Alaska Uncovered Podcast
Welcome to the Alaska Uncovered Podcast with your host, Jennie Thwing Flaming. Jennie brings you accurate, helpful and entertaining information about Alaska Travel and Life in Alaska. Guests include Alaska travel experts and Alaska business owners, guides and interesting Alaskans. Jennie is a born and raised Seattleite, a former Alaskan and spends several weeks in Alaska each year. She’s an experienced guide and the Founder of the Alaska and Washington travel website, Top Left Adventures. Jennie is joined by occasional co-host, Jay Flaming, her husband for 25 years. Jennie and Jay met working in tourism in Alaska and have lived in Skagway, Juneau and Fairbanks together. Jay lived in Fairbanks for 8 years before meeting Jennie in Skagway and grew up in Yellowstone National Park.
Alaska Uncovered Podcast
Jennie's 5 Days above the Arctic Circle in February
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Jay interviews Jennie about her recent trip to Arctic Hive in Wiseman, above the Arctic Circle.
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Welcome to the Alaska Uncovered Podcast with me, your host, Jennie Thwing Flaming, my occasional co-host and full-time husband, Jay, and I bring you accurate, helpful, and entertaining information about Alaska Travel and life in Alaska.
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Before we jump into this episode, I wanted to let you know that if you've been wanting to do one of my planning sessions or have me plan your trip for you, those are two different things, but I. , The trip planning always starts, , with a planning session so you can decide if that's what you actually want.
If you wanna do that for 2026, we've only got about six weeks left that I am offering that. At the end of April, I transition into. Tour and research mode. And I don't offer travel planning between May and mid to late September. So if you wanna get in on that, you need to do that by the end of April.
Head on over to the link in the show notes to book a time. Alright, enjoy the show.
Hello, Jennie.
Well, I, , I'd like to welcome you home. You were, you were gone for,
I was
about 10 days
and I wasn't working this time.
That was cool.
Yeah. But you kind of were, I mean, you weren't
No, I wasn't.
Okay. Well, what
I am now, I'm telling you about it. This part
that's, well, that's where I was. Yeah. So you, um, you went up to Alaska.
Mm-hmm.
So you didn't go to Alaska for work. So why don't you tell our listeners where you went? And why if you weren't working?
Okay. Well, I like to go even when I'm not working. It just doesn't happen a ton because of what my job is now. But yeah, so. I, for, as you know, Jay, for my 50th birthday, which was many months ago, , I decided that I really wanted to go to Arctic Hive and, , Mollie and Sean who own. Archive. Mollie was on the podcast in 2024 and shared all about their story of building this really cool place and all that.
And so that was how I first found out about it. I don't actually remember how I initially met them, but got to know them a little through the podcast and then. , Met them in person about a year and a half ago and have kind of stayed in touch. And so this wasn't hosted like I paid for this like anyone else would, , because I was not working.
Woo-hoo. And, it was really fun and I just wanted to go for a long time and this felt like a good excuse. And, , I guess I, I should say a little more about what it is for people who haven't heard that episode. So it's an off grid yoga and adventure. Retreat location, and it's in Wiseman, which is along the Dalton Highway about 60 miles north of the Arctic Circle.
So you can drive there most of the way. You have to walk the last mile.
The last
mile,
yes.
Yeah. Final mile. , But otherwise you can, it, it's sort of basically for Alaska. Standards on the road system. So yeah, you could, we gotta
ride from
Fairbanks Drive.
You can drive there in a day from Fairbanks, but Totally.
, It's a day. It's not a quick
Yeah. . We got a ride there, everyone who went to the same retreat as me. So this was in, the end of February. Um, all of us went with Northern Alaska Tour Company for a ride from Fairbanks up there and back. And that was really awesome. So on the way north, it took about nine hours and on the way south it took about, it took a lot longer 'cause there was a little incident on the highway and it was closed for.
Many hours. So, but it
wasn't related to your,
it wasn't related to, it was just
If people are curious, it was a. Tanker truck fire actually on the Elliot Highway, which is between Fairbanks and Live and Good before you get onto the Dalton.
So, mm-hmm. Anyway, that made it take a long time. But yeah, um, I really enjoyed the drive up there actually, especially since I wasn't driving and I was sitting in the back of a van. I really loved that.
Yeah, it's, it's, uh, you know, I have, I have warm fuzzy experiences in the, in my deep pass with, uh, NATC, Northern Alaska Tour Company.
Yeah. Because, uh, as I've mentioned on the pod before, I, for a little while was a tour bus driver driving up the Dalton Highway to Preto Bay. And to my knowledge, nobody drives motor coaches up there anymore, which is good. But, uh, NATC was. Already they've been driving that road as long as anybody on Earth probably.
Yeah.
And they were driving their vans and, and, um, I had a really terrible tour once and things were going wrong and they picked me up in the, in my, our night, which was in the middle of cold foot. And we went up to Wiseman and hung out and it was. Just such a relief to get. That's so cool. And they were just the best people.
I They are, I have, I have a great appreciation for them. ,
That's a great company. Yeah. And actually, um. Matt who owns Northern Alaska Tour Company is gonna be on the pod this summer, so, um,
oh, I didn't know that. That's
awesome. Yeah, yeah. You know, I've been trying to get him to come on for a while.
Yeah, that's
great. I, I wore him down.
You are, uh, you are undefeatable.
Yeah. And then also they have wonderful guides and drivers and um, they
do,
we're actually gonna have an episode with them as well this summer, so.
Oh, that's right.
That's Tim. Yeah, it
was great.
So that's all stuff to look forward to, but it will be a few months before those episodes.
And, and, you know, I, I don't, not to prequel any, any of that, but the Dalton is not an easy road to drive as a professional driver. It's,
no,
it's a gravel. It's called a highway.
It's a gravel road for anyone else.
Yeah,
and you know, it's been on Ice Road truckers driving in the winter in particular. You know, it's a tricky, it's a tricky road and it's largely there just for trucks hauling equipment back and forth to Proto Bay
Yes.
To the oil fields. And so, you know, you're not really the main user when you're on it.
Right. You're not what it's built for
totally.
So it's great to have, uh, you know, experienced professional. Guide drivers. That's awesome.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah. So . When I remember going to Wiseman, which was 30 years ago for the record, uh, there was a whole, there was not a whole lot going on in Wiseman.
It's not exactly, you know, it's not a suburb or anything.
No, it is, it is the very definition of off the beaten track.
It is. I think it's probably as off the beaten track as you can get in Alaska and drive there. That would be my feeling.
I think either Wiseman or the like along the Nebes road on the No side, Northwest side of Wring National Park.
I think those are the two. Most remote places you can drive to in Alaska.
Yeah. The Denali Highway in the middle of the Denali Highway. Yes. Did fairly remote too. Yep. But not, not on this level.
. So Mollie and Sean, um, purchased this property. I think about seven or eight years ago, I'm not sure exactly what year, and they had for a long time this vision of being able to create a retreat, place for people that included yoga, but not only yoga. And, um, again, like definitely go back and listen to the episode about Archive with Mollie, where she talks more about their story.
But, they bought this property, which is I, you know, very close to Wiseman and they have four, cabins for guests. And then they also built their house and then they have a yoga dome, which is really cool. It's got. , Big windows looking out, um, towards the valley in the mountains and the forest. It's really beautiful.
And then they also have a space that they call the igloo, which is. It's also a dome, but it's a different, it's a slightly different style of dome, and that's where like meals are served and things like that. Although they are in the process of building an addition to their home to be the lodge, because right now they have to bring the food back and forth between two buildings, which is kind of a hassle.
So they're mm-hmm. Um, building a way to kind of make that easier. Um, but
especially in the winter.
Yes. And most, um, I guess that's something I should say too, is that they mostly have guests there in the winter. There are a couple things they do not in the winter, but as you well know, Jay, visiting the Arctic in the summer is, um, challenging.
Yes. Like I, I honestly feel like. I have only been above the Arctic Circle in the summer before this trip. And um, well I guess when we did the Dumpster Highway and we went to tuk, another thing we have a whole episode about, um. That was like September, so that it was not mm-hmm. Winter, but it wasn't, it didn't have some of the problems of summer.
Like no world mosquitoes, for example.
Yeah. It, it had definitely Frosted already, which does the mosquitoes a lot of good. Uh,
yeah.
And yeah. And,
and at Arctic Hive, they do have a retreat in September, um, that. Is, you know, not winter oriented, even though, you know, it's freezing at night. There could be snow, but there's not, you can't do things like dog mushing and snowshoeing in September.
Mm-hmm. Um, so that one is a more hiking oriented,, one, but yeah, most of their retreats are between December and April. Mm-hmm. And so mine was late February. Yeah, so that's, that's a little bit about their story and mm-hmm. , As far as what we did, we did yoga every day. And I am not like a person who's super good at yoga or su, I mean, I've definitely done it, but I, you know, yoga's hard for me, and I, I hadn't done it in a long time, and it, and Mollie, who does all the yoga instruction, she's fantastic at.
Adapting her classes to people at different levels.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Um, I, I wanna bring up a very important thing, and you mentioned, you know, dog mushing.
I just wanna bring up Darla.
Darla, I know.
That you had essentially. Almost no connectivity. But you made it work to send me a picture of Darla's to Tufts Did. I did. She's a sweet girl and that was the most important message you could have sent me.
I know
I could.
Yeah, that was
actually Hus Hu Huskies have these great little tufts of fur between their pads.
Yeah. Yep. So Darla is, um, so they have, I believe they have 34 dogs, and they do lots of dog mushing. Darla is more of a lodge and house and guest to dog like she. You know, she comes into the igloo and, she, but she also goes out on hikes and stuff, but she's kind of, I think Mollie described her as, um, a fixture or something.
Mm-hmm. Or something like that. And she definitely,
wait, is she the mayor of Wiseman?
Darla, nearly, I think she
should be. Jennie and I joke around all the time about tiny little towns that. Have a pet. They call their mayor anyway.
Like kinna
tell. Oh yeah. Or any number. But
we're not, we're not, we don't need to con, we don't need to continue talking about the cat mayor.
The cat mayor. It's over. It's overused as it is.
It's overused for sure.
Mm-hmm. So it's been 20 years since we lived in our cabin in Alaska. How was it to go back to using an outhouse at, at what was 40 below, right?
Yeah. I mean, I think the coldest it got to was like 35 below, maybe 38 below. I don't know.
When we were dog mushing down in the valley, it might've been a little colder. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. You know, it's funny because it wasn't that big of a deal. , I was like, oh man. Like you said, it's been, I've certainly used many outhouses in the last 20 years, but not at home
and not as your only option.
Yeah.
You
know, for, for days on end. Yeah.
Right. And so, yeah, I mean, it, it was pretty, you know, they do an amazing job of maintaining their, , their out. I mean, technically they're not outhouses because they're not. Dug into the ground because of the permafrost and all that, so they actually mm-hmm. Carry out the stuff in the hole.
Um, mm-hmm. But, , that doesn't matter for you when you're using it. I mean, these are beautifully maintained, super clean. In the winter, outhouses aren't smelly, which is great. Um, the, they have the very important foam pad to sit on. Mm-hmm. 'cause you can't sit on a, on a, well, you can, but it's terrible to sit on a toilet seat.
When it's that cold,
right. If you think you're toilet seat at
home feels cold. Yeah. Like all of, all of those little touches are kind of unlimited baby wipes to use for everything. So that's important as you know, Jay, when you have an outhouse.. And then they also had, um, p tents where you could just, they were just like a tent, you know?
And you just pee in the snow. But that was cool because then it's not snowing on you while you're just outside. And as you know, I like peanut outside better than in an outhouse. So I thought that was a great setup
as we, this
is, yeah. But I think, I think it's one of those things and you know, many of the people, so there was a group of seven people on my retreat.
. Most of them. Some of them, I mean, everybody had like peed outside, but like, not everyone had used an outhouse like this, I don't think. And everyone seemed fine like it, it wasn't.
I think that's also true of the cold. Mollie and Sean do a great job of making sure that you're warm inside and that you're well prepared with what to bring and what to wear at various temperatures. So if, if this is like appealing to you, but you're freaked out by like, what will happen to me if it's really cold or, but you know, you'll be fine.
If it appeals to you, you'll be fine. You, you're like, I'm scared and intimidated, but I, I wanna do this. Like, don't worry about it. You know, I didn't have to worry about that so much as, you know, Jay, because I've lived in a climate with these temperatures. I've lived in a dry cabin for two years, so I, I, that wasn't an unknown.
It wasn't a new Yeah, it wasn't a new, but on the other hand, it's been a while.
Yeah. 20 years is a long time. And, and as you know, Jay, every time I go. To Fairbanks or anywhere else in the interior in the winter. I always have this moment, you know, because we live in Western Washington now, and I'm like, will I die when it's minus 12?
Will I just, well, I just freeze to death and then I'm like, well, I didn't when I lived there. But you know, then you know how I get into my head about like, well, I don't have the same boots and the same jacket that I had when I lived there. I do have a couple of the same things, but not
boots you get, you get into your head.
Little Wow, that's, that's news to me. Weird. We'll have to talk
about
that. Sometimes my boots aren't warm enough, but you know, it's fine. Right. And I know that. Mm-hmm. So I get it for people who like wanna have this cool winter adventure in this beautiful place, but are afraid. Of the cold. I get it.
But also you'll be fine. And as soon as I got there and like the first morning that it was like minus 30, I was like, oh yeah, this is fine. Of course this is fine. Mm-hmm. I knew this would be fine.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Anyway. And yeah, and you know, I think we've talked about this before when I've been on, but both of us, I think our coldest lifetime experiences as far as body experience of cold are not below zero moments in.
The, you know, interior Alaska, like I, yeah. My coldest temperature I've experienced is minus 62,
which is really cold
minus, mine is minus
56.
But, but I would say my type three coldest experiences of my life, all, were experienced elsewhere.
Yeah.
And the temperature is significantly above that.
Yeah.
, So, you know, you, it's perfectly possible to experience like that without, you know, and it's, I think the cold is kind of. It's one thing if you have to live in it day in and day out. Yeah. But it's pretty cool if you're not.
Yeah.
You know, it's,
it's very different to be there for a week versus to live in those temperatures for months on end, which I try to always be mindful of when I'm visiting Uhhuh and I'm like, Ooh. Like,
yeah.
Everyone else is over it. Jennie, you need to tamp it down.
Yeah. Take a take a minute. Yeah. I think that's, that's
especially this winter.
'cause this winter. Wow. Listeners, if you're not aware, this winter, especially in interior Alaska and the Alaska range, it
was a brutal winter.
Not so much in the Arctic, weirdly, but like in Fairbanks, Denali National Park, it has been very cold this winter. Um,
and oddly, a lot of snow, which in Fairbanks and it's a lot of snow, it's fairbank, very weird.
Fairbank. It's usually one, one or the other. In Fairbanks, , snow in Fairbanks is associated with warm weather. And cold is usually dry, and so they've had cycles back and forth all winter.
Yep.
It's really weird. Yeah. Yeah. I think ev, everyone that I know that I still, still stay in touch with in Fairbanks is really over winter.
Yes.
As of this recording in early March.
Oh, absolutely. Yes.
Yeah, they're, they're, they're ready.
Yeah.
, I wanted to,, ask about the Northern Lights experience.
Yeah.
Because you sent me some pictures that were pretty cool.
Yeah, it was pretty cool. So one thing that I think, , even if you're not going to the Arctic, if you're, if you're going to Fairbanks in the winter, , and the Arctic is even more true this way, especially where I was so.
One thing that people, and this has come up on the podcast before, so some of you have heard me and our, and Jay and our guests talk about this in the past, but the forecast, the KP index and all that stuff isn't super meaningful in that location because you are directly under the Aurora Oval. The place where there is an aurora a lot of the time now, not always right, but um, most of the time if it's clear and dark, you're going to see something.
Um, so. Because I've heard people say things like, oh, I was in Fairbanks, but like, you know, the KP index didn't look that high, so I just went to bed. And it's like, well that doesn't, that matters if you're looking at the Aurora in like Michigan, , or probably Southeast Alaska to you. But in, there are many other factors, and we've talked about this in other episodes, so I won't like get into it here, that determine.
Like the KP index is kind of overblown as a measure. So I just wanna say that again. So when we were there, , so I was there for five days and there were, there was one night that, where there was a lot of snow and it was very overcast. And so of course we didn't see in Aurora then, , also it was a new moon while I was there, which is kind of cool 'cause that makes the sky darker overall.
, So the first night. It was also snowy when we got there and we had, , dinner and then we did some yoga and, you know, it was snowing, snowing, snowing, overcast. And then I went outside, , afterwards and I was like, oh, hey everybody, the lights are out. . So it had cleared briefly and there was a great Aurora for like an hour or two, and then it clouded over again and started snowing.
So that was kind of cool. And then the second night, , it was really clear and there was a really nice aurora, and then the, the third night there wasn't much Aurora. And that was actually really a fun treat for me because. I got to see so many stars, you know, which I don't normally get to see living in a cloudy place near a city. Or a lot of times when I'm in Alaska, it's in the summer and it's not dark. So that was really exciting for me. You know, there wasn't a visible aurora that night, but as you know, Jay, when I brought my cameras in that had that I set up as time lapses, the cameras, , with longer exposures, they did pick up in Aurora, even though you couldn't see it.
That night, just with your eyes. So,
yeah.
It kind of is there most of the time, but you, and I would say, I think you can tell me if you disagree, that if the aurora, the aurora's not visible to the naked eye, I would say it's not out. I agree.
Yeah.
Yeah. So yes, you can pick it up with your camera. But you know, in the last couple years while we, while we've been in the solar maximum and the lower 48 has been seen more auroras, people will get them with their camera.
And I've had, which is awesome, but I've had people ask me like, oh, you can see it with your naked eye? And I'm like, yes, you can.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And it's really amazing. It's even more amazing than getting a good photo. So it was just another reminder that like. The night sky when you're in a place with no light pollution and no moon is incredible with or without an aurora.
And I got to see both. For me, that was pretty amazing. Um, but yeah, we had lots of really nice auroras while we were there. And. That was a really fun treat.
Mm-hmm. My favorite photo, I think of the, well, it was a video, but you made a time lapse of a star trail.
Yeah.
Slowly rotating over overhead too, and that it's.
At the night sky when there's not an aurora is still worthy of paying attention to.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Cool. It was really cool. I think the one other thing I would mention that we haven't talked about yet that was really fun was getting to go dog mushing. That's always such a wonderful highlight of winter in the parts of Alaska.
Where you can do dog mushing, which includes the Arctic., It was just really fun to go along the river and be with the dogs. And it had been a couple years since I'd had that experience and. Was really, that was really fun. I really enjoyed that. Mm-hmm. There are also, you know, there, I didn't go on some of the group hikes because,, I am a slow hiker and so I decided to just go for some chill walks closer by, by myself and that was great.
So I think that's another thing I would say if you're like kind of intrigued by this experience, , just know that every activity is op. Optional, other than, you know, you do have to be able to get there. So you have to be able to walk for a mile in the snow., You don't have to carry your bags. They do that for you.
Um, but, you know, if, if you want to like not engage in an activity, that's totally fine. And I loved kind of the mix of things to do in downtime. That was a really nice mix for me. And I
don't, maybe did, I don't remember if you mentioned this earlier or not, but how many people were there?
There were seven guests, including me.
Yeah. Okay. And then our hosts Mollie and Sean. Yeah. And you know, they did a great job when it gets down there, pushing 40 below, like keeping everything working. As you know, Jay is just a ton of work behind the scenes and you know, tinkering with the oil heaters and the different cabins and they were so on top of that and just did a really great job of making sure.
Making sure everything we needed was taken care of. And that was such a treat for me. I really loved
that. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
So I think I'll, wrap up with, with a, a question about, about packing?
Oh yeah.
Clothes. Like what would you do any different or what did you see other guests who were not familiar, anything that you think they would, would identify as a, something they would or wouldn't have brought with them or something they would do differently next time?
Yeah. You know, if I had been working Jay, I would've asked everybody that when we were driving back. Right. Okay. So, so let's see. I think for me, um, I felt pretty good about what I packed, like I said. Mollie and Sean give great guidance about what to bring. , They prepare you for the fact that, you know, it might be 40 below, it might be 20 above.
It might be both of those while you're there, you kind of have to be ready for, for all of that. Mm-hmm. I, so I did have the advantage of being familiar with that climate, even though, you know, we did see 35 below a lot of the time, and it's been 20 years since I've been in that cold of a temperature.
I think one big takeaway as, and I know packing is something people are always interested in, , I, I was reminded that you can make things work if what you have isn't quite perfect if you're visiting, right? Mm-hmm. So when we lived in Fairbanks, I owned what we call pack boots, which are. Very warm, very insulated boots.
You know, I don't know. They're rated, which doesn't mean that much down to like 40 below or, or whatever. , There's the bunny boots that have been remade in Alaska. You know, a lot of locals have those that are. The classic bunny boots like that the military made, and then no one made them anymore. But there's a company called Alaska Gear Company that's making them, again, those are great boots, and if I lived in Fairbanks, I would absolutely own them.
There were several people who had gotten 'em for the trip, or Mollie and Sean had them, and they were like, these are amazing. But that's also an investment of two or $300, depending on what time of year it is. Mm-hmm. And I didn't feel like that was in the budget, as you know, and I was like. I'm gonna make it work with my snow boot, my snow boots that I have now, which are warm.
Mm-hmm.
And , I know they're fine down to like 20 below 'cause I've worn them in Fairbanks at 20 below a lot. But they're not as warm as bunny boots. That's just the way it is. And I was like, this needs to be fine. Mm-hmm. And it was right. So I guess my point is. You do need warm boots to go into Sub-Zero temperatures for sure, but if the ones you have are not quite perfect, there are many things you can do.
Like, um, making sure there's enough room around your feet that's really important, right? So they're not too tight and that you can wear socks and that the air can still stay warm in there around your feet and you can wiggle your toes. Um, so I have really warm wool mountaineering socks. That have lasted me for like at least 20 years.
I've probably had them 30 years. I have two pairs of those. Those were awesome. And my feet did get cold once, and that was dog mushing. And that was because my feet were cold when I put them in my boots. And I thought that was fine. 'cause I was using toe warmers, which I don't use very often, and I didn't.
Those are like the chemical little packets that those are awesome. But mine didn't work. And then it was like 40 below and I was just sitting in the dog sled, but it was still okay. Right? Like my feet were cold. But you know, after a while I told Mollie, I was like, I think I probably need to get out of the dog sled for my feet.
And she was like, no problem. You know, and I still had plenty of time. I was fine. Right. So, um. That was the only time it was an issue, and I could have avoided that by, , making sure that my toe warmers were working, or even just that my feet were warm when I put them in the boots at the beginning, right?
Mm-hmm.
So
I'm just sharing that example as like. Yes, you need some gear. You know, you can't wear flip flops or Crocs or tennis shoes in the arctican winter outdoors. Mm-hmm. You just can't. Right. But if your boots aren't quite the perfect thing that a local would have. There's a lot you can do to make it work, I guess.
Right? And that also goes for things like layering, you know, people, including me, always recommend having layers for Alaska, and that is a good way to go. But like if you live in Fairbanks, as you know, Jay. You can't, you can't layer your coats. You need one enormous coat.
Mm-hmm.
And that's what you need, right?
Well, my enormous coat isn't as warm as the one I had when I lived there, so I wore a giant sweater under it when it was minus 40. Mm-hmm. That would be annoying if I lived there, but for a week it was great. Right. So I guess I would just, and this applies to summer as well, you know, you can. And I'm actually gonna do an episode in the near future about packing for the summer.
But I think the point is, yes, there are some things that you need, but also you do not have to invest hundreds or thousands of dollars in a whole new wardrobe for a trip.
Yeah, no, that's, that's great. I think that would be a worry, you know, would be like, do I have to buy all this stuff? And that's good to know.
Probably if you, if you live in Florida, you're going to have to buy some stuff.
Yeah.
But you know, if you live in a cold climate or a climate that ever gets cold or you have anything for cold weather, you can probably, make it work.
, Anything else you wanna say before we close out?
Actually there is one thing, Jay. Part of what made this such a wonderful experience is that I was there for five days and. That time to be in one place. Mm-hmm. And, and really, mm-hmm. It was just another reminder. And I know that I am incredibly lucky that I lived in Alaska for many years, that I've, I've chosen a career where I spend, you know, 10 or 12 weeks there every year.
So I'm aware that that, but you know, I still have a long list of things I'd love to do in Alaska. That may not ever happen. Right? So it's so. Amazing to just be in one place for a time and be like, what is the Arctic like in February? What birds are here? Mm-hmm. There's a lot. Mm-hmm. What people are here.
Yeah. You have time to get to know them. You have time to ask questions. You have time to understand what this place is like and, and sort of let it really get in you, which is really magical and so
mm-hmm.
Even if this isn't. If this is the experience for you, then you should do it. I mean, this is an incredible thing, but if it's not for you, whatever you're doing on your trip, give yourself some time somewhere.
Even if, even if you're going to Alaska for a week and you're certain you'll never go again. I still say go deeper in fewer places. It's gonna be a better experience. And this was just one more. One more confirmation of that for me.
Well, if you just think about what, and, and no shade on folks who do this, but you know, most people who will ever go on the Dalton do a sub one day trip to drive to the Arctic Circle and across it.
Yep. Yeah.
And go back so that they have the experience of, you know, checking that off and just think about how much more you got out of this.
Yeah,
than you would from from that.
. , Jay,, thanks for letting me talk about this and letting me bring this story to everybody.
To our listeners, I she has been talking about this since the day she landed.
It's true.
Getting back, and so she's pretty excited about it.
It's true.
It's, it's not just for the podcast.
It's not,
but
I'm glad I got to share it with all of you. Thanks, Jay.
Mm-hmm. Bye-bye.
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