How to plan a trip to Denali National Park on your own

Robin Zbytek from Aramark in Denali joins Jennie to talk about all the logistics of how to plan a trip to Denali National Park on your own if you are not part of a tour group or cruise tour.

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Music credits: Largo Montebello, by Domenico Mannelli, CC.

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Are you overwhelmed with trying to plan a trip to Denali National Park on your own? We've got you welcome to the Alaska uncovered podcast with me your host, Jennie Flaming, I bring you accurate, helpful and entertaining information about Alaska travel and life in Alaska. My guest today is Robin Zbytek. Robin is sales and inventory manager for Aramark in Alaska and the northwest. Aaron mark is the concessionaire with the National Park Service for Denali National Park and Glacier Bay National Park. Aramark also operates the bus tours and the transit bus into Denali National Park in collaboration with Don Don is one of Alaska's Alaska Native corporations. Robin loves Alaska and her job helping visitors have a blast on their trip when not working, you will find Robin hiking or camping with her husband and children. Robin, welcome to Alaska uncovered. Thank you for being here. Thank you so much for having me. I know it's this is so fun, Robin and I get to work together quite a bit and also enjoy having fun together. So it's really great having you to talk about this super important topic. So for those of you listening, before we dive into this interview, I just wanted to mention a couple things about what we're covering today. So we are going to focus this episode on folks who are traveling to Denali National Park on their own. And if that's you, I want to just let you know that most people who visit Denali, and when I say most I mean like probably 85% Plus Robin, does that feel like the right number? That's definitely the right number. Yeah, at least 85% of people in Denali are visiting with some type of a tour group, or on a cruise tour that is booked through the cruise line. So the reason we're mentioning that and the reason we're doing this episode is if you're traveling on your own, it can feel a little confusing and overwhelming to figure out how to do it. So that's what we're talking about today. If you are going to Denali, and you are going with a group or you are going through a cruise line, then a lot of the things we're talking about today will not be so confusing, because you'll have someone like me helping you figure that out while you're there. So we're still happy to have you however you're going to Denali, but that is kind of how we're focusing this episode, we're also going to be talking quite a bit about Denali Park village because that is where Robin works and where I often stay when I'm in Denali. There are other hotels that you can stay at as an Independent Traveler. But we will be talking mostly about the village today with me occasionally breaking in with other stuff. So with that, let's go ahead and dive in Robin, anything else you want to say like by introduction that I might have forgotten? I think you really hit the nail on the head. It is important that individual travelers know that there is space for you in Denali, you have to make sure and plan accordingly. And sometimes it might feel like you're being bombarded by cruise gas, but there's lots of opportunity to do many, many things. And just because there's lots of other people around doesn't mean you're not going to enjoy all the beauty and splendor that's in Denali. Totally. I'm glad you said that, because that's something else we'll talk about too is like all those things you can do on your own if you are an Independent Traveler. Okay, so Robin, let's start with getting to Denali. How do people get to Denali? There's a couple of ways we can start with the most broad way. Most people fly into either Anchorage or Fairbanks. And from there you have a couple of options. You can try to rent a car, which is possible, but often very expensive, and must be booked. Probably the first thing you book when you decide to come to Alaska is to book a car immediately. Even if your dates are a little unsure. Making sure that there is a car available is extremely important. If you choose not to rent a car, the train is the best way to go. And you can get to Denali from either Fairbanks or anchorage on the Alaska railroad. Yeah, and I'm really glad you mentioned the railroad because sometimes people are like, Is this really what it costs to rent a car that's kind of crazy. Daine Denali is actually a great place to go in Alaska if you don't want to deal with renting a car. But if you have a car, you can definitely still go. Like Robin said, it can be kind of challenging to get that figured out. But once you are, once you're good to go either way train car are both good ways to get there. One thing that I will just say before we go any further about that is if you don't rent a car, you definitely need to stay in a hotel, as opposed to a vacation rental. Because the vacation rentals there are plenty of them in Denali, but they're further away and and you don't have a way to get back and forth to the park. So if you're doing that, just make sure that you have a car if you're taking the train, you want to stay in one of the hotels that has shuttles that go back and forth to the train. And it's easy to find out. If your hotel has that Denali Park village has that and so do several others. So you can also book through the railroad. And then they'll make sure of course that you are at a hotel that has a shuttle which was super important. Cool. One other thing that you should mention, or we should talk about is the length of time it takes to take the train. renting your own car is great. You're in control of your own destiny and it is a bit faster. In a car from Fairbanks, for example, it takes about two and a half hours maybe to get to Denali. And from Anchorage, it's about four hours. The train is twice that in each direction. So it's going to be about an eight hour train ride from Anchorage and about what is it for four and a half from from Fairbanks. Yeah, that's about four up but it's really nice when you take the train because you don't have to do anything except sit back and enjoy the view. Yeah. Oh, and you don't have to worry about construction delays, which is all right. Right. So there's pros and cons to both. But yeah, if you're on a time constraint, maybe renting your own car might be something you're interested in. But if you're truly on vacation, and you just want to take it all in, I've gotten some great pictures from the train. Yeah, me too. It's a really cool experience. And one thing that might help you with figuring that out to you is just like how big your group is, you know, if there's one or two of you, you know, you're not spreading the rental car cost out over as many people if you're a family of five, then it is definitely going to be less expensive, even with the high cost of renting a car. So yeah, the all different things to consider. Cool. Okay, so now that we have arrived in Denali covered that part. So Robin, let's talk about the options for staying there. So there are camping options, and there are hotel options. And then there are also I mentioned vacation rentals, but they're further away from the park. They're not right at the entrance area. So we're not going to focus on that other than what we already said. today. So should we talk about camping first and then the hotel? Yeah, okay, that's sounds easiest. Cool. Sounds good. So walk us through how people can book camping and like where the campgrounds are in the park. There are several campgrounds in in the park. They are all operated by my company Aramark, guests can go onto our website called reserved denali.com. And look at the campsites that are open, because a portion of the road is under construction, because of that rock glacier slide a couple of years ago, not all of the campsites are available, or open for for business right now. So our website has all of our up to date information and the campsites that are open. You can book sites online, or you can contact our central reservations department to book any of the campsites that are available and camping generally doesn't sell out. It doesn't generally sell out I'm just going to leave it at that. If ever there's a question either check availability online or give that central reservations member a call to find out if you're between certain dates, you can kind of get an idea of how many people are also going to be there when you're going to be there if you call online doesn't really tell you how many sites are left or anything like that. Yeah, but it's the the method of booking is very, very easy. And inexpensive. Yes. And and I'm going to just say that, if you are a camper, I'm camping in Denali is the only bargain accommodations that exists there. Yeah, it's an expensive place to stay in any hotel. Compared to like what You might find in the lower 48. Um, yeah. And it's maybe not an ideal place to camp for the very first time ever, especially in a tent. But if you are a camper, it's a great way to see Denali. I have seen Robin, sometimes people who are in bigger RVs. You know, there aren't as many sites available for bigger RVs. And so I do encourage people who are like driving up to Alaska in an RV or renting an RV to like, get those reservations for Denali ahead of time. Yes, I that's 100% True. Yes. If you're in an RV, and you need an RV space, a camping RV space, then yes, you should definitely book those farther in advance. You know, really, when you decide that you're going to be taking this trip, because that's a pretty monumental trip to drive that far. No matter where you're picking up your RV or if you're doing it all on your own it you know, Alaska is not super close to the lower 48. For those of you that don't know it, it's pretty far, so you'll want to prepare accordingly and get those RV sites booked. Yeah, for sure. Cool. Okay, so we talked about the camping options. One other thing I want to just mention about camping, if you're backpacking, like you're gonna go off away from the vehicle and camp that you'll get a wilderness permit from the park service for that. So what we're talking about here is the campgrounds that you can take a vehicle to, that are managed by earmark inside Denali National Park. Correct. Cool. Okay. So let's talk about the hotel robbing. And before you speak to that, I want to just mention that around the Denali Park entrance area, there are several hotels that are in the place that we call Glitter Gulch. Which is like where all the t shirt shops and things are that are right kind of at the turn from the highway into the park. And Denali Park village is about six miles from there. It's not ready, but about seven miles, seven miles. Okay. So it is a little bit further away. And there are advantages and disadvantages to that. Personally, I like that because you're not in the like, crazy, just people everywhere all the time. But if you'd like that you might be here somewhere else. But one thing that's cool about the village is it's a little bit further away. So um, but still very close and has a shuttle. So Robin, can you talk a little bit about just kind of the hotel and also the shuttle? You know, if you don't have a car, how'd you get there from the train depot? Yeah, so we have shuttles that pick folks up at the train depot for every rail arrival. So when you book your reservation at Denali Park village, you'll if you didn't indicate it online, when you are booking, you will get a phone call probably from a Front Desk Agent inquiring how you're arriving, if you're driving your own car if you're going to be on the train. And if you're coming on the train, which arrival time like which direction you're coming from. Are you coming from the north are you coming from Fairbanks are coming from the south from Talkeetna. And that way, our shuttle will come and pick you up and collect you and take you back to the village if you're looking to get into Glitter Gulch. We have six shuttles a day, three in the morning and three in the afternoon to early evening time to catch to go into the park specifically. And if you are looking to get into glitter gold, you have to be a little bit creative with some of the shuttles available through other hotels to actually get into Glitter Gulch. But it's definitely possible. And those are really the only two ways people come to the village is renting your own car or taking the train. There's no motorcoach. We've got the park connection. Yeah, that just drops people off right at the front door. So if you are coming from Anchorage and you choose to take the park connection drops you off right at the front door, so there's literally nothing you need to do. And once you're on site, then you can utilize those shuttles to get into the park. If you are taking a bus tour, the bus tour will pick you up at the village or it also picks up at the other four major hotels in the canyon. Yep. Yeah, so that's definitely not an issue either. And even like Denali cabins or some of the smaller accommodation places still have a shuttle that will take you into the park where you can get on the tour there. Yeah, so that that part's pretty easy to get to the village. Like Jenny said, we are about seven miles from the park entrance To the village is a little bit different than some of the other properties that are located in Glitter Gulch. We have a little bit more space to kind of walk around. We have a really cute area called miners plaza where there's large picnic tables that you can sit at. There's often lies live music. We have a general store that has ice cream. There's a pizza place and a burger shack. So it's kind of its own little town. All right there. Yeah, without having to go into Glitter Gulch. Yep. Yep. And one thing that I really like about staying there. Now keep in mind that like, I'm usually not on vacation, staying there. I'm usually kind of at the end of possibly a 15 hour day if we came all the way up from Seward. So I really appreciate that it's quiet and that you can walk into the park. So there are several hikes that you can do. Like where you don't have to go anywhere where you just walk literally into Denali National Park. I mean, there's no like visitor center or like big sign that says Welcome to Denali. But you're in there. And I really love that. I don't know, do you want to say anything else about those trails Robin are, they're easily accessible. They're a very short walk from the main entrance to the village. And we highly encourage anyone who comes to the village to utilize them. It's beautiful. You can wildlife sightings, you can see the Northern Lights, depending on the time of year that you're going. And it's just it's a great opportunity to do some quieter hiking, I think. Yeah, like I mean, I always go with, like another tour director, because, you know, his height, by herself. are definitely bears over there. But there's usually someone who's up for that. But yeah, I mean, we rarely see other people occasionally, but rarely. Also in like August, the blueberries along like the triple Lakes Trail are pretty awesome, too. Yes, yes, that's very true. Although if you can find someone most of the time I find ones that are like picked over by the animals, which is really cool. But it was kind of bad for us. Yeah, I know. I know. Yeah. I'm cool. Oh, one other thing I feel like we have to say about the villages in the Thai food truck, or at least I have to say. So I if your app. So even if you're not staying at the village if you're just driving between Talkeetna or Anchorage and Denali, there is across the highway from the village is a place called the grizzly bear, which has some cabins and like a small convenience store. But there is also a Thai food truck there. And that is like a serious bargain, especially for Denali, you can get most of the dishes are between 20 and$25.02. People could easily share it. And it's a lot of place. Yeah. And this is a place where the hot dogs are $15. So well, not at the village but in the in Denali, you know, like at the grill. Yeah. So anyway, um, yeah, I met the end of that. That's a really nice little perk, it's the only thing that you got to be careful of is you have to get there early enough that they're not sold out. Because a good point pretty much every day, the food truck sells out. So if you're trying to go right up, you know, if you look at their hours, and it says they stopped serving at nine o'clock, and you try to show up at 845 they're very likely going to be all out of food. And they will very kindly to tell you to come back the next day. Yes. And if you're not there the next day, then you're sad or if you're sad, you can still smell the food and I know Oh, it's so so good. And you know, I have lived in Seattle and Fairbanks two places where the Thai food is real good. And this Thai food is every bit as good as any Thai restaurant in Fairbanks or Seattle for sure. Yep, it's delicious. Yeah. So check that out. Um, alright, so one of the things Robin that I think is really important for people who are visiting Denali and staying in a hotel is that the hotels are not fancy, like my experience is that they are clean and comfortable. And I think fun, but not fancy. Not fancy. Terms like rustic charm. Yeah, and historic ambiance. Yes, absolutely. I think lots of like, wood shiplap and what do they call the furniture that is made of logs and buried Sitting on unfinished I'll say yes. Yeah style furniture. Lots of plaid things with bears and moose on it's pretty pictures most most of the hotels, the village included has some great photography from. I think some of them are even local photographers. Yeah. Really great pictures of nature. And of course, Denali herself the the mountain. But there, there is no such thing as a five star accommodation in Denali, or I'm gonna go so far as to say four star maybe not even a three star. Yeah, I think I think you're right about that. Yeah, I think I would say that most of the good hotels in Denali are like, a good comfortable two star European hotel. I think so I think it's more of a wooden plaid theme. Yes. And I think between the rooms at the village and and pretty much any other room that you're staying at in Glitter Gulch. All the rooms are pretty similar. They're about the same size. They're the bedding. arrangement is usually one queen bed, two double beds, or one king bed. Those are really the only configurations I can think of. Yep, there's no sweets, I don't think any of the hotels, and any, I don't think any of them have sweets. I know the village doesn't have any sweets. And I can't think of any of the other hotels that have sweets. So it's, it's going to be what we would consider maybe a little bit more of a basic accommodation. Yeah, once you're in your room, they all pretty much look the same. I know that we all shop for furnishings at the same place. So they like all the furniture kind of looks the same no matter where you're saying funny how that works in a rural ration? Like, yeah, you get you get really similar to this other bed. Yeah, that is so that is so true. And yeah. And I think to you that what's important is like you're in Denali National Park, like that's everything else is kind of a bonus. Like, yeah, you know, it's like you're not you're if you want to stay in like an extremely luxurious suite. You know, Denali just isn't the right place for that. That's just not it's not there. No, it's not an indoor type of location, it's outdoor, all the things that you're going to be enjoying while you're there are outside. So, you know, there, I will say the village does have a few. The lodge itself is comprised of several different buildings, there are seven buildings that have hotel style rooms. And then we also have 50, cabins, the hotel style rooms, some of them are newer than others. You know, we have one particular building that was newly refurbished last season. So they're always doing we're always doing something to sort of improve some of the buildings that have been around a little bit longer. And I know for a fact that the hotels in the canyon or Glitter Gulch are the same way. We've all been there for a pretty long time. And we're always trying to at least revamp some of our rooms so that we do have some fresh rooms for guests. That being said, some of the some of the rooms that are more well loved. You know, they'll get they'll get some attention. Eventually. Yeah, yeah. Can you talk a little bit too about, like elevators for like, what people because not all of the this is again, not just the village, other hotels as well. Not every building has an elevator. So if someone needs if someone can't do stairs, what and again, there, if you're traveling with a tour group, you know, someone like me will take care of that. But like if you're traveling on your own, what do people need to do if they can't do stairs? To make sure Yeah, first of all, if you're booking a reservation, either online or over the phone with any hotel, just make sure that you mentioned those mobility issues. You know, if it's wheelchair only great, we every property has wheelchair accessible and ADA compliant rooms. You know, for some of the older crowd, if you use a walker and you want it to be on the ground floor, just make sure to indicate those things at the time of booking to make sure that the agent that's taking the reservation is able to put those notes in and you'll get a room you know that we'll be able to suit your needs. Yeah. And I like I have had guests when we were staying at the village who, like we're getting around fine, but like had recently had knee surgery or something. And we're like, you know, so I always ask people like, Hey, does anyone is anyone going to struggle doing stairs because I can't always tell just by looking at someone you know, or even watching them walk. So yeah, yeah, that's great. Cool. Okay, um, last thing about The hotel before we talk about some other things related to Denali, can you talk a little bit about Wi Fi and cell service? Because I, I'd love to hear what you say about that. I also have by I, I say when I'm there, it's a great opportunity to unplug, yeah, truth be told there is Wi Fi available in a number of places, your signal is not going to be great. You know, if you are on vacation, and you want to FaceTime your mother, father, friend, brother or sister, the FaceTime probably isn't going to be great, it's going to freeze a lot. It might kick you off all together. It's, it's not super reliable in every location. Again, I can speak to the village or what it's like to be in Glitter Gulch. I have pretty good signal when I'm there. Especially if you are concerned about it, you can ask the front desk at any of the hotels where the best or strongest Wi Fi signal is, and kind of do your phone calls or your face times in those locations. It's not great. But I think it's a great opportunity to unplug and maybe not worry about it. Yeah. I agree with that. And like my experience has been even somewhere, like at the village or Glitter Gulch, or even the visitor center in Denali, where, like, my phone will often look like it has pretty good service, like have lots of bars. But as soon as you try to do something, yes. So then it's gonna say, oh, no, I don't think so. Yeah, it's like, like, certainly it is not strong enough for streaming, that's for sure. Oh, no, that's not a thing there. But you can almost always send a text message. You know, you might have to be a little bit patient. It might take a minute. Um, but yeah, I agree with Robin. Think of it as being unplugged. And if you're like in the middle of a show, or a podcast like this one, and you're like, I can't, I can't wait three days to hear what Johnny's gonna say next. I'm sure that never happens. But if it did, I always tell people to make sure to you download anything you want to watch like music, you want to listen to audiobooks, make sure you have it downloaded on your phone, so you don't have to stream it. And and I would say that is good advice for anywhere in Alaska, except maybe downtown Anchorage. And even then I would say maybe like hotel Wi Fi is not good anywhere in Alaska. So um, yeah, but you can communicate, which is pretty cool. Yes, that's true. Yeah, just have to be a little bit more patient about it sometimes. Yeah. My favorite. This is the bummer about this being audio only. Because I have a really strong visual of people walking around with their like, holding their phones up. Trying to get signals and trying to like send a text or something. I see that a lot. I really do. Cool. All right. Well, we're gonna move on from hotels and lodging here in a moment. But one thing I just wanted to say to wrap this up, and you know, I can say this, because I don't work for any hotels in Denali. They This is a place where the hotels are big, and very busy every day, for five months, four months. And that's it. Right. So these are hotels that like get completely stood up and taken down every single summer. And I'm just always really impressed with how the staff are able to do that. So as a fellow traveler, I want to just encourage you to be patient. I'm unkind to people working there, because they really have their hands full and for the most part, do a really great job. So I just wanted to say that before we move on from hotels. Hi, everyone, Jennie here, I just wanted to drop in and let you know other ways that I can help you plan your trip to Alaska beyond just this podcast and the articles on my website. So there are three ways that I can help you if you would like more help from me getting your trip off the ground. And since January is planning month here at the Alaska uncovered podcast, it's a great time to take advantage of these. So the first thing is I have three planners so it's a digital planner and workbook you can also print it out. And one of them is called the Alaska adventure planner and that is the one for you if you're planning a trip on your own, to different places in Alaska. Then I also have one for folks planning cruises and I also have one Are folks planning the awesome drive all the way from the lower 48 up to Alaska. So that's the first way is my planners. The second way is I do one on one travel planning with folks. It's super fun. We just hop on Zoom, and you asked me all your questions, and I answer them. And those are 30 minute sessions. And you can book them directly online. The link to that is in the show notes along with the link to the planner. And then finally, if you want me to just do the whole thing for you everything from figuring out the best activities for you in your travel crew, where to stay, where to go, how much is too much what to leave out all of that stuff. I do that too. I do full custom Alaska itinerary planning, both for cruises as well as independent trips. And I would love to work with you on that in the show notes as a link to the page with more information. And you can hop over there if you would like me to plan your trip for you. So we're in Denali, we figured out how to get there. We figured out where to stay. We've got that all figured out. I'm getting around Denali. Let's talk about that a little bit. So one of the most common questions that I get to answer from people is, Do I really have to take a bus to go into the park. So Robin, do I really have to take a bus to go into the park, you really do. So the skinny on that is, if you did rent a car, you are able to drive the first 15 miles into the park to a place called savage River. There's a campground there. It's very pretty there. It's very it's there's a NPS ranger station there. But you can't drive your car past that point unless you are camping at one of the campgrounds past that point. And you'll get a special pass from NPS to be able to drive past that Ranger booth. But other than that, it's true, you have to be on a tour bus to be able to go any farther into the park. And we should mention that like I said earlier, there is a very large portion of the road that's under construction. So the full 92 Mile Road is not open until gosh, I think it least mid is it mid 2627 I have heard like the most optimistic thing is some time in 2026. Same same I have a feeling and and even if that's the case, it's going to be like August. So we're gonna see and I would not I would not be counting on that if at all. No, no, this was like a huge project in a majorly remote. I don't know Yeah, yeah. It's it's an you know, they can only work on it for a short time out of the year relatively. So anybody who's listening to this that's interested in what's going on. And what we're talking about, you can go to NPS website and type in Denali, basically Denali road. And there will be a number of articles that you can see the blueprints for the bridge that they're building, the rock glacier slide that happened in August of 21. So the full road is not open right now. If you want to get into the park, you can book a bus tour. And these are 10 buses that go in and out of the park regularly throughout the day. You do have to book these. I was gonna say you have to book them in advance, but that's not entirely true. Definitely check the website reserved Denali, to check avail availability for the tundra wilderness tour, or the natural history tour. But you can walk up you really can Jenny, you can walk up to the bus depot and the day of and see what times are available and get on a bus right away. I know it's a goal of the National Park Service to ensure that every guest who comes through Denali is able to get onto a bus to see the park and they do a great job with managing that. Yep. So that's really, you know, if you're gonna if you're gonna get as far into the park as you can, on a bus is gonna be the way you do it. Yeah. And I am just going to add to that that's cool to know that they're often our walk up tickets like even if it looks sold out. I think what I would say about that is that you're going to have Robin said this to you but you're going to have to be flexible. In that situation. It's not like you're going to be able to walk up and be like, you know, they might say like, Okay, we've got like room for two people over here, when you know, it might be. You might have to just give it a minute to work out. But um, yeah, that's good to know that they usually are able to get people on. That's awesome. Yes, it's definitely, you know, they work very hard to make sure that everybody who comes to Denali gets to at least experience it one way or another. Yeah, yeah. Something. Something to mention, though, are the green transit buses. And this kind of goes hand in hand with the camping that we talked about earlier, you know, if you're going to be doing any backcountry camping at all, it's those green transit buses that you're going to be hopping on and off. It's not a tour, there's going to be no guided narration, nothing like that. It's strictly transportation for hikers and campers. But it does go all the way out. Right now it can only go to East Fork, which is mile marker 43. It'll get you out there, you can get out and walk around, you can hop on another green bus to come back if a guided tour is not your thing. Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about that a little bit more Robin a little bit more about like the difference between the brown tour buses and the green transit buses. And I can share my thoughts on this too. But like, if when you're talking to someone who's like thinking about visiting, how do you help them decide which bus is the right one for them? Well, I think it's important to understand first what exactly the guest is looking for. If they are really into the geography or geology of the park, a narrated natural history tour is definitely interesting. They're going to it's a fully narrated bus tour. The tour directors are the bus drivers who are also the tour directors are fantastic. And they go very in depth about the natural history of the park ways that indigenous folks use the lands, items like that. That's what you're gonna get out of that experience. And those are both the tundra wilderness tour and the natural history tour are about four ish hours long. Depending on if you see wildlife and the bus stops and things like that it might be a little bit longer, inclement weather will make it a little bit shorter. But if you really want that guided tour experience, you know, you enjoy hearing the narration, you enjoy learning about the history of the park, which is the tundra wilderness tour. That's going to be the experience that we were looking for. If you have a giant camera, and you don't necessarily want to listen to a narrated bus driver or you know, a narrated tour, and you hop on a transit bus, it's going to take you to the same locations. And if you like if you'd like it a little bit quieter transit buses is the way to go. I've seen you know the wildlife doesn't care what color the buses, right? So you're gonna you're gonna see what you see on that day. It doesn't matter which bus you're on. Yep, yep. Um, I totally agree with that. And I think the only thing I would add to that is if you are if you think of yourself as a hiker, or you're a person who enjoys hiking, you might want to consider the transit bus because that is what gives you the option to just get off and go for a hike somewhere in the park. And you can add, you can check in with the Rangers in the visitor center, kind of about places that they would particularly recommend, you know, it varies a lot based on the time of year, the weather, you know what wildlife is doing. But that is a really cool experience. A lot of it is off trail hiking, which isn't something you can do a lot of places. Right. Yeah. Good point. So I think that's something to consider. And one other thing I would mention about the difference is, in addition to everything Robin said, is if you're if you're on the tour bus, you have a seat on the tour bus the whole time. Right, if you're on the transit bus, you're gonna get off, or you don't have to get off, but you may get off. And then when you go to get back on, you know, you have to wait for the next bus to come. You don't know exactly what seats will be available. Occasionally it might be full, you might have to wait a minute. So just or not a minute, a few minutes. So just kind of keep that in mind to you like how kind of flexible you are about what the day looks like. Yes, yes. That's a great point. Yeah, the green transit buses are like hop on hop off. It's like a traditional bus route. Yeah. Yep. That one's called the transit right? The tour buses you are not allowed to hop on and hop off. They the guide will not let you get off to wait for the next tan bus. That's that's they won't be happy. No, you can't. You don't as a person who's been a bus driver, not in Denali. But on other tours, when you're on a tour, you can't disappear on people that's really bad for don't do that causes people lots of stress. Please don't do that. Yeah, one other thing. Robin, I wanted to ask you about the buses. So you are a parent, and I am not. What one thing people often ask about is like kids and going on the bus tour versus the transit bus. And I know you can't speak for all moms and all kids. But what are your thoughts about that for people who are traveling with kids? Well, the in Denali National Park, they follow all the same regulations that they do in the state of Alaska, right. So if your kid is in a car seat, when you're driving around town, no matter what state you live in, you have to have a car seat on these buses. So when it comes to the tour buses, if you're traveling with smaller children that would require a car seat. Most of the time, there is a seat available at the bus depot, they do have child seats, you just have to tell them in advance. Yep. When you're booking your reservation, if you are a family that something fell through, you end up at the bus depot and you want to try to hop onto a bus, a bus tour, just tell the agent at the desk, you know, we have a three year old and we're gonna need a car seat and they're gonna say, okay, great. And then they're gonna go in the back. They're gonna get Carsey. And they're gonna say, Here you go. So there are car seats available. Now on the transit bus, I want to say there's usually one car seat. So if you have multiple children that require car seats, and a lot of parents already do this anyway, they'll travel with a booster seat or something like that. Kids need a seat. Gotta be safe. Yeah, at first. Yep. And that can be a little bit of a hassle. If you're like, if you flew to Alaska without a car seat, and you're doing a car free trip, which I don't think that many people are with young children. But if you are, just be aware that you're gonna either need to bring your own or get theirs. Okay, and what do you think about like, two are linked, do you? Do you feel like one of those options is better for kids over the other? Or do you feel like it doesn't really matter? It just depends on the kid. I think it just depends on the kid. I have two children, and my kids are both wonderful, but different. I know, one of my children would be totally fine sitting on a four hour bus tour. And the other one would probably make it about 40 minutes before they got bored. So, you know, it really depends on the kid and I, I personally think you know, if I'm, if I'm going to Denali with my family, I'm going to be like transit busing it, I'm gonna Yeah, you know, my kids are gonna want to get off and go take a hike and like, come back. I, you know, my kids are four and eight, almost five and nine. So they don't mind getting out walking around for a while. In fact, that's better for them. But you know, some kids don't mind sitting on a bus and listening to the tour. The option or ability to see wildlife is always very exciting for kids. So that kind of keeps them engaged on the tour. I would say most of the time. I see kids kind of 10 up on the tour. I don't see a whole lot of younger children taking a bus tour. Yeah. Yeah. Because a lot of parents are like, Oh, that sounds hard. Well, and even oh my gosh, in the tundra wilderness tour is running its full distance of like, 60 some miles. It's an eight hour tour. You don't see very many small kids on that because that's just not it's not fun. No, I totally agree. Um, so Okay, before we move on from tours, um, I just wanted to mention that like if you decide that the bus tour or the transit bus is not for you, there are still things you can do in Denali, you're just not going to be going deep into the park like Robin was talking about. And I would say if wildlife is really your priority, taking the bus as far as possible is is the best way to do that as well as see some of these epic landscapes but there are still hikes and trails you can do you can go to the dog kennels, which are really cool. The Visitor Center, that kind of thing. So there are other things you can do there but this, this is something that you probably want to do. Look. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's the best. It's the best way to see as much of the park as you possibly can. Yeah, and all those other things that you mentioned, you know, the dog kennels. There's tons of like ATV, UTV rental places. You know, all those things are really fun, and they are all outside. But they're not in the park. That's probably the biggest thing. And all the all the surrounding scenery is still very, very beautiful. Yeah, but it's not in the park. Yep. I'm glad. That's something I mean, that is something else that I was going to ask you about. And now I don't have to because you already talked about it. And I will just add, you know, to that, that there are like Robins said many wonderful tours in the Denali area. They have amazing scenery and super cool experiences. And I would hate to see someone like not do rafting, because they're like, technically, it's not in the park. It's really cool. If you're into rafting, I'm not actually interrupting. But if you are like people love the rafting tour on the new Nana river, so don't let that stop you from doing some of these other things. But just know that this bus tour or some flights in companies, not all but some flights and companies have the right permit, you can fly in and even land in the park, which is something that we have another episode coming up on in February, we're going to have an episode about flight seeing and landing in the park. But other than that, everything that I'm gonna I know it's we actually recorded it already. So Robin and I are recording this in early January. And this episode will be live in mid January. But yeah, we actually recorded the flight scene one a couple days ago. So awesome. It's gonna be so good. Yeah, cool. Okay. Um, anything else you want to say Robin about like, navigating the park, things to do there? I think we've we've talked about this a couple of times, just be flexible or try to be flexible. Also understand, I don't think we've mentioned this at all. It very well may snow in August. You might get weird freak snowstorm it won't last long. But it might prevent a tour bus from going out or a transit bus from operating for that hour. Weird stuff weather wise happens in the middle of the wilderness and Alaska. Plans can change pretty quickly. Yeah. So just try to be as flexible as you can. A lot of times you're going to be making reservations pretty far in advance for certain things. I know that when I've gone for pleasure. I booked stuff. Months and months and months in advance. Yeah. And then if the day comes, in fact, the day that I went ziplining the first day, it rained like hard and they were like, hey, it's raining really really hard. You know, we'll give you like rain check. And luckily I was still going to be in the canyon in Glitter Gulch long enough I could do it the next day when it didn't rain. So just trying to be as flexible as you can. You know, we don't we don't have a whole lot of control over Mother Nature and most of the things that happen revolve around that type of thing. Mother Nature doing something crazy. Yep. And speaking of Mother Nature, um, one thing I wanted to mention earlier and just realized I forgot is seen the mountain Denali, so the highest peak in North America, which is inside of Denali National Park. And, you know, we use the word Denali to describe both the mountain and the park and the general area. It's that can be confusing. Um, but one thing I want to make sure people know and that I always talk about with my clients and also when I'm on tour with the people on my tour, is that when you are at the park entrance area, you do not have a view of Denali the mountain. No, you do not have a view of it from any of the hotels that are at the park entrance area. Now all the hotels have are surrounded by amazing scenery, but you don't see Denali the mountain from there because the close by mountains are too high. So that is another thing about the bus tour. That gives you the best chance of getting to a place where you can see the mountain. But of course going back to the weather, you might not see the mountain just because you go to a place where it is. She's so tall, she makes her own weather. Perfectly clear day you'll get out They're and all of a sudden, there's going to be a giant cloud. Yeah, right in the middle of it. And there's lots of theory fun, like local ish terminology. Like you can only see the Tom, which is the top of the mountain. You can only see the Bob Bob, which is the bottom of the mountain. I heard that one. That's awesome. No, somebody taught me that a couple of years ago because I couldn't figure out what they were talking about. And then once they explained it, I was like, Oh, that totally makes sense. Yes, he totally does. Um, if you're looking for a hotel, or a campground, with like, a view of Denali, the mountain look for that Intel Kena or Trapper Creek? Because that's three hours away from the area that in a car from where Robin and I are talking about, but it's actually closer to Denali, and there aren't. There's a river valley in between. So you can actually see the mountain from there, which is very confusing, but, um, yeah. Okay. So, Robin, we have talked about getting to Denali. We have talked about sleeping in Denali, we have talked about exploring the park. And we need to talk about eating in Denali, because eating and Denali can be a little tricky. Yes, yes. It's a little bit challenging. Yeah, I think a theme that you're probably picking up on in this episode, I hope you are, is that traveling to Denali National Park requires a lot of advanced planning. And a lot of flexibility requires both of us. That can be a little hard. Yeah, I mean, those two things don't exactly go super well together all the tie. Yes. Most people feel really comfortable with one but not both. So I'm in the realm of food. Let's see, how should we talk about that. Robin, do you want to talk about like some of your favorite ways of navigating, navigating that I could talk about mine? Well, I think I think the easiest thing comes down to transportation. If you are arriving on a train, and you're staying at any of the hotels, anywhere, whether it be the village or you're staying in the Gulch, the bluffs or the grand or the princess or the chalet, or all of those locations, have at least a restaurant available on site. And grizzly bear has the Thai food truck. So every place has at least one place to eat. So if you're only going to be in Denali for a couple of days, you can probably get away with eating at that one location. Yeah, a couple of times, try something different. And it's fine. If you're going to be in Denali. For more than two dinners, you're going to have to get a little creative or else you're going to be tried everything on the menu. Yeah. So there's not there's not a whole again, most properties do have more than one option. At the village, we have burger shack, you could do cabin night dinner theater, you have some a couple of other options. I know if you're staying at the princess or the chalet. They have several restaurants available on property. If you're in the Gulf, you can kind of walk around between the hotels and try the restaurants in each of the hotels. Yeah, outside of the hotel restaurants. There are not a lot of options, right? Like, there's prospectors, which is a pizza place. It's kind of in a little strip of shops. I know there's a subway, which kind of makes me groan that there's a chain restaurant or it's so weird, but you know, it's there if you know you don't want to eat. If you don't want to pop into a restaurant and like sit down it is available for you to you know, quickly get something on the go. And there's the dog house. There's the dog house. Dogs. Yeah, those hot dogs start at $9 rather than 15. But if you want toppings they get up for it's 15. And I want to see their reindeer dogs, which I think is like the extra cool part. If people have not had a reindeer dog. They should try one because they're pretty delicious. Yeah. And there's plenty of food trucks in the Gulch, too. Yeah, yeah. And there's links pizza. And isn't there like an Armenian place? Yeah. I was just gonna say moose. AK is I think that's a great a great place to I haven't had the pleasure of dining there. But I know lots of people have the idoe and they say it's great. So yeah. I look forward to trying it. Yeah, this year. Yeah. Um, I Yeah. And then there's also the restaurant that's like near the visitor center, like between the visitor center and the bus depot. That's the like, Park. One. That is like kind of like Typical cafeteria food but you know, you can get well, I if you have a car and you can make it to like panorama. I recommend panorama. It's a great environment. It's pretty fun. They do karaoke at night on on Wednesdays Okay, at least that's what it was last year, but I must not have ever been out there on a Wednesday. It's a good time. Okay, it's a good time. Cool. And there's also further away in Healy. There's 40 United State brewing that has good food and beer that is super popular, but you'd have to have a car to go up there. Right. I guess the takeaway from this is, if you have a car, you have more options. Yeah. If you don't have a car, you're going to end up eating probably at just a couple of places. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, remember, you're in the middle of the wilderness. Yep. So food any anywhere you eat is going to be at a higher price point that you're probably used to, especially if you live in the lower 48. Yep. It is expensive to eat and Denali, kids. It's expensive to eat. To feed a child. It's yeah, yeah. It's expensive. Just across the board. Yeah. Um, one other thing I wanted to mention about eating and Denali. Is that the enter the area that we're talking about as the park entrance area, Nana Canyon, the canyon Glitter Gulch. I think we've got to use those terms. The same place? Um, it's not a town. No, it doesn't passion of buildings. Yes, that sell things. But there's no grocery store, for example. Nope. No Huey for that. Right. Three Bears. Yeah, there's three bears in Healy. And then there's the three bears, that's like down closer to tell kina Right. Um, but if you are driving to Denali, um, you definitely want if you want to get anything that's like, easy to eat like muffins in the morning, something like that. Getting that from a grocery store. Anything you'd want to get from a grocery store you need to get before you arrive. Um, or if you have a car, you can go to hilly, but if you don't have a car, just sort of make a plan when you're in Anchorage, or Fairbanks. To get anything you need. And again, you're not going to starve there. It's just that, you know, if you're like, I just like to go buy a yogurt. You know, well, that was a bad example, because the village we have Grab and Go stuff, actually. Yes. A lot of girls do have like a grab and go yep, spot. You know, if you're gonna if you're gonna be out and about during the day and you want to box lunch, most of the hotels offer like kind of a to go lunch option. It's not. Again, it's one of those things where you got to do some planning, but also be flexible. Yeah, yeah. I would say the most difficult thing is eating at non normal meal times is the biggest challenge. You know, if you're one of those people, it's like 1030 in the morning, and you're like, oh, I don't normally have breakfast early in the morning. I get hungry like 1030 that's when you're gonna have trouble finding something. Yes. Yep. For sure. Yep. And also, I'm glad you brought up the box lunches. Because when you go into the park, whether it's on the bus tour or their transit bus, there isn't any food in the park. Marino grill. Yes. Anything I can think of. Right? Once you once you go out, there's no like vending machines or No, no, there's barely even bathrooms. I mean, there's like, you know, it's wilderness. Your furnace? Yeah, there are bathrooms, but they're not flushing bathrooms. Correct. There are I can't think of a place where there's a flushing toilet beyond the entrance visitor center area. Am I missing? I don't. Yeah, they're all are in very, I will say that the outhouses or the pit toilets in Denali are the most beautiful and immaculately clean one that I have ever seen. Every time I go in there, I'm like, I just need to look in this outhouse to just see how nice. They are very, very clean. They do a great job. It's amazing. I don't know how I don't know how they do that. It's remarkable. Anyway. Okay, so last, well, last kind of big Denali thing we're talking about is just a few final things around planning and logistics. So the important theme is you have to plan ahead, you have to have a plan. And you have to be flexible, which is frustrating, but that's how it is. So Robin, how many days do you feel like is the ideal number of days to spend in Denali, or maybe the minimum number of days maybe a better way to think about gosh, well, this is a very tricky question. Yeah, does. I'm gonna I'm just gonna throw some data at you. When you come in on a cruise, for example, the average nights stay for guests is 1.5 Nights. That's not even two nights. I know. That's definitely not enough time. Yes. That completely. I think when I hear of some independent travelers saying that they're going to stay for nine days. I'm like, kind of a long time. I think my sweet spot when I like, if I get to go there for pleasure. I'm gonna say for four days. Yeah, four days I think is the is the best amount of time. You could do a tour into the park one day, you can probably squeeze in a couple of activities a day doing ziplining or ATV or Oh, one of my favorite things to do is the covered wagon. Tour. Oh, I haven't. Diamond. Oh my gosh, it's so much fun. Yeah. I think it's beautiful. I like the horses. I think the whole thing is really cute. Basically, it's true black diamond, you get on a covered wagon that's pulled by to draft horses. The guide, chit chats with you about the surrounding area, you're sitting with your friends, you go out and you enjoy a family style meal. And then you get back on the covered wagon and you go back. I mean, it's beautiful. The food was good. The people I went with were really fun. So you know, you could do more than one activity a day. And if you're doing one or two activities a day, I'd say four days is the perfect amount of time. Yeah, I think that's good. I would say that the minimum is two nights. I agree. Because if you don't stay two nights, it's really hard to get into the park on like the bus tour. Right? Oh, that's all you can get back and then drive up to Fairbanks. But that's like a really long day. So yeah, I think two nights is good if you're on a cruise tour, and they're handling all the logistics and transportation. And you can only do a 10 day trip. And that's going to give you just one night and anally. That's not the end of the world. I know enough. But if you are on your own a me on a one night as well. Yeah, it's got to be too. And I think then if you have more, three or four nights, like what you were saying, then you'd have even more time to do more activities and see Yeah, the park. Yeah. Cool. Okay, so how far ahead? We talked about this a little bit with campgrounds? But how far ahead? Do people need to book if they're like, I want to go and stay at the village? Or? I mean, this is pretty true for any hotel, really. But like, how far ahead? Do you feel like people you're the one who looks at the bookings all the time? How far ahead? Let's say I want to go for four days in July. And my dates are not flexible. How far ahead do I need to do as far in advance as you can book tickets, plane tickets that is from wherever it is you're coming from? So kind of the deal with all the hotels in Glitter Gulch and the village included? Our bookings don't become available until about six months before we open. Yeah, so the village specifically, our website opens for business for the following season December 1, I know that all of the other hotels in the vicinity are right around that might be a little bit earlier might be a tiny bit later. But really six months is kind of the sweet spot. Keep in mind, a lot of the space is going to be blocked off for all those lovely cruise passengers that come through the area. And if your dates don't look available, they may become available when large blocks get released at hotels and the space goes back into the inventory for general public. So it's January now. You know, I think you said this episode's going to air in a couple of weeks. Yeah. You know if you're planning on coming to Denali this summer and you want to come in July, which a lot of people a lot of specifically Americans decided to travel, you know, on summer break with their kids. July and August are the two busiest months in Denali. Yep. Again, with the flexibility if you can go a little bit later. It might be easier to get it to get those four days. Yeah. At any of the hotels, or a little bit earlier. May is a beautiful time. September is my favorite time to go. So I mean, I know that's not really available for for families per se because kids go back to school. But so awesome, though. September is by far my favorite time. But you know, I'd say in the order of booking reservations, you Gonna have to look at plane tickets first, depending on where you're coming from, and then hotels to car in there. Yeah, maybe plane tickets car hotel would be the order in which I booked things. Don't be discouraged if immediately when you're looking at any hotels availability calendar, like, oh, I can't, you know, I can't get it all in at this time, or I can't get it all in this time. Just be diligent about checking back in a week or two weeks, or or call one of the customer service agents to get a better idea of, you know, do you think that third night will open up? I know, some individual travelers will stay maybe one or two nights at one hotel, and maybe stay another couple of nights at a different hotel. You may not be able to get all four nights at the same hotel. Or you could do like a couple nights and tell Kena and then. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yep, definitely. I love Tokina. So no, till any opportunity to stay there. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Um, cool. You know, that's funny, Robin, because I usually tell people to book their hotels first. Really? Yeah. Because the like, especially places that are really busy. Like, I think it just depends on where you're traveling. It does depend on where you're traveling from. So I live. I live in the Midwest. So flights from where I live to Anchorage are not as available. I know that you live in Washington. Yeah. When I lived in Washington getting to there was flights to go to Alaska several times a day. Yeah. Easier. It does depend on where you're traveling from, you know, if you're coming from Florida, for example, I don't know how easy it is to get to Anchorage, or Fairbanks from Florida. If you live on the West Coast, though, it's going to be a little bit easier. And you're right, maybe booking your hotel is a better idea. Because you know that there are multiple flights a day that go up to Anchorage or Fairbanks. And it it also depends on where you're going in Alaska. Yes. And how flexible you are coming back to that theme. So like, I usually send folks on my email list a few emails in late spring and early summer that are like, Hey, you want to go to Alaska this summer? Um, didn't make a plan. Here's three places you could go like next. Yeah. I like that. Right. So it's like an actually, I know, this podcast episode is not about Glacier Bay. But often there are some nights at the Glacier Bay Lodge that are available. Not not like in July, but often and like June, I'll be like, Hey, you could go to last weekend. or other places are like Valdez or Wrangell, St. Elias National Park, like places that aren't as busy. Or just staying in Anchorage or Fairbanks and not having to be downtown anyway. So I think it depends too on how flexible you are. If you're like, I want to be at this hotel in this location. Yeah, that's gonna be your hotel first. Yeah. But if you're like, I'm just gonna go to Alaska, and I'm cool going wherever then. Sure. Go Go for it with the link ticket first. Yeah, but yeah. And I think you're right, too. It does depend somewhat on where you're traveling from. Yeah, if it's limited flights. Again, I'm speaking from my own experience, because I, you know, oh, and something to mention. You'll never come in in the daytime. Every flight, like comes in or leaves. Anchorage is always in the middle of the night. It's by far the nicest, nicest airport. I've been in at like three in the morning. everybody's awake. Everything's open. There's kids running up and down the hallways. Yeah. I mean, it's, yeah, it looks so dreary awake in the middle of the night. Yeah, if you're coming from the west coast, there's a chance you'll arrive in the daytime. But if you're not from the West Coast of the US, nope. Not gonna happen. It's gonna be the middle of the night. It's funny too. Because whenever i Even though I live in Seattle. I'm often going back and forth in the middle of the night anyway, still. And it's like when you go to go through security and the anchorage airport at midnight. It's slammed. Oh, yeah. Oh, definitely. Just yeah, bananas in there. Yep. Whereas if you go in at like, 1pm it's like, pretty chill. Pretty quiet. Yeah. Pretty cool. Okay, so anything. So I think we've covered things pretty well here. Robin, we talked about getting to Denali, figuring out where to stay reservations, food, activities, logistics. Um, so I think we are ready to move into our final three questions that I asked pretty much everyone who comes on the pod one of them you already answered, which is what's your favorite month in Denali? Oh, and I am with you about Yeah, it is. Yeah, stick around. Um, okay, so what is your favorite restaurants? It could be in the Denali area, but I'm gonna say I know you spend a lot of time in Anchorage also because you're working there some of the time. What's your favorite restaurant in Alaska? I can only pick one. Um, I picked you. So my home office is in Anchorage, and I do spend a lot of time there. I would say my most frequented restaurant when I'm there is this Bernard Roadhouse. Oh, yeah, that's a great one. I love it. It's good for it's good for like brunch. It's good for dinner. Yeah. I've never had a bad meal there. It's reasonably priced. I think it's, it's probably my favorite. I agree with you that that is an excellent choice. Yeah. Okay. What's your favorite thing to do? In Denali. I know, you're often working long days when you're there. But when you're not working, what's your favorite thing to do? Hiking, getting outside, like anything, any opportunity, I get to be outside anywhere there. Whether it be just immediately outside of the buildings that I'm working in. I am in love with the scenery there. It's my favorite place to be that Oxbow trail that's right behind the villa. It's short, but it's beautiful. And it's right next to the river. Yep. Triple lakes is great. Just literally being outside. Any kind of hiking, whether it be, you know, short, 20 minutes or like a four hour hike. It is my favorite thing to do there. Not to say there's not a million other fun things to do. But yeah, I'm with your prayer. It's so pretty. Yeah. Yeah, that's That's it. Yeah. Cool. Well, Robin, thank you so much for joining me today for this episode of Alaska uncovered and sharing all this insider knowledge about Denali. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me. It's been so fun. Yeah. And those of you listening. Thank you for joining us today for this episode of Alaska uncovered, and we look forward to seeing you next time. Bye for now.

Alaska Uncovered Podcast

How to plan a trip to Denali National Park on your own

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