Crossing the Arctic Circle from Fairbanks with Matt Atkinson

Matt Atkinson from Northern Alaska Tour Company, sits down with Jennie to talk about exploring the Arctic and crossing the Arctic Circle and how to decide the best way to do it. 

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Transcript

 📍 Welcome to the Alaska Uncovered Podcast with me, your host, Jennie Thwing Flaming, my occasional co-host and full-time husband, Jay, and I bring you accurate, helpful, and entertaining information about Alaska Travel and life in Alaska. before we get into today's episode, you wanna be getting my email newsletter. It is timely topics related to Alaska travel, and it is different content from what is in the podcast episodes. I share trip reports, destination guides, all different things like that. So if you're not already on there, go to the link in the show notes and get on there, and you get a free packing list when you sign up, which is pretty cool as well. Everyone wants to know what to pack. All right. Enjoy the show My guest today is Matt Atkinson, and Matt is one of the three owners of the Northern Alaska Tour company, along with his two, two of his childhood friends. They started this company in 1987 in Fairbanks, and we're gonna talk about kind of adventures you can do all over Northern Alaska today. Matt, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. Looking forward to it. Yeah, me too. I don't know if I've ever told you this before, but I went on one of your tours in 1992 when I was- Thank you in high school with my family. It was pretty awesome, and I could, we could talk more about that later. But I was, you know, a high school student, but I was the kind of high school student that enjoyed looking at scenery for many hours on a road trip, so it was perfect 'cause we went to the Arctic Circle. It was great. It does take many hours and, uh- It does take many hours ... appreciate you taking the time. That was probably the booking that got us over the edge and, uh, moved us forward. Matt, I'd love to start by asking you what I ask everyone who comes on the podcast. How did you get to Alaska? Well, I got to Alaska, I was born at, born and raised in Fairbanks. Mm-hmm. So , my grandparents actually were, brought me here. My grandparents on my mother's side came up when she was in third grade, so she was a Denali Elementary School, , kid and Lathrop High School graduate. And then- Awesome ... I came along, and my dad, uh, came up, um, out of, from Wisconsin, , in seventh grade, I think. And my, my grandparents came up from the orchard country in Wisconsin to work at a dairy , in Fairbanks at Carnation Dairy. Oh, wow. So I was, was born and raised here, but that's how my folks... Grandparents came up and brought my parents as, you know, children essentially- Mm-hmm ... and then I came along. So- Love that Alaska f- is, Fairbanks is home for me. Yes- And I- ... grew up here. Went, went to college outside just to try that out a little bit, but figured I'd always wanna come back, and, uh, we've good opportunities here. Matt, can you just tell everyone also a little bit about how you and your two friends started Northern Alaska Tour Company? I know you were quite young when you did that, so can you- Yeah, it would be- ... share a little bit about that? ... difficult to do nowadays with the age and insurance and commercial driving, uh, uh, requirements and that kinda thing. Yes , it's true. But kinda started with, with, uh, one of, one of our, our friends, Brett, had worked with, uh, w- what was at the time the Fairbanks Convention and Visitors Bureau and had the Log Cabin Visitor Center downtown. So worked as , a guest service host there, answering questions. At that time, in, you know, mid-'80s, the rubber tire traffic or the RV traveler was real prominent up here. Had, um, three or four RV parks in town, and that was a lot of the business for independent travelers were people driving up, doing an epic road trip to Alaska. And at that time also, there was an interest in people traveling to the Arctic Circle for whatever reason out there in the ethos as far as the allure of the Arctic and that, bucket list kind of benchmark to get there geographically on the globe. But there was a lot of confusion at the time as to whether the road was open, because that was the Trans-Alaska Pipeline Service company road. Limited services and a lot of trepidation about, the condition of road if people wanted to travel, especially in the RVs that they have to travel 4,000 miles back down to the lower 48 states. Yes . So, so one- Ideally with all the sewer hoses and everything still attached- Exactly. Yeah ... in a dream world. So, so that, um, in fact, so there was a demand there, um, but trepidation to, for people to go on their own. So it seemed like there was a niche to be able to provide that tour service from Fairbanks to the Arctic Circle. Now, at that time, there were already ex- early on excursions with,, Gray Line of Alaska were going all the way to Prudhoe Bay, um, as part of their cruise tour itineraries, but there was no day tours to the Arctic Circle. So, so that first year we, and probably in the summer of '86, I think there was one excursion north, kind of a test run in a Suburban And then the next year we got the,, purchased a Ford E350 van, which would have a 10-person capacity, and began selling and promoting those tours through rack cards and distribution of those rack cards, and sales at the local RV parks. And so that was the niche, , having the RV travelers that wanted to go north up to the Arctic Circle. Now, so we know there's a market. That's good, and then we were filling in that, that void, you know, picking a po- a spot on the playing field where there wasn't anybody else. But then we had to learn quickly to be able to craft a tour and an experience and an interpretation that would make it a fun day. 'Cause you were mentioning ... you know, is it worth it to drive up to the Arctic Circle and drive back? Uh, we would contend that it probably wouldn't have, um, have longevity if you were just to drive up and drive back like a taxi ride. Yes. So you have to craft an experience because there is a very rich cultural and natural history- Yes and a fascinating story of that region, I mean, the industrial history, um, with the pipeline. But you have to put that together and craft a day that is, um, enjoyable and kind of epic. So- Yeah ... so we had to learn that early on. We would provide snacks, uh, lunches, stops every couple hours apart at least for the outhouse facilities that are available or not available along the road. And, um, so started to craft a day that would incorporate the cultural history, natural history, industrial history, and, um, stories of those people that lived in the region. Yeah. And to make it a day, you know, people would come back real commonly, "Boy, that was a long day and tiring, but ma- man, that was fun, and we learned so much." Yeah. So that was a key part of it, is learning the, um, the art and science of crafting an experience that is gonna be worthwhile for people, that they're gonna go out of their way to tell people about it. And it's not for everybody, so- Yeah ... we also learned that setting expectations at a level we can meet or exceed is very important. Early on, that was word of mouth through the RV parks, and they would write out a voucher, sell the tours. Or, , the Mile Post guidebook was where we, our first advertising dollars were spent because- Yes ... our, those are our people coming up in the Mile Post. That's right. We're coming into Fairbanks. Yeah. Arctic Circle Adventure, so give a call. So we would, um, we were early adapters on cell phones, so we could be purchasing potato rolls and muffins for the next day's picnic on the banks of the Yukon River- Yeah ... while taking phone calls, um- Yes ... for reservations. Yeah. And, you know, listeners, if you're- younger than me, um, you may not know that, like, back in the day there was a time when you would, like, call a tour company on a phone with buttons, and then they would answer, and then you would book a tour, and then you would get, like, a ticket, like a paper. Yeah. Or you would just have your name- Before e-tickets and then you would use that paper to then go and go on a tour. Um- It was very analog. You're, you- Yes ... you bring up a good point, Jennie. So in the service at the RV parks, so someone would pull in with their RV coming from Delta or from Denali, which direction they would be happen to be coming in. You know, generally one of the first questions, "Well, what should we do in Fairbanks?" Again, pre-internet, pre- Yes ... um, cellphones, any of that, so that local connection and word of mouth was very important. Yeah. So the person at the tour de- at the RV check-in desk would be very happy to say, "Well, you know, we, you can do the Riverboat Discovery, you can do an Arctic Circle tour." And at that point then they would be able to essentially sell the tour- Yep write a voucher, and they would get a commission on that sale. Mm-hmm. And then we would swing by the RV parks to do our, day-long adventure with them. Yeah. And this was all by land. It was a good, good proving ground for us because the RV traveler has got time, you know? They're, they were here for multiple days, so a 16-hour ground tour was not outside the realm of, , possibility they're used to doing long days on the Alaska Highway, had been well-conditioned getting up here. And one of the things that we always thought was kind of a, a benefit for the local community too is that somebody doing one of those Arctic Circle drive adventures, as w- uh, we come to call it, the original, is gonna stay at least two nights in Fairbanks. So,, when it gets into the hotel, folks, they're paying a bed tax on either side of that 'cause- Right ... you're gonna need to be here the day before. We're gonna get you out, wear you out all day the next day, and then you're- Yeah ... gonna need to spend a night before you head out. Or hopefully stay longer. Definitely. Yeah. For sure. You know, Matt, something that's come up a lot on this podcast is how important it is to just ask people who are locals for their suggestions. And, you know, you were saying, like, back in the day, like, folks at the RB- RV park would talk to people, sell the tour, but that is still how it works kind of. I mean, you know, people book things on the internet, but in Alaska in particular, people are very eager to tell you their ideas about where they are or be, and I'm that way too. Like, people, people wanna help you have a good time, and, we've talked a- so many times with different guests about, like- Call me. I'll tell you if my tour is a good fit, and if it isn't, I'll send you to somebody else. And, um, so I think that's a really cool thing about Alaska, and something that maybe hasn't changed too much, uh, even though all the mechanics around it, of course, are all different, like the way people pay and book and that kind of thing. Sure. And w- word of mouth is, is super important, and I think that that's a, an interesting topic that you bring up, Jennie, 'cause I, I have a, a bit of a mixed approach. Mm-hmm. So what we do in Fairbanks, Arctic is not top of mind for local people, for example. Yeah. Um, so a lot of people in Fairbanks wanna go to Valdez to go fishing, Homer to go fishing, maybe, uh, go to Hawaii to warm up. So a guest- Yes. And this is just a little bit different take. So a guest coming in may be very excited, is gonna do one of our three-day, two-night Arctic Ocean adventures in the summertime. And, um, which is a ground tour from Fairbanks to Coldfoot. Yeah. Overnight at Coldfoot. Coldfoot to Prudhoe Bay. Overnight there at Prudhoe Bay at Deadhorse Camp, and then fly back. Yeah. So you really, three-quarters of the journey is, the fun. Getting through the Brooks Range, across- Yeah ... the Continental Divide, down the North Slope. Oftentime there is, you know, caribou or muskox, depending on the time of the year. So it's really i- at the beginning or the end of the, um, the, the Transcontinental Highway- Mm-hmm ... that w- where we go all. So it's pretty epic. But- Yeah ... a common, um, comment might be they're on their Alaska Airlines flight coming in excited, and they're telling a local person about their upcoming trip to Prudhoe Bay on the Dalton Highway, and they're like, "Why the hell would you do, wanna do that?" Yeah, that's true. You know? Because, because it's something that people... "Oh, heck, my uncle works up there, and it sucks." Yeah. "And I heard that road is horrible, the truckers are..." So, so sometimes that local perspective doesn't necessarily help. Or for the example- That's a good point ... in, in Aurora viewing- Yes you know, somebody... And we've-- I was born and raised here, and have done it enough to where you might be scheduled on a night that it is snowing, and the KP index- Right ... is low. But what we find, it's kinda like fishing. You're only gonna catch fish if there's a line in the water, so we go regardless. Right. Yeah. And we have a venue 60 miles out of town to get away from light interference. Yeah. I've been surprised enough times where, you know, it, well, it looks like it's gonna be pretty slow pickings tonight, but at 10 or 15 minutes clearing up a little bit is all it takes- Yeah ... to make one's trip. Yeah. So, so that person coming to our terminal and the taxi driver saying, "Well, I don't know why you're going tonight, it's gonna be terrible." Yeah. Doesn't really help. So our- You know, that's a really good point. Yeah ... our travel, compatriots and, and fellow visitor industry folks- Yeah ... are good, good sources of information. But sometimes the local guys are... Because what we're doing is so different. Why would you wanna come here in the wintertime? Yeah. The crisp, cold is interesting. You know, in Fairbanks- It is ... we get snow, and it stays that way, and it really is beautiful. And we have- Yeah ... um, have guests that come up from other parts of northern latitude places in the, in the country certainly, you know, all over the world. And some of the things that can be, you know, 30 below, short days, extended twilight can be tough for locals, are really interesting for visitors. Yes. It lets us see, some of those things that can, can get old over the course of winter- Yeah ... um, through a visitor's eyes that make it really unique and super interesting. Yeah. You know, that's funny because I have the perspective of both living in Fairbanks for five years, but also visiting for the- Yeah ... many years since I moved back to Washington, and it's different, right? I mean, it's... I ha- I try to remember that, 'cause I like to go in March because March is such a magical time of winter. Pretty cool, yeah. And I get up there, and I'm pumped about it, and I just have to remember when you live there, you tend to be real over winter by that point. So I always try to be cool and, like, not get too enthusiastic, but it is totally different. If it's super cold and you're there for a week, big deal. You know, after a few months it can get old, for sure. Yeah. And I also think, since we were talking about aurora viewing, um, that's really different too because when you live in Fairbanks, you see the auroras so often you don't really make a special effort unless you're a tour guide. Whereas if you're visiting..., I never set an alarm for 2:00 AM to get up and look for the aurora when I lived there, but I do now when I visit, you know? Yeah. ' Cause I'm usually not going to work the next day, or if I am, then I don't set the alarm. But it's, it's really interesting the different perspective of locals and visitors, for sure. Yeah. Sure. And you can miss... I mean, yeah, if you go to bed at 8:00 every night and wake up at 8:00, you could miss aurora for big chunks of time. But if we're stacking the deck, you know, g- guests are coming up at the right time of the year, it gets dark- We're getting it, putting it either at the right place of the globe, and then we do kind of stack the deck a little bit in our favor by going out that 10:00 PM to 2:00 AM- Yes range, or even later. A lot of times it's 9:00 to about 3:30 or 4:00. Yeah. So you're forcing people to stay up, which as a, person that's doing day-to-day life sometimes doesn't really work. Yes. You're gonna catch it early in the morning or late at night if you happen to be out. But for what we find is that for someone making a concerted effort and spending four or five nights, um, either in Fairbanks or north of Fairbanks- Yep the chances are pretty good, to see up here. And we don't get too- Definitely ... too quantitative on that, just because you have the factors of, of, uh, cloud cover or weather. Um, but I'm sure somebody's doing the stats on it, and it's, it's- Yeah ... globally we're very strong, and we're fortunate in that. Very. Yeah. Yep.. Okay. By the way listeners, um, if you have not already gathered, Northern Alaska Tour Company does both summer and winter tours., So we'll come back to that in a minute, but that's good to know. So Matt, can you talk a little bit about the Arctic as an environment? So I will put words in your mouth and say you're saying people who live in Alaska don't always appreciate the Arctic, and I, I agree with that. There are Alaskans who truly, really love the Arctic, many of them. So I'm curious if you could just share with everybody a little bit about what makes... First of all, what is the Arctic, and then what makes it kind of a special and unique place that's worth a visit? Sure. Well, I, I think that,.. so initially our interest, or the interest from our, our guests is Arctic Circle. Yep. So the Arctic Circle, like the equator or the Antarctic Circle, is one of these geographical or the farthest north point or the farthest, south, or, points on the, on the globe have an allure for people. So the Arctic Circle is latitude 66 degrees 33 minutes, and it's this point on the globe where you have a true 24-hour day and a true 24-hour night. So that's the, the significance of it. So if you go to mile 115 on the Dalton Highway where the Arctic Circle crosses that area, you can go up, you have to go a little further north to get, uh, out of the way of the hill, and watch the sun not set on the summer solstice. So you can have a true 24-hour day, and it, the sun will just skim across the Brooks Range and never go down the, below the horizon- And then conversely, in the wintertime, the, um, you could go up there and watch the sun not set. So you have a little ambient light on the horizon, but the sun's not gonna come above the horizon. So that's the, the definition, and it gets further- Yeah ... and further extreme as you go further north. So for example, in Utqiagvik, the sun will rise on May 10th and doesn't set until August 2nd. Mm-hmm. So that the sun will just circle around the horizon. Yep. And then you have about 64 days in the wintertime where the sun doesn't come up above the horizon. Yeah. Now, excuse me. We do have, um, it isn't dark the whole time. We have, um, what I like to call extended twilight, which is very beautiful and somewhat magical. You get the purples and the greens of, of that sun casting off the snow and the trees. Um, so you do have some ambient light. It's never really pitch dark. So I remember as a kid going to Minnesota in the middle of the summertime, it was very strange to have a wa- one, that it's a hot evening and it's dark, and you can't see your hand in front of your face. Yeah. Where typically here we have, you know, either b- with moonlight or, um, reflection off of the snow, aurora, where it was more of always a dusk. Yeah. Um, and that, that's, that's kinda cool. Yeah. So, so that's the definition of the Arctic. And then in imagery, whether it's literature, um, cinema, the Arctic captivates a place in people's hearts, whether it's the, the wildlife, the, , polar bear, the indigenous people, the Inupiat or the Yupik images of the Arctic Ocean, uh, whaling. These things have captured the imagination of travelers for a long time, and the Arctic Circle is kind of that gateway, a chance to say that you were there. Yeah. Whether it's summer or winter, you get those e- extremes. And then we get a little more granular in our particular route, you, with the discovery of oil in Prudhoe Bay and the access of that region, both for aviation and land traffic, um, to the Brooks Range and what, what became, , crafted as the Gates of the Arctic National Park,, which is another big thing. Present times, there's people that really, um, kinda have it on their life list to visit every national park in the country. Mm-hmm. And so Gates is a tough one to get to. We can get- It is ... there as well as, uh- So tough ... Kobuk Valley Dunes National Monument is another place that we can go to through when we've got into aviation over the years. So the Arctic is able to check a lot of, um, lifetime achievement lists for people, whether it's through the national parks, the Brooks Range, the type of wildlife one might encounter, and, um- That's what we built our business on. Mm-hmm. It's that, that desire to, to get into the Arctic. Yeah. It's so, it's so, um, cool that you guys do, you know, you really focus on... A- and I know you go to some other places as well, but, like, on this area that's so captivating and so few people get to see, uh, it's really cool. Yeah. Yeah, we're pretty vertically integrated. Fairbanks North, we do have some summertime operations in Denali. Yep. But even then, you know, so we do, which is, is awesome, but we offer Arctic extur- excursions from Denali National Park too for those that don't make it up into Fairbanks. They can still get up into the Brooks Range up to Coldfoot with... We made talk about that we not only do ground tours, but a lot of ground and air excursions as well to make it a little more accessible in a shorter amount of time for folks. Yes, and I want to come back to that as well. Let's talk a little bit about the Dalton Highway. , So you've got Fairbanks, and then you get on the Elliott Highway, and then you get to the Yukon River, and then you get to the Arctic Ocean, and then you get to the Brooks Range, and then you get to Prudhoe Bay. So how far are those places apart from each other? Like, I- Yeah ... I just wanna give people a sense of the scale of, like, how much space we're talking about, how much ground- Sure ... we're covering in this conversation. Yeah. That's, it's good for people to understand that and to know. So, so to answer the question, right off the bat, between Fairbanks and Prudhoe Bay, so where oil was discovered, the start of the Trans-Alaska Pipeline, is 500 miles. And when that oil was discovered in nine- 19- 1968, and we wanted to get the oil to market, there was no road. Yep. So the road ended about 70 miles north of Fairbanks at a place called Livengood. Mm-hmm. So that's the Elliott Highway that you mentioned. Mm-hmm. So there was a, a trail or a road out to Livengood, and then it was the, um, Trans-Alaska Pipeline Service Company that built the road between Prudhoe Bay and connecting to the Elliott Highway at Livengood. Yep. So presently, and originally that was just a construction road. So- Yeah ... the route was put in, and there were things like river crossings and, uh, habitat, and all of these things were taken into account as far as the exact route, maybe specifically to not go, go right through the indigenous communities of Anaktuvuk Pass and Stevens Village. Yep. They wanted to stay a little bit away from those communities, not to change the character of the, of the villages. Yeah. Originally it was, the road was only open for construction. Um, they put in the camps along the way for workers to live- And then once, pipeline was completed in 1977, a few more years the, the TAPS company,, maintained the road, then it was transferred over to the state of Alaska. Mm-hmm. And so at this point, the state of Alaska owns the road, maintains the road. The land along the road is, roughly, you know, a just a very small percentage of private land. Yeah. And the Bureau of Land Management,, has a portion of the road, and the state of Alaska has another part as far as... And there's a corridor where you can't use motorized ve- vehicles within five miles of either side of the road for hunting, for example. Yep. . And it's been a effective, um, control mechanism. Yeah. So if somebody's wanting to hunt up in there, you have to hike, or there's a few places where you can take a raft to float outside the corridor of the road. Yeah. And that really has maintained the wilderness character of the road. Yeah. So back to your question as far as now that we have a road that is maintained to greater degrees or lesser degrees than others, , between Fairbanks and the Yukon River is 140 miles. And at the Yukon River there are services. There's, restaurants, um- Yeah ... that's open year-round. A truck stop for getting fuel, get diesel or gasoline. And that would be an important, pit stop for if you're just gonna go to the Arctic Circle, 'cause the Arctic Circle then is 60 miles north of the Yukon River, so that's 200 miles north of Fairbanks. In a, lot of, places you'll see different mileages that Fairbanks is from the Arctic Circle, 120 comes up a lot, and it might be if you flew directly to the Arctic Circle from Fairbanks as the crow flies, the shortest point. But for realistically, if you're ground touring, it's a couple hundred miles. Yeah. Um, so- So Matt, it's 200 miles. What, so that takes, right, like three hours going 70 miles an hour, right? On a, on a freeway, yes, it would. So the road is, is, has gotten better over the years- Mm-hmm ... for sure since we, since we started. But it is primarily gravel road, and there is truck traffic, so we're talking, you know, f- four to six hours to the Arctic Circle, um, when we're traveling, by small motor coach and stopping and doing different things along the way. That's gonna be, a 16-hour round trip. Yeah. So eight hours each way. If you were going up in your own vehicle it could be less than that, but you would miss out on some of the things that you wanna do. stop and do and see along the way And also, I'm sorry, but, like, you and I, well, you I'm sure still are, I have been a professional driver. There is no way that you can drive for seven hours without stopping. You cannot do that I agree with that, yes. As a commercial motor- No matter what. Even if it's, like, a perfect freeway with nothing to look at, which is not the case on the Dalton Highway, um, you're gonna have to stop You, you will have to stop- You just do for, you know, biological reasons- Yes ... as well as just stretching your legs and all of that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. , And really the road is, it's not h- horrible. You know, a lot of p- people that we'll speak with that are maybe bringing up a rental car or have their own vehicle, um, now there are only certain rental companies that will allow travel up north. Yes. Most, national branded companies don't allow that. But it is, is possible. But really, you know, the average speed is probably 40 miles an hour., And you really have to just pay attention the, the whole time. Yeah. So it's not like you can get on the freeway and kinda zone out and not pay attention, 'cause there's enough curves, um, different grades, changing road conditions, whether it's washboard or, you know, l- loose gravel, that you really just have to kinda be alert. Yeah, definitely. And those shoulder, I not... I was gonna say shoulder. It doesn't have shoulders, but like, you know, the edges- Yeah, the edges of the road ... the edges of the road. Yeah. The edges of the road are, can be variable and there's drop-offs- Yeah ... so you wanna, maintain, good coverage in the center part of the road that's harder. Yeah. And there is, there is truck ra- traffic, traffic up and down the road. Yeah. So whether it's supplies for the pipeline or actual pipe casings or fuel back and forth, we're starting to haul, uh, liquified natural gas from Prudhoe Bay back into Fairbanks for our- Yep ... um, for heating needs. And, um, they have the right of way and so we always slow down for oncoming traffic. Yeah. You know, it is very analog. You talked about having to call tour operators. We still use CB radios on the- Yeah ... on the Dalton Highway for line of sight communication with the other vehicles. Yep. And that's real important, 'cause you're not gonna get on a cell phone and call somebody w- you wouldn't know their number. Yeah. Um, but a CB radio just to call out one's intentions, um- Right ... as far as stopping or slowing down or turning out of the road,, is real important. So we- Yeah ... we value that as a tour, tour company. And- Yes ... get good feedback that our, operators are calling out, operating very conservatively, giving right of way to truckers or other vehicles, and just being respectful, and that goes a long way. Yeah, for sure. When I was- riding in one of your vans getting a ride up to Arctic Hive earlier this year. I was joking with Tim, who, you know, is one of your awesome guides, uh, 'cause you, you know, he was saying, like, "Little tour van entering the Dal..." You know, every time you enter- Right ... the highway, like you were saying, you say, "Little tour van entering the Dalton Highway northbound at y- Yukon River," or wh- or whatever. And, I was joking with him that you should have your own reality TV show that's called Ice Road Little Tour Vans 'cause it was winter. Anyway, I was like- We have worked with all of those over the years. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. W- from the aviation side, and then we have, you know, involved with the services at Coldfoot and Yukon River and, uh- Yep yeah, we know the ice road truckers. So we're, by differentiating a little, little tour van is we, they know we're not another truck. Yes. We're not one of our small coaches, so that is meaningful and that's kind of become our, our call-out. Yeah. So- I love it ... so pe- It's so great ... yeah, the truckers know about it and, and it is appreciated. We get that feedback a lot, which I'm always- I'm sure ... grateful for. Yeah, because then they're like, "Oh, there's gonna be someone a little smaller coming the other way or coming my way," or... Yeah. It's great. Yeah. S- The other, other moniker that's used is, you know, You have the 18-wheelers and then everybody else are 4-wheelers. Yeah. So a trucker will often say, "Hey, there's a 4-wheeler going like a bat out of hell. Watch out for him." That's never gonna be us, but- Yeah ... so we- Yeah ... the little tour van does, effective communication. Yes, for sure. So a couple quick questions, Matt, uh, for people driving their own vehicles, and then I wanna ask you a, a few things about your tours. So if you yourself were going to take a road trip to Prudhoe Bay and back to Fairbanks in your vehicle, how much time, how many days would you allow for that trip? Well, I've done, done it several times. Um- I imagine you have ... I think that it really depends on the person. So ideally, if somebody's going up there on a leisure basis and they've got a, adequate vehicle, doesn't necessarily need to be four-wheel drive, but having something with a little bit of higher wheel base is kinda nice. Yeah. Typically that's gonna come with a, with a 4 by, a little SUV or something like that. Yep. Would definitely have a spare tire, water, the flares, that kinda stuff that you would have. Now they have the LED cubes that you can put out. And for most people that are doing that, we advise four days. Yeah. So you would go from Fairbanks to Coldfoot, which is 260 miles, overnight there, and that gives you, you know, chance to settle in, go to the visitor center, get a bite to eat, fuel up- Yeah ... head out in the morning from, from Coldfoot to Prudhoe Bay or Deadhorse. Yeah. So Deadhorse is kinda the public area. Yep. Prudhoe Bay is the oil field. Yes. So there are services at Deadhorse- Um, where you could get up, overnight at one of the camps up at Deadhorse. We have a camp, Deadhorse Camp. Aurora Hotel is another one. There's several places a person could stay. Yeah. And then, before heading out on the third day to get a shuttle out to the Arctic Ocean. Now, this needs to be organized in advance because of security protocols on the oil field. So that's just, that's a service we provide. One can get online, put in their name, birth date, identification information like a passport number or a driver's license number, and book for a early morning shuttle out to the Arctic Ocean. Yep. Dunk your foot in the water, 'cause that is another iconic thing in that photo. Yes. People like being at the Arctic Ocean. Yes, they do. And, um, and then that would give someone time to then head back down to Coldfoot, another 240 miles. Yeah. Yep. Overnight there, and then head that last 260 back into Fairbanks. Yes. So with that said, then it can be abbreviated from there. You know, if, if one was gonna go- Right ... truckers do that turn in 12 to 14 hours. Yeah. They're probably going a little more purposefully than a, a leisure traveler. Yes. But a person could, could go up on one day, spend the night, get out to the ocean, and come back down the next day. And, and people do it, but it's a little more hardcore than what the- Yeah ... average traveler is gonna wanna do. Yeah, for sure. , I will confess to being a person who prefers to stand next to the Arctic Ocean rather than to have my body in it. Oh. But it's cool that people wanna do that, and I know many do. It's great. But I'm like, "Ooh, I don't know." Yeah. I've done it a lot in Utqiagvik as well as Deadhorse. Yeah. Jay,, my husband, who is sometimes the co-host of the podcast- Mm-hmm ... he, he did tours on the Dalton in the '90s, , for Princess when they were doing- Oh, right. Yeah those tours. Yeah. And he, so he's done the Arctic Ocean polar plunge, but he also was like, "Yeah, never again." That was a one, one time experience. Um- I'm a, a regular, uh, consumer of that, so. Yes, I bet you are. Cool. Okay. So I think that's actually a really important point. Listeners, if you are going to drive yourself all the way to Deadhorse, you need to know that you can't drive yourself to the Arctic Ocean. You, you know, like Matt was saying, you're gonna have to book a shuttle in advance in order to get to the Arctic Ocean because you're going onto the oil field operation. So and then on a tour- Yeah ... of course, that's included, but, like, that's a really important point. You can't camp next to the Arctic Ocean. You can do that in the Yukon,, in Tuktoyaktuk, but th- that's like a completely different place. So, um, yeah. I'm glad. I was gonna ask about that next, so I'm glad that you- Yeah, there is ... So someone does need to, to plan it because there is actually a security guard. Hilcorp is the- Yep ... entity that operates the oil field now- Yep and they would be stopping you, saying, "You know, you can't go here. You need to call these guys." To arrange it in advance. You can certainly camp on the Sagavanirktuk River, um- Yep ... across from Deadhorse Camp off the Dalton Highway. There's a quite, um, easy place to turn out, and if you're kind of self-contained, there's not any RV parks or anything like that. But, uh- Yeah ... it's quite, quite user-friendly for someone that's,, doing an intrepid, travel trek. Yes. And you see a lot of, , a lot of motorcycles in the summertime. They're doing that Pan-American Highway. Yes. And they're adventure bikes, and they're either camping or staying at the hotels and getting out to the ocean. Yeah. And it would be a real bummer to ride your motorcycle from South America to Deadhorse and then not be able to go to the Arctic Ocean 'cause you didn't arrange for a shuttle. That would suck. Yeah, yeah. So, so do that. Usually they'll catch it in, in at Coldfoot. We have, uh, you know, people along the way. It's, uh, it's basically, a community street. It happens to be 500 miles long. But if, folks catch wind that you're maybe heading up there, usually what people ask, " were you gonna go to the ocean? Did you make a reservation?" Yeah. So we get a lot of cold- calls from Coldfoot, um, at 5:00 or 6:00 in the evening saying, "Oh, we didn't know you were-" "Can you help me?" Yeah ... "going to do this." And a lot of times we can, can get that in inside the 24 hour- Oh, that's awesome. That's really good to know. Cool ... it's outside 24 hours typically, but we can slide them in or to try to keep them on their way for their, you know, trav- original travel plans. Yep. And then also just to clarify for listeners, and hopefully you have the milepost if you're driving the Dalton Highway, um, if you don't, get it. Um, but just to clarify where there are things like gas and any kind of food, that is just Yukon River Camp, Coldfoot, and Deadhorse, right? That, that is correct. Yeah. And that's one of the things- So you gotta plan ahead ... , it makes it to where you have to plan, but it's also one of the neat features of the route. Yeah. , Talking to a lot of these folks that have traveled the Pan-American Highway, you know, by many anecdotal accounts the, the stretch between Coldfoot and Deadhorse is one of the longest wilderness stretches in that whole route from Tierra del Fuego. 'Cause even in remote parts of Central and South America, there's usually a village, a little pueblo or something- Yeah within a much shorter distance than that where there is services or get a snack or, you know, something like that where that wilderness character of, of the road really shines through on that route. Yeah, for sure. Okay, so Matt, before we finish up, I'd love to just have you explain to folks how they can travel this part of Alaska with you. And earlier we talked about the, day trip tours that you do to the Arctic Circle and back on the road, and that's still something that you offer that is awesome. How long is that tour? And is there anything that we didn't talk about already that you think people need to know before deciding it's for them? And then we'll talk about some of the Prudhoe and flying options. Sure. Yeah, so the, um... I think the thing to, to think about early on is that, um, Arctic is, is gonna be not a lot of people get to do it, but if you're g- you're planning on an Arctic excursion, you need, need to plan the time. Yeah. So Fairbanks is, is the gateway to Alaska's Arctic. Yeah. So your, your options are gonna be greater from Fairbanks. Um, in adding a day and an additional night are generally gonna be the best bet because of the vagaries with weather, the time it takes, and that, that kind of thing. Yeah. And to your reference earlier, we, offer a variety of different ways for folks to experience Alaska's Arctic. Mm-hmm. You know, we started off with a original one-day ground tour, which we've talked a lot about on the Dalton Highway. Yeah. The advantage there, it's gonna be the least expensive. You're not incorporating flights- Yeah ... but it's gonna take a full day. Yeah. And we recognize that, and that's not for everybody. It's not particularly rigorous. We're not doing extended hiking or anything like that, but you're traveling for a long time over an extended period of time. Yes. And then so when we kind of in our company evolution over time, we did get into, you know, wanting to expand the markets, and how you do that is by shortening the day. How you shorten the day is by incorporating, , aircraft, flying. Yeah. So, so that's where, a person can, can experience that region from an aerial perspective with a flight- Yeah ... and then a ground tour combination. So we have excursions where you can fly up north of the Arctic Circle, ground tour all the way back, so you're experiencing the Dalton Highway, the Yukon River at the iconic Arctic Circle sign that people like to get photos at. And that's both northbound and southbound, so you can fly up, ground tour back, ground tour north, either spend time at Coldfoot,, for a short time, overnight, for multiple days or one day. Yep. Fly back. And then for a lot of guests that even, , have shorter timeframe, you can fly both directions. Yeah. Fly up to Coldfoot, visit the community of Wiseman, which you spent time at even outside- I have ... of Wiseman in the wintertime for- Yeah ... your yoga retreat And, um, otherwise do a walking tour in Co- in Wiseman, and then fly back. So that's the least time consumptive. A lot of folks, out of Denali will do that tour. Yep. If they're on kind of a cruise tour itinerary, which are, they're very popular- Yeah ... and that can fit in. And, and is the least time consumptive way to do that. Yeah, and as I know you know, Matt, but listeners, when I am working as a tour director and I'm in Fairbanks, I usually have several guests, who want to do one of these flights, and it, even though we have pretty packed days, they can still usually do it because, the, you pick them up usually, like, just before 6:00, I think, and then- Yeah They get back at, like, midnight, but they get to do it, and it fits into a pretty packed itinerary, which is really cool. Yeah. Which is... Yeah, and that's something that people, it's just gonna be human nature. You wanna do the, have... You're looking at the itinerary, and you wanna do as much as possible. It does wear people out a little bit. Yeah. So we do have- It does ... have departures at 7:00 AM, 1:00 PM, and 7:00 PM. Yes. So if somebody already has booked an itinerary that, say, has a riverboat cruise and a salmon bake in Fairbanks, they can still have that evening time slot- Yeah ... for, for free. So people are pretty mo- need to be pretty motivated, 'cause they- They do. time and expense, and you're getting out there- Yes ... but it's possible. And then a lot of times too, people that are on an itinerary like that may choose to, over an extra day- Yeah ... allocate a day to do something like that, just to spread it out a little bit. Yeah, which if you're beginning or ending your cruise tour in Fairbanks, that adding in an extra day is, a way more chill way to do it than the way that- Yeah my guests are often doing it, which is, seeing really cool things in Fairbanks all day, and then just getting back to the hotel in time to,, jump in the van with you, and then getting back at, midnight, and then getting up at 5:00 5:00 in the morning for the... Yeah But then sleeping all day in the coach. So I guess that's fine. It, it- But it's a lot. Yeah It works, both ways as long as w- main thing is that for people to know, where if folks are not really tracking that, okay, I've signed up for all these things, but boy, there's gonna be a physical toll on a long day- Yes. Yes ... that can be a little bit rough. But if people are... we'll tell folks, and, and we'll have even, like, Aurora visitors in the wintertime. They'll come up- Yeah ... out of California for 36 hours, and they know that they're gonna be up the whole time, and usually these are, college age on a spring break or some kind of a break weekend,, and will fly up out of, out of LA, be up for 48 hours in Fairbanks, and fly home and sleep the whole way. Yeah. Which is pretty fun if you're up for that. If you're up for that. It's a little frantic. Yeah. Not for everybody. The extra time and- Is what we find even anymore as we're getting older. Yeah. People like to overnight in Seattle before heading off to their next adventure. Yes, yes. Locals. So, yeah. So, the trip that you do that goes the, drive and fly trip that goes to Prudhoe Bay- Yeah you only do that one in summer, right? It's up to Col- Correct ... as far as Coldfoot you go in winter? Yeah, that's a... Yeah, it's a three-day, two-night excursion. Um- Cool ... and we do that from, uh, late May till beginning of September. Yep. And that really is, mainly c- a couple of reasons. One, uh, just the conditions north of the Brooks Range in the wintertime can be- Yeah even more challenging. Yep. They'll call it, when you get a blow, which is a- ... extreme winds- windstorm, that really reduces visibility to, can be zero. Yeah. Um- Not good ... so the, so the visual and geographical interest is, , once you're on the Arctic Coastal Plain, it's kinda hard to tell the difference between that and the Arctic Ocean. It's all white and flat. Yeah. Um, and then the other practical part of it is in, at the middle of September or so, Pilbara, you know, ceases access to the Arctic Ocean. That makes sense. So, so the extreme conditions and,, access to the Arctic Ocean, so we don't go that far north. We'll go as far- Yep ... far north as, say, Atigun Pass. Yeah. We do that as a, for our guests that are spending a couple days at Coldfoot looking for aurora. Yeah. That's a real nice way to, uh, get up to the continental divide and experience that real dramatic mountain scenery of the Brooks Range. Yep. Cool. Okay, and so you said that's a three-day, two-night trip. Three-day, two-night So it's Coldfoot, Deadhorse, or the other way around, depending on which way you went. Correct. Yeah, it's a ground tour and a charter flight, and that really is from a guided perspective, like Tim, who you've mentioned a couple times. Yeah. That's, that's our guides favorite tour to do. Oh, I'm sure. Uh, smaller groups. It's usually 10 or less. You get to spend three days with folks in a real meaningful way, so convey a lot of information, and, the flow is just a little bit more relaxed than trying- Yep ... to do everything in a day excursion. So that's, for people that have the time, they really enjoy that excursion, and certainly our guides. We have folks that have been with us for 20 years that'll do six of those per summer, and that's, that makes their whole summer. Yeah. I, I will just say my comment on that is that the drive and fly, whether that's to the Arctic Circle and Coldfoot or to the Arctic Ocean, you're really kind of getting it all that way. You're, like, getting the road experience and the on-the-ground experience, but you're also getting that flying above Alaska experience that just gives you a totally different perspective on- where you are and how vast it is and- Get the aerial perspective ... how few roads. Yeah, and the vastness of it. And then thematically it ties in too, so any of those flight legs we do as a scenic transportation, but we're providing mail with freight and commuter services to all of the villages in the region. Yep. So, you know, you're tying into something that very much is, important part of the lifestyle of the region as well- Yeah ... which is kinda cool. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay, Matt, I know that we are almost out of time, but I can't let you go without asking you as a lifelong Fairbanksan, what's your favorite restaurant in Fairbanks? We're gonna go with a little bit of a deep cut here. Okay. Um, there's a place called the Blue Roof Bistro. Yes. Okay, tell- Have you had a chance to go there yet, Jennie? I have, but I don't think it's come up on the podcast. So tell everybody about it. Yeah. So Blue Roof Bistro is a smaller restaurant over on, , the east side of town. Mm-hmm. And Karla is the proprietor. She, her in-laws used to, we used to work with them up on the Elliott Highway at Mile 49 at Joy Alaska. Oh, wow. So her, her- I didn't know it was connected to Joy ... her, her- That's cool ... former husband was, uh, Jordan Carlson, who was part of the Carlson families. Okay. And Karla, they met up at Coldfoot. Uh-huh. So she used to work up there, but they have a, a very unique, uh, menu that's kind of a more modern take. It reminds me of Middle Way Cafe in Anchorage. Yeah. So it's- Oh, that's also a great spot ... kinda using fresh ingredients- Yep ... unique combinations. And, they're not gonna be able to host a whole coach load of folks in there. No. And they have, you know, regular restaurant hours, so if it's something super late or super early, but they're fitting in with the lifestyle at- Yeah so Karla at the, and the Blue Roof Bistro is one that wouldn't come up a lot, but that's- Yeah ... Karla's favorite, uh, folks. I love that you mentioned that, Matt. I love that. Okay. We have time for one last question, which is, what's your top tip for Alaska travelers coming for the first time? I would say for Alaska travelers coming for the first time, summer or winter, to... you're gonna do your research online, and people are getting it on ChatGPT and get the list of the top things to do. But make a point to understand that whether you're doing research online or going through a- A tour operator like a Viator or things like that to dig a little bit deeper- Mm and call the actual service provider. I think that people will find, like, when one of the things that we do is we don't have a lot of online booking with our things, um, because we need to have these conversations- Yeah ... 'cause what we do is d- different enough. But what we find is that we are answering the phone. We do talk to people and have a very good perspective of what people wanna do, and, , I think that folks will find that really valuable. Yes. Find out who the service provider is. Yeah. Have a conversation. You're gonna pick up things like where you need to plug in your car, or how long it is between the hotel and the airport- Yeah that are just little things that are hard to pick up online. There's great- Yeah ... information, and I think it's getting better and better all the time. But, be aware that,, there is often a layer or a booking mechanism that's between you and the individual or the little company that's actually gonna be providing the service. Try to get ahold of them. Yeah. To reach out to get good information, and you're oftentimes gonna get, find out information that you wouldn't even know what to ask. Yeah. So our job is to answer questions that people don't even know they're supposed to ask. Yep. That's great advice. Well, Matt, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing all about the Arctic with everybody. Well, thank you for having me, and you make it very easy and very fun