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Calling the Game: Inside the Umpire's Mind
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Speaker 2:Welcome back to the no Shot Podcast. I'm your host, santa, here with my co-hosts T-Mike and Chopsticks.
Speaker 3:What's up y'all?
Speaker 1:It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, a beautiful day for a podcast, and we're back. It's the no Shot. What's going down America? And we are brought to you by Radio Influence. That's our boy, jay Floyd, and we got the man in the background. That's A-Town. He holds us down with the dings and we are in beautiful Tampa Bay, florida. Clap it up for the Bay, ooh yeah. And on today's episode we know you guys are going to catch a vibe. You know what? Here's something that most people don't think about when you're playing sports, what does the referee, umpire and whoever's officiating the game actually think about? Coaches, players and the people in the stands? I got some opinions.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I bet you do, Josh. Yeah, I got some opinions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I bet you do, josh. With that in mind, we have an amazing special guest that's rocking with us on the podcast today and he's going to give us a little bit of his background, because he works in that arena on a consistent basis and he's experienced some things that I know you guys are going to want to listen to. Introducing to the world but I bet you a bunch of people know him already is Rod Queen. Clap it up, hey, yeah.
Speaker 2:Hey.
Speaker 4:Rod, what's going?
Speaker 2:on. Hey everybody, How's it going?
Speaker 4:Oh, not much. Not much Beautiful day here in Southwest Florida.
Speaker 1:Love it, love it, yeah, and love it. So, rod, obviously I've already introduced you as an umpire, but let's go ahead and start at the very beginning, where it all started. Let's drum back to where you were a child, before you became an elite umpire, and what brought you into sports? What sports did you vibe to? And, eventually, how did you get to becoming an umpire?
Speaker 4:Well, I grew up in a fairly small Midwest town, southern Illinois, hanging out in northern Kentucky. Football's king up there, you know that's what every boy's dad drives them to is play football. I was more into the baseball side of things, tried football a little bit. Stuck with baseball Running through high school. I decided to go a different route. After high school joined the Marines, went straight into law enforcement. About 14 years of that decided I'd had enough of that and my profession or trade is actually locksmith safe technician.
Speaker 3:Yeah that's right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I totally go a different route there, you know. But yeah, a lot of commercial locksmith work, high end safes and vaults, a lot of companies around the country. I've done a lot of custom work and rolled right in with my family my wife's from Venice, florida, which is where I reside now she's from here. We had an opportunity to move down here, took my business and roles. I have a son, 21 years old. He's an actual overhead lineman with power distribution. My daughter is freshman high school.
Speaker 4:She started softball at four and a half years old, right here in Southwest Florida, in Venice. I got started with the softball umpire side, which is all I've ever officiated. I've never officiated anything else other than that I started with just trying to learn the game better for her benefit, you know, kind of fell in love with it, got into the game, got into the nuances of the game and realized that the umpiring side of it is a game within the game. You know it. It uh, first couple of years were really rough. I never thought in my mind that there was that much studying, that much um management of mechanics and time and and to keep the game flowing and keep the game.
Speaker 4:Uh, because ultimately, you know I I personally I can't speak for everybody, but I do it for the girls in the sport. Really, I'm there for them. I'm not there to harass or hurt their game in any way. I'm there to keep the game, you know, running for them. They ultimately play it and I think that's a big thing that officials I hope most of them keep in mind, that we're not a part of the game. I stay out of the game. I'm just there to manage the game for them. I try to take that into every game with me, no matter if it's down to an 8U fast pitch game, all the way up to the collegiate level. It's not our game, it's theirs.
Speaker 1:Let's expound upon that a little bit. Rod, my bad, we're cutting you off there, no, but first and foremost I want to make sure that our audience heard you. You said that you jumped into officiating because of your daughter, and she's been playing softball since age four.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's correct.
Speaker 1:So what gave you that urge to want to jump into the game that's outside the game. Why didn't you become like a coach, or like a hitting coach or a skills coach? Why, umpiring?
Speaker 4:Well, I did the coach thing too. I probably left that out. So, uh, just just younger years. So I did, uh, you know, recreational ball, local, you know league levels, and then, uh, we, we had a very short stint with a 10u travel ball team. That just didn't manage and and it's probably my fault um, a lot of it.
Speaker 4:I'm. I'm really not a good coach and I recognize that early. I I'm, I know the game very well, I know the aspects of the game, but, um, I mean, girls are different than boys. I played this very well. I did. Um, you know, I can remember growing up playing baseball. You can kick a bucket of balls across the dugout for boys and yell at them and they're going to function, they're going to motivate themselves and go out and do better. Girls aren't like that. They're independent, very specific personalities, did very well with that. There's girls that I coached when they were younger, that we have a special bond. I've got adopted kids that call my second daughters and my third daughters all over, just because there's a bond there.
Speaker 4:But I was better with managing personalities and keeping that and I couldn't keep the game and the personalities at the same time, so I stepped out of that to go.
Speaker 4:You know I recognize there's a need for, you know officials that want to want to do this for the right reasons, so I decided well, I can. Where can I see it better than inserting myself into multiple games all over the place and and get to see the little minute aspects of it? Get to experience the little minute aspects of it, get to experience the most coaches, the most players, the most personalities, the most you know mindsets that I could. I mean, you're right there with the book. You know right down the lineups, you can see what the coaches decisions are and why they made that decision and understand a little better. And I hope my daughter would. I mean she's not here right now, but I hope she would say that that has helped her along the way. You know it's you see a side of the game that you don't get to see from the stands that you and another side of the game you don't get to see from a coach's box.
Speaker 2:You know. So I I've refereed several different sports and I did multiple different age groups and everything, and one of the most difficult things for me to learn was that, like I'm not going to be good right away. In fact, my first basketball game that I ever refereed, the coach the other ref told me he didn't realize I was that bad. So like it was embarrassing for me because it's in front of all these people and I was like man, like you know, I thought I knew the game. So like what was there like a learning curve for you where you were like man, like Ooh man, I gotta get better at this.
Speaker 4:Oh, yeah, definitely, uh, definitely, it's, it's. It was an eyeopening experience. The first time that I walked on the field with you know, the powder blue shirt and the heather gray pants on, and yeah, yeah, it's, it's. It was an eye opening experience. I didn't realize how much I didn't know. You know and not only you know pretty good, pretty good concept of the rules and I knew the rules pretty well, depending on what rules that you go with. There's 10 of them out there.
Speaker 4:But to understand the mechanics of the umpiring world, you know why we stand where we stand, why we move to where we move. Um, to learn those basics, it sounds simple. You know to. To stand, hey, your starting position is going to be 18 to 21 from from first base. You know when you're over on that side and then you're going to move to a calling position.
Speaker 4:You know to stand, hey, your starting position is going to be 18 to 21 from first base. You know when you're over on that side and then you're going to move to a calling position. You know it sounds simple, but get in your mind to wrap around why you're doing that, and I'm a why person. You know why are we doing that. You know. So the nuances of you know a tag play versus a force out is once you start grasping that things slowly, and I mean, that's not an easy process. It's not like, okay, I can go out there three times and I've got this. No, well, then you, the crazy plays happen, and then you get thrown for another loop, right, um, you know it's, it's, and then you, yeah, you see stuff all the time.
Speaker 4:You know it's, it's crazy. I've been doing this for years now and and every once in a while it comes up like, well, I've never saw that before. So, yeah, it's taken years. I mean, it's not, it's not a.
Speaker 4:I think you know, maybe some people have the mindset of, oh, they're going out here, they're making a hundred bucks for this game. You know, that's, that's all. They're making a hundred bucks for this game. You know, that's, that's all they're here for. There's, there's really I don't believe there's an umpire out there that says, you know what? I'm just here to collect my hundred bucks. There might be, um, but for the most of us, what people don't see is the, the pre-game work that we do, um, you know, talking as a crew, prepping as a crew, research, even on the teams that are there. You know, know, we've got this team versus this team and I've had this team before and another person's had this team. So, hey, what's the nuances of this? How do the coaches react? How can we keep this game palatable for everyone?
Speaker 4:I hate to say it, but the last people we are concerned with are the fans. That's not really what the we're there for, and it's a hard concept to keep the fans, because the fans, you know, they see what they see and we saw what we saw, and then it's hardly ever aligns. So it's it's I've I've done. One thing I've done well is I've I've learned to. I. I, for the most part, block all that out unless it's a disruption to the game. It, what happens behind me doesn't really matter to me. That's, that's not what I'm there for. I'm, you know, I don't do it for the money. I do it, it because I like to do it and I do it. I'm on that field to keep that game going, for the two teams, for the girls that are there, and to give them the best I can give them when I'm out there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's interesting that you say you have all this studying and whatnot that you have to do for different teams and different age groups and whatnot that you have to do for you know different teams and different age groups. So, like, break down, like what you have to prepare for when you're going into, like you know 12 year olds versus you know college, like what, what? What's really the difference between what you have to prepare for?
Speaker 4:Yeah well, it's a different set of potential chaos really.
Speaker 4:Eight, 10, and 12-year-olds. You know there's going to be some errant movements that they're going to make because they're not refined in the game yet. They're still really learning the game. The rules that may be the same, are pretty much similar, so you still hold that standard there. Balls and strikes may be the same, or pretty much similar, so you still hold that standard there. You know, balls and strikes may be a little, you know, a little lenient on that. You can't really hold a 10 year old pitcher to uh, you know, a d1 strike zone why not lock them in?
Speaker 4:even though the strike zone is really the only change in the strike zone from, you know, recreational ball all the way up to the collegiate level is the height of the pitch. Everything else stays the same, it's just little nuances. Growing up into college you know there's going to be probably a high potential for dynamic plays, dive plays in the outfield, dive plays in the infield, really really close plays. Your positions will dictate that. You know it changes as you get up there and you're getting up into young, from young girls into into adults. Their emotions have changed or their, their attitudes have changed. So you kind of have to play that a little different. You know and and work that when you're out in, play that a little different, you know and and work that when you're out 10, you on the field, you know the girl might ask me, little girl, shortstop, might ask you a question. You're gonna, you're gonna take her down a different path and maybe, hey, it's okay, you know no big deal and you know you have the collegiate level. They're adults, you know.
Speaker 4:So you kind of it's it's more of a hi, how are you? And that's it. There's no contact there. There's no talk, much talking. Let them play their game. I mean at that point they're semi professionals. I mean they've made it that far. I give them the credit they deserve. That's a hard road to hoe to get there, and you know. So it's just little differences of. I mean their skills change so much. So the game, the dynamics are going to change.
Speaker 2:All right, and you had mentioned the strike zone, and that's one of the most controversial parts of softball is the strike zone, and there's so many jokes about like referees being blind and like. So how do you, how do you handle the strikes? What's your parameters for the strike zone?
Speaker 1:First off, he's an umpire, not a referee.
Speaker 2:Oh, all right, sorry, umpire, are you kidding me?
Speaker 1:Great question, though Great question.
Speaker 2:But yeah, what's your opinion on all that?
Speaker 4:I think it's a visual, it fools visions if you're not standing right there behind it watching the pitches come in. So my opinion on the differences of opinion I guess, coming from the sidelines or behind you or above you, or at first base third base, from the sidelines or behind you or above you, or at first base third base, you're not going to see the same angles that the plate umpire does from behind the plate, Exactly. It's hard. You know, I'll be in the field as a field umpire and in between innings a plate umpire might ask me hey, how's my zone? You're like man, I don't know. You know, I really don't know it. You know it looks good from where I'm at, but I can't give you an honest opinion on that. I'm not right there. I'm at a weird angle too. So handling that is more.
Speaker 4:Um, I have little short, quick conversations with the catcher. Um, I don't ever coach the catcher. I let her do what she does. She has a coach, she doesn't need an umpire as a coach. I mean, we don't know what their coaches know. So I kind of coach her like hey, you know, you know she looks at me kind of funny. I'm like, hey, she's just missing a, you know, half a ball with outside. You know, I'll kind of give her that insight and I do it for all of them, so it's not unfair to one team or the other and I let her take that information and do what she wants. But if she asks me where a pitch misses or something, I'll tell her. I'm more apt to tell a catcher than I am a coach.
Speaker 1:Okay, hold on, hold on, let's stop right there. That's Queen. That's really valuable information, Because I bet there's a bunch of coaches and a bunch of fans and a bunch of players that don't believe you.
Speaker 4:I totally get that. I mean, I'm not going to be naive enough to say some umpires aren't at a different mental state in there. You know, taking the game, as I'm here to run this, I'm here to do this, but we're also there to. You know, we're officiating a game, we're not running a game, the girls run this game. So it's no different than appeal from a coach. Or hey, can you, can you get it with your partner? I think you were blocked on that play from a coach. It's no, contrary to popular belief. You know, even like a check swing, any player on that field can ask that question Did she go? And we'll go for help. You know it's so. I look at that as no different than affording a coach, you know, a conversation with my partner. If we're out there on a close play, I look at it, no different. Hey, where's she missing Outside? Okay, that's fair.
Speaker 4:Most of the time the catchers know. They know better than we do. Honestly, a catcher's in a better position than an umpire. They're going to know. They turn around to you and go did it miss low? Yes, okay, and they go on about their business, you know. And then they handle whatever they need to handle in the dugout or, adam you know, go out and talk to their pitcher. I mean, they're welcome to do that too. They have so many of those according to the rules per game and usually they never players never, ever use all their conferences that I've ever seen. So it's a valuable tool. Some catchers do it, some catchers don't.
Speaker 1:So I love where we're going with this conversation now, because we're opening up the doors to high-level clarity that a bunch, especially fans and parents, do not understand nor see. Right, and like I told you before, queen, when we were going to bring you on the podcast, oh, this is going to get entertaining, this is going to get real entertaining Because when they finally understand what's really happening in the game, that's within the game, and then the game that's circumferencing the game, which is what the umpires control, from there they'll notice that umpires are genuinely doing their very best. From there, they'll notice that umpires are genuinely doing their very best. They are not perfect, but they also have to deal with those intricacies.
Speaker 1:And my next question how do you start to deal with the emotions of coaches, athletes and fans when they just cannot control themselves, regardless if it's right or wrong, when they lose it, they crash out. You know what I mean. How do you learn to deal with those individuals? And we'll go one at a time. We'll kick it off with the coaches first. How do we deal with?
Speaker 4:coaches. My personal and I can't speak for everybody here my personal approach to it's an emotional game. It's an emotional part for the coach. I go into these games knowing this um, the coaches are there partly for their pride, possibly, and the and, and they're there for their, their team um. So they have to show um leadership in their role too. So coach gets emotional, even even a little out of pocket, so to speak. Um, you know, um I the biggest thing I do is try to keep my emotional level down. Uh, you know, as silly as it sounds, speaking with a calmer voice, not animation, with my hands not looking away, even down to if I have sunglasses on, I will take my sunglasses off to speak eye to eye with someone. It's respectful to do that. I think it's disrespectful for an umpire to walk up with some big, giant blue blockers on.
Speaker 1:Got the header blockers on.
Speaker 4:Yeah you know, because you can read so much from people's eyes emotional in their eyes. So I end nine times out of 10. If I don't get animated and don't get amped up and my voice doesn't raise, they'll come down at least a notch or two conversation. But respectful to them, respectful to the game and and keeping that emotional level down on my side usually keeps them from elevating past the point of no return. Um, so sometimes it doesn't work, it's just nothing you can do sometimes. But the biggest thing is to not take it personally. It's usually never a personal attack on the umpires themselves, it's an animation in the game, a close game, you know, a championship game, something like that. Everybody's emotions are heightened. So I think that's my biggest thing is keep my emotional level down, show a level of calmness with that in mind, we can talk about the emotions that we hold for our sponsor.
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Speaker 2:You know, when it comes to sports, specifically softball, some people don't have enough apples on the apple tree to take a full load to the juice factory.
Speaker 1:Bro, how long did you wait to say that?
Speaker 2:Oh man, like probably a year A year, that's crazy Meaning. Probably a year A year? That's crazy Meaning. Like you know, some people don't have all the sense God gave them.
Speaker 1:I'll take it. So, moving to the next question, we just talked about coaches and emotions. Now, once again, players and their emotions. I can imagine what you're experiencing behind the plate or at first base or any other location on the field. You can hear what players are saying, you can read their body language. How do you deal with players that are being insanely disruptive or disrespectful or rude to you?
Speaker 4:That's easier said than done because it's a lot of times not directed towards. So you know, I let the coaches handle that. I never, ever, get into heated discussions or anything with a player. That's not our job, you know. So I let a coach handle that. And most of the time, a quick conversation with a coach any of them but the head coach specifically just a quick conversation, just a hey, just so you know we can't have that, you know type of thing. I appreciate your help.
Speaker 4:That little ending right, there is another one of the diffusal things, little things like that. Hey, I appreciate your help with this and just walk off and just disengage. Nine times out of ten, that's all it took. He's going to have a conversation in the dugout. He or she's going to have a conversation in the dugout and it's usually over having those things in the past where a player has got upset about something, got a little emotional about it. Um, had that conversation with the coach, come back, may have them a month or two, that same team, month or two down the road. That player didn't take it personally. She, you know, good morning, blue, good morning, hey, how are you okay? Go on. They just don't see the reoccurrence of that, so it's kind of rare that that even happens. I mean, they usually take it out on their coach, so yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So moving to the last one, and I know for a fact there's no possible way with all the memes and videos you see on YouTube, yeah, when it comes to fans going absolutely berserk on umpires I've watched videos Queen to where in which I've seen umpires get into arguments with fans and walk off the field, yeah, and the game's canceled. They're like you're not going to treat me that way, and I know you've had experiences to where in which you've had police escorts yes, that's yeah, boom, we just cannonballed into this one.
Speaker 4:Uh. So when I said that, you know, I kind of I, well, I do, I I disengage from players and even more so from fans. I, you know, no pun intended, but I turned my back to him. Most, you know, most of the time, um, if, if it's just chirping in the stands or doesn't like the strike zone and, and it's mind you, it's never going to be the winning teams fans doing this, so you, you can pin this to one side of the field or the other, and so I turn my back to it If it gets to where it's disrupting the game. As far as players are taking notice, obviously any types of violence or anything like that has to be handled. But there again, I go to the home head coach. Whoever is head coach is in charge of that section. They have to deal with that.
Speaker 4:We have no authority outside that fence line. High school you know softball for instance, during the plate meeting, we specifically asked who the athletic director is on duty at that specific school that day and we write their name down so we know who to ask for, who to go to the other side. Hey, get me the athletic director this is their name Boom and then they handle it. So we have no authority to eject or fans. I know it's you know probably that's been heard of before the umpire's going to eject a fan. We don't have authority for that. That's for the school to handle, for the coach to handle.
Speaker 4:If it's just chirping, I don't pay any attention to it. Most of the time. If you don't give them the time of day, they either don't pay any attention to it. Most of the time, if you don't give them the time of day, they either don't get any worse or they quit or they walk off. If they get mad enough, sometimes they just walk off and remove themselves, so it's easier. But if it gets to where it disrupts the players, yeah, we have to do something, because we're not here for the fans either.
Speaker 2:So have you ever had a player, a coach, a fan come and try and attack you?
Speaker 4:No, not attack. I can't say that I've ever had an attack. There's been some threats in the past which prompted Mike's message about getting escorted from the, escorted from the field to back to our changing area, back to our vehicles. I mean we have had before, but precautionary most of the time and really it protects the fans as well as the umpires. If that needs to happen, because it never gets to a level it doesn't need to get to, you know, if it gets bad enough, where threats have been made from the stands, sros or the AD or somebody will walk us to the changing room and then escort us to a vehicle and then we're off on our way.
Speaker 4:I don't think I've ever had it to where it's blossomed into, you know, blown over into another game anywhere. They're pretty isolated. You know we have to take it in context of this. You know, pre-high school it's just travel ball tournaments, they're learning the game. High school, it's just high school. Sports College is just college. One of my mentors and umpiring told me one time, and I think this holds true for players, coaches, fans, everybody, it doesn't matter if you're in an au travel ball game or, you know, at the university of florida, it's just softball, it's. The game is the same. Some rule sets have changed, but it's just softball.
Speaker 3:It's interesting. You have to go through three different groups of people that might attack you verbally. For whatever call you make, what do you think is maybe the most controversial or the hardest call you've had to make on the field?
Speaker 4:What do you think is maybe the most controversial or the hardest call you've had to make on the field? I'll tell you that's an open-ended question. I think the call I don't like to make on the field the most and it would deal with an administrative ejection. This is probably on the top of my list for illegal equipment. We have bat lists that come out every year and USA Softball has an unapproved bat list and college has an unapproved list and high school has an unapproved list. I take it personally on me because I didn't catch it before.
Speaker 4:The player may have gotten to the batter's box, but then that player gets in the batter's box. The opposing coach mentions it. Well, our hands are tied. So now the players restricted the bench and the coaches out of the game as well. I think emotionally I don't like that the most because really I felt like that could have been an accident. Really I felt like that could have been an accident.
Speaker 4:You know, down to, honestly, ejection of players and coaches, even for disciplinary reasons. I can't stand that. I don't like that. I worked so hard with emotions and managing the game to keep players and coaches in the game that the very few times I've ever had to eject either one. I think about that for a week or two straight after the game. It's. It's a hard thing, well, cause you're now, you're escalating something and then you're coming right back into the game and trying to bring all the other players and coaches back down to focus on what they need to focus on, and there's this huge distraction on the sideline. You know it's definitely needed.
Speaker 4:I mean, there's times where you know it's funny, I always tell people I don't eject anybody. Coaches usually eject themselves. You know they give you to where it's such black and white in the rule book. You have no choice to maintain the integrity of the game. You had no choice there. And, um, a fact that I'm kind of proud of, I've ejected four coaches ever from a game, only four times. So I don't pull the trigger lightly at all. Um, so it's, I think I and I may be more conservative than I need to be.
Speaker 4:There's definitely umpires out there that are not that conservative. I think maybe a balance of the two. I think it's, you know, I think it correlates with our own emotions, the umpires emotions and the attitudes and how they handle themselves and how they present themselves at the stage for a lot of the rest of the game, and sometimes it doesn't matter, it's the things go and they implode on themselves. Sometimes there's nothing you can do and and I try to keep those decisions and those, the those things that happen in that situation, from happening as much as I can. You know it's I think there's value in the coaches remaining there because it's I can remember times where my coach, you know, back in Little League, would blow up and go to the car and it somewhat ended the game for us. I mean, we were emotionally destroyed by that as players and I don't like to see that. I think it's taken away from the game.
Speaker 2:You know. So I've been thinking about this Now. It started in the MLB. One of the teams is allowing the torpedo bat and whenever something happens in professional sports, it like trickles down like everyone else wants to use that. Are you? Are players trying in the college world trying to use that? Are you? Are players trying in the college world trying to use the torpedo bat is specifically in softball uh, not that I've seen, um, not that I've seen at all.
Speaker 4:I mean it's there's fairly, especially when you get to the college level, there's pretty good restrictions. I mean, um, there's specifications for the bat there, there's an approved bat list. So it's hard to bring at the collegiate level and even on down it's hard to bring something that's kind of off the wall into the game. I mean there's even specifications on the compression of the ball. So there has to be certain balls there. They have to meet certain requirements. So it's pretty regulated. I mean it's regulated pretty tight.
Speaker 4:A lot of people may not know but bats are in the collegiate level. Bats are tested before the game and then they're inspected by the umpires prior to the start of the game and they have to have a specific number of bats and they have a list of what bats they have and they're usually highlighted on that list. The umpires physically look and inspect the bats, check them with the list. If the list checks out the, usually the plate umpire signs dates and and circles the number of bats on that list. You know prior to the start of every game. So it's pretty regulated.
Speaker 1:Well, that's absolutely outstanding, because that just crippled my next question. Because my next question was ultimately, I can imagine everybody's trying to get an edge in some way, shape or form. They're trying to get an edge with their equipment, they're trying to get an edge against the other team mentally, emotionally, and they're trying to get an edge with the umpire. Now I know you've been behind the plate. Could you give us a couple of examples of maybe how players in the field, specifically maybe the catcher, is trying to get over on umpires to to manipulate you mentally or manipulate what you see?
Speaker 4:Yeah, well, um, yeah, the. The favorite old thing that catchers do is framing the ball and it's and there's good ways to frame a pitch and bad ways to frame a pitch. Personally, if you know a catcher is moving the ball from a questionable area in or out of the zone to a more favorable area for for me to call a strike, for, yeah, sometimes they move just too much and and in my opinion, if, if you had to move a ball, a foot, to try to get me to call a strike, you didn't believe it was a strike to begin with. So I'm not, I'm not giving you that. But yeah, they, they set up in different angles and you know some of it's very, you know, advantageous to them.
Speaker 4:Um, catchers will kind of angle themselves to put their shoulders and their arms in a better position to receive a pitch, and it's, like I said, it's all about angles and distance.
Speaker 4:So if they're setting themselves up to receive a pitch and they can receive it better, that's I mean catchers are. It's hard to bring equipment on there, that's going to change that, but just, some catchers are really really good at it, some of them are not and it, but it all boils down to did the ball cross any part of the plate and did it cross too low or too high? If? If it crossed the plate and it was within whatever zone, whatever rule book you're looking at, it's a strike. It's seems sounds simple, but it's definitely harder than that. But, um, that's just the way it goes. So their angles and distance, you know how they set, how they receive, how they're, you know where, where their glove ultimately is. But the strike zone is the strike zone and we watch the pitch, the ball coming across the plate, not necessarily where the catcher catches it. So that would probably be the only things that they could do.
Speaker 1:That makes a lot of sense. So, with that in mind, now let's swing the conversation a little bit of a different direction when it comes to coaches. Obviously, coaches want to interact with you in typically a friendly manner. They want to have balance with the umpire because that actually affords them better opportunities during the game. With that in mind, what type of suggestions would you give a collegiate coach in regards to maintaining their emotional IQ and stability by comparison to a travel ball coach that's maybe doing at the high school level, by comparison to, like, middle school?
Speaker 4:You know, I think, what my only thing that I like to see and it doesn't matter what level they're at, I don't think the levels make a huge difference Just have the conversation with the umpire. So treat coming out to ask for an appeal, coming out to question a call not necessarily question a call, because you really can't argue judgment in softball, but just have a question, have a conversation and treat that approach to the umpire. Meet them halfway and just ask a legitimate, low volume question. Usually it can all work out and even when things get heated, use that same approach. I can promise you if I think I may have missed a call, I'm already geared up to approach that coach. As soon as I see that coach taking steps towards me, I'm meeting them there, I know what's up and I'm probably going to grant it to them. Coming with that attitude and that demeanor, you're more apt to get me not to turn away from it and, if at all possible, I'm going to probably appease your request. I'm going to be like absolutely, it's definitely possible, coach, I was blocked on that play. I could have been blocked. I will go ask and see if my partner has anything that could have been blocked. I will go ask and see if my partner has anything.
Speaker 4:So I think that approachability from the coach level and the umpire level if they both have that approachability, I think it keeps a lot of the issues that rise as emotions get higher, as games get closer, as crazier things happen, I think it keeps it down. I mean you're going to ramp up a notch, absolutely. I mean, everybody's going to have human emotions, but I think that's the biggest thing and you know the coaches that may come out of the dugout throwing their hat and flying off the handle. It already presets someone else's emotions, you know it presets them to defend for a not necessarily a physical fight, but you know, an emotional fight. So I think it sets the stage for not necessarily the best outcome for everyone.
Speaker 4:Um, you know coaches that come out and have a conversation and may not get the answer that they want. You wouldn't believe the impact it has that. You know they can go well, blue, I disagree with you, but thank you for your time and turn around and walk off to the dugout. I've gained tons of respect. I mean, I feel like I'm like I respect that coach. I appreciate that more than I can say.
Speaker 2:So when you get amped up, you know, in the rare cases that you have when like tensions were high how do you bring yourself down?
Speaker 4:It's an internal moral compass, I would say. You know just, it's so many years. I think law enforcement has helped me diffuse my own emotions. Um, you know, it can be classified as not necessarily hard-hearted, but I can. I'm pretty good at diffusing my own emotions. It's a hard thing to learn, I mean it's years, but you know, knowing that I'm walking into a situation that is already five levels above what it needs to be. Back to what I said in the beginning I feel like if I can bring myself down, I'm the only person I can control. I can't control a player's emotions or a coach's emotions or a fan's emotions. I can control mine. So if I bring myself down a notch or five notches sometimes it's five notches that and I can get the coach or player or whatever down two or three from theirs. It's usually a meaningful conversation, or at least the outcome is a whole lot better than the alternative.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:Now I'm interested to find out what kind of training and stuff that you go through on the offseason just to stay sharp. And if you're not doing training, what are you doing with your free?
Speaker 4:time those in the rule book, keeping up with any changes in the rule that may get announced. You know, prior to a season. We also have what's called a case book and it it it lays out, you know, different plays and and this has happened and this was the ruling with it. So it gives you a lot of insight on plays that don't necessarily get structured around the rule. It gives you context to the rule. Um, we do that a lot, I mean as a collective. I mean we get together, you know, prior to the high school season, five, six, eight, ten of us at a time, sometimes at somebody's house, and we'll order pizza and we'll sit around and go through a pre-test because high school and college were tested. Every year I have to take a test online, um to qualify for it. Um, so we'll go over rules and what's came out this year and what's happened here, down to even u triple sa. Hey, what's u triple sa doing this year? Um, I was. I was big in at one time in usa softball. Um, so we'll go down and look at that rule set and try to turn our minds on to the nuances, the rules. We do a lot of preseason work In the fall. If we can get into scrimmages, I'll go umpire scrimmages, I will do travel ball tournaments, just anything we can to stay relevant. And you know cause?
Speaker 4:Every year things change. I mean, ncaa posts out rule changes every year. It may be two or three rules, it may be minor, it may be big. You know, like one of the pitching rule changes just blow from NCAA down to high school and in the recent past, and it's the leap rule, where the pitcher can actually lose contact with the pitching plate prior to the delivery of the pitch. Well, when you have something dramatic as that, you have to have hard discussions about it.
Speaker 4:How do we recognize this? Let's watch videos on this, let's see it. Let's see what it looks like to be legal. Let's see what it looks like to be illegal, where we can make the decisions as educated as we can and have the best judgment that we can have going into that game. So it's constant, it's. It doesn't stop when college season's over, high school season's over and we just we keep going with it. It may slow down in the summer. Unfortunately, I probably won't be umpiring a lot this summer. My daughter is on a travel ball team that's going to do exactly that we're out of state, probably four out of the six tournaments.
Speaker 1:So fun, and you know what that leads me to our final question. This episode has been insanely informative and it's been really fun because a lot of people don't get the opportunity to hear this point of view. So, with that in mind, if I gave you a scale of 1 to 10, queen, what is the level of stress of being a college slash, high school slash, middle school umpire in softball?
Speaker 4:oh, it's high, it's, it's up there six or seven I mean it's one of those things.
Speaker 4:If you that's another emotion you have to control, you have to, you have to bring yourself back down to this is happening right here and you take it one pitch at a time and if you can control your emotions enough, umpires call it pre-pitching, so you know if you got runners on base and doing this before that next pitch, I'm thinking about. If it's hit here, I'm going here. If it's hit there, I'm going here. If this happens, I'm doing this. So you're thinking about four or five scenarios in your head before it happens and then the pitch happens. So if you can slow that down, pitch by pitch, you can keep your emotional level down to the four or five level, but it can get out of hand.
Speaker 4:Crazy things happen. Six, seven I mean tight, close, five level, but you know it can get out of hand. Crazy things happen. It's six, seven I mean tight, close games. And and most of the emotional stress that that we put on ourselves is to make sure we don't make the mistake. Um, I don't really have a stress about oh, this girl's gonna hit it up the middle or this girl's gonna steal. That doesn't me out. The stress is I have to make sure that I do the best I can to get the correct call, to the point of I have no problem in another umpire telling me hey, you missed that, okay, I'll change it, not a problem, I'd rather get the call right. I think that brings my emotional stress level down. In the end, it was the right thing to do.
Speaker 1:Absolutely love it. This has been an insanely informative episode of the no Shop Podcast, and now I think it's time for Trivia, trivia, all right all right, let's go. This is a general officiating question.
Speaker 2:Right, all right, let's go. This is a general officiating question, so all right. Which professional sport was the first to add overtime in case of a tie? Was it A the MLB, b the NSA or C the NFL?
Speaker 1:You got first dibs Clean. It's all you, oh man, a, b or C bubba.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'm going to go with C the NFL. All right, yes, all right, mike. What do you got? No, it's not me. It's always Chop next All right, no-transcript. It's always Chop next.
Speaker 3:All right, Chop what do you got? I'm going to go with MLB A, all right. What do you got, mike?
Speaker 1:You know what I'm going to go NFL as well.
Speaker 2:All right, yeah, it was the NFL hey.
Speaker 1:Let's go Green. We both get a D. Here's A-Town Boom. And we're moving on to, we got a random trivia question. A random trivia question. This is going to be weird, so I apologize. What?
Speaker 2:was the name of the first 3D movie. Was it the Terminator A, the Terminator B, the Power of Love, or C Back to the Future?
Speaker 1:Go ahead, queen. This is all here.
Speaker 3:I'm going to go with A, the Terminator hmm, I'm it's weird, but I'm going with the power of love.
Speaker 1:I don't even know what the power of love is either do I. It's a movie what was option C?
Speaker 2:it was the back to the future my goodness there's.
Speaker 1:I think chop is right. I think it's B. It was the Back to the Future.
Speaker 2:My goodness, I think Chop is right, I think it's me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's the power of love. What is this movie? When was it released? It was like 1978.
Speaker 2:Goodness, something like that.
Speaker 1:That was just so weird. And now we are moving on to Gin Pub and this portion. Queen, this is all you, brother. I need you to tell America and this is to the fan, this is to the parent of the player what is the best way for them to interact with you as an umpire, to make sure that their daughter's experience as an athlete is a good one.
Speaker 4:I think, foremost to remember that it's all for their daughter. It's not for the parents, it's not for the coach, it's for the girls, it's for the team. So every act that you do or how you act will reflect on them emotionally. The best way to approach us is believe it or not. Small talk, you know, just come up, how are you doing today? We appreciate that. We know that. You know people emotions get high. But you know coaches hey blue, if you need water it's in the dugout. You don't know how much that's appreciated. You know so little little things.
Speaker 4:Just keep it on a professional, personal level, if that makes sense. You know, handle the emotions the way you can Approach respectfully. I always try to approach everybody else respectfully. I demand that in return and just remember that it's. I think if we keep the mindset that it's for the girls, there's nothing out there for any of us old guys. There's nothing out there for any of the moms. We're all there for the girls. So if we can just keep the context on why we're there, I think it's going to be a whole lot better for everybody and outcomes win or lose is more palatable and that makes all the sense in the world.
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Speaker 1:This has been an episode of the no Shot Podcast and it's been brought to you by Radio Influence. That's my dog, jay Floyd. It's also been held down by the boy behind the mirror that's A-Town with the dings and our sponsor, the brand yeah, true, victory Apparel. That was a wonderful episode. Umpires are stressed out. My boy.
Speaker 2:We out. This has been the no Shot Podcast. Go check out the brand at truevictorycom and then go support the cast by rating us on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
