective partners that you were going to work on projects with or prospective employers when it may not have been so obvious why you are interested.

Ian Tolfree

You know it's frankly easier to talk to people I want to work with and partners than talking to employers. They see that I worked in all of these areas, that a generalist they see potentially a lack of focus, and they frankly don't know what to do with me, because I don't sit in a nice neat box. But when I talk to potential partners, their collaborators, their potential investment, typically academics and scientists that I’m talking to. And when I tell them the story that I just told you about all the different things that I did that bring value to the table, because they understand that I've just seen things that they haven't seen yet to do that quite helpful for that.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, that's as someone who's interdisciplinary, I certainly understand how kind of someone that might have a single touch point to what you're doing might not know how to connect all the dots cause like you're saying you can seem like a generalist right? I think that that type of role is really important because you're able to really connect the dots in ways that people aren't really thinking about. So that's really important. 

Ian Tolfree

And this comes back to coming out of my PHD where I not only learned how to think, but I became a learning machine, and so that allows me to learn and get up to speed very quickly on a technology and even hanging out with my friends who are in finance you know say they work in derivatives or fix just by sitting in on enough conversations you get to see a lay of the land, and how things work, and how people think about things. If you think every moment, whether business or social, is an opportunity to learn if you’re surrounded by the right people.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, that's a good point and I love that. I love that you said learning machine. That's really cool. So, you said, surrounded by the right people. But I guess a question can be, then how do you find those right people? Do you have any advice on how a PHD Student who maybe may not be good at initially finding the right people, or thinks they have a community, but then realize, Oh, wait! This is not actually the right people, because I’ve realized my interests have changed.

Ian Tolfree

So a large part of that is knowing yourself and knowing what your Interests are. A good job is a job that doesn't feel like a job, where you don't get out of bed every day and say geez I have to go to work today. Get out of bed and say I can't have to do today, because it's exactly what I want to do. And once you know yourself to know what your interests are, then it becomes a lot easier, and that could be reaching out to alumni that could be reaching out people on LinkedIn and asking for advice. It could be going to networking events. There there's no real one size fits all answer. It depends on what your interests are, and finding where, where people in your local community that share those and that share those stepping outside your comfort. Yeah, and putting yourself in these situations, and not being afraid to say I’m here to learn. I don't know. Can you what do you think I should do, and just generally interacting with people to get over that shy area.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, that's a yeah. It can be very unsettling to do things that are new right. But I guess on one end being PhD students and working towards to come like completing a dissertation is stepping out of your comfort zone every day. But it's thinking about yeah, what kind of helps excite you and how can work, not feel like work?

Ian Tolfree

Yeah. When I talk to entrepreneurs at universities, a lot of undergraduates ask me, what can I be doing to enhance? First answer I always give is get used to being uncomfortable. If you don't like roller coasters, go spend today at the Amusement Park riding roller coasters. If you don’t like water, go to the beach if you're close to one, because you're just always in new situations that have a tendency to make you uncomfortable, and once you find comfort in that uncertainty and become comfortable, then the whole world starts to open up. 

Lois Dankwa

Something that you said was knowing yourself, and the importance of knowing yourself and I'm curious how your identity and you kind of continuing to know and understand yourself has really impacted your career journey so far?

Ian Tolfree

It had a great impact. And so, when you look at my career journey after my PHD, it was sort of meandering for a little bit until I figured out what I liked. And what I liked is having my brain entertained. Yeah, those were the things that were important, and it was really about high level criteria that I sort of stumbled into the startup by you know, being kind of in the right place at the right time is sort of a random chance to do that. But I was looking for something suited those criteria for me about having just diversity, and what I do and what I get to think about, and having my mind it wasn't specific it was high-level things that guided me. 

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, so you've done a good job of kind of highlighting a lot of the things that you you've really appreciated from your role now, and just to your story and you've also talked about some challenges. But I’m curious I guess for where you are now what are the most challenging parts of your job, and the roles that you're in right now?

Ian Tolfree

It's hard to say what's most challenging because every day it is sort of a challenge. I’m just intellectually challenged by learning about things and talking to people. In terms of other challenges, I’d say at this point I don't have any great challenges. But in general the challenge that I have in in getting here is that somebody always wanted to put me in a box. So, I didn't have the right resume. So, I wasn't qualified and I started a dermatology company. In the general biotech community sort of laugh at me. They said, you're a physicist working in dermatology. We can't take you seriously and then when I had the most high-profile dermatologist alive join my advisory board, then I got started, so I think I would say, getting to this point, it was credibility. But now that I feel as if I’ve established credits. Yeah, it's just sort of fun what I do. I love I get to work with friends. Sort of my social life and professional life in this community start to blend together. You start to invest in becoming your friends. and it's just very rewarding, and I’d say today I don't see a lot of these decade there were quite a bit. 

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, that's a good point and something that I heard from what you said was that also challenge isn't really a bad thing, either. It's being challenged to think for example, or challenge to push yourself outside of your comfort Zone can often be a great thing, and lead us to kind of how you're really enjoying your professional world kind of blending with your personal and more social world as well.

Ian Tolfree

Exactly it's no different than going to the gym and pushing yourself at the Gym. You're just pushing your mind similar way. It's not a negative. 

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, So I have one more question for you and I am curious What inspires you right now?

Ian Tolfree

Change in the world. Yeah, it can be in the world personally, professionally. Yeah, changing the world. That's very hard to do that as in as an individual. It's very hard to do that. I started companies because I wanted to change the world, and you realize that you can affect, say, a certain patient population. But your eventually effectively limited, and what you could do. But being on the venture capital side and working with people in companies, you really have abroad broad freedom to operate with the goal of changing the world, and building something whether it's direct or indirect, that that lets be on me and makes the world a better place it really inspires me every day. 

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, it I mean I don't know disagree with that sentiment. It's really wanting to create impact in a way that really helps people, right? So, I understand that. I think about similar things with healthcare. So, I get it. Yeah, well, Ian, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for chatting with us today. I’ve learned so much from your experience.