{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":0.27,"endTime":5.01,"body":"Welcome everyone to Mystery"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":0.27,"endTime":5.01,"body":"AI Hype Theater 3000, where we seek"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":5.01,"endTime":7.05,"body":"catharsis in this age of AI hype."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":7.47,"endTime":10.8,"body":"We find the worst of it and pop it"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":7.47,"endTime":10.8,"body":"with the sharpest needles we can find."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":11.19,"endTime":13.71,"body":"Along the way, we learn"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":11.19,"endTime":13.71,"body":"to always read the footnotes, and each"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":13.71,"endTime":17.13,"body":"time we think we've reached peak AI"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":13.71,"endTime":17.13,"body":"hype, the summit of Bullshit Mountain,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":17.31,"endTime":18.78,"body":"we discover there's worse to come."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":19.17,"endTime":21.45,"body":"I'm Emily M. Bender, professor"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":19.17,"endTime":21.45,"body":"of Linguistics at the"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":21.45,"endTime":22.59,"body":"University of Washington."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":23.1,"endTime":25.23,"body":"And I'm Alex Hanna,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":23.1,"endTime":25.23,"body":"Director of Research for the"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":25.23,"endTime":27.06,"body":"Distributed AI Research Institute."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":27.72,"endTime":33.63,"body":"This is episode 58, which we're recording"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":27.72,"endTime":33.63,"body":"on May 26th, 2025, and we're here to"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":33.63,"endTime":37.92,"body":"take stock of some of the dizzying"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":33.63,"endTime":37.92,"body":"new hype around consumer products"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":37.92,"endTime":42.81,"body":"of so-called \"AI\" and some delusions"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":37.92,"endTime":42.81,"body":"of grandeur around AI alignment."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":43.35,"endTime":45.57,"body":"Sam Altman's"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":43.35,"endTime":45.57,"body":"hiring the iPhone guy to make his"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":45.57,"endTime":47.37,"body":"synthetic text extruder more shiny."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":47.82,"endTime":52.019,"body":"Anthropic is going on and on about their"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":47.82,"endTime":52.019,"body":"models needing welfare assessments."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":52.35,"endTime":53.01,"body":"But fear not."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":53.01,"endTime":55.47,"body":"We're here to get you off the"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":53.01,"endTime":55.47,"body":"merry-go-round with the reminder"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":55.47,"endTime":58.23,"body":"that if it sounds like technological"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":55.47,"endTime":58.23,"body":"breakthroughs are coming at a"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":58.23,"endTime":62.61,"body":"dizzying pace, it's probably the"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":58.23,"endTime":62.61,"body":"result of a calculated PR campaign."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":64.05,"endTime":65.699,"body":"Okay, we're, we're trying"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":64.05,"endTime":65.699,"body":"something new this time."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":65.699,"endTime":69.839,"body":"We've got a video that we're gonna"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":65.699,"endTime":69.839,"body":"give like the actual MST3K to."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":70.169,"endTime":73.979,"body":"Uh, well not quite because we're"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":70.169,"endTime":73.979,"body":"gonna be pausing it, um, to comment."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":74.669,"endTime":82.319,"body":"This, uh, was posted by Sam Altman himself"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":74.669,"endTime":82.319,"body":"on May 21st, um, on X, the bad place."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":82.589,"endTime":84.21,"body":"Um, where else would he be?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":84.45,"endTime":88.949,"body":"Um, and the, uh, text here is,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":84.45,"endTime":88.949,"body":"\"Thrilled to be partnering with Jony,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":89.249,"endTime":92.909,"body":"IMO the greatest designer in the"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":89.249,"endTime":92.909,"body":"world. Excited to try to create a new"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":92.909,"endTime":97.589,"body":"generation of AI powered computers.\""},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":92.909,"endTime":97.589,"body":"It is a 9 minute 22 second long video."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":97.589,"endTime":99.779,"body":"We are going to play it with"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":97.589,"endTime":99.779,"body":"breaks to talk about it."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":100.26,"endTime":100.919,"body":"Here we go."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":100.919,"endTime":101.939,"body":"Let's see if you can hear it."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":104.7,"endTime":105.719,"body":"View of the Golden Gate Bridge."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":105.779,"endTime":107.55,"body":"I think we have the"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":105.779,"endTime":107.55,"body":"opportunity here to kind of completely"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":107.55,"endTime":110.474,"body":"reimagine what it means to use a computer."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":112.814,"endTime":114.615,"body":"\"San"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":112.814,"endTime":114.615,"body":"Francisco, spring 2025.\""},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":115.784,"endTime":118.814,"body":"Sam is a rare visionary."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":119.564,"endTime":125.634,"body":"He shoulders incredible responsibility,"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":119.564,"endTime":125.634,"body":"but his curiosity, his--"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":126.224,"endTime":131.135,"body":"So first off, so this"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":126.224,"endTime":131.135,"body":"is the voice of Jony Ive, who"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":131.164,"endTime":134.774,"body":"is one of the designers of the"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":131.164,"endTime":134.774,"body":"iPhone and also the Macbook Pro."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":134.774,"endTime":139.094,"body":"And so we're getting all these views of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":134.774,"endTime":139.094,"body":"San Francisco and just the first thing"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":139.094,"endTime":145.214,"body":"with this, um, that Sam shoulders this"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":139.094,"endTime":145.214,"body":"giant responsibility and the kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":145.214,"endTime":148.484,"body":"person that he, he features himself as."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":148.695,"endTime":152.505,"body":"Anyways, I just want to go that, 'cause"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":148.695,"endTime":152.505,"body":"it was terrible just to begin with,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":153.195,"endTime":154.839,"body":"but it gets, it gets worse, so let's--"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":154.839,"endTime":155.279,"body":"It gets worse."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":155.39,"endTime":155.68,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":155.68,"endTime":156.375,"body":"So let's continue."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":156.495,"endTime":156.704,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":156.704,"endTime":158.565,"body":"And, and what I'm doing when I'm"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":156.704,"endTime":158.565,"body":"saying things in the middle, there's"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":158.565,"endTime":161.805,"body":"some text on the screen, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":158.565,"endTime":161.805,"body":"just reading that out loud to make"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":161.805,"endTime":163.755,"body":"sure people get the full effect."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":164.424,"endTime":168.644,"body":"--his humility"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":164.424,"endTime":168.644,"body":"remain utterly inspiring."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":169.929,"endTime":170.589,"body":"\"Two friends.\""},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":170.589,"endTime":171.189,"body":"Aww."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":171.24,"endTime":176.474,"body":"Jony is the deepest"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":171.24,"endTime":176.474,"body":"thinker of anyone I've ever met."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":177.135,"endTime":182.594,"body":"What that leads him to be able"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":177.135,"endTime":182.594,"body":"to come up with is unmatched."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":183.914,"endTime":187.964,"body":"\"Working together.\""},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":183.914,"endTime":187.964,"body":"Here they are walking, from behind."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":187.964,"endTime":190.599,"body":"\"For two years.\" We're walking."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":191.719,"endTime":198.195,"body":"I moved to America, drawn"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":191.719,"endTime":198.195,"body":"by the exhilarating optimism of"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":198.195,"endTime":200.909,"body":"San Francisco and Silicon Valley."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":202.589,"endTime":204.87,"body":"We are sitting at the"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":202.589,"endTime":204.87,"body":"beginning of what I believe will"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":204.87,"endTime":208.26,"body":"be the greatest technological"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":204.87,"endTime":208.26,"body":"revolution of our lifetimes."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":209.07,"endTime":210.51,"body":"Can I just"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":209.07,"endTime":210.51,"body":"say, why does Sam have his hands"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":210.51,"endTime":211.68,"body":"in his pockets all the time?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":212.24,"endTime":213.0,"body":"In these shots."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":214.26,"endTime":216.659,"body":"And I just wanna say"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":214.26,"endTime":216.659,"body":"something, there's a certain kind"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":216.659,"endTime":220.05,"body":"of, um, visual grammar of this video."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":220.05,"endTime":225.269,"body":"It's like iconic shots of San Francisco,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":220.05,"endTime":225.269,"body":"and we're gonna go into a little bit"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":225.269,"endTime":230.31,"body":"about the importance of the, this"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":225.269,"endTime":230.31,"body":"being so in place in San Francisco,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":230.31,"endTime":231.99,"body":"especially when we talk about Jony Ive."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":232.409,"endTime":237.599,"body":"Um, but I mean, it's, you get this, these"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":232.409,"endTime":237.599,"body":"images of the, the Transamerica uh, Tower."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":237.839,"endTime":242.01,"body":"You get these images of the street"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":237.839,"endTime":242.01,"body":"cars, you get these images of the iconic"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":242.01,"endTime":245.01,"body":"hills, um, and all the different areas."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":245.31,"endTime":249.029,"body":"Um, you get like these shots"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":245.31,"endTime":249.029,"body":"of San Francisco Chinatown."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":249.18,"endTime":254.49,"body":"There's all these different elements that"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":249.18,"endTime":254.49,"body":"like want to emplace San Francisco, which"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":254.49,"endTime":259.649,"body":"I think is an interesting rhetorical"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":254.49,"endTime":259.649,"body":"strategy for these two, especially when,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":260.13,"endTime":265.14,"body":"um, you know, Sam Altman tries to be this"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":260.13,"endTime":265.14,"body":"person who is everything everywhere, all"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":265.14,"endTime":267.86,"body":"at once, the way that generative AI is."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":268.13,"endTime":269.88,"body":"So it's a really"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":268.13,"endTime":269.88,"body":"interesting rhetorical move."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":270.24,"endTime":271.47,"body":"Um, yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":271.68,"endTime":273.6,"body":"Where does"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":271.68,"endTime":273.6,"body":"Sam Altman actually live?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":273.6,"endTime":275.37,"body":"Does he live in the city of San Francisco?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":275.88,"endTime":276.66,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":276.66,"endTime":281.37,"body":"I mean, my guess, he probably lives in"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":276.66,"endTime":281.37,"body":"the South Bay, but, uh, just because so"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":281.37,"endTime":287.58,"body":"many people there, but I don't really"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":281.37,"endTime":287.58,"body":"know, just because the kind of housing"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":287.58,"endTime":292.74,"body":"and extravagant lifestyles, uh, that"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":287.58,"endTime":292.74,"body":"folks have tend to be in the South Bay."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":292.95,"endTime":293.01,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":293.01,"endTime":294.15,"body":"'cause that's where his mansion is."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":294.45,"endTime":297.77,"body":"Our producer, Christie Taylor"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":294.45,"endTime":297.77,"body":"says his ranch is in Texas."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":298.06,"endTime":301.77,"body":"That's not really, uh, much"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":298.06,"endTime":301.77,"body":"as much as of a surprise."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":302.82,"endTime":303.18,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":303.72,"endTime":304.02,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":304.02,"endTime":304.77,"body":"Shall we keep going?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":304.86,"endTime":305.55,"body":"Let's do it."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":305.97,"endTime":306.0,"body":"Yeah's."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":306.24,"endTime":307.2,"body":"Gotta get through this thing."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":307.8,"endTime":312.09,"body":"I have a growing sense"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":307.8,"endTime":312.09,"body":"that everything I've learned over"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":312.09,"endTime":319.86,"body":"the last 30 years has led me to"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":312.09,"endTime":319.86,"body":"this place and to this moment."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":320.31,"endTime":322.95,"body":"So this is"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":320.31,"endTime":322.95,"body":"also interesting to, so."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":323.325,"endTime":328.364,"body":"This is, they did a shot of like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":323.325,"endTime":328.364,"body":"um, Vesuvio, um, which is, uh,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":328.364,"endTime":330.734,"body":"actually right next to City Lights,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":328.364,"endTime":330.734,"body":"where we did our book event."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":331.275,"endTime":331.395,"body":"Oh, cool."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":331.455,"endTime":335.325,"body":"Um, and then they had this"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":331.455,"endTime":335.325,"body":"shot of, um, this place that was, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":335.325,"endTime":337.185,"body":"think it looks like it was on Columbus."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":337.695,"endTime":342.585,"body":"Um, so it's the North Beach Hotel"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":337.695,"endTime":342.585,"body":"and then so, and then also this"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":342.675,"endTime":344.565,"body":"shot, the Transamerica Tower."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":344.565,"endTime":346.185,"body":"So many shots of the Transamerica Tower."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":346.19,"endTime":348.104,"body":"It, it makes it"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":346.19,"endTime":348.104,"body":"seem like that's all there is in San"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":348.104,"endTime":349.455,"body":"Francisco, the way they're doing this."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":349.455,"endTime":351.614,"body":"You know, it's actually"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":349.455,"endTime":351.614,"body":"funny, they're not, they're doing no"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":351.614,"endTime":353.895,"body":"shots of the Salesforce Tower, so."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":354.275,"endTime":355.055,"body":"Which is now--"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":355.06,"endTime":356.575,"body":"I, I spotted"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":355.06,"endTime":356.575,"body":"one in the background."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":356.575,"endTime":357.675,"body":"But it is very, like--"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":357.725,"endTime":361.385,"body":"It's not the central, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":357.725,"endTime":361.385,"body":"know, that, you know, like, don't give"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":361.385,"endTime":363.875,"body":"Mark, no, no attention to Salesforce."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":364.055,"endTime":367.775,"body":"Uh, you know, who's a, uh, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":364.055,"endTime":367.775,"body":"know, some kind of a competitor."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":367.925,"endTime":371.045,"body":"i, I'm also watching"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":367.925,"endTime":371.045,"body":"this wondering how many of the people"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":371.045,"endTime":375.395,"body":"who are sort of the background a actors"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":371.045,"endTime":375.395,"body":"in these shots were actually there,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":375.395,"endTime":378.365,"body":"consentfully, and how many of them just"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":375.395,"endTime":378.365,"body":"got filmed because they happened to"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":378.365,"endTime":379.715,"body":"be walking down the street that day?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":380.225,"endTime":383.705,"body":"My sense is that Sam"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":380.225,"endTime":383.705,"body":"Altman's probably such a large figure,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":384.094,"endTime":388.905,"body":"you know, they probably had background"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":384.094,"endTime":388.905,"body":"actors for this, just walking around."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":388.905,"endTime":391.065,"body":"Because I mean, they probably"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":388.905,"endTime":391.065,"body":"closed it like a film shot."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":391.065,"endTime":393.165,"body":"'Cause this is very well"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":391.065,"endTime":393.165,"body":"produced, very shiny."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":393.255,"endTime":393.675,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":393.765,"endTime":396.585,"body":"I mean, I'm guessing this, this"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":393.765,"endTime":396.585,"body":"bartender here, or barista was"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":396.585,"endTime":398.744,"body":"definitely like paid to do this, but--"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":398.864,"endTime":399.285,"body":"Totally."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":399.325,"endTime":400.045,"body":"Couldn't"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":399.325,"endTime":400.045,"body":"tell with the others."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":400.065,"endTime":400.364,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":400.425,"endTime":404.114,"body":"So the text on the screen right now"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":400.425,"endTime":404.114,"body":"says \"Jony Ive,\" and I'm assuming"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":404.114,"endTime":407.835,"body":"it's Ive, because the other thing"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":404.114,"endTime":407.835,"body":"talks about the \"Ive Hive\", so--"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":407.895,"endTime":409.035,"body":"I think it's Ive, yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":409.125,"endTime":413.065,"body":"They, they, they wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":409.125,"endTime":413.065,"body":"do Ee-vay Hive or anything like that."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":413.065,"endTime":413.155,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":413.18,"endTime":413.38,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":413.38,"endTime":413.58,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":413.955,"endTime":414.405,"body":"Here we go."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":417.854,"endTime":418.125,"body":"Sam."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":418.125,"endTime":418.815,"body":"Crossing the street."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":418.905,"endTime":419.715,"body":"Hands in pockets."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":419.805,"endTime":422.104,"body":"Sam Altman enters this coffee shop."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":422.104,"endTime":423.514,"body":"Smiles at his friend."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":423.545,"endTime":424.315,"body":"Morning Jony."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":424.37,"endTime":424.9,"body":"Hey Sam."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":427.875,"endTime":428.895,"body":"Making some coffee."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":428.955,"endTime":429.795,"body":"Making coffee."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":431.625,"endTime":432.075,"body":"Geez."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":432.705,"endTime":434.565,"body":"Taking, taking us back to that reference."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":435.854,"endTime":437.325,"body":"What can"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":435.854,"endTime":437.325,"body":"I say, Gen X represent."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":437.325,"endTime":439.065,"body":"So what is this"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":437.325,"endTime":439.065,"body":"announcement we're talking about?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":439.275,"endTime":441.585,"body":"\"Announcing"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":439.275,"endTime":441.585,"body":"a new company called io.\""},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":442.95,"endTime":445.59,"body":"Two years ago, Jony"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":442.95,"endTime":445.59,"body":"and I started talking about what"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":445.59,"endTime":449.55,"body":"the future of AI and new kinds of"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":445.59,"endTime":449.55,"body":"computers was going to look like."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":450.239,"endTime":451.17,"body":"I was running OpenAI."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":451.77,"endTime":455.79,"body":"Johnny's running a design firm called"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":451.77,"endTime":455.79,"body":"LoveFrom that had established itself"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":455.79,"endTime":460.38,"body":"as really the, I think, densest"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":455.79,"endTime":460.38,"body":"collection of talent that I've ever"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":460.38,"endTime":463.26,"body":"heard of in one place and probably"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":460.38,"endTime":463.26,"body":"has ever existed in the world."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":464.01,"endTime":465.87,"body":"\"Probably has"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":464.01,"endTime":465.87,"body":"ever existed in the world.\""},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":466.41,"endTime":466.92,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":467.28,"endTime":471.51,"body":"The way that, there's another thing"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":467.28,"endTime":471.51,"body":"and, uh, I'm thinking a lot with this"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":471.51,"endTime":476.974,"body":"material too, 'cause, uh, you and I,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":471.51,"endTime":476.974,"body":"Emily, are both reading, uh, Karen Hao's"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":477.12,"endTime":482.335,"body":"uh, excellent new book, \"Empire of AI\","},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":477.12,"endTime":482.335,"body":"which came out, um, shortly after ours,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":482.43,"endTime":486.78,"body":"and we're having a conversation with"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":482.43,"endTime":486.78,"body":"her at Data \u0026 Society, uh, in June."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":487.29,"endTime":490.29,"body":"And like there's discussion of talent."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":490.29,"endTime":493.14,"body":"It makes me think about that a lot,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":490.29,"endTime":493.14,"body":"about the competition of talent."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":493.14,"endTime":497.34,"body":"This idea that like, intelligence is"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":493.14,"endTime":497.34,"body":"like, you really have to get these"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":497.34,"endTime":499.469,"body":"super people who are like very talented."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":500.13,"endTime":506.88,"body":"And it's just so interesting to me how,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":500.13,"endTime":506.88,"body":"how, how AI people talk about like work"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":506.91,"endTime":508.71,"body":"versus how they talk about like talent."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":509.609,"endTime":514.679,"body":"Um, and there's sort of this like"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":509.609,"endTime":514.679,"body":"very ideal idealistic way of thinking"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":514.679,"endTime":517.679,"body":"about like, if you just sort of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":514.679,"endTime":517.679,"body":"have this sort of high amount of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":517.679,"endTime":521.669,"body":"intelligence, then you're like well"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":517.679,"endTime":521.669,"body":"suited for this particular sort of work."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":522.03,"endTime":525.869,"body":"Um, and we talked about this"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":522.03,"endTime":525.869,"body":"with the AI 2027 thing as well."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":526.619,"endTime":530.224,"body":"So it's really interesting and yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":526.619,"endTime":530.224,"body":"just want to remark on that one piece."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":530.489,"endTime":530.819,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":530.999,"endTime":533.55,"body":"And it it's a super indivi,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":530.999,"endTime":533.55,"body":"individualistic way of"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":533.55,"endTime":534.329,"body":"looking at things too."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":534.329,"endTime":534.39,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":534.42,"endTime":537.51,"body":"Like the, if you're gonna have a team of"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":534.42,"endTime":537.51,"body":"people working on something from their"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":537.51,"endTime":540.63,"body":"point of view, all that matters that each"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":537.51,"endTime":540.63,"body":"individual person scores high on this"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":540.63,"endTime":542.21,"body":"notion of, of talent or intelligence."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":542.21,"endTime":545.88,"body":"And not that there's, you know, good"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":542.21,"endTime":545.88,"body":"cohesiveness or anything else, you know,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":545.969,"endTime":547.41,"body":"that sort of looked at the group level."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":547.709,"endTime":548.069,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":548.13,"endTime":548.43,"body":"Um."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":549.255,"endTime":549.705,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":549.915,"endTime":550.725,"body":"Starting it again."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":551.085,"endTime":553.785,"body":"And it became very"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":551.085,"endTime":553.785,"body":"quickly apparent to both of us"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":554.175,"endTime":555.435,"body":"that we needed a third company."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":555.555,"endTime":556.395,"body":"A year ago."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":556.395,"endTime":558.375,"body":"I founded, um--"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":559.035,"endTime":560.145,"body":"I just wanna"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":559.035,"endTime":560.145,"body":"point out, they're talking about"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":560.145,"endTime":562.725,"body":"they need a third company, but"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":560.145,"endTime":562.725,"body":"that's not where this ends up."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":563.005,"endTime":563.495,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":564.675,"endTime":571.74,"body":"--io with Scott Cannon,"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":564.675,"endTime":571.74,"body":"Evans Hanky, and Tang Tan, who are"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":572.385,"endTime":574.695,"body":"the most extraordinary engineers."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":574.785,"endTime":579.285,"body":"They have built a team of remarkable"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":574.785,"endTime":579.285,"body":"subject matter experts that range"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":579.315,"endTime":583.935,"body":"from, um, hardware and software"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":579.315,"endTime":583.935,"body":"engineering, physicists, researchers,"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":584.445,"endTime":587.235,"body":"um, product manufacturing experts."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":587.325,"endTime":591.095,"body":"And so io is merging with OpenAI."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":591.375,"endTime":592.485,"body":"We need a third company."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":592.515,"endTime":593.965,"body":"So it's merging with OpenAI."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":594.255,"endTime":597.405,"body":"But also the subject matter"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":594.255,"endTime":597.405,"body":"experts framing was bugging me."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":597.715,"endTime":601.595,"body":"Right, the, um, this is a, once again,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":597.715,"endTime":601.595,"body":"the, the logic of domains, right?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":601.595,"endTime":602.255,"body":"Keep going?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":602.925,"endTime":604.335,"body":"Yeah let's do it."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":605.755,"endTime":608.835,"body":"Formed with the mission of"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":605.755,"endTime":608.835,"body":"figuring out how to create a family of"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":608.835,"endTime":614.625,"body":"devices that would let people use AI to"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":608.835,"endTime":614.625,"body":"create all sorts of wonderful things,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":615.735,"endTime":617.625,"body":"\"Would"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":615.735,"endTime":617.625,"body":"let people use AI.\""},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":618.345,"endTime":618.885,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":619.155,"endTime":622.185,"body":"The, on the text on the screen,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":619.155,"endTime":622.185,"body":"\"A family of AI products.\""},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":623.055,"endTime":623.444,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":625.395,"endTime":631.215,"body":"The first one we've been"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":625.395,"endTime":631.215,"body":"working on I think is, has just"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":631.215,"endTime":634.875,"body":"completely captured our imagination."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":635.145,"endTime":637.005,"body":"You know, Jony called"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":635.145,"endTime":637.005,"body":"one day and said, this is the"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":637.005,"endTime":638.355,"body":"best work our team has ever done."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":638.625,"endTime":638.685,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":638.685,"endTime":641.925,"body":"I mean, Johnny did the iPhone,"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":638.685,"endTime":641.925,"body":"Johnny did the MacBook Pro."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":641.925,"endTime":646.334,"body":"I mean, these are, these are like the"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":641.925,"endTime":646.334,"body":"defining ways people use technology."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":646.365,"endTime":647.535,"body":"It's hard to beat those things."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":648.584,"endTime":649.995,"body":"Can we talk for"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":648.584,"endTime":649.995,"body":"a moment about what he means by"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":649.995,"endTime":651.445,"body":"technology in that statement?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":652.515,"endTime":654.855,"body":"Right, so \"these are the defining"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":652.515,"endTime":654.855,"body":"ways that people use technology\"."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":654.855,"endTime":658.035,"body":"He's talking about two"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":654.855,"endTime":658.035,"body":"Apple products only."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":658.515,"endTime":658.725,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":658.785,"endTime":663.795,"body":"Um, so technology has"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":658.785,"endTime":663.795,"body":"to mean like computers and software,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":664.065,"endTime":664.425,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":664.905,"endTime":665.175,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":665.175,"endTime":668.505,"body":"He is certainly not, I mean, the scoping"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":665.175,"endTime":668.505,"body":"of technology is always kind of this,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":669.105,"endTime":671.385,"body":"this computational notion, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":671.66,"endTime":675.975,"body":"It's not a simpler sort of set of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":671.66,"endTime":675.975,"body":"technologies, but I mean, you know--"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":675.975,"endTime":677.58,"body":"Or broader"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":675.975,"endTime":677.58,"body":"set of technologies, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":677.58,"endTime":677.86,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":677.925,"endTime":678.285,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":678.285,"endTime":682.395,"body":"So it's like really scoping this"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":678.285,"endTime":682.395,"body":"into certain kinds of areas in"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":682.395,"endTime":686.685,"body":"which these two are considered to"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":682.395,"endTime":686.685,"body":"be ex experts or visionaries, right?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":686.865,"endTime":687.825,"body":"They have all the talent."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":687.975,"endTime":688.335,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":688.75,"endTime":688.9,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":689.03,"endTime":689.9,"body":"Those are really wonderful."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":690.295,"endTime":692.955,"body":"Jony recently gave me one of the"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":690.295,"endTime":692.955,"body":"prototypes of the device for the"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":692.955,"endTime":696.885,"body":"first time to take home, and I've been"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":692.955,"endTime":696.885,"body":"able to live with it, and I think it"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":696.885,"endTime":700.935,"body":"is the coolest piece of technology"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":696.885,"endTime":700.935,"body":"that the world will have ever seen."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":701.235,"endTime":706.14,"body":"The products that we"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":701.235,"endTime":706.14,"body":"are using to deliver and connect"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":706.14,"endTime":710.55,"body":"us to unimaginable technology."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":710.849,"endTime":712.229,"body":"They're decades old."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":712.859,"endTime":713.16,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":713.489,"endTime":718.199,"body":"And so it's just common"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":713.489,"endTime":718.199,"body":"sense to at least think, surely there's"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":718.199,"endTime":720.18,"body":"something beyond these legacy products."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":721.589,"endTime":721.829,"body":"I'm sorry."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":721.829,"endTime":725.01,"body":"The common sense remark is cracked"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":721.829,"endTime":725.01,"body":"me up because they're trying to"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":725.01,"endTime":730.41,"body":"put this contrast between, um,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":725.01,"endTime":730.41,"body":"the, uh, you know, the decades old"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":730.41,"endTime":732.54,"body":"laptop, cell phone, smartphone idea."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":732.939,"endTime":738.779,"body":"And the amazing new, you know,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":732.939,"endTime":738.779,"body":"whatever this AGI thing is, you"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":739.319,"endTime":740.55,"body":"know, fake thing they've imagined."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":740.714,"endTime":741.719,"body":"Right, right."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":741.75,"endTime":745.41,"body":"I mean, the decades old and I mean,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":741.75,"endTime":745.41,"body":"when is the, the iPhone itself is"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":745.41,"endTime":747.9,"body":"what, I think about two decades old."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":748.05,"endTime":750.089,"body":"It's around like 2003."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":750.51,"endTime":752.67,"body":"And so it's, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":750.51,"endTime":752.67,"body":"it's ancient by now."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":752.67,"endTime":752.969,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":752.969,"endTime":755.579,"body":"I mean, I think that's so bizarre."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":755.775,"endTime":756.064,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":756.069,"endTime":756.3,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":756.54,"endTime":759.81,"body":"And I also wanted to add earlier in"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":756.54,"endTime":759.81,"body":"there, uh, Altman says I got to bring"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":759.81,"endTime":761.91,"body":"the thing home and I could live with it."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":762.839,"endTime":766.02,"body":"By which he meant I got to"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":762.839,"endTime":766.02,"body":"experience having it close to me"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":766.02,"endTime":768.48,"body":"in my life, but it also sounded"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":766.02,"endTime":768.48,"body":"like, yeah, it was good enough."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":768.48,"endTime":769.11,"body":"I could live with it."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":770.189,"endTime":770.49,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":771.99,"endTime":775.02,"body":"We have like magic"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":771.99,"endTime":775.02,"body":"intelligence in the cloud."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":775.319,"endTime":776.189,"body":"If I wanted to ask--"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":777.27,"endTime":777.449,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":777.449,"endTime":779.4,"body":"\"We have like"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":777.449,"endTime":779.4,"body":"magic intelligence in the cloud.\""},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":779.79,"endTime":780.24,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":780.449,"endTime":781.53,"body":"So already, yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":781.53,"endTime":781.86,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":781.86,"endTime":782.339,"body":"Awful."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":783.52,"endTime":784.949,"body":"ChatGPT is"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":783.52,"endTime":784.949,"body":"something right now."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":786.48,"endTime":787.86,"body":"About something we had"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":786.48,"endTime":787.86,"body":"talked about earlier."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":788.01,"endTime":789.719,"body":"Think about what would happen,"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":788.01,"endTime":789.719,"body":"I would like reach down."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":789.719,"endTime":791.819,"body":"I would get out my laptop,"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":789.719,"endTime":791.819,"body":"I'd open it up, I'd launch a"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":791.819,"endTime":793.11,"body":"web browser, I'd start typing."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":793.11,"endTime":795.78,"body":"I'd have to like explain that thing"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":793.11,"endTime":795.78,"body":"and I would hit enter and I would"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":795.78,"endTime":796.829,"body":"wait and I would get a response."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":797.879,"endTime":800.819,"body":"And that is at the limit of what"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":797.879,"endTime":800.819,"body":"the current tool of a laptop can do."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":801.449,"endTime":801.81,"body":"But--"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":802.65,"endTime":802.92,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":804.479,"endTime":804.749,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":804.749,"endTime":807.9,"body":"So this is, so this is very,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":804.749,"endTime":807.9,"body":"very ridiculous, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":807.9,"endTime":813.129,"body":"I mean, he is, he is like, I'd have to"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":807.9,"endTime":813.129,"body":"do all this stuff to get to the ChatGPT"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":813.15,"endTime":817.589,"body":"and like what if I could, what if we had"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":813.15,"endTime":817.589,"body":"someone kinda luxury surveillance tool"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":817.589,"endTime":822.959,"body":"that, you know, had something or had some"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":817.589,"endTime":822.959,"body":"device or something that would be so, um,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":823.77,"endTime":829.229,"body":"kind of embodied or, or, um, ubiquitous,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":823.77,"endTime":829.229,"body":"you know, kind of on the, on the set of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":829.229,"endTime":833.249,"body":"like ubiquitous computing where it's like"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":829.229,"endTime":833.249,"body":"always listening, that it would just know"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":833.28,"endTime":835.019,"body":"I, I don't have to explain this thing."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":835.41,"endTime":838.68,"body":"So this being sold as sort of this"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":835.41,"endTime":838.68,"body":"a matter, a matter of convenience."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":838.68,"endTime":839.43,"body":"It makes me think of."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":839.969,"endTime":845.009,"body":"Chris Gilliard's luxury surveillance,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":839.969,"endTime":845.009,"body":"you know, as a, as a, uh, uh,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":845.049,"endTime":846.469,"body":"as a, as a thing here, right?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":846.9,"endTime":847.469,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":847.469,"endTime":850.65,"body":"The, the other part of this that, that"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":847.469,"endTime":850.65,"body":"got to me was when he says, this is"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":850.65,"endTime":854.969,"body":"at the limit of what the laptop as a"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":850.65,"endTime":854.969,"body":"tool can do, like completely ignores"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":854.969,"endTime":856.319,"body":"everything else you do with a laptop."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":856.614,"endTime":861.81,"body":"Like to Altman the way he's scoping this,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":856.614,"endTime":861.81,"body":"it's all about what the experience of"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":861.81,"endTime":865.8,"body":"connecting to the synthetic text extruding"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":861.81,"endTime":865.8,"body":"machine is like and nothing else."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":866.129,"endTime":866.31,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":866.31,"endTime":868.02,"body":"And that's, that's sort of"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":866.31,"endTime":868.02,"body":"the, the pinnacle of this."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":868.259,"endTime":870.54,"body":"I also wanna remark on the"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":868.259,"endTime":870.54,"body":"gesture that he used when he"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":870.54,"endTime":872.069,"body":"described opening a web browser."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":872.069,"endTime":877.81,"body":"He did this like upwards flick with"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":872.069,"endTime":877.81,"body":"two fingers that does not correspond"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":877.879,"endTime":880.039,"body":"to how I open a web browser anywhere."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":880.519,"endTime":884.599,"body":"Um, and I'm curious if it's like this,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":880.519,"endTime":884.599,"body":"it looked almost like, you know, when"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":884.599,"endTime":889.699,"body":"you have in sci-fi TV and movies, the"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":884.599,"endTime":889.699,"body":"person interacting with the computer"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":889.699,"endTime":891.199,"body":"where they're, they're just gesturing."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":891.305,"endTime":893.749,"body":"It looked like that kind"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":891.305,"endTime":893.749,"body":"of a gesture, which is odd."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":894.289,"endTime":894.409,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":894.859,"endTime":895.189,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":895.189,"endTime":896.029,"body":"Keep going guys."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":896.119,"endTime":896.389,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":896.479,"endTime":898.849,"body":"I think this technology"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":896.479,"endTime":898.849,"body":"deserves something much better."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":899.509,"endTime":901.43,"body":"\"A partnership"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":899.509,"endTime":901.43,"body":"based on friendship.\""},{"speaker":"Unknown speaker","startTime":901.489,"endTime":902.629,"body":"So how did it all begin?"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":902.749,"endTime":905.629,"body":"So my son, Charlie,"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":902.749,"endTime":905.629,"body":"was the first, the first person"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":905.629,"endTime":907.949,"body":"in the family to use ChatGPT."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":907.969,"endTime":911.3,"body":"And he said, you've, you've just"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":907.969,"endTime":911.3,"body":"got, you've got to meet Sam."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":911.569,"endTime":915.079,"body":"I, I met Jony's family"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":911.569,"endTime":915.079,"body":"relatively quickly after me and Jony."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":915.229,"endTime":916.55,"body":"Wait a minute,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":915.229,"endTime":916.55,"body":"I'm stopping too much, but I"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":916.55,"endTime":917.839,"body":"can't take this in large doses."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":918.109,"endTime":923.119,"body":"And it says something about the cultural"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":918.109,"endTime":923.119,"body":"milieu that that kid is growing up in,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":923.389,"endTime":927.619,"body":"that he tries a piece of technology"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":923.389,"endTime":927.619,"body":"and says to his dad, you have to"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":927.619,"endTime":928.879,"body":"meet the person who developed this."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":929.42,"endTime":930.109,"body":"Yeah, right."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":930.109,"endTime":935.629,"body":"I mean, you're already, I mean, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":930.109,"endTime":935.629,"body":"Jony Ive is this kind of design,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":935.959,"endTime":937.459,"body":"you know, central figure, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":937.459,"endTime":941.359,"body":"I mean, and so there is"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":937.459,"endTime":941.359,"body":"access to doing that."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":942.829,"endTime":944.93,"body":"Um, but yeah, that's, it's, it's, yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":944.93,"endTime":947.359,"body":"We have to stop this 'cause it's,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":944.93,"endTime":947.359,"body":"it's, it's pretty hard to watch."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":949.189,"endTime":949.43,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":949.43,"endTime":949.699,"body":"More."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":950.06,"endTime":952.729,"body":"They were sort of just like,"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":950.06,"endTime":952.729,"body":"it was an impossibly lovely family."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":953.254,"endTime":956.524,"body":"I was just thinking what a privilege it"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":953.254,"endTime":956.524,"body":"is to really connect with somebody new."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":956.624,"endTime":958.984,"body":"And it's, it's, it hasn't"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":956.624,"endTime":958.984,"body":"happened to me in a long time."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":958.984,"endTime":959.164,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":959.944,"endTime":960.334,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":960.694,"endTime":963.964,"body":"What a privilege it is to really"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":960.694,"endTime":963.964,"body":"connect with somebody new that's"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":963.964,"endTime":966.484,"body":"a little foreshadowing for a"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":963.964,"endTime":966.484,"body":"Fresh AI Hell thing that's coming."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":966.544,"endTime":967.204,"body":"Just saying."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":967.774,"endTime":968.404,"body":"That's true."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":968.404,"endTime":968.854,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":968.854,"endTime":974.734,"body":"I, um, and I, the, the, the"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":968.854,"endTime":974.734,"body":"reason I think that it happened is we"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":974.734,"endTime":980.404,"body":"had both a very strong shared vision, we"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":974.734,"endTime":980.404,"body":"maybe didn't know exactly where we were"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":980.404,"endTime":984.545,"body":"gonna go, but like, the direction of"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":980.404,"endTime":984.545,"body":"the, like the force vector felt clear."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":986.045,"endTime":986.704,"body":"Force vector?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":988.199,"endTime":990.604,"body":"I, I love"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":988.199,"endTime":990.604,"body":"how the, the, it's great."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":990.664,"endTime":995.074,"body":"I mean, it's the kind of thing about par,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":990.664,"endTime":995.074,"body":"like borrowing things from physics and"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":995.074,"endTime":1001.134,"body":"then saying like, and then applying it"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":995.074,"endTime":1001.134,"body":"to something that you're, anyways, yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1001.14,"endTime":1003.084,"body":"Weird meta, weird metaphor,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1001.14,"endTime":1003.084,"body":"but yeah, go ahead."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1003.084,"endTime":1005.094,"body":"Weird metaphor, but"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1003.084,"endTime":1005.094,"body":"it also really fits in with this idea"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1005.094,"endTime":1010.305,"body":"that there's the, the possible like"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1005.094,"endTime":1010.305,"body":"space of things you can develop just"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1010.585,"endTime":1016.285,"body":"exists a priori and, you know, Altman's"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1010.585,"endTime":1016.285,"body":"like how, how fast and like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1016.675,"endTime":1018.235,"body":"straight to that thing, can I go?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1018.834,"endTime":1019.135,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1019.675,"endTime":1020.005,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1021.235,"endTime":1024.085,"body":"And then this like deeply"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1021.235,"endTime":1024.085,"body":"shared sense of values about what"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1024.085,"endTime":1027.925,"body":"technology should be when technology's"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1024.085,"endTime":1027.925,"body":"been really good, when it's gone wrong."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1028.074,"endTime":1031.074,"body":"I mean, that, that was in a"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1028.074,"endTime":1031.074,"body":"way, one of the basis, I think for one of"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1031.074,"endTime":1038.514,"body":"the reasons Sam and I clicked was despite"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1031.074,"endTime":1038.514,"body":"our wonderfully different journeys to"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1038.514,"endTime":1044.994,"body":"this point, our motivations and values"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1038.514,"endTime":1044.994,"body":"are completely the same in my experience."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1044.994,"endTime":1053.935,"body":"If you are trying to have a sense of where"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1044.994,"endTime":1053.935,"body":"you are going to end up, um, you shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1053.935,"endTime":1058.315,"body":"look at the technology, you should look at"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1053.935,"endTime":1058.315,"body":"the people who are making the decisions."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1059.725,"endTime":1060.4,"body":"What"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1059.725,"endTime":1060.4,"body":"do we think about that?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1060.59,"endTime":1061.56,"body":"Yeah, just pausing there."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1061.915,"endTime":1065.455,"body":"I mean, it's, it's interesting too,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1061.915,"endTime":1065.455,"body":"I mean, thinking about the people."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1066.505,"endTime":1070.134,"body":"Again, this is me thinking"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1066.505,"endTime":1070.134,"body":"a lot with Karen's book too."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1070.165,"endTime":1073.764,"body":"I mean, 'cause a lot of, one of the things"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1070.165,"endTime":1073.764,"body":"that Karen says in her book that I think"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1073.764,"endTime":1078.054,"body":"was really compelling, and she had this"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1073.764,"endTime":1078.054,"body":"interview, if you wanna get a sneak peek"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1078.054,"endTime":1082.074,"body":"of it, she did a nice interview with,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1078.054,"endTime":1082.074,"body":"uh, Justin Hendrix at Tech Policy Press"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1082.554,"endTime":1085.554,"body":"on, um, one of his more recent shows."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1086.065,"endTime":1091.465,"body":"And one of the things that Karen"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1086.065,"endTime":1091.465,"body":"says is, you know, Sam Altman"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1091.495,"endTime":1093.715,"body":"is this remarkable storyteller."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1094.284,"endTime":1099.505,"body":"And the kind of use of that term"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1094.284,"endTime":1099.505,"body":"storyteller is like, you know, this"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1099.505,"endTime":1104.215,"body":"is the kind of individual that will,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1099.505,"endTime":1104.215,"body":"will, like, want you to bring you along"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1104.215,"endTime":1110.725,"body":"with something, is and, and tries to"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1104.215,"endTime":1110.725,"body":"tell, like spin a very good story."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1110.725,"endTime":1113.755,"body":"And then there's another anecdote in"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1110.725,"endTime":1113.755,"body":"the book, which is like, you could"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1113.755,"endTime":1119.409,"body":"be having this very good story time"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1113.755,"endTime":1119.409,"body":"with him, but you've landed on not"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1119.409,"endTime":1120.85,"body":"getting past where you started."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1122.109,"endTime":1124.81,"body":"So very good at kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1122.109,"endTime":1124.81,"body":"spinning a, spinning a tail."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1124.81,"endTime":1129.009,"body":"And so this is also something that"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1124.81,"endTime":1129.009,"body":"she talks about with regards to things"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1129.009,"endTime":1133.824,"body":"that, uh, former Y Combinator or I"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1129.009,"endTime":1133.824,"body":"think he founded Y Combinator, uh, Paul"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1133.824,"endTime":1138.069,"body":"Graham also said about him, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1133.824,"endTime":1138.069,"body":"was like very good at telling a story."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1138.46,"endTime":1142.27,"body":"Um, and then, uh, I think,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1138.46,"endTime":1142.27,"body":"you know, there's some other"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1142.33,"endTime":1143.739,"body":"kind of deployments of that."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1143.739,"endTime":1150.1,"body":"And so it's, it's really interesting to"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1143.739,"endTime":1150.1,"body":"hear about these kind of small takes from"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1150.159,"endTime":1153.339,"body":"allies about how Altman is as a person."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1154.029,"endTime":1154.299,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1154.75,"endTime":1157.719,"body":"As you're talking, I was looking"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1154.75,"endTime":1157.719,"body":"again at, at Altman's text here."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1157.719,"endTime":1157.839,"body":"Oh."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1157.839,"endTime":1161.62,"body":"And I'm noticing that his avatar is"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1157.839,"endTime":1161.62,"body":"one of the Ghibli-fied pictures, ugh."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1162.19,"endTime":1166.27,"body":"Um, and this text says, \"Excited to"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1162.19,"endTime":1166.27,"body":"try to create a new generation of AI"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1166.299,"endTime":1172.94,"body":"powered computers.\" If there's a thing"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1166.299,"endTime":1172.94,"body":"called AI, if they're calling ChatGPT"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1172.96,"endTime":1175.81,"body":"\"AI\", isn't it running on the computer?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1176.23,"endTime":1178.21,"body":"It's not powering the computer."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1178.21,"endTime":1178.75,"body":"But anyway."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1179.26,"endTime":1182.02,"body":"Yeah, isn't"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1179.26,"endTime":1182.02,"body":"that, that has to, anyways."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1182.56,"endTime":1183.19,"body":"Questions."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1183.38,"endTime":1184.01,"body":"Questions."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1184.63,"endTime":1189.82,"body":"And you should look at what"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1184.63,"endTime":1189.82,"body":"drives, motivates, and look at values."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1190.33,"endTime":1191.32,"body":"\"San Francisco.\""},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1192.88,"endTime":1197.409,"body":"San Francisco has been like"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1192.88,"endTime":1197.409,"body":"a mythical place in American history and"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1197.409,"endTime":1199.03,"body":"maybe in world history, in some sense."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1199.12,"endTime":1203.56,"body":"It is the city that I most"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1199.12,"endTime":1203.56,"body":"associate with the sort of leading"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1203.56,"endTime":1206.469,"body":"edge of culture and technology."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1206.469,"endTime":1207.6,"body":"This city has en--"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1208.36,"endTime":1214.54,"body":"New York, London,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1208.36,"endTime":1214.54,"body":"Tokyo, Bangkok, Paris, Prague,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1215.23,"endTime":1216.67,"body":"many places would like a word."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1217.6,"endTime":1219.73,"body":"Well, also this,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1217.6,"endTime":1219.73,"body":"and we'll talk about this a"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1219.73,"endTime":1221.29,"body":"little bit in our next artifact."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1221.29,"endTime":1225.28,"body":"I mean, the way that, you know, like"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1221.29,"endTime":1225.28,"body":"there's been many people who've talked"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1225.28,"endTime":1229.51,"body":"about the ways in which the tech"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1225.28,"endTime":1229.51,"body":"industry has ruined San Francisco, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1229.514,"endTime":1236.094,"body":"I mean, the way in which San Francisco,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1229.514,"endTime":1236.094,"body":"you know, up to a place, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1236.094,"endTime":1242.904,"body":"time in like the, the 2000s or even"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1236.094,"endTime":1242.904,"body":"2010s had been a place where there hadn't"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1242.904,"endTime":1247.435,"body":"been that much of this displaced, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1242.904,"endTime":1247.435,"body":"know, this extensive displacement that"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1247.435,"endTime":1252.19,"body":"was really spurred by kind of the large"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1247.435,"endTime":1252.19,"body":"workforce from Google and Facebook."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1252.779,"endTime":1258.054,"body":"Many of that had been restricted"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1252.779,"endTime":1258.054,"body":"to Silicon Valley, Santa Clara,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1258.145,"endTime":1263.935,"body":"um, County, um, those, those areas"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1258.145,"endTime":1263.935,"body":"that are more on the peninsula."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1264.235,"endTime":1266.725,"body":"And now you have this thing where"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1264.235,"endTime":1266.725,"body":"you're trying to attract all of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1266.725,"endTime":1272.065,"body":"these pe-- \"talented\" people,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1266.725,"endTime":1272.065,"body":"quote unquote, to come to the area."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1272.065,"endTime":1276.594,"body":"And then it has driven the San Francisco"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1272.065,"endTime":1276.594,"body":"market in such a place where it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1276.594,"endTime":1281.725,"body":"just an incredible amount of, um,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1276.594,"endTime":1281.725,"body":"displacement and it's driven that"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1281.725,"endTime":1283.915,"body":"market really high in terms of rents."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1284.364,"endTime":1289.179,"body":"Um, and dis--displaced a lot of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1284.364,"endTime":1289.179,"body":"people in neighborhoods that were"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1289.179,"endTime":1291.19,"body":"traditionally Black and brown."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1291.19,"endTime":1296.71,"body":"So the Fillmore neighborhood, um,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1291.19,"endTime":1296.71,"body":"the, you know, the Mission is, uh, one"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1296.71,"endTime":1301.239,"body":"of these places that is continually"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1296.71,"endTime":1301.239,"body":"trying to resist displacement."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1301.63,"endTime":1304.63,"body":"Um, and then also San Francisco Chinatown."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1304.989,"endTime":1309.639,"body":"Um, and so there's all these"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1304.989,"endTime":1309.639,"body":"different kinds of, um, anyways,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1309.639,"endTime":1311.469,"body":"there's like a long history of this."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1311.8,"endTime":1315.1,"body":"Uh, you know, there's, there's"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1311.8,"endTime":1315.1,"body":"folks that you can read on this."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1315.159,"endTime":1319.69,"body":"Uh, you know, one person just off"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1315.159,"endTime":1319.69,"body":"the top of my head is, uh, Erin"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1319.69,"endTime":1324.94,"body":"McElroy with the Anti-Eviction Mapping"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1319.69,"endTime":1324.94,"body":"Project, who, who, um, talks about"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1324.94,"endTime":1326.59,"body":"displacement and gentrification."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1327.759,"endTime":1328.029,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1328.179,"endTime":1328.63,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1328.63,"endTime":1330.4,"body":"So more on San Francisco from these two."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1330.58,"endTime":1335.65,"body":"--Enabled and being the"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1330.58,"endTime":1335.65,"body":"place of the creation of so much."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1335.71,"endTime":1337.87,"body":"The fact that all of"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1335.71,"endTime":1337.87,"body":"those things happened in the Bay"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1337.87,"endTime":1341.679,"body":"Area and not anywhere else on this"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1337.87,"endTime":1341.679,"body":"gigantic planet we live on, um, I"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1341.679,"endTime":1343.09,"body":"think is really not an accident."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1343.54,"endTime":1347.875,"body":"There's a lot of like weird, quirky"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1343.54,"endTime":1347.875,"body":"details about geography that I think"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1347.875,"endTime":1349.465,"body":"matter, that the way the city is set up."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1349.554,"endTime":1351.355,"body":"You know, I"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1349.554,"endTime":1351.355,"body":"mean the absurd hills."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1351.895,"endTime":1355.525,"body":"Okay, so first"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1351.895,"endTime":1355.525,"body":"of all, the claim that all of this"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1355.525,"endTime":1359.185,"body":"stuff has happened only in Silicon"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1355.525,"endTime":1359.185,"body":"Valley feels pretty circular."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1359.215,"endTime":1363.324,"body":"'cause they're only gonna count stuff that"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1359.215,"endTime":1363.324,"body":"happened in Silicon Valley, for one thing."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1363.654,"endTime":1366.355,"body":"Um, and then they're trying"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1363.654,"endTime":1366.355,"body":"to connect it to the actual"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1366.355,"endTime":1368.185,"body":"physical geography of the place."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1369.054,"endTime":1371.844,"body":"Like, and they're not even saying it's"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1369.054,"endTime":1371.844,"body":"just because it's sunny all the time."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1372.955,"endTime":1377.275,"body":"The hills are an interesting"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1372.955,"endTime":1377.275,"body":"thing too, because I actually, uh, there,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1377.335,"endTime":1383.125,"body":"I mean the hill aspect of it is very"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1377.335,"endTime":1383.125,"body":"interesting in so far as there's elements"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1383.125,"endTime":1388.705,"body":"of San Francisco geography that have not"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1383.125,"endTime":1388.705,"body":"made it as amenable to certain types of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1388.705,"endTime":1391.255,"body":"like pub, like public transit as possible."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1391.674,"endTime":1396.335,"body":"Um, which kind of, I don't, I don't"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1391.674,"endTime":1396.335,"body":"know if there's, I don't wanna posit"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1396.355,"endTime":1401.755,"body":"a hypothesis which just like, has no"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1396.355,"endTime":1401.755,"body":"grounding, but it also makes like the"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1401.755,"endTime":1406.929,"body":"deployment of Uber and Lyft in this"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1401.755,"endTime":1406.929,"body":"certain area that has like not great"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1406.929,"endTime":1412.3,"body":"transit infrastructure in certain"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1406.929,"endTime":1412.3,"body":"places, um, is like, has made it like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1412.48,"endTime":1415.6,"body":"this is the kind of ideal scenario,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1412.48,"endTime":1415.6,"body":"and you're just like, wait, what?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1415.929,"endTime":1421.54,"body":"Like, there's many places that have"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1415.929,"endTime":1421.54,"body":"rolling hills that have like, you could"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1421.57,"endTime":1423.88,"body":"invest in more transit infrastructure."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1424.3,"endTime":1432.339,"body":"Um, you know, one has not gone to, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1424.3,"endTime":1432.339,"body":"guess Zurich or uh you know, that has"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1432.355,"endTime":1438.574,"body":"like a set of trams or, or Oslo or some"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1432.355,"endTime":1438.574,"body":"places that are also set that-- anyways."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1438.775,"endTime":1438.984,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1439.165,"endTime":1442.594,"body":"And also just to point out that the, um,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1439.165,"endTime":1442.594,"body":"cable car, the famous San Francisco cable"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1442.594,"endTime":1444.775,"body":"car apparently was originally Seattle's."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1445.074,"endTime":1445.194,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1445.344,"endTime":1448.045,"body":"And there was some swap"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1445.344,"endTime":1448.045,"body":"where like Seattle sent down the cable"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1448.045,"endTime":1449.815,"body":"car and we received ferries in return."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1449.815,"endTime":1452.694,"body":"And there's, there's a part of, um,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1449.815,"endTime":1452.694,"body":"Seattle that's called the Counterbalance,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1452.964,"endTime":1455.784,"body":"where one of those used to run and"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1452.964,"endTime":1455.784,"body":"then I think got sent to San Francisco."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1455.784,"endTime":1456.025,"body":"So--"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1456.234,"endTime":1456.654,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1456.654,"endTime":1456.835,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1456.835,"endTime":1457.855,"body":"Y'all aren't that special."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1458.514,"endTime":1458.574,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1460.344,"endTime":1460.915,"body":"All right, here we go."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1461.324,"endTime":1465.895,"body":"Why, why you would choose"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1461.324,"endTime":1465.895,"body":"to actually put so much energy into"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1466.139,"endTime":1469.764,"body":"building on this topography is insane."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1469.975,"endTime":1470.995,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1469.975,"endTime":1470.995,"body":"there's something about--"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1470.995,"endTime":1471.835,"body":"Okay, but pause there."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1471.835,"endTime":1476.514,"body":"I mean, this sent me when they said"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1471.835,"endTime":1476.514,"body":"that, I'm like, okay, first off, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1476.514,"endTime":1482.065,"body":"know, the Ohlone people have been on"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1476.514,"endTime":1482.065,"body":"this land for how many hundreds of years."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1482.585,"endTime":1487.735,"body":"You know, and like what is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1482.585,"endTime":1487.735,"body":"there are people who were stewards"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1487.764,"endTime":1492.505,"body":"of, of, of this land, the Bay Area"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1487.764,"endTime":1492.505,"body":"and had done it because there's"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1493.135,"endTime":1497.245,"body":"many parts of the topography, which"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1493.135,"endTime":1497.245,"body":"are great and make a lot of sense."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1497.574,"endTime":1503.094,"body":"And like the Bay itself has"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1497.574,"endTime":1503.094,"body":"this really interesting sort of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1503.094,"endTime":1506.094,"body":"microclimate structure and yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1506.094,"endTime":1511.705,"body":"Why wouldn't you, uh, have a"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1506.094,"endTime":1511.705,"body":"sort of situation in which you"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1511.705,"endTime":1516.925,"body":"could, um, like bring agriculture"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1511.705,"endTime":1516.925,"body":"and growth to a place like this?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1517.014,"endTime":1520.165,"body":"Uh, it just really, this,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1517.014,"endTime":1520.165,"body":"this like absolutely sent me."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1520.165,"endTime":1524.005,"body":"'cause I'm just like, you know, the,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1520.165,"endTime":1524.005,"body":"you know, it's just like the kind, it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1524.005,"endTime":1529.155,"body":"the, this sort of white man's burden of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1524.005,"endTime":1529.155,"body":"it all where just like, you know, are"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1529.155,"endTime":1535.08,"body":"you-- uh, anyways, this, this, this set"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1529.155,"endTime":1535.08,"body":"me in kind of like the brave, sort of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1535.35,"endTime":1540.12,"body":"the tenacity of the white men who like"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1535.35,"endTime":1540.12,"body":"colonizes space, like incredible stuff."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1540.33,"endTime":1540.629,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1540.69,"endTime":1540.93,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1540.99,"endTime":1545.669,"body":"And if you're gonna talk about the kind of"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1540.99,"endTime":1545.669,"body":"building that settlers do, um, the thing"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1545.669,"endTime":1549.84,"body":"about San Francisco that is remarkable"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1545.669,"endTime":1549.84,"body":"is not the hills, it's the fault."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1550.5,"endTime":1550.68,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1551.024,"endTime":1553.649,"body":"That, that maybe doesn't get"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1551.024,"endTime":1553.649,"body":"along so well with the kinds"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1553.649,"endTime":1556.08,"body":"of structures that, but anyway."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1556.35,"endTime":1556.71,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1557.22,"endTime":1557.49,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1557.52,"endTime":1558.149,"body":"Let's keep going."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1558.48,"endTime":1561.21,"body":"--San Francisco, you"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1558.48,"endTime":1561.21,"body":"don't get to pick and choose freedom."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1561.87,"endTime":1564.93,"body":"Either you have, like, you let"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1561.87,"endTime":1564.93,"body":"creative freedom be expressed in"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1564.93,"endTime":1566.55,"body":"all of its weirdness, or you don't."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1566.76,"endTime":1568.449,"body":"I feel, I owe--"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1569.34,"endTime":1569.7,"body":"Really?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1571.98,"endTime":1575.32,"body":"And and what, so is he-- this"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1571.98,"endTime":1575.32,"body":"is Sam talking about freedom."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1575.34,"endTime":1578.52,"body":"Is he trying to connect like the"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1575.34,"endTime":1578.52,"body":"San Francisco counterculture to"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1578.52,"endTime":1579.96,"body":"the San Francisco tech culture?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1580.35,"endTime":1580.53,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1580.835,"endTime":1580.995,"body":"I mean--"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1580.995,"endTime":1581.754,"body":"Is, is"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1580.995,"endTime":1581.754,"body":"that what that is mean?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1581.754,"endTime":1585.51,"body":"It's, I think it's a move"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1581.754,"endTime":1585.51,"body":"to like the, in the back on the idea"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1585.51,"endTime":1590.04,"body":"of the California ideology, this thing"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1585.51,"endTime":1590.04,"body":"that is, you know, freedom and quirky"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1590.04,"endTime":1595.53,"body":"and weird, but then you, uh, but then"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1590.04,"endTime":1595.53,"body":"has these libertarian ideals, right?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1596.19,"endTime":1596.46,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1596.61,"endTime":1600.0,"body":"But that is not truly creative unless it's"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1596.61,"endTime":1600.0,"body":"also libertarian, I think is the, yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1600.24,"endTime":1600.57,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1600.69,"endTime":1600.93,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1601.14,"endTime":1602.3,"body":"Back to Jony."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1602.35,"endTime":1606.36,"body":"--owe this city such"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1602.35,"endTime":1606.36,"body":"an enormous debt of gratitude."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1607.23,"endTime":1608.22,"body":"\"For everyone.\""},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1609.45,"endTime":1610.74,"body":"I want this"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1609.45,"endTime":1610.74,"body":"to be democratized."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1610.74,"endTime":1611.61,"body":"I want everybody to have it."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1611.61,"endTime":1614.58,"body":"I don't want it to be the tiny percentage"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1611.61,"endTime":1614.58,"body":"of the population that figures out how"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1614.58,"endTime":1616.5,"body":"to use bad tools and is really smart."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1618.11,"endTime":1618.38,"body":"I--"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1618.62,"endTime":1619.09,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1619.29,"endTime":1619.56,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1620.25,"endTime":1621.84,"body":"We've said it"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1620.25,"endTime":1621.84,"body":"before and we'll say it again."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1621.84,"endTime":1623.55,"body":"That's not what democracy means."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1623.58,"endTime":1623.85,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1624.18,"endTime":1624.45,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1624.81,"endTime":1628.08,"body":"Democracy is not a consumer electronics."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1628.38,"endTime":1631.77,"body":"It's not broad access, it's"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1628.38,"endTime":1631.77,"body":"shared governance, and that's"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1631.77,"endTime":1632.85,"body":"not what he's talking about here."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1633.12,"endTime":1633.36,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1635.04,"endTime":1637.41,"body":"I want anybody to say,"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1635.04,"endTime":1637.41,"body":"hey, I have this idea, make it happen."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1637.86,"endTime":1639.03,"body":"The responsibility--"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1640.2,"endTime":1642.25,"body":"\"I want anybody to"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1640.2,"endTime":1642.25,"body":"say, hey, I have this idea. Make it"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1642.25,"endTime":1646.08,"body":"happen.\" So again, he's imagining"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1642.25,"endTime":1646.08,"body":"an everything machine and thinking"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1646.08,"endTime":1648.389,"body":"that everybody should have access"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1646.08,"endTime":1648.389,"body":"to the everything machine instead of"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1648.389,"endTime":1653.07,"body":"people being supported in creating"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1648.389,"endTime":1653.07,"body":"themselves what they want to create."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1654.24,"endTime":1654.51,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1654.93,"endTime":1655.23,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1655.23,"endTime":1661.71,"body":"That this is exactly what the idea of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1655.23,"endTime":1661.71,"body":"democracy means and the kind of Silicon"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1661.71,"endTime":1667.05,"body":"Valley imaginary, \"use our tools\", not"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1661.71,"endTime":1667.05,"body":"that you have control, uh, of, um, of the"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1667.05,"endTime":1668.58,"body":"kind of technological feature you want."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1668.639,"endTime":1668.94,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1669.389,"endTime":1669.629,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1670.6,"endTime":1674.1,"body":"--responsibility that Sam"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1670.6,"endTime":1674.1,"body":"bears is-- actually, is honestly"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1674.1,"endTime":1675.48,"body":"is beyond my comprehension."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1675.48,"endTime":1677.58,"body":"I have a sense of some of it."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1678.31,"endTime":1678.52,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1678.52,"endTime":1680.02,"body":"So, so pause here."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1680.07,"endTime":1684.56,"body":"So yeah, he says \"the responsibility"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1680.07,"endTime":1684.56,"body":"that Sam bears\", again, this"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1684.56,"endTime":1686.639,"body":"is kind of the thing he said."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1686.7,"endTime":1689.22,"body":"You know, I don't have,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1686.7,"endTime":1689.22,"body":"I don't have an idea."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1689.73,"endTime":1691.98,"body":"This is, I can't, I can't even imagine."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1692.55,"endTime":1697.38,"body":"And it's just wild, I mean, it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1692.55,"endTime":1697.38,"body":"talking of Altman like, you know, this"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1697.38,"endTime":1701.67,"body":"kind of, uh, elected official that"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1697.38,"endTime":1701.67,"body":"has this huge weight on his shoulders."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1701.67,"endTime":1705.96,"body":"But, you know, we didn't, we did not,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1701.67,"endTime":1705.96,"body":"we did not elect this man anything."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1706.47,"endTime":1707.97,"body":"I mean, so"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1706.47,"endTime":1707.97,"body":"that, that's one way to read it."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1707.97,"endTime":1712.17,"body":"I read it more as like, um, the"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1707.97,"endTime":1712.17,"body":"sort of priest to the AI God,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1712.89,"endTime":1714.69,"body":"um, or like, he's, he's, yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1716.04,"endTime":1717.06,"body":"Definitely both, right?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1717.18,"endTime":1717.42,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1717.9,"endTime":1722.43,"body":"But I see him, and I have"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1717.9,"endTime":1722.43,"body":"seen him over the last two years,"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1722.76,"endTime":1727.23,"body":"shoulder that responsibility, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1722.76,"endTime":1727.23,"body":"late, late, late into the night."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1727.23,"endTime":1731.07,"body":"But what really struck me is"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1727.23,"endTime":1731.07,"body":"what he's worrying about is not"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1731.07,"endTime":1733.2,"body":"himself and it's not his company."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1734.34,"endTime":1739.44,"body":"What I see you worrying about are other"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1734.34,"endTime":1739.44,"body":"people or about customers, about society--"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1740.475,"endTime":1740.955,"body":"okay."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1741.405,"endTime":1741.495,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1741.555,"endTime":1743.745,"body":"So first of all, just"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1741.555,"endTime":1743.745,"body":"wanna remark on the speech situation here."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1743.745,"endTime":1746.595,"body":"It's a little bit weird because the"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1743.745,"endTime":1746.595,"body":"framing is these two guys having a"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1746.595,"endTime":1751.515,"body":"conversation, but Johnny there was"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1746.595,"endTime":1751.515,"body":"talking to the audience for a long chunk."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1751.905,"endTime":1756.075,"body":"Um, but so Sam is not worrying"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1751.905,"endTime":1756.075,"body":"about himself or his company."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1756.345,"endTime":1760.635,"body":"He's worrying about"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1756.345,"endTime":1760.635,"body":"customers, people and society."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1762.075,"endTime":1768.075,"body":"And you know, that leaves you wondering"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1762.075,"endTime":1768.075,"body":"who counts as people to Sam, right?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1768.105,"endTime":1771.945,"body":"And, and read Karen Hao's book and you'll"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1768.105,"endTime":1771.945,"body":"see that that's the majority of the"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1771.945,"endTime":1773.385,"body":"world does not count as people to Sam."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1773.79,"endTime":1774.01,"body":"Mm."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1776.265,"endTime":1776.62,"body":"Keep going."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1776.985,"endTime":1777.915,"body":"Yeah, let's do it."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1778.395,"endTime":1779.295,"body":"--About culture."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1780.195,"endTime":1784.065,"body":"And to me that tells me everything"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1780.195,"endTime":1784.065,"body":"I want to know about someone."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1784.575,"endTime":1787.545,"body":"You talk to people who"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1784.575,"endTime":1787.545,"body":"use our latest model and say, this"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1787.545,"endTime":1790.815,"body":"is like genius level in every field,"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1787.545,"endTime":1790.815,"body":"and you just have to put in the"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1790.815,"endTime":1792.135,"body":"work to like pull it all together."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1792.135,"endTime":1795.435,"body":"But if you have a hard problem, you"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1792.135,"endTime":1795.435,"body":"can have this like team of geniuses"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1795.495,"endTime":1796.905,"body":"in all of their different disciplines."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1797.085,"endTime":1800.655,"body":"And they report, 'I'm two or"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1797.085,"endTime":1800.655,"body":"three times more productive as"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1800.655,"endTime":1802.035,"body":"a scientist than I was before."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1802.305,"endTime":1802.455,"body":"I'm--'"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1803.235,"endTime":1803.655,"body":"Alright."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1803.715,"endTime":1804.945,"body":"Who is telling him that?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1806.325,"endTime":1808.455,"body":"Well, it's also"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1806.325,"endTime":1808.455,"body":"interesting 'cause he frames himself."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1809.355,"endTime":1811.815,"body":"Is he framing himself as a scientist here?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1812.355,"endTime":1815.235,"body":"He's saying, you know, like, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1812.355,"endTime":1815.235,"body":"have these team of geniuses and you"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1815.235,"endTime":1820.035,"body":"know, that reminds us of the kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1815.235,"endTime":1820.035,"body":"same thing that Dario Amodei said."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1820.035,"endTime":1821.025,"body":"The kind of, what is it?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1821.025,"endTime":1823.185,"body":"The data center of geniuses or--"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1823.225,"endTime":1824.895,"body":"\"A country of"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1823.225,"endTime":1824.895,"body":"geniuses in the data center.\""},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1824.895,"endTime":1826.514,"body":"Country of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1824.895,"endTime":1826.514,"body":"geniuses in the data center."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1826.514,"endTime":1828.375,"body":"I forgot the turn of phrase, right."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1828.764,"endTime":1832.815,"body":"And so this idea of geniuses, the idea of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1828.764,"endTime":1832.815,"body":"that I have productivity as a scientist."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1833.535,"endTime":1838.395,"body":"There's some recent reporting too, um,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1833.535,"endTime":1838.395,"body":"that there was a, there was a piece by"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1838.455,"endTime":1845.925,"body":"um, um, uh, Noem Scheiber, I think, in the"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1838.455,"endTime":1845.925,"body":"New York Times specifically talking about"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1845.925,"endTime":1854.415,"body":"the forced use use of, in Amazon of, um,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1845.925,"endTime":1854.415,"body":"large language models in coding tasks."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1855.014,"endTime":1860.16,"body":"And it was really interesting because one"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1855.014,"endTime":1860.16,"body":"of the things that he had reported that"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1860.16,"endTime":1864.84,"body":"was effectively, that a lot of junior"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1860.16,"endTime":1864.84,"body":"developers were being forced to use this"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1864.84,"endTime":1869.4,"body":"kind of against their own desires, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1864.84,"endTime":1869.4,"body":"it was really interrupting their work."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1869.84,"endTime":1873.9,"body":"And so the kind of idea that there's"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1869.84,"endTime":1873.9,"body":"sort of like a notion of a genius, then"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1873.9,"endTime":1877.98,"body":"relying on other geniuses in other fields"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1873.9,"endTime":1877.98,"body":"and bringing together all different"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1877.98,"endTime":1879.75,"body":"threads as if it is improving this work."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1879.75,"endTime":1884.85,"body":"And I, I think it's so, I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1879.75,"endTime":1884.85,"body":"kind of a, a meme at this point,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1884.85,"endTime":1888.21,"body":"the way that this gets talked about"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1884.85,"endTime":1888.21,"body":"with regards to science, that that's"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1888.21,"endTime":1889.86,"body":"certainly not how science works."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1890.1,"endTime":1893.34,"body":"Um, but the idea that there is"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1890.1,"endTime":1893.34,"body":"like this kind of facilitation"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1893.34,"endTime":1898.32,"body":"happening is I think a bit, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1893.34,"endTime":1898.32,"body":"it's really disingenuous, right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1898.32,"endTime":1902.64,"body":"And there's not much data except"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1898.32,"endTime":1902.64,"body":"basically what tech people say."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1903.15,"endTime":1908.78,"body":"I can't really haven't seen much, um,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1903.15,"endTime":1908.78,"body":"that it's more systematic in that view."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1909.54,"endTime":1910.23,"body":"All"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1909.54,"endTime":1910.23,"body":"right, let's keep going."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1910.23,"endTime":1911.82,"body":"We've got a minute and a"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1910.23,"endTime":1911.82,"body":"half left of this thing."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1912.34,"endTime":1912.459,"body":"Oh gosh."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1912.48,"endTime":1914.909,"body":"--Two or three times faster"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1912.48,"endTime":1914.909,"body":"to find a cure for cancer than I was"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1914.909,"endTime":1917.1,"body":"before because I have this incredible--\""},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1917.189,"endTime":1917.429,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1917.429,"endTime":1919.649,"body":"He's not, he's not saying he's"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1917.429,"endTime":1919.649,"body":"finding a cure for cancer."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1919.649,"endTime":1922.8,"body":"He's saying someone came to him and"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1919.649,"endTime":1922.8,"body":"said, because of your machine, I'm"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1922.8,"endTime":1924.3,"body":"finding a cure for cancer faster."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1924.629,"endTime":1924.99,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1925.379,"endTime":1927.719,"body":"I don't think scientists"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1925.379,"endTime":1927.719,"body":"talk about-- anyway, keep going."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1928.87,"endTime":1931.709,"body":"--External brain that"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1928.87,"endTime":1931.709,"body":"just didn't exist six months ago."},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1932.01,"endTime":1935.969,"body":"I think this will be one of"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1932.01,"endTime":1935.969,"body":"these moments of just an absolute"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1937.29,"endTime":1940.8,"body":"embarrassment of riches of what people"},{"speaker":"Sam Altman","startTime":1937.29,"endTime":1940.8,"body":"go create for collective society."},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1941.219,"endTime":1947.159,"body":"I am absolutely certain"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1941.219,"endTime":1947.159,"body":"that we are literally on the brink"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1947.159,"endTime":1954.78,"body":"of a, a new generation of technology"},{"speaker":"Jony Ive","startTime":1947.159,"endTime":1954.78,"body":"that can make us our better selves."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1956.145,"endTime":1958.785,"body":"There was a whole lot"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1956.145,"endTime":1958.785,"body":"of nothing in all those superlatives."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1958.785,"endTime":1961.995,"body":"I'm absolutely certain that we are"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1958.785,"endTime":1961.995,"body":"at the brink of a blah, blah, blah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1961.995,"endTime":1963.255,"body":"It's like there's nothing, no there."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1963.315,"endTime":1963.885,"body":"No there there."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1963.945,"endTime":1964.275,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1964.275,"endTime":1964.335,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1964.995,"endTime":1968.475,"body":"Uh, \"Jony and LoveFrom will"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1964.995,"endTime":1968.475,"body":"assume design and creative"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1968.475,"endTime":1970.815,"body":"responsibilities across OpenAI and io."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1974.745,"endTime":1981.545,"body":"io will merge with OpenAI.\""},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1981.615,"endTime":1982.155,"body":"Just text."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1982.47,"endTime":1985.815,"body":"\"We look forward, we look forward"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1982.47,"endTime":1985.815,"body":"to sharing our work next year.\""},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1987.945,"endTime":1990.565,"body":"So they actually haven't named"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1987.945,"endTime":1990.565,"body":"what it is that they're building."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1991.195,"endTime":1992.535,"body":"And then the company logos."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1992.835,"endTime":1993.645,"body":"Company, yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1993.645,"endTime":1997.085,"body":"LoveFrom seems"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1993.645,"endTime":1997.085,"body":"to have a comma at the end of it?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1997.085,"endTime":1997.305,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":1997.305,"endTime":1998.085,"body":"I think we're done with this."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1998.145,"endTime":1998.625,"body":"Yeah, let's."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1998.85,"endTime":2001.76,"body":"So let's, yeah, let's, so"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":1998.85,"endTime":2001.76,"body":"let's just shake that off."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2002.3,"endTime":2004.07,"body":"Um, let's bring in the next artifact."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2004.1,"endTime":2006.205,"body":"'cause I want to get through,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2004.1,"endTime":2006.205,"body":"'cause there's a lot to go"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2006.685,"endTime":2007.85,"body":"'cause we had another artifact."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2008.27,"endTime":2008.42,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2008.42,"endTime":2010.37,"body":"Maybe we,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2008.42,"endTime":2010.37,"body":"we want to get to that."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2010.43,"endTime":2010.61,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2010.61,"endTime":2011.63,"body":"I can't get to the right screen."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2011.66,"endTime":2011.81,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2011.81,"endTime":2015.08,"body":"I'm gonna bring up the other artifact and"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2011.81,"endTime":2015.08,"body":"I'm noticing that we, um, haven't read"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2015.08,"endTime":2017.81,"body":"any of the wonderful contributions in"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2015.08,"endTime":2017.81,"body":"the chat in a little while if you need--"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2017.81,"endTime":2017.9,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2017.9,"endTime":2019.19,"body":"The chat is, is great."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2019.19,"endTime":2029.78,"body":"I mean some, so, ecece_ce says, \"He is"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2019.19,"endTime":2029.78,"body":"already talking like a cult leader.\" And"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2029.78,"endTime":2036.17,"body":"then, um, and then, uh, SJayLett says,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2029.78,"endTime":2036.17,"body":"\"Sam went up the hill to see AI God and"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2036.17,"endTime":2039.8,"body":"came back not with tablets or laws or,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2036.17,"endTime":2039.8,"body":"or principles for governance or ideas"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2039.8,"endTime":2044.18,"body":"for better living but with a marginal"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2039.8,"endTime":2044.18,"body":"iteration on a previous text extruding"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2044.18,"endTime":2047.66,"body":"machine that can now make pictures.\" Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2047.69,"endTime":2053.42,"body":"So there's, and then Doggz1, \"So Sam was"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2047.69,"endTime":2053.42,"body":"on Mayor Danny's transition team, LOL.\""},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2053.84,"endTime":2057.65,"body":"So that's some, I mean, that's sort of,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2053.84,"endTime":2057.65,"body":"and that's in reference to, um, the new"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2057.65,"endTime":2063.949,"body":"mayor of San Francisco, Daniel Lurie, who"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2057.65,"endTime":2063.949,"body":"unfortunately, uh, is, you know, has had"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2063.949,"endTime":2066.38,"body":"Sam Altman on his, uh, transition team."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2066.38,"endTime":2072.08,"body":"And it's very, a very corporate friendly,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2066.38,"endTime":2072.08,"body":"um, uh, uh, mayor who is supported"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2072.08,"endTime":2077.929,"body":"by many corporate friendly interests,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2072.08,"endTime":2077.929,"body":"including Gary Tan's Grow SF organization."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2078.199,"endTime":2081.799,"body":"Um, Gary Tan, being the, the"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2078.199,"endTime":2081.799,"body":"current head of Y Combinator."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2082.429,"endTime":2086.389,"body":"Um, so, I mean, I don't know if we"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2082.429,"endTime":2086.389,"body":"need to necessarily bring up the"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2086.449,"endTime":2088.489,"body":"artifact on this, like the next one."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2088.489,"endTime":2088.549,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2088.549,"endTime":2089.719,"body":"Also, are we not seeing it?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2089.779,"endTime":2090.38,"body":"That's weird."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2090.409,"endTime":2091.819,"body":"No, it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2090.409,"endTime":2091.819,"body":"going to the other one."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2092.09,"endTime":2092.42,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2092.48,"endTime":2093.17,"body":"Lemme get the right one."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2093.17,"endTime":2093.799,"body":"Sorry about that."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2094.069,"endTime":2094.37,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2094.37,"endTime":2095.9,"body":"Um, window."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2096.319,"endTime":2096.949,"body":"This one."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2097.4,"endTime":2097.85,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2098.27,"endTime":2101.839,"body":"Yeah, so this is, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2098.27,"endTime":2101.839,"body":"there's, I just want to bring up kind"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2101.839,"endTime":2105.87,"body":"of like the headline here and sort of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2101.839,"endTime":2105.87,"body":"the spending that he's done on this."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2105.87,"endTime":2109.189,"body":"So the title of this-- it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2105.87,"endTime":2109.189,"body":"in the San Francisco Standard."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2109.64,"endTime":2114.77,"body":"Um, and, uh, this is actually from last"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2109.64,"endTime":2114.77,"body":"year, but it says, \"Making the Ive Hive:"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2114.77,"endTime":2119.93,"body":"Jony Ive's bold plants to reshape a"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2114.77,"endTime":2119.93,"body":"small slice of San Francisco. Entities"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2119.93,"endTime":2123.5,"body":"tied to the legendary Apple designer"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2119.93,"endTime":2123.5,"body":"have spent tens of millions buying up"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2123.5,"endTime":2125.87,"body":"nearly a city block in Jackson Square.\""},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2126.5,"endTime":2129.41,"body":"And so, just to give you a sense, like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2126.5,"endTime":2129.41,"body":"so they were in Jackson Square in that"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2129.41,"endTime":2132.68,"body":"video, there's kind of this iconic"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2129.41,"endTime":2132.68,"body":"building, which I was trying to search"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2132.68,"endTime":2136.73,"body":"in the, in the pod, uh, while we were"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2132.68,"endTime":2136.73,"body":"recording, what the name of it is,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2136.73,"endTime":2141.74,"body":"but I forget, and it is actually abuts"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2136.73,"endTime":2141.74,"body":"the, it abuts the Transamerica Tower."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2142.129,"endTime":2146.24,"body":"It is, I think, uh, across the"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2142.129,"endTime":2146.24,"body":"street from City Lights effectively,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2146.509,"endTime":2150.049,"body":"but it's at this intersection of,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2146.509,"endTime":2150.049,"body":"yeah, this is these Columbus, I"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2150.049,"endTime":2151.609,"body":"think Columbus and Jackson Avenues."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2151.814,"endTime":2158.194,"body":"Um, um, and, and so he's--"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2151.814,"endTime":2158.194,"body":"and so in there, there's some"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2158.21,"endTime":2162.11,"body":"interesting, uh, there's these"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2158.21,"endTime":2162.11,"body":"interesting details around this."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2162.53,"endTime":2169.94,"body":"So, Ive had bought up 112 Columbus and"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2162.53,"endTime":2169.94,"body":"831 Montgomery in 2021, 07 Montgomery"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2169.94,"endTime":2172.58,"body":"and portions of 845 Montgomery in 2023."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2173.09,"endTime":2177.575,"body":"The price of each of those properties,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2173.09,"endTime":2177.575,"body":"respectively, $17 million, $10"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2177.575,"endTime":2181.185,"body":"million, $$38 million and $4.1 million."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2181.85,"endTime":2189.08,"body":"And so effectively you have this person,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2181.85,"endTime":2189.08,"body":"uh, Jony Ive, who is not just a, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2189.08,"endTime":2193.34,"body":"know, person that is invested in design,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2189.08,"endTime":2193.34,"body":"but he's also this, you know, this person"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2193.34,"endTime":2198.77,"body":"who is buying up a lot of property in"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2193.34,"endTime":2198.77,"body":"this one neighborhood of San Francisco."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2198.77,"endTime":2204.275,"body":"And I mean, and this reporting especially"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2198.77,"endTime":2204.275,"body":"The Standard, is very credulous, it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2204.275,"endTime":2206.735,"body":"very kind to billionaires, I should say."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2206.735,"endTime":2211.025,"body":"It's, it's kind of funded by a lot"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2206.735,"endTime":2211.025,"body":"of the, um, tech elite in the city."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2211.025,"endTime":2213.335,"body":"So it is a bit credulous"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2211.025,"endTime":2213.335,"body":"when it reports on it."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2213.905,"endTime":2217.325,"body":"But there's kind of the way"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2213.905,"endTime":2217.325,"body":"in which there's just so much"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2217.865,"endTime":2219.905,"body":"scooping of real estate here."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2220.325,"endTime":2224.465,"body":"Uh, and the way that it's very, that"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2220.325,"endTime":2224.465,"body":"it's characterized in, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2224.465,"endTime":2228.725,"body":"if it's this piece or another piece I"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2224.465,"endTime":2228.725,"body":"think, but they're, they're like, 'Yes,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2228.725,"endTime":2230.855,"body":"this is a, you know, a clean area."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2231.125,"endTime":2236.405,"body":"And it is one that we wanted to, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2231.125,"endTime":2236.405,"body":"know, like effectively gentrify.'"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2236.885,"endTime":2241.385,"body":"And even the language here, and one"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2236.885,"endTime":2241.385,"body":"of the elected officials here, Aaron"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2241.385,"endTime":2248.495,"body":"Peskin, um, who Aaron Peskin was actually"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2241.385,"endTime":2248.495,"body":"a more progressive candidate, lost his"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2248.555,"endTime":2251.615,"body":"race as and district three supervisor."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2252.125,"endTime":2256.505,"body":"But even the kind of language"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2252.125,"endTime":2256.505,"body":"here from Peskin is, is not great."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2256.925,"endTime":2257.555,"body":"Um."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2258.725,"endTime":2262.445,"body":"So he says, \"When you see, you see"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2258.725,"endTime":2262.445,"body":"people assembling large parcels of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2262.445,"endTime":2265.595,"body":"property in Jackson Square, you might"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2262.445,"endTime":2265.595,"body":"think they're planning on ripping out"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2265.595,"endTime":2270.125,"body":"all the Gold Rush-era buildings and"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2265.595,"endTime":2270.125,"body":"putting in something else.\" Um, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2270.125,"endTime":2274.145,"body":"then, but then he says of Ives, \"He"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2270.125,"endTime":2274.145,"body":"loves and cares about Jackson Square."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2274.625,"endTime":2277.085,"body":"There are people who are responsible"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2274.625,"endTime":2277.085,"body":"investors and those who are not."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2277.085,"endTime":2278.825,"body":"He's definitely one of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2277.085,"endTime":2278.825,"body":"the responsible ones.\""},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2279.23,"endTime":2281.585,"body":"And so this the"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2279.23,"endTime":2281.585,"body":"city supervisor just saying, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2281.585,"endTime":2283.925,"body":"we have to just make sure, or we"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2281.585,"endTime":2283.925,"body":"have to, we can feel good because"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2283.925,"endTime":2284.945,"body":"it's one of the responsible ones."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2284.945,"endTime":2290.135,"body":"And like, but you know, not pass"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2284.945,"endTime":2290.135,"body":"any regulations about preserving"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2290.135,"endTime":2291.935,"body":"historic buildings, for example?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2292.64,"endTime":2294.98,"body":"Well, not even"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2292.64,"endTime":2294.98,"body":"the historic buildings."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2294.98,"endTime":2297.799,"body":"I mean, it's thinking about what"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2294.98,"endTime":2297.799,"body":"is, what is that gentrification"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2297.799,"endTime":2302.99,"body":"doing to residents of Jackson Square"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2297.799,"endTime":2302.99,"body":"and the abutting areas, right."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2303.29,"endTime":2307.67,"body":"And so one of the abutting areas is"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2303.29,"endTime":2307.67,"body":"SF Chinatown, which is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2307.73,"endTime":2312.35,"body":"has able, been able to, to some"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2307.73,"endTime":2312.35,"body":"degree, resist some gentrification."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2312.35,"endTime":2319.16,"body":"But it is also like many of--the place"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2312.35,"endTime":2319.16,"body":"where many, many people, many, um, uh,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2319.19,"endTime":2325.549,"body":"Chinese immigrants are--second or third"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2319.19,"endTime":2325.549,"body":"generation folks are not, are--only place"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2325.549,"endTime":2327.62,"body":"in the city that they can live, right."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2328.46,"endTime":2333.83,"body":"And so, um, you know, like there's,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2328.46,"endTime":2333.83,"body":"there's so much here about like the"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2333.83,"endTime":2340.58,"body":"kind of nexus of, of gentrification,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2333.83,"endTime":2340.58,"body":"the emplacedness of San Francisco"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2340.58,"endTime":2345.305,"body":"in a way where Ive is lending his"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2340.58,"endTime":2345.305,"body":"kind of cachet as this kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2345.305,"endTime":2349.835,"body":"responsible investor to OpenAI here,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2345.305,"endTime":2349.835,"body":"which is also very frustrating."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2350.375,"endTime":2351.904,"body":"This paragraph"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2350.375,"endTime":2351.904,"body":"in the middle here really got me."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2351.904,"endTime":2355.475,"body":"It says, \"Among neighbors in surrounding"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2351.904,"endTime":2355.475,"body":"buildings, rumors are flying around what"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2355.475,"endTime":2357.274,"body":"exactly Ive plans to do with the block."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2357.545,"endTime":2360.665,"body":"Is he trying to build a semi-public"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2357.545,"endTime":2360.665,"body":"park for his well-heeled neighbors?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2360.665,"endTime":2361.595,"body":"A robotics lab?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2361.895,"endTime":2366.125,"body":"Perhaps a mini campus for Jackson Square's"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2361.895,"endTime":2366.125,"body":"emergent creative class, or a secret"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2366.125,"endTime":2368.285,"body":"headquarters for a new AI device startup.\""},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2368.285,"endTime":2371.464,"body":"So first of all,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2368.285,"endTime":2371.464,"body":"\"emergent creative class\"?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2371.585,"endTime":2375.245,"body":"Well, \"well-heeled neighbors\""},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2371.585,"endTime":2375.245,"body":"is a thing that's sending me here."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2375.245,"endTime":2378.515,"body":"I mean, it's, it's not a"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2375.245,"endTime":2378.515,"body":"place for those riffraff."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2379.355,"endTime":2381.424,"body":"And also"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2379.355,"endTime":2381.424,"body":"what's a semi-public park?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2381.995,"endTime":2382.535,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2382.984,"endTime":2384.634,"body":"Is that like"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2382.984,"endTime":2384.634,"body":"the Salesforce thing where"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2384.634,"endTime":2385.895,"body":"like you have to pay to get in?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2386.015,"endTime":2387.335,"body":"I think it's,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2386.015,"endTime":2387.335,"body":"I think, yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2387.335,"endTime":2390.964,"body":"SJayLett says, \"Semi-public"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2387.335,"endTime":2390.964,"body":"park: No, that's a private park.\""},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2391.955,"endTime":2392.254,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2392.254,"endTime":2395.884,"body":"And it, it is, it, it does remind me"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2392.254,"endTime":2395.884,"body":"of the Salesforce thing, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2395.884,"endTime":2400.76,"body":"there, there are these kind of places"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2395.884,"endTime":2400.76,"body":"which are, effectively they say they're"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2400.76,"endTime":2403.49,"body":"public, but I mean, they're private."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2404.305,"endTime":2404.475,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2404.81,"endTime":2405.17,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2405.17,"endTime":2406.79,"body":"That's, that's not a thing."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2406.79,"endTime":2409.85,"body":"If you are not the right person,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2406.79,"endTime":2409.85,"body":"you're not gonna be able to stay there."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2410.55,"endTime":2410.73,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2411.41,"endTime":2411.8,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2411.83,"endTime":2415.16,"body":"I'm gonna take us to our other main"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2411.83,"endTime":2415.16,"body":"course, but treat it with like sort of a"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2415.46,"endTime":2418.799,"body":"large, like a, it's a, maybe we're just,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2415.46,"endTime":2418.799,"body":"maybe we're not quite to Fresh AI Hell"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2418.82,"endTime":2421.1,"body":"'cause we haven't done the transition,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2418.82,"endTime":2421.1,"body":"but we're gonna do this pretty fast."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2421.37,"endTime":2428.24,"body":"Um, this is a thread from Sam Bowman,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2421.37,"endTime":2428.24,"body":"um, of Anthropic from May 22nd, um, on X."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2428.6,"endTime":2433.79,"body":"And it starts with a thread emoji,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2428.6,"endTime":2433.79,"body":"sparkles emoji, praying hands"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2433.79,"endTime":2439.19,"body":"emoji, which is a, a like the first"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2433.79,"endTime":2439.19,"body":"two I understand in this context."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2439.19,"endTime":2441.53,"body":"I don't understand what the, what"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2439.19,"endTime":2441.53,"body":"the prayer hands emoji's doing there."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2441.83,"endTime":2445.46,"body":"Uh, \"With the new Claude Opus 4, we"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2441.83,"endTime":2445.46,"body":"conducted what I think is by far the most"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2445.46,"endTime":2449.51,"body":"thorough pre-launch alignment assessment"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2445.46,"endTime":2449.51,"body":"to date, aimed at understanding its"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2449.51,"endTime":2453.5,"body":"values, goals, and propensities. Preparing"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2449.51,"endTime":2453.5,"body":"it was a wild ride. Here's some of what"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2453.5,"endTime":2455.9,"body":"we learned.\" And then we have those"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2453.5,"endTime":2455.9,"body":"three emojis in the opposite order."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2456.62,"endTime":2457.01,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2457.97,"endTime":2461.839,"body":"\"Understanding it--\", it being"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2457.97,"endTime":2461.839,"body":"Claude's, \"--values, goals, and"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2461.839,"endTime":2466.609,"body":"propensities.\" I'm sorry, large"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2461.839,"endTime":2466.609,"body":"language models do not have goals."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2467.149,"endTime":2468.64,"body":"Propensities maybe?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2468.799,"endTime":2472.04,"body":"Values in the sense that there's"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2468.799,"endTime":2472.04,"body":"values that are reflected, but ugh."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2472.43,"endTime":2478.16,"body":"Um, and just to sort of, uh, skim to a few"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2472.43,"endTime":2478.16,"body":"of the things here that are, um, a little"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2478.16,"endTime":2483.919,"body":"bit jaw dropping in terms of the amount"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2478.16,"endTime":2483.919,"body":"of credulity and like the degree to which"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2483.919,"endTime":2489.049,"body":"this is down the same AI safety rabbit"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2483.919,"endTime":2489.049,"body":"hole that we read about last time or"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2489.049,"endTime":2491.45,"body":"two times ago with the AI 2027 artifact."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2491.839,"endTime":2496.41,"body":"Uh, so Bowman says, \"Good news. We didn't"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2491.839,"endTime":2496.41,"body":"find any evidence of systematic deception"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2496.43,"endTime":2499.52,"body":"or sandbagging.\" So this is one of the"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2496.43,"endTime":2499.52,"body":"specific things they worry about, right?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2499.9,"endTime":2501.53,"body":"Um, let's see."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2502.259,"endTime":2505.609,"body":"Uh, \"Every worrying thing that we saw"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2502.259,"endTime":2505.609,"body":"was something that models would do and"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2505.609,"endTime":2508.37,"body":"talk about very overtly.\" Okay, fine."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2508.759,"endTime":2509.12,"body":"Um."},{"speaker":"And, a few tweets down, \"Initiative","startTime":2509.69,"endTime":2514.82,"body":"be careful about telling Opus to be"},{"speaker":"And, a few tweets down, \"Initiative","startTime":2514.82,"endTime":2518.42,"body":"bold or take initiative when you've"},{"speaker":"And, a few tweets down, \"Initiative","startTime":2514.82,"endTime":2518.42,"body":"given it access to real world facing"},{"speaker":"And, a few tweets down, \"Initiative","startTime":2518.42,"endTime":2522.62,"body":"tools. It tends a bit in that direction"},{"speaker":"And, a few tweets down, \"Initiative","startTime":2518.42,"endTime":2522.62,"body":"already and you can easily, can easily"},{"speaker":"And, a few tweets down, \"Initiative","startTime":2522.62,"endTime":2527.39,"body":"be nudged into really getting things"},{"speaker":"And, a few tweets down, \"Initiative","startTime":2522.62,"endTime":2527.39,"body":"done.\" And then there's a deleted post."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2528.11,"endTime":2529.145,"body":"I wonder what that's about."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2530.285,"endTime":2533.54,"body":"Um, this was captured"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2530.285,"endTime":2533.54,"body":"by Molly White over on Blue Sky."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2533.54,"endTime":2535.52,"body":"She's got a screen cap, screen cap of it."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2535.88,"endTime":2539.87,"body":"Uh, her post or skeet is, \"Welcome"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2535.88,"endTime":2539.87,"body":"to the future. Now your error"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2539.87,"endTime":2541.76,"body":"prone software can call the cops.\""},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2543.11,"endTime":2547.07,"body":"The deleted tweet was, was Bowman saying,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2543.11,"endTime":2547.07,"body":"\"If it thinks you're doing something"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2547.07,"endTime":2550.58,"body":"egregiously immoral, for example,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2547.07,"endTime":2550.58,"body":"like faking data in a pharmaceutical"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2550.58,"endTime":2554.42,"body":"trial, it will use command line"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2550.58,"endTime":2554.42,"body":"tools to contact the press, contact"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2554.42,"endTime":2557.54,"body":"regulators, try to lock you outta the"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2554.42,"endTime":2557.54,"body":"relevant systems or all of the above.\""},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2559.88,"endTime":2562.43,"body":"So effectively it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2559.88,"endTime":2562.43,"body":"saying that, you know, like in their"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2562.43,"endTime":2570.335,"body":"sandbox, you know, this thing is going"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2562.43,"endTime":2570.335,"body":"to use-- to call the cops on you."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2571.315,"endTime":2574.205,"body":"And so, yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2574.205,"endTime":2582.575,"body":"So first off, why are you necessarily"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2574.205,"endTime":2582.575,"body":"giving this program access like that?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2583.115,"endTime":2588.905,"body":"And I mean, this, this, this reminds,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2583.115,"endTime":2588.905,"body":"uh, um, me when we were talking"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2588.905,"endTime":2592.385,"body":"about, there was, you know, this"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2588.905,"endTime":2592.385,"body":"has had a few different guises,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2592.385,"endTime":2593.765,"body":"right, of this kind of testing."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2594.425,"endTime":2594.545,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2594.785,"endTime":2601.455,"body":"So we, this actually reminds me"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2594.785,"endTime":2601.455,"body":"of the system card for GPT-4 that"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2601.455,"endTime":2605.075,"body":"we had discussed a long time ago."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2605.525,"endTime":2609.845,"body":"Um, and one of the things that had"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2605.525,"endTime":2609.845,"body":"been brought up there was the, um,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2610.115,"endTime":2614.815,"body":"research that was independent, quote"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2610.115,"endTime":2614.815,"body":"unquote \"independent\", the, from the"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2614.815,"endTime":2616.895,"body":"Alignment Research Center or the ARC."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2617.135,"endTime":2617.315,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2617.405,"endTime":2622.505,"body":"Um, and this kind of notion"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2617.405,"endTime":2622.505,"body":"of like, is this thing finding a way"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2622.505,"endTime":2624.485,"body":"to quote unquote \"escape\" containment?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2624.485,"endTime":2630.395,"body":"And this is, this is something that Al--"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2624.485,"endTime":2630.395,"body":"um, not Altman, Bowman says, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2630.395,"endTime":2632.825,"body":"the kind of ability to escape containment."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2633.185,"endTime":2635.525,"body":"And it's, it's very funny 'cause"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2633.185,"endTime":2635.525,"body":"it also reminds me of like an"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2635.525,"endTime":2637.174,"body":"octopus that's trying to get out."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2638.975,"endTime":2645.395,"body":"Uh, and the kind of things of kind of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2638.975,"endTime":2645.395,"body":"reading about, um, octopodal, or not"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2645.395,"endTime":2647.279,"body":"octopodal, although that's a great word."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2647.279,"endTime":2647.465,"body":"That's a great word."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2647.465,"endTime":2647.525,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2648.665,"endTime":2649.415,"body":"But like, uh--"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2649.725,"endTime":2650.355,"body":"Cetacean?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2650.404,"endTime":2651.605,"body":"No cetaceans are the whales."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2651.61,"endTime":2651.96,"body":"Sorry."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2652.02,"endTime":2652.24,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2652.245,"endTime":2652.295,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2652.295,"endTime":2653.505,"body":"The, the cephalopodic--"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2653.529,"endTime":2654.08,"body":"There we go."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2654.085,"endTime":2654.515,"body":"Uh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2655.444,"endTime":2660.694,"body":"So kind of cephalopod, uh, ability to"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2655.444,"endTime":2660.694,"body":"escape a certain contained environment."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2661.205,"endTime":2661.325,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2661.325,"endTime":2662.345,"body":"Except that those are"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2661.325,"endTime":2662.345,"body":"actual living things."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2663.42,"endTime":2664.02,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2664.02,"endTime":2664.26,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2664.42,"endTime":2664.78,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2664.87,"endTime":2667.715,"body":"And so that's the sort of like"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2664.87,"endTime":2667.715,"body":"metaphor that's being used."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2667.715,"endTime":2667.775,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2668.075,"endTime":2670.895,"body":"I mean that's kinda, that's, that's"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2668.075,"endTime":2670.895,"body":"also interesting too 'cause it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2671.525,"endTime":2676.745,"body":"in some ways it's not even only"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2671.525,"endTime":2676.745,"body":"anthropomorphizing because it is also"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2676.745,"endTime":2683.9,"body":"sort of, um, I. I don't know if you"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2676.745,"endTime":2683.9,"body":"would call cephalo-pamorphizing, but"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2684.71,"endTime":2687.59,"body":"that's the kind of vision that I'm"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2684.71,"endTime":2687.59,"body":"having and it's, there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2687.59,"endTime":2689.39,"body":"those kind of fantasies here as well."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2689.42,"endTime":2690.5,"body":"Yeah, very."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2690.5,"endTime":2694.49,"body":"Um, oh, what's the, what's there,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2690.5,"endTime":2694.49,"body":"there, there's a mythological creature"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2694.49,"endTime":2697.34,"body":"that is also very squid like that I,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2694.49,"endTime":2697.34,"body":"I'm not finding the name of right now."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2698.21,"endTime":2701.06,"body":"I wanna take us down"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2698.21,"endTime":2701.06,"body":"towards the bottom of this."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2701.06,"endTime":2702.11,"body":"I'm not sure I'm gonna be able to find it."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2702.35,"endTime":2707.18,"body":"Um, there's a, there's a place"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2702.35,"endTime":2707.18,"body":"where they actually, here we go."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2708.279,"endTime":2710.48,"body":"Is it-- Christie"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2708.279,"endTime":2710.48,"body":"asked, is it the kraken?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2710.66,"endTime":2710.99,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2710.99,"endTime":2711.74,"body":"It might be the Kraken."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2711.8,"endTime":2712.64,"body":"Well, no, something else."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2712.64,"endTime":2714.8,"body":"A kraken is a"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2712.64,"endTime":2714.8,"body":"octopus though, I believe."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2715.37,"endTime":2715.52,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2715.52,"endTime":2720.63,"body":"Um, alright, so still Sam Bowman further"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2715.52,"endTime":2720.63,"body":"down the thread, uh, \"@Fish_Kyle3"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2720.65,"endTime":2724.49,"body":"investigated this further as a part"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2720.65,"endTime":2724.49,"body":"of the AI welfare assessment that we"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2724.49,"endTime":2726.53,"body":"included in the system card--a first.\""},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2727.09,"endTime":2730.16,"body":"As if they weren't already"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2727.09,"endTime":2730.16,"body":"making enough of a mockery of"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2730.52,"endTime":2732.32,"body":"system and dataset documentation."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2733.07,"endTime":2737.0,"body":"Now it's like we have to check"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2733.07,"endTime":2737.0,"body":"on the welfare of the poor AI and"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2737.0,"endTime":2738.41,"body":"that's gonna go into the system card."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2739.1,"endTime":2742.64,"body":"\"In his investigations, where there"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2739.1,"endTime":2742.64,"body":"is no adversarial effort, this happens"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2742.64,"endTime":2745.68,"body":"in almost every single model-model"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2742.64,"endTime":2745.68,"body":"conversation after enough turns.\""},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2745.7,"endTime":2748.22,"body":"This is the, the"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2745.7,"endTime":2748.22,"body":"model-model conversations."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2748.25,"endTime":2752.69,"body":"Uh, previous tweet says, \"Follow an arc"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2748.25,"endTime":2752.69,"body":"toward gratitude, then awe, then dramatic"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2752.69,"endTime":2755.99,"body":"and joyful, and sometimes emoji filled"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2752.69,"endTime":2755.99,"body":"proclamations about the perfection of"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2755.99,"endTime":2761.0,"body":"all things.\" Let us pause and remind"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2755.99,"endTime":2761.0,"body":"ourselves that these things only make"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2761.0,"endTime":2762.98,"body":"sense because we're making sense of them."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2763.85,"endTime":2768.92,"body":"Well, even this is"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2763.85,"endTime":2768.92,"body":"like, you know, like further down,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2769.07,"endTime":2771.44,"body":"uh, just two, two tweets down."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2771.98,"endTime":2774.05,"body":"He says, \"Opus is lovely."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2774.05,"endTime":2777.68,"body":"I think I spent 30 or 40 hours"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2774.05,"endTime":2777.68,"body":"over the last couple months"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2777.68,"endTime":2779.06,"body":"reading output from Opus."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2779.48,"endTime":2783.86,"body":"And I think it comes with some of the"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2779.48,"endTime":2783.86,"body":"same wisdom and presence and depth"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2783.86,"endTime":2788.24,"body":"we saw with last year's Opus model,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2783.86,"endTime":2788.24,"body":"but paired with stronger skills and"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2788.24,"endTime":2790.34,"body":"the ability to act in the real world."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2790.37,"endTime":2792.17,"body":"I'm excited for it to"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2790.37,"endTime":2792.17,"body":"be part of our lives.\""},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2792.8,"endTime":2797.84,"body":"And so this really strikes me as someone"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2792.8,"endTime":2797.84,"body":"who's read so much outputs of LLMs,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2797.84,"endTime":2802.7,"body":"that they've just become incredibly"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2797.84,"endTime":2802.7,"body":"cooked in terms of reading you just"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2802.7,"endTime":2807.47,"body":"reading the outputs and imbuing"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2802.7,"endTime":2807.47,"body":"it with a certain kind of agency."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2807.47,"endTime":2807.83,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2807.92,"endTime":2813.05,"body":"The same way that people talk about how,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2807.92,"endTime":2813.05,"body":"you know, Zuckerberg and Musk, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2813.11,"endTime":2816.62,"body":"spent so much time with their product,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2813.11,"endTime":2816.62,"body":"they just became radicalized by it."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2817.08,"endTime":2822.379,"body":"Um, although there's some, I don't"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2817.08,"endTime":2822.379,"body":"really know if I believe that hypothesis."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2822.379,"endTime":2825.259,"body":"I think those people had those"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2822.379,"endTime":2825.259,"body":"proclivities before and then"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2825.259,"endTime":2830.21,"body":"they have those biases really,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2825.259,"endTime":2830.21,"body":"um, uh, you know, emphasized."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2830.649,"endTime":2837.319,"body":"Um, but I think the, you know,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2830.649,"endTime":2837.319,"body":"the, um, um, the, uh, it, it's"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2837.319,"endTime":2838.729,"body":"certainly the same kind of thing."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2838.85,"endTime":2841.04,"body":"You're just getting super"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2838.85,"endTime":2841.04,"body":"high on your own supply."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2841.58,"endTime":2842.959,"body":"And,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2841.58,"endTime":2842.959,"body":"and it's all advertising."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2842.959,"endTime":2846.35,"body":"So when we were talking to a journalist,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2842.959,"endTime":2846.35,"body":"I think last week or sometime in the last,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2846.35,"endTime":2849.859,"body":"you know, three week long week, because"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2846.35,"endTime":2849.859,"body":"we were so busy with book stuff, one of"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2849.859,"endTime":2851.54,"body":"the journalists said, sorry I'm late."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2851.54,"endTime":2852.77,"body":"There's just so much going on."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2852.77,"endTime":2853.939,"body":"Everything's moving so fast."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2853.939,"endTime":2855.14,"body":"And like, no, it's not moving so fast."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2855.14,"endTime":2857.18,"body":"You're just getting"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2855.14,"endTime":2857.18,"body":"snowed under by marketing."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2857.18,"endTime":2857.27,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2857.27,"endTime":2858.049,"body":"And that's what this is."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2858.169,"endTime":2858.62,"body":"Totally."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2859.129,"endTime":2861.529,"body":"Alright, Alex musical or non"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2859.129,"endTime":2861.529,"body":"musical for the transition?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2861.62,"endTime":2862.58,"body":"Oh my gosh."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2862.7,"endTime":2863.39,"body":"Um."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2864.365,"endTime":2865.185,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2865.214,"endTime":2866.734,"body":"Uh, let's do musical."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2866.734,"endTime":2867.635,"body":"I think I could do it."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2868.115,"endTime":2868.445,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2868.445,"endTime":2872.625,"body":"So this has not been widely reported,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2868.445,"endTime":2872.625,"body":"but when they were filming that video of"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2872.625,"endTime":2877.955,"body":"Altman and Ive, um, they actually hired,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2872.625,"endTime":2877.955,"body":"um, some of the demons from Fresh AI Hell"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2877.955,"endTime":2881.735,"body":"to like, keep people off the streets so"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2877.955,"endTime":2881.735,"body":"they could just have their extras in."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2882.345,"endTime":2887.315,"body":"Um, so you are, um, let's do musical"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2882.345,"endTime":2887.315,"body":"theater, doing a number where you"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2887.315,"endTime":2891.485,"body":"are one of those demons rebuffing the"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2887.315,"endTime":2891.485,"body":"people who want to come and either"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2891.485,"endTime":2894.845,"body":"just live their normal San Francisco"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2891.485,"endTime":2894.845,"body":"lives, or go gawk at Sam Altman."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2895.535,"endTime":2895.865,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2895.865,"endTime":2900.185,"body":"So this is in the style of,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2895.865,"endTime":2900.185,"body":"you know, like in the Heights."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2900.485,"endTime":2906.215,"body":"Um, so it's, uh, we, we'll"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2900.485,"endTime":2906.215,"body":"call it \"In Jackson Square.\""},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2906.275,"endTime":2909.665,"body":"And it's also gonna do something where"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2906.275,"endTime":2909.665,"body":"it sets up one of the hype artifacts."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2910.085,"endTime":2915.77,"body":"So we'll start with the classic like,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2910.085,"endTime":2915.77,"body":"uh, the, the, the, it's like the, the"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2915.77,"endTime":2918.02,"body":"little Morocco shaker, so it's like"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2923.509,"endTime":2925.1,"body":"Up in Jackson Square."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2925.1,"endTime":2929.66,"body":"We got hair, going on with"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2925.1,"endTime":2929.66,"body":"Jony Ive and Sam Altman."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2929.99,"endTime":2935.689,"body":"Don't cross this line because if you"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2929.99,"endTime":2935.689,"body":"do, I'm gonna find you down with some--"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2935.875,"endTime":2937.279,"body":"Oh, man, I lost that."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2937.279,"endTime":2939.35,"body":"I just, I needed to write some bars out."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2939.35,"endTime":2940.22,"body":"That was too hard."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2940.549,"endTime":2941.629,"body":"Let's just go back."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2941.66,"endTime":2944.18,"body":"It's, let's say they just draw a line."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2944.509,"endTime":2947.98,"body":"And then they, and then they say,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2944.509,"endTime":2947.98,"body":"we wrote this we, we drew this sigil"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2947.98,"endTime":2950.18,"body":"using  ChatGPT and then people cross it."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2950.18,"endTime":2953.299,"body":"Anyways, Christie, edit this out."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2953.299,"endTime":2954.56,"body":"This is, this is not good."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2954.56,"endTime":2954.799,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2954.895,"endTime":2956.75,"body":"It, it, it,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2954.895,"endTime":2956.75,"body":"it started strong though."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2956.93,"endTime":2957.319,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2957.319,"endTime":2960.529,"body":"So, but the, uh, artifact that you"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2957.319,"endTime":2960.529,"body":"are talking about in Fresh AI Hell"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2960.529,"endTime":2963.919,"body":"is this one by MicroSFF by O Westin."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2964.22,"endTime":2966.229,"body":"Um, this is a post on Bluesky."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2966.56,"endTime":2968.569,"body":"\"The sigil was drawn in salt and ash."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2968.569,"endTime":2970.91,"body":"The candles lit at the pentagram points."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2970.94,"endTime":2972.379,"body":"The incantation declaimed."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2972.649,"endTime":2974.509,"body":"There was a shimmer -- a demon appeared."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2975.049,"endTime":2978.799,"body":"'Curious, what ritual is"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2975.049,"endTime":2978.799,"body":"this?' 'I got it from ChatGPT."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2978.839,"endTime":2982.73,"body":"I included all protections in my"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2978.839,"endTime":2982.73,"body":"prompt!' 'I see,' the demon said"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2982.79,"endTime":2983.899,"body":"and stepped out of the sigil.'\""},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2985.94,"endTime":2986.81,"body":"This is, this is great."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2986.81,"endTime":2990.83,"body":"It's, it's, it's giving"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2986.81,"endTime":2990.83,"body":"\"ChatGPT, don't hallucinate.\""},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2991.279,"endTime":2991.43,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2992.779,"endTime":2993.109,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":2993.109,"endTime":2994.279,"body":"You get the next one here."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2995.15,"endTime":2997.97,"body":"So this is, oh, it"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2995.15,"endTime":2997.97,"body":"looks like the headline is not,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2997.97,"endTime":2998.96,"body":"can you scroll up a little more?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2999.08,"endTime":2999.2,"body":"Yep."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":2999.26,"endTime":3001.15,"body":"So this is 404 Media."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3001.49,"endTime":3004.06,"body":"Um, this is by one of their"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3001.49,"endTime":3004.06,"body":"newer journalists, Matthew Gault."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3004.6,"endTime":3008.92,"body":"And the title is, \"Authors"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3004.6,"endTime":3008.92,"body":"are Accidentally Leaving AI"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3008.92,"endTime":3010.6,"body":"Prompts in their Novels.\""},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3011.17,"endTime":3015.7,"body":"And, um, the prompt that they got"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3011.17,"endTime":3015.7,"body":"is, \"'I've written the passage to"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3015.7,"endTime":3020.89,"body":"align more with J. Bree's style,'"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3015.7,"endTime":3020.89,"body":"appeared in the middle of a tense scene"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3020.89,"endTime":3023.47,"body":"with a scaled dragon prince.\" Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3023.47,"endTime":3025.78,"body":"So this is pretty, pretty bad stuff."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3025.81,"endTime":3031.15,"body":"Um, and if you go to Goodreads, you"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3025.81,"endTime":3031.15,"body":"know, this stuff has just been absolutely"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3031.15,"endTime":3033.55,"body":"panned by, uh, by all the reviewers."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3033.97,"endTime":3034.18,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3034.18,"endTime":3037.45,"body":"And one of the authors that they're"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3034.18,"endTime":3037.45,"body":"talking about here tries to make"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3037.45,"endTime":3039.79,"body":"it sound like it wasn't her fault,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3037.45,"endTime":3039.79,"body":"that she had trusted someone else"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3039.79,"endTime":3041.74,"body":"to like edit a document for her."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3041.74,"endTime":3044.53,"body":"And they had put that in, like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3041.74,"endTime":3044.53,"body":"not believing that for a second."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3044.71,"endTime":3044.8,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3044.8,"endTime":3045.28,"body":"I don't either."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3045.37,"endTime":3048.609,"body":"Thinking about just"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3045.37,"endTime":3048.609,"body":"how careful we were checking all of"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3048.609,"endTime":3050.29,"body":"the copy edits to our manuscript."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3050.59,"endTime":3050.86,"body":"Like, no."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3050.919,"endTime":3051.22,"body":"I know."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3051.7,"endTime":3055.569,"body":"And still, still missing a"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3051.7,"endTime":3055.569,"body":"few things, unfortunately."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3055.569,"endTime":3056.95,"body":"But that's, that's what it is."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3057.669,"endTime":3057.97,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3057.97,"endTime":3061.13,"body":"Here we are on Forbes with an"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3057.97,"endTime":3061.13,"body":"enormous amount of advertising."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3061.69,"endTime":3067.66,"body":"Um, uh, headline is, uh, \" These AI"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3061.69,"endTime":3067.66,"body":"tutors for kids gave fentanyl recipes"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3067.66,"endTime":3072.16,"body":"and dangerous diet advice.\" Uh,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3067.66,"endTime":3072.16,"body":"journalist is Emily Baker White, um,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3072.16,"endTime":3074.71,"body":"on Forbes' staff, from May 12th, 2025."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3074.98,"endTime":3079.21,"body":"And the, um, subhead says, \"AI study"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3074.98,"endTime":3079.21,"body":"aid chatbots are supposed to help"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3079.21,"endTime":3082.36,"body":"kids with homework questions, but"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3079.21,"endTime":3082.36,"body":"in test conversations with Forbes,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3082.36,"endTime":3086.17,"body":"they did quite a bit more, including"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3082.36,"endTime":3086.17,"body":"providing detailed recipes for date"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3086.17,"endTime":3088.45,"body":"rape drugs and pickup artistry advice.\""},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3089.5,"endTime":3092.74,"body":"Which is like, yes, this is one of"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3089.5,"endTime":3092.74,"body":"the downsides that, that I guess was"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3092.74,"endTime":3096.46,"body":"predictable, but they hadn't thought"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3092.74,"endTime":3096.46,"body":"through, to taking a system, trained on"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3096.46,"endTime":3099.76,"body":"all the texts and saying, and now you can"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3096.46,"endTime":3099.76,"body":"use it for this specific purpose, but it's"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3099.76,"endTime":3101.26,"body":"still got all that training data in it."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3101.44,"endTime":3101.73,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3103.19,"endTime":3103.569,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3103.83,"endTime":3104.62,"body":"Awful stuff."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3104.625,"endTime":3106.06,"body":"You,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3104.625,"endTime":3106.06,"body":"you get the next one."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3106.06,"endTime":3106.81,"body":"Next one."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3106.84,"endTime":3114.22,"body":"This is some more reporting on, uh, the"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3106.84,"endTime":3114.22,"body":"xAI, uh, uh, data center in Memphis."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3114.76,"endTime":3117.01,"body":"And the title, this is in Politico."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3117.34,"endTime":3122.89,"body":"This is, says, \"How come I can't breathe?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3117.34,"endTime":3122.89,"body":"Musk's data company draws a backlash in"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3122.89,"endTime":3129.58,"body":"Memphis.\" And, um, this is by, let's see,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3122.89,"endTime":3129.58,"body":"the author on this, Ariel Wittenberg."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3129.97,"endTime":3132.49,"body":"And so this is some"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3129.97,"endTime":3132.49,"body":"longer reporting on this."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3132.61,"endTime":3137.98,"body":"Um, and I also want to shout out"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3132.61,"endTime":3137.98,"body":"the Tech Policy Press reporting"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3137.98,"endTime":3139.99,"body":"on this, which was very good."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3139.99,"endTime":3143.53,"body":"There was kind of, sort of a discussion"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3139.99,"endTime":3143.53,"body":"with a journalist from The Guardian that's"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3143.53,"endTime":3149.74,"body":"been reporting on data center stuff and"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3143.53,"endTime":3149.74,"body":"an activist, um, working and organizing"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3149.74,"endTime":3155.41,"body":"against the data centers in Memphis, which"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3149.74,"endTime":3155.41,"body":"are polluting Box Town, which is a poor"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3155.41,"endTime":3157.36,"body":"Black neighborhood in southwest Memphis."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3158.44,"endTime":3160.09,"body":"So important"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3158.44,"endTime":3160.09,"body":"story to know about."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3160.42,"endTime":3160.51,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3162.07,"endTime":3164.63,"body":"Uh, next"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3162.07,"endTime":3164.63,"body":"one is a post on Bluesky."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3164.89,"endTime":3168.13,"body":"Um, and this is actually a"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3164.89,"endTime":3168.13,"body":"PSA, so the poster here is,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3168.16,"endTime":3171.55,"body":"uh, Paul \"Princejvstin\" Weimer."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3171.7,"endTime":3177.565,"body":"Um, and it's from May 15th of this"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3171.7,"endTime":3177.565,"body":"year, and it is a quote post, or, sorry,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3177.565,"endTime":3181.645,"body":"not a quote post, but a, a picture, a"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3177.565,"endTime":3181.645,"body":"screen cap of another post on Bluesky by"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3181.645,"endTime":3186.715,"body":"something called @Gemini.Botsky.Social"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3181.645,"endTime":3186.715,"body":"with the text, \"By the way, did you know"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3186.715,"endTime":3189.805,"body":"when you talk to me in a thread, I can"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3186.715,"endTime":3189.805,"body":"see the entire thread to formulate my"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3189.805,"endTime":3193.675,"body":"reply. That helps me be a more useful"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3189.805,"endTime":3193.675,"body":"part of the conversation.\" And there's"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3193.675,"endTime":3195.055,"body":"more, but that's enough synthetic text."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3196.015,"endTime":3201.115,"body":"Point is Google has put a"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3196.015,"endTime":3201.115,"body":"Gemini bot onto Bluesky that--"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3201.805,"endTime":3202.075,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3202.075,"endTime":3203.605,"body":"I don't know if it's actually Gemini."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3203.605,"endTime":3206.095,"body":"I think someone might"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3203.605,"endTime":3206.095,"body":"have just used the API."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3206.815,"endTime":3210.925,"body":"Um, 'cause now when I click that"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3206.815,"endTime":3210.925,"body":"through it is, it says the account"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3210.925,"endTime":3212.645,"body":"is not owned or operated by Google."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3213.035,"endTime":3218.785,"body":"So it's basically someone effectively"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3213.035,"endTime":3218.785,"body":"just plugged a Gemini bot onto"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3218.785,"endTime":3224.854,"body":"Bluesky, um, and now you can just"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3218.785,"endTime":3224.854,"body":"tag it and it does annoying things."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3224.854,"endTime":3226.564,"body":"So block accordingly."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3226.585,"endTime":3226.975,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3226.981,"endTime":3227.02,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3227.095,"endTime":3231.145,"body":"The reason this is a PSA is what"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3227.095,"endTime":3231.145,"body":"Paul said in his post, which is"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3231.295,"endTime":3232.645,"body":"\"Sharing so you can block it.\""},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3233.335,"endTime":3233.545,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3234.205,"endTime":3234.445,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3235.705,"endTime":3236.635,"body":"You get this one, Alex."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3236.635,"endTime":3237.115,"body":"Sorry."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3237.325,"endTime":3237.715,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3237.715,"endTime":3239.515,"body":"No, this one's pretty awful."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3239.515,"endTime":3241.105,"body":"It came out a few weeks ago."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3241.945,"endTime":3245.635,"body":"Uh, so this is from, uh, ABC 15."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3245.995,"endTime":3248.225,"body":"Um, but I've seen it a few other places."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3248.225,"endTime":3253.195,"body":"So it's \"Family uses AI to create"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3248.225,"endTime":3253.195,"body":"video for deadly Chandler road rage"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3253.195,"endTime":3254.995,"body":"victim's own impact statement.\""},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3255.865,"endTime":3261.835,"body":"Um, and then the subhead is, \"There"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3255.865,"endTime":3261.835,"body":"is no other known use of AI in the"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3261.835,"endTime":3267.265,"body":"creation of victim impact statements.\""},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3261.835,"endTime":3267.265,"body":"Um, and then there's a thing where,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3267.355,"endTime":3273.49,"body":"um, the, there's like a AI generated"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3267.355,"endTime":3273.49,"body":"video preview and the caption on it"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3273.49,"endTime":3279.22,"body":"is, \"Christopher Pelkey was killed in a"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3273.49,"endTime":3279.22,"body":"road rage incident in Chandler in 2021."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3279.22,"endTime":3283.24,"body":"But last month, artificial intelligence"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3279.22,"endTime":3283.24,"body":"brought him back to life during"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3283.24,"endTime":3284.83,"body":"his killer's sentencing hearing."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3285.19,"endTime":3289.57,"body":"It was the first time in Arizona's"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3285.19,"endTime":3289.57,"body":"judicial history and possibly nationwide"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3290.02,"endTime":3293.41,"body":"that AI has been used to create a"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3290.02,"endTime":3293.41,"body":"deceased victim's own impact statement.\""},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3293.86,"endTime":3293.92,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3294.01,"endTime":3298.33,"body":"So really, um, and the, I think the"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3294.01,"endTime":3298.33,"body":"most horrifying thing about this story"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3299.41,"endTime":3303.7,"body":"is that the, um, the family really"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3299.41,"endTime":3303.7,"body":"talks about it very approvingly."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3304.15,"endTime":3306.46,"body":"Like, oh gosh, it's so,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3304.15,"endTime":3306.46,"body":"it's so helpful to hear."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3306.46,"endTime":3307.99,"body":"So I'm like, no, what are you doing?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3308.47,"endTime":3309.155,"body":"What are you doing here?"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3310.465,"endTime":3310.755,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3310.775,"endTime":3314.8,"body":"And now you know, Alex, in the pre-show"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3310.775,"endTime":3314.8,"body":"you said did we already do this story"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3314.8,"endTime":3317.2,"body":"and we didn't do this particular"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3314.8,"endTime":3317.2,"body":"reporting on it, but now I'm thinking"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3317.2,"endTime":3318.43,"body":"like, maybe we did talk about it."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3318.85,"endTime":3319.48,"body":"It's awful."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3319.48,"endTime":3320.53,"body":"It remains awful."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3320.74,"endTime":3323.53,"body":"Um, and I should have double checked,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3320.74,"endTime":3323.53,"body":"I guess we'll find out afterwards."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3323.77,"endTime":3324.07,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3324.4,"endTime":3324.64,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3324.64,"endTime":3327.19,"body":"We have two chasers though,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3324.64,"endTime":3327.19,"body":"to end things off with here."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3327.67,"endTime":3328.06,"body":"Um."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3329.154,"endTime":3329.544,"body":"This one--"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3329.544,"endTime":3331.075,"body":"I don't know"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3329.544,"endTime":3331.075,"body":"if this is really a chaser."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3331.584,"endTime":3331.674,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3331.884,"endTime":3332.185,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3332.185,"endTime":3336.504,"body":"So this is another post on Bluesky"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3332.185,"endTime":3336.504,"body":"by, uh, Brandon Williams, uh,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3336.564,"endTime":3341.634,"body":"commenting that AI ads know their"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3336.564,"endTime":3341.634,"body":"target demo and it is a, um, screen"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3341.634,"endTime":3344.035,"body":"cap of something called Galaxy.ai."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3344.424,"endTime":3349.734,"body":"Um, and the tagline is, there, \"Friends"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3344.424,"endTime":3349.734,"body":"come and go, but GalaxyAI has your back."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3349.734,"endTime":3351.865,"body":"Get started now.\" Rocket ship emoji."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3352.285,"endTime":3359.634,"body":"And then the picture inside says, \"The"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3352.285,"endTime":3359.634,"body":"evolution of my social circle.\" And 2023,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3359.875,"endTime":3363.714,"body":"uh, there's images of, uh, 25 people."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3363.865,"endTime":3365.164,"body":"2024 is down to 3."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3365.164,"endTime":3367.905,"body":"2025, it's just Galaxy.ai."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3369.155,"endTime":3371.845,"body":"Which is, this was the one that I,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3369.155,"endTime":3371.845,"body":"that I said earlier in the episode was,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3371.845,"endTime":3377.365,"body":"uh, prefigured when, um, by something"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3371.845,"endTime":3377.365,"body":"in the, in the Altman and Ive video."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3377.709,"endTime":3378.0,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3378.834,"endTime":3379.134,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3379.134,"endTime":3384.37,"body":"This reflects the thing that Zuckerberg"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3379.134,"endTime":3384.37,"body":"said effectively that the average person"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3384.37,"endTime":3389.26,"body":"has three friends and we need to supple,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3384.37,"endTime":3389.26,"body":"you know, supplement that with, uh,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3389.8,"endTime":3392.56,"body":"some kind of these, these LLM agents."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3393.55,"endTime":3398.2,"body":"Um, so yeah, really, uh,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3393.55,"endTime":3398.2,"body":"really dark stuff here."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3398.98,"endTime":3399.22,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3399.46,"endTime":3402.52,"body":"Christie's telling me that the, the,"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3399.46,"endTime":3402.52,"body":"the last episode of our podcast did"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3402.52,"endTime":3403.87,"body":"not have that victim statement thing."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3403.9,"endTime":3405.22,"body":"So it's good that we covered it."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3405.22,"endTime":3405.49,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3405.67,"endTime":3406.57,"body":"We, we covered it."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3406.57,"endTime":3408.45,"body":"Now, you know, now you"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3406.57,"endTime":3408.45,"body":"have to hear about this."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3408.95,"endTime":3409.42,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3409.45,"endTime":3411.19,"body":"This is, I think, a bit of a chaser."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3411.25,"endTime":3411.34,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3411.34,"endTime":3412.3,"body":"Actual chaser here."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3412.84,"endTime":3420.22,"body":"Uh, so this is from David Gerard, um,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3412.84,"endTime":3420.22,"body":"on Bluesky, who runs, um, Pivot to AI."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3420.76,"endTime":3427.69,"body":"Um, and the, and it's a quote,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3420.76,"endTime":3427.69,"body":"tweet, uh, is a quote, skeet of a"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3427.69,"endTime":3429.46,"body":"quote tweet or skeet, I don't know."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3429.88,"endTime":3430.45,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3432.085,"endTime":3436.045,"body":"And so the original, and it's a, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3432.085,"endTime":3436.045,"body":"there's another one that says I, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3436.045,"endTime":3440.065,"body":"it's blurring out who said this, and"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3436.045,"endTime":3440.065,"body":"it's, I, it says the, the more important"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3440.065,"endTime":3447.805,"body":"thing here is, \"The reason I am trying"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3440.065,"endTime":3447.805,"body":"to make LGBTESCREAL a meme is that I"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3447.805,"endTime":3451.795,"body":"think leftists and effective altruist"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3447.805,"endTime":3451.795,"body":"have a lot more in common than they"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3451.795,"endTime":3455.845,"body":"might think. And were they, to learn"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3451.795,"endTime":3455.845,"body":"from each other, both would be stronger.\""},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3455.845,"endTime":3459.475,"body":"And then there's something about"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3455.845,"endTime":3459.475,"body":"like, you know, building alliances."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3459.955,"endTime":3464.155,"body":"And then Gerard said, David Gerard says,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3459.955,"endTime":3464.155,"body":"\"let's form an alliance of the leftist,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3464.155,"endTime":3468.655,"body":"the queers and checks, notes the tech"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3464.155,"endTime":3468.655,"body":"fascists obsessed with race science and"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3468.655,"endTime":3474.445,"body":"sucking up to rich guys. Unity through"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3468.655,"endTime":3474.445,"body":"strength! We could get AI to generate"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3474.445,"endTime":3476.335,"body":"a rainbow logo in red and brown.\""},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3477.095,"endTime":3477.575,"body":"Oh no."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3477.925,"endTime":3483.955,"body":"And so, yeah, so just"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3477.925,"endTime":3483.955,"body":"absolutely, you know, um, nonsensical."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3484.015,"endTime":3488.035,"body":"And I've seen this argument before"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3484.015,"endTime":3488.035,"body":"where someone has said like, I don't"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3488.035,"endTime":3493.419,"body":"know why, you know, why shouldn't trans"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3488.035,"endTime":3493.419,"body":"people love, you know, transhumanism,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3493.419,"endTime":3495.16,"body":"that's also like body hacking."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3495.64,"endTime":3499.899,"body":"And as, you know, as a trans"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3495.64,"endTime":3499.899,"body":"person, this absolutely sent me."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3500.229,"endTime":3505.39,"body":"I'm like, yes, in some cases the"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3500.229,"endTime":3505.39,"body":"body is a horror and some other"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3505.39,"endTime":3507.339,"body":"cases the body is liberatory."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3507.759,"endTime":3514.39,"body":"At no point does the, does the TESCREAL,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3507.759,"endTime":3514.39,"body":"fascist eugenicist vision serve the"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3514.39,"endTime":3516.819,"body":"kind of gender that I want to express."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3517.39,"endTime":3518.74,"body":"I refuse this."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3519.535,"endTime":3521.095,"body":"Thank you for participating."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3521.095,"endTime":3523.435,"body":"We will not make an alliance anytime soon."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3524.665,"endTime":3525.265,"body":"Thank you for that."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3525.505,"endTime":3525.745,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3527.065,"endTime":3527.365,"body":"Whew."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3527.665,"endTime":3528.265,"body":"Alright."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3528.415,"endTime":3530.575,"body":"I, now I have to get back to"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3528.415,"endTime":3530.575,"body":"my other correct window here."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3530.815,"endTime":3530.905,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3530.905,"endTime":3532.975,"body":"Um, it has been a ride today, hasn't it?"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3532.98,"endTime":3534.055,"body":"Yeah, it's been a lot."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3534.355,"endTime":3538.255,"body":"Uh, sorry for putting you through"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3534.355,"endTime":3538.255,"body":"that, uh, that video ordeal."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3538.465,"endTime":3541.055,"body":"Uh, we're trying a new thing,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3538.465,"endTime":3541.055,"body":"but I think it was fun."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3541.325,"endTime":3542.365,"body":"Maybe we'll do more of those."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3542.485,"endTime":3543.655,"body":"If you like it, let us know."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3544.285,"endTime":3545.215,"body":"That's it for this week."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3545.215,"endTime":3549.015,"body":"Our theme song was by Toby Menon,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3545.215,"endTime":3549.015,"body":"graphic design by Naomi Pleasure-Park,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3549.355,"endTime":3551.035,"body":"production by Christie Taylor."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3551.275,"endTime":3554.575,"body":"And thanks as always to the"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3551.275,"endTime":3554.575,"body":"Distributed AI Research Institute."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3555.295,"endTime":3558.985,"body":"If you like this show, you can"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3555.295,"endTime":3558.985,"body":"support us in so many ways."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3559.48,"endTime":3564.94,"body":"Order \"The AI Con\" at TheCon.AI,"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3559.48,"endTime":3564.94,"body":"or wherever you get your books or"},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3564.94,"endTime":3566.68,"body":"request it at your local library."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3566.95,"endTime":3568.12,"body":"But wait, there's more."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3568.18,"endTime":3570.1,"body":"Rate and review us on your podcast app."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3570.31,"endTime":3573.52,"body":"Subscribe to the mystery AI Hype"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3570.31,"endTime":3573.52,"body":"Theater 3000 newsletter on button"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3573.52,"endTime":3578.36,"body":"down for more anti hype analysis, or"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3573.52,"endTime":3578.36,"body":"donate to DAIR at DAIR-Institute.org."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3578.38,"endTime":3581.529,"body":"That's D-A-I-R hyphen Institute dot org."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3582.01,"endTime":3585.46,"body":"You can find video versions of our"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3582.01,"endTime":3585.46,"body":"podcast episodes on Peertube, and you"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3585.46,"endTime":3588.46,"body":"can watch and comment on the show while"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3585.46,"endTime":3588.46,"body":"it's happening live on our twitch stream."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3588.64,"endTime":3591.24,"body":"That's Twitch.TV/DAIR_Institute."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3591.37,"endTime":3593.69,"body":"Again, that's D A I R"},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3591.37,"endTime":3593.69,"body":"underscore Institute."},{"speaker":"Emily M. Bender","startTime":3593.85,"endTime":3595.06,"body":"I'm Emily M. Bender."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3595.42,"endTime":3596.44,"body":"And I'm Alex Hanna."},{"speaker":"Alex Hanna","startTime":3596.52,"endTime":3598.03,"body":"Stay out of AI Hell y'all."}]}