Alaska Uncovered Podcast
Welcome to the Alaska Uncovered Podcast with your host, Jennie Thwing Flaming. Jennie brings you accurate, helpful and entertaining information about Alaska Travel and Life in Alaska. Guests include Alaska travel experts and Alaska business owners, guides and interesting Alaskans. Jennie is a born and raised Seattleite, a former Alaskan and spends several weeks in Alaska each year. She’s an experienced guide and the Founder of the Alaska and Washington travel website, Top Left Adventures. Jennie is joined by occasional co-host, Jay Flaming, her husband for more than 20 years. Jennie and Jay met working in tourism in Skagway, Alaska and also lived in Juneau and Fairbanks together. Jay lived in Fairbanks for 8 years before meeting Jennie in Skagway and grew up in Yellowstone National Park.
Alaska Uncovered Podcast
Best things to do in Anchorage with Tom Plawman
Tom Plawman, a long time resident of Anchorage and life long adventurer, joins Jennie and Jay to talk about fun things to do in Anchorage for a short visit of a few hours or lots of wonderful day trips for those who are spending more time in town.
Support us on Patreon as a free or paid subscriber
Resources for places Tom mentioned:
26 Glaciers cruise in Whittier
Kenai Fjords National Park (Seward)
Get Jennie’s Alaska Travel planners and pre made itineraries
Book a trip planning session with Jennie
Get Jennie’s weekly Alaska Travel tips in your inbox
Music credits: Largo Montebello, by Domenico Mannelli, CC.
Have you got questions about adventures and things to do and Anchorage? We've got answers Welcome to the Alaska uncovered podcast with me your host, Jennie Flaming, my occasional co host and full time husband Jay and I bring you accurate, helpful and entertaining information about Alaska travel and life in Alaska. Our guest today is Tom Plawman. Tom has lived in Anchorage since 1984. He's a retired geologist, a patroller with the anchorage nordic ski patrol, and is active in search and rescue. He is a lifelong adventurer who loves the outdoors and loves Alaska. Tom, welcome to Alaska uncovered. Thank you for being here.
Unknown:Yeah. I'm glad to be here. So it's kind of kind of interesting to do this. So yeah. Fun.
Jennie Flaming:Yeah. It's really fun having you. So we like. Yeah, we like to start all of our in our interviews with the question of how did you get to Alaska? And I know you've been there a long time. So tell us a little bit about how you got to Anchorage? Sure.
Unknown:Yeah, well, I was I'm a geologist, geophysicist by training. And I was working in the oil industry. I was in Denver. My first first real job out of grad school. And I, you know, I grew up in Oregon, did all sorts of you know, hiking, climbing, backpacking and whatnot. And so when the opportunity moved to Anchorage, a paid move to Anchorage. That was kind of a no brainer for me. So I moved here and read here for the most part ever since I left the state for a couple of years in the late 90s. The road other job related thing, but the opportunity to come back to Anchorage came up bad. Hit Oh, again, that was sort of a no brainer for me. So anyway, that's, that's my story. Love it.
R. Jay F:I think, Tom, you're one of the longest running anchorage residents and I know,
Unknown:ah, oh, well, it could be Yeah, it's it doesn't seem like it's been that long until I actually sit down and think about it and edit that I realize it has been a long time. But you know, Anchorage is the kind of place that when people move here, they generally fall into two groups. There's folks who love it, and they never want to leave. And that was kind of where I fail, I guess. And then there's some other folks who for a variety of reasons, good reasons, in many cases, but inside athis is just a little too far from from family and whatnot. And yeah, so they they don't hang around too long. So yeah, I
Jennie Flaming:think that's really true. So one of the things that we've talked about is, how many visitors to Alaska spend at least some time in Anchorage at some point on their trip. And so I'm really excited to hear today, your thoughts about how people can best spend their time in Anchorage, especially if they want to get outside. So let's start with people who have just a few hours, let's say maybe they're checking out of their hotel and they have a flight later in the day, and they have a few hours to explore. Or maybe getting off a cruise ship and getting into Anchorage and have a few hours before their flight. What are some things that folks can do that are great things for a short amount of time like that? Yeah, you
Unknown:know, Anchorage is Anchorage is kind of a gateway. I just probably not very many people that go to Alaska, just to go to Anchorage. But most of the people who who come to Alaska will at least pass through Anchorage. And actually there's quite a lot to do I mean, it's it's really worth I think working in an extra day or two in and around anchorage because there's actually quite a lot of fun stuff to do. The first thing I would do would be just get some information and and you're on I've got to kind of just for simplicity assume I've staggered we'll start from downtown, you know, you're downtown Anchorage, right? Yeah, that sounds good. You got off, got off the plane, you're gonna take the train up to that alley in Fairbanks or whatever. So right downtown, there are two, two really good sources of of information to just kind of get your bearings. The first one is the public lands Information Center. It's in the old courthouse building on Fourth Avenue. It's really a great spot they have, they have some displays and interpretive things. And it's a it's a sort of a joint joint agency operation. I went down there the other day, I was going to see if they had any, or see what's changed since the last time I'd been in there. But unfortunately, they were spending a couple days doing some beginning of season or preseason training for their staff. So it was it was able to get in there. But I've been at our before and it's I highly recommend it. It's
Jennie Flaming:a great place. I totally agree with you about that. Yeah, and I would
Unknown:talk a little more about some wildlife safety aspects a little later, but that would be a good place. I know they have some pamphlets and displays and things so just kind of take a few minutes and take a look at that stuff. The one one cut a and decided to leave your pocket knife or a Leatherman or whatever somewhere else because it is in the it's it's the old courthouse, but it's still a an in use federal courthouse building, so you have to go through security screening, so you can't make a knife or anything like that. And with you, but other than that, that's that's I would definitely hit that would be one of the first places I would stop. The other. The other place is the which I know you've familiar with the log cabin Visitors Center, which is actually it's sort of diagonal across the same intersection almost with the other one. And that's, that's a great place for particularly for city stuff, you know, restaurants, museums, they have some free maps you can get there and, and whatnot. So that's also well worth a little stop it actually that's nice about that as they have a lot of stuff. Not just Anchorage, but statewide so you can pick up some information for maybe some of the later part of your trip. Yeah, just just arriving in Anchorage.
Jennie Flaming:And if you're a fan of those, like National Park Service maps and pamphlets, that's a great the public lands Information Center is a great place to collective view. Yeah,
Unknown:they they've got a lot of good stuff, I think was one of the things I wanted to check and I wasn't able to but I think you can actually make your Denali bus reservations right there. Oh, cool. I didn't. I wish I could verify that because that's my memory, but I hadn't been in there for a couple of years. So I don't know if that's still the case or not.
R. Jay F:The laptop your your tip about the pocket knife reminds me that when I was in the regional office, also in a federal building, the security guards every afternoon would go out and collect all the pocket knives that people had hidden in the flowerpots. Yeah, yeah, for sure. was almost they said there was one almost every day. Yeah, yeah.
Unknown:So so that would that would be something then another thing, which I haven't actually done it. It's one of those things where you're a local, you know, do these sorts of things, but there's the red trolley that goes around. Yeah, and I've heard I haven't done it myself, but I've talked to folks and they do a pretty good job apparently. Just it's a good way to just kind of get a Oh, get a little tour of the city. Kind of get your bearings. take you around all the high spots. Stay Stay A stop and you can get out and take pictures and whatnot. And that actually, I think they pick up right in front of the log cabin visitors center if I correctly so that would be a good one. Other stuff again, just you know, kind of in the couple hours thing. The there's anchorage Museum, which is very good. There is the Alaska Native Heritage Center, which would probably have to take a cab or Uber out there, but it's not real far. That's out kind of on the north end of town. Lots of good stuff there. And I understand they've actually almost doubled their collection of of artifacts and stuff. There was another small museum that had Rasmussen's collection that used to be at Wow, he was a banker and and by the way, get grass too far. But anyway, that that little museum closed during COVID And apparently they opted to transfer all or almost all of their collections to the Native Heritage Center. I have not been out there to see all the new stuff I had been to that other small museum and there's some pretty interesting native artifacts from all over the state artwork and lots of lots of cool stuff of course there's there's more art galleries and souvenir shops downtown than I could possibly remember. No shortage of those. I get I the one place I would recommend people check out if they can just because most people don't know about it, the it's the gift shop or actually I think you call it the craft shop at the Alaska Native Medical Center at anmc
Jennie Flaming:That's a great tip. Yeah, I
Unknown:have really some really good stuff in there. The thing I like about it is you know that the number one that is authentic and number two that the artist is getting a fair price for their work which may may or may not be the case. Other places. There are kind of limited hours there I think Monday or Monday through Thursday like 11 to two I think so. But if you could get over there oh and I actually have a lot of stuff that's not for sale that's on display throughout the hospital in some of the main corridors and stairwells and stuff they have some pretty amazing art pieces and they have a I think a little handout that they'll give you that tells you where where in the complex you can see that stuff Yeah,
Jennie Flaming:it's kind of like a museum inside a hospital
Unknown:Yeah, yeah. Anyway, I you know, I rarely if ever see that ever mentioned in any of the touristy things and yeah,
Jennie Flaming:that's a good tip. Yeah, shout
Unknown:out to that then you know if you want to get a little bit of exercise and and I'm still kind of thinking you only have a few hours I would recommend the Anchorage. That was the Tony Knowles coastal trail. Which, you know, starts right downtown. There are a number of places you can get on it. You can walk, be easy walk down to Westchester lagoon, there's some birding and stuff down there. There's actually little salmon run in I think there's actually two species that come into the lagoon and Chester Creek and they have a a on the part of the there's a little boardwalk thing that you can go and you know, if you're there at the right time, you can actually see the fish coming in. So that that'd be interesting, or just walk on further out the coastal trail starting from downtown and going out the coastal trail is the Lightspeed planet walk which was it's kind of a clever thing it was actually started by a high school student came up with the idea and kind of researched it and is so starting right downtown. It's like 15 G I think's right by the performing arts center is the sun and then it's set up so that at a leisurely walk I think they figure about two miles an hour you know, it's sort of calibrated to the amount of time it takes light from the Sun to reach the various planets so from the sun it's about an eight minute walk easy walk to the earth and and Gulf going out the coastal trail you go to the various other planets and at each one there's a kind of a nice little display you know, information. So it's it's it's kind of a cool thing to just give people a sense of the of the scale of the solar system because if you're gonna go all the way to Pluto, which was still a planet when this thing was
Jennie Flaming:back in the day when when Pluto
Unknown:right now, but I I take a grandfathered Pluto in on the anyway. That's about a five hour walk because it's about 10 miles out to Kincaid park if you better better to rent a bike and travel at lightspeed if you are worried if you want to go out to Pluto, but
R. Jay F:you just explained a great mystery to me because we've biked used to ride a tandem from downtown out to Kincaid Park sometimes when we would go to Anchorage. I had no idea. I never actually read any of the info. I was just really confused why there was something about plan o or plan. Oh, Pluto word. Right, right. Why is there a sign about Neptune here?
Unknown:Yeah, yeah. You know, if you had, if you had a couple hours, you could probably get out to Saturn, which is out by literary Park, kind of not too far from where I live. Like I said, if you're if you want to get beyond Saturn, you might want to think about riding a bike. Or if you're hardcore runner, maybe I guess,
R. Jay F:in any way that the rental places in downtown right next to the trail.
Unknown:Yes, yeah. So that's there, at least two that are right, where you would, right within a block of where you would get on the coastal trail. And then there's several others around town. What are the things you could pick up at one of these information places, hopefully, there's a new anchorage bike trails map. It's got a lot of information on it. And it actually has a list of all the bike shops and stuff in town. So there are places the red bikes or places it'll take you on. On a guided tours, we have a wonderful network of mountain bike trails. That's probably getting more beyond the couple our visit thing, but yes, I will,
Jennie Flaming:I am going to just say that renting a bike is a great way to be able to go further on the coastal trail. And that's something Jay and I have done and Jay and I have actually rented a tandem bike from Pablo, and written like out to the airport, which is a super cool and super cool ride. And there are a little bit of hills, but for the most part, it's pretty flat. Yeah.
Unknown:I'll talk a little bit more about that in a second. Maybe this is a good point to kind of segue and talk a little bit about safety stuff because that's
Jennie Flaming:a good idea. When
Unknown:really, you know you can encounter large wildlife by that I'm referring to moose or bears, two kinds of bears, black bears and and brown bears. Really anywhere in Anchorage, not real likely right downtown, but it has been known to happen I used to work in well what's now the Conoco Phillips building and we was arco building at the time. And what time this was in the winter, we were looking out of the office windows, and there were two young bull moose down on the park strip. Tried to Butthead, which was kind of like some major movie and all right, downtown. They kind of look like, I remember clearly they, they, they were here to be young bulls and those I got to kind of the sads. They were like, well, I guess this is what we're supposed to do. You know, they're kind of they went, they did it anyway. So, you know, I hope you would look at some of the information that's out there. There's pamphlets and things everywhere around about wildlife safety, but two key things are number one is just situational awareness. You know, don't don't get so absorbed in to taking selfies or something that you're that you're, you know, not aware of what you need an animal. Yeah. Number two is common sense giving them lots of room. And, you know, occasionally I've had cases where there's been a while I give you one example, I was out a couple of years ago rode out out to Kincaid and turned around and came back and just Oh, not far after I had left Kincaid park. There were three black bears. Right beside the trail. I mean, like, within a yard of the trail, munching grass, and yellow there being good bears and munching grass, but there was no way to go by Yeah, going way closer than you want to be. And so I sort of stopped and waited and a bunch of other people came down and stopped that we all kind of waited and then eventually, the bears moved off the trail far enough that we felt like we could pedal on by so you have to do that sometimes. situations to be very wary of would be a n a mama with a baby, whether it's a moose or bear just back off and give them plenty of room. And or if you if you get Eddie hint that there may be a kill there that might be older or whatever. Get the hell away from there because a bear if a bear has has killed a moose and you know typically it'd be either an old, old sick moose or, or a young cab. They will guard that kill and stay there for several days. And they will definitely protect it and probably try to add you to the cache. Yes. So that that actually, we had about a week ago, one of the side trails that Kincaid was closed, there was a moose kill there with a bear on it. And that's gone now. So
Jennie Flaming:that's a really important safety thing that you mentioned, Tom is like, if you encounter a trail closure, um, you know, it's really like you said, it's really important to stay out of that area because it may be because of wildlife activity, even if it's a city park in Anchorage. So I just want to double down on that point that like if you see a closed trail, it's probably for a good reason. And it's good to stay away from that area. It's really important. Yeah,
Unknown:the other the other kind of quick, quick things, particularly with bears is make lots of noise and kind of keep your group together. You know, statistically the vast majority of their balling is are people by themselves. And and two or more people, or two people is very uncommon and more than two is exceedingly rare to almost unheard of. Now, that means that the bear has to see you all when it sees you. So if you're, you know, if your group is you know, if you're 50 yards ahead of the rest of your group, you're by yourself effectively so you don't have to be you know, working hand in hand but keep your group together make lots you know, if you get into a brushy area where you can't see you know, Isla if I'm if I'm particularly if I'm by myself and I'm going through some areas of poor visibility I'll I'll do my blues singer routine, which just just about guarantees I won't see any wildlife whatsoever but anyway, so the other safety thing. Anyway, I don't want to get too hung up on that. Oh, yeah, one more thing. You know, think about acquiring bear spray. I know there is a problem that it's kind of expensive and you know, people may not want to spend 50 bucks for bear spray that you can't take it home with you. You can't take it on airplane or anything that if you're going to be doing much hiking and stuff, you know, I would maybe think of it in terms of you know, well okay, I'm How much am I spending on this whole trip, you know, right. And the other thing is, check out Costco cuz I was looking I was pricing bear spray at REI the other day and then my wife picked up a two pack. I think it has holsters to at Costco for hardly more than you pay for one canister at REI, right? Yeah,
Jennie Flaming:Costco is a great place to get it. Yeah. The Costco has it too. Yeah. The other is either J or Tom can either one of you can you just briefly explain to everyone what bear spray is?
Unknown:Oh yeah, yeah, it's because I don't want
Jennie Flaming:people to think it's like a bear repellent you know, like you put it on like bug spray that's fine. You don't put it off thing
Unknown:No, no it's it's a it's basically pepper spray. The same sort of thing that people buy for self defense only these are big canisters very powerful. And the idea is if a bear is charging you you basically put this cloud of nasty stuff in front of it and it is nasty i I've gotten a whiff of it a couple of times true not not not spraying bears I've never at all the time I've been on Alaska I've never been in a situation where I needed bear spray I've been I've seen bears I haven't I carry it but anyway yeah, it's it's it buys water. It's just it's really was meant to be nasty stuff. That's the whole
R. Jay F:idea. The incapacitating for it
Unknown:is yeah, it is it is there's been times I've the times I've gotten a whiff with have been it's a funny story. I was sort of hiking with a friend of ours who was visiting who was who was not familiar with bear spray. So I sort of like okay you know, here's how here's how you do it and handed it to them to put on their belt properly managed to disengage the safety at Oh no. This but well, it's a dear friend neither what I don't want to I would say the border but it was it was a little just a little accidental. Tidy, squirt. And but the wind was sort of blowing it back out us hit us like Oh, God. Anyway, the other safety thing I don't want to get too hung up on on bears. Because, you know, like I said in all these years I've been on Alaska. I've never been charged by a bear. I've never had to use bear spray. It's really pretty uncommon really to have an issue but it does happen. The other safety issue is as you go out the coastal trail is Is the mud flats and there are a couple actually cut on at high tide a couple of nice little beaches on your way out to Kincaid at a couple spots there nice little sandy beaches that are perfectly safe to go on those at low tide, you realize that beach is just a kind of a thin little ribbon along the shore. And then there's this kind of gray mud flats that depending on where you're at, and then the tide stage hit literally go for miles out from you do not go out on the mudflats. You wouldn't want to anyway because it's terribly messy and as stuff as hard to get off and I've our dog has run out there a few times. And that's not a not a happy, happy thing. But in places that mud is is actually kind of like quicksand. And you can get stuck in it. And it's almost impossible to extricate yourself. And of course, the only reason you're able to walk in a mud flats is because it's low tide. But then you get stuck and the tide comes back in. The fire departments have developed some tools and techniques to extricate people. But that only works if they get there in times. Couple of weeks ago, the Girdwood volunteer fire department rescued someone down by 20 mile river who'd gotten stuck. That was a happy ending. And then just a few days ago, actually, I think last Sunday at home, which is right across turning in arms. A gentleman had a visitor to the state got stuck in the mud. Problem is it's Abbado. That hour give or take for Girdwood fire to get home and by the time they got out there the tide had come in and the man drowned. So there's no reason to go out on a bed flats don't go out on a mud flats. Now, Nuff said that's really important advice. So anyway, I didn't I didn't want to get into a big big rant about that but that's just just something to be aware of.
R. Jay F:No and and a pointless way to get hurt.
Unknown:Yeah, and well, like I said, even you know, a lot of the mud flats are actually solid enough to walk on the problem is you can't really tell by looking at it and you know, right. Once you're in it, you're you're edit like I said if you get in well you know you try to lift one foot out and that just causes the other leg to sink in deeper and so anyway, the
R. Jay F:other thing about it is that that area the tide moves so much faster than people are accustomed to Yes, almost anywhere else in the in the world the tide moves so fast. The Internet actually has a board tied sometimes which looks like a just like a wave coming in and there's like a couple of feet of water behind it that wasn't there in front of it which is Yeah,
Unknown:yeah, I mentioned that a little bit later on when we get into kind of maybe longer outings anyway yeah, so then you know moving up to maybe you know if you have say you got a half day and still thinking in terms of without a car where we talked about renting a bike and and going out the coastal trail just some some interesting spots along the coastal trail. I mentioned there's there's some nice what I mentioned the planet walk little beach by luminary park that's kind of nice. Earthquake Park is pretty fascinating. I'm you know, I'm a geologist geophysicist by by training and interest and is pretty fascinating. That is where a whole neighborhood basically during the 64 earthquake was a triggered a big landslide and well, not the whole neighborhood but a significant part of it was involved in a in this big landslide. That was where quite a number of the fatalities in Anchorage from the 64 quake were. So if you ride out, you know, a walk or ride out to earthquake Park, there's, there's some interpretive displays out there that are, they're kind of interesting, there's also a little side trail out there called inside the slide. And it's, you know, if you go where you're kind of going pedaling along the coast and then the trail takes kind of a hard left away from the water. And, and makes eventually makes a kind of a hard right turn and then goes on up to the actual the displays I was just talking about, right, we're at that second turn, there's a little there's a small sign there. And there's this nice little path, it's not more than about a half a mile walk that you can take that actually really kind of gets you into the into the into the guts of the of the slide I guess you'd say they're they're a little periodically they're a little signs explaining you know when feature and other so that's kind of interesting I would warn people number one that trail and any of the other or most of the other little side trails out there are going to be potentially be quite muddy and and the other thing is they can also be quite buggy
Jennie Flaming:you know, Tom, I was just thinking about some bugs there in earthquake Park. And I was gonna say I was gonna mention that if you didn't it there's Yeah, it can be really buggy well
Unknown:and and this year, you know, we had it we've had a big snow year and we've had a late spring and so there's a lot more I mean, there's always standing water it's kind of the nature of these landslides that they're leave lots of little ponds and puddles on the surface of them, so there's always some standing water out there which is why earthquake park can be pretty buggy but this year might be a banner year for that so if you're it's not too bad you know if you're cruising through on a bike on the paved trail on the coastal trail, but if you're going to explore around much out there, I would highly recommend long pants long sleeves and take some bug dough with you. For sure. Because you'll probably want it Yeah, anyway so earthquake Park. Then you can go on out beyond their point we're ons off there's a couple of little hills as one kind of short steep one right at earthquake Tarik and then there's a couple of somewhat longer not quite as steep and little longer hills as you go up to runs off. But you know, if your people are experienced bike riders are not that big a deal. They're short enough if you're you know, you're just walk the bike up. So if you had to. So then out out to Kincaid Park is about that 10 mile 10 to 11 miles from from downtown. I should mention the the mileage signs on the coastal trail. Were Reagan a couple of years ago, and originally miles zero was down at Westchester lagoon. And that left a little part of the trail that went back towards downtown it was kind of part of the coastal trail but it really wasn't in the miles if if you understand what I'm saying so right. So they they adjusted that. So it's about a mile difference. See it the signage that's there now. Is is good, but if you pick up some publications and things some of them may may still have the old mileposts I guess I noticed actually I was looking for just a mileage chart about the what I pulled up off the city's website still has the old mile post. They haven't updated. That's not a distance. haven't changed it's just where they start from
Jennie Flaming:yeah they started measuring it different yeah
Unknown:so so you know if you see something that says we're Kincaid is is at you know mile nine point something you know now it's like mile 10.9 or seven or something now anyway, those Kincaid Park would be if you rode all the way out to the end of the coastal trail. Kincaid Park is an old Nike missile battery actually, from the Cold War and facilities out there are are most of them are some of the old missile launching bunkers, which is kind of interesting, but it may explain because I think you might get out there and say well, these are odd buildings, you know, they were they were built for a different purpose than they're now being used for let's put it that way. Right. I think there's a couple small little displays out there that you know, it's not a it's not a big Nike interpretive site or anything but that there is that aspect of it. And there's all kinds of wintertime we have a world class cross country ski area out there and since then, they've added a network of bike trails that are kind of woven in amongst the ski trails so these are would be you know, mountain bike in the summer Fat Tire or mountain bike in the winter trails with you most most of them you're fine to walk on I think a couple of them made may have there were there's like a fast downhill they may have a sign saying you maybe know how to walk here because people come zooming down really fast but anyway what are my favorite rides and I you kind of mentioned a little bit earlier is to ride around Lake hood. And so starting from earthquake Park, it's Abbado seven and a half mile ride there there's a bunch of variations so it could be a little more a little less depending exactly how you went but they'll pass earthquake Park two postmark drive there's a kind of a big parking area and stuff there and then you ride down postmark which takes you right along anchorage International Airport and then cut over at what's it called Lake hood street I should say I'll send you a a track of that but anyway, I'll just discuss it really briefly but you just go out to follow up postmark hanging left on Lake could drive and that takes you over to the lake so the just geographically there's the International Airport like hood and then there's which is the seaplane floatplane base and and on the other side of a could is another runway, which is CLA could airstrip which small, small aircraft. The cool thing about doing the ride around the lake is there's some neat stops you can stop at the Aviation Museum which is you know if you're into airplanes that's that's worth the stop if it's a nice day to the lake I think it's called lakefront hotel now Yes,
Jennie Flaming:dad he names about Yeah, it's the lakefront Yeah,
Unknown:it's shaped several times and 30 or so years I've lived in a crate so I was what I call it the millennium which is what it was when I first moved here
Jennie Flaming:Oh okay. I don't anyway, when it was the Millennium
Unknown:yeah at the at the hotel they have their restaurant there has like a little outdoor patio, dining area on the side on the lake side of the hotel, so it makes a really nice ride to you get halfway around the lake stop to have lunch, you know, your your favorite beverage and relax a bit and then continue your ride and you know while you're having lunch, you could watch the float planes.
Jennie Flaming:That is really cool. Yeah, every great way to spend an afternoon or a day, if you
Unknown:go on around the lake and and this is one of the other things, it's, well, I like it for several reasons. Number one in the summertime, there's a lot of activity over there. There's planes coming and going all the time, people loading and unloading for all sorts of trips to all sorts of cool places. And because of the layout, part of the road that you're riding along is, is also taxiway for aircraft. And so I have a, I have a picture, somewhere I have to dig it out of I got off my bike. So it's a picture of my bike, and airplane, crossing the road, and a sign that says, yield to aircraft.
Jennie Flaming:There's several places on trails in Anchorage like that, where I can't remember there's one that I've skied on where you like ski across a runway. I can't remember where that is, but it's somewhere in town. Yeah, when you see a stop sign that says yield to planes it's like a really good idea to stop it like actually yield to play
Unknown:well yeah, it's usually a good good idea to stop at stop signs and look both ways anyway. Checking only if there's a propeller driven airplane that's crossing for sure. So anyway, that's that's have fun ride interesting ride that little you take a little side trip off of that there's a I can't remember what it's called but there's a little side road that runs out on a kind of a peninsula and at the end of it is the what is it Alaska airman's? sociation clubhouse are something which you know, they're it's a private facility you can't really go in but it's on a little point and there's kind of a dock that goes around it and and they don't seem to mind if you get out and walk around and it's the perfect spot because you can see a really a big portion of the lake because it's kind of depends on the wind which which part of the lake they're taking off and landing on and but from there you can usually see whatever's going on you probably got a pretty decent view of it so anyway, that's that's kind of a kind of a fun ride let's see yeah, so then you know that's all stuff you can do. Even if you don't have a car Oh, yeah, the other thing I was gonna mention hike up flat top and flat that's a good one. Yeah, it's is the most climb mountain in Alaska it's you know, you could pick it out from most parts of town because it's flat on top. It had you know, amazingly enough and there's a shuttle that runs from downtown and takes you up to flat top and then you can go hike I think they hang around up there for four hours or so something like that. I'd never get it as a local I you know, I just drive my own car up there. I don't Yep.
Jennie Flaming:option though, for folks who don't have a car and want to go on a hike like that's the way to go. Is that shuttle to flat top for sure. Yeah.
Unknown:And that's it. So flat top, the the trailhead there is a place called Glen Alps. And that's kind of a real hub of trails around so besides having one of the most popular hikes starting there, there's a bunch of other hikes. It's also just about the best place to get up high and get kind of an overview of the city. So you know, when we have visitors, quite often you get a will if it's a nice day, you know, if we have family visiting or something, we'll pick them up at the airport and and drive up the flat top and just get a cut to get an overview of the of the city. It all fits. If it's clear, you can see that alley and, and foraker and all the big girl Alaska Range peaks
Jennie Flaming:even if you don't do the hike, the view is still the trailhead. Yeah,
Unknown:well, it's a nice it's you know, if you have if you have folks in your group who are say you know, a little bit mobility challenged that's nice because the view spot is, oh gosh, it's can't be more than a couple 100 yards from where you park and I think it's a fully handicap accessible trail up to that new spot. Now there's a couple of trails out and one of them I think is you know, you could get up there even with a wheelchair or something like that. Great view. There's some other shorter hikes if you're not up for doing flat top, you can go up blueberry hill, which is well, it's it's on the it's part of the flat top trail, but it's, you know, shorter, less less strenuous, but very nice, nice view from the from the top of blueberry hill and probably just about anyone could hike up there. The hike up flat top from that side. The very last part at the top is it's there's a little bit of a rock scramble, and some very well, let's say there's a couple of spots where you probably wouldn't want to trip over your shoelace. Yeah, good get hurt. So I guess what I'm saying is, most people don't have a problem with it. Some folks who are a little more sensitive to heights and stuff, find it a little bit intimidating. But, but the good thing is you don't have to go all the way to the very top to get most of the you know, the view and everything else. Yeah. There's the other nice thing about taking the shuttle up there is because this is such a Cuzco and Alps is such a trail hub. It's sometimes hard on a nice afternoon, particularly on a weekend. It's very hard to find a parking spot. But if you take the shuttle that's kind of not your problem. That's the shuttle guys. job to worry about that. So that option, there's another trail up flat top that goes up what most people refer to it as the backside of flat top. I think the official name is the Sunnyside trail that starts from a totally different trailhead, I probably need a car to get there. The nice thing about that one is it's it's a new trail, it's it's very well graded, there's no no exposure or anything on that trail at all. So you know, folks who may be not a little bit uncut, maybe a little bit uncomfortable with the traditional trail up flat top can go go up that way. I mentioned a little bit maybe about trails and Alaska to many of our trails are, you know, started out is you know, game trails or, or, you know, some of the old trappers and prospectors and quite a few of the original trails are this basically kind of go straight up the hill. Which wasn't so bad when there weren't very many people doing doing it. But as they become more popular, those routes tend to be kind of a muddy, muddy shoot sometimes. And so the good news is we're we're slowly getting a lot of our more popular trails are getting kind of upgraded and you'll see that well like at GLAAD Alps, if you just look up towards flat top you can see where what are the old original roots kind of went straight up the hill and it's just this kind of a scar that runs down down the hill. So if you're on one of the trails, I mean good trail etiquette anywhere is don't cut switchbacks but particularly you know, we're around here we're trying to get our trail Ella's improved. And so if it's, if somebody's gone to the trouble to, to put a nice switchbacks instead of the straight up the hill route, stay on the trail on the good trail. So, anyway,
Jennie Flaming:that is really good advice that will make it more fun to well, we're gonna take a short break. And when we come back, we're going to hear a little more from Tom about what to do if you have a little more time. Hello,
Unknown:everyone. We're the guys behind the mics on drinking and talking animals. I'm Bob. I'm Mark. I'm George. If you're an adventurous drinker such as ourselves, and you're tired of choosing what you want to drink while learning about animals. Then why not just sit back pop in your earbuds and let us take you on an adventure. What would you drink if we were going to talk about wild turkeys mark? Wild Turkey Rare Breed barrel proof bourbon Of course. Okay, that one was easy. What would you drink if we talked about crab eating macaques? George? When I when I think of macaque I think ginger beer you I wouldn't do that think everyone gets where we're going at this point. And we hope you'll join us every Saturday morning for a couple of laughs couple of drinks and a handful of snacks. You can find us at the chatter network.com and most major podcast platforms. Are we ever going to talk about pandas George gotta open up and it's not that I hate pandas. I hate what they become.
Jennie Flaming:Okay, we are back with Tom Plowman long term anchorage resident at search and rescue volunteer geologist outdoor enthusiast and we are talking about fun things for visitors to do in Anchorage from a locals perspective. So time um, what about so mostly we've talked so far about people who have kind of a short time maybe a day or part of a day in Anchorage? What about people who have more time more time to maybe get out of town or do a hike or go other places what are some of your go to suggestions for for visitors who have a little more time?
Unknown:Yeah, sure. Well, yeah, I already mentioned the the back side or sunny side of flat tops. I really recommend that trail. The another place well, particularly if people are interested in birding would be Potter's Marsh which is just down at the south end of town. Boardwalk down down there. Which actually i i You know, I hadn't actually been on the boardwalk and I couldn't tell you how many years I've been I've driven by there hundreds of times because it's kind of on the way to other places. They've expanded it so there's now about a a full mile of boardwalk there. Since two parts a great place for birding it's it's one of the must stops you will always see folks with huge camera lenses and whatnot down there. There's a little salmon run that comes in there and again so depending on when you're there you might see the see the salmon coming into spawn another good trail. The turn again, trail runs, basically follows above the highway along a good portion, turning it arm and there's there's kind of three segments the part I'd recommend would be the middle segment. Bikes just a nice a nice hike. You if you could do it with a car seat, I'll put a card either end but assuming people only have a one, one vehicle, do it as an out and back and what I would do is go to Rainbow and pick up the trail there. It's a very pretty kind of pretty Valley you get you're away from the highway enough that you're not really conscious of that. And there's quite a lot of variety on that stretch. Eagle River nature center out Eagle River Road. There's a whole network of trails out there and that's actually one end of the the crow paths trail which would be a backpack if folks are start from over near Girdwood and then comes out by you river. So that's one. You know, there's there's innumerable hikes. You know, as long as I've lived here, there's still a whole lot a whole lot of hikes I have not done so, you know, there, there are a number of good hiking books around you know, so folks are going to be in Anchorage for for a while, they may want to pick one of those up or, you know, or go peruse it at a bookstore or something. Yeah.
Jennie Flaming:South hiking south central Alaska book that's published by the mountaineers. That's a great one. Well,
Unknown:you're talking are you talking about the new 55 ways? Or what are the
Jennie Flaming:the one that I'm have is just called hiking south central Alaska?
Unknown:Oh, it's kind of a little smallish book.
Jennie Flaming:Yeah, yeah. Yeah,
Unknown:there's, yeah, there's that one, the 55 ways which is for a long time, that was the only hiking guide around and it went through two or three editions. The we've actually gotten to know the principal author that Helen Niederhauser and she's in her 80s. Now her, her son and granddaughter took up the took up the cause and have come out with a brand new edition. Oh, that's cool. That has a lot of longer trips. Not just around anchorage with the whole south central area, but the whole kind of weekend. You know, range let's say you would say within 100 miles or so of Anchorage. That's that's a really good book. So there are there are a bunch of them and then there are a lot of the well like Chugach State Park has some trail guides that are available to download online I can certainly send you a link for that so that's that's a good
Jennie Flaming:that would be awesome. We can put that in the show notes that would be a great resource but
Unknown:yeah so yeah, they're just all kinds of hikes then the other thing to do and not just hikes but kind of driving things and stuff it would be to drive down turning in our arm. Jay mentioned the bore tide and people actually search the word tide. It's I've had lately the what is it this kite surfing has become pretty popular and target arm mainly because it's often windy there. So that's that's kind of interesting. Do stay off the mudflats. The surfers and stuff kind of well, they generally find a way to paddle out there without walking on them. But I think do not do not walk into mud flats. Did I mentioned that already?
Jennie Flaming:And twice, yes. But it's a really important safety test. Like an obvious one. So it's really
Unknown:important. You know. So when you get to Girdwood, there's the take a look right when you're about when you get to the to the turn off from the main highway off the Seward highway into Girdwood look out toward to ride out towards the inlet and you'll see a bunch of old dead white trees out there. And that's what people refer to as a ghost forest and that actually was a result of the 64 earthquake. Some areas around were uplifted and some areas for example along Turnagain Arm the the ground actually dropped on Turnagain Arm in places actually dropped I think as much as two meters so the saltwater kind of encroached and into the roots of these spruce trees and killed them so you'll see you'll see ghosts for us all all around cookie unleaded and Prince William Sound and what that happens to be one that's I guess one of the easier closer ones to see from Anchorage go into Girdwood you can take the take the train if it's a nice day take the tram up to the top of the of the ski area or up up to the doesn't go to the very tippy top. But anyway, there's a restaurant up there I've not I've not eaten at that restaurant. I'm sure it's probably pretty good. I know it's expensive. Or if you're looking for a good conditioning hike, that's also easy on the knees, which usually is not the case. Because most of the time if you hike up something you have to hike back down at They only charge for the tram, they only charge you when you're up for the ride up. So there's a The North Face Trail, which goes up the north face of of Alyeska ski resort, that's a very long, pretty gnarly double black diamond ski run in the wintertime. There's a hiking trail that goes up and it's quite steep gains about 2000 feet in two miles so it's pretty sustained. And so you can hike up get a good workout the upper part of that trail particularly once you get above the the trees and all others and stuff is very, very well the whole thing is pleasant, but it's you've nice views and stuff up there. And then you can ride the tram down and save your knees for jetpack Nice. Yeah. Let's see from Girdwood. Oh yeah, there's a one thing I haven't done. I guess it's brand new, they've put a suspension bridge across the top of what's called Christmas and New Year's shoots, which are some pretty challenging ski runs in the winter there are these galleys that run down the north face. So they've at the very top they have added a it's a very kind of dead space basically. A couple of cables with a uh, Darrell little kind of catwalk in the middle of yes, it's about as basic as suspension bridge as you can get.
Jennie Flaming:It's like a rope with a few boards is what it looked like to me like saw their press release. Oh, yeah. Crazy.
Unknown:You have to do it with a guide. I think they put you in a harness and you stay clipped into one of those cables. Looks pretty exciting. Yeah,
Jennie Flaming:that's one way to put it.
Unknown:You know, there's, I believe there's still there was a climbing guide service it was operating. I think they're still doing that down there. There's a small glacier right at the top of of Alyeska, though. So they'll take you up there and you can hike around on the glacier and whatnot. So there's that stuff and yeah, it's and there's lots of other hikes and good stuff to do around Girdwood. Yeah,
Jennie Flaming:good place three day trip from one place to
Unknown:another just going a little further down Turnagain Arm you can go to Whittier, you go through the tunnel. You have to time at right because it's a basically a one one lane road that follows or runs on the railroad track. There runs through the tunnel. So there's times it's when there's trains going through and they'll open it first one direction than the other. Anyway, you get over to Whittier. There's some hiking and stuff over there. You can do some there's it's a it's kind of the gateway to Prince William Sound. There's kayak outfits over there. You know, you can do a do a Kayak Tour. A one fun thing over there is the what's it called? 2626 glacier cruise. Yeah,
Jennie Flaming:they have that as an awesome tour. Yeah,
Unknown:we have done now we had we had some visitors and we went over did that with them one time. That's that's kind of a fun fun cruise to do. Otter, Whittier. Oh, other day trips, including the lake. You can drive up to click the lake. There's, again hiking up there. If you have a bike, you can ride in along the there's a road that's not open to you know, it's not open for cars anymore public cars, but you can ride mountain bikes in on the road, there's an outfit up there that rents kayaks and does tours on nuclear in the lake. Another another fun one is to go out Matanuska valley to drive up to where I stop into bad news, good glacier. Just a great little viewpoint along the highway there. You could also go over to the glacier. There's, you have to cross a bridge across the river that's privately owned. And they so the is some people they kind of own the the access to the glacier, I guess. So they're for pretty modest fee, you can get in there and walk around on the very lower end of the glacier where in the summertime, the snow is all gone. It's it's pretty safe there. You know, you're not going to fall on a crevasse or anything right at the end. And they have, they also do some tours out of there, where they take you out a little more extended tour of the glacier. We had some family visiting. And they did one of those tours and actually the person leading it was, I think, a graduate student in glaciology or something. So it was actually pretty, very informative, extremely knowledgeable guide on that. I don't know that that's always the case. But the folks I know who did their one of their tours up there spoke very highly of it. So that's awesome. You could go to Seward day trip to Seward, and you know, that's probably well, I backing up Matt anouska Glacier, and then I would continue on up to sheep Mountain Lodge, maybe have have Ghana, there's something beautiful spot out there. Yeah, that's, uh, oh, probably two and a half hours or so to drive up there. So it's kind of at the, you know, much further than that kind of becomes more or
Jennie Flaming:not really adept. Really a day trip. Yeah. Yeah.
Unknown:Going on back to the Seward highway. You know, few go on pass Whittier. Uh, you know, you mentioned taking the turn off to go or go to Whittier. There's Alaska Wildlife Center down there. Yeah, right. Yeah. Portage has lots of various animals in pretty. It's, you know, very open. Sound like a zoo where they're in cages. I guess what I'm saying but there's, you know, they have usually have brown bears grizzly bears in there and all sorts of things. So that's, that's worth a visit.
Jennie Flaming:Yeah. It is a great place for wildlife, especially wildlife photography. Yeah.
Unknown:Yeah. Or go on down to Seward Seward's about oh, I had allowed. I'd figure out a probably two and a half hours, two and a quarter hours to drive down there. I should say any of these places on the Seward highway, you know, Girdwood, Whittier, Seward? Well, you know, there's an old joke in Alaska, we get nine months of winter in three months in construction, right and this year are three months is a lot of that construction is going to be on the Seward highway, they're doing a quite a lot of upgrades. So if I were going to head down that way, I'd allow a little extra times. Because you may have to wait, you know, at a, at a flag. Like stop or something kind of for the construction. If I were going to do a, if I were going to Seward and want to do one of the Kenai Fjords tours, which I highly recommend. So you know, you need to be down there in time to meet your boat. I definitely would allow a lot of extra time. Yes, drive. The other thing besides construction, particularly in the summer, there are a lot of wrecks on that road and sometimes gets closed for several hours at a time if there's a you know, while they're dealing with a major accident. So I definitely factor factor in a time cushion. I guess if you're gonna go down the Seward highway. Let's see other kind of de trippy places. Hatcher pass.
Jennie Flaming:Go. That's a good one.
Unknown:Yeah. to hatch her pass. The there's the mine up there. You can tour that's the state park. You can tour some of the old mind buildings. There's lots of lots of neat hiking to do up there. You can drive over hatch or pass and then you come out up by Willow on the Parks Highway. That road typically doesn't open until Oh, probably late June or so. I think most years early July maybe some years. I said it's been a big snow year this year. So depends on when you're whether you could drive all the way over the pass or not kind of depends on on when you get up here. Let's see. Oh, Arctic Valley is another good one. This is just north of town. It's a little scary up there. Again, there's some great accessible hikes. I was when I first have to tell a funny story when I first moved to Anchorage. One of the first places I went hiking using the you know 55 ways hike book was up to Arctic Valley and I'm thinking oh yeah, I'm gonna get out in the wilderness and white hat day. There were people all over the mountain side up there. Yeah, I was like, What the heck is this all about? Well, I learned it was berry seasons. So if you're here later in the summer when the berries are ripe. If you want to go pick berries, Arctic Valley is probably one of the easiest most accessible places to to get to a head. And like I said for a few days there like that first time I went up there. It's a very busy place because lots of people in Anchorage are very into picking berries. Yeah, my wife being one of them. We have generally have a whole freezer full of berries by the end of the summer, which gets us through the winter, right. Anyway, so that's that's another one. Too, what else? What else do we want to talk about? That era and you could if you're around for a couple of days, you could easily do do a couple of those. You know, I go to go to Seward do one of the Kenai Fjords tours. One day go to you know, Arctic Valley or Hatcher pass or Matt anouska glacier sheep Mountain Lodge one day so there that's what I say you could easily spend a couple of days seeing and doing some pretty cool stuff. Just based out of Anchorage. Totally.
Jennie Flaming:I can completely agree. Those are all really fantastic suggestions. Tom, thank you so much. Well, we have a couple couple wrap up questions for you.
Unknown:Oh, yeah, actually, could I add one thing or two? Yeah. Yeah. The other thing I was gonna mention just a couple of a couple of kinda mostly local businesses that people do, people might find handy. I mentioned the craft shop at the native Medical Center. Of course, we have a great Rei, anybody in Anchorage can point you to the REI. That same Northern Lights there, which is kind of the main drag through Midtown. There's a place called hoarding Marmot, which is a outdoor consignments store. You get to Anchorage and you suddenly realize, oh my god, I forgot my sleeping bag or something. I definitely go and check out hoarding Marmot. You know, we've, we've, like most outdoorsy people who've been added a while you know, you collect a whole garage full of stuff that you don't use anymore and and we've taken stuff over there and then we get you get credit for that. And then we've turned around and use that sometimes for stuff we needed or whatnot or if we have visitors and so anyway, hoarding marmots a good spot Hmh if you Google it, it's Alaska mountaineering and hiking. That's a little local mountain shop particularly if if someone is into climbing, any kind of mountaineering stuff Hmh is kind of the go to place particularly if you need you know, knowledgeable advice. And then one other place you know, a lot of people come up I'm, I've done a little bit of fishing, but I'm probably in the minority of Alaskans who's not an avid fisherman but if folks need fishing gear or more you know, if you're gonna be in the coastal areas, you have a lot of people like kind of more traditional heavy duty rain gear. Or if you want to buy if you're going to be in a coastal area and you want to get a pair of x or tufts and try to blend in with the locals. I go to B and J sporting goods which is also in Northern Lights is another local place and maybe you guys should explain what extra tufts are you've lived in southeast right? Yeah, that's
R. Jay F:the only point where you need
Unknown:that's right. Yeah. Yeah.
Jennie Flaming:I feel like you don't see them quite as much in Anchorage as you do in other parts of Alaska.
Unknown:I see him all the time in Anchorage. Yeah, they're
Jennie Flaming:still there a lot but maybe not on every single person.
Unknown:Yeah, if you're in coastal areas if you're in Seward or Homer or any of those places yeah about every other person's got their what they are for our listeners who aren't and to the inside joke here. Extra tufts are these kind of brown rubber knee high boots. They are like the standard were for commercial fishermen. kayakers Yeah. If if you want to try to blend in get some extra tufts and if you want to spend a few extra bucks you can get the salmon sisters extra tufts which have the cool little design when you roll the top down so then you can really repair
Jennie Flaming:worth it. Yeah, I have those.
Unknown:Okay, there you go. Anyway, yeah, and then of course there's all sorts of restaurants and stuff but I just wanted to mention those those shops as places that people might find handy if they need you know, if you get up here and realize your or they lost they lost some of your luggage with some of your gear or, or you forgot it or whatever. Those are places that you can equip yourself for your Alaskan adventures.
Jennie Flaming:Thank you. Those are fantastic tips. And that is the kind of stuff people need an anchorage to because, like you said, it's like you arrive and you forgot something or your bag is lost and you need a rain jacket and all that kind of thing. Yeah. Okay. Are we ready for the last couple wrap up questions?
Unknown:I, I'm ready as I'm gonna get. Okay, is this a quiz? Or, unfortunately
Jennie Flaming:not. It's only a quiz of your own brain. And it's just two questions. So hopefully it'll be easy. Okay. Okay. So the first one is, what is your and these are questions we ask everybody who comes on the podcast, because it's kind of fun to have, like some things that you know, over after you listen to like 20 episodes, you have lots of great restaurant recommendations, for example. The first one is what is your favorite month of the year in Anchorage? My
Unknown:favorite month of the year in Anchorage? I guess I would have to say probably late May, early June. And, you know, it's the days are long. You know, typically, on the average, that's kind of the best weather around Anchorage. So, yeah, you wouldn't convince anyone of it today, because it's been kind of rainy out today. But anyway, yeah. So you know, Memorial Day to and to June, I guess would probably be my favorite time. And you know, part of it part of that too, is you know, you're coming off for the winter and, like, really eager to do summer stuff. And the days are incredibly long. So anyway, awesome.
Jennie Flaming:Great answer. Love it. Okay, finally. Tell us your favorite restaurants. in Anchorage,
Unknown:my favorite restaurant? Yeah. I'm torn between two places. Can I give you two? You can give us two. Okay. Okay. My two favorite places would be the hearts, which is a little woodfired pizza place off of? It's kind of in Midtown off events. And you know, Moses tooth has awesome pizza. I'm sure you've had people recommend mooses tooth or? Yes, the hearth? hearth has a little bit different menu, but it's it's really good. woodfired pizza, nice, you know, beer wine selection there. And, and it's, it's we like it also because it's close to our house. So yeah. And and the other. The other place, I guess, would be snow City Cafe downtown. Yeah. That's pretty hard to beat. That there are lots of other good places, I could rattle off a few.
Jennie Flaming:I think that's I think that's good, because we're building up this whole with all these different episodes or a whole catalogue of favorite restaurants. So those are great. Wonderful additions. So Tom, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing all of your wisdom and knowledge about anchorage with folks who are planning on visiting. Thank you so much for coming on the show.
Unknown:Yeah, okay. Yeah. Well, it was it was kind of fun. You know, and as as a as a as a local. I found it kind of interesting, because there's a lot of stuff that well, you know, I don't pay attention to Yeah, huddled shuttles up the flat top because, you know, I drive my own car up there. And so you find out a lot of little, little things. Yes, that ditch did. You wouldn't when you go to it. It's like looking at a place with new eyes, I
Jennie Flaming:guess. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Well, thanks to all of you out there for joining us for this episode of Alaska uncovered. Next week's episode is our last new episode until September. So we want to encourage you to sign up for my travel tips in email that come out every week including during this one month break for the podcast. So you don't want to miss those lots of great advice about visiting Alaska. The link to sign up for that is in the show notes. And that way you won't ever miss anything. I am going to be doing some tour directing in Alaska. I'm going to be on the road and Jay and I are going to be doing some road logging for the milepost. So we will use back. I will have a new episode next week and then we'll be back with weekly episodes on September 13. So make sure to sign up and subscribe so you don't miss the new episodes when they come out. Bye for now
