The Spectacular Science of Trees

Everyone knows trees are incredibly important to a healthy planet, but do we really understand the spectacular impact trees have on human health? Brendan digs into the exceptional value of trees in everyday life with experts passionate about the good going on under the branches. 

Transcript

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Hello everyone, and welcome to. That's understandable. I'm your host, Brendan McEvoy, US head of External Communications at AstraZeneca. If this podcast has been enjoyable and informative for you, take a moment to like and follow on your favorite streaming service. And if you know anyone else interested in today's topic, be sure to share, because our goal is to help everyone to better understand what science can do when we all work together. I want you to imagine something with me. It's a warm Saturday in late spring. You've had a long week at work, and you need a little time to decompress. So you pack a picnic basket and a blanket and you head out to your local park. The sun is beating down just a bit hotter than you expected, so you find a shady spot under the branches of an old oak tree. You sprawl out your blanket on the ground next to the tree. Lean your back against the trunk and take a deep breath. As you watch the branches sway and the leaves blow in the wind. You're refreshed, the air seems cleaner and you feel calmer, healthier and more alert. This isn't your imagination. It's science. Even if you're a few acorns short of an oak tree, you believe in the power of trees after this discussion. Trees have long been known to have several beneficial effects on human health and the environment. Overall. A Pennsylvania study published in science magazine all the way back in 1984, showed that patients with a view of a tree outside their hospital room had significantly shorter recovery times after surgery. Another study, published in Nature Portfolio in 2020, show that patients with depression who live in areas with more trees were less likely to be prescribed an antidepressant medication. These examples don't even begin to scratch the surface or bark, if you will, of the benefits that trees provide. Things like removing CO2 from the atmosphere, fighting wind and water erosion, and providing renewable resources. Fortunately, I'm joined by three guests today who are more than capable of helping me whittle down this big topic into something a little easier to comprehend. First off is Doctor Jessica Turner Skoff, associate director of science communications at Longwood Gardens. She is an award winning professional who focuses on bridging the gap between science and society by highlighting how plants not only make life possible, they make it worth living. Welcome doctor Turner Skoff, thank you so much. It's so great to be here and I love the tree puns. Our next guest is Doctor Peter James, associate professor in the Department of Public Health Sciences at the University of California, Davis School of Medicine and an adjunct associate professor in the Department of Environmental Health at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. His research has been focused on estimating the influence of exposure to nature and other environmental factors on human behaviors, mental health, and chronic disease. Welcome, Doctor James. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. And last but not least is doctor Holly Bamford, chief conservation officer for the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation. Or we're for short knife with is focused on outcome based conservation, promoting the multiple benefits that healthy habits provide. Welcome, Doctor Bamford, and thank you for joining us. Thank you Brendan. Glad to be here. So I'd like to start with a softball question for each of you, which is and let Doctor Turner Skoff, we'll start with you. What is it that makes trees so spectacular? Well, that may be a softball question, but narrowing that down, I will try to keep my answer under three hours just for the sake of this podcast. but trees are just spectacular for so many reasons. You know, besides being the anchor of the ecosystem and ecosystems and serving as the lungs of the world, cleaning our air, they make the lives of people better in so many incredibly diverse ways. You know, the ones that I'd like to point out would be, you know, mental health, physical health and social health. There's a growing body of research that shows that, you know, removing extraneous variables, really focusing on trees and the benefits that they provide that if you are around nature, you're more likely to have reduced negative thoughts, reduced symptoms of depression, lower levels of cortisol, which is so incredibly, incredibly important for your physical health as well. You know, trees can help encourage physical activity. And, you know, as far as social health goes, it really a holistic perspective would be they can improve kids ability to concentrate and perform in school. They can help reduce violence and aggression in households. They create an atmosphere of community. So the reason that trees are so spectacular is because they just make our lives so much better. They make us better people. And, you know, we're really so lucky to have them. Thank you. And I hope we'll definitely dive into sort of a lot of those components more. But it was great to sort of your overview of of why they are so spectacular. Maybe next, Doctor James, I'll turn to you. You know what? From your perspective, what makes trees so spectacular? Yeah. you know, to be the dry, epidemiologist here, I want to kick things off with, you know, the biologist E.O. Wilson. You know, he coined this term or popularized this term, biophilia, that we've evolved with nature to have an affinity for nature. And I think it's important, you know, we often think about how do we get connected to nature. I think there's another perspective here in that we are nature, right? This is where we evolved in, you know, around trees. You know, we're not supposed to be staring at computer screens all day long. so this is, you know, our natural setting. This is where we were supposed to be. And I think our relationship with trees, you know, that kind of underpins this idea. And there's there's some theories also, that get at this a little further. The first would be stress recovery theory. Now again, we've we've evolved to recover from stressors in natural settings. Right. And so something about being around trees activates our parasympathetic nervous system in ways that reduce stress and autonomic arousal. you know, they evoke positive affect so we can have a better mood and reaction to stress. And that helps us to recover from stressors and be ready for the next, you know, evolutionary task. Right? That's, you know, one theory. Another theory is, you know, attention restoration theory. And you mentioned, you know, something about being around trees helps us to focus. you know, there is this, this idea that it's something about being in an urban environment or staring at a computer screen. Taxes are attentional control are directing attention. And something about, you know, watching trees sway in the wind, helps us to replenish that directed attention and be ready for more, you know, cognitive tasks that are a little bit more challenging. And I think about this is, you know, when you're writing and you're focused and you hit a block, you stop for a second, stare out the window, you take that beat and you, you know, look at a tree and you look outside and you turn back and say, okay, I'm ready for the next task. And I think, you know, those types of things are amazing that that trees can provide these services for us. you know, you mentioned the randomized trial in the hospital in Pennsylvania. You know, this gold standard of randomized trials. There are other trials having people walk in nature versus walk in urban environments doing, you know, a cognitive test before and after or doing, you know, some questions about mental health. And pretty consistently, we see that people perform better on cognitive tests after walking amongst trees. And they their their mood is improved. Yeah. There is certainly growing evidence there's something special about trees. that's great and definitely one to dig into that more. How about you, Doctor Bamford? What makes him so spectacular in your eyes? Yeah. I mean, I think what Jessica and Peter said is just fantastic. And just to play off that a little bit, I mean, one of the things I find most fascinating about trees is how spectacular they work together to form this amazing, complex, yet beautiful thing we call forest. and, and if we, if we approach conservation from, like this ecosystem landscape perspective. And so we tend to focus more on the forest than on the tree. but when you think about it, forests are so much like human communities, like a community of forest thrives. They need to have diversity among their individual. They need to have a diversity and age structure in the type of tree, and for them to be healthy and resilient in the face of disease and disaster, whatever else gets thrown in their way. They really need to have a healthy, healthy community among the trees. And so at NIF with and our partners like AstraZeneca, we focus our efforts on what makes forest healthy and resilient. And, you know, I, I think of ourselves as doctors for forest, a lot of the work that we do is we do wellness checks. We do health plans, for forest, and we even triage after they've been impacted by storms and wildfire. So really, it's a it's an all hands on deck. And, really, to protect these just spectacular ecosystems is just one of the things I love to do. It's clear from each of you, right? You could tell just by how you light up when we when you're answering the question that that you're all big fans, you're passionate about trees and all of the different angles and roles that they play in our world. There was a collection of studies that were compiled in 2021, and a review of public health showed that exposure to green spaces is associated with a myriad of health benefits, such as better pregnancy outcomes like birth weight, improved mental health, a lower risk of chronic disease, and reduced premature mortality, just to name a few. And I think many of you actually all of you mentioned additional benefits, both from sort of a medical but just sort of a broader perspective as well in terms of mood and things like that. But I'd like to actually hear a little bit more about about the impact on human health. So, Doctor James, I know you've done quite a bit of research in this space as you as you shared. on the last question, can you tell us a little bit more about the direct impact between health and exposure or proximity to trees? Yeah. So, I mean, there's a growing body of research on how trees might impact, you know, longer term health outcomes, heart health outcomes. And, you know, first off, I think it's worth talking about the main mechanisms, the main pathways we think about when we think about trees and health. So, you know, trees may buffer our exposure to air pollution. They may clean the air. they may buffer our exposure to noise and also make cool urban environments and buffer our exposure to extreme temperatures. And those all those factors have independent impacts on health outcomes. they may provide an ideal setting for physical activity, and social engagement may make you more likely to go out for a run that you know around where trees are shading, or maybe interact with your neighbors and, you know, physically. Activity and social engagement also have strong independent impacts on health. And then there's that kind of direct you know, we just talked about this, but the direct impact of just looking at a tree that might impact impact our stress or our cognitive function, and that also might have downstream consequences for health. And, you know, there have been literally hundreds if not thousands of studies at this point that find fairly consistent association between exposure to nature, you know, living in an area with more trees and, you know, higher birthweight babies, lower incidence of depression and anxiety, better physical activity and sleep, lower rates of cancer and cardiovascular disease, improve cognitive function, lower Alzheimer's risk. You know, we're seeing studies, show lower Parkinson's. You know, hospitalizations, many, many outcomes, you know, and even living longer. And that's that's fairly consistent now that we show that independent of adjusting for, you know, neighborhoods, socioeconomic factors, we see that people who live in greener areas live longer. and, you know, these studies have been conducted in countries throughout the globe using an array of study designs, looking at different populations. And findings are generally consistent. So I think there's some real traction there. Something going on there. you know, there's certainly some limitations in these studies. They usually use course measures of vegetation that won't allow us to really pick out trees per se. but we're working on that. You know, we're using things like Google Street View to understand specific trees. We're looking at lidar data to understand tree canopy cover so we can do better. And we're working on this. but I think overall the literature is quite strong. Yeah, I think many people probably haven't thought hard as they, you know, walk down the street if they're in an area that has trees about sort of changes in mood or it almost kind of for most people, it's probably more of like an esthetic sort of esthetically pleasing versus thinking about all of the other, the science behind the impact it has. Is it in this studies, is the, I guess, plainly put, if you think about impact on health conditions, is it things like, you know, cleaner air or is it a combination of like that? Plus is there like an esthetic component to like the the visual more visually pleasing means? I don't know, makes the mood happier and thus I don't know, maybe has an impact on on health that way is kind of a combination or is it, is it sort of one or the other that that seems to have the larger impact on on health? Well, we certainly are trying to tease those mechanisms out. In one study we published, we did look at, what's called mediation are basically looking at how much of these different pathways explain the relationship between, you know, living in a greener area and mortality rates. And we did see that a lot of that pathway was this mental health pathway. Right. So 30% of the association was explained by this mental health pathway. And I think it's really important for the listeners here to know that mental health is is extremely important. Right. And mental health can get under your skin and impact cardiovascular disease and other things down the line. Right. So it's not it's not that it's oh, it's just it's that it's I mean it's next may fundamentally drive our health. Right? If you're living in a place that you that you find depressing with, that might actually impact your health, right? your heart health outcome. So, yeah, I just don't want to, propose something because it's, because it goes through this mental health gap. And that's an extremely important pathway. That's a great point. How about, you, Doctor Bamford and Doctor Turner Skoff? Any additional thoughts on this question? Yeah, I would say, you know, Doctor James obviously has this squarely in his court. you know, we we use a lot of these studies to help us assess the health of an ecosystem and kind of what conservation actions to take. But but I got to say, going back to it, Doctor James said earlier, you know, we are part of the ecosystem, human and trees evolving together. And, and I, I think it's just intuitive that, nature and trees make us feel better. I mean, a perfect personal example for me and something that, you know, it's easy to see is the Central Park example in New York City. I mean, Central Park was one of the first parks created was back in the early 1800s when immigrants were coming to the United States, coming into the grid structure of New York City. And they had the bright idea to section off an area for a park. And, you know, that park today, from a real estate perspective, is worth over $500 billion if developed. But it won't, because that is the literally the only sanctuary that people can go and walk their dog, hang out with their kids, throw a ball around, have a marathon, go to a concert, have a picnic, right? Like just enter, you know, leaving the streets of New York City and entering into Central Park is like a whole different universe. And you see people are happy and, you know, it's just intuitive that, you know, a study can tell you that, but you could see with your own eyes when you go to New York City and you walk into Central Park, what it does to people. And, you know, in my mind, I think of parks like that is literally the heart and lungs of a community. you know, I mentioned along with Gardens Connection earlier, like I think about my experience and, and you can probably describe it better, but it's a, it's I don't know how many acre. It's hundreds of acres of, like, pristine land and flowers and trees. And so that's kind of like my Central Park, if you will. Doctor Bamford, that like, you know, walking in there, it's sort of like you feel like you're in another world, right? It's like an escape from the realities of day to day. you feel like you're just in a clean, open space, and it does sort of change your mood and and all of that that you said. But Doctor Tara Scott, please sort of build on I'd love I'd love your thoughts as well. Yeah, absolutely. Well, Longwood Gardens is an oasis, you know, it's 1100 acres. We have formal gardens, we have natural areas. And, you know, people come here for inspiration. They come here for joy. They come here to be surrounded by beauty. They come here to find solace. Like there is something that's so in, like, just in your soul, you know, and there's a reason, you know, gardens are such a huge industry. I mean, there's over 3000 gardens across the world, and they get over, they get over half a billion visitors a year. That's a tremendous amount of people that are recognizing the power of nature. I did want to say one study that I think is a really compelling, bookend for the ones that were discussed earlier. You know, sometimes we can talk about how great trees are, but what happens when trees go away and we can have there's a great study thanks to a really productive little green shiny bug, the emerald ash borer and so this this is an invasive pest that came in the early 2000s and decimated ash trees across the country. Well, never let a good crisis go to waste. This allowed researchers to actually look at the health of communities that lost their ash trees. And you can trace increased mortality related to cardiovascular and lower respiratory tract illness, based on the loss and the infestation and death of these trees. When we think about how important nature is, I mean, that's such a compelling example, and it's just the need to be in nature. It's recognized by the health care community. There's a reason there's nature prescriptions that are people are writing in Japan, Korea, Australia, the U.S. this is a program that doctors recognize the importance of having their patients be in nature and encouraging them to go improve their health and their lives. As our guest described the myriad of health benefits that trees provide, I was surprised by just how many aspects of life they actually impact, and I wondered just how aware the experts thought the general public is about how badly we need trees. So I'm curious from your different perspective, you know, we just talked about a lot of benefits of trees. Is this and maybe your your perspectives are different because you're maybe surrounded by people that are more like minded. But do you think sort of, generally speaking, that the benefits of trees, and the impact on human health, is it widely known and accepted, or do you think it's sort of like, you know, only in pockets or, you know, certain communities? I think it's intuitive. I think if most people know that nature is special, it's restorative. And so, you know, when you tell people all the benefits, it's a lot of the, oh, of course, you know, discussions is like, oh, that makes complete sense. you know, it's because plants and nature and trees, they provide life and they, they also make life worth living, which is you know, it's a it's essential part of the human condition. And if I could follow up on that, I, I completely agree. I think that in general it's widely believed and people say, oh, of course. However, I think we have not necessarily valued or prioritized trees when it comes to budgeting. When it comes to how we think about investment and maintenance in trees or in any, you know, landscape architecture. right. It's it basically seen as a perk or an amenity for the wealthy and not as something that's fundamental to us as human beings for our survival. Right. And so I think part of what I do and many others do is, you know, baking in this, these ecosystem services and trying to quantify them for human health because we care about ourselves a lot. Right. But also for the health of natural systems that sustain life for planet Earth. Right. So I think it's really important that we go beyond saying, yes, of course I get it. They're great and we actually try and say, look, we need to actually place value on these things and invest in these things because they're so fundamentally important to us for our survival. Yeah, not just add to that at the end there is, you know, I, I agree 100%. You know, people think about trees and what they provide us oxygen. They lower temperature esthetics place to go. But I mean there used to be a time in conservation where you can literally create a park in a refuge and kind of drop it off and nature will heal itself. Not today. humans have definitely altered the ecosystem. And so not only do trees provide us a service, but we now have to provide them service. And I think that's a little bit of what is not known. as Jessica and Peter both say, like, I think people look at trees as providing us a service and they're going to be just fine. But in reality, even my Central Park example, you know, you go through the history of Central Park. There was a time when it wasn't so nice, and it wasn't so central. and they've created a conservancy, really, to oversee the health and, continued sustainability of the park. So it takes people. I also just wanted to say that the Covid era, I think, really provides us with really unique data. And if you look at the horticulture industry at home gardens, house, plants, garden, visitation through the roof numbers. So when people were at their lowest, mental and physical and social health, they were clinging to nature. They were finding ways to incorporate it in their lives. And I know lots of people who their relationship with nature and trees and plants changed during the Covid time period. And I imagine all of you know, somebody or some somebody you love had that change as well. Yeah, I think, lots of friends and family that picked up hobbies, I think, and, you know, doing things they never did before, like like gardening or obviously walking outside and appreciating nature probably more than they ever had in their entire life. so yeah, I guess one of the, one of the benefits that came out of, you know, out of coven. And if I could just follow up on that, you know, Doctor Bamford mentioned this earlier, but with like, Central Park, you know, Frederick Frederick Law Olmsted, this, you know, the landscape architect who designed Central Park in the Emerald Necklace in Boston, many other places. Yeah. And this is like in the 1800s. They didn't really understand germ theory, right. But they understood that parks were a place of refuge and fundamental for health, and even that they were a place that you could go in the time of pandemics. Right. So so we understood, even in the 1800s, that green spaces were essential. you know, now we know it's because there's fresh air and you're, you know, you're not you're not transmitting airborne diseases. but they provide a setting for you to be physically active. Socially active without, you know, risking exposure. and, you know, I think during the early days of Covid, we closed parks, and that was possibly the dumbest thing we did because, you know, people need to be socially active, right? And so people would would still gather indoors. and, and I think we all know now that parks are fundamental. You know, yet another thing that parks are fundamental for is to serve as a refuge during times of pandemic. So, that's a great point, Doctor Bamford. I you know, and I appreciate you mentioning, you know, that AstraZeneca does have this relationship with the knife with, and I wanted to kind of shift gears to that because I think you're seeing more and more organizations, large companies that are, you know, starting to shift either shift or maybe intensify their efforts from a sustainability conservation perspective. And so, like, you mentioned, you know, AstraZeneca has this initiative called Easy Forests, where we're committed to planning and maintaining 200 million trees across six continents by 2030. And like you said, with within the US specifically, we partner with northwest, to plant one or plant. We're partnering with Netflix to plant 1 million trees by the end of 2025. And it's not just about planning, but also to your point, I think it's about sustaining what's already here. you know, how does planting and sustaining trees help to stem the tide of the climate crisis, which, you know, we're hearing more and more what we're we're seeing the impacts are right through storms. And, you know, all these natural disasters. But yeah, Brendan, that's a great question. I mean, this is something that we're getting approach on on a regular basis from other nonprofits, state, federal governments and private sector and companies. And, you know, I think everybody in that everybody recognizes that in the modern world, there's so many threats that are posed to, like, like the climate crisis to wildlife populations, to forests, other natural habitats, that it's no longer enough that we can simply just kind of, like I said earlier, drop it off and it's going to heal itself. That we need to play a part and we have to step up. And so one of the things is tree planting, and especially at the scale that AstraZeneca is undertaking, it plays an an enormous role in ensuring that forests continue to function and provide the what we are calling ecosystem services to, to this planet. And, you know, one of those services, their ability to sequester carbon as they grow. And I think that's what a lot of focus has been on many corporations to say, okay, look, maybe we can counter climate and, you know, start focusing on planting trees, but you can't just plant a tree and then like, walk away. You really have to think about it from a forest perspective. And I think that's exactly what AstraZeneca is doing. And, happy to to give you an example, if you would like, there's one example that a project that we're funding with AstraZeneca that I think really exemplifies, combating the climate crisis. Yeah, yeah. So last year we supported a project in West Virginia, and it was working to restore forest on this land that was previously mined for coal. So literally, it was an area in West Virginia, a coal country area. communities were using that to mined for coal, and it was left as just an abandoned, coal mine. And it was over. I had invasives and just brush on the top of it, and it really wasn't thriving. And so with the partnership with it, we have with AstraZeneca, we're now reestablishing a native hardwood forest on these bare landscapes. And this work is really going to benefit the diversity of, various mammals and fish and salamanders, especially birds. So including these migratory forest birds that come into that geography that fully depend on these forests to survive and to make their journey, coming across the United States and so, so a carbon perspective. This is a really cool thing that as these trees grow over the next 30 years, they will sequester over 40,000 tons of carbon dioxide. And this is the same as removing 8000 cars off the road in a year. And so this is fantastic. I mean, this is what these public private partnerships do. I mean, is, is getting together with corporations, leveraging their resources to do good things in communities. And so if you really think about it, we're helping to turn a once coal production area back to native forests and and working with the communities there that have historically focused on energy extraction, we're now healing those lands. We're actually creating jobs in the forestry sector. We're boosting recreation because this area is going to be open access for people to enjoy. and it's really just improving the quality all around of that, of that area. So we're really, really proud of this partnership we have with AstraZeneca. And that's just one project. We have dozens that we have been funding across the country, so we're pretty excited about it now. Thanks for sharing. That's fantastic to hear. How about, Jessica or Peter, you know, thoughts from you around, you know, how planting sustaining trees is really helping to, to curb the climate crisis? Yes, absolutely. And first of all, I want to say AstraZeneca and Doctor Bamford. Such exciting work. My dissertation was done on previously mined lands, surface mining. So it just really hits home. Yes. Isn't it like one of the places it need help, right? It needs help. Absolutely. And you know, another area that's kind of similar with the far with the, perspective of soil compaction, runoff pollution would be cityscapes. And one of the reasons that trees can be so important for helping, the tide of climate change is just reducing the urban heat island effect. You know, let's say you're at a pharmacy in the summer to get a cold drink. You step outside in the parking lot, you get hit with this wave of heat. That's because cities, they retain heat and they're only going to get hotter, and cities are only going to get bigger. More and more people are moving to cities. And it's predicted that the health related problems with the urban heat island effect will skyrocket. So we need to be combining that green and gray infrastructure picture, making sure that we're taking care of city, city trees that were planning ahead and, you know, kind of thinking about trees as preventative medicine. How can we care for the trees now to make sure we have a healthy and productive future? That's that's a really great point. I think there's there's a growing number of studies that are showing the effects of trees in reducing the effects of heat on mortality and other health outcomes. So I think it's really important to consider. And, you know, one other thing, I will I will, a lot of things have been covered already. but, I think in the context of equity, we also really want to think that, you know, during extreme heat events, you know, low income blacks where, you know, maybe net less likely to have air conditioning as well, or maybe don't want to pay to run air conditioning. Those low income blacks have lower tree cover. and they're going to get a lot hotter. And they've already been yeah. This has been measured that that because of this tree cover, there's there's massive differences between, you know, wealthy and poor areas in terms of the, the actual urban heat island. So, you know, trees may be a vital way to confront not only climate change, but also these kind of health disparities when it comes to, climate change. Yeah. Thanks, James. That actually is a great segue. And you mentioned it earlier. You know, obviously we're talking about sort of urban versus rural and and the variety of access, you know, to trees. And you hit, hit it on the head right there about sort of inequities when it comes to, you know, accessing trees and green space. So recognizing all the benefits that we've talked about, right, from a health, you know, health perspective and others, what is being done or, you know, maybe what is being done or maybe what can be done to help increase equitable access to to trees. Doctor James, I'll start with you. if if that's okay, just. Yeah, I feel like it was a nice continuation on on what you were just talking about for sure. So first off, you know, we published a number of studies using a different metrics that show very stark disparities in terms of who has access to green space in this country. And so, yeah, wealthy white neighborhoods predominantly have the highest access to green space. and, you know, I think it's also important to know that there's a great study in the UK about 20 years ago now, that showed that health disparities between the wealthy and poor were smallest in areas with the highest amount of green space. So this idea that, having more green space in a low income neighborhood may actually improve the health of those residents more than if you added green space to a wealthy neighborhood. Right. and in fact, that the literature I talked about earlier, many of those studies find the same thing that that the effects of trees are strongest in lower income neighborhoods. Right. And that could be because lower income folks may spend more time in their neighborhoods, they may have more preexisting co-morbidities, and they may rely on neighborhood assets more for health. So they're not going to have, you know, a peloton or gym membership, right? So they use their neighborhoods for for health. And so, you know, planting trees may actually decrease health disparities. That's a really valuable way of, thinking about this, this type of intervention. and, you know, the USDA has actually invested money in this, this through the Inflation Reduction Act. they have invested $1.5 billion now on urban forestry projects that are just kicking off. and so these projects, I think it's 385 grant proposals that were that were funded to increase equitable access to trees. And 100% of the funds here are flowing to these justice 40, you know, disadvantaged, historically disadvantaged and underrepresented communities. So I think that that will be great, because we'll be able to invest in urban greening in these neighborhoods. And, you know, I'll put in a plug. There was no funding to study the health effects of these of these, these interventions. Right. So maybe AstraZeneca would want to want to measure some of that, but now putting it out there. but yeah, so I mean, I think there's, there's a lot that's being done. This is a big, a big investment. And I'll be really excited to see where it goes. Yeah, that's fantastic to hear about all that that investment doctor Bamford, any additional thoughts from you. Yeah I mean a lot of what Peter just talked about is we're working very closely with USDA and Forest Service in that he's exactly right. There's a lot of resources out there, that's trying to tackle this issue from I mean, this issue we take very serious here. And we've we've been working on it for a really long time. I mean, one of the unique aspects of being the nation's largest conservation funder with federal sector, is that we can help step in. And so gaps where conservation funds are needed to address these very concerns. I mean, we fund projects across, all types of landscapes across the United States, from pristine forest in remote areas to small family owned forest properties, to these rural communities, and also the urban, neighborhoods where poverty and other socioeconomic factors has really resulted in a reduced access to green spaces. And, you know, we see this across the country where communities that are in need who support conservation and fully understand the importance of forests and trees, but they just lack the resources to take on those big projects. And and Brendan, you asked, well, what can we do about it? Well, I think that's one of the really cool things about these public private partnerships that where what we try to do at Netflix is bring in that federal money, match it with our private money like AstraZeneca, and we could play a really big role to get the the money in the hands of those communities and those organizations that work there to be able to plant those trees. And and so the partnership we have it easy right now we're actually looking at focusing on urban space in Wilmington, Delaware, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, really helping those local communities to plant trees, open access for these underserved communities. So it's it's been really great to see this movement move along and, try to fill that gap as best we can. That's great. Jessica. Anything. Yeah. So, you know, I think Doctor James said it really, really well when he said that trees are often treated as a nice to have when they should absolutely be treated as a necessity. We need trees not only where people live, but people need access to the beautiful areas that exist. You know, Longwood Gardens, we're one of many, many institutions nationwide that participate in programs like museums for all, which if you're receiving food assistance, you can receive free or discounted rates to it. Visit your local arboretum or garden. Be around nature. See the beauty, get the good vibes. Also, local libraries are another place that you can check out. because oftentimes they have memberships to these cultural institutions that you can check out and come visit again. We really want to make sure that the that nature is for everyone, that everyone can enjoy the beauty of plants and trees and receive the benefits that it provides. Throughout the conversation about the innate appreciation humans have for trees and the importance of humans acting upon that appreciation, I began to wonder about what impact any of us can make on our own. What could we do for these plants that do so much for us? As you all were talking, I was thinking about, you know, we talked about sort of the the larger initiatives happening between, you know, public and private partnership and, you know, and but there's also each of us as individuals. I'm curious, you know, I'll come at it from a maybe a pessimistic view. just, you know, so, you know, I'm one individual. What what can I do? Is there any impact I, as an individual can have? on the the climate crisis are helping to, you know, reduce this inequity around access to trees, you know, just kind of opening it up. What would you say to our listeners on what any one individual can do? I was just thinking when you said that I was like, only you can prevent forest fires. I was thinking, are you walking around with two buckets of water? But, you know, today I think it's instead of you, only you can prevent forest fires. It's more like only you can really protect forests and you know, and and provide they're going to provide us services as we provide them services. So I think as any individual, you have to, acknowledge, recognize, cherish and, protect forests and protect trees. And so that that's one thing I would say is instead of walking around buckets of water, maybe just walk around the forest. Yeah. That's great. Anyone else? I was going to say just kind of every time I get this question about what an individual can do, I think it's kind of wrong to place the onus on the individual here. And really we're talking about policy and what we invest in as a society. Right. And so, you know, the boring things. So vote that right into and to tell your policymakers to invest in this and that this is a priority for you. Right? I think it's shortsighted to think that, you know, we can just hope that, you know, that'll be a line item in for for parks and, and tree, trees in the budget, from year to year. You have to advocate for this work. and certainly there's communities where the policy makers are doing that. but I think there's many other communities that don't have that political power, don't have, you know, there are many reasons why, but I think we need to invest as, yeah, federal government, local government to really, see this as, as a, many ways that many co-benefits for health and the climate. so we need to package this and really, really pitch it to our policymakers. it's a great point. I couldn't personally agree more. I feel like, you know, trees are an investment and they need to be treated as such. And if you take care of them and they'll return dividends because bigger trees means bigger benefits. However, you know, city budgets. What's the first thing that gets cut? Tree care. you know, it's it's something that it needs to be prioritized at a local, federal, national global level. Not only that, but I am one of the biggest tree fans you could ever meet. And I am saying trees are not enough. We need to have the appropriate greening Graham for structure. We need to be working on getting that policy because there's big changes coming and we need to be ready for them, and we need to be future focused and treating trees as an important investment to help address some of those changes is a great thing we can do, but we need to do more. Great. I think it's great to hear the different perspectives on on what we can all do for a small and large scale. I have one. One final question to wrap up, but I did. This conversation is extremely timely because last week I was in a meeting where someone had brought up this, something that they had learned, and I thought the timing was perfect because I'm with three experts on on trees here that I can ask. So I recently learned that trees have genders and that there are characteristics of, you know, male or female trees that make them more appealing in, you know, in certain areas. Or maybe there's even, you know, additional benefits from an environmental standpoint to certain, you know, a male versus female. So I thought, I just have to ask this group here first. I'd hopefully to confirm that there are genders, but then what is what are the characteristics? Are different characteristics of male trees versus female trees, and what are sort of the advantages or why we might plant one or the other? I'm not sure. Maybe. Jessica, do you know, is that, well, different tree species. Some are both male and female. Some are male, some are female. And males can produce pollen, which can really aggravate people's allergies. Also, I can think specifically of the female gingko tree, which creates some very smelly sidewalks. So that's one where people definitely typically try to plant male gingko trees. So it can it can vary based on the species. But you know, there's research out there that shows I need to services that trees provide people and they don't really care because the benefits are so great that that's what they could focus on. So male or female or if it's both just protect and plant and care for trees. I like that answer. Yeah. I you know, I think we look at it again from a for again ecosystem perspective. So diversity is key. you know and I think from it, you know, they even say that trees in a, in a community can actually communicate with each other through the soil or through the roots. And so tracking, moisture levels and droughts and things like that and being able to kind of, account for that and be prepared for it to make themselves more resilient. So when we look at a stand of trees, we're looking for kind of the diversity and age and structure in type. you know, it's funny, even even dead trees play a role in the community of trees because they provide a wealth of, food for, in animals on the bottom. They, they when they fall into streams, they slow down erosion, they slow down the water or they, so there's just the ecosystem of trees is, is I think the, the key is diversity. and, and and that increases its health and its resilience to the I think a lot of the challenges that we're going to see. Great. So we've, you know, each of you in a sense have sort of laid out your arguments, if you will, right, as to why trees are so spectacular, the important role they play from an environmental standpoint, from a health, human health standpoint. but, you know, as we close, I just want to give each of the opportunity to say from your perspective, what is the single most important thing about trees? Or if you want to say like, what is the what is the biggest takeaway that our listeners should have from from hearing, you know, this podcast episode? Doctor James, I'll start with you. All right. Yeah. So great. I get to go first. This is this is a tricky one. but I was you know, when I think about this, I think what one thing can improve mental health, increase our focus, improve cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer's, cancer risk, you know, help us live longer, can help us address health disparities while also cooling our environment, sequestering carbon, helping us face the climate crisis head on. Right? This one intervention can benefit so many things at once, has so many upsides. Right. and I think we just have to recognize that, you know, maybe we need to quantify that. We need to monetize that, you name it, prioritize it. Right. I think that's the thing for me is when you study trees, you see that there are so many different benefits. Can we bring that all together and kind of encapsulate those benefits, and, and communicate that to the public and to policymakers? I think that would that's just I know that's a cop out answer because it's not a single thing. It's all these things together. Right. And and that's what makes them so amazing, so spectacular. How about you, doctor Terrence Goff exactly. Is doctor a doctor? James said incredible incredible benefits. So I think that instead of saying one important thing about trees, I want to say one important message that we all need to hear and that is that people need trees, but trees absolutely need people. We need to be planting the right trees in the right place, giving it the right care. We need to acknowledge that there are health care essential and that they should be treated as such. So even if you can't plan to tree, there's opportunities. You can adopt your local tree and your community. You know, make sure you're watering it when it's drought time during the summer. What are your trees? Make sure it's being mulched and you know, a lot of people mulch incorrectly. So, you know, go to the Morton Arboretum website. They have some great resources on how to mulch a tree and protected and enjoy it and support your local garden as well. I have to throw that out. I truly believe that. Yeah, that's great. How about you, Doctor Bamford? Yeah, I mean, I would say it's hard to say a single rate. but you know, from a practical standpoint, I would say the single most important thing for our listeners to take away is the role that trees are going to play in helping us build a better future. you know, forests help stabilize the climate. They regulate ecosystems, they protect biodiversity. They play an integral part in the carbon cycle, as we heard. They support livelihoods. They make us feel better. and they can help drive sustainable growth. they they are part of our economy. you know, so I just think the tree trees are going to be an integral part of our future, and we have to take care of them. according to the U.S. Forest Service, there's currently about 300 billion trees in the United States. Now, if you compare that to the US population, which is about 300 million, that is a thousand trees per person. So as I said earlier, we're going to be doctors for forests. We got a lot of work to do. You guys think so? And I think we're all up for the challenge. And I think that's the key is we we got to protect our trees. and we're up for the challenge. That's a that's a great a great point to end on. Doctor James. Doctor Turner Skoff. Doctor Bamford, I'd like to thank each of you for your incredible insights in your time today. Really, really fascinating conversation. So thank you again. Thank you very much. That was great. Thank you. Thanks so much. Trees provide so much for us. From cleaning the air we breathe to providing us with shade on the hot sunny day. But it's easy for us to forget how much trees give. Hopefully, today's episode planted a seed of understanding that will continue to grow into a deeper appreciation for just how spectacular the science of trees really is. Thanks again for joining us on. That's understandable. For more information about today's episode and guest, be sure to check the show notes. Until next time. Be well. Be healthy. Be understanding.