Unwinding Chronic Pain with Structural Energetic Therapy | Tim Tynan

I am so grateful to Tim for joining me for this conversation!  Please check out his website to learn more or reach out: https://www.sanctuarycenterct.com/

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Transcript

Peter Callahan: 0:05

Hello, and welcome to the fresh perspectives podcast, where our intention is growing together and leading with love. Um, Peter Callahan. And I believe we each have incredible capacity. To continue to learn and evolve as individuals and as a species. And bring way more love and a lot less fear. Into the world and our daily lives. Changing can be hard. And I've found that even if nothing changes. Having the courage to see our challenges from a fresh perspective. Can change everything. I'm so glad you're here. And I'm so glad to have my good friend, Tim Tynan back on the show with us. You may have heard our last conversation. Where we went pretty deep and existential on maybe some of the challenges with our world today. And I wanted to bring Tim back on as part of our main intention was to really talk about the work that he does. It's a really want to share with you, just some of the healing modalities that are out there and something that's worked really well for me. And a lot of other people. And this work of structural energetic therapy. So you may have heard his bio before, but really this is what Tim focuses on is the sematic relationship between our body, our emotions, our consciousness, any uses this really intentional bodywork to help clients access parts of themselves that have been. Unconscious or just really leading to a lot of chronic pain. Is it here? I was talking about. In this conversation, we really just get into the nuts and bolts of structural energetic therapy. And the definition, some of the origins and really talking through Many of the issues that we can all encounter in our lives around chronic pain tension. what he speaks to is really interesting. The spiral twist that most of us seem to be born with, or as it's called. Uh, core distortion. So explain what that is, what to expect in a structural energetic therapy session. There's a combination of cranial sacral, acupressure. and the deeper form of massage, basically. So I'm really excited to bring you in. Come join in the conversation and thanks so much for being here. Awesome. Well, welcome back to the podcast. It was my first welcome back. I'm glad to have you for the hopefully second of many more

Tim Tynan: 2:32

Yeah, thanks, Peter. It was fun the first time and, uh, obviously we had a lot to talk about. So, you know, we'll see how much, uh, I can get back on my soapbox and see how much people want to receive it. Yeah, you

Peter Callahan: 2:46

feedback from that conversation. And I know a big part of our intention today, as we honestly referenced in our first conversation was about getting back maybe to the bit more concrete and the tangible. What are the nuts and bolts of Structural energetic therapy and how is it different than massage?

Tim Tynan: 3:06

Obviously last time, you know, I kind of went off into the more, Ethereic ideas about it. But today, you know, really just wanted to touch in it's very much a physical experience as well. And not everybody is going to go to that that place that we discussed last time. And it doesn't mean that it's better or worse if you didn't go there. But I also want to touch on the fact that, like, you don't have to go there. It could be a physical experience. So really, at its core, structural energetic therapy is, It's a really beautiful kind of collection of really advanced manual therapies, some of which include myofascial restructuring, cranial structural therapy, which is unique to SET, and it was actually created specifically for SET. We use acupressure, we use breath work, and all of which is geared towards essentially unwinding the body and restructuring your body to a place where it's in balance and in homeostasis. You know, very often when we've had chronic injuries and chronic pain, it's the culmination of years of compensation over and over to the point where the body just says, I can't do this anymore and starts to scream and structural energetic therapy is essentially the unwinding of all those compensations back to the point where your body can maintain structural balance and strength.

Peter Callahan: 4:21

Makes sense. Makes sense. Yeah, that unwinding or coming back and yeah, reconnecting. So it sounds like there's a lot of. Different aspects to set right? Whereas so massage therapy, where you started, I just feel like there's a simplicity to massage while it's also like a deep connecting modality and lots of people do it. There's lots of different ways to do it, but it sounds like there's so much more around structural energetic therapy. What am I missing there?

Tim Tynan: 4:46

So the best way I've kind of learned to explain is like, let's say, you know, you come in with, you know, neck pain, for instance, the way we would look at it, because when we do soft tissue work, we're doing, we say, myofascial restructuring. Essentially, that's the idea that the body. When pain arises in a single area, it's not just because of tension in that one specific area. It's because of a pattern of compensation that starts from the feet all the way to the top of the head. So essentially again, if you're coming in with neck pain, it might be starting in your feet or your legs or your pelvis. So what we're going to do is we're going to take a step back and then See that the structure as a whole, see where it's starting from, and then working your way up from there. So, you know, if you come to a neck pain, I may start working on your abdominals. I may start working on your chest and, you know, on different parts of your legs and all of which is geared towards building strength underneath that area that you have weakness, which is eventually manifesting pain versus just, you know, I have some tension. I have a, you know, a knot in my shoulder. I'm just going to work that out. We're coming more from the perspective. How can we take the pressure off of that knot in the shoulder and then work to that area after the compensation that that area is dealing with has been released, if that makes sense. That

Peter Callahan: 6:08

I have, I'm, I'm curious to, to understand that a little bit more, but staying with right now, more tactically what we're doing and maybe it makes sense to go into now to Tim's, what are the challenges that you hear most? And I'm happy to share, you know, my experience, yeah. Of working with you and but basically, I was having a lot of pain in my my shoulders and upper back and. This was before I was rocking small children to sleep for hours a day. So, that's, that is only,

Tim Tynan: 6:38

will definitely have a, have a something about it. Yeah.

Peter Callahan: 6:42

This is a great Bluey episode, by the way, where the dad's sitting on a yoga ball in front of his computer for work, and Bluey is out of Australia, it's this great short kids show.

Tim Tynan: 6:51

We just started watching it, actually, like, last week, so I actually caught up with you. It wouldn't have been last week, but now we are.

Peter Callahan: 6:56

Amazing. Amazing. But there's this one simple scene where he's sitting on a yoga ball and his kids are bluey and bingo are asking like, Dad, why? Why do you sit on that weird ball every day for, from work? And he says it better than I ever could in the Australian accent, but he's like, Well, it wrecked me back changing it in nappies. You know, they say for diapers. But basically like, it's because of parenting this dad is sitting on a yoga ball.

Tim Tynan: 7:16

Nothing like guilt induction, right? Because you exist, my body hurts.

Peter Callahan: 7:22

Exactly.

Tim Tynan: 7:23

So, like, you had touched on, like, why you had originally, come in, for instance, and I, you know, I think people, and you were asking about, why would people find you? Like, what is it that would, you know, sure there's neck pain, sure there's back pain, but sometimes people just because, for instance, I have people who do, And they just, they feel resistance. They feel something's off in their structure and their body. So their posture feels off. Um, it doesn't always have to be pain. Generally it's pain, but also people who are like, for instance, I have people who are, they're, in the gym and they want to increase strength. You know, if your body is not in structural balance, as you bring in structural balance, your strength increases, it's the same with athletes who are looking for, you know. Increased performance. it sounds crazy, but people find that they might be able to run a little bit faster. They might be able to jump a little bit higher. They might be able to lift things a little bit heavier because now you have more access to your, your whole body and all your muscles are working in unison versus working against each other.

Peter Callahan: 8:20

interesting. Really interesting. Wow. So really healing and even enhancing to

Tim Tynan: 8:26

Yes.

Peter Callahan: 8:26

like optimizing rather than just fixing per se, So that's, and I'm just trying to think of, so the people who tend to benefit the most from, from this work, again, so we'll get into more of, of the, the how and the what you're doing, but it's staying with the why for a little bit, who have you found has really shared the best, most positive feedback? Like, wow, this has really made a big difference. I'm just wondering if there's some examples that come to mind.

Tim Tynan: 8:51

Yeah, generally, you know, the people, especially the people who are in pain that usually find me are the people who they've been, you know, and I'm going to name a few different professions, not to disparage them, but just as examples, you know, they've been to chiropractic, they've been to PT, they've even thought about surgery, they've done other types of massage, they've done acupuncture, and they're like, well, I've tried everything and I'm still in pain. I'm going to try you. And you know, a lot of times people come in, they have no idea what I do or how I do it. They're just like, well, someone told me to come to you because you, you can bring benefit. And generally those are the people who've had the most, the most benefit and the most extreme sessions because they're afterwards like, Oh my God, I've done X, Y, and Z. And I no longer have pain after this. and. I don't know if we want to get into nuts and bolts about this right now, but the thing that, for lack of a better term, sets set apart, no pun intended, is within our mindset, and there's, within the mindset of a few different other modalities, our bodies are essentially born into a structural imbalance. So the moment you are born, you're actually born into essentially a spiral twist within your body structure. our language, we call that the core distortion. And essentially the way that manifests is that there's this imbalance in the hips, where the left hip is kind of Pulling forward, the right hip kind of pulls back. That kind of tends to spiral up your spine, which is actually, from our opinion, the, origin of scoliosis is this underlying imbalance in the spine. Yeah. So there's this already, there's this weakness in the foundation. So then the spine doesn't have this strength to, to build off of. And technically we all have. a degree of curvature in the spine. We just don't call the scoliosis until it's a certain degree of, of curvature. And that will wind its way all up into your shoulders, into your neck, into your head. And what we do differently in structural energetic therapy is that we actually address that underlying twist. There's a couple of other, there's a chiropractic modality called SOT Chiropractic. even in cranial sacral therapy, they, they acknowledge We are just the only therapy that actually addresses that twist the way we do, which is actually through releasing that twist in the cranial bones, because your cranial bones actually mirror your pelvis. So that same twist that we see in the pelvis, which your left hip kind of rotates forward, right, kind of pulls back, is mirrored in the relationship with the cranial bones. Specifically in the relationship, this might, you know, not to get too into the weeds, but specifically in the relationship between the sphenoid bone, which is the bone right in here, and the occiput, which is the one. In the back right here. And they come down and meet right at the base of the skull and. When that twist is released, it releases this chain reaction throughout the entire body where the pelvis essentially unlocks itself. And then we go and do soft tissue work, it's all done to follow this kind of already opened unwinding process that's happening in the body. But if we don't do soft tissue work, that unwinding that already took place from the cranial bones is going to hit resistance at some point. Because since you were born into that twist, you've developed your compensation patterns, your repetitive motions, you've, you've lived in that twist. So the tension in your muscles and your soft tissue is within that twist. So even though we unwound it from the core, there's still resistance in the soft tissue. So that's where we have to go into the soft tissue to kind of follow that. And the reason why a lot of people, at least from the feedback I've gotten, that it seems more effective for some people is that we're following the body where it wants to go. You know, I'm not forcing the body into any position. I'm not pushing the body anywhere. I'm allowing space for the body to go back where it wants, because the body wants to be in balance and homeostasis. There's just, sometimes there's just resistance there. And we help just move it in that direction. So very often people will get up after a session. They're like, Whoa, I feel so grounded. I feel so. And you may have experienced this before too, where like, your feet just feel super planted on the ground. You feel very connected to your legs. It's because you've never actually experienced your body in that way, because you've always been stuck in this, literal twist in your body. And once that's released, your body's like, Oh, this is what it's meant to feel like. and and then we obviously, we can get into the weasel a bit more about subsequent sessions. You know, your body will, will unwind from there, but that's essentially the core of it is that we're unwinding this underlying core distortion pattern and then releasing the soft tissue to follow that underlying release that we did with the cranial bones. Yeah,

Peter Callahan: 13:27

Amazing. Yes. I, I'm feeling it in my body as we're talking about. It's been a while since my last session and I can almost, I don't know if it's just, if I'm just creating it in my mind, but all of me wants to be unwound. after experiencing it many times now, it's, to what degree do we ever. Just fully align and stay there. Does this need constant maintenance?

Tim Tynan: 13:49

Yes and a no. So there's, there's two ways you have to look at this. Cause obviously we're still living, So the idea is how can we release. All of the patterns that you've built up over the years, as much of them as possible, from all the injuries you've had, all the different, you know, you know, if you've been sitting at a desk for a long time, if you're, you know, you've been doing that motion, or you played sports, you did a specific, like, we have to release all those underlying patterns, I mean, get you to a point where you're just, you're in the present moment, what your body's dealing with now, but we're still living, so, you know, you're going to go on a plane ride for, you know, three hours, you're going to get into a car, you're going to, be playing with your daughter, you might be holding her on your shoulder for a long time, so you're going to keep falling back into patterns. The difference is eventually getting to a point where you're just dealing with whatever pattern you're in, in, the present moment, versus dealing with compensation from when you fell off your bike when you were six. the idea. We can get you, how do we get your body and your structure to As present as possible and not dealing with stuff from your past.

Peter Callahan: 14:52

Interesting.

Tim Tynan: 14:53

And that's where it bleeds into all the stuff we talked about last time because all those patterns from your past also have the emotional stuff that's attached to it, which we got into last time.

Peter Callahan: 15:01

And it's making me think of mindfulness based stress reduction. 40 years ago, Jon Kabat Zinn created an eight week protocol, right? So he turned this fluffy mindfulness topic into repeatable eight week protocol that eventually the doctors at UMass Medical Center were sending. John Kabat Zinn, their patients, because they couldn't figure out what was going on, and he was having them relate to their pain in a different way. It wasn't even necessarily removing the pain, but just changing how we're relating to it, and just having a different So it to me, set is something very similar, where 40 years ago, like, sitting and meditating, you were weird. Like, you were on the full hippie spectrum, and like, that was just, like, okay, whatever you need to do, you know? But but then it was it was prescribed. You were referred by your doctor. To go sit and follow your breath and as weird as that felt, it seemed to help a lot of people and the connection of the course helps a lot and so I, to me, there's just an analogy here for structural energetic therapy as well as like if we can acknowledge like, yeah, I was born with a core distortion, probably more than one for my case. I'm not sure how this again with this article thing, but understanding like it's, it's okay not to feel okay. And I often think about how easy it is to give up to, right? We've seen one Western medical doctor. Maybe we've gone to a naturopath. We went to see the acupuncturist. We did chiropractic. Yeah. And I've had like, you know, maybe we tried three or four different things. We didn't just stop at the second opinion where they said, yeah, we don't know either, but it's, it can be exhausting to keep going and keep trying. So I'm curious how you, what you, what comes up for you thinking of all the folks who are like, yeah, I've tried everything else. Like what's, how's this going to work?

Tim Tynan: 16:34

Well, I can only come from my own experience on that dealing with my own chronic health issues. I think I've been fired by five, six different doctors for pushing back. I've seen 10, 15 different naturopathic doctors, all dealing with my Crohn's disease. And one thing that always stuck with me is like, After every single time where I'm like, I tried it and it didn't really stick. It didn't really work. I'm like, all right, what's next? Like, because I always felt in my being, like everything is repairable and maybe it's not, but at least in my view, I'm going to come from that perspective. because it at least keeps you open. You know, there's, it's coming from the place of, I surrender into what's happening, but I'm also not giving up. I find often what happens is, especially those people who've come to my office who have been to a lot of different practitioners. Very often they'll come in with their diagnosis. I see this often with people who like, they have a herniated disc for instance, and they're like, well, I have back pain and I, but I have a herniated disc, so it's not going to get better. I'm like, well, maybe, maybe not. what if we just left that diagnosis you have at the door for a moment and we just stay with your symptoms? You have back pain, okay. If that back pain eventually isn't there, and you go to get an MRI and there's a herniated disc, but you don't have back pain, Who cares? This very often they'll have the diagnosis, they have no cartilage in their knee. Okay, so people come in, they have the preconceived notion that I'm always going to have knee pain. Okay, well, what, again, what if we left this diagnosis? Okay, you have this, this, this understood thing that if you have this, that's it, you're done. End of story. You got to deal with this for the rest of your life.

Peter Callahan: 18:08

There's a problem.

Tim Tynan: 18:09

Right. It's like, well, maybe, maybe not, and very often the same thing. It's like, well, what if we got rid of your knee pain? Who cares what shows up on your scans? You know, I can understand, but if you don't have, if you're not experiencing as pain, who cares? And then we get into the weeds more about what no cartilage means. As again, that's a different ride the whole week, get down another day, but. Very often, these diagnoses that we get along our path actually lock us into a perceived outcome. So the more we can come in from this place of, again, not working against your condition, like we talked about last time, you know, it's, it's surrendering into what's happening, but also staying open to new possibilities. be here with what is, and stay open to any, any potential outcome that can come after that.

Peter Callahan: 18:52

Absolutely, Tim. I love that so much. I mean, that's, to me, that's a great description of really what I mean by fresh perspectives, just staying open. It's not ignoring. The current reality and our current experience. In fact, it's the opposite. I think validating and acknowledging what we are currently experiencing rather than looking at an EKG or x ray and be like, well, no, you don't have that. Well. Well, it hurts. I don't know what to tell you, Doc, but I am experiencing pain, right? It's like we get the opposite sometimes from

Tim Tynan: 19:20

Yeah. Yeah.

Peter Callahan: 19:21

with kids, everything's normal. Well, there's suffering. Can do do you think you could try something else? Like, there is suffering occurring, you know? I'm like, well, everything looks normal.

Tim Tynan: 19:31

And that goes back to, you know, at least that's how Set was always taught to me, um, and you know, it's something I like to talk to you on, we're always talking about Don McCann. Don McCann is the person who actually created Structural Energetic Therapy. But the way he always taught it to us with what you're kind of saying, it's like, how many of us are told, you know. This can't get better. Right. And his whole thing and what, why he even created set to begin with was because he's like, he stayed open. He just had this perspective of like, well, that's interesting. Let's try this. And, and set essentially became set over the course of 45 years of this, of this man's journey of trying different things and putting things together, working with chiropractors, working with neurologists, working with PTs and just, yeah. Seeing what works, seeing what different and, and, and getting feedback from the clients and saying, okay, do you feel better? No. Do you feel better? Yes. And it's like, okay. And then it kind of morphed into this thing, which we now call structural energetic therapy, but it doesn't mean that that's what it's going to be forever. more, there's going to be new discoveries that happen. You know, now it's actually being taken over by, um, the trainings are actually being taken over by one of my really good friends. He's taking over for Don and he has, Uh, a much different perspective on function, um, yeah, and different perspectives on energy. So now it's even starting to morph a little bit differently and adding different stuff. And so even the work as a whole comes from that perspective of, okay, this is what it is in the con in, in, in the flesh right now. And how can we continue to improve and evolve? It's, it's this, it's not a, it's not a, it's not a done deal. It's just, that's where we are now. And there's openness to grow later on.

Peter Callahan: 21:13

Would it be safe to say it's not set in

Tim Tynan: 21:15

Ha! Boom!

Peter Callahan: 21:16

I heard you almost say set, so I

Tim Tynan: 21:18

Ha. Ha. Ha.

Peter Callahan: 21:20

and it what comes up in me is this, like, it feels very antithetical. Whether intentionally or not to this Western medicine, like you went to med school here, the textbooks, it feels like it takes such a long time. I experienced this with a pediatrician. We're like, no, the American association of pediatrics says differently than what you just told me. We were just reading it before we came. And he was just adamant about this certain way. And I'm like, and there's a lot of research around, around continuing education for medical professionals in general. And it's, to me, there's just a much more authentic. Approach, but, but I wonder for some it like it can lack credibility or something, right? If those, if there isn't that openness in that, like, what do you mean you're iterating? You got to figure out what works and keep doing it so that you can like know that you're helping. And there's a, to me, the subjectivity or just a humility. We don't have all the answers. We're doing our best. We found a lot of things that worked and I can't know is how I approach coaching exactly what's going to meet work best for you. All we can do is experiment and try and I'm going to both show up. I like this term, authentic attunement. I'm gonna be myself and use the knowledge that I'm bringing to the table, and I'm gonna be stay open and curious, and try and receive whatever feedback you give me, explicitly, or inexplicably, unexplicably? Explicitly or not, you know, subconsciously, alright, what's I feel like I'm always trying to ask him, as I feel from you, How are you? What do you really need

Tim Tynan: 22:46

right

Peter Callahan: 22:46

what do you really need? Like, what else? What else, man? What can we try? So I really feel that from you, and to me it builds a lot of trust.

Tim Tynan: 22:54

And we've talked about this in the past, where the, the place where new perspectives, fresh perspectives, can come from is in I don't know. I don't know is the most profound place to be. The issue with that though, it means you have to put aside your ego. You have to put aside that part of you that's like, well, yeah, this is what it's going to be. And this is, this is how it is. And it's like, if we as medicine approached each patient, each client that way. From this place of, I don't know, not saying we don't bring in, like you said, the wisdom and the knowledge of where we came from, but then staying open to, okay, this is how things worked up until this point. Let's try this. And also, I don't know if it's going to work. I'm going to try it. We're going to see if this works. I have a very strong intuition that it will, because it has in the past, based off of pattern recognition, doesn't belittle your credibility from all these years of experience. But if you can stay in that place of, I don't know, and stay open, because each person's different. I can have ten people come in with low back pain. And if I try to superimpose the session that was beneficial for the back pain that came in before that, the next person, I might not fully get to what's going on with that person. I may cause more harm or I may not get to it. And that person may not come back because they didn't get relief. It's okay. This worked for this previous person. I'm going to see what could work for you on that. And then stay open to, okay, maybe you need this. And then maybe you need this. That I don't know is where new discoveries come in. That's where paradigms get shifted. That's where things change. And that's where I think there's a big issue in our, in our medical fields from firsthand knowledge of experiencing it was everyone's like, well, no diet supplementation doesn't work for Crohn's lifestyle change doesn't work for Crohn's stress manager doesn't work for Crohn's homeopathics don't work for Crohn's. And it's like. Maybe I'll try it and God it did work because you know I say in this place of like I I wasn't sure and I tried it and it worked

Peter Callahan: 24:57

And you tried a lot of things before you found a combination that has. I hate to say it, but it has worked so far.

Tim Tynan: 25:04

right exactly exactly and with that even with what I'm doing now there's been bumps in the road and with the The practitioner I'm working with, her whole thing is staying open because you're like, oh, okay, well now we took a little left here. Okay, now let's go back over here. It's being able to stay open is, is what's allowed the healing process to take place. It leaves, it lets the body. Start to talk. It lets the body start to, open up because if, all I have in my mind is it needs to be this and the body is saying that, well, I'm not going to see that because I need to see this and that's how it also works in, at least in our perspective in body work. It's like, yes, we have a preconceived, list of protocols and techniques that we do. And we apply them to each person and allow for the openness and for the individuality for each client based off of what they come in with, and we all have that as a collective as well. We have a collective shared experiences, collective shared traumas and in traditions and cultures. And then we have individuality within that. It's the ability to recognize the shared experiences and then the individual experiences.

Peter Callahan: 26:06

sense. Makes sense. Alright, so let's go back,

Tim Tynan: 26:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Peter Callahan: 26:12

We'll get to sort of What to expect with subsequent sessions and going forward, but maybe just paint the picture for initial session, like what to expect when you walk in there and whether it's you, you know, obviously you have your approach and then there's other, not too many other right now, especially depending on where you are in the country, right? Structural energetic therapy practitioners, but what should someone expect if they say, all right, you know what, I'm willing to get, I want to try this. I want to keep seeing how I can feel better in my body. Let's give it a shot. What, what to expect when they come in the first time.

Tim Tynan: 26:39

You know, I mean, one thing I maybe do a little bit differently than most people is I do like to spend, you know, some time, connecting first before I even start to do anything else. I really like to try and especially for people who have gone through all the different practitioners, all different modalities, and they're coming, I really try to we talked about before, just really kind of deprogram a lot of these, mental. prisons that we have about our condition. So that's something I try to do first. And then, what everybody will do first is we'll we'll have you actually stand up and we'll actually see what your posture is. How does your body structure itself? Yes, we all have this this underlying twist within us that we have in the collective, the shared experience we have, but then we're going to stand you up to see, okay, How have you specifically compensated for this? How is your body structure compensate for this underlying twist in your body? Maybe some people might have, added more strength on one side of their body. Maybe one person has, you know, pulled their hip off to one. You know, we're going to see exactly how your body has compensated for that. And then once we kind of get that idea, then it will get you on the table. And then I'll do muscle testing and muscle testing is used to essentially kind of confirm the things that I was seeing when you were We're body reading because sometimes you can visualize things, but then we're going to do muscle testing to ask the body, okay, what's going on here? I want to muscle test and see, okay, where do you need work today? What's going on? then we'll get into the cranial structural work. will test for this specifically, but almost every people, person who gets on my table gets. What we call a core distortion release and that's the cranial releases for that underlying twist in the body There are a few people who can't receive that if they've had years of degeneration that they've had hardware in the body So if you've had a lot of spinal fusions, you have rods in your back. You've got stenosis things like that There are ways we can test to see if the core distortion May cause you more pain because you're almost essentially locked into that twist But if you can receive it everybody gets the cord distortion release. And what that's doing is it's starting the process. It's greasing the wheels for the body to start to open up. And then once we receive that, I'll usually do some acupressure. And what acupressure helps to do is it helps you just bring the body into the state of parasympathetic. you come into my office, you're coming in from, you know, you got off the phone, you fight with your wife, you are dealing with the kids, you're coming from work, you're all. And especially before we start to do body work, I like to bring the people down, you know, like, let's, let's bring your, vagal response down. Let's get you to a point where you're a little more present and a little, I don't want to say calm, but you're just a little more peace in your body And it's almost like it's a time for me. It also almost kind of connect with your body before we start to do soft tissue work. It's a chance for me to really feel into it. Okay, what, you know, I might have muscle tested, I might have done a couple things to see what we should do, but I'm going to check in with your body. What, what should we do today? And it kind of gives me a chance to feel into that. And then after we do that, then we'll get into soft tissue work. And then whatever soft tissue work we decide to do is geared towards where areas of pain are and also what's going to get you the most benefit. to maintain no pain for as long as possible. You know, if someone comes in with neck pain, I want to make sure you get some work done on your neck because that's where you're feeling pain. But we also may need to address something in the lower body that is gonna, is causing the chain reaction of compensation that is causing this pain in the neck. So it's a combination, it's how to dance both of that, how to address the area that you're feeling pain today. And also what areas do we need to address that is going to, is going to maintain that for as long as possible. And I find that's actually what really makes SET unique, is because there are other myofactual restructuring modalities out there. The difference with SET is, with other modalities, If, let's say you came in with neck pain, they have a preconceived set of protocols where they may have to start in your feet and it might not be until session eight that they get to your neck and it's very, and as you can imagine, if you have someone who has severe neck pain, It's very hard to continue to come back for sessions being like, why do you keep working on my feet if you're, if my, but my neck hurts, right? What SET is unique about is that since we do unravel this underlying core distortion pattern, that itself is addressing the entire body structure. And that brings weight bearing support to the whole body that if you came in with neck pain in that session, you know, we only had time to just address your neck. The core distortion release is going to bring. the balance, the lower body that's going to support the work up top. Sure, it might be beneficial to do soft tissue work in there, but if we don't have time to do it, we only have time to address the neck and the soft tissue work, you're still getting the most possible support in the lower body that you could because you did the cortisoracian release. Other modalities, they may not have that access to those techniques that we have.

Peter Callahan: 31:18

Amazing. Wow. Thank you. And then I know you also end with as a last step. So we'll go back through in a moment. But then the

Tim Tynan: 31:25

yes. Yes.

Peter Callahan: 31:26

to then assess the body and you kind of compare. I love this part because I'm trying to feel into my own body. Like, how does it feel? And it always feels better and different and Subtle in some ways and really obvious in others, at least for myself. So then you wrap up with that piece, right?

Tim Tynan: 31:41

Yeah, so after we do soft tissue work, Then we'll, after the session finishes, we'll actually have you stand up again. We'll body read you again and see how things changed. And what I do a little bit differently than other practitioners maybe is when we do body reading initially is I really take time to have the person really feel into their body structure versus me just kind of verbalize to you what I'm seeing, because one thing I notice is a lot of times people don't can't feel it. You know, I can see, hey, you might be favoring your right leg, you know, your right hip, maybe kind of jutting out, you know, might be pushing off to the side, your left shoulder, maybe pulling down, but they can't feel that. So I really take the time to kind of do an embodiment exercise when they're standing so that they can feel it so that later on when they stand up after the session, they can feel the change because I noticed very often people, you know, when I wasn't doing this, they would get up they would look so in balance and so aligned. And I would say, yeah. Wow, like you look so much more in balance and they don't feel any change and my thing I was like, well, who cares what I see, you know, I'm not the one who has to walk out the door with that body. I want to make sure that we take the time and that person feels the change in their body. They can actually be in their body. Because at that point, then people are actually more connected to the healing process versus just me telling them, okay, this is happening. I want somebody to be like, yes, okay, I can feel that my right hip is slowly starting to come back into balance under I'm feeling my shoulders are starting to come back into, equal heights. I'm feeling my neck started to straighten itself back out again. That's way more important to me than he's saying. Oh, look, your neck is straighter. Because what does somebody do with that? If they can't feel that?

Peter Callahan: 33:20

Yes. Feeling is believing if you will. And I think, I think it'd be, it could be challenging certainly for me as like a straight male in our culture who was, I feel like subliminally taught to completely ignore my body, rub some dirt on it, every coach that I had in sports. ignore it. Just keep pushing through as opposed to. Slow down and connect so that we can yeah. Feel into what's useful and what's not. Is this helping or is it not? So important. it's such a gift that you offer, Tim. I really, there's a humility to that and like the, the connection, like you said. So you start with connection. It sounds like you really end with connection both for the person and themselves as well as you and them as. As their practitioner. So

Tim Tynan: 34:04

a lot of that came from my own experience. Transcribed Doing my own healing I felt for a long time, very disconnected to the healing process. Like I was giving my power away to somebody else to do it for me. And I didn't feel as embodied into the experience. I was like, well, how can I bring that into these sessions where people feel. Just as involved in it versus me just doing it to them. It has a much different quality to it. At least, at least I experienced it that way.

Peter Callahan: 34:28

Awesome. So you start with this connection. We do the assessment or the body read, do some muscle testing, which is what, just for people who don't know, maybe you don't know what muscle testing is.

Tim Tynan: 34:38

So essentially what you're doing is you're singling out a specific muscle. In this case, we singled out the right posterior deltoid. And you can introduce, essentially, you can ask questions. And You're essentially asking the underlying, I guess some people call it the subconscious, you know, or the higher self. You're, there's this kind of underlying intelligence in the body. And when you ask certain questions, you'll notice that that muscle can maintain stable on its own. Or when you kind of give some pressure down or you'll notice that the body has to grab other muscles because there's a weakness in that muscle at that point. So it's essentially asking yes and no questions to the body. So if there's a yes, that muscle can maintain strength and stability on its own. And if there's a no. Either that muscle, you know, that, that arm will go weak or what tends to happen is because a lot of us, if our body goes weak, we want to, we'll kind of bring other muscle groups in to keep it, maintain strength, So sometimes you'll notice like all of a sudden someone's bicep or someone's anterior deltoid or lateral deltoid will also come in to keep that arm up because that posterior deltoid has now gone weak. And that's essentially asking the body yes or no questions to figure out what it needs and what's going on.

Peter Callahan: 35:48

Awesome. I love this part because you're really, you're, you are trying to ask and not just like you said before, Saying, well, I'm the, I'm the expert, I've got the training. I, I know what you need. you're really checking in with the person. And to be honest, and there's a part of me, cause I've done muscle testing with a naturopath before in other situations too. And there's, it brings up some skepticism in a part of me. That's just like, so you're asking my subconscious and it's responding back. And I have no awareness of this other than I can definitely feel when my arm is. Sort of either withstanding or not. There's a degree of, of real trust, especially with something that doesn't have, maybe what we were talking about before, all this clearly defined evidence based, which I have so much skepticism around also that it feels irrelevant to me. That's why I can easily open to these things. Cause I'm like. It's all just humans making shit up. This is just a form of doing so that it just feels more in integrity and authentic to me and like, without this, like, oh, no, I know for sure. But it's like, I'm just opening and trying to ask and seeing what responses I get back. Do you have anything else that comes to mind, though, to speak to the skepticism?

Tim Tynan: 36:50

Yeah. Because I, I, along with you, I've, I've been to multiple naturopaths that did muscle testing for different supplements and things like that. And I, and some things work and some things didn't, I find, you know, I very specific about how I do muscle testing because I really believe it, you can get, in trouble with it. I think, you know, I know some people who will use it for like predicting the future. I use it mainly for physical things. I also don't mainly just rely on I'm using a series of analysis I'm using muscle testing. I'm using the body reading. I'm also feeling in my hands. Like, what am I feeling on the table? And there are times where I may. not everyone muscle tests very clear. So there are times I'll muscle test. I mean, they're just like, you know, they're muscling the whole time and I can't really get a clear test, so I'm going to rely more on what I saw visually. Or there may be times that, you know, maybe somebody, couldn't really tell what was going on visually. I had an idea and I muscle tested and they I couldn't really get an idea. I may then trust my intuition more. Like there's multiple ways. To analyze people. And I don't think there's any one technique that's I like you. I do have a healthy skepticism of muscle testing as well. I use it, but I also don't think it's the end all be all. And I think you'd get in trouble with any analysis. That's, this is the way it is, right? It's again, going back to the, I don't know, Okay. This is what's worked for me in the past and staying open to, okay, this may not be what's perfect for this person right now.

Peter Callahan: 38:04

Totally. It's another form of data collection. Like, I love what you're saying. There's multiple ways to assess. And this is just one other tool that you use that sometimes can be extremely useful and clarifying and other times is foggy. Just like any body of research. This was a double blind controlled trial and It's still killed a lot of people who then took the pretty, you know, the FDA approved medication. there's no guarantees. And I love that. I love your humility with it. And again, the openness, this is what I help so many clients with is like, let's run some experiments. I've got some things that have definitely worked for me, I'm doing my best to work with this overconfidence that I know what works. Like this is going to be it. Maybe, maybe only you can know.

Tim Tynan: 38:44

it's literally, it's always new potential and new discoveries are in, I don't know, and the mind and the ego hates, I don't know, because the mind, the ego is the part of you that thinks, well, I got it all figured out. It's like, well, okay. But we obviously don't because we're not doing everything perfectly yet. So

Peter Callahan: 39:00

Yeah. We're not going to go into the underlying societal trends that I see line up with that perfectly. Tim will

Tim Tynan: 39:07

we'll save that

Peter Callahan: 39:08

on some of those and we'll get back. We'll get back to you. If we, if we, if we hear enough interest, maybe we'll, uh, we'll dive more into our thoughts there, but

Tim Tynan: 39:16

something I did want to touch on and I don't know, you know, where this could fit in, but I, I find that kind of explain a little bit. Don's story does a really beautiful job of kind of explaining what set is today and like where he discovered that and kind of just explain how the progression of, additions and subtractions to what we do and how we ended up where we are today. because Don actually started his career as psychotherapy and he did a lot of work and this was back in the 60s. Things like rebirthing and, gestalt therapy and all these different types of breathwork therapies were coming in and very quickly, he started to notice the relationship between the mind and the body So coming from that psychological perspective, he then got his. he went to school for massage therapy because he started to work the mind body connection. And around that time in California, there were new techniques being, discovered in myofascial restructuring called structural integration therapy. And at that time in the 60s, this was the most advanced body work that was coming out. So he went out and he learned structural integration therapy. And structural integration Is the same idea we have where when you have pain in the body, it's not just in one single area. It's this idea you have to clear this whole pattern in the body. And some people might be listening, might have heard of things like rolfing. Rolfing is a specific technique that comes out of structural integration therapy. Again, this idea of clearing these, these whole fascial patterns in the body. Not just working in one specific area. So, Don. Learn structural integration therapy, and within that, that's what I was alluding to before, where you do like, oh, like this, this 10 session protocol, where you come in with neck pain, you're going to work from the feet, you work your way up. And Don saw that, that, that, helped, but what happened after that 10 session protocol is a lot of times people kept falling back into their initial patterns that they, they came in with. So that's where he's like, Oh, okay. Maybe I'll start looking into what's this underlying pattern. And that's when he started, he got introduced and started working in what's called SOT chiropractic and they recognize this twist in the pelvis, this underlying twist. What they do though, is they use blocks and they'll put blocks on the hips. bring the pelvis back into balance. So Don started to do that and then took the structural integration work and added that to the blocking. And what he found was that people would maintain for much longer, again, they started to come back. So he is like, okay. That's where he got introduced to another chiropractor who was looking into cranial osteopathy and looking at the relationship between the cranial bones. in the pelvis. And just like they did with the blocking, they tried to address this twist they found in the pelvis. Instead of using blocking, they saw it mirrored in the cranial bones. Because the wings of your sphenoid actually relate to your ASISs. Your ASISs are those two points in the front of your hips that you can feel, those two bony prominences. And then your occiput relate to your PSISs. You can feel those like on the back, those two points that stick out the back. So that same twist they saw in the pelvis where the left is kind of rotating forward, the right is kind of pulling back. They saw the relationship with those same cranial bones. So that's when they started to play around with that. And they were like, okay, how can we release this? And there was a chiropractor, his name is Dallas Hancock. And he, he and Don created the cortisortion together. so then he took this new thing that he just, that they kind of created. Which was the core extortion release. And then they added that with the structural integration work. And then they saw that, oh my god, people didn't fall back into their previous patterns. The core extortion essentially unlocked the body so they can build into new possibilities. now, they were getting into places that no one had ever been before,'cause no one had released this underlying court distortion pattern. And then Don started to bring in other things along the way that he had learned like little things here and there, different. cranial structural techniques that he created specifically around detoxing the brain. He brought in some more acupressure. He brought in specific breathwork techniques that he had developed way back when he was a psychologist to where it is now, which is kind of this amalgam of all these different things brought together. And in the past couple of years, Don had gone to a conference for, um, I believe it's called the ACIM. It's a collection of kind of forward thinking, osteopaths, medical doctors, dentists, PTs, things like that, and spoke at this conference. And after he spoke, the old school osteopaths who still practice cranial osteopathy, they got up and gave him this massive round of applause. And one of them spoke up and they were like, Do you realize what you did? You just rewrote the book. What you discovered is what we've been trying to work on for centuries. Cranial osteopathy has its genesis in the early 1900s, even late 1800s. And they were blown away. They're like, you just rewrote the book. In 20 years, when we rewrite the textbooks on cranial what you discovered with Dr. Hancock. Is going to be in the first chapter and that's where we are today and now it's slowly moving into where we can potentially add in, add in more down the road, but that's how we got to where we are today.

Peter Callahan: 43:59

Wow, thank you, Tim. Yeah, that is inspiring to hear. And again, not a linear, all right, here's a problem. I'm going to come up with the solution more of like a test, experiment, get feedback, see how it works. And to get that validation from other professionals as well. It can kind of. See that you're building on the existing knowledge and adding in new awareness that sounds like it has more than enough evidence and outcomes. The efficacy is there from enough people. I can add myself into that. They're like, oh, yeah, this is Strange and different, just like putting a pill into your mouth and swallowing it and having that help you feel better used to be, everything is a, a risk of some sort of an experiment, like, all right, let me see, let me see. And it's making me wonder, like, are there any risks? Are there any? fears come up for me about putting new things into my body, let alone trying new things. Is there anything that comes to mind

Tim Tynan: 44:50

you know, kind of, I touched on it before, is that, yeah, some people cannot receive a court assertion release, that's something that we address when we train people, is that you have to Um, you have to test for that because some people, whether it's from surgeries and injuries, they have just fallen so far within that, that if we then release that, it's actually to cause more pain. Now, those people, sometimes, most of the time, you can do a series of soft tissue sections and then go back to do the cortisorius release to get their body to get caught up to it, but some people can't. and yeah, the soft tissue work that we do, and you may attest this can be intense. There, there are points that we are working on parts of the body that have been chronically holding for years, if not your entire life because you were born the cord distortion. So yeah, you need to have a therapist who is highly trained because there are parts of the body that if you're not doing it correctly, you can hurt people. So, yeah, there has to be a level of presence, a level of focus, a level of skill to do these, and the same with the emotional work, things can come up in sessions, like, and there will be, don't like to use the word pain. I'm going to say there's going to be a sensation involved, anytime we're going to grow into a new possibility. we have to feel and see the resistance that's been holding us back. And that's not necessarily a negative thing to be uncomfortable. Sometimes we have to be uncomfortable to grow. So is important to work with a therapist who can stay present. That uncomfortability to keep you grounded as you move through that? For sure.

Peter Callahan: 46:15

Yeah. Definitely my experience There is yeah. Maybe to add a little bit more judgment discomfort that I can experience in moments, but resistance And yet, yeah, from my experience working with you anyway, the trust that I have and yeah, desire to continue to open, I take those moments of, pain or discomfort as an opportunity and I always love your feedback when I succeed just open to it, just allow it, like, all right, this is not causing more, this is releasing pain, not creating more, like really trusting that and opening to whatever pressure you're applying or whatever it might be has been, um, That in itself is healing for me anyway, just a practice. And I think it adds to how much better I feel at the end of each session, to be honest,

Tim Tynan: 46:57

And you may have some feedback on this, but the feedback I've gotten from people is the depth that we work at, or at least I work at and the releases that can be uncomfortable. The after feels very different than a typical, and I'm not using this to disparage it, but a typical deep tissue massage. So in the past, like I've had a deep tissue massage where. Somebody is just taking their elbow and they're going as deep as they can because it's a deep tissue massage. And I can feel my body's resisting and then the after effects don't feel very good. The feedback I've gotten from people is the strokes can be very intense but afterwards there's like the body is like There's an openness, the body is like, yes, yes, exactly. It's like, oh my God. Yeah, because we're not doing it without intention and thought. Like the release is doing it in a very specific direction and a very specific depth to work with the body. So afterwards the body is like, oh my God, yes. That's been holding me back for so long. Thank you for releasing that.

Peter Callahan: 47:56

Thank you.

Tim Tynan: 47:56

You know, there's a, there's a different quality to a depth stroke within set or just you know, very intentional myofascial. Work versus, you know, just someone sticking their elbow in your back during a deep tissue massage.

Peter Callahan: 48:09

Thank you. Yeah, that makes so much sense. Awesome. All right. So landing the plane here, coming in, just final thoughts. someone gets, comes in, they have a first session. What to expect after that? Like how, I know there's a wide range of people who maybe have one session. That's good. But what's, what's the typical, what can you expect for subsequent sessions, sort of the ongoing relationship potentially.

Tim Tynan: 48:32

Depends on what the person is coming in with and what their intention is So if someone's coming in with severe acute pain those type of people I'm gonna recommend to them that they come in Once a week, they're gonna come in, you know, pretty routinely until they can maintain No pain consistently for a week or a week or two and then consistently space them out to a point where they're maintaining that no pain for a month

Peter Callahan: 48:53

Wow. So that's the goal, Tim. I love that as a simple goal. Like, how long can you go without experiencing pain? And that, that's, that's a very trackable data point.

Tim Tynan: 49:02

and if someone's coming in more for, let's say, you know, personal, optimization, let's say that's up to them at that point, you know, like there's, it depends on if you're coming in for acute pain, we work very differently than people who are coming in for, um, Optimization. Optimization is just you come in for a session and you tell me what you want at that point. I recommend you come in more frequently in the beginning just because the unwinding process takes a little bit to kind of get the ball rolling. but you don't have to because you're not in acute pain. But if you're in acute pain, that's where I recommend really commit to doing a few sessions. Weekly, if not bi weekly, to get you a point where you're maintaining that, so you can live your life without pain. That's my goal to get you to.

Peter Callahan: 49:43

Seems like a pretty good place to, to leave it for now, Tim. Live your life without pain. And it's, it's reminded me of this pain is inevitable.

Tim Tynan: 49:51

Right.

Peter Callahan: 49:51

Suffering is optional.

Tim Tynan: 49:53

Right. Exactly. Yeah, so that might be like, to the point you're not suffering, right? That's, that's the point we want to get you. We want to limit suffering as much as possible. You know, physical pain, your back pain might go away, but you're, I mean, you're gonna get in the car and you're gonna have some soreness in your shoulder. Like, we can't get rid of all your pain. But we can try and lessen your suffering as much as possible.

Peter Callahan: 50:14

Yes. I'm in, I'm all into him. Thank you. So maybe, do you mind reminding folks, is there anything else by the way? Is there anything we didn't get to that you wanted to today?

Tim Tynan: 50:24

I mean, this is, you know, this is all probably a whole topic of our day, but there's a whole bunch of other cranial techniques that we can do for people suffering from more cognitive issues. So, like, you know, post concussion issues, migraines, dementia, Alzheimer's, TBIs, and that might have to be another episode down the road of how we explain how that works, but that after we do the cortisolation release, now everything's moving in unison. Then we can apply specific techniques that essentially clean your brain out to allow your brain to start to heal for all those cognitive issues that, can affect people as well. Again, that's probably a whole discussion for another day, but briefly that's for those people as well. There's a lot of benefit to that.

Peter Callahan: 51:01

Thank you. Yeah.

Tim Tynan: 51:01

Beautiful.

Peter Callahan: 51:02

on. Sounds great. So remind I'm thinking both where they can find you. And even, you know, if you're not here in Connecticut with Tim and I, know, somewhere close by where you could drive to Portland, Connecticut. so remind us of your website, where to find you, and then maybe if they want to try and connect with another set practitioner.

Tim Tynan: 51:18

So, um, my website is, um, sanctuarycenterct. com. I'm located in, uh, Portland, Connecticut. they can connect me through my website or if they're looking, if they're not here, you can go on. The main it's just structuralenergetictherapy. com and on that main website there is therapist directory. And we're opening up new trainings now to hopefully get more more of us out there. But, hopefully, you know, wherever you are there, you can find somebody on the main website. That's relatively near you to, uh, to get you some relief.

Peter Callahan: 51:50

Great. I'm just making a note. I'll make sure to get that link in the show notes as well as your website. Maybe social links. We'll get you on LinkedIn sometime soon, like

Tim Tynan: 51:58

know I've got to bite the bullet and do the whole, you know, social media thing, which I'm not great at.

Peter Callahan: 52:05

Nothing you have to do, my friend, and if it feels like a way to bring more love and healing to the world, maybe it's worth moving through the discomfort. I'm, I'm just talking to myself right now.

Tim Tynan: 52:16

As we tell people though, you know, there's only growth and discomfort. I'm like, yeah, but I don't want to do it if it's uncomfortable. Yeah,

Peter Callahan: 52:22

Well, it's feeding into the system once, you know, we're always in this, do I work with the system or do I rebel against it? And I'm still on the both train.

Tim Tynan: 52:30

I know you have to, again, going back to, we have to deal with what is, and at the same time create the other alternative at I tend to be the person who just wants to not be in the what is.

Peter Callahan: 52:42

Aversion. We all, the Buddha said we all have, you know, we all have a lead, greed, hatred, and delusion, whatever the name for those afflictions, maybe. And, So if you're really resistant to things, that kind of thing, it's aversion. I'm definitely an aversive, like, that's my main one. Greed, if you're really coveting, you know, other people's things, you want more, you always want more than you have, that's greed. And I've had a teacher say, I love this, if you're not really sure, if you're unclear on which one you are. Then you're probably delusion, or confusion. That's,

Tim Tynan: 53:14

I could probably take a I could probably say I am all of those at the

Peter Callahan: 53:17

well, we all have, we all have all, it's ultimately like any personality test or

Tim Tynan: 53:21

Right, right, right,

Peter Callahan: 53:22

right, and seeing which one, like, I am constantly in resistance to what is. Especially for things that are very unimportant.

Tim Tynan: 53:29

Yeah. And maybe if we can leave with this, it's something I, because it's brought up is like people listening to this right now, it's like, I don't want to come off as I know it all. like, and I just know, like, we're all going through these journeys together. And I think what helps. Me with clients is that I empathize with what they're going through because I'm dealing with it myself at the same time, and I'm not coming from it. Like I know where to go. I'm saying, well, I'm kind of walking this way. It seems to be helping. And if you want to come this way, it can help, but I don't know. I'm trying my best to, we're all humans. Just trying to be humans at the day and help each other suffering.

Peter Callahan: 54:02

We're all just walking each other home. But it's true. And there's this, the humble confidence is what I'm hearing, Tim. Humble confidence. I'm open and I'm not giving up. That's, it's a gift that you're offering to everyone that you get to work with. So thank you for, for who you are and everything you're doing, Tim. Really appreciate it.

Tim Tynan: 54:25

Thank you for having me. And, uh, thank you for. Try and spread the word as much as possible.

Peter Callahan: 54:30

Absolutely. Thanks, Tim. All right. Talk soon.

Tim Tynan: 54:33

Thank you, Peter.

Peter Callahan: 54:34

Take care.

Tim Tynan: 54:35

Take care.

Peter Callahan: 54:42

Right. Well, another big, thank you to Tim. And thank you so much for being with us on this conversation on the fresh perspectives podcast. If you enjoyed it and found it useful, I'd be so grateful. People willing to take a moment to subscribe. Off some feedback and share it with a friend. You think. They might benefit from listening. Thanks so much for your curiosity. Wishing you courage and compassion. Take care.