How to Cultivate More Confidence | Michelle Marin

I am so grateful to Michelle for joining me for this conversation!  Please check out her website to learn more or reach out: innerfitnesscoaching.com

Thank you for being here. Please subscribe and share if you feel called, and reach out anytime at https://www.fp-ct.org/

Transcript

Peter Callahan: 0:08

Hello, and welcome to the fresh perspectives podcast, where our intention is growing together. And leading with love. I'm Peter Callahan. And I believe we each have an incredible capacity to continue to learn and evolve as individuals and as a species. And bring way more love and a lot less fear. Into the world and our daily lives. Changing can be hard. And I found that even if nothing changes. Having the courage to see our challenges from a fresh perspective. Could change everything. I'm so glad you're here. Today. We have the distinct pleasure of connecting with Michelle Marin with inner fitness coaching, LLC. Michelle is a confidence coach who supports women in reconnecting with their inner leader. With over 20 years of corporate sales and leadership experience, Michelle brings a unique perspective. Slightly different than a fresh perspective. To coaching individuals and groups. Guiding them with empathy and enthusiasm. Michelle's ultimate mission is to empower women on their journey to boost their confidence so they can live on apologetically and embrace a greater sense of wellbeing and joy. And their work in personal life. And for all you gentlemen or non-binary individuals out there, I think you'll find this conversation very useful as well as I certainly did. As Michelle and I really dove into why she chose this label of confidence coach and how so many of us struggle with finding and developing confidence. What can actually impact our confidence levels and Michelle share some really interesting stories of her own journey through really lacking confidence, why she believes most of us have much more confidence than we think. The importance of self-trust and self-compassion. And Michelle says she doesn't share off in her daily practice that she gives us. As well as we discuss many, many other ways to boost your confidence and break the patterns of our inner critic and our inner judge. Including Michelle's characteristics of a confident leader. A Venn diagram that you can find on our website, inner fitness coaching.com. That's here in the show notes and we referenced it a few times today. So really grateful to be sharing this conversation with Michelle, with you all today. So keep it here. great. Well, so welcome Michelle. Thanks so much for being with me today.

Michelle Marin: 2:50

Yeah. Thank you. I'm excited to have this conversation with you.

Peter Callahan: 2:53

Me too. Me too. And we were actually just talking before we started recording about both resonating with this word rebel. So maybe today will be a bit of a rebellious conversation and know, as I like to think, most episodes on this Fresh Perspectives Podcast are something different, right. Counter-cultural that you're not gonna hear everywhere else, maybe. So thanks for for being in it with me,

Michelle Marin: 3:18

Yeah. What's interesting is most people wouldn't look at us and call us rebels,

Peter Callahan: 3:22

Right, we fit into so many of the boxes of privilege in our society.

Michelle Marin: 3:26

Yes, absolutely.

Peter Callahan: 3:28

Right. And this is where, you know, we can all be green peace activists and just be in the nude all the time, which I totally respect and think is a very valid choice. there's limitations to that approach versus let me look and play the part. And then once we're in there, we're gonna ask you, what do you really care about? Who do you really want to be? What are your deepest fears? Right? And that's, to me, that's the rebellious part that we probably hopefully help ourselves give some more opportunity to Not immediately, you know, if I got the peace sign tattoo on my forehead that I really want, I might turn a lot of people off immediately.

Michelle Marin: 4:00

But you.

Peter Callahan: 4:01

hopefully. Hopefully. And again, that's why I love doing this. I'm really, really grateful to, to be together today. And if we could start, Michelle Around this idea. I really love that you call yourself, you identify as a confidence coach, and I've actually seen in some coaching research that the word confidence is the number one, either maybe challenge lacking of confidence, or the desire to have more confidence. I believe it's the number one topic, at least that the International Coach Federation identified last year, I believe that people are up and looking for and talking about. So I think you really Tapped into something, and I'm really curious to hear maybe some of, if we go back a little bit, like what's brought you to this journey of really finding coaching and the word confidence as how you wanna identify right now, what you look to work on.

Michelle Marin: 4:49

Yeah, so I did not grow up with Much confidence at all, and that was such a challenge for me for so many years, just trying to check all the boxes and still feeling like I'm never quite there yet. So through my journey, I ended up, I mean, I have this huge passion for personal development and have done lots of courses and all these different things, and it's led me to becoming a coach. What I find is that as I got into networking and doing different things to build my practice, I recognized that there's a lot of coaches out there and you know, calling myself a life coach or a mental fitness coach, life coach, fell kind of flat mental fitness people. Some people were intrigued, other people scratch their heads. So I said, well, the one thing that my clients all want is more confidence in at least one area of their life. And what they come to find is that, Everyone has confidence in something, but they don't always see it. So it's been a really fun journey and I love the topic.

Peter Callahan: 5:50

Wonderful. And more confidence in at least one area. I like that. So there are probably many areas where Some of us are craving, longing for more confidence, but most people can identify at least one is what you've come across.

Michelle Marin: 6:02

Yeah. What I actually would, I've come across people saying I lack confidence. As a whole, they just think that they're just this being that doesn't have happen to have any. And then I ask, are you a good mother? And they go, oh absolutely. I go, well, you're confident. And then they say, how about at work? Oh yeah, I'm great. I'm a great employee. Okay, so let's, then we get to start peeling back the layers. What's actually holding you back from thinking you have confidence.

Peter Callahan: 6:29

Wow. I love that, that you can right away kind of help to, unearth some of the, the ways in which our As we often call them, limiting beliefs, we're telling ourselves a story that's not even accurate for ourselves. When we get more specific and peel back some layers, like you're saying. That's beautiful.

Michelle Marin: 6:46

Right.

Peter Callahan: 6:46

yeah.

Michelle Marin: 6:47

And something else I recognize is that we might have confidence in something. in the morning and later in the day, we're tired, we're spent, we're hungry, and then it feels unnerving. So it feels like it just ebbs and flows has been my experience of it that we, for me, it's the confidence to be able to lean into something regardless of how we feel. So that to me is more that self-trust of confidence.

Peter Callahan: 7:11

Yes. Self-trust. I, love that term. And that's, you know, the thing that comes up for me most strongly. And I'm wanna go back and, and ask a little bit about your past experiences, if we can. But just, just to share the part for me that I still feel the least confident about is in being able to trust myself. I've talked about this before, This word intuition has always resonated with me. Like, yeah, I'd love to have a sense of my intuition, it's been really hard for me discern what's like cognitive thinking, right? What's in my head? What are, you know, I love all this seven a Sela quote. You're not thinking your thoughts, you're thinking the culture's thoughts, right? There's so much that's conditioned and programmed into me and. What I've really learned is how important the body and somatic interceptive awareness can be a doorway into listening to myself, trusting myself, ourselves. Right? And yet I have, I still struggle. It's still a very much a practice for me to slow down and touch into. Not what, what do I think is the best or right decision? know, anything from what to make for dinner to how to go about building my business or what partnerships to make, you know, small and large, to be able to, to really trust what doing my best feels like and be. I often say like with clients, how can we be more honest with ourselves? Like where, and it, I don't, anyway, I just find it really tricky to trust that. I'm curious what comes up there for you.

Michelle Marin: 8:36

Oh, I resonate with that so much. And to be a confidence coach doesn't mean that you have it all the time, right? That willingness to have self-trust is a practice every day. And what I do is I have, you know, I don't say this to many people, but I have a word or phrase that I use every day as my focal point. You know, and it could be pointing to the idea of slowing down, you know, trusting myself, those kind of things. That something that resonates for the day to go, okay, this is gonna be my daily practice. And usually somewhere it centers around self-trust.

Peter Callahan: 9:12

Wow. Wonderful. So a daily practice

Michelle Marin: 9:15

slowing down has been my goal for the longest time. And it's amazing, even though it's something I really want, I feel like I have a hard time wanting to actually do it sometimes and I've gotten better, but it's just fascinating. And, uh, with that, I wanna tell you a little bit about positive intelligence.'cause it kind of ties in here.

Peter Callahan: 9:32

Well, and I'll just share my, I completely resonate with, all I want to do is slow down. I go on week-long meditation retreats, Michelle, and then I come back and start running within a couple of weeks again, like, you know, running in my mind and my life. So I, I'm totally with you.

Michelle Marin: 9:47

Wait. Yeah. Like I wanna succeed so bad that I am, there's that underlying fear of I have to try all the things. I have to do all the things, and then I get spun up and I don't do any of them well. I was just journaling about that today, right? So, God bless me for trying to do everything well and recognizing that it's not even possible.

Peter Callahan: 10:07

There's a very positive intention from that part of yourself, and yet a very unrealistic aspiration.

Michelle Marin: 10:13

right?

Peter Callahan: 10:15

Totally. Totally. so I, I've actually been through, you mentioned positive intelligence. I've been through the week program. I highly recommend that to any other coaches listening, extremely valuable, wonderful practices. But you've dove in deep, so I'd love to hear more from your perspective.

Michelle Marin: 10:30

Yeah, so I was working as a sales leader for, I was been in food service sales for many years, and, you know, in the background reading the books and doing the workshops and doing the meditation retreats, and I. I came across positive intelligence just over two and a half years ago, and I said, this is the unlock. This is the thing that it has the structure and the accountability that makes all the difference for me. So I decided I'm gonna go ahead and become a coach of this program. So I'm a certified positive intelligence coach, and I do meet, you know, I have a text thread with my accountability team. Every single night and we say, Hey, here's what was up for us today. Here's the practices that we did, here's the ahas that came up. And to me, that structure and that accountability has been just priceless. So I love the, that's what my biggest passion is for leading people through pods of this positive intelligence program because it is the, it's how the, the rubber meets the road, so to speak. And then it teaches us to really just get present and say, okay, feel the tips of my fingers rubbing together. Recognize the colors of the screen in front of me, and that is how we can just keep getting present over and over. It's, it really is so simple that we bypass it all the time.

Peter Callahan: 11:46

Yeah. Yeah, Absolutely. Awesome. So there's these practices that you're referencing that one could call mindfulness practices, but he, they're also called or Positive Intelligent within the Positive Intelligence Program. Right. But maybe just to take a step back to describe the program a little bit, do you mind just giving a little bit more of an overview? So Positive Intelligence is a training program. Ultimately, is that,

Michelle Marin: 12:10

Yeah, so actually it's, he calls it an operating system, Shead Shain. He wrote the book called Positive Intelligence and he was the c e o of c t i, one of the largest training coach, training organizations. And he realized that saboteurs, you know, that inner critic Was the biggest challenge. So that's what he decided to just spin off and do his own thing and dive deeper into the saboteur world. And he identifies, there's one like overarching the judge he calls it. And then there's nine saboteurs, the pleaser, the victim, the controller, uh, you know, there's nine total. And that's where There's a quiz and then people can discover what their saboteurs are. And it helps us gain awareness. And what's interesting is that, The saboteurs themselves, they were, you know, we can have some tenderness with them because they were set up as children to help keep us safe, but they haven't recognized that they're not actually helpful anymore.

Peter Callahan: 13:04

Right.

Michelle Marin: 13:04

But when you look at something like the controller, it, it means, typically it's the, you can be a great leader, but you're taking it too far and wanting everything to be your way. Or the pleaser. Everyone likes the pleaser, but then you lack boundaries in your life, know, so you're kind of giving yourself away. So it really becomes great to recognize these and how they partner together. It, it's maddening and enlightening and awesome, all wrapped together.

Peter Callahan: 13:33

Yes, yes. Wonderful. Thank you. Yeah, so in C T I or at Coach Training Institute, I know came up for me 10 years ago when I was going through trying to decide and I was kind of picking between there and ipec, the Institute for Professional Excellence Coaching, where I wound up going and there was this very equal. I just want, you know, who knows what details if you know, E US in one direction. But I love that sheer. After being c e o recognized, like I feel like this is what's holding people back the most or the very least, where he felt like he could make the greatest impact in the world and breaks it down In a way. That really helps us touch into these practices in a minute or two at a time, rather than, oh, I've gotta sit and meditate for even five minutes or 10 minutes, which can be really hard for people to boot up and even that. Framework around it. I need to meditate right now. Versus like, oh, I'm just gonna feel my fingers. I touch'em for a moment and back into what I'm doing.

Michelle Marin: 14:24

Right. What I like is that he doesn't ever talk, he doesn't call it mindfulness or any such thing because he wants, he wants it to be more for the masses. He does a lot of work in corporations. He works with CEOs and there's, oh my gosh. Thousands of coaches across the world that have become certified coaches because he wants it to be more accessible to people. So that's the great thing. And in the program, there's that one hour video and then there's daily practices four days a week, and then there's a weekly call so that everyone just, just kind of touching on all different cylinders so that we can be Learning intellectually. He said that's really about 20% of it, and then 80% of making the difference is what he calls mental fitness, the actual practice, because we can meditate in the morning in our cushion, peaceful and quiet. But what happens when we're in the middle of a meeting and something comes up for us, that's where the real work begins, right? Where we can start to say, yes. Oh, let me get present in this moment. This is when I'm really building the mental fitness.

Peter Callahan: 15:24

absolutely. Absolutely. And then bringing the awareness to these saboteurs as he calls them. And I really love of the systems that I've, that I've really liked and I've, I dunno if I've spoken to this much on the podcast, maybe I'll reference how. Model I can often be because I've just seen so many. And my real belief is that might benefit from any model that people have put together. And I'm actually excited we're gonna get to yours a little bit later, you've created.

Michelle Marin: 15:51

Hmm.

Peter Callahan: 15:51

It really matches up well with Internal Family Systems therapy created by Richard Schwartz and I, I've done a lot of this therapy

Michelle Marin: 15:58

Oh, a fan.

Peter Callahan: 15:59

of parts

Michelle Marin: 16:00

Mm-hmm.

Peter Callahan: 16:01

identifying these different parts and so much of my coaching revolves around self-compassion and helping leaders to notice these saboteurs, these parts of themselves that are these limiting beliefs. Maybe there's lots of names, right, that come up and hold us and. of try and help us. They're there to support us with their created nature, nurture at some point earlier in life. And there's always a and this is to me, the value of self-compassion. To recognize, oh, this part of me wants me to succeed, so I'm gonna be really forceful and overconfident on this call. And you know, that doesn't actually feel authentic to who I am, but it's what I, this part of me says I should do. So I'm just kind of doing it and I don't actually get the results that I want versus. Being able to notice, oh, that's a part of me. But if I really step back and bring my however old we are, like now adult discerning self to the situation, I actually think there might be a better way to work with this. And this is also where Michelle, I love to bring in nonviolent communication or just simple communication tools. Doesn't have to be a to give us confidence that we can. interact in a conflict situation where things might be a little more uncomfortable or sticky, but does that make sense to you? The, the parts work similar to

Michelle Marin: 17:12

Oh, absolutely. Yes, I'm more, I'm, uh, I'm becoming more fluent in the parts work and I'm reading his work, Richard Richard Schwartz. And it is phenomenal. And I really see how there's a linking there of, and one of the things that, uh, Shiza talks about one of his sage powers because as we move out of our Our reptilian ture brain, we shift into that sage brain. And I'm by no means a scientist, but I know the simple workings of, Hey, as we move into the sage brain, we can have discernment, we can have compassion, we can have all of these things. And he has what's called one of the sage powers is, fascinated at anthropologist. So a fascinated anthropologist is just that wow, look what's showing up right now. And you get to just get really curious. And to me that's amazing.

Peter Callahan: 18:06

Yes. Getting curious, getting curious. And there, I I just keep the word discomfort always comes up in these moments, right? Because to be curious about this saboteur, this judge of ours, was a time when I was working with my internal family systems therapist and things are going pretty well in life. And he was asking like, Pete, do you really like how come you still coming here? Like, what do you really need me anymore? And I was like, I told him, well, actually this morning I was out for a walk. I was wearing my daughter, right? So she was napping on me as a little baby a few years ago, and one of my neighbors had left their trash cans out on the sidewalk. Which as a type, A proactive human who's like going out after the trash truck to pull mine right in. And this is like two days later, just immediately brought up this really strong frustration to me. I wound up throwing their trash bins into their front yard. They were empty. I didn't make a mess, but like just getting them outta my way, I'm like, you're way, you're gonna wake up my daughter. Like just the, and it really fascinating and I kept walking. I was like, wow. was not an appropriate response for the situation. Like, it's just he was like, oh, I see. Yeah, you really do need some more work, don't you? That's a strong inner inner judge you've got there. So there's so many, there's so many parts of us that all I'm, you know, there's a positive intention. It helps me take care of, you know, my home and these other things, but it also can do harm to myself, to others, right? Unnecessary behavior that's just not actually getting me the results that I want, which in this case, I don't even know Really what I want is to accept human imperfection and acknowledge these people might have something else going on in their lives more important than their trash bins, and that's fine.

Michelle Marin: 19:42

Right. You know, it's funny when you, and that's a funny story. When I recognize where I find myself judging, like I've done all this inner work and I see people get in my life that get so petty about things. And so in other people's business, and I find myself going, why are you so judgy? Like, I'm judging them on their judgments, and I kind of laugh at myself inside, like, okay, see what you're doing there. So yeah, it's uh,

Peter Callahan: 20:06

good meta

Track 1: 20:06

it's

Peter Callahan: 20:07

right? It's like I'm judging you for judging them. Like, shouldn't we just all bring each other compassion and I, I totally resonate. Yes, exactly.

Michelle Marin: 20:14

More and more I'm trying to get more, uh, in my own business, like that term, mind, your own business is so much more resonant these days for me because it's like, oh yeah, that's actually really healthy.

Peter Callahan: 20:26

yes. Awesome, Michelle. Well, I, I would love to get to your Venn diagram in a minute and really talk about, I think we've already started well on some of the practical practices, right? How do we actually build more confidence? But let's, we'll really dive into that in a moment, but I do just wanna acknowledge. When I look at your profile and hear about being a sales leader and, and all the success you've had and like we talked about at the beginning, right? We both wear these images of privilege on some level. my first inclination, and I've heard lots of other women especially talk about this, is like you come off as very confident, as extremely competent and caring and Sort of, you know, Brene Brown via Roshi, Joan Halifax, soft front, strong back. I'm curious and I'm open and I'm humble, but you over either, and I've got a lot going for me. And you, you do exude a lot of that in a wonderful way. So I'm just curious how, you know, this, this, this balance of. Being both strong while also being vulnerable and as someone who's had degrees of external success, and I'm sure ups and downs and ebbs and flows like all of us. But I'm just curious, I guess, how to confidence for yourself and where that lack of confidence, what you've being, what we were just talking about, noticed in yourself, what parts of you have sort of to that imposter or lack of confidence that can come up.

Michelle Marin: 21:48

Yeah, I mean for years and years it would be different situations where I was always putting on that phrase face, that positive face, the putting on this power suit, doing all of those things and realizing. That the confidence wasn't actually there behind it. It wasn't certain areas where if you said, Hey, I'm, I moved to California at 24 years old and just packed my car and went, I, I don't know where I got the courage to do that. But then in other ways, I felt like I was an imposter. So, for example, there was, I was working for one food service company and I had had an opportunity from someone who knew me. He was, um, the sales, the VP of sales, and he says, Hey, I want you on my team. And I thought, that is way, I mean, he gave me this huge raise, this, this big bump in pay. And I thought, now I have to prove myself. So for years, I was just doing the race, getting on the plane, doing all the things. I was in complete burnout mode, trying to prove myself and realizing if I'd actually slowed down. And got honest with myself with the work, I would've done f, I mean, my numbers were great, but I would've been less burnout and I think I would've had better numbers, better relationships, you know, more customer connection. So all of that striving was actually, it was good, but not great.

Peter Callahan: 23:04

Yeah.

Michelle Marin: 23:04

So little by little I'm like, this has to stop. And I got to a point, I remember when it was four o'clock in the morning on a Monday morning, and I was supposed to fly to Dallas. And that Thursday before I flew home and it ended up being a 19 hour day between hitting two cities, flight delays, all the things, four o'clock on a Monday morning comes and I go, I'm not going. I'm just not, I just drew a line in the sand that, that moment, and I called. I sent a message to the broker office saying, sorry, I can't make the meeting. And I called and canceled my flight and I went back to sleep and I'm like, This, you know, at some point you just had to draw a line going, I can only be so exhausted for so long for money. And I started to recognize, okay, let's peel it back a little bit. I ended up changing my job and uh, just diving deeper into what's actually showing up, what's driving me in this way.

Peter Callahan: 23:55

Wow. Thank you for sharing. What a, what a moment. That's a lot of. for 4:00 AM That's and clarity with yourself. I'm, I earned so much self-compassion that, like you said, I was just, you were honest with yourself. Any idea, I'm guessing that didn't come out of What were some of the inputs that you think may have helped fuel that confidence in that moment? Do, do you know?

Michelle Marin: 24:18

Yeah, and it's interesting because at that moment it, it, it showed up as anger resentment, and prior to that, I had started learning transcendental meditation, tmm. And as I started learning to dive deeper into my meditation, it was like, wow, there's this deeper well here, and I, I can find this joy and this passion and it doesn't feel like being squashed anymore. So as I was doing more meditation and in making that a, a healthier daily practice, I think that was where the tipping point started to happen.

Peter Callahan: 24:51

Amazing. Thank you so much for sharing. And you said you had driven out to California and then so where, where have you landed we probably could have started here, but where are you in the world today?

Michelle Marin: 25:02

Oh, okay. Yeah. I live in Connecticut, Farmington, Connecticut when I moved to California, I realized that I was living in an area where, Everyone was into fitness. They had big college degrees, they had all these things. They had big careers. And I grew up where my mom was a cleaning, she was a live-in cleaning lady. So we had a very unique situation that did not foster confidence. Let me tell you. We're I, I was always told you're, you're just the cleaning lady's daughter. So when you grow up just believing you're here and everyone else is kind of here, and then you move to an area where this. You know, nice beach area, and then all of a sudden everyone feels like they're here. So you're always just, how do I, how do I raise myself up? And I wasn't leaning into my own strengths, like, Hey, wait, I have X, Y, and Z, and now I can foster these other things and build that confidence from the inside out.

Peter Callahan: 25:52

Yes. Wow. Wow, amazing. So from the cleaning lady's daughter to corporate, I don't know if executive feels like the word, then, how long was your corporate career and then how long ago did you make the, the switch?'cause I know this is, we've talked about this with, with other guests too, of just, again, the confidence, the courage to, to make that leap. I'm just curious

Michelle Marin: 26:14

Right.

Peter Callahan: 26:15

and Yeah.

Michelle Marin: 26:16

Yeah. So I was in corporate for 20 years and I left in February of this year. So I was coaching positive intelligence on the side and realizing what an impact it was having on my life and on my sales and on all the, on my relationships. And I said, all right, I wanna take the leap of faith and do this full time.

Peter Callahan: 26:35

Wow. Was there, was there a moment when I'm just, I'm always curious, like, you know, was there a, a final tipping point, or I'm sure it was like you said, you've been doing this training and doing this work on yourself for a long time doing these practices. So what, was there an instance that led you to say like, all right, I'm going for it now.

Michelle Marin: 26:51

It was kind of a, a little bit of a f a few month process of, I was going through, I'm just wrapping up c t I training, so I'm going, okay, I wanna be a coach. How do I get from here to there and do it full time? So I was trying to find ways and I had an opportunity. To, uh, actually at work, they wanted to offer me a role as VP of National Sales for the area. And that was a great opportunity, would've looked phenomenal on the resume. And I realized that sounds awful. And then I had an opportunity to go do sales for another coach who was quite successful. So I said, you know what, I'm gonna take this leap of faith and go in this very different direction. And I found out pretty quickly that, hey, wait a minute. It wasn't Particularly resonating and I wasn't building my own brand and my own presence, so I decided to just continue on on my own.

Peter Callahan: 27:39

Wow. Wow. So there was this kind of interim opportunity helped give you the courage, but then it wound up. being the right move, and you were able to, it sounds like, acknowledge that pretty quickly and say like, okay, well this, now I've already taken the leap, so let me Continue jumping

Michelle Marin: 27:54

Right. That's the thing I thought, you know, and the positive intelligence work has helped so much because the saboteurs could have a field day with all of that. And what I like about that is that in the past I would've made myself wrong. And now I just have a lot of compassion. And, uh, a coach actually said to me once I. You know, it takes a lot of courage and I was like, wow. Yeah, it actually does. So when I can see it from that perspective, like Brene Brown says, if you're not in the arena, then I don't know that I really need to hear what you have to say. So not to, not as an arrogance, but just as a wait a minute, I can just show up and do my best and know that every day I'm learning something.

Peter Callahan: 28:35

Yes. This idea that that happens contains a gift or an opportunity, there's something to be learned. I.

Michelle Marin: 28:44

I posted yesterday on LinkedIn my, the quote from Byron Keating, this is happening for us. Everything in life is happening for us, not to us. So right there, it takes away that victim mentality. And then she goes on to say, you don't have to like it. It just makes life easier.

Peter Callahan: 29:00

Right, right. and I love that things are, this is happening for me, not to me. And you know, it's the hardest to be honest, if I like, lose someone I care about or, you know, have some significant illness or, you know, there's, there's things where that feels hard to touch into. And yet over time, it's like every client who's lost their job. I can't think of one person who I've spoken or a couple years later who hasn't said, I am so grateful that that happened. It just, it hasn't occurred where someone said like, oh, I can't believe, still can't believe I lost that job that I loved. That doesn't happen. We don't lose those jobs. Right. Just, it's very rare. Anyway, so things are happening for us, and I, and I work on that with leaders as well. Like I, you know, I really wanna let this person go, but they're not contributing the way we need to, and we've worked with them and. It's just not working. But they're, they have such a good attitude or they're, I like them. They're such a good person, and I love, I'm like, I hear you. I totally get it. Mm if it's not flowing smoothly, if they're not contributing or collaborating, it's not clicking. Not only is it best for, for you, the team and the organization, it's also very likely best for that person because they're, it's, they're not in the rhythm that's, that's gonna feel best for them to fulfill their potential, contribute at a level that feels meaningful for them. So, as much as it's.it's hard in the short term, just like conflict and relationship is uncomfortable. The opportunity for connection that the opportunity for. Space to open up in that person's life for them to explore a little bit more. And hopefully that's, you know, they're welcome to give us a call in those moments, right? Or please reach out to someone, I guess is my anyone, particularly a third party who doesn't just want your safety and security more than anything else. Who actually caress about your, you know, flourishing and connecting with your values and what's important, and not just getting by and surviving, which is what often are most loved. Friends and family members can, can be oriented towards. So this neutral

Track 1: 30:51

I know.

Peter Callahan: 30:52

I just value deeply.

Michelle Marin: 30:54

Yeah, they, you know, the, not the people who wanna just commiserate with you. And it reminds me that I was working with my coach a few months back and she said, who's your, who is your success team? And I was like, huh. And it's not actually my parents and my best friend from college who I thought maybe, and I'm like, nah, she's, saboteurs are stronger than mine. So she wants to bring up all the worries and all the what ifs. So that's not helpful. So who are the people that go. All right, let's go. You know, that's where the success team can be so helpful. And that's what a coach does too, right?

Peter Callahan: 31:27

Yes, exactly. Wonderful. Wonderful. Awesome. Well, maybe this is a somewhat natural transition more into this, idea of confidence. And you tell me, do you think it makes sense to, to dive into the characteristics of a confident leader, your three part Venn diagram here, or where do you wanna start?

Michelle Marin: 31:46

Yeah, let's dive into that. I think it's, uh, I feel like it's a good place to, to go in. I, I have some things I could say about that

Peter Callahan: 31:53

Great. Great. And if folks wanna follow along at home, preferably not if you're driving, but uh, can you remind us of the website and where we could find this image?

Michelle Marin: 32:02

yes. Inner fitness coaching.com. And then you go to the Work with Me page. So it's toward the bottom of that. And this came up, I mean, I put this together maybe a week ago. It's something that I was like, wait, let's dive a little deeper into what are the characteristics of a competent leader and First thing I came up with is clarity, because what I found that as a people pleaser and someone with really strong saboteurs inside, like if it's not a kind environment, if there's not some self-compassion, it's really hard to get honest with ourselves. So when we really, there's, there should almost be this beginning part, this pre-work of self empathy and compassion. Because when we can do that, then we can get clear and we can get honest with ourselves.

Peter Callahan: 32:46

Yes.

Michelle Marin: 32:47

And that's when we can look at, okay, part of this clarity is getting clear on our goals. And then there's this idea of knowing, you know, what are our strengths? Because we're, as humans, we're so busy trying to figure out what's wrong with us, that when we go, wait, there's actually all these things that are really great about us we can lean into those. cause there's no perfect human right? Like we can't hit all the marks all the time. And then in this is that ability to quiet our inner critic. So I feel like that's the first part of the Venn diagram is that clarity piece.

Peter Callahan: 33:16

Wonderful. So clarity and then of the bullets underneath, clear on your goals. do I want? Knowing your strengths, that be a simple exercise of writing those down. I might also recommend you wanna spend 20 or so dollars to jump on Clifton's strengths, check out your, some of your top strengths that tool. and then ability to quiet your inner critic, which is a lot about what we're talking about with the, the saboteurs and these little micro practices that you can do, which maybe we'll we'll talk a little bit more about after we go through. But the next one is then emotional intelligence, right?

Michelle Marin: 33:50

Yes. Yeah, emotional intelligence, and that is Uh, resilience, right? The, the, the willingness to be resilient when a setback happens. How do you have that comeback and how, what's the time length in there that, how quickly can that happen? So that resilience is important. Authenticity is part of that. It's like, how do we tap into our true selves? And again, it's that willingness to go inside and go, what actually resonates with me?

Peter Callahan: 34:17

Yes.

Michelle Marin: 34:18

And that ability to be self-regulated, you know, to. Just check in with yourself and go, you know, not every day is gonna be the same. So, you know, and for me, for example, I know that mornings are my, that's my time to go. That's when I work my, do my best work. So when you recognize that, okay, that's happening, and then my energy slows later in the day and just starting to regulate that, oh wait, now I feel like I need a break. Because we can tend to wanna, or I can tend to wanna go, go, go, go, go, go. And then go, wait a minute. It's actually better if I slow down right now for a few minutes. The third circle of this is boldness. I just happen to love this word because as a child where you didn't really have a say, the idea that I can just speak my truth or be honest feels like boldness. You know, some people, boldness comes really easily. but it's a willingness to have some well-defined boundaries and say, that doesn't actually work for me. I love that phrase. It makes it an easy way to say what's true for you, being unapologetic. You know, so many of us are, oh, I'm sorry. Oh, I didn't, I'm sorry. I, how often do we hear? I'm sorry. But it's just recognizing that I, I made a conscious effort to stop saying that all the time because, you know, I can actually own my actions and then I can clean'em up if I need to. and then the self trusting, which is such a huge, huge piece, right? That we talked about that earlier. That willingness to go, actually, this is what I feel is most important. And to take that bold action on it, not knowing where it's gonna go. Right? Let's say for example, in starting a coaching practice, I'm sure you realize that there are so many techniques practices, uh, business strategist, Web designers, people who have the latest, greatest marketing thing. Some people say you have to post on social media 10 times a day, and some people say you're crazy. You never have to do it at all. And somewhere in between is probably what's best. It's maddening, right? So I'm just like, I need to start trusting myself and move boldly in my career based on what I think is actually true for me.

Peter Callahan: 36:18

Beautiful, beautiful. Yes, that listening and trusting ourselves it strikes me that this is the last bullet under your three categories, so clarity, emotional intelligence, and boldness. And like you said at the top, it's almost like

36:32

Self-compassion.

Peter Callahan: 36:33

Is is needed to then create self-trust to then try and move toward each of these things. It's so interesting how interconnect, you know, we try and break this human experience down to these parts and I love this Venn diagram that you have.'cause it really visually shows how much all of this is overlapping and there's so much intersection between another of these. strength skills lives in a vacuum, right? They all interplay with each other and we're all just so complex, and yet we can just throw our hands up and say, well, I'll never,

Michelle Marin: 37:01

Yeah.

Peter Callahan: 37:02

myself out. How can I get to the bottom of this or the inverse? And me, I'll this, like, how do you recommend getting started? So if someone's listening and this is resonating, and alright, lemme check out these characteristics of a confident leader on inner fitness coaching.com. Like, what, where might be some good places to start do you think?

Michelle Marin: 37:20

Yeah, I, I would say, I mean, going to the website and seeing, you know, or someone can set up a call with me too on discovering your saboteurs and just having that conversation, I can send the assessment and say, okay, it takes five minutes to take it. Take the assessment and then you go, oh, okay, I see I have a strong pleaser victim. And, uh, hypervigilant that one that's like, oh no, the shoe's gonna drop.

Peter Callahan: 37:44

of mine

Michelle Marin: 37:45

And then you start to recognize, yeah, I see those in my life. And then we can start to see where things are triggering us in our lives. And then we, this, the awareness starts to grow, and then we can start to use little practices, like just even if it's 10 seconds of following our breath or rubbing our fingertips together. Perhaps it's we're in a business meeting and we're wiggling our toes, and it's just those little things that bring us back to the present moment to go, everything's actually okay in this moment. It's just my mind that wants to spin off. And if there's something wrong, and the more that we can kind of break the pattern of those that talk, you know, that talk track that happens, then we can start to move in another direction.

Peter Callahan: 38:27

Yes. Wonderful.

Michelle Marin: 38:29

And I like what Byron Katie says, she says, she talks about, she's like, it's not your thinking, it's the thinking, like you were saying earlier. I like how she says it. It's the thinking because we don't actually own it. It just shows up and it just keeps populating and running. So, uh, it means there's less attachment to it. And to me that's soothing.

Peter Callahan: 38:50

Soothing. Yes. Less attachment creating. Part of what I'm hearing is really this creating more space. Between what's happening, especially internally and how we're it, right? She's going trying to go from reacting to responding like, okay, I'm feeling really frustrated at the way this person's speaking to me right now. To me, this is in my life where the rubber hits the road in the hardest moments. Like, oh, even just, just earlier. And this afternoon, you know, my wife said to me, oh, you walked downstairs and you woke the baby up again. I didn't know I woke the baby up the first time, you know? So immediately I just felt this inner fury, mostly it myself. And just like guilt, like all, all I'm trying to do is support my family and help, you know, the baby get the sleep they need so mom can get the stuff she needs to do. Done. It's her last week of maternity leave, so you can only imagine the, know, preparation we're trying to do to kids now. And yet, I didn't do that intentionally. She wasn't trying to, Correct me in any way. She was just letting me know so I could change, you know, try and do something different, but it just immediately felt activating and I, you know, I could unpack where I think that comes from. Right? But either way, wherever it comes from, there's a positive intention. I want to do well by my family and let, let Leander sleep a little more, and yet I'm not. And I wanna, I was gonna say, I'm not fully connected with that. That's not really true. I think there's just other conditioning. There are things that can get in the way that are You know, not trying to help right. That I can be grateful, like, oh, thank you self for tr for wanting to do, for caring so much. I, I was thinking about it when it happened and I really noticed it earlier and actually just went into the garage and yelled for a minute and just let it out. Like I just yell, shake, you know, kind of these trauma response things like, all right, let me let this outta my body, and I come back and I feel much better and it's okay. And so I didn't harm anyone. I didn't yell at even any, like, I didn't beat myself up. I just like, okay, let me release this and come back. And just being able to, to and recognize that, you know, again, there's this positive intention. I'm doing my best, these parts of me are doing their best and it's, can be really uncomfortable. And yet going back to creating space and being able to recognize and notice, not remove, but almost allow to move through is the way I think about it so that I can then, Choose my response instead of put that energy right on Mackenzie, you know, send it back to my wife. That's not fair to her at all.

Michelle Marin: 41:11

Right. And I think that, uh, by doing this inner work, we start to recognize as we have compassion for ourselves, we can have compassion for others. And go, wow. Just the way I react, other people react and underneath, like we can look at the intention underneath is that, wait, she doesn't want the baby to wake up because she still has things to do because she wants to make you dinner. Like as we,

Peter Callahan: 41:32

Exactly.

Michelle Marin: 41:32

be, we peel back the layers and go, oh my God, we're all just doing our best. And I, I said that to myself the other day. I was like, I'm just doing my best every day and. You know, that removes that victim mentality and that make wrong, I like to call it, you know, I used to carry this invisible bat that I was always bashing myself over the head with and just ruminating like, I shouldn't have done this. I should have said this. Why shouldn't have eaten that? You know, all of those things that, oh, they're so exhausting.

Peter Callahan: 42:02

Right, Yes. And yet, one of the challenges is if we, you know, aren't in victim mentality and like, oh, this was done to me, then We're starting to take responsibility for what happens, which is where I find this self-compassion and recognizing that these parts of me are also doing their best to get my underlying needs met, right? To feel a sense of fulfillment, connection,

Track 1: 42:25

Mm-hmm.

Peter Callahan: 42:26

you know, all the underlying needs that, that our behaviors live on top of and recognize that I'm not wrong or bad or evil for those occurring in me, or that's, it's not. My fault per se, is that, because I think it could be really scary for people to start to say like, I can choose my response. And you know, the reality is there's still moments when I don't choose my response in the moment. I'm much more to go back to resilience. I'm much more resilient now, so I don't.

Track 1: 42:54

Mm-hmm.

Peter Callahan: 42:54

day, and certainly there's harder days and lower energy days, but I don't believe in a bad day for myself anymore. There's more challenging moments that I can then bounce back from, and as we've been talking about, I think for me, being honest with myself to say that slowing down is what I need right now. I do that more than I used to and I'm better at it, but it's still so counter-cultural that it's such a deep rebellion on this level for me. Michelle, I'm curious how you relate to, I think you spoke to this as well, to be able to, say just feels inefficient. Like all I've got more that I want to do. Why the heck to your sales example before? Why would I do less? That's not gonna get me more sales to do less right now. Is it?

Michelle Marin: 43:35

right? Like we get to work smarter when we slow down and, but my brain wants to just keep going because it's like, well, if you do all the things. Of course that'll work. And, and that is insanity, really. It's like, well, I'm doing all the things, but 80% of them are not what actually is moving the needle or what actually needs to happen. So there's al, there's so much freedom in going, wait, I get to slow down and have better results and enjoy my life more. Okay, sign me up and then I forget and I get back into my race.

Peter Callahan: 44:04

And that's why, you know, one of the translations for mindfulness is remembering like, how can we, so maybe that's a good place to, to start to wrap up a little bit, Michelle, I'm curious to hear a little bit more, I think we've talked about a bunch of practices, but just more what helps you to remember, maybe I'm curious to hear some of these phrases you spoke to earlier that you have, you know, almost like an intention for the day or an affirmation. do you How do you come back to, how do you remember to do it and to begin with, and then how do you remember to come back to those phrases?

Michelle Marin: 44:35

Yeah, so through positive intelligence on the app, there's daily reminders, like there's little practices throughout two minute practices throughout the day. So I'm in the advanced program, so it comes up every day, five, I think there's five a day, so that helps with the reminders. Another way is if you're not in positive intelligence, just Setting little alarms just with a nice little jingle. It's a, you know, something that's a soft reminder. And sometimes I've had that happen where you're in a meeting and, and the alarm goes off and you just turn it off quick. But even in that moment, you can spend 10 seconds being aware.

Peter Callahan: 45:08

Yeah.

Michelle Marin: 45:08

And uh, that inner smile like, oh yeah, I get to check in. No one knows it,

Peter Callahan: 45:13

Yes.

Michelle Marin: 45:13

So it's that punctuating throughout the day, even if it's 10 seconds to two minutes coming back as often as we can and setting those little reminders. So in the morning I do my 20 minute meditation. I don't do tmm anymore. I just do quiet meditation. And then it's like, it's like I get to pick which cake I get to eat that day. So I go, okay, what is my practice for today? And it might be creating space so that in creating space, it's like, wait there. I feel a lot of busyness right now. I can actually create space for this, or I feel some disruption in my, you know, I feel some angst I can create space for that. So whatever that topic is, I'll usually write it out and put it on a post-it and put it on my counter. So as I'm walking by, I remind myself and, uh, so I just have a little reminders throughout my day to be able to come back over and over again. And just whether it's being mindful, the, the food that I'm tasting, Or something that I'm seeing in nature, just paying close attention to the leaves and having gratitude. So it's, uh, it's definitely a practice and finding what resonates, you know, everyone's a little bit different and having some accountability I feel is so, so important.

Peter Callahan: 46:21

Yeah. So you talked to, you spoke to this, this text, whether you had, that's nightly, you said every, every Now. How long has that been going on for?

Michelle Marin: 46:29

over two and a half years. And it started out with me and a good friend of mine, and then we added another person who went through the program and loved it and then another person. And now it's kind of like our tight-knit group. And every night like we're buds. We went on a, a girl's weekend a few months ago and it's so nurturing to be able to have this inner cir. We call her a sacred circle that we can check in, we can lean into ourselves, into each other. One of her husband passed a couple months ago of cancer, another one's husband, How you know is going through cancer treatment. It's like we support each other in a way that's loving and honest and knowing that it's a messy journey and we can, it just keeps coming back to the self-compassion and compassion for each other. really beautiful.

Peter Callahan: 47:11

does. Sounds beautiful. Yeah. And, and so have you, have you ever missed a day, like do you extend compassion when someone doesn't respond to the text too? Is that okay to I.

Michelle Marin: 47:22

Well, it, it so happens that the next, like if you forget that night or you're busy and then it's, someone will reply in the morning, but I rarely think of a time that someone didn't, that someone missed a day, where that really, it really means that much to us.

Peter Callahan: 47:36

Amazing. That's great.

Michelle Marin: 47:38

Yeah. So, and I don't know if I would've come this far in the work that I've done if I didn't have that accountability. So I'm gonna go, oh wait, I'm gonna check in tonight. So I'm, it's like I'm on this high alert to always look for, what am I noticing? What am I, what's showing up for me?

Peter Callahan: 47:53

Yes. I, that's great. So it's really helped to sort of set your Raz, I've, I've heard it called reticular activating zone, I think, or something like that. It's like, what were I.

Michelle Marin: 48:04

oh,

Peter Callahan: 48:05

right this, trying to, I dunno if overcome is the right word, but work with our negativity bias and start to reprogram a little bit. And so I hear phone reminders and I just love using technology in this way, right? So it's like, oh, I've and like, what's going on here? You know, it's, oh, right. Remembering to breathe, or like you said, just Actually stare at nature. And I just heard the, research around awe has been coming out more prevalently. I've really been reading and hearing a lot more about awe as an emotion and a, an experience and

Michelle Marin: 48:37

Oh, all the word all. Yeah.

Peter Callahan: 48:39

Yeah. A w e and I've heard it as an acronym, awareness, weight, and exhale. I, I don't know the, the who created this practice, but not mine, so feel free to Google it. Awareness. So noticing the leaf or, yeah, I could just look outside right now and see the color contrast of all this green against a gray sky. Taking, taking a few moments, like not rushing. I've heard like 10, 10 or 20 seconds, which can be hard. I notice my mind want to go to something else, right? Like, okay, I two seconds is enough. And then just staying with it. Wait, wait. And then allow ourselves to exhale. Just give that long and often.

Michelle Marin: 49:15

Yeah, that's great.

Peter Callahan: 49:16

I can often feel like a physical tingling or sensation of just kind of letting the, not trying, doing our best not to label, but just take in looking at, you know? Or feeling like, oh wow, that's pretty amazing that this exists, or this is how the world works.

Michelle Marin: 49:29

I love that.

Peter Callahan: 49:30

So, yeah, mic

Michelle Marin: 49:31

I'm gonna steal that.

Peter Callahan: 49:32

awe is one of the terms I heard come up. So, yeah, pretty incredible. And it's, and it's the theme, I mean, so much, so much comes back to slowing down, and I would even say the r o I of slowing down the return on investment, as you've referenced several times. Like, all right, I'm gonna take a little bit of time now that's gonna give me so much more, clarity, intelligence, boldness, to. To listen to myself, be more honest with myself, hopefully start to feel into what authentic for me actually looks and feels like. Knowing it's, all an experiment and no one else knows so you

Michelle Marin: 50:09

It might,

Peter Callahan: 50:10

but it's only up to us to to discern internally what's what's right for us.

Michelle Marin: 50:15

isn't it amazing? Like I could just have stacks of books all over the place and like Ecker totally says like just being present will get you more than any of reading Those books would, you

Peter Callahan: 50:25

yet

Michelle Marin: 50:26

it's a great

Peter Callahan: 50:27

so I don't know what that says.

Michelle Marin: 50:28

they have pointers and then go practice

Peter Callahan: 50:31

Yes. And now, honestly, so much of my journey, Michelle comes back to, know, I started, I up the seven Habits of Highly Effective People was kind of really what opened the door for me to fully dive into this sort of personal growth development world. And yet hundred or so books to actually start practicing things like I just really, read several hundred of those since to help remind me to keep practicing, I think. But really is fascinating to recognize, and again, the technology piece, all we need to do. Try out 10% happier or Headspace or Calm or one of the 10,000 other apps, find positive intelligence, find one that works for us and just try it out for a couple months. I see. See if we can get it going and if not, try something else. And we don't have to be robots. I love the term ish. Yeah. I do this every day or so

Michelle Marin: 51:21

daily ish

Peter Callahan: 51:22

Like we don't have to be, some of us seem to have more discipline on these things than others, and it's okay not to, but it's. This and this intention to,

Michelle Marin: 51:31

Yeah, be careful. Yeah. Find, like, give it some energy behind it and not get too, you know, shiny object ish because one of the, one of the saboteurs is restless and it's that one where it's like, oh wait, oh wait, oh wait. And then we really don't accomplish much of anything because it's hard to slow down when we're chasing the next thing. So finding that balance right. Of like, learning, doing, learning, doing, being, doing.

Peter Callahan: 51:56

Being doing, learning, doing. Ah, absolutely. Thank a helpful reminder. Is it one or the

Michelle Marin: 52:02

Yeah. This is a right.

Peter Callahan: 52:05

Cool. Awesome. Is that you wanted to talk about, Michelle? I'm just, you know, aware of our time and I'll let you get on with your day, but is there anywhere we didn't get to that you wanted to add in?

Michelle Marin: 52:15

No, I feel like this has been a phenomenal conversation. If anyone wants to know more about Positive Intelligence, I run pods regularly and, uh, it's, it's fantastic. So, uh, I'm available through the website if anyone has questions.com.

Peter Callahan: 52:33

And put that in the show notes when I publish, hopefully in a few weeks here for us. And so folks should be easy to find. And yeah, again, just. I'm really grateful. Michelle, thank you so much for coming on. It's really been wonderful to, to get to share some of your wisdom and journey.

Michelle Marin: 52:49

Yeah, same here. Thank you so much.

Peter Callahan: 52:51

a lot. Take care.

Track 1: 52:52

Bye.

Peter Callahan: 52:55

All right. I'm so grateful to Michelle for being with us for this conversation on the fresh perspectives podcast. And as always, truly grateful to you for sticking with us and listening. If you enjoyed it and found it useful, I'd be really grateful if you'd be willing to take a moment to subscribe. Offer any feedback and of course, share it with a friend. If you think they might benefit from listening. Thanks so much for your curiosity. Wishing you courage and compassion. Take care.