Igniting the Industry: Jeff Keane’s Journey as Founder of Coolfire Studios #106

On this week's episode, host Pete Salsich III sits down with his longtime friend and the founder and CEO of Coolfire Studios, Jeff Keane. Together, they delve into Jeff's remarkable journey of over 20 years in the dynamic world of video production and entertainment. From groundbreaking advertising ventures to captivating reality TV, from engaging docu-series to cutting-edge digital experiences, Jeff and Coolfire have been ahead of the curve, all while cultivating a powerful creative presence right here in the heartland.

Original Theme Song composed by Brent Johnson of Coolfire Studios.
Podcast sponsored by Capes Sokol.

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Transcript

00;00;00;02 - 00;00;25;09
Unknown
The Screen Lawyer Podcast is brought to you by Cape Sokol, Attorneys at Law. 

00;00;00;03 - 00;00;26;08
Unknown
Welcome. On this week's episode of The Screen Lawyer Podcast, I am joined by Jeff Keane, founder, CEO of Coolfire Studios a St Louis Local Production Company. But worldwide in its reach. It's going to be awesome. Jeff, you ready? I'm ready. All right, let's do this. 

00;00;27;12 - 00;00;49;27
Unknown
Welcome to The Screen Lawyer Podcast. The intersection of the entertainment world, intellectual property law and emerging technology where we discuss the legal and business issues surrounding any type of content that ends up on your screens. I'm your host, Pete Salsich, The Screen Lawyer.

Hey there. Welcome to The Screen Lawyer podcast. I'm Pete Salsich, The Screen Lawyer.

00;00;26;14 - 00;00;44;23
Unknown
And my guest today is my long-time friend, the founder and CEO of Coolfire Studios here in Saint Louis, Jeff Keane. Jeff, welcome. Thanks, Pete. Happy to be here. I'm glad you're here. Yeah, likewise. Likewise. You look sharp, as always. Thank you. Thank you. I’m never able to actually try from time to time to pull off that, you know, perfectly.

00;00;44;23 - 00;01;01;12
Unknown
Just sort of looks like a beard. Started growing, being too many bags. So I stick with the logo. I noticed the other day that almost every male at Coolfire has a beard. And I thought, wouldn't it be funny if on some Friday we all walk in and we've all shaved or. Yeah, I think that would freak people.

00;01;01;12 - 00;01;28;28
Unknown
And there's you guys do a Coolfire. I'm sure somebody would have captured it all on film in the next reel. Yes, we do tend to play with facial hair sometimes, and the famous mustache video of 2008. Yes. Oh, my gosh. So this is going to be great. I'm so excited to have Jeff here. So, you know, there's a reason people who watch this podcast, listen to this podcast, know me, know that I go by the screen earlier and know that I work in this area of production, legal and all things getting on a screen.

00;01;28;28 - 00;01;48;20
Unknown
But it all started with Jeff, right? You remember? Yeah. I mean, you said that the other day, and I guess I didn't really realize that that was the case. But I guess in a sense it's I mean, I had done I had done a little work in the in and around the industry. But when we had started back in 2009, I think early 2010.

00;01;48;20 - 00;02;06;27
Unknown
Yeah, you were we knew each other. We'd done a little bit of work together, but I was, you know, had two guys in a behind the restaurant was my law firm at the time, Brickhouse Law Group. And you came over one day. We sat in a little shared conference space that we had, and you said, I think I want to get into TV.

00;02;06;29 - 00;02;26;11
Unknown
I think I want to do these things called apps, you know, and maybe start some companies. And that's where it all started. Yeah, it is 2010, we spun off two new companies from what was then called Fire Media, which was basically a commercial production company, and we decided we wanted to stick our toe in the water a little bit in the world of reality television.

00;02;26;11 - 00;02;44;06
Unknown
And in order to do that, we were going to spin off a separate company and there were a lot of questions around how to set up that company. And of course, all the legalities around copyrights and trademarks and all that kind of stuff. So and then at the same time, we spun off a software company that was originally making mobile apps for the military.

00;02;44;09 - 00;03;02;15
Unknown
It has since evolved into something else. But yeah, we were spinning off to companies and needed a lot of legal advice in order to set those things up correctly and make sure that we weren't getting ourselves into trouble. Yeah, it was. And it was the most fun. I mean, I quickly realized over the over a couple of years period of time, it was way more fun than any other kind of legal work at it.

00;03;02;15 - 00;03;21;21
Unknown
I just I hadn't you know, I had done I in litigation in the entertainment and IP world, so I knew my way around it. But getting a chance to work with a startup company and help build, I remember sitting in, in conferences with you guys and you're like, I think we want to do this. And my job was to figure out, okay, what would that look like?

00;03;21;21 - 00;03;46;25
Unknown
Yeah, these do we need to own a company? Do we need to spend something on right, You need a license or whatever. And it was the most enjoyable brain expanding time in my career and I've never looked back. Yeah. And in those early days, we weren't just making TV shows. We were licensing products through those TV shows. So there were a lot of things to consider in terms of how we set things up and royalties and licensing and copyrights and trademarks and all that kind of stuff.

00;03;46;28 - 00;04;21;19
Unknown
So yeah, that was very new territory for us as a commercial production company. We really haven't dealt with a lot of those things in the past, so we knew we needed a good lawyer now. Yeah, well, and I and you found me, so that's what you got. And I turned out to learn this stuff with you guys. Yeah, but you guys started so to take us back just a little bit to Coolfire media before you came out of the really sort of the I don't know if it's really the end, but sort of a transition phase from the big advertising agency where yeah, where an agency might have two or 300 employees and had

00;04;21;19 - 00;04;38;12
Unknown
all of these departments in-house. Yeah. And then they started spinning out take us kind of through coming out of that into cool financial. Well, I really started at Anheuser-Busch, so I worked at Busch Creative Services, which was sort of their in-house creative department, and they did a lot of different things. And that's where I learned the world of video production.

00;04;38;12 - 00;04;56;03
Unknown
I did some live event production as well, but video production is what I learned at Busch Creative and at the time, you know, Anheuser-Busch was the advertising and media giant that it was. And they spent lots and lots of money on video and marketing and advertising. And that's when they were more than just a beer company. They had they have the Saint Louis Cardinals.

00;04;56;03 - 00;05;13;07
Unknown
They had eagle snacks, they had SeaWorld. So they were in a lot of different things. And we as Busch Creative got to do work for all of those companies, which was a lot of fun. Busch Creative also had outside clients. They didn't just service haphazardly. Busch So we worked with Volkswagen of American Ford, Coca-Cola, you know, a lot of big companies.

00;05;13;07 - 00;05;33;21
Unknown
So it was a great place to start my career. There were a lot of really talented people there, and some of those people were very kind to me and took me under their wing and taught me sort of the world of video production. And I guess I was a pretty good student. I started there as a production assistant, and after about four years I'd worked my way up to a producer and I was getting to produce some pretty cool things.

00;05;33;21 - 00;05;50;18
Unknown
So that's where I started. And so yeah, that was the world of big media, big advertising and, you know, a lot of dollars being spent on that thing. So it's a great place to start. And then I left and freelanced for a while and bounced around a few different places and then ultimately decided to start Coolfire in 2002.

00;05;50;25 - 00;06;09;04
Unknown
Yeah. And some of the people that you started with in 2002 are still with the company. Yeah, they are actually. Some of those people even predate the company that I worked at right before. Cool. Oh. Ah, Patrick Vaughn was a guy who's still with us at Coolfire today that I hired at my previous job to Coolfire.

00;06;09;07 - 00;06;28;13
Unknown
I hired him right out of college. He went to the Savannah School of Art and Design as a young kid about to graduate. He sent us a demo reel and I was like, Wow, this kid's got some talent. And we hired him and he's still there today. But yeah, several other people came on really right after we started Coolfire the very early days and are still there.

00;06;28;16 - 00;06;45;06
Unknown
Guys like Dave Johnson and then Kevin Johnson and Brant Johnson, the Johnson Johnson Trio, none of whom are related, correct? No, and they're not related. But yeah, we've got a lot of folks that are long timers. I think it's been a fun ride for all of us. A lot of ups and downs, but mostly good time, I think.

00;06;45;09 - 00;07;04;18
Unknown
I mean, I think that's kind of remarkable, frankly, 20 years now into 21 years. Yeah, exactly. And to think about that, you know, in a world that is very fluid, often in the work force, right. From the crew and then you talked about starting as a pay and working where that's sort of how the world works, right?

00;07;04;18 - 00;07;28;15
Unknown
Yeah, well, it's the way it used to work, at least. Right. Right, exactly. I think it still does to a certain I mean, there's a version of that show, guys still shape. By the way, I need to while we're before we leave the topic of the Johnson Trio, I need to give a shout out to Brant Johnson. If you all like the music here, our theme music on the screen, on your podcast, and Brant Johnson, composer, brilliant musician, wonderful guy, answered my request.

00;07;28;16 - 00;07;48;01
Unknown
Hey, can you help? Composed some music for this podcast and he did So if you like it, be sure and check out Brent's work. He's awesome. Yep, he is amazing. That's really cool. So. All right, so cool. Far media grows into the spins off the new company, and then eventually you guys merge back two of the three companies right into what's known as Coolfire studios.

00;07;48;03 - 00;08;15;04
Unknown
Correct. And that was taking place kind of at a point in the world where lines were getting blurred. Yes. Of where money was coming. Yeah, right. So my memory and I was working with you by then. Is that where in the reality TV world, the money always flowed from There was one direction as well, right? We would get the rights to a subject of an interesting family that would make good TV for funny business or whatever the subject was, and then you'd pitch it.

00;08;15;04 - 00;08;36;20
Unknown
And then if a network was interested, they would buy it, correct? They would provide the entire budget. Yeah, You would manage that budget to the entire physical production and then they would deliver it now and hopefully we'd make some money else. Yeah, yeah. Hopefully. Especially if you ever get a second season right. And then there was the still cool family media was doing the sort of commercials and stuff for agencies, right?

00;08;36;21 - 00;08;54;17
Unknown
Yeah. And that was one flow. Also, the banks got the money from the brand. Yep. And then all that started the changes, everything went on digital. Yeah, it really did. I mean, there was a time where it made sense to have that cool for the originals, which was our TV company, separate from our media, which was our commercial production company.

00;08;54;17 - 00;09;23;17
Unknown
But as time went on, the lines between those things really started to blur. And I think what sort of fell in between those two things was branded content, right? And digital content. And all of a sudden all the rules are changing of what does marketing and advertising look like? What does storytelling look like? Those two things kind of merged together in branded content, which we got big into because we had the experience working with brands and we had the experience telling longer form stories.

00;09;23;20 - 00;09;40;25
Unknown
So it was a very natural fit for us to get into the world of branded content. And so once that started happening, we realized all of the lines were blurred, all the walls were down, all the silos were gone. So we took cool fire originals and cool for our media and merged them back into one company, which is now, yeah, Coolfire Studios.

00;09;40;25 - 00;10;06;21
Unknown
I remember that it's first time ever drafted merger documents. It's the that was one of the coolest thing for me is while you guys were learning how these new revenue streams, new distribution platforms, how that world works and navigating it professionally because of the skill that you had. I was learning how those structures worked from a legal structure, you know, and from an ownership structure and from a workforce structure and that sort of thing.

00;10;06;21 - 00;10;24;09
Unknown
So it was a really it was a really cool time. It was. It was. And then now you've evolved even more. I mean, what do you think is sort of the mix more now? Is it more, more of the television or is that or is it is it divided up across different things? It's still all of those things.

00;10;24;09 - 00;10;47;10
Unknown
But I would say the area where we're growing the most is video content for social channels. So, you know, a number of years ago, I think every major brand realized they've got these channels. You got to put something out there. Yeah. So that's like the companies Facebook page. Yeah, Facebook, YouTube, you know, Instagram, Tik Tok now, Right. They've got these channels.

00;10;47;10 - 00;11;04;02
Unknown
What am I going to put out there? You know, how are we going to program those channels They're on all the time. We're saying something to our customers. What are we saying? Right. And then also, you know, you start to realize that video content is the thing. If anything's going to cut through, yeah, it's going to be good video content.

00;11;04;02 - 00;11;25;18
Unknown
So now I need video content for these channels. And so we started making video content for brands channels, and then we realized they really needed kind of some help with an overarching strategy of how to do that. So it wasn't just make them some content and throw it out there, it's put some strategy behind it, make the good content right, and then make sure that content is being delivered to the right order.

00;11;25;19 - 00;11;45;22
Unknown
Right, Right. So that's sort of the digital engagement portion of it. Yeah, that's the part of our company now that I think is probably growing the fastest, although again, we're still doing all this other stuff that we've done. And then you get, as you said, I mean, and this is something I always you guys always talk about storytelling and I, you know, at first I thought, oh, well, that's just how they talk about it.

00;11;45;22 - 00;12;08;20
Unknown
But in a way, it's really very, very true. Right? Whether you're a brand and it it comes back, the more the longer I practice, the more I realize a contract is a is telling a story. I teach a class, it's in the shoe and I am drafting IP contracts. And I basically say you have to tell a story that someone who's not a lawyer can read from start to finish and know what's supposed to happen.

00;12;08;20 - 00;12;38;28
Unknown
Yeah, and I learned that lesson from you guys. If the if the story doesn't make sense, then something's wrong. And it's not going to be whatever, whatever your purpose is. And that's something that you guys do no matter what. PUT Yeah, it's right content right? Audience And yeah, you got to tell a good story. Whether it's a 32nd TV spot or a half hour or hour long episodic TV show or a documentary or a feature film, it doesn't matter what it is, you got to tell a compelling story that's going to grab somebody and make them feel something or do something or be something that I totally agree.

00;12;38;28 - 00;13;01;26
Unknown
So I'm going to I didn't prep you for this question, but I'm curious, you know, what is the one? Is there one product out in the world that you are most proud of in life in it? And I want to add some other questions going forward, but I'm just curious, the things that we've done it. Yeah, exactly. You said things are cool for I put out there they like that's if I stopped today, I would be able to point to that and say that's I'm really proud we did that.

00;13;01;29 - 00;13;19;24
Unknown
Yeah, there's probably a few things. I mean, we've done so much over 21 years and you know how it is. Some of it's really great work that you're proud of and some of it is just work that pays the bills, right? Which is fine. That's what it's still. And your and even the work to pay the bills is still it's still really good work.

00;13;19;24 - 00;13;38;18
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, we put our heart and soul into everything that we do. Yeah. There's a few things. I think the first TV show that we sold was a really big deal. I mean, it was a monumental moment of cool fire where these guys in St Louis in the middle of the country that have no pedigree in producing reality TV shows for major cable networks.

00;13;38;18 - 00;13;56;18
Unknown
And a lot of people, I think, probably believed that we couldn't do that or we had no business doing that. But we really put our minds to it. We thought we had some good ideas. We thought we had some things about our company that were different in terms of our Midwestern location and our sentiment about storytelling and the characters that we could find kind of backyard.

00;13;56;19 - 00;14;13;01
Unknown
And you guys were not interested in the let's make these people look horrific. No, no, that real sensational stuff was not something that we were after. We wanted to tell really authentic stories from the heartland, and that's what we did. And so we found some great characters and we sold a couple of shows right out of the gate.

00;14;13;01 - 00;14;29;25
Unknown
We sold fast and loud, and we said, Welcome to Sweetie Pies. Those were our first two. And we took that. Those shows had great runs. They were both really big hit shows and went on for years and over 100 episodes each. But we really took the attitude of We are going to do whatever it takes to sell that first show, right?

00;14;30;00 - 00;14;54;09
Unknown
Because once we sell the first one, the next year it's going to be easier and easier and easier. So we really buckle down and we paid our dues and we partnered up with the right people in order to make things happen. We had good agents representing us and a good lawyer representing us, and we sold a couple of shows and that was a really proud moment, I think, for all of us to see a TV show on Discovery Channel or a TV show on the Oprah Winfrey Network.

00;14;54;11 - 00;15;13;11
Unknown
And you know, it's got your name in the credits. It's got cool fire at the end. That was a really big deal and something that yeah, that I'm really proud of. Absolutely. But there've been a few other things. You know, we did that docu series for Saint Louis Children's Hospital. Yeah. Yeah. In Saint Louis. And I think it's some of the best frontline for Frontline, for Hope, some of the best work that we've ever done.

00;15;13;11 - 00;15;33;00
Unknown
Just amazing, heart wrenching stories of patients and doctors and nurses and families and, you know, credit to the hospital. They really gave us free reign to tell stories. And some of those stories, you didn't know how they were going to turn out. You didn't know if they were going to be happy endings or sad endings. And we had a little bit of both.

00;15;33;00 - 00;15;53;08
Unknown
But even through the sad stuff, you realized how much those doctors and nurses cared about their patients and the high level of care that they gave to people in some of their darkest times. And it was just a really cool show and we want a few Emmys for it. So yeah, that's something that I'm proud of, too. Oh, that's I think that's I And you did a similar show in Kansas City.

00;15;53;08 - 00;16;10;03
Unknown
In the city, Yeah. Yeah. Children's Hospital in Kansas City. We did the same thing. Yeah, that one went three seasons and again won some Emmy Awards for that. So, yeah, those are really, you know, fun and very poignant stories to tell. You know, you don't get to do that kind of thing everyday. So that's true. And really, really powerful.

00;16;10;03 - 00;16;31;11
Unknown
And I one thing I remember with both of those was the local movie star angle. Yeah. Yeah. So in Saint Louis, it's everybody's favorite son. Well, the first season Saint Louis was Joe Buck as our voice, and we got Jon Hamm to do a subsequent season. And then in, say, in Kansas City, we got Paul Rudd to voice the episode.

00;16;31;11 - 00;16;48;09
Unknown
So yeah, that was a lot of fun. And for me, I mean, I remember thinking to myself, Wow, I just drafted a contract with Paul Rudd's man. That's pretty cool. I thought, you know, that's a I didn't meet him. Yeah, he wouldn't know me, but I typed his name, spelled it right in the contract. So that's good.

00;16;48;12 - 00;17;07;26
Unknown
Yeah. And then recently one thing that we've worked on recently is a little docu-series for the new soccer team. It's called City Rising. It's on YouTube and documentary storytelling. Three parts of just sort of the formation of the team and the philosophy of the team and the early days of launching that brand and that franchise. And I think it's some of the best storytelling we've ever done.

00;17;07;26 - 00;17;33;03
Unknown
I mean, just beautifully shot, beautifully edited, really well and produced something. I think it's really cool, really, for people. If you have not seen this yet, check it out. And where can they find that on YouTube? Just type in City Rising, City Rising, you'll find three episodes. Yeah. And I mean I've watched it obviously. And what strikes me is how well it is not just a story of the of a team, you know, because those happen right.

00;17;33;04 - 00;17;52;11
Unknown
It's a new business, it's the team, whatever. But it's insane if you know Saint Louis and if you know, soccer in Saint Louis. And if you watch the MLS and seen how this team has burst on the scene, it's really capturing a city. Yeah. I mean, the name is the name of the team, but it's also capturing how the city rises up.

00;17;52;11 - 00;18;12;24
Unknown
And I know there's a lot of excitement about what that can do for the larger. Yeah, absolutely. And that's cool that you guys are involved in that. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. So this is really cool. Another, another thing that I think is interesting that you can speak to is, you know, production companies and we work with a lot of creative companies that are just getting started, right?

00;18;12;24 - 00;18;38;21
Unknown
And they, they come together. Maybe they come together with people who like you, you were a Bush creative and then you did this and you finally realize I probably could put a team together and do it ourselves. And then and so that's a very common way that companies get started in any industry and certainly in this industry. But you've now seen over a 20 year period, you've seen the company grow, you've hired a bunch of people, you've expanded, you've had to contrast, you've dealt with networks within a business.

00;18;38;21 - 00;19;01;25
Unknown
What was that like? I mean, man, oh man, boy, I mean, the ups and downs are challenging. Sometimes you're, you know, sometimes in the evolution of a company over 21 years, you sometimes you make mistakes. You got to recover from those mistakes. And sometimes things just happen to you that are completely and totally out there. Right. That are a real punch in the gut.

00;19;01;25 - 00;19;23;03
Unknown
And we've had a a couple of major cable networks that we worked with that we had shows on the air with that have just one day gone out of business, you know, And when they went out of business, you'll lose a TV show, right? And a TV show is potentially millions of dollars worth of revenue a year. And you've and you probably staffed up, really staffed up around it.

00;19;23;03 - 00;19;42;05
Unknown
You've budgeted for that. You know, you forecast with that in the budget and then all of a sudden, in the blink of an eye, it's gone. And, you know, no apologies, no no notice, no thank you notes later. It's just it's just gone. And you have to kind of pick up the pieces and go on from there. Yeah.

00;19;42;07 - 00;20;01;27
Unknown
So the TV world is tough. I mean, it's really been an up and down ride for us. We've had years where we've sold multiple TV shows and we've had years where we didn't sell any TV shows, but we keep at it because I think it's an important part of our business and you know, it's a creative part of our business and, you know, we like telling those long forms.

00;20;01;27 - 00;20;23;07
Unknown
Yeah. So yeah. And you've done some full documentary films, right? We have, yeah. We did a documentary called Magic in the Mountains. Yeah. That's about the story of the 1960 Winter Olympics. And Walt Disney's involvement in that. That's a real fun one. D.J. David Johnson really headed that out. Yeah, and executive produced that. And it turned out.

00;20;23;11 - 00;20;43;26
Unknown
It's really cool. So it's kind of amazing when you watch it and you realize that many of the things that we just fully expect, if you turn on the Olympics on TV, it's going to have this kind of an opening ceremony. It's going to have pageantry, it's going to have all medal ceremonies. Right. All of that was pretty much Disney and his team's idea, right, to make this?

00;20;43;27 - 00;20;59;20
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. They hired him because it was the first Olympics that was going to be widely televised. And they want to make sure it looked good on television. So they brought him in to kind of be the pageantry director. And he came up with all these great ideas of things that would look really good on TV. And like you said, a lot of those things still exist today.

00;20;59;20 - 00;21;24;19
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. Now that's really cool. And that's magic in the mountains. You can find that one out there in the world too, right? Yeah, I think probably Amazon Prime and iTunes and different places like that. That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, that's a cool project. Yeah. So. Well, this is been great. One of the one of the things that I do on this podcast is I like to ask my guests and I like to ask our listeners and subscribers and viewers or wherever you are, what's on your screen.

00;21;24;21 - 00;21;48;15
Unknown
And I tell you, I got to this question because and I've said this before when I got started in this, when I really got fully into this project and sort of thinking, well, what's the name? Where does The Screen Lawyer come up with come from? And it was because you guys remember, I remember an early Coolfire slogan, We make things for screen.

00;21;48;17 - 00;22;02;11
Unknown
Yeah. And I'm like, Wait, I was the lawyer for all that stuff. I guess it was great. Yeah, I guess you are. And it's been really fun to see in you the types of screens that you guys live on has evolved greatly, right? It has. I mean, you can be found on any kind of. Yeah, almost anywhere. Yeah.

00;22;02;11 - 00;22;20;07
Unknown
I mean, a lot of what we're making is definitely consumed on cell phones. And of course, that wasn't the case, you know, even ten years ago probably. So, yeah, it's changed a lot. But now we make content for all screens of all shapes and sizes, and that's kind of fun. Yeah, it definitely is. So this is now my question.

00;22;20;07 - 00;22;36;01
Unknown
Yeah, you have a cell phone, you carry a screen in your hand. I do. You have a screen in your office wall? You have a screen at home? Yeah. Go to see things on screens. What's on your screen right now? What sort of capturing your Well, when you when you say what's on your screen, I think of the things that we're working on.

00;22;36;06 - 00;22;53;04
Unknown
Great. Yeah. Because there's something you can talk about. Of course, I watch TV and consume a lot of TV, too, But I think about what we're working on and we're working on some pretty cool things. We recently sold a TV show to Roku. Awesome. I can't say too much about it yet because we're in pre-production still and they like to be the ones to get to make those big announcements.

00;22;53;07 - 00;23;14;13
Unknown
But it's a really fun show. It's in the home space and we're just about to go into pre-production on that and that'll be a six episode series on Roku sometime either later this year or early, early next year. So that's very exciting. That's a big project for us and I think it's going to be a really cool one.

00;23;14;15 - 00;23;32;17
Unknown
Working with a couple of brands. We've got a brand again that I sorry, I can't mention. I understand I'm a big consumer brand here in Saint Louis and we're doing a digital series. It's kind of a travel show that's going to be really fun and really cool. Got some good talent for that. We're going to get to go out to some different cities and tell some fun stories.

00;23;32;19 - 00;23;53;03
Unknown
Well, I'm glad to know the lessons that I imparted in your head years ago about confidentiality you have resonated. I've learned my lesson there. I've gotten in trouble a few times on that one. So, yeah, unfortunately we got to be careful about. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's an interesting world because I can recall at certain on certain projects the whole concept of publicity and everybody is a publicist, right?

00;23;53;03 - 00;24;13;09
Unknown
Yeah. I mean I'm doing right now. Right. And so we're always, you know, so, so when the subject of your show has a public personality and the network that's interested, you know, like you just said, they want to control the launch. They want to control be the sometimes they want to be the very first ones to introduce the talent to the world.

00;24;13;09 - 00;24;29;01
Unknown
Yeah, that's the most important thing. They want to be the first. They want to be the one that makes the main announcement. And usually after they've made the first big announcement, then we have some latitude to put things on our own. And sometimes you have to tell the subject, You can't post about this. Don't say a word. Yeah, exactly.

00;24;29;01 - 00;24;48;21
Unknown
Yeah, A We're all in big trouble, right? Exactly. No, that's that's awesome. Well, I'm excited about it. Yeah. Anything that you're watching right now that is completely unrelated to work, but it's just captured your imagination. You know, somebody just asked me this the other day, and the answer really, unfortunately, is no. I do watch a lot of things, but I'm struggling right now.

00;24;48;21 - 00;25;05;17
Unknown
Right. I think the last really good thing that I watched was the last season of Succession, which I just I see. Don't say anything. I haven't started that one. You know, there's like larger stuff. And but to me, that's the last really good thing that I watched. I'm looking for something. Have you seen The Diplomat? I have seen the promo, but I haven't.

00;25;05;18 - 00;25;22;28
Unknown
It's actually really just I highly recommend it. Keri Russell. Keri Russell Yeah. Rufus All they are, they are. It's, it's really well done. It takes time to build things come back in the. Yeah. It's a, it's really, I will check the tally. Does it have any shades of like the Americans or do you know obviously she was in there.

00;25;22;28 - 00;25;39;25
Unknown
Yeah. It evokes some of the same feelings because you, you, you learn over time you just get thrown in at the start and something's happening and you have to learn slowly what their motivations are and how it happens. It's really well done. So that's my I'll that's what's on my screen right now. Actually, it's not because we just finished it.

00;25;39;25 - 00;25;57;05
Unknown
So now we're searching for something else. All right, I'll. Well, that's cool. Hey, listen, thank you so much. You're happy to be here. It's good to catch you. This is great. Cool. Varsities. You guys are a success story, I think, right? I mean, I'd like to think so. Yeah, absolutely. And you've got one of the things that I love about you, too.

00;25;57;05 - 00;26;19;02
Unknown
And this is sort of where I wanted to wind up. If people are getting into the business, you know, somebody's getting started. And I work for a lot of people that are that are in that phase. Right. Any advice for somebody? You know, I mean, because I know over the life of of Cool Fire, you have some people that are in pretty severe senior roles now.

00;26;19;02 - 00;26;44;02
Unknown
Very, very important roles who started as interns. Yeah. And then were production assistants and worked their way up. Yeah. So what advice would you give to somebody who's getting started? Boy, I think it's a competitive business. There's a limited number of jobs. A lot of people want them. And I always tell the young people, You just got to work really hard and, you know, you got to find a way to get your foot in the door somewhere and then you make yourself indispensable.

00;26;44;02 - 00;27;03;03
Unknown
I mean, I think a lot of the people that work at Cool Fire came in at very low levels or interns or and, you know, at some point they just became so indispensable that we have to keep promoting them and keep giving them more responsibility. So, you know, get your foot in the door somewhere. Work really hard, make yourself indispensable and do the little things right.

00;27;03;09 - 00;27;20;03
Unknown
If you do the little things right, then, yeah, I'll give you more and more response. And sometimes you have to say yes to the question that gets asked actually that day that you know the answer is no, but I'm going to say yes anyway and figure it out. Fake it till you make it a term. Sure. I mean, we've done that as a company and I think as individuals, we've all probably Oh, that's what I'm doing right now.

00;27;20;04 - 00;27;39;23
Unknown
Hey, you know, you're very early in the podcast realm, hopefully for a long run, learning as we go. Yeah, well, it's been fantastic. Thanks a lot. Thanks again. Appreciate having you. It's great having you in our little Screen Lawyer podcast studio, especially since you are an environment with really cool big studio. Sometimes we do. All right. Yeah. Pretty good.

00;27;39;25 - 00;28;07;12
Unknown
All right. Excellent. Well, thanks very much. Hey, everybody, check this episode out of the screen on our podcast and find us on wherever you get your podcast. Download. Like subscribe if you're watching on YouTube, hit that button down there. I'm learning to say that, Hey, everybody, find us wherever you get your podcast, the screen on your podcast, we drop every other Wednesday and you can also check us out on our YouTube @TheScreenLawyer, where these episodes are also posted.

00;28;07;12 - 00;28;26;03
Unknown
And if you're watching there, subscribe and like and share and tell the world, because we'd love to hear what's on your screen. Talk to you soon. 

You've been listening to The Screen Lawyer Podcast with your host Pete, Salsich - The Screen Lawyer.
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