Beyond Body Work: How Being With Our Pain Is Healing | Tim Tynan

I am so grateful to Tim for joining me for this conversation!  Please check out his website to learn more or reach out: https://www.sanctuarycenterct.com/

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Transcript

Timothy Tynan: 0:05

have the courage to step back from humanity just a little bit to see the way of things, to see how it all works together and it and it doesn't mean that there aren't actions that need to be taken. It's just a matter of when we take those actions, are they coming from a place that's gonna bring more connection or they coming from a disconnection with ourselves that are projecting our disconnection onto the world, which in turn is creating more disconnection. Obviously this is going way beyond body work,

Peter Callahan: 0:46

Hello. And welcome to the fresh perspectives podcast. Where our intention is growing together. And leading with love. I'm Peter Callahan and I believe we each have incredible capacity. To continue to learn and evolve. As individuals and as a species. And breaking away more alone. And a lot less fear. Into the world. And our daily lives. Changing can be hard. And I found that even if nothing changes. Having the courage to see our challenges from a fresh perspective. Can change everything. I'm so glad you're here. And I'm so glad today to have my good friend, Timothy Timon. On with me. Tim is a body worker and structural energetic therapists. And we'll be talking some about that today, though. I look forward to having them on more. We'll be unpacking, but. Really excited to give you a flavor of Tim today. Uh, he really enjoys focusing on the sematic relationship between our bodies, our emotions, and our consciousness. He uses intentional bodywork to help clients to access parts of themselves. That have been unconscious. Leading to physical slash emotional slash spiritual self. This helps them to be more empowered in their lives. Constantly learning. Tim is also in the process of becoming a trained Rezo path to be able to communicate with the body even further on a vibrational level. I've been working with Tim for many years, and I'm really excited to share this conversation with you today. TIm and I. Cover a range of topics, including massage and bodywork and structural energetic therapy. Intuition How we describe our experience. We talk about what Tia means by feeling is the language of our body. And we're in a society that's largely based on thoughts. It's really interesting. Tim share some of his own struggles with chronic pain and how he came to this work. And we really dive into all kinds of. Topics challenges that we're facing as a species. Again, thanks. Well, welcome Tim. It's wonderful to have you with me today.

Timothy Tynan: 3:12

Thanks for having me, Peter.

Peter Callahan: 3:14

So I know part of our intention today is to introduce maybe this different topic to folks when it comes to personal development, growth, healing, and this work that you do that I've been very grateful over the last few years to get to experience with you, and I'm so excited to share it with the entire world, or both people who are listening right now one way or the other, and.

Timothy Tynan: 3:39

If we're lucky,

Peter Callahan: 3:40

So it's true. It might just be one of our wives, not both of them, but But If you could maybe just start us off with how you came to this work and how it's not simply massage,

Timothy Tynan: 3:56

Yeah, I mean these kind of stories can be long-winded and go, go forever, but, you know, as, as package as I can make it. I first off came into the healing world just because of my own, my own health and having autoimmune conditions and kinda was searching for like what was gonna be, I knew I wanted to work in physical healing, just didn't know what it was. And my mom actually started doing massage so I was like, ah, I'm gonna like, kinda like watch her process and like seeing, reading her books and all that stuff. that time I had no understanding of massage was and kind of typical one,

Peter Callahan: 4:29

Yeah, something we share moms who do massage. My mom's also a massage

Timothy Tynan: 4:32

right, Yeah, but pretty quickly as she started going through her process, I was noticing that this is much more like complex than I ever knew before. So I actually ended up going to, to massage school and after that started working in typical spa, things like that. And, um, but then I eventually started working for a chiropractor, which was great because I got to work with a lot of different like, people with like pain and and things like that. But pretty quickly I started to notice was like people kept kind of coming in with the same stuff over and over again, you know, so it would come with back pain and it's like, yep, they get better. And then a couple weeks would happen, it'd come back then pretty easily was able to notice like. More, often than not when somebody had some sort of chronic pain and very much like, kind of like your barber, your massage therapist ends up being like your, like your, actual therapist in a lot of ways. People just start telling you stuff. And it was pretty easy to recognize that like these people are coming in with chronic pain, almost always have some crisis going on in their life. So I'm like, okay, well you know, this is great what we're doing. We're doing like orthopedic massage, we're doing, you know, the typical stuff that you would do for pain. And then, but I was like, there's this thing in there just like there has to be something else out there. and one of my colleagues at the time, she was taking the training in structural energetic therapy and I became her Guinea pig when she was practicing. And

Peter Callahan: 6:05

a colleague that was nearby, like you just happened to have some more, like the universe. Just put this human

Timothy Tynan: 6:10

yeah, it's so crazy how like, I was, about to take the advanced training. It's it within Massage World, there's this orthopedic training that's like known as like being like the, like, you know, at least Massage Co. They like said that this is like the elite of the elite orthopedic massage. And I also go do that because I wanted, I was working with a chiropractor and then once she started working on me, I was like, oh, this is different. I always say like, the first time I got up off the table, I. I felt like I had tree trunks for legs

Peter Callahan: 6:37

Hmm.

Timothy Tynan: 6:38

for like the analogy, like, like I just felt like I literally was like growing out of the earth. It was the most visceral sensation of being grounded I've ever experienced before. And at that time I had no idea of like the depth of the work, but I just knew like, okay, this is, this is the thing that I need to take. so just happened to reach out and look and, and at that time, me and my, me and Sandy were actually thinking of moving to another country. So I was like, wasn't even sure if I was gonna, like, should I take this thing? Should I not take this six? I remember actually calling like the, the set instructor woman who puts together the stuff you know, can I do this in Costa Rica? Can I do this in Panama? She's like, well, there's people in pain everywhere. Like, just do it. Just, just give it a shot. And typically all the trainings are done in Florida, but enough two months later they were doing a training in Rhode Island. So I'm like, oh, in the same town that I actually went to school in Rhode Island and have a lot of, negative energy around that town.

Peter Callahan: 7:39

Can, can I ask that Since I went to school in Kingston, Rhode Island at URI where? What town are we talking about?

Timothy Tynan: 7:44

I was in Warwick.

Peter Callahan: 7:46

I worked in Warwick for many years.

Timothy Tynan: 7:47

Yeah. it's just a weird time in my life and I just have like a, it's like one of those things that's like I'd ever, I just don't wanna go back there. And of course, like training for this thing that I want to go do is in Warwick of all places. But the work, I mean, the training itself was just, holy crap, holy crap. It wasn't even a training, it was like a retreat to go to the training. I mean, you've had a session, so it's like the sessions themselves could be powerful, but now you've line up, now imagine you line up like six other people who are receiving it at the same time. So the energy's just like through the roof. And my own progression as a person going through the training was profound. You know, I remember when I first went there, like the structure of my body, I was like a little, I was like kind of a coward into myself, and I just like a different, wholly different person. I. just resonated with it to the point where I just took everything they could offer. I took, you know, what we call phase one, phase two, phase three, advanced work. I retook everything over again.'cause it was just like, this is, this is the stuff. and actually, the more I've learned it, the more layers of it keep peeling away. Where at first it, to me it was just a physical experience. Like, oh, this is cool, this idea. So the whole idea is that we kind of essentially like unwind the body. You know, you kind of wind your body up like a coil, you kind of collapse into yourself and we're essentially unwinding it. So I kind of pictured it more from the physical perspective. And then over time I've started to understand more of how that deals with our emotional and lack of a better term spiritual development. which is like open up a whole new Pandora's box of like how body work and specifically the work that I do, because this is. My craft can assist people in their like mental, emotional and spiritual development, which is that's another talk I can go down for another two and a half hours, really

Peter Callahan: 9:39

Totally.

Timothy Tynan: 9:39

but yeah, that's kind of how I got here. Yeah.

Peter Callahan: 9:42

Awesome. Thank you Tim. Thank you. I'm gonna restrain my curiosity to unpack and ask like a dozen more questions But yeah, just working with you and getting, just as an end of one, The depth of your integrity, degree to which you both believe in this modality, these several modalities really, that you're drawing upon and your lack of attachment to them and your ability to just connect with, in this example, me as a, as just a fellow human being and both check in with, okay, what do you need? What are you experiencing? And this, as soon as you described this twisting of the body, this knot, I could feel it in myself more than I ever have. And I'm, you know, a western straight male who's had tough, tough time feeling sensations below my neck whatsoever, you know, so I'm very much in that

Timothy Tynan: 10:35

the Club

Peter Callahan: 10:35

Yeah, exactly. Process of like, oh, there is lots of information and maybe all the most useful information that's coming from down here. How do I touch in with that? If you don't mind describing a little bit.

Timothy Tynan: 10:47

Yeah, this, so this kind of is, I just wanna differentiate what I'm about to kind of go into, I guess, is my own discovery working with set. This isn't necessarily, that's something that's taught with in structural e genetic therapy. We definitely touch on the idea of kind of differentiating, for lack of a better term, pain and sensation. But I've kind of gone a little bit deeper with this, playing with the idea of pain versus suffering and how when we have, parts of our body that we have chronic pain, more likely than not, there's gonna be some level of suffering around that part of the body. Because we all can individually, feel pain in certain parts of our lives and still feel like I would say good pain, but we can, we can be present with it. You know? I like the example for people who work out, we use moments where pain actually kind keeps us focused.

Peter Callahan: 11:36

It's data. It's information, right? The hot stove is such a good idea with our little daughters. Like you touch that. Your body lets you. know this hurts. It's very useful information.

Timothy Tynan: 11:47

So when we differentiate the two of pain versus suffering, let's say someone someone has, you know, low back pain, there's a sensation arising in their body and that's part of the body and it, the body's communicating The only way it knows how to communicate the only language that it knows, which is the language of sensation. And for whatever reason, we've almost developed a disconnection from this part of our body. And we'll, we'll know there's a disconnection when we're judging it,

Peter Callahan: 12:11

Wanting it to be different than it is,

Timothy Tynan: 12:13

Exactly. Exactly. So you know, you have chronic pain. You know, you come home from the longest days working your butt and your back's hurting you, right? And it's like there's a difference between coming home from the gym, let's say, and You're just like sore You're not judging your body for being sore. You're just, oh, it worked out. I'm sore.

Peter Callahan: 12:29

But I intentionally did this to you,

Timothy Tynan: 12:31

right

Peter Callahan: 12:31

I'm glad. I'm glad you're feeling the feels.

Timothy Tynan: 12:35

you know, we have this judgment that it, it doesn't belong there. So something I kind of play with with people is this idea, okay, let's just first notice that there is this disconnection happening within you. Notice the narrative that your mind tells you about your body. And I find this very often, Almost every single modality, whether when it comes to doctors, chiropractor, no matter what it is, we constantly have this narrative that there's something wrong with you. And it doesn't mean that there isn't things that need to be brought back into balance, if we constantly have this narrative that there's something wrong with your body, it creates more disconnection. What if we said, yes, you are feeling tremendous amount of pain in Your body Yes, there is something that needs to be addressed. But what if we said, no, your body is doing what it's meant to do in this moment. It's coping with whatever I balance. Whether it's a physical imbalance, an emotional imbalance, a spiritual, there's some disharmony happening and your body's doing its best to cope with it, and it's communicating to you in the language that it knows which the language of sensation, asking your awareness to connect with it because your body is, holding onto this load and it just can't hold it anymore. You know, I like the analogy of like, when you're holding something really heavy, it's like, you could hold it for a while and it's like, I can do this. Or while your arm, your arms get really shaky, it's like, I can't, I can't do this anymore until they just collapse. Your body's kinda doing the same thing. You know? It's, it's, it's holding onto a physical structure, an emotional structure, a spiritual structure, and it's trying to keep you in balance. It's trying to keep you going through the days to a point where it's like, I just, I can't do this anymore. And it starts to scream at you. So when we do body work, if we can come from that perspective, instead of saying there's something, let's say again, going back to the analogy of the back, instead of saying There's something wrong with your back, let's say no, your back is doing what it's trying as best it can to cope with whatever imbalance is happening. What if while we're working, we try and take the load off of it, let's work with it rather than against it. And what happens, at least from what I view, is that there's a, a harmonization that happens while someone's on the table. It's a much more, I dunno if peaceful is the right word, but there's just this, this beautiful experience of a person that's happening. They're working with their body as it's happening. Because as we're doing soft tissue work, instead of having this idea that, like me as the practitioner, I'm the one releasing your tissue. It's a very disempowering experience. I'm definitely stimulating parts of your body, but it's you as the experiencer that has to experience the sensation that's there. Notice the resistance that's in your tissue. Also, then recognize the resistance in the tissue is not doing anything out of spite or harm. It's resistance out of protection. And then once you notice that resistance, I find the best way to break through that is with gratitude. Because what tends to happen is resistance comes up and we kinda go, Ugh, I don't want to do stop. I don't want, I don't want you to do this right now. I don't. I just, I don't, I don't wanna feel this. I don't wanna do this. That's the resistance. And you start judging it. Start judging the sensation. First step is peer back and almost like, watch the, the mechanism that's happening. Watch the sensation that's arising and how your mind's like judging it or judging me as the practitioner judging you that you, you're holding there, whatever, whatever it is, just that's happening. And then see if you can send gratitude that resistance.'cause it wants to, it just wants to see, be, be seen and heard. It's not trying to hurt you. And then almost intentionally kind of communicate to it, thank you for protecting me, but I'm ready to feel what's behind this resistance. don't need your protection anymore. I'm grateful for it, but I'm ready to move beyond this holding that's been protecting me, but now has holding me back. And then once you do that, once you kind of allow yourself to feel behind that resistance, What happens is like this massive wave of sensation arises because whatever, whatever sensation was behind that resistance starts to be experienced and to move. And the more you allow yourself to like let that whole sensation just like wash over your whole body and experience it as much as you possibly can, whatever that was holding onto will start to integrate and that tissue can start to let go. And if there's an emotion trapped in there, it can be re-experienced, which again, emotion in the body is another talk for another day that we can probably go down for another two hours on top of that

Peter Callahan: 17:08

Understood. Understood. No, that's a, that's such an APTT description though, Tim. I resonate so much with it and I, I also acknowledge that it's, it's still unique, you know, different, I think for most of us to, to think of like as an example. So I woke up this morning, we've been having trouble sleeping and. Kids have stuffy noses and they're coughing all night and my back's stiffer than usual. I think having many of these conversations with you, I have less resistance to that pain than I used to, but I still certainly don't feel myself. So what you're de, just to restate what you're describing, so I, I could say, oh my God, my back. Why is it always doing this? I'm like stretching every night. I don't know what else to do. this is so annoying. I just want it to feel better. I wish there was something I could just do about it as opposed to having a little bit more space spaciousness or understanding and sort of connecting with like I hear you, I see you back. thanks for trying to help. Thanks for letting me know that something is going on in here.

Timothy Tynan: 18:08

hmm.

Peter Callahan: 18:09

And one step I like, and this works with, this is really relatable to internal family systems. IFS parts work in this, these. When we have anger or frustration, I've talked about this on other episodes, that is a part of us that's trying to protect us from some experience, some similar experience that we've had. So remembering that and trusting, just like with this feeling in our body. I hear you. Yeah. There's something really important here going on. There's some pain in us. Thank you for letting me know. Thank you for helping. Thank you for trying to keep me safe and protecting me. And what you're doing right now is actually not particularly helpful. You know, this is where there's lots of ways to have this conversation. I love asking, what do you need? What would be helpful? Help me understand more fully, right? We can really slow this down and try to be patient with ourselves and eventually, so you know, it's kind of paired out, like what you're doing is actually kind of holding me back like this pain is slowing me down. It's not allowing me to take better care of myself, better care of my relationships in the more emotional pain piece, right? I'm getting really frustrated and angry instead of slowing down and being patient with this person. So I. Instead. So this is where I'm curious how you think about this work.'cause I'm having these conversations with people to some degree, and I'm not doing internal family systems therapy, but we certainly are acknowledging, all right, this part's trying to help. What is it? What else could it do? How else could it be useful to help us? So I noticed this anger come up. Ah, that can remind me to to have courage. Usually the thing that comes up strongly for me after the gratitude is then courage. All right, what, what do we need to create or put into the world? Can you maybe help my analogy with the physical, the body piece of it?

Timothy Tynan: 19:43

Yeah, I almost like the, know, obviously I don't have the level of expertise that you do have with internal family systems. I kind of, I know we talked in the past of almost like the analogy of nonviolent communication, right? It's like, the body is communicating in its language. Which is sensation and just like in something that about communication, when you start to empathically, listen to it, it just starts to, oh wait, you're listening. Here's all my stuff, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It just starts to it starts

Peter Callahan: 20:11

good friend

Timothy Tynan: 20:12

Yeah. Yeah. the way we empathically listen to our bodies is through feeling, consciously feeling it's the way the body feels heard and the more we just, is, to me, the hardest part of Navan communication is not saying anything It's just empathically listening. Right. That's the, if anything, that is the most integral piece we always focus on like how to, how to speak. It's more about how do we listen and to me that is just like in any, conflict, re resolution, there's a conflict between you and your body. The first step is like, I. Empathically listening to your body, letting it talk, not trying to change it. Just saying, okay, what is, what is here? Can I, can I hear you fully right now? And I like the analogy, and you might be familiar with this,'cause you've done a lot of silent meditation retreats where like after the first couple days when your mind starts to settle, then your body just starts screaming because all the minds chatter stopped. And now the body's like, oh, oh wait, I, I can talk now. then here comes all the sensations. And when you're at a retreat, you have no option but just to sit with it. And it's almost like the body's giving you, showing you all these places where there's unintegrated stuff. We can call it emotion, we call energy. It doesn't matter what you call it. There's unintegrated stuff trapped in the body. So it's like, oh, the mind's quieted after meditating for, you know, three, four days, here comes all the unintegrated stuff, and it's your chance then to feel into it. it's like, these are the, these are, the body giving you the breadcrumbs to walk back into the fully into the present moment. And the way we stay fully in the present moment is through feeling. What usually throws us outta the present moment is thinking. So it's like when you're, you wake up and your back is sore. I can imagine you probably had a rough night, probably your head was spinning all night long, right? frustration. You wake up like, ugh, this, it's like the bis, oh wait, here you go. Here is your focus, or for your awareness to stay present? the same way you would use your breath in a meditation. It's like the body saying, here's the anchor point for your awareness, and the way you stay present through it is through feeling. It's the way you stay present, and that's where the difference of pain and sensation arises where If you can sit and stay present with a sensation, the pain might still be pretty immense, but the suffering has faded away because suffering is resistance to pain, and the way we resist is by going into our minds and thinking about it rather than staying present and feeling it. Does that answer your question at all?

Peter Callahan: 22:53

Yes, yes. And my achievement, goal oriented, getting things done, brain says like, okay, and then what do I do? Like, then what do I, you know, I'm just, I'm like hearing that part of me like, okay, great. And then what, I've just booked a session with you, like what is there? and this isn't really the intention of our conversation to go down this, this sort of path, but I, maybe we can table that for later, is like things we can do on our own too, or what the, next is there. But is there sort of a brief version of. what a next step might be as, because we can be with that, and I'm thinking of folks with even more chronic pain, where's just like, all this is never gonna go away. It just is gonna ebb and flow and I can be with it in a lesson, but then my knee's gonna keep hurting or whatever else it is. What do you recommend then?

Timothy Tynan: 23:43

I'll give you I'll give you an example of how it's kind of worked in my own life, so. My autoimmune condition for years, uh, was Crohn's Disease and which brought on a credible amount of pain in my stomach. And it, I also developed, you know, not to have too much information. the end of my digestion, let's say that some complications down there. and for years I was constantly trying to fix it. I was like maniacally running around trying to find people to fix the problem. And it was after one of my surgeries one of my mentors said to me, something along the lines of, what if this never gets better? What if this is what you're gonna be like? Can you still find peace in your life as it is right now? And that was a really hard question to have to answer'cause I had to come into terms with what was, which for me was an incredible amount of pain in a lot of sensitive areas of my body. So I did some work for a couple months around just not necessarily giving up ever trying to get better, but coming to terms with what is. when I got to a point where I was very content with, again, not giving up on the idea that I'll never get better, but being able to still live my life and to still find peace in my life with it, eventually a solution arose. and because I had started to build a connection to my body, I remember the day where I felt this calling in my body to call a specific doctor that I refer with. I didn't think it was like, I just need to call this guy. It was like I just said, no, him and I called him. I'm like, can you just gimme a couple names of some people? And he lifts it off like four or five names, and one of the names just hit me in a place. I was like, that's it. don't care what they charge. I don't care what they do. I just felt it a, a, a yes in my body and I wouldn't have felt that, yes, if I was constantly resisting my body because I was trying to fix it. It was only because I had gotten to a point where I had surrendered into what was happening that was present with my body, that I felt it a strong yes. I even remember when I talked to this woman on the phone who I now work with from my stomach. I didn't even, I didn't remember what she said to me because I wasn't even listening. I was just like, I just felt this, like, I don't just tell me when to show up. I'll just show up. Long story short is I've been working with her now for a year, and now all of my medical complications have, almost all gone. So it doesn't mean to say that, let's say if you have a knee problem, there isn't something to be corrected. there needs to be something that needs to probably be corrected, brought into balance at some point. But you may not find that true answer unless you come into terms with it, because you'll know what the correct answer is. You won't think it, you'll know it, it'll be in your bones. The more you become connected to the body, the body tells you what it is. It's like when you, when you truly find the answer, it'll be in the intuitive part of you. It won't be in the English or the Spanish you speak. It won't be in that part of you because that the mind's always trying to fix the problem. The first, the first step is connecting, allowing, surrendering, trusting, and then when you have come to that point, if that's what's meant to happen, a solution will almost always arise and you'll have the awareness to recognize it. I know for a fact if I didn't do that, the woman I go to just for example, is incredibly expensive. like ridiculously expensive. If I wasn't connecting my body, I didn't feel this. I just need to go to this. Just trust it. My mind, like, I can't do this, I can't do that. I'm not gonna go there. I'm gonna do this instead because it's easier, it's faster, it's cheaper, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I know I wouldn't have done it. The only reason I went was because my, I felt this like extremely strong. Yes. In my body. I knew it in my bones. I'm like, I don't care. I just, I need to do this. So it's not an easy answer for those who are suffering. And I know that firsthand. And of course I'm not, I'm not Buddha. I'm still suffering in a lot of ways in my own life, but in the ways that I have healed the more you recognize your suffering, the utility of your suffering, that your suffering is there because you're out of balance in some way. Doesn't mean to do anything wrong, it just means it's the universe saying to you, Hey, connect, come back, come back in the present moment, come back into your body. Work with your suffering. And the way we work with our suffering is we see where we have disconnected from the present moment, which disconnects us from our body. I. So I can't tell you what would happen for that person with a knee problem. The same way when you do download communication, you don't know what the solution's gonna be. The first step is just hearing the needs, and a lot of times once people hear the needs, a solution arises naturally. So it's the same thing with your body. When you hear the needs of your body, then you know like then it's like now there's this connection happening between the two of you recognize each other's needs. You hear the body and then the body know, obviously knows it doesn't wanna be in pain, it doesn't wanna suffer all the time. So it knows like, yeah, we should probably do something about this. But from that point, you're working, you're moving with the body forward versus against it, trying to fix it. Does that make any sense at all?

Peter Callahan: 29:19

Completely, completely working with, not against and really listening and trusting. And I'll be honest, I still, I I love what you're saying and you eventually used the word intuition. I was really hearing you describe what I trying to say when I use the word intuition, but, and I'm hearing I this quote that I love from you, that it got written down here. The way the body communicates is through sensation. way we listen is Through feeling.

Timothy Tynan: 29:49

Yeah.

Peter Callahan: 29:50

And again, I'm just gonna speak to like my frosty new Englander skeptical lens of I love this, I want this to be true. I've experienced this on some levels to a slight degree, I'm a slow learner after many, many days in silent meditation. But, and I find it hard to access. I really trust it and I want to, and this is where I think the value of. Working with you personally and working with someone like you, for anyone, I think can be, can be essential to have a, a guide, a colleague in, in offering this.'cause the way you're describing it well, maybe I don't even need you, Tim. I can just sit there, feel my sensations, let this part of me, know that it's heard and seen and ask what it needs and potentially offer it. That. I mean, maybe I can't reach some spots on my back, but How true is that for you?

Timothy Tynan: 30:40

Well, again, going back, like if you? have some sort of injury, accident, something like that. Again, it doesn't mean there isn't things that need to be done, but quite often I get clients who, they're like, I've been to this person. I've been to this person. I've been to this person. I've been to this person, I've been to this person, and then I show up in your doorstep. And you can tell this person's been through an just so much suffering going through this process and disconnection with their body. And I would love it. My, my greatest thing ever would be, yes, someone listens to this podcast, connects to their body, and they feel yes in their body. I just need to go right to this person. And they just know right away. But then again, we're not it's hard to communicate this because we're so trained to think about stuff and to fix and to judge and to, go into the rights and the wrongs.

Peter Callahan: 31:25

Yes.

Timothy Tynan: 31:26

it doesn't mean that there isn't a utility to that. The mind is a amazing tool. It's the greatest calculator ever conceived by God, right? Or whatever you think we wanna call it. It's amazing. We need it. We need it do the taxes. We need to look up all the practitioners that we need to look for for our body. It needs to do the research. The difference is when you? task your mind, you know, if you have something going on more often than not, there is this knowing in your body that you, you need to do something. We already kind of have that piece, right? let's say you go through this process of connecting with your body beforehand, and then you say you task the mind. Okay, go make a list of a bunch of practitioners around us. The mind isn't the one that has to make the decision. The mind's the one that does the research. The part that makes the decision is the intuitive part of you that knows that's the person I need to go see. That's it. And the more you connect with the body, the more you're connected to your intuition, which will help you steer the ship of your life. You still need the mind to like put the sails down and to calculate the roots and things like that. but it's the intuitive part of you that says that way or that way, and then the mind works out the details. Problem is most of us we're driving with the mind, so we're spinning our wheels constantly. We're not learning the lessons of life. We're not listening to the by. We're not listening to the present moment telling us how to move

Peter Callahan: 32:53

And it's really hard. Our conditioning. cause again, I really. I'm drinking the Kool-Aid, Tim. I buy it like I believe it deeply, and yet it's, it's still really challenging to practice to, and that's where I'm honestly working with you and, and others and applying this, I mean, you're sort of describing the fundamental underpinning of sort of this human experience on many levels it seems anyway.

Timothy Tynan: 33:18

That's why it's so difficult within shamanism. They call it the core sickness of all humankind was a disconnection, sickness. Of course, it's the hardest thing ever. That's why we are here. That's why we came into this human condition, was to work with this condition, and this, at least from my mind, or my intuition, whatever you wanna call it, going this is true healing. And along that path of true healing, there are physical things that need to be corrected because we have physical problems that are going on in our body. But we'll know on a deep level what the right thing to do is the more we're connected to the body. You can't sit there and meditate and heal all your stuff. Maybe somebody can, maybe the Buddha did, maybe he did, but all I know is for my own suffering, the more I've been connected. I've just been way more efficient.

Peter Callahan: 34:18

Beautiful.

Timothy Tynan: 34:20

Yeah.

Peter Callahan: 34:21

And, and for what it's worth, for all the left sides of the brains listening out there, there is more and more research. There's a body of research around the body and around physical sensations, and there's one card study where it's like blue and red cards and there's a pattern within these cards. but basically after about 40 card, 40 times, flipping these cards over, most people started to determine a pattern and by 50 cards they said, yep, I figured it out. This is what's going on here with these card, you know, They figured out, most people figured out by 50, their palms started sweating every time they reached for the red card versus the blue card, like the correct one after 10. So the body was actually, we already knew that discernment had already occurred. Subconsciously physical we're, we're connecting those dots on some level, but. Our lack of connection to those truths is sort of born out in what the research showed. And, and just one other data point, when we think of who's the smartest human that we've heard of, right? What's the first, who's the first name that all of our minds go to? Most brilliant brain of all time. Albert Einstein. Right. It's the person we think of this quote from him that I come back to all the time and I brought it up'cause I, I try and recite it, but it's good to go back to the, the source. Einstein said the intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. So I kind of, intuition is a sacred gift. And the rational mind is a faithful servant, just like you said, it's this brilliant computer. But what he said is, we've created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.

Timothy Tynan: 36:01

Yeah. And that's where, and again, all the stuff we just went into, this is beyond what we came here to talk about, which is structural object therapy. This is, this is so much more, But at least what I've recognized is this is how, go back to the nature of the universe. watching the relationship in our physical body, in the relationship we have to our physical body can be extrapolated out to how we are in relationships, to how we act in our institutions to how we are in our into, through nature. It's that's, you know, the adage of, of like if you wanna change the world, you start with yourself. You have to put the fire out in yourself first. You know, if we see chaos out there, it's because there's chaos here. And the first place to start to put that chaos out is within my realm, you know, of body, work is between our minds and our bodies. Start there and then if you wanna go even deeper, start between your mind and your consciousness. I mean, we can go down that, that's another rabbit hole for another day.

Peter Callahan: 37:07

Yes, there I'm more rabbit holes to come in'cause there's all these conflicts going on around the world. Whatever time you're listening to this, and this paradox of, be the change we wish to see. Like, me do as much healing meeting of these parts of myself trying to understand and transform them, right? This hurt people, hurt people. Pain that isn't transformed is transferred. So let me metabolize this, process it so that I don't pass it along to my kids or my neighbor or And does that mean I don't need to do anything about the rest of the world? cause we can obviously feel impotent or we can feel deeply driven well, I'm just gonna go stand next to Greta, get myself arrested and keep yelling at the man. Like part of that needs to happen too.

Timothy Tynan: 37:50

But just like with the body, if we're constantly acting from our mind, if we're in our mind, that means we're acting from a wound because we're not connected to the body because there's some sensation present, which means what's, why we went to the mind to begin with is because there's a sensation we don't wanna feel. In the present moment. So we go to our minds, you're on the matrix. The more you become present and you're acting from your intuition, any action that you take isn't adding fuel to the fire. you are the ripples in the pond. The problem is, is that we have all these people who are trying to change the world in their view of what the world needs to be through their own judgment and ego versus having this, like, view of it all where, I love this Ron Doss quote where he talks about how, you know, there's this, I think this video I'd sent you before about it's all perfect. And he had went to his, you know, his master at the time. He is like. His master was like, Hey Rob, it's all perfect. He's like, what do you mean? What about Bangladesh? What about, you know, Israel and Palestine? What about starvation? What about rape? And all these things. He's like, do you not have the courage to step back from humanity just a little bit to see the way of things, to see how it all works together and it and it doesn't mean that there aren't actions that need to be taken. It's just a matter of when we take those actions, are they coming from a place that's gonna bring more connection or they coming from a disconnection with ourselves that are projecting our disconnection onto the world, which in turn is creating more disconnection. And the hardest, the hardest part of this is we're so thought action driven people. It's like, well, we need to go do it. It's like, no. The first step is not doing, that's the first step is not doing, is sitting with what is coming to terms, what is recognizing, what is as the lesson. We need to learn as the experience we're meant to integrate. Understanding it for what it is. The same way we have pain and suffering in our body. We have pain and suffering in society, and the same way our resistance in our body is our teacher that we need to send gratitude for as protection. The same thing is happening in our society. It's the fractal nature of all of all of this. And if we recognize what's going on in the world as bad and wrong. then we don't see the utility of the suffering. We don't learn the lesson. You know, we don't look at Israel and Palestine and see there's so much suffering going on. How do we stop suffering is the end of the day. every bit of the suffering in the world is if we come at it from judgment and right and wrong, good and bad. We're creating more suffering. It's this cycle we're going through over and over again. It's why we keep reliving, you know, history repeats itself over and over again because we're coming from this ego-based way of solving problems versus coming from this intuitive place of trying to work with what is seeing the, seeing the sacredness in everything that's happening. I. The utility of everything that's happening, which I'm sure if any, if, of the two people who are gonna listen to this, they're like, but yes, but what then this? And it's like, yeah, there are two parts of ourselves. There are that part of you that looks at what's going on in the world and says that just sees us and is just like, oh my God, this is awful. This is terrible. It's like, yeah, that's part of you. And also there's this part of you that says, and this too, and this too. But if we only act from the part of ourself that says, but, but we need to change all this, then we never, and we never listen to the end. This too, we're not coming from it from a balanced place. Obviously this is going way beyond body work,

Peter Callahan: 42:06

and I'm so glad, Tim, I'm so glad.'cause I feel like this is, these are some of the conversations we've had. I really, I'm so grateful to finally have this recorded as some of the, because I really, I just really love the way you describe deeds, universal truths. Like you know, it's your perception from many wise humans of, of what is currently unfolding, what we're experiencing. And it, and of one, again, it totally resonates with me and I'm hopeful that anyone who listens to it is trying to get a better understanding of who you are and what you do. This can be a really helpful underpinning of like, here's your view of the world and here's what you believe is happening and you're not here to fix anyone. Even the word healing can be misleading at times. Right. Some people exchange it for, for meeting or being with or allowing or'cause it's not necessarily about changing something and I love it as an inspiration to not give up, to keep moving forward or, or cultivating the courage to be with whatever's going on. And not necessarily have to know, or have to solve or find the answer right away. Again, my, conditioning has a tough time with that. And at the same time, it feels really freeing and liberating to not just need to make everything better.'cause a huge part of me just wants the whole world to be full of love and to to be fixed and to be better. And what you're describing is that may very well not necessarily be the point right now. And ah, well if that is true, boy do I feel better. That's, that's really helpful.

Timothy Tynan: 43:38

and just, if we ever do get to that point where it's all love and connection, all these things that's gonna happen in the present moment, it's not gonna happen out there in the future. So to get there, we have to work with what is, And it's gonna take a bunch of steps to get there. But if we want that world of love and connection, we need to create it now with love and connecting with what is now, which is accepting what's going on again. Doesn't mean you just, you just allow everything to happen. Like to the point where we're just, oh, we're just gonna kill each other all the time. It's like, we need to put out the fire in ourselves first. if we keep dumping our own charges under the world you can't fight fire with fire. You can't use the broken thing to fix the broken thing. So, yeah, I'm not, Utopus to some degree. like, I would love, I would, I, yeah, I would. I think that's the goal of all of us is to create harmony in the world. But if we're trying to create harmony with our minds, we only create disharmony.

Peter Callahan: 44:31

Understood.

Timothy Tynan: 44:33

Yeah. I'm looking off my soapbox now.

Peter Callahan: 44:35

I, I love your soapbox and you can, you can hang out on there for the rest of this, this life and any others that are to come. I would appreciate it. I would appreciate it. And yeah, maybe we can just, just lay on the plane with a couple of practical pieces here, if, put it in, but the Martin Luther King quote came to mind when you're speaking too. Right? Darkness cannot, darkness, only light can do that. He cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that.

Timothy Tynan: 45:01

Right. We've heard these quotes a million times, like we all hear them. Right. And we, but the thing is I think a lot of our own egos thinks That, we're the, the ego thinks it's the light It's like, yeah, but I'm the light. Right?

Peter Callahan: 45:14

That, that is an insight. Tim, that is hilarious. My

Timothy Tynan: 45:19

Yeah, but my

Peter Callahan: 45:20

slapped in the face right there.

Timothy Tynan: 45:22

right it's like, yeah, but, but my view of the world is the right one. And it's like, yeah, maybe, but maybe you saw, you know, 8 billion other views of, the world.

Peter Callahan: 45:32

Right.

Timothy Tynan: 45:33

And if you try and impose your view on everybody else, you're only creating darkness.'cause you're shutting out somebody else's view. You're, not Okay. Again, I can go by, stop. I'm going back on my soap. I'll stop here.

Peter Callahan: 45:45

It is so great though. That's so, cause it's like how many of, I've talked to so many of the people sort of in this personal growth development world, If everyone just did what I know is right, like we'd all be much better off. Like we all feel that same way in some level and like And that's where I'm not a utopist at all. It's more just there are whole levels of being with ourselves in each other in reality that we're not achieving. I love rupture and repair as like an inevitability of a relationship. We're not gonna just stop ruptures from happening, but we can stop the levels of suffering and the generational trauma that occurs from that, that could be healed more readily. I deeply believe that'cause animals are doing it, animals are shaking their body, releasing the trauma and not passing it on sometimes. Or we keep them in a scientific experiment where they get to pass it on through many generations. That's

Timothy Tynan: 46:33

They have the gifts of not having the ego so they don't have to deal with it as much as we do.

Peter Callahan: 46:38

right. Right. A gift

Timothy Tynan: 46:40

Right. I guess, you know, and I very much did not touch on the practicality of what structural energetic therapy is as a, as a body work modality. In that case, you know, we probably need to. hold their podcast just for that. This is just my view of, when you're doing body work for in areas of pain, there can be a lot of work. You're, you're working on specific areas that have been in chronic holding for years, if not your entire life. So it's gotta be uncomfortable. You know, we typically think of massage and going back to what's this different about massage? It's not comfortable. It's not relaxing. It's because we're, the whole point is to push you into uncomfortability. So you move beyond your patterns, your physical patterns of holding in the body. You have to face the, holding. which is gonna be uncomfortable. And what we touched on is at least my view of how you can work with an uncomfortability.

Peter Callahan: 47:41

Thank you. Makes, makes so much sense. And yeah, I will just put in my plug for how wonderful working with you has been and continues to be, and the raving fan that I am and how many other folks I sense your way and yeah, I'm just really excited to expose at least maybe one more person to, to the work you're doing. Hopefully Hopefully

Timothy Tynan: 48:03

my torture chamber.

Peter Callahan: 48:07

That's, it's this balance and that's why I love everything you just described.'cause it's trusting the practice and the intention. And, many others have gone through this process with incredible results and myself included, just opening up my body and feeling a whole different level of connection and comfort and trust that even when there is discomfort, it's not this horrible experience. And there's, there's always something to be learned or understood or met as we're saying. So yeah, just thank you for, for the work that you're doing, Tim. And I'm, I'm excited again. Let's, let's just keep going. Let's, let's do some more and see what else comes out of us.

Timothy Tynan: 48:46

on podcast 20, maybe we'll start scratching the surface of of what we're trying to get to.

Peter Callahan: 48:51

Exactly.

Timothy Tynan: 48:53

We'll just keep dancing around the abstract for as long as possible because at the end of the day, this clunkiness of language never really helps us get to the thing.

Peter Callahan: 49:01

Right. Right. So can you just remind folks where to find you? What's maybe letting us know about the Sanctuary Center?

Timothy Tynan: 49:10

Yeah. So my office is in Portland, Connecticut, right over the Egia Bridge of Connecticut River, which is a beautiful little drive. They can go to my website, sanctuary center ct.com, which they can read a little bit more about the actual, you know, practical body work aspect, which I didn't really talk about at all today. and you know, and also, you know, not every session needs to be this big grand spiritual journey. You know, if anybody just has back pain that just wants to work on back pain, it's very practical to that too. But it's just to know that there are levels to this that you can go deeper if you so are inclined to. And I'm more than willing to go to those depths with you if you'd like to or if you don't want to. It's not wrong or right. You just got your elbow hurts and we can work on that That's no problem at all. And yeah, I would love to work with anybody who's, whether it's physical pain, emotional pain, or just curious at all and just general wellness.

Peter Callahan: 50:08

Thank you so much, Tim. More

Timothy Tynan: 50:09

Thank you for having me, man.

Peter Callahan: 50:11

Of course.

Timothy Tynan: 50:12

More to come for sure

Peter Callahan: 50:14

Alright.

Timothy Tynan: 50:14

dispute. I'll get it back on my soapbox for you, See you bud.

Peter Callahan: 50:22

All right. Well, a big thank you to Tim. For this fun conversation. And if you've made it this far, thanks to you for for being with us on. The fresh perspectives podcast. If you enjoyed it and found it useful, I'd be grateful if you'd be willing to take a moment to subscribe. Offer some feedback and of course, share it with a friend. If you think they might benefit from listening. Thanks so much for your curiosity. Wishing you Corinne. And compassion. Take care.