The American Dream Made Reality (with Jihane Ait Samo)

Episode 06: If life happens to you by chance, you’re doing something wrong.

That’s how Jihane Ait Samo operates. This Moroccan native wasted no time in taking action to make her dreams a reality. The second she knew she wanted to live in America, she became hyper-fixated on making the move at the first opportunity. Fast forward to the present and you’ll find Jihane preparing to move to Dallas with her husband while completing her PhD and continually growing her online presence. Tune in to hear Hamza and Jihane discuss her journey throughout the U.S., dating as an immigrant, finding passion in life, and much more.

If you enjoyed the episode, be sure to subscribe for more inspiring and thought-provoking conversations.
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For all inquiries, please email: zahra@hamzainvests.com
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Connect with Jihane:

tiktok.com/@dr.jihane

instagram.com/dr.jihanesamo
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Transcript

[00:00:00] It's the Immigrant Unfiltered Podcast with Hamza. Hey guys, welcome back to the Immigrant Unfiltered Podcast. This is your host Hamza. Today we have a wonderful guest with us. Her name is Jihan et Sumo. Did I get that right? Ate samo Ed Samo. Sorry about that. Thank you. So Jihan, ed Samo, uh, is also a, uh, uh, a colleague, I guess in, in the sense that she's also an immigrant who immigrated herself, right?

Is that right? I did, yeah. And we're gonna, we're gonna go into her story, uh, and we're gonna talk about the struggles and the successes that she saw here coming to the us. Um, um, being, you know, the person that, she's the wonderful person that she's, I got to speak to her briefly before we air this show. Um, so I guess all the aha moments are gonna be caught live in front of you guys, and we're gonna really get to know.

Uh, in this episode. So Jihan, first question I I like to ask everyone is who is the person behind the name? So if you were to like, paint a picture, uh, you know, uh, make a [00:01:00] sculpture, sing a song, uh, you know, portray an animal, what would that look like? Uh, so who is jihan? Um, I would say the best way to describe myself is resilient.

Um, I've always been a visionary. I've always known what I wanted in life and even though I did not know where the future would hold for me, I always wanted to take that step to push forward. Um, and I think that's why I'm an immigrant because um, a lot of people here are immigrant and they think we don't have anything back home and we ride camels or we don't have any technology, but we actually do.

We have great lives, but we, uh, push ourselves for more. And, uh, I would say that that's the best to describe me. So resilience, very, uh, I think a very strong mindset that is cuz you know, a lot of people will use essentially the word resilient and then at some point, especially people who are non-immigrants mm-hmm.[00:02:00] 

Will use the word resilient and, you know, Uh, it, I think it, it speaks a different volume than it does to immigrants. I think we operate at maybe just resilient for us means, means something completely different. Right. It's like all in Yes. Uh, no time for anything else. Yes. This is kind of where, uh, you know, things happen for us, so.

Okay. Uh, you brought up something really interesting, which is people think, uh, that we have camels back home. Yes. But it's funny you say that because a lot of my friends are actually now moving back home to Saudi, to Dubai, to parts of the Middle East, uh, because those places are booming and they seem to be the next, uh, thing that is going to be the uproar in the world.

And that's kind of where the That's so true. That's kind of where the world is going, so that's so crazy. Also the social life is just unmatched, right? Correct. Yes. The social life. Yeah. So I moved here from Dubai in 2013 and the f until today. The, the social life is unmatched. You, you cannot replicate the social life that you have back home to the life that you have here.

I know. It's just so different for you to be successful here, you really cannot have like a healthy social [00:03:00] life. There's no balance. There's really no balance. And so what does that look like? What does that entail? So first let's, let's, before we get into, uh, the work-life balance mm-hmm. Let's talk about you Freeamerica.

Uh, so when did you move, how did that happen? What was the opportunity? What was missing? That made you think about, okay, you know what, I'm gonna do this. And are you, were you an American citizen prior to, or no. Okay. Let's talk about that. That's interesting. Okay. Um, where do you want me to start when I was a child?

No, I mean, start, start, start. I would say start, you know, America is the future and I, you've kind of consciously made that decision and now you wanna, you know, explore. Okay. So my dream to come to America started when I was really, really young. I was about five years old. My old, my oldest uncle came, immigrated first to the US and, uh, he studied engineering and he came back home and every single time he would come home, he would bring me this amazing dresses that are unmatched.

And I [00:04:00] was like, oh my gosh, look at the sense of fashion. Look at this beautiful gift that I keep giving that he keeps giving me. Right? And I really just was curious about what America is about. So when I was about 11. I started watching movies, all the American movies, the Mean Girls and, and I would sit in front of the mirror and just like try to match the, the way that they speak the American English.

And then I was like, okay, as soon as I finished, this is like the next move. As soon as I finished high school, it's the big like break. I'm, that's my next move. Then I became a teenager and like any Arabic father, my dad was a little bit more con, not controlling, but I would say like he just cared so much about me and my wellbeing and it was like very hard to like carve my own paths because of that.

So I was like, okay, I'm gonna ask him what that I need to do for me to gain a little bit of authority, [00:05:00] to be able to like pursue the life that I. And he said, you have to get the best grade. If you're not on top of that chart, you're not gonna go to America. And I was like, okay, is that all? Um, so here goes started the, the like obsessive studying, just obsessive studying over and over.

I I didn't have like a normal teenage years. I just wanted to be the best, get that degree so I could be able to move to the next step. And I did it. I did it. We got the call at like 5:00 AM They were like, oh, you, your daughter got the best grade. They just got posted and it was like tears. And I was freaking out like, how am I gonna pursue this?

Like, I'm gonna go and be by myself. And yeah, the, my dad couldn't understand that that was about to happen cuz I'm an only child and the only girl, how am I, um, how am I going to like move across the [00:06:00] country? But he followed through with his promise and, and, and so somehow you made it. So how did you come here?

What was the like, what the path I, I applied to, I always wanted to be a doctor, so, um, I decided that I didn't wanna do pre-med, just regular pre-med. So I was looking into some form of engineering that would allow me to be a medical doctor afterwards. And we came, I came across biomedical engineering. I read a lot about it.

My uncle was very helpful and he helped guide me through schools and like, just trying to explain to me the education system. And we found a really good program in Louisiana, pretty close to where he lives so that my dad can have like a peace of mind. Still needs those eyes. Yeah. Still need those eyes a little bit of uh, sure.

His touch in my life and, um, Uh, I applied and I got accepted and then applied for the visa and got [00:07:00] rejected, cried so much then. So this was the F1 visa? Yes. Okay. The f1. Yeah. Which is a student visa. It is a student visa. And, um, yes, after that, um, I applied again and got accepted then. And how quickly could you apply?

Like let's say it gets rejected, then you have to wait or can you apply right away or, um, I don't know right now, but this happened in 2015 and I applied the exact same day. Okay. So I came, I went home, I cried it out. Then I was like, dad, let's go. And we did it. And then I had the, my meeting one week after that.

Wow. That's fast. It was pretty fast. Yes. Today. I mean, forget one week even sometimes one year is like a problem. It really is. Like right now, the, the sooner you can get like, um, An interview is like six, seven months. Right, right. Mm-hmm. So, okay, so you get your f1 now, you're excited, you cried it out. That's in the past.

You're coming to America, Louisiana. Yes. Louisiana. And, and you're gonna study [00:08:00] biomedical engineering. Yes. And so what were your expectations? How did that life begin? Oh my gosh. How did that journey begin? When I tell you that the, the way that America sees us is the way that I saw America. When I came to Louisiana, I thought there was gonna be like, bigger buildings, New York, and like new, exactly.

New York. And then I show up and like the, it's like, what, what is happening? This is, this is not even close to the city that I lived in back home. And so I had to navigate that. Um, you can't walk anywhere. You have to be, you have to have a car. And I'm 17, like, what is happening? Um, but, um, I, I guess the hardest part or like.

For me specifically, was I didn't want to let my, my dad down because he kind of like pushed through this barrier to allow me to come. So I wanted to do so well in school. Right. And that first week it was, it was just confusing [00:09:00] for me. Um, I, I had to buy robots for my engineering classes. I had to like do all of these things that I'm not really used to back home.

And so what about language? Was that a barrier at all or? No. See, those movies helped me. They helped me out a lot. However, there's a, a southern accent. So what in school, I didn't have a problem. However, if I wanted to go order something at a restaurant, it really, really was a problem. I couldn't really understand the southern, the thick, southern accent in Louisiana.

Right. Um, so that took me a little bit of getting used to, I lost 10 pounds because I couldn't eat in the cafeteria. I didn't understand what people were saying. But, um, in school it was, it was not that big of a deal. Okay. Yes. So movies helped. You were able, you were able to like, push through. Yes, I did.

And now you're studying bio, you know, by now you're studying engineering. Yes. You're buying all these robots. Uh, and of course you're doing your parents [00:10:00] proud, which I think all immigrants sort of carry on their shoulders. It's very important. Heavy. It's very important that we make our parents proud, you know?

Of course, of course. I think that's like number one. You see it as s. That they did, like, not just financially, but like emotionally knowing that they're allowing their daughter or their son to be so far away living with that fear of something that might happen to them. Um, it's a sacrifice that the whole family kind of carries.

So you, we don't take it lightly as immigrants. Right. And this was when, this was, now, now we're still in 20 15, 16, yes. Um, and you're right. Yeah. We definitely don't take this, uh, likely. I think it's something that all immigrants come built in with, right? Yes. Yes. And eventually the plan is to bring our families here somehow.

Yes. You know, ultimately that is ultimately your family's outside. You wanna bring up somehow, uh, so I, I totally get it. So, okay. 20 15, 16. Now you're adapting, uh, you're learning, I guess you're building these robots. What was that journey like? What was that education like and what did it, what [00:11:00] did it like result in.

So, um, the first, I would say that, um, the, the education system in Morocco prior to, to, uh, college is really intense. Yeah. So, compared to students here, I was way advanced in math. I was way advanced in biology. Um, the only probably the classes that were really hard for me to adapt to in the first few years were, were the English classes, like the writing and, and stuff.

But, um, the hardest year of my college experience was my junior year, and that was the year that my dad passed. Oh. So to hear that, um, yeah. Thank you. Um, yes. It, it was so hard because it was so unexpected. I had to be in classes during the summer to be able to graduate on time and do something next. And, um, you know [00:12:00] how immigrant parents, they wouldn't allow me to know that he was sick.

Um, so it was kind of like a shock to me. But in the same time, um, the education system here just expected me to keep going. Yeah. Um, so like, even though I kind of like knocked all the doors and said, Hey, like I have to leave to Morocco, I need to see my family and all of that, and they would, they said, no, you have to like, basically take your exams before you leave.

If you don't, then um, you're gonna have to repeat the semester basically, or the quarter. Cuz it was like Yeah, yeah. The term. Yes. Um, and so I was stuck here in the US for a month to be able to take my exams, then to travel to see my family. And let me tell you, that was like a mon like that moment changed me completely.

In every single way. Um, from [00:13:00] going from like, okay, I can explore this life knowing that I have a backbone to like being, oh, I am my backbone right now. I have to take care of myself. Like I have to like be more vigilant with the choices that I make. Um, even when it comes to school, school seemed like it was like the end be all.

All of a sudden it's meaningless. Right? So I would say that was my, the hardest year of my life. Um, but I graduated. But you graduated. Congratulations. I did. So that's good. Thank you. And I'm sure you got really good grades. Yes, I did. And I worked, uh, jobs and to make, um, to make enough money to apply for grad school.

That was once you graduated? Yes. And I mean before, so that senior year, because my dad passed in junior year, during my senior year, um, it was like the application starts, right? So you're not just taking 600 level classes, you're also thinking [00:14:00] what's next? How can I like, rebrand myself to be like attractive to all these like programs, right?

Um, and um, I applied to 17 colleges. Can you believe that? Um, so when my dad passed, I thought maybe I should not be a doctor. I don't think I can handle telling all these people that they're significant other, yeah, they're loved ones. Yes. Something is going wrong or they're gonna pass, or I just did not think that I can handle it cuz I couldn't handle it myself.

Right? Just seeing that every single day was just not, it's gonna remind me constantly of. The loss that I felt, right? So I started thinking what I wanted to do, and I came across this bridge between biomed biology or so in biomedical engineering. I worked in a, a neuro lab. Basically, we were trying to understand Alzheimer patients and their brain structures.

[00:15:00] So, um, I was like, okay, this is what I'm interested in. However I wanna do it in a way that does not really just affect sick or like people that have some type of sickness or abnormalities. So I came, I came across this bridge between business and neurology and, um, neuroscience, and I was like, this is interesting.

So I applied to, um, a marketing program to study neuromarketing, which is basically the study of the brain, just from a consumer's perspective, not from a medical perspective. And here we are. I applied to 17 schools because I had an engineering background. And in a PhD program, thousands of people apply and only two people get selected, right?

So they would rather have somebody who has a, a marketing background or a neuroscience background. Um, but I didn't have that so, I kept [00:16:00] applying and applying and applying and applying. And the way that I got into, um, the programs that I got into was by just showing up. You know how like in Mor in back home, I don't know if it's similar, you just show up.

You just show up. You're just like, Hey, hello, I read your research. I'm really a big fan. Could I please get into the program? That's how I got into a couple of schools from the ones that I applied to. That's awesome. So I'm, I'm gonna backtrack just a little bit. Yes. Okay. And we're, were, you said you got a job in your senior year.

Yes. Now, from what I know, like getting a job for immigrants is not that easy. It's not like you just like, you know, decide that, Hey, I wanna get a job tomorrow, and you get a job. I feel like there's more hurdles that immigrants have to jump, uh, just to get a job compared to like American people. Okay. Um, I agree with you.

I agree with you. Uh, first of all, jobs, regular jobs are not allowed. So, um, if you're an immigrant student, what, what do you mean not allowed? Like, if you're a student, it's illegal for you to work outside of campus. Okay. So, [00:17:00] um, so like, if you want a waiting job or like, uh, no, you can, you cannot, unless it is within the cafeteria in your school or within, um, the food company that is, that provides the food, right.

For your school. You really cannot work in any other industry, like outside of school. So your papers or your work papers have to be legally binding to the university for you to be legal. Okay. Otherwise, if you leave the country, you would not be able to come back. And it actually happened to one of my friends.

Um, and he couldn't graduate. So what, what happened to him? Like he, um, he was working with, with a, a friend. He was also, uh, an, an Arab immigrant and he had a restaurant. And so he, this my friend, he needed a job to kind of like sustain his lifestyle right. As a student. And he gave him a job and helped him out.

Um, and when he went back home, they wouldn't allow him to renew his visa to come back because they found [00:18:00] out that yes, that he was working. That he was working. And that's not allowed. Yeah, it is not allowed. It's illegal. Okay. So how does one get a job then? So, um, the way that I did it was I really got immersed in.

International associations. Okay. I got immersed in the African Association, the Arabic Association, the Muslim Association. There is also an international association that just combines everybody. And that way you get, so, you get to know so many people. You get to know professors, you get to know managers, you get to know, uh, people that just work in random offices in the university.

And when I, when I was looking for a job, I kind of just contacted all of these people and I was like, Hey, like I'm looking for a job. How do I go about this? How do I do it the right way? And they were very, very, very helpful, um, to me. Um, even if they couldn't allow, um, offer me a job, they would point me into the right direction.

So my first job on campus was in catering. I [00:19:00] used to drive a truck for Aramark, which is the company that does the food and. In the university and to see me, a tiny person driving a truck was very funny. I still cannot believe. Probably like a delivery truck or, yes, it is a delivery. They're like big trucks.

Yes, it is a big truck. Yes. So I would deliver like the props and the food for like a certain like event like sports events, catering for the football team, the baseball team, and all of that within on campus. Are you, are we talking about like FedEx style or you get in and then you unload and load the stuff and you, Dr.

You drive the, like you do the whole thing? Uh, well, yeah, but it was a team. It was not like a, I I, I used to drive the truck sometimes. Um, and that was mainly my, my job, but we had other bigger dudes. Okay. Like Lyft. Okay, got it. So you were the designated driver? Yeah. Driver, yes. It's not like you had to like carry stuff on your back and No, no.

I, I did not [00:20:00] have to do that. Okay. Okay. Got it. Got it. Okay. So that's how you got your first job? Yes. What did, what, what, what's the money like? Is that even enough to like, oh, yeah. Um, the money, it was not so much, but also the university that I chose had a really, really good program. But the cost of living around and also the, the cost, like the cost of the school is so low.

And I encourage everybody who's like trying to come to the US or who was here and wants to pursue an education. Do not be like, do not listen to all these people. Oh, Ivy League. Oh, this school is, I don't know where, and I wanna live in Miami. Please do not do that. It's not worth it. It's not worth going into debt.

It's not worth like having student loans. Um, find a good program, a respectable program, maybe an R one school or an R two school and choose somewhere that is small, that is [00:21:00] affordable, where you can actually work and whatever money that you're making. I think I used to make, in this one job, I used to make, I think nine or $10 per hour, and I think there was a limit on how much I could work in this.

So, yeah, but it was enough. It was enough I, um, for my living expenses in Louisiana. Okay. Well that's great. That's awesome. I mean, nine, 10 bucks an hour and you're telling me that you're probably working two, three hours a day? Maybe, maybe a little more than that. Um, it was more like in the weekends, so like, it would be like 14 days shifts for the football team.

For football game or something, or like some type of event. But yeah, it was not, it was not bad. Okay. Yeah. And so, okay, I'm just digesting delivery truck. Uh, you know, you are driving this truck. Okay. From this truck. You're also studying? I am. Um, and this is very early on. So then [00:22:00] where does that journey go?

Um, as so slowly, I, I stopped working for the division of, um, events because, um, The more you go in school, in a, not a PhD in the engineering program, the classes get harder and harder. Um, um, you have to put in more effort and more hours. So that job just couldn't, I, I, I couldn't maintain both, right? And I was taking so many classes.

So I transitioned to work at the coffee shop on campus and I learned so much about coffee, which is actually one of my passions. I mean, love coffee, you're Middle Eastern,

north Africans really love coffee too. Coffee coffee's part of the culture. It really is. It really is. So I learned so much about coffee and I worked there I think about a year. And then, um, I got super, uh, close to my [00:23:00] professors in the biomedical engineering. Department and two professors offered me, um, a job, a research job.

Okay. So, um, I started Does do they need to like sponsor you as well at that point? Or how does that work? What do you mean by sponsor? Like, I mean, immigration wise from what I know, like when you come here as a student, you need like a, like a, like you need a way to like switch that student visa into something else.

So how did that happen for you? So you uh, I, they did not sponsor me. Um, I, I don't think that could happen while you're still studying. Oh, got it, got it. You have to have a degree and like, you have to be like offered kind of like a full-time job, um, to be able to do that. Also, even if you are offered a full-time job, you still have to put in two to three years before they can even think about sponsoring.

You got it. It's, yeah, it's a very lengthy PR process. Process. And they don't sponsor you right away for a green card. They might [00:24:00] sponsor you for a B visa. Um, like an H one. An H one, yeah. Yeah. Visa or, and then if you're good. If you're good and they cannot live without you, basically they will spars sponsor you for a green card.

Got it. So then you got an offer. Would you say this is common, uh, for anybody coming from the outside listening to this, would that be a good avenue to look into, like talk to your professors, maybe they can provide you with, uh, like work? Yes, that's definitely, uh, I would say, um, it's all about network networking.

I feel like America, all, all of America is built on networking. You can get so many places if you just focus on human resources, just talking to people, um, being upfront with what you need and what you want, right. Um, and yeah, for me it was, I wanted to learn more about research because there. There was a very big chance that even if I wanted to become, um, a doctor, I would have to know a lot about research and maybe at some point even write [00:25:00] research papers, right?

And that makes better doctors, right? So I really wanted to learn about, um, research. Also, I wanted to know what part of the, the body am I interested in. So these professors, these two professors had two separate like labs. One of them was about the heart and the other one was neuro. And I was offered a job and I was like, let me see.

Um, I worked first at the neuro lab and for just one semester, and then I worked a little bit in the other. Um, for, I don't, I don't even think it was a semester, I mean a quarter, it was probably like a month, and then I transferred to a different lab to study on the Alzheimer's trial, and I really enjoyed that part.

Um, the pay was much higher than, there you go. Yes. It was much, much higher. And the, the type of work is not as intensive or like physical, right? Yes. So you ended [00:26:00] up sticking to the Alzheimer's, uh, research. Yes. Uh, and then I guess you continued on that path. Yes, I did. I, I stuck in, I stuck in the, the neuro lab.

I enjoyed it more. Um, and I, I kind of like, um, I worked a little bit in the business school as well. Okay. In my senior year. But for the most part, I worked about a year and a half in the neuro lab, that specific neuro lab that studied Alzheimer's. So talk to us about the business. What was that like? So, um, to be honest, in my senior year when I was telling you that I wanted to be, I wanted to apply for a, a marketing, um, PhD position.

I kind of wanted to wiggle myself into the business school cuz I really did not have any people that I knew in the business like school, right? So I started like studying more there, getting to know everybody, getting to know the dean, getting to know, um, a lot of people. And [00:27:00] um, one time I was talking to just a random worker, I really don't even know.

I think she was the secretary of the dean. Or something like that. And, um, she said, you know, you are so delightful. There's a job that Mr. Daryl is offering the IT department here in the business school. And I was like, really? She was like, yeah. I was like, you know what, I'm gonna go ask. And I went and I asked and he was like, yeah, it's not gonna be long hours.

It's like 10 hours and all you do is if a professor calls and there's a problem with the projector or computer, you can help out. And I was like, yeah, great. I love that. So you troubleshoot? Yes. And so I started doing that as well in parallel with Okay. The research. Okay, so now walk us, when was this? What year was this?

This was 2018. 2019. Okay. So pre pandemic? Yes. Okay. Barely pre pandemic. Now. Now we're getting, now we're getting somewhere. Somewhere. Okay. So let's [00:28:00] let, let's talk about Yes. Uh, Let's talk about that and we're gonna get into the pandemic cuz you know, the pandemic shaped us all, all, all my gosh, changed us, made us all different, you know, in, in very different ways.

Uh, but okay, so your pre pandemic, it's 2018. 2019, uh, your, your research is going well. Is this the point where you start thinking PhD? Yes. Okay. Yes. And so what, what was that like? Because I know that the acceptance that you mentioned was, is like crazy law. So how did that happen for you? So, to be honest, I was, there was like, it's much more stressful for, um, an immigrant to be applying to grad school than it is for American.

So all my American friends, they were very helpful in my class. They were like, yeah, we're applying to the PhD program and master's program and everything. And for us it's like, oh, if I don't get accepted, I'm gonna get deport. So it's like the, the stakes are kind of higher, right? I never thought about that.

[00:29:00] Yes. So you either, you either have, um, an active I 20, which is like the document that the university gives you, or you have to go home. Okay. Yes. So you can't even study. No. Just go home. Yeah. You have to get accepted by another school. So whatever it is, a master's program, a PhD, whatever it is, you have to be accepted.

You have to have an active I 20. So as immigrants, are you juggling that all the time? Are you like in the back of your mind, not only thinking about your education, but also thinking about, oh, I have to renew this, or I have this much time and I have to do something? Of course, of course. You have to constantly think about the things that you need to have to be on good standing.

Um, you have to have more than nine credit hours. You have to, um, not drop any classes. To be below that, you have to not work outside. You have to not work more than the limit. I'm not sure if it was 30 hours or 25 hours. Yeah. But this feels like a whole. Headache that you have to like, think about. Of course.

Other than your education. Of course, of [00:30:00] course. Yes. It is another headache. And come senior year, everybody's like, I don't know what my passion is. I'm like, I need to stay here. So, um, yeah, I was, um, that's why I was very intensive in the way that I was applying. So I had to take the G R E and then figure out what schools I need to apply to and how can I position myself coming from an engineering background, also dealing with the grief of Right.

Losing my dad. It was, it was very, very tough. However, I would say that I pu pushed myself to focus on what's next, to kind of like deflect from thinking about the grief. Right. And you couldn't even go back. So that in itself is so difficult. Yes, it is difficult. You have to deflect quite a lot, I would imagine in that case.

Yes, I did. I did. Yeah, I did go back after I finished that semester. I did go back because I needed to be with my family. Right. Um, but I, obviously I couldn't stay longer [00:31:00] than I'm supposed to. Only the break that they gave us, which was probably like three weeks and I had to come back and start again. Yeah.

What's life with your family like? Like back home? Like what do, like, what is that life like? Oh my gosh. Um, Morocco is amazing. This is totally sponsored. I love, love Morocco. Life in Morocco is more chill, more. Happy, I guess like in like bubbly in a way. Yeah. Um, my family, um, the dyna, I feel like even the language is more bubbly.

Like just the things that you can tell other people. Yeah. More tongue in cheek. Like, I feel like the English language lacks a lot of like that type of conversation. Deepness. Yeah. Right. I, I agree. I agree. I feel like there's, there's no matching Arabic to be honest. Right. No matter what language do you speak?

I speak French as well. Right. And it's just like, it's no matching Arabic. Right. There's, but so what is that life like in Morocco? So you said [00:32:00] it's chill, it's more bubbly. It's, yeah, it's more bubbly. It's chill. My family, because you know, when we look at Morocco through, through the tv, it's like, it's like heaven.

You know? And I'm assuming that's like the touristic parts. Yeah. Not all of it is like that, but like, but like, is it really like, It really is like that. Um, and let me just say, even if it does not look like heaven, the people makes it make it heaven, right? So like, my mom is actually from where you see like 10 Tangier, she's from there.

Yeah. Tji. Exactly, yes. And it's like the more, the most touristic place in, in Morocco, right? Um, it's so, it's nice. It looks nice. The lifestyle is amazing. There's like, there's wealth. There's wealth, not just money wise, but like education wise and religion wise, everything. There's just a lot of wealth. And, um, but, um, my dad is from a different part is, um, his family lived 20 minutes outside of Casablanca.

And so that's where I grew up, like 20 minutes outside of [00:33:00] Casablanca. And even though it does not look as glamorous as Tangier, but the people, the, the, the way that they carry themselves, the way that they carry, like the struggles of life and all of that, it's like in a very bubbly, kind of like push forward type of mentality.

Positive value. Yes. Very positive lives, very positive outlook. Well, that's good on life. Oh, that's good. Yes. Uh, you know, I, I only bring this up because, you know, I spent a lot of summers in Yemen with my family. Mm-hmm. Very similar, you know, uh, yeah. They, they, you know, the, the country's not wealthy by any means, but the people just, they're so full of love and, you know, the language is so deep and everybody kind of knows everybody.

So, you know, there's really not much, uh, that you can get away with, let's just say. Yeah. Uh, at least for me, when I was young, uh, and I used to go visit my family in the summers. All right, well, that's good. So, Let's backtrack again. Uh, I got distracted. You love going back, but let's backtrack. So we, so now we're pre pandemic.

Yes. [00:34:00] You're, you are, you're, you know, you're continuing your edu or you've applied Yeah. For your education. You have all these immigration things that you have to like, you know, also tackle at the same time. Uh, and then what happens? Um, what happens? I get, I get connected to, uh, this amazing professor and I do walk into his office and I say, Hey, like, I'm really interested in pursuing the PhD program.

Can you help me? And stuff. Is it in the same school where you did your, uh, like, uh, uh, pre PhD educa or is it a different school? Um, so I only contact, I really did not wanna stay in Louisiana. Uh, but I only contacted him cuz he was in my school, but he was getting another position in the University of Mississippi where I'm studying right now.

Okay. So I thought it would be like really amazing, but. Fair. Fair. Like warning. I did not just speak to him, I spoke to other people. I even traveled here to Houston and went to and spoken to a couple of [00:35:00] professors in the University of Houston, U of H. Yeah. Yeah. So I, you were all over the place. I talked to everyone, but I did go and I spoke to him and we had this like point together.

He loves France and he loves like the, the culture and stuff. So it was very easy to communicate with him. He asked me about my background and he comes also from an engineering background, a chemical engineering background, and he was like, you're gonna be great. If I'm great, you're gonna be great. And I was like, great.

And he was like, go and apply and contact this per person in the admissions and. That's how it happened. Um, I did, and then everybody was getting accepted everywhere, right? And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm not gonna get accepted. This is like really bad. What am I gonna do? And then I get back, they get back to me like late May, which is like way past time where people get like accepted.

And um, they offered, um, they told [00:36:00] me, well, we're gonna offer you a full scholarship, however, and a stipend, however you have to take the gma. And I was like, okay, I'll take the GMAT and I have to get this certain score. So I did that. I took it twice, then I got the score that they needed. And yeah, by July, by June I was accepted.

And I had all my papers. You had all your papers? Yes. You know, it's funny you say that. Um, and I just remembered this. I don't even know if you guys know the story and you guys, I mean the guys who were watching this before in the office, is that my sister? Yeah. Uh, Iman. Also came here as a student at the u h.

Okay. And she applied right at the cutoff, uh, for her f1. Like she couldn't get in because, or she couldn't get the f1 cuz she had, didn't have her, you know, there was a problem. Mm-hmm. And one day she came to me and she's like, you know what, I have an issue. I can't get my visa because they didn't give me the admission.

I can't pick my classes and all that. And I remembered at the time, the gym that I worked out at, the dean of admissions [00:37:00] in U of H worked out with me. He was like my workout buddy. Oh my gosh. And he always kept saying like, yeah, you know, admission, he always kept talking. I didn't understand what he kept saying, you know?

And then I was like, hold on, wait, listen, my sister applied to your school, can you help me? He's like, yeah, I'm the guy. I'm totally the, and I'm like, what do you mean you're the guy? He's like, yeah, I'll just, I'll just make a phone call. And believe it or not, I told my sister to get in touch with him. She called him.

Minutes later gets all her classes racked up so that she can take care of her, take it. It was crazy. And I was like, bro, you are the guy, man. I didn't know this was a thing. And he's like, yeah. You know, sometimes, you know, we just push paper and we have maybe, uh, people who are not so motivated to like mm-hmm.

You know, do their job. Yeah. Um, so we have to like hover over them to kind of get it done. It's again, I get it done. That's so true. Yeah. But then again, this goes back to like the US is all based on human resources. Like literally get to know people. Networking. Yeah. Just network. Network is network. Yes.

That's what they say. Right? That's what they say. All right. So, okay. Uh, pandemic. Let's talk about that. How did that shape your life? What did that do? Um, okay. How did that change you as a person, if at all? Oh my gosh. Definitely [00:38:00] changed me. If anybody came to you and they were like, one day everybody was wearing masks and you were walking and there was have to be.

Space, which you would be like, what trip are you on? Right. What psychedelic trip are you on? Because we, we never thought that our life is going to be the way it was. But let's say I was so much veted, I got to this PhD program, I have to prove myself, I have to like, push through in my work so I can forget about the grief.

Right? And then the pandemic happens and then we get trapped in our houses and people started having panic attacks. Um, I had two of my friends die. One of them committed suicide because she couldn't deal with being far away from people. And um, one of them died because of Covid. And that just was like, The, the boost that like popped.

The boost is like needle guys Needle. Yeah. The needle that popped the whole situation. [00:39:00] The straw that broke the camels back. Yes. It was like, oh my gosh, all the grief is coming back. Oh my God, my dad passed and all these people are gonna pass. And it was really, really hard to get over. Like, um, I would say more than depression.

It was just like this whole reflection, like reflection scenario going in my mind, am I doing the right thing? Am I happy? What are I doing? Is education even worth it? Do I, should I go back and stay with my family and like if something bad happens, I'm there. So all of these things and Yeah. Cuz you're here alone, you're questioning everything.

Yeah. You are you especially like in, during the pandemic, it's just you and your thoughts, right? I'm sure you were isolated. Very isolat. Yeah, very isolated. I was in Mississippi in Oxford, Mississippi, and all my family was far right. Yeah. My uncles were in Louisiana. My aunts were way, way further than that.

Right. Yeah. I mean, I Look, COVID changed everyone. I, uh, yeah. I sold, um, my business before c o [00:40:00] right before Covid. Oh, wow. The, it was a, it was a very fun time when we sold the business, but then during Covid, uh, we were isolated and I didn't, and I was jobless, like, you know, I was sitting at home and had nothing to do to do.

Oh my gosh. And I'm like, okay. I wake up every day, I put all my clothes. I'm like, okay, there's no work. It's like, where do I go? You know? So I felt really, I really felt like that covid that, you know, pandemic time really changed me, and everybody we talked to on, you know, on the show has had direct impact because of that.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So it's, it's definitely a big. Um, I, when I started teaching right after co like right after Covid, like kind of right after we started going back to school, even though Covid was still there and my students would come to me and they were like, how important is this test in like the view of life right now?

Like, look at where we are. Like nothing matters. Even the education system is not as important as it was, and I really like failed to be able to answer them. Of course, it doesn't [00:41:00] matter, like people are dying. We don't know, but like, you just have to keep pushing forward. Yeah. How do you explain that to like teenagers?

Yeah. You know, there's like a new virus that just came out that they just posted today that they have the, the first death I have not heard about. It's like, uh, the, the, the chicken pot. Not the chicken pot. It's like the chicken virus. Chicken virus. It's also based outta China. Oh my gosh. They had their first death, but apparently it doesn't spread fast, so Oh my goodness.

I cannot redo that. Yeah, yeah, I know, right? Zara, Zara will figure out what the virus is in a second, but, uh, Marba, what's it called? Marba. Marba. Marba. It's the marba virus. It's just today it's brand new. Like it's the Wow. Yeah. And you know, the cool, the weird thing is if you want news mm-hmm. American outlets don't have news.

You have to like go to Reuters. You have to go to like international outlets Wow. To figure out what is going on. Yeah. Uh, cuz American outlets are very like American, you know, they have American news. That's so true. Uh, so, okay, so back to you. Mm-hmm. And, uh, at this point, now you're teaching. [00:42:00] Yes. So walk us through that.

What, how, how did that come to be? Okay. So, so is this what you do now? Uh, no. Right now I'm only working on my dissertation. But in the PhD program, um, for them to be able to sponsor you and also give you a stipend. Got it. Mm. Which is, The ideal situation. Right. Full ride. And also a stipend, which does not allow you to think about anything else besides the PhD program, which you much needed.

Cuz it's very intensive work. Right. Um, um, you are kind of required to kind of work if needed, if you, if you are needed. So if, if a professor needs help with the research or if a, um, they need you to teach a class or whatever, you have to be there. Yeah. You have to be available. Yes. So, um, right after Covid I started teaching, it was my first class.

Okay. Yeah. In my second year. Okay. Um, and so now you're focused on your dissertation, but you're also focused on social media. I am. [00:43:00] Because that's a journey. Is that, is that a result, uh, so to speak, of the isolation, um, that you took up? Or, or what, what inspired you to like, oh my gosh. You know, start your social media journey because that's, I mean, A lot of people don't realize this, but that takes time to learn.

It really does. You know, away from, uh, things that you are actually doing. Yeah. And you're, and you're doing very intense things. Yes. Um, and I wish I could give more time to social media. So in like my, my junior year I met, um, I met a few people in my university in Louisiana that were really interested in social media.

They did YouTube very intensely and they had very big followings. And so I just got introduced to the idea. Then I, I was asked to help with a couple of like, content pieces and stuff and I was like, this is interesting. This is so much fun. Like, um, so that's where it started. I started very slow cuz I, like I said, I was always focused on school cuz that seemed like the end of be all.

Um, but I started [00:44:00] posting different things about fashion but different things. I just wanted to like kind of test it out. And so I was really interested in social media way before it became like, The getaway for During the pandemic. During the pandemic, yeah. And so then what, what, like what do you, what do you post?

Well, back then I just posted really everything about my life, how I got here. If there was anybody that needs help with applying to universities, which I get a lot of questions, by the way. Um, from immigrant, from international people. Yes. From international students. Yeah. I would assume. I mean, people are curious.

They really want to know, and a lot of people don't really know how to do it. Mm-hmm. Uh, even some Americans, especially when it comes to the PhD program mm-hmm. Because they, they're not really familiar, um, with how the PhD works, especially when they hear, they hear that I don't have a master's. And there's like this like idea that if you don't have a master's, you can't get a PhD.

But I feel like that's more of a back home kind of thing. Yeah. Like I didn't know that was a thing before I met you, by the way. Yeah. I didn't know that you [00:45:00] could get your PhD without doing a master's here. Oh yeah, you can. Yeah. Like the master's is more of like, um, an industry focused. Degree and PhD is more like academic.

Mm-hmm. Academia focused and the research focused. Yeah. So they really can do not intertwine unless you're studying medicine, right? Yeah. Unless you're studying to be a doctor, doctor or a pharm far. Yeah. Pharmacist. Pharmacist. Yes. Got it. Okay. So, um, where were we? We were talking about me teaching. Yes. You teaching?

Let's talk about you teaching. Yes. Uh, back back to that. So you, you teaching was a part, uh, program was an agreement. Mm-hmm. You know, with your program so that you could get the stipend in Yeah. You get the full ride and all of that. Um, q questions that you're getting, um, and you're answering. So you said that, you know, when you look at the bigger picture, how valuable is this test or how Val Yeah.

And, and you are kind of. Is that because, uh, the American educational system is [00:46:00] different or is that because you have a different, uh, like perception now that you have had these experiences in your life? Um, I don't think that in my eyes there was like any difference because I was still going with the PhD program.

But like when my students came to me and they asked me the question of how relevant is this? Like maybe I'll die tomorrow with Covid and we don't know, we don't have any tests about this. And, um, how relevant is this? Like, is this test going to be a very like, big thing in my life And I've been asked this question multiple times, I really did not know how to answer them.

And how old are these students who are asking you these questions? Or like, teens, early twenties. So they're fairly young. Yeah, they're fairly young. They're at the age where they question everything. Yes. They question every, everything is a question. Oh, of course. And the pandemic, like I said, it just put people in contact with their thoughts way too much.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. We, we had too much time towards them. Too much. Yes. We need to start getting busy. I think we, I think we've done a good job with getting busy now. Yes. Uh, [00:47:00] let me ask you this. Mm-hmm. Does the economy impact you in any way, uh, with what you do right now? Yeah. Um,

I would say yes, it does affect me however, like, um, I'm still like in this narrow kind of like mindset because I'm just trying to finish my PhD. I'm just trying to submit that final project Yeah. And, and stuff. But occasionally when like I see changes in gas and egg prices, it just seems like something is happening.

Okay. So, You know, let's say in Charla, your dissertation is complete. You do, you know, you're fairly successful. Mm-hmm. And you get your PhD at what's next? Well, I really wanna follow social media full-time. Well, yeah. Okay. That, that's a plot twist right there. Yeah. Okay. Let's, let's explore that for a second.

So, you've worked super hard. I did. You've [00:48:00] achieved probably like, forget about Americans. You've achieved probably 0.000. One of what? Immigrants, I probably know, maybe one other immigrant in my entire network that has achieved this much academically. Mm-hmm. Uh, so quickly. Mm-hmm. Uh, and that person went on to become a doctor.

Mm-hmm. Uh, a cancer doctor. He works in research, you know, great job, but amazing. But that's his dream. That's his, that's what he want. He wants to build a team. He wants to be on the cutting edge of. You now want to pursue social media? Yes. Okay. That's where we met, by the way. So you're that're obviously doing it.

Yeah, it's working, you know, uh, uh Okay. Walk, walk us through that. Okay. By the way, I just wanna say this, that also as an immigrant, dating in America is hard. So keep in mind if you're covering, we're gonna, we're gonna get back to that. Yes. That's another topic that we need to talk about. Um, but, um, with social media, I just think that, um, there's so much to explore and so much to achieve.

Like, for you as a successful businessman, why do you choose to do [00:49:00] podcasts? Right? Why do you choose to like, allow people to see who you are beyond, beyond the fact that you're just a successful business person, right. Person, right, right. Um, because you have the ability to rebrand yourself, rebrand yourself, and put yourself in these multifaceted kind of cube.

Right. And like deliver it to people. And that will help you, not just with your business with many things to come in the future. Right. I just don't like talking to people face to face. I prefer them looking at me behind the screen. Why not? No. So me. Okay. So this is very interesting. Okay. I'll, I'll give you my, my journey.

Mm-hmm. And my social, I had zero social media presence mm-hmm. Until 20 21, 1. When TikTok was like, brand new, brand new. It just came out. I remember I was talking to Adani, another guest on the podcast who's a friend of mine. Mm-hmm. And me and him joined TikTok because of Gary V. You know, you know Gary V?

Of course. Yes. Yeah. So Gary V came out and he started yelling, you know, he's like, you guys need to, to get on TikTok. TikTok, yeah. You have to do TikTok. It's [00:50:00] the fucking TikTok, you know? And we're like, okay, let's go do TikTok. And so I actually started, uh, doing dancing skits and skits. So I was, I, you know, I started that and I, and I gained a huge following.

And back then there weren't enough creators. Mm-hmm. So like we were getting followers so quickly, and it was so cool. And then I realized, you know what? I think I can monetize this. Mm-hmm. And so that's kind of my journey on social media. Mm-hmm. And that's kind of how I grew. Mm-hmm. And then of course I got Zara and then we bought, got this whole team together.

Uh, and then we started posting What would you post on social media? What do you have to say? Okay. So, um, I think that my perspective is very unique. I do have like the, what we just talked about, the immigrant story and also the academic story. Um, I went all the way in academia, what's next? Can you still follow other dreams, other passions?

Yes, you can. That's what I wanna do. Um, I wanna be able to share that, share that journey, post-graduation, post doing all of that. I also [00:51:00] wanna share the dating advice because I really like resonate so much with that because living in such rural areas like. Louisiana, Mississippi and Mississippi, it's very, very hard to find that community.

So I wanna be able to help people that are also in the same boat as I was. Situation. Yes. That's a lot. There's a lot of them like that. Mm-hmm. A lot of, a lot, a lot of people. In fact, most people who come, uh, come in similar circumstances. Yes. You know, they end up being part of the school that's in very, they end up working in rural areas, right?

Yes. Yes. Then they end up getting married to someone back home. Back home and, and bring them, you know, once to get their city, you know, all of that. Mm-hmm. So it's a very, very common occurrence. Mm-hmm. And obviously your story's a little different, uh, because I'm, I I think you met your significant other here.

I did. Okay. You did. It did a And so and so walk us through that. So walk us through the dating, the difficulty, the meeting, the marriage. Um, yeah. So up till I graduated from my, [00:52:00] my bachelor's, I did not, I was not thanking marriage at all. I was like, yeah, let's just finish. Let's just do great things in life and, and then I get to Mississippi and all that.

Support that I had in Louisiana, evaporated fe. My family is far the, the system that I built around myself and associations and all of that is also gone because now in the PhD program we have like, you have so much to do, you just don't have time to like be a part of any associations or any other things.

Right? So, and that's when I was like, okay, I guess I need a partner in life. Right? And I started like little by little opening to the idea of. Courting and getting to know more Muslims and stuff. And it just seemed impossible. It just seemed impossible to find people, likeminded to find people that are interested in actual, like halal ways.

And um, and it was just, it just seemed like it was an impossible, impossible puzzle. Right. And most people around me, they would [00:53:00] say Yeah, like we met through like an app. Yeah, an app or networking. The app and the networking both did not work for me because I was so far Right. Yeah. Out and so nobody wants to come to Mississippi.

Yeah. You know, I, I mean, I'm, I'm thinking about it like I wouldn't go to Mississippi for someone, you know what I mean? I agree. I agree. I would not go to Mississippi for someone. But yeah. So, um, yeah, and then, um, I started coming more to see, to visit my aunt in Dallas and that's how I met. My husband through a, a mutual friend.

Okay. So you did it the old school way, mutual friend, old school way. Does he, do you have social media? Uh, no, I don't have, no. Okay. So full on old school Sometimes. That's the best way. It is the best way, you know, I'll tell you that much. Uh, I, I met my wife in college. Mm-hmm. Uh, sophomore. Well, we actually met freshman year.

That's amazing. Uh, and [00:54:00] then we, we like started dating, uh, the, you know, sophomore year. Yeah. Nothing about my situation was halal, but, but we've been married for no judgment. We, we've been married 20 years, uh, you know, and we're super happily married and we have two kids and, and life goes on. Um, companionship I think is extremely important.

It is really important. Um, after a certain point point in life, uh, you realize that, you know, uh, you need a companion specifically and more, you know, in your case, I guess it's, cuz you are literally alone. Mm-hmm. Your family's back home. Yeah. Uh, and so, you know, I can see how that, that. You know, that's important.

It is. I also saw that you, you kind of documented that journey, uh, on your social media as well. I, yes, I did. I talked about it like constantly and I wanted to reach out to other girls and see if they're also going through that, through issues. And I found out that even people in bigger cities like Houston and, and New York and all of these big cities, [00:55:00] Chicago, they're having the exact same problem.

Um, I'm not sure about what, what is happening is, is, is there like a break in between how girls communicate and guys communicate? No. It's just the app culture. Yes. Or the app culture. But nobody's like straightforward anymore. And it's the app culture. A hundred percent. Yes. Yes. Um, like I feel bad for the youngins that we have here, uh, because the app culture is just gonna, it's very difficult, you know, guys are looking for app culture type product.

Some, and a lot of girls are giving into that. That's true. Uh, and so they're just getting used to it. Mm-hmm. You know? And then all of a sudden, all the people that want serious and long-term goals are irrelevant. Yeah. And I, I get, I get dms from people all over the US talking about the exact same thing or here or here.

This is what happened to me. What do you, what is your advice? Is that what like, you know, motivated you to become an advocate and talk about this? Yes, of course. Um, mainly because I felt the pain of being stuck or like not knowing what else to do, especially when you don't have any [00:56:00] help here and or community.

And also because so many people reached out to me and I made so many connection connections based on that, just being able to vent it out with somebody who really understands where you're coming from, right? Mm-hmm. I also feel like people here, sometimes they're too rigid in their own ways. They don't want to like, You know, give up certain things or, or, you know, blend, uh, and become one, so to speak.

You know, they're like, well, well, you know what? We tried. It didn't work out. It didn't work out. Uh, you know, I'm, I'm setting Yes, exactly. Swipe left, swipe left. Uh, I know there's a bunch of Muslim maps that, uh, mm-hmm. That people use now, and I think, um, I've met quite a few people who I've heard success stories from, uh, through, through the dating apps.

Uh mm-hmm. I don't know what they're called. Uh, you know, uh, I can name, yeah. Yeah, because, you know, what are they called? Um, well, I'm familiar with three, um, CELs, mismatch and Baclava or something. Okay. [00:57:00] Baclava. Yeah, I think so. I think so. Yeah. Like the cookie? Yeah. Yeah. Like, like the dessert. I don't know if that app is a marriage, uh, friendly app.

I don't just by the name of it, but, you know, app culture is a real thing. Mm-hmm. Uh, people are getting more and more zoned into that short term. Uh, you know, either it's endorphins or they want like a boost of like, I don't know, whichever hormone it is. Mm-hmm. Um, and then that's it. They're done, you know, and then it's like, okay, move on to the next.

Everything's good, camera's cooled down, so we're excited. Uh, so where were we? We were talking about apps. You mentioned there were three apps. One of them was called bau. I don't know if that's a, that's an app that we wanna use or we want, we wanna promote to the youth, but I am familiar with SALs. Uh, actually Salaams had a huge, uh, marketing campaign on social media.

They really did, especially on TikTok and Instagram. And, and they used quite a few Muslim, uh, TikTok ERs and influencers app to boost, to boost the app. I think that's actually pretty smart. Yeah. I think what they did was pretty smart with the app. Yes. It was really, [00:58:00] really smart. And I think they sponsored some type of events that everybody went to and that was a very smart Right.

I think I do remember that. Mm-hmm. There was a, there was a conference for, uh, like matchmaking and something, and they were, they were in that, um, do, are you familiar with, um, what is it called? Mass ik? I am, could you turn off the AC please? It's in. Yeah, it's fine. Sorry, I just get it. It uh, it bothers me a little bit.

Oh, it's okay. No, you're good. Okay. So I think we should be a little better now. Alright. Yes. So you were saying, sorry, mass ik. Yes. Are you familiar with it? I am, yes. Okay. It's, it's a Muslim convention. Right. And like within it's huge. It's massive. It's really massive. But always they have some type of like hella dating like event or like mingling toward, toward the end.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speed dating, sort of get to know someone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I know a lot of guys who've been to that and they all complain and they all complain about that the girls are either looking for doctors, lawyers, like they can smell and don't take this the wrong way. But [00:59:00] apparently, and this is not through me, cause obviously I'm married, but like, uh, they're like, they can smell like somebody who is like, you know, uh, eager for specific financially, uh, comp like, oh, superior.

And so they don't even look at like other people, you know, who are, who are, who are maybe good people. Yeah. Uh, is that the case, you think? Um, to be honest, I hope the girls do not get mad at me. Please do not get mad at me. But I've heard some unrealistic expectations for sure. Such as like a hundred K and, and, um, a house and like, when did that become like the metric that we like look at Like what about potential?

Right? What about religion? What about love and Right. Compatibility and the way that we wanna raise our kids and support. Yeah. That's, that's way more important. Also, I got married when I was 20. Yeah. If, if a [01:00:00] hundred K was there's no way I would marry. There's no way that you can Yeah. I wouldn't be able to get married.

Exactly. You know, that's the reality. My meha was probably like 5,000 . Yeah. Uh, and that's what it was, you know? And, and, and if she did not see the potential through what you guys had back then, she wouldn't not like Right. Live through right now, your success. Exactly. And like you being like the successful business.

Exactly, man. So I, what is a reasonable meha? Because I don't even know in terms like, I'm just trying to figure out what that, like, is there a number or is there a standard in America? I really don't think that there is a number, but I think that, uh, when I was getting to, um, get married and I was speaking to my family about, like the idea of a possibility of me getting married, um, they said that probably like, um, the father or um, should look at the, um, the guy's income and kind of like, Based on that, kind of give him a number.

Right. So maybe two [01:01:00] month words of what he makes. Okay. Per year or three. And that's reasonable. Yeah. Because you know, I see all these talkers and they're all talking about 25,000 or 30,000 or 50,000. And I think that's, and these ki these are kids like you're talking, you know, they're in their early twenties.

I don't think it's realistic for people to look at TikTok ERs and decide, okay, that's what my memory's gonna be. Yes. Is that right? Zara, what do you think?

Idealizing it. They're idealizing it. I think that's exactly, yeah, I think that's exactly what she was saying. Let me like, let me add to that. I think that like this, this whole culture, not specific to the Amer, to the Muslim culture, but I see this culture of like, I just wanna be in my feminine I energy and I want my husband to be able to, to provide the earth and the sky.

And like, I wanna be able to just like right off the bat, like live this million dollar like life. And to be honest, that's a real, like not realistic. Like [01:02:00] especially now, yes, you can marry somebody who's rich. What about tomorrow? If there's inflation, which we're looking at it right now. Or do they lose money?

People lose money. Oh, you lose money all the time. So what, what is gonna happen then? Yeah. What are you gonna do right then? Divorce. Then divorce, yeah. Next. That's not a way to look at relationships, right? But it's being idolized, like she said. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, okay, so expectations are unreal. Conferences happen.

Do you think enough happens in this country, um, to really put people together well? Well, I really, really appreciate the initiative that SMA and CELs have been putting. I'm not really familiar with the third, um, app, but I've used CELs and SMA and I have seen constant like growth in both. Okay. Um, was I successful?

I wasn't. Um, I, I think my mentality was very different than everybody that I've met and I was unable to like really form a genuine connection. [01:03:00] But, um, I've, I have, I've heard success stories and I have friends that have success stories from these apps, especially the people that are ready for marriage.

Like if, of course a lot of people use it for wrong intentions. Right. However, for the people that are ready for marriage, It, it kind of like helps out. It does, yes. I'm just trying to imagine what life was like before the apps. Like, you know, like let's say there's a situation where nobody knows anybody, they land in this country.

How do they meet? Like how much work do you have to put in to go and meet someone? Right. So fun fact, one of my friends, I actually was a photographer in her, in her small wedding, um, she met her husband through the, she of like the mere, so you go to the she and you say, Hey, like, I'm really interested in the next step.

Like, can you help me out? And obviously the, she has like relationship with everybody, the right men and the women in the community, the Muslim community. And he was able to connect them and that worked like [01:04:00] an in-house, in-house matrimonial service. It literally, well, but look, as an individual who has paired people together myself, okay, I have learned that you have to be very careful because sometimes things don't work out the way you thought they would.

People, uh, people seem like they're one thing. Mm-hmm. And then you, you pair them together and, and then six months later you find out, you know, hey. Yeah. Uh, it's just not, you know, not the right thing sometimes. Yeah. And, and there's no way to really, for, I I don't think there's a way to foresee that in any way.

I don't think, I don't think there's a way at all. Especially like, even if you know people for 20 years, you tru you don't really truly know them. There's probably a side that you've never seen. Right. And you only could see if you live with them, which is that person that you match them with will actually see.

And so you, you help and you put like forward your peaceful and like positive intentions and you let God take [01:05:00] the wheel. Right. So what's marriage been like for you? Um, how long have you been married, first of all? We got married, um, legally in August and Islamically in October. So, like last year, October.

Yes. So you've been married for a few Islamically, uh, for a few months, yes. Okay. And what's that journey like? You're still in the honeymoon phase is what I would say, but to be honest, it still feels like we're like just engaged because we don't live together yet. Okay. I live in Mississippi to finish my PhD and he lives in Dallas.

We go back and forth, but it, it's like kind of a glorified dating situation. Right. Well, and the reason I I ask that is personally for me, I would say the first couple of years was mm-hmm. Were probably the hardest years of my marriage. Right. Um, and this is, me and my wife were dating for five to seven years prior to that.

Wow. Yeah. So we were like full on dating. And then we got married. Mm-hmm. And still, it was [01:06:00] like, I would say the first two to three years were very difficult. Wow. Uh, you know, to get everything. Yeah. Because, you know, I feel like with our cultures, you're not just marrying the person, you're marrying the entire, the entire family, the entire tribe.

Yes. You know, it's more than a family. Yeah. Uh, and so that adds a layer of complication, I think, within our. Is that something that you foresee? Is that something that, you know, you think you will go through? Um, of course I foresee a lot of challenges and, um, but I'm excited to be honest. I'm excited to do that with him.

I think, um, God made me wait for a reason and you know, me and him only like known each other for like a month and a half before we got engaged. Really? Yes. Wow. That's fast. He's like, I'm not letting her get away. He really did. He really said that. He really said the exact same thing. He's, he was like, I'm gonna make you my wife.

Look, sometimes, you know, you know when you [01:07:00] know him. Yes. You know what I mean? It doesn't matter. And that's, that is true. And you know, the first day that his family visited my family, it, there was just like this harmony. Yeah. Like you would not believe like we're Moroccan, they're Palestinian, but there was just beautiful harmony.

Everything went smooth. The communication was amazing. Like, and that just set precedence to what is hap was gonna happen in this relationship. Right. It was all just positive. Like everything is a communication. Everything is an open door, and that's how it's been going. Despite the challenges, of course, we have to learn to, uh, know how to communicate right and efficiently and navigate the stress of my school and his job and all of these things.

But so far smooth sailing. That's good. I'm really happy for you guys. Thank you. Um, let's talk a little bit more about social media. So, okay. You've, you've accomplished, you know, wild academic success. Thank you. Um, now it's time [01:08:00] to make money. It's time to like, kind of, you know. Mm-hmm. Uh, take care of finances.

It's time to do all this. Yes. You wanna do social media? Is that something that you see yourself doing full-time or is that something that you do alongside, uh, something else? So, um, I decided to take social media seriously and like really, really give it a chance in the beginning of the pandemic and, uh, like everybody else, even though I had the idea way prior.

Um, but I, I never truly and fully gave it my attention. I always had this, you know what, let me finish this before I focus on this. Like, let me just, this one next step. Let me just finish this one class or teach this one class or finish this one project or whatever it is. It was always, let me just, let me just, and so, um, I.

I think that once I have the degree, the PhD degree, I can always come back and work in academia. I can always come back at 50 and be a professor if I want to, a researcher, if I want to. I feel [01:09:00] like that dream will never like cease to end just because I wanna do something different. However, I feel like right now I want to give it my full attention, see how far I can go, knowing that I have the knowledge and I have the charisma and I have, um, the passion for it.

And we have the story. I mean, I have the story. Great. I would say your story is probably 50% of the journey, you know? Cause that's what people tune in for, like Oh, mm-hmm. We feel like we have an attachment. We know her story, and now we wanna listen to what she says. Yes. You know? Um, and so you have a, you have an amazing story.

Thank you. I really appreciate you. Right? Yes. And, and so, okay, you're gonna do it full. How do you, how do, how does that provide or what does that provide? Well, so my plan and, um, I don't think if we've ever discussed this with anybody except me and him. Yeah. But, um, my plan is after, um, I graduate all, well, I'm moving to Dallas very soon in May, [01:10:00] and I wanna take this year from the beginning of May, even though I'm not gonna be graduated by then.

But I wanna take from the beginning of May till next May to give my all to social media like a gap year. Yes. I wanna give everything that I can. Um, Obviously my goal is to monetize it, but that does not come before providing value. So I'm gonna give my all trying to provide value to everybody who's listening out there and trying to rebrand myself and allow, allow people to look into my life and to my journey.

Maybe even like, connect to my journey and then hopefully we'll get to monetize. Okay. So, you know, cuz we have a few people that we've brought on as guests mm-hmm. That are monetized, that are wild, wildly. Yes. Uh, and they make money just from social media. Mm-hmm. You know, they're brand deals, they have sponsorships that people who throw money at.

That's amazing. Uh, and, and the first thing they'll tell you is that no two months are the same. So That's true. One month you could be making, you know, you could be bawling as they would say. Mm-hmm. Like, you'd be making [01:11:00] crazy. Next month you're on zero. Mm-hmm. And this is just the, the life that they've signed up for.

Mm-hmm. Have, have you looked into that side of. Of social media? Uh, I, I actually have, but let me tell you, um, let me ask you, even as a businessman, did you have two months alike in your early days stages? No, I don't think so. Yeah. I, I think as an entrepreneur you are always walking on a very, very, very, uh, fine line.

Line, you know? Um, and no too, no two days are alike. So not only two months if we are not seeing, you know, things moving around or training days, we have to, we have to constantly pivot and adjust. That's exactly, I see the risk. Yeah. I'm willing to take it. Yeah. It's worth it. It is worth it. I'm def I'm definitely an entre, entre entrepreneur in, in mind.

And the life that I wanna lead is also entrepreneurial. And the way I see it, there's the easy path. The easy path is to get a job and. Static. Yeah. But I think you have that in your back pocket. So that's your [01:12:00] security right now e Exactly. Like if, if you can always come back to that, you can always apply to any job and like push forward and abide by the laws and get, get that minimal and sustainable income.

But can you achieve greatness on that? I don't know. Yeah. And I think building a personal brand is really what it's all about to me. Yes. In today's world, yes. You build a personal brand, everybody somehow, or, or everything that needs to be attracted to you somehow be somehow gets attracted to you. Yeah.

Finds its way to you. I agree. Rather than you going and, you know, taking a thousand meetings now, all these meetings come to you. Come to you. Yeah. True. Yeah. That's why my office is two minutes from my house. I, I, you know, the funny thing is when I ran my business and I ran it like really hard, we had about 50 employees that worked for me at the time.

Mm-hmm. Uh, we had an office in the gallery in Houston and we needed to be in the Galleria because we had all these meetings and moving parts and, you know. Yeah. Uh, um, and the company. After social media, 95% of my business is remote. And, [01:13:00] uh, if people want to come and meet me, they usually just come and meet me in my office.

They're like, oh, where you at? We'll drive out. You know? Yeah. Whatever that is. And so social media has, is so magnetic and so vital and so important, um, that I actually preach to people who are becoming CEOs. Focus less on your business, focus more on being a good CEO on social media. Yes. Um, because that will bring you everything you've ever wanted.

Like, I think as a job description in the future, and like the next five to 10 years, you're actually gonna see, must be able to, to do social media, to deliver content, you know, correctly on social media. And it, it's already happening. Um, I was looking into like industry, like, um, jobs, um, because it's my, my last year, so everybody's looking at jobs and a lot of them require you knowledge about social media, right?

So they're getting ready. Yes. It's already there. As a senior or as a an entry level, it doesn't matter. You need to learn and know how to navigate social [01:14:00] media and monetize it when it comes to marketing. Yeah. Because, you know, entry level, I would say everybody's well versed in social media. People, you know, talk about their experiences and the company and the business, whatever it is, but leadership, yeah.

That's gonna be a thing. You know, everyone's gonna have to be like a mini Elon Musk. That's true. Somewhere, you know? Mm-hmm. Uh, and that's gonna contribute to the success of the business and to the success of the individual. I agree. I totally agree. Yeah. Who are you without marketing? Like Yeah, that's the truth.

There's no personal branding. Literally. Yeah. You. What are, what do you do? All these questions just pop up if we, we don't know who you are, if we don't have a clear vision of what you, who you are and what you're doing here. Yeah. How often do you post and on what platforms? Um, so recently I have not been posting much because I'm trying to push through.

Um, and also we have been looking for an apartment and that was very, very hard. Um, we wanna live downtown Dallas, so it has been very, very hard. But, um, I have not been posting, but I'm really, really interested [01:15:00] in Instagram and TikTok and I feel like I, like, I feel like more connected to the people that are on TikTok.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. TikTok likes more like organic. Organic, yes. Do you think TikTok is getting banned? Um, I really don't think that it's getting banned. Okay. That's my personal opinion, but, um, I do like the initiative that TikTok is making to kind of like help the controversial, um, Conversation about how they're using our information and how they're offering an American staff to deal with that part of the information.

So I don't think it's gonna bend. Hopefully it doesn't get back. Yeah, I know. Cuz that's where everybody gets to move to organic traffic, right? That's true. So we have actually started preparing for the ban. We don't know if it's gonna get banned. Of course. In all honesty, I don't think anybody at this point really knows it's too early.

Uh, but if it does get banned, I don't see all the TikTok ERs going back to YouTube [01:16:00] and I don't see them going back to Instagram. There's gonna have to be some type of a new app, uh, that comes out that then everybody else jumps on. You don't think that like YouTube shorts make up for, so, you know, I, I have two kids, you know, my son is 10 and my son is 12 and my daughter is 11.

And I ask them, I sit down and I have these conversations with them all the time. Mm-hmm. But hey guys, look. Uh, they just got TikTok. My son just got TikTok like a year ago. My daughter just got TikTok like two months ago. Mm-hmm. Um, and they have the, like the parental controls and all that. So I sit, I sit down and have conversations with them cuz they're the future.

Right? Yeah. So when YouTube shorts was not a thing, my son was on YouTube shorts and I was like, what are you doing on YouTube all the time? He's like, dad, I'm on YouTube. Shorts, shorts. And so I was like, oh, we need to start posting more mm-hmm. On YouTube shorts because that's where all the content is going.

Yeah. It wasn't Instagram. Uh, and now when I, when I look at them, I'm like, okay, what happens if you, if TikTok gets banned and they're like, oh, we don't know. It's, it's not like, oh, we'll go back to YouTube [01:17:00] shorts. It's like, oh, we don't know. That means they're looking for, or they're going to be looking for for something new.

For something new. Uh, and there's a bunch of, uh, you know, new apps that have started to trend. Uh, every time TikTok band comes up, you know, they start to trend. Yeah. Uh, and pe PE people jump on 'em and celebrities jump on 'em and whatnot. But, um, You know, as, as a content creator, we really honestly don't really have control over where the people are going.

And we just want our content to be seen. So we've already started prepping, like there's this app, what's it called, the app, Zara Lemonade. Lemonade, yeah. And then there's another app clapper. Mm-hmm. There's these two apps that we've jumped on. I don't know if we're gonna see any success. I don't even know if TikTok is gonna get Ben, but you know, we we're just pushing content out there.

I saw a con, a content, cre, a content creator, um, decide to post all of his TOS on YouTube shorts. Yeah. And this guy jumped from zero follow G zero subscribers to millions in [01:18:00] like a span of two weeks. And how recent was this? Um, very recent. Like really? Yeah. Right before the conversation. Okay. With TikTok.

Well, you were surrounded by these YouTuber. Mm-hmm. You know, with following. Yeah. So like, you could you, you actually have a more maybe direct, uh, View connection. Yeah. Uh, I mean, I think that, um, besides that, I've always been a fan oft of YouTube. YouTube, to be honest. YouTube. Yeah. Um, and I feel like still till today, TikTok can not match like the monetization on YouTube.

YouTube, yeah. Yes. But, um, the exposure that you get from TikTok is also unmatched. Correct? Yeah. I mean, you know, in all honesty, whenever I meet someone who knows me or anything, and I mm-hmm. And I always ask them like, where'd you see me? It's TikTok nine times outta 10. It's like, oh, you're that guy from TikTok.

TikTok, yeah. Talks about warehouses, you know? So yeah, TikTok is kind of where the reaches. Mm-hmm. Uh, and it's where all the people, where all the, all the people are, people are, you know, in the beginning, I remember when I was on [01:19:00] TikTok, everybody was like, oh, it's just kids. Uh, they're just dancing. What are you doing on TikTok?

And now all of a sudden they're all on TikTok Educational Yeah. Stuff. Yeah. And, uh, and, you know, uh, it's just really crazy how, uh, how quickly it's growing and becoming a thing. Are you interested in YouTube at all? Yeah, so I, I, I actually have long form content on YouTube. Mm-hmm. Uh, this podcast goes on YouTube as well.

Mm-hmm. So we have a channel for that. Uh, and then I do, I do, we do post shorts, right. Zara, we do post shorts. Yeah. So we have shorts as well that we do. Do they match like your TikTok success? Yeah. No. Okay. She, no, I don't know. No, she's saying, I dunno. I thought you do. I thought I do fairly well now we don't, we don't do well on YouTube.

It's just more saturated, less people wanna learn about warehouses. Oh. That's probably what it is. Uh, but, uh, but you know, the thing is, for me, I niche down. I niche down a lot. Mm-hmm. And, uh, my, my followers are literally people, like, imagine somebody following [01:20:00] somebody else to learn about warehouses. Like, you know, uh, so yeah, my followers are die hard real estate people who want to learn how to make money.

Yeah. They've been burned or they, they want to, you know, diversify or whatever it is. Uh, so, and that does not even make like 5% of the population. Right? Exactly. So the viewer, it's a very small, uh, percentage, uh, of the population. I had the same problem when I was, um, there was a time during my social media journey where I just was focused on educational information.

Content, yeah. And it was the slowest months. Yeah. Seriously. Like yeah. People, they could get fascinated and stuff, but they don't care enough to follow you. Yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm. Um, and that's kind of what we do. I think all we do is educational. Mm-hmm. And we do a little bit of bloggie stuff here and there, but it's primarily all educational stuff.

Yeah. It's fun times. I, you know, for me right now, it's primarily just to have fun. Yeah. I'm not really looking for, you know, anything. [01:21:00] Yeah. Um, I have everything I need, you know, business runs and it's gonna continue to run. Uh, you get to a point where it's like, okay, now how do I have fun in Yeah. In life, you know?

And so this is, this is kind of what that looks like. And. I think your, uh, what you are going for is sim very similar from that may to may time point because you've put in, I think, so much effort into life Yes. In general, where you're like, okay, you know what, what can I do? And then we'll worry about everything else.

Yeah. Yes. I agree. I agree. I feel like also like sometimes the traditional path like pulls us so much that, um, we kind of dissociate from the things that we love. Yeah. And it's, it's good to go back to those things. So speaking about that, does your family know any of this TikTok, uh, or social media stuff?

Oh, yeah. Or aspiration? Yeah. Mm-hmm. And, and what do they think of it? Well, um, I think that my family is supportive in nature and they're all business minded. Okay. So like it. Everybody, even like the, the [01:22:00] engineers in our family, they don't use their engineering degrees or any of that. Um, so they just know that at some point I'm gonna have a business.

Right. So they get it. Yes. Uh, my mom, however, was like, what? You should be a professor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I think, I'm trying to remember when I told my mom no, I had already told my, she didn't, she didn't really, she was like, yeah, just do whatever you want at this point. You know, you're a success. Speak volume.

Right. Uh, well it was really good talking to you, by the way. You're a pro. I can't wait for you to start your own podcast. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I'm hear what? And hear what you have to say. I'm sure it's gonna, you're gonna kill it. You're absolutely gonna. Gosh, it was really good.

Thank you for being here. Thank you guys for listening. Thank you for having me. Thank you for everyone. Really an amazing team. It was good having you. Thank you once again. Thank you.