Dr. Gabriela Cantarero, PhD in Neuroscience | Lead Scientific Reviewer at U.S. Food & Drug Administration (FDA)

In this episode, we discuss what led Gabriela to pursue a PhD in Neuroscience and how she navigated finding PIs who aligned with her interests and values, her diverse experiences working as a military scientist, an assistant professor, and currently as a lead scientific reviewer at the FDA, and her advice for trying out different things and trusting your gut when it comes to finding a job that suits your unique personality and approach to life.

Hosted by Lois Dankwa

To connect with Gabriela and to learn more about her story, visit her page on the PHutures #100AlumniVoices Project website.

Transcript

Lois Dankwa

Hi. I'm co-host Lois Dankwa and this is the 100 Alumni Voices Podcast, stories that inspire, where we explore the personal and professional journeys of a diverse group of 100 doctoral alumni from Johns Hopkins University. Today we're joined by Gabriela Cantarero, PhD in neuroscience and current lead scientific reviewer at the FDA. Hi, Gabriella.

Gabriela Cantarero

Good morning.

Lois Dankwa

How are you today?

Gabriela Cantarero

Doing splendid. Living the dream.

Lois Dankwa

Well, I'm glad that you're here and I'm excited to dive in. And I think I want to first start by hearing a little bit about why you wanted to pursue a PhD in neuroscience and also just hear a little more about your graduate work in general.

Gabriela Cantarero

To be honest, it was a little bit of a a decision on a whim. So, in my undergrad I studied human communication sciences and disorders, and I kind of just fell into that major to begin with based on the advice that I got from a dean who is just like, try everything. Figure out what you like, figure out what you're good at at, and then you know find that intersection between what you enjoy versus or sorry intersection of what you enjoy and what it is that you're good at. So, I always gravitated towards understanding things about the human body and how it worked. And I was good at it. So, at the end of my senior year, I was trying to decide, you know, what was my next step? What did I want to be when I grew up? You know question I still ask myself, probably, you know, every five years or so and I had taken one class on neuroscience and I just thought it was so interesting and so cool. I was like, yeah, let's get a PhD in it. So, that's about the amount of thought process that went into it. I liked school and I liked learning. So, yeah, I just kind of was like, alright. Let's try this out. And so, I ended up deciding to go to Hopkins. And there again it was just kind of like an exploration on, you know, what was something that just kind of like appealed to me or that had this like gut instinct that I was like, oh yeah. I like this. This is cool. And I remember, you know, when I was a first year, I interviewed so many different PIs. I remember like my classmates who maybe talked to two or three. And then pick one. I probably talked to like 20. I also just like meeting people, so for me it wasn't difficult to kind of like reach out to random people and be like, hey, I'd like to hear about your work and such. So, I talked to so many people, and honestly, I ended up choosing my rotations, you know, not only that I thought the kind of research they were doing was interesting, but that, like I really enjoyed the person. I figured you know, I could learn most things and be interested in most things, but I really wanted to make sure that I had you know a relationship with the PI where I felt comfortable kind of coming to them with any sort of questions. I felt like they were someone I like spending time with. So, I did a variety of different types of rotations. Initially I thought I was going to do something, you know, in the auditory system, because that was what I was most familiar with coming out of my undergrad. But in the end, I ended up really like understanding motor control. So how the body controls movement, how we learn to new new skills, things like that. And in the end, I couldn't decide between two different PIs that I really liked. So, then I decided to do a collaboration with both of them. And that's how I ended up in the lab that I did. So, I did my PhD with Pablo Sonic and Amy Bastion. And there I really just got into trying to understand the neurophysiological mechanisms underlying how we learn new motor skills, how we remember with them, trying to think of new strategies that we can use to try to augment learning, ideally with some kind of application of helping patients to rehab, whether it be after a stroke or having some sort of motor disorder from a number of different issues. And yeah, I had a I had a great time in my PhD. I learned a lot. I had really fun and super smart, super friendly PI's. So, in the end, you know, I still consider them friends, even though I've long since graduated and I've actually completely left academia. You know, I'll still see them at, like, different holiday parties, friends’ weddings. And it's great. It's like a lifelong friendship with the people that I did my PhD with.

Lois Dankwa

That's really nice to hear. And it it sounds like your experience has been a combination of kind of the moments and experiences choosing you, but then you also carrying some intention when you were in those moments from when you were an undergrad and you had kind of that advisor tell you try everything. And then neuroscience picked you and then you were doing a PhD in neuroscience and then you picked the PIs but yeah.

Gabriela Cantarero

Yeah, so a lot of times, you know, I would always find when I would get to that junction where I had to make a decision of like what was my next step in life, what was I going to do after I graduate? Which lab was I going to join? What was I going to do after I finished my PhD? There's always sort of like that brief moment of like I don’t want to call it panic, but like discomfort of being like, I don't know what I'm doing next. But then you know, it's just, it's like the answer would come. I would get this gut feeling and then I would just jump. And honestly, after the jump, after I had just committed to something, it was great. Like I never regretted any of the decisions that I made, even though I felt and and this is you know has to probably a lot to do with environment, but even going back to my days at Northwestern, I feel like a lot of the people I was around had their like 10-year life plan or 20-year life plan. And I was like, yeah, I don’t know what I'm doing in the next 40 years, so it always sort of like stressed me out a little bit that I was like, oh, I need this like very straight vision of exactly like where my life is going. But then once I just got comfortable with pivoting, you know, trying something and then jumping to something different, it's been great and I find that it's actually suited my personality a lot more that I just kind of take life in five-year chunks. Like what do I want to do for the next five years? Not what do I want to do for the rest of my life? And I find that type of journey for me has been a lot more enjoyable than necessarily steering a very specific straight path of like where I think I should ultimately end up.

Lois Dankwa

That's it's helpful to hear in a lot of ways. One, five years is a long enough time away from the now moment where it's not actually very short term, but it’s I'm very much a like the next five years type thinker too, and my decisions end up being on quote whims, even though it's gut feelings and it's consistent going off of gut feelings where you're refining that ability, I guess.

Gabriela Cantarero

Yeah, it's so much less intimidating.

Lois Dankwa

Right, it's. No, I agree with that. It's right, it's digestible. And I'm, I'm curious then kind of with that being your approach, how did that, how did that guide how you did your doctorate? But then also how did that guide, since you had an idea of kind of how you wanted to exist after your doctorate, how did it guide how you looked for how to figure that out?

Gabriela Cantarero

Like how to figure out what I wanted to do in grad school or after grad school?

Lois Dankwa

Afterwards.

Gabriela Cantarero

So much like when I was finishing my undergrad, as I was approaching the end of grad school and I was like ohh, I need to figure out what I'm doing next. I didn't have a clear picture of what I wanted to do, so I went to a job fair and I was literally going up to like every desk and being like hmm, what could a neuroscientist do here? And you know, I talked with tables at the NIH all the way to like FBI because I was like, oh yeah. Maybe I'd make a cool like neuroscience spy, if that job ever existed, and I ended up talking with someone who was a military scientist. And so, I wasn't sure whether or not I wanted to do sort of a traditional academic route. That's definitely the pressure that you feel most often after finishing your PhD is like go do a postdoc and then eventually apply for a faculty position. And I just wasn't really sure that I wanted that, but I wasn't sure either that I wanted to completely, you know, get away from the lab. So, the military scientist was kind of like an interesting change of pace. So again, I didn't spend a ton of time, you know, deliberating on what to do and I was just like, alright, this sounds cool. I have an opportunity. Let's jump at it. So, I actually ended up an officer in the army. I went to boot camp. I did all that stuff. They trained me to shoot guns. I was really good at hitting dirt. So, it was just kind of a a weird cultural experience is the way that I would put it. But it was helpful because ultimately what my job ended up being was kind of like a liaison between two very different cultures, which is what I would describe as the science academic culture versus like the military culture. So, I got really good at sort of being able to, you know, like translate between the two worlds because a lot of times I would have to explain the value of our research to someone who was not a scientist and, you know, had this sort of like belief of, like, I need a deliverable now. I need a product now. And a lot of times, you know, science is not that fast. You know you gotta you gotta put in a lot of elbow grease to be able to ultimately come up with a a practical, practical product. So, even though I had a great time, again, a really interesting experience of sort of like balancing a career between the two, I didn't want it to be sort of my ultimate career. So, I had a great time the four plus years that I was there, but then ultimately, I was like, alright. Let me try something different. So I ended up going back to Hopkins. This time as an assistant professor. And I found that I really had this tendency that I struggled with, which was I liked learning about a lot of different things, and I didn't really like staying focused in one lane, and so the trouble is with a career in academia like you build your knowledge about like one very specific area and you become the world's expert in that one particular area and it actually does not behoove you to jump around and learn about different projects. And I just couldn't help myself. It was like ohh I'd be focused on, you know, doing research with stroke patients. And then I was like, oh, brain machine interface. Let me pivot and go learn about this project. So, in all honesty like I just could see this tendency where every few years I just wanted to to delve into a different project. And so, I ended up getting advice from a program officer that I was like what do you call me a mile wide and an inch deep. Because I was applying for grants and all these different areas, because I was like, ooh, it was kind of like, you know, what do you call it like shiny coin, pretty bird and then I pivot and be like, oh, let me learn about this. And ultimately, I was like, well, I like that. I like being that way. And if that's not a good fit for academia, then you know what else can I try? And so that's when I then made the decision, well, let me try the FDA. And that's been so much fun because basically, they want me to have my fingers in a bunch of different pots and a bunch of different projects, like that is the the job. And so, I'm constantly learning about various different neurological devices throughout different, you know, stages of their development, all the way from, you know, still very basic research where they're trying to transition from animals to 1st in human studies all the way down to spectrum to you know, products that want to be sold on the market or even following up with products that are already present on the market and you know bad things happen with them, for better or worse. You know, sometimes there are issues that come up with devices that you couldn't really predict and you don't really become aware of them until after they've sort of been unleashed to the world. And it's been really fun. So, I I'm all over the board in terms of studying different diseases and disorders, different types of devices. The one sort of uniting threat is that it all has to do with the central nervous system. And I get to be like good cop and bad cop. So you know, with different projects, I really enjoy working with PIs to help them develop and and figure out a path forward. And it's it's really impactful in the sense that, you know, in in the lab, it's like you spend 20 years working on something and then you have your life’s work to present. And that's that's a huge accomplishment. But I guess I'm just impatient. And, you know, 20 years is too long. I enjoy more of the immediate gratification and you know, I'm obviously not working on a in a vacuum when I'm making decisions about what devices move forward or or get stopped. But when I do make a decision, it matters. So, it it's sort of like I feel like I'm the protector of humanity where I'm constantly, you know, evaluating the risks and benefits of various different devices. Because you know very few things in life are are perfectly safe. And so, you're really sort of, you know, making an educated decision about do I think the potential benefits for humanity outweigh the potential risks of this device? And then based on my decision, I either can help products move forward to get to patients faster or I can put the brakes on and be like, hey, you really need to rethink this. You know, I'm not convinced that what you're showing me here is something really, really has more benefit than potential risk. And when I mentioned being bad cop, that's sort of like, you know, there are bad apples out there. There are people that sell these devices that try to take advantage of patients to say, you know, oh, here's this really easy way to treat or cure XYZ and you know patient populations can be very susceptible to that type of advertising and you know, not only could these products be directly harmful, but also in the sense that if it deters them from doing actual, you know, standard of practice clinical care because they think this other device is somehow better, it's actually delaying their own treatment, which in itself can be dangerous for a patient. So, I get to be Detective and I get to go, you know, kind of undercover and find out these companies that are doing shady things and I get to try to put a stop to them. So, it's neat. It's like I wear so many different hats. I get to learn about so many different things. And you know, I work with some of the smartest people, you know I've ever met. And we're always working together to sort of make a decision on what we think would be, you know, best for humanity in terms of how we want to treat different devices that we review. And you know, I get to see like, all the latest and the greatest technology and innovation. So, it's always really exciting and fun to learn about these things.

Lois Dankwa

It's cool that you've been able to kind of find find a work kind of style and setting that works and vibes with your larger approach to how you like to work and engage with information. And I think it's it's sticking out to me how important it is to be able to kind of as a person know what your preferred style is, whether it's being able to have kind of quick touch points with information or methods and then switching to the next thing or working on something ad nauseam for a longer amount of time. And I I could see some people going, oh my gosh, I get it. Like, I know how to to do that too. I know how to figure out what my style is, but I could see other people really struggling to figure out how to identify even what their flow is or how they like to work. And I'm curious how you were able to I mean, I mean, I know you worked through things, so then you figured it out by working, but how you were able to pinpoint what your style was, but then also if you have any advice for people who are trying to figure out what style they prefer?

Gabriela Cantarero

Yeah, I mean honestly, trial and error. You know, kind of like I said before, I never really had a clear vision of, you know what I wanted to be or what I thought would suit my I'll call it my personality best. And honestly, for me, the greatest discovery or self-discovery was just, you know, it's OK to pivot in your career. It's OK to try different things. And eventually, it's kind of a combination of trying things and seeing how much you like them and then also trying things and realizing how much you don't like it. Because I think a lot of times the inspiration for the times that I've kind of like did my zigzag jumps, it's because I felt a little bit like like I was trying to force my personality to fit in the expectation of the job. So, for example, in academia, it took me a long time to realize that my desire to get involved in different projects wasn't actually a handicap, which is kind of what everyone in academia was telling me. It was like alright, you know, focus. Stop, stop flittering around different topics. To then realize like, oh, that's actually a strength. There are jobs out there that really encourage that, sort of, you know, kind of Jack of all trades. And again, I don't think I would have ever figured this out had I just not tried a bunch of things. So that was what worked for me. I'm sure it's not the way that everyone wants to work. But I guess it's just, yeah, not being afraid to try something different. Not being afraid of the possibility that you could be out of your depth. And honestly, now that I've done it so many times, strangely I enjoy it now. Where it's like when I try something new and now, I'm like oh, this is all new. I am I'm a sponge. I gotta learn all these different things. I really like that.

Lois Dankwa

Right.

Gabriela Cantarero

It's kind of like once I I've mastered it, I'm like ready for the next challenge. But yeah.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, it's it's thriving in the uncertainty. I I can identify with that. It's you get good at realizing, oh, I don't know this and then it it makes it a fun process.

Gabriela Cantarero

And I guess for some people, that sounds like a nightmare. So, you know, that's that's not your style. So, it's kind of like if you hear something and it makes you cringe, that's informative. That's like alright, that is not what I want to be or to do. So, it's just that combination of again for me, I make a lot of decisions with my gut where I'm just like that feels good or that doesn't feel good. Whereas I know other people are like I need my pros and cons list, I have to you know very much dissect what it is that this would entail and make sure that I can jump in and be excellent at it already. That's totally fine if that's, you know, that's your vibe, but just don't feel bad about having a vibe that's maybe different from the people around you.

Lois Dankwa

That's encouraging. That's really helpful. I'm curious how being able to experience a lot of different types of work—that's that's not what I mean—engaging with different projects and types of information, how that's maybe enhanced your ability to communicate across, I know you mentioned when you were in the military, you were able to communicate the value of research and stuff, but could you talk a little bit more about that?

Gabriela Cantarero

I guess the way I would put it is it's kind of like learning a new vocabulary. You know not as hard as learning a whole new language, but a little bit. So, I have found that, you know, I have a lot of projects where for example, I have to work with a neurosurgeon. So, you know, let's say it's a device that they're implanting in the brain and you know, we're reviewing their protocol and I don't know anything about neurosurgery and what you should and should not be cutting open. So, I have my neurosurgeon that I speak to. But they have their, you know, way of speaking and thinking and I remember the first time I spoke with the neurosurgeon on our team, I was like, alright, this is a different language. But you know, the more you interact, the more you talk with them, you start to understand more, you know the approach that they take when they're looking, you know, at a particular file or things that they're looking for. And you learn that; you absorb it. And so, you know, the more I talk with these people, the more it's fun to like, have these team discussions where they're giving their opinion on, you know, what is good and what is bad and essentially what I end up doing is I take the opinions of all these you know experts and really smart people and I bring it together and I digest it and we come up with a decision. So again, I think part of it is being OK with, you know, for example, I would have a physician bring up some sort of you know, outcome measure that I've never heard of. And I was like, oh, what's that? And then, you know, they'll explain it to me and they'll say you know these are things to lookout for and just being OK with saying, hey, I don't know this, getting comfortable with that is really helpful. And I don't feel embarrassed because I there's no way for me to know all of these different areas of expertise, but everyone gets that. Everyone has their particular niche. So, just being fine with the fact that I'm just like, hey, I don't understand this. Or hey, what is it you're talking about and then they put it in terms that I get and then you know from there I just learned something new and awesome. So, it's just gratifying where I'm like, oh, now I get something that I didn't get before. Ohh, now I know how to sort of understand your thinking pattern or style or how it is you like to approach these files. So, it's like, literally every day I'm learning something new. So, I like that personally.

Lois Dankwa

Right, it's about connecting the dots. So, I have one more question for you. And I'm curious what inspires you right now?

Gabriela Cantarero

Again, I always like to feel that I'm, you know, for lack of a better expression, having fun in what I'm doing. I've had amazing times when I was a grad student. I had a really amazing times when I was in the military. And yeah, it's like I I stay there until it's not fun or until something else seems more fun. And it's just made my life very enjoyable and and then I'm also a huge advocate of work life balance, where you know my job does not define who I am. There's many different aspects of my life that all contribute to the person that I am and the things that make me happy. So, for example, for me, you know, playing sports was always a major outlet. I will probably continue playing sand volleyball until I've had like 2 hip replacements and then who knows? Maybe I'll focus more on my pickleball career after that, but just not feeling bad about prioritizing those things in my life, sometimes above work. You know, there's ebb and flow in terms of like what I need for my well-being and just not feeling the need to apologize or justify why I do the things that I do. Just knowing that these all contribute to me living sort of a happy balanced life. So that's something I'm sort of the big advocate of is like, have your your other things that define you outside of work and prioritize those just as much.

Lois Dankwa

Yeah, that's always such a good reminder and I'm glad that you uplifted those again today. It's so important. Gabriela, it's been so wonderful hearing from you, learning a little bit about your experiences and the things that have gotten you to this moment right now.