Jon Peterson, Peterson's Guide Service of ME

We chat with Jon Peterson, a fly guide based in Maine who targets a variety of species in both fresh and saltwater. In this episode, we focus in on the fantastic smallmouth fishing that northeastern Maine has to offer, along with the wilderness experience that is a welcome break from some of our more urban water bodies. 

Kick back and listen to what we need to know before we go.

Transcript

Austin: 

 You are listening to Guide Talk from Elevate Fly Casting. I'm your host, Austin Orr. Together we'll explore the world through the lens of fly fishing. We'll interview guides and top anglers about their local waters, the fish that live there, and the skills it takes to catch them.

Today we're chatting with John Peterson, a four season registered fly fishing guide based in Maine. John guides for a variety of species, including northern pike, landlocked atlantic salmon, and even some saltwater species.

If you're like me, you don't associate Maine with amazing smallmouth bass fishing, but that's exactly what we focused on during our discussion. There are a few great nuggets in there for wherever you may be chasing bronze backs this year. So sit back and get ready to learn what we need to know before we go.

He's been kind enough to join us today to talk a little bit about the fishing up in that part of the world, and we're really excited to have the opportunity to talk to today. John, appreciate you coming by. Let's discuss a little bit about how you got into guiding and what keeps you in the game. 

Jon:

Oh, a pleasure to be here, Austin.

 I've been a registered Maine guide since 2014, and I think what really got me into the thought of being a guide was my family had a lodge on Sbec Lake way before my time. So the, everybody always talked about it, I had uncles that were guides and it was just something that I grew up in the woods just south of Moosehead Lake and Kata and, the Kata region, some of the best brook trout and salmon waters in the Northeast.

So it was always kind of a part of who I was. When I got outta college, I had a history degree, which I'm not really using at this point, which is fine. I really thought about how do I take teaching and the history of the environment and the natural world around me to make that a career.

And it took me a little bit to get there, life got in the way and finally, finally started my guide service in 2014. And built my business up from there. And finally in the spring of 2021, I made the full-time jump. So, full-time starting 2021. In May, number one. 

Congratulations! What keeps you in it though? 

Jon:

Well, I mean, honestly as a full-time guide, you don't fish much on your own. So there has to be some type of fulfillment, and for me it is really just helping people get on fish. I get really excited about fishing with people or showing people how to fish and having them put it together.

So for me, I like to see those big fish come over the, the, into the net over the board. I mean, it's just really fulfilling for me. And it's kind of weird. I have some friends who are guides who really can't make that transition to being a full-time guy because they like fishing too much.

So, I mean, I think we all have friends like that. And that just is a very satisfying part of it. And also, I look around and I'm like, this is my office. I'm outside. I'm in my boat. What, what could be better at this point? So that's what really kind of keeps me going. And, it's the fluctuations of seasons too.

And I've, I've told everybody this, that I love the four Seasons up in Maine. I love how species change. I love how the environment changes. we get really cold. I guide ice fishing too. But again, it's just that things are always changing. So you have a chance to kind of like, I think everybody says variety is a spice of life, and I kind of think that's cheesy, but we get to do something different every season, which is nice cuz after a while you might get burned out of one species.

So it sounds like there's a tremendous variety. And when we were talking before we hit record here, we talked a little bit about that as well. What is special about just the next three months? Let's try to narrow it down a little bit. ? I know y'all are just coming out of the cold, so it's probably just starting right now, just starting to warm up a little bit.

Jon:

Yeah. I mean, half the state is still locked in ice. But what you start to see in the next month is you start to see this rainbow smell run which is a little bait fish, which is the primary forage for the landlocked salmon that's indigenous to the northeast here and specifically to Maine.

So a lot of the big game fish are gonna be chasing those, those bait fish up into the rivers and streams and brooks. And that's like traditionally, that's what people are gonna be looking for late April, early May, and a lot of those salmon are gonna stay in the rivers. So that's kinda like the next stage of our fishing right now is gonna kind of move into that in the north, north side of the state.

But right now we're on pre-spawn northern pike. So that's the big thing right now. They're very challenging and very controversial in our state because they're an invasive species. But when you catch a 45 inch pike on a fly rod, I think we're gonna have a different conversation at that point. 

I mean, it is kind of, the most fun you can have with your pants on, with a fly rod. So again, that's kind of what we're doing now. And there are some, we do see a lot of stocking in the southern part of the state, so we get some rainbow trout cuz they're a spring spawner in our state.

I'm pretty sure they are everywhere. We do have a lot of bodies of water that have rainbow trout around here, so that's our transition. But as we get into May we start to see the smallmouth bass in the pre-spawn, ah, and then the spawn. And, and that's really kind of the bread and butter of the bulk of my season is gonna be smallmouth bass.

Is that flowing water or lakes or what do you mostly target?

Jon:

Both. And that's, that's gonna be when I go to the lodge, we'll talk about that one. That's gonna be in the down east section of Maine which is known for its small mouth bass and landlock sand. Oh, okay. So that is, you get both rivers and you get lakes and ponds that have a phenomenal, phenomenal population of smallmouth bass.

And I mean, you can't, you can't beat them pound for pound. But then again, we don't really talk about our bass in regards to pounds. As people do in other states, we go by inches. So sure. If somebody says, Hey, I got a 20, we're not talking 20 pounder, we're talking a 20 incher. So be proud of that person either way.

Today was in the sixties. Tomorrow's gonna be sixties as well, so when we're shedding ice pretty quickly and some of our bigger bodies, water, like Sebago doesn't, sometimes it doesn't even freeze. Like we had a really soft freeze this year, and I mean that helps out keep the ice fishing pressure down.

But most of the bodies of water freeze. So if there's ice fishing pressure on there, that does hurt the overall fish population because it's a very effective way to fish. 

That's interesting. That's something that down here in the warmer states, we don't really have to consider. So that's an interesting insight.

Speaking of traditions and speaking of things that you've learned, what's something that you've learned? I mean, you talked about a wide variety of watersheds, a wide variety of types of water. But if you had to pick just one or two things that really surprised you about that area of the world, as you've come up as an angler and now as a guide, what are a couple surprising tidbits that you've come across?

Jon:

Well, I mean, I've done some angling for Atlantic salmon in New Brunswick, and I think the temperature tolerances for landlocked salmon and Atlantic salmon are something that I think people gotta misinterpret from a trout to a salmonid. So I think with the salmon, They can tolerate higher temperatures.

So I think a lot of people don't realize that because they kind of lump trout and salmon in the same group. So you can start to see some salmon in waters that are up in the upper sixties, whereas, if you did that with a brook trout, you'd probably kill it. So you see that because some of the watersheds up here are dam controlled.

So if they lower the water, the water flows and sometimes the water temperatures come up a little too quickly and the fish are okay. But we as ANRs need to be conscious of that. So I think there's a, people try to not let people fish for 'em as much. But I think that's something that, you kind of start to scratch your head because like they're still in the water and they're on the river and you just have to shift your kind of thought process.

I think that kind of the hoot owl restrictions, I think they're talking about potentially doing that in Maine now. So, Which I, I would be okay with. It's not, it's not necessarily a good thing for guiding, but, I'd rather just, I'd, I'd rather just go for bass at that point. 

For those anglers who may be listening that don't, that aren't aware of the hoot owl restrictions, give 'em a real quick rundown of what that looks like.

Jon:

Well, when I first heard about it, I was confused too. I was like, these, these food owls really affecting the fisheries, and how is it that an owl was doing this? The basic idea is that you would be able to fish in the mornings when the water temperatures are cool, when the owls would really be out or later in, towards the evening.

But you wouldn't be fishing in the heat of the day. That's really what it means. It's just you, you just need to be conscious of it. Just be off the water early and then maybe fish into the evening. 

With the point of course being that as the water temperature rises, there's less oxygen available for the trout and they start to stress more.

They don't like the heat. And so if you hook a large fish, you have a long fight with that fish on a light tipt, you get it to hand, all of a sudden that fish is in a lot of trouble. So, absolutely. It's our duty to make sure that that fish has a good opportunity to survive.

So that's, that's where the hoot owl restrictions come in. As a guide you don't wanna be killing your source of revenue. 

 So, We've talked a little bit about the upcoming three months, and it sounds like the fishing can be really good.

Yes. 

Is there a time where you would recommend we're, we're gonna kind of focus on smallmouth because it sounds like that's really where your wheelhouse is. If an angler wanted to come up and fish for smallmouth, when would you recommend that they come up there? You said it's kind of just starting, so maybe June, 

Jon:

May 10th. The reason why I'm saying that is I'm leaving for the lodge May 9th. So my first guide day up there is May 11th. I have the same clients that I did last year and we did a split two days, like we did one day on the lake for late smallmouth, and then the other day we went for salmon. You could come up on May 1st over there. I'm just going by my personal preference, I mean, you can do it late April, it's just. Typically at that point, I mean, late April, this water is still pretty cold. They haven't really peaked into that feed bag type of mentality, they don't have those big bellies yet. And then you can go right to the end of October, into November if you really wanted to, but at that point you're chasing whitetail. You, you would do something else. But, some of the best top water is in October when they're in hypoplasia.

So if you had to pick a set number of days, I recognize this is a moving target, but if I said to my buddy, Hey, let's go up and fish with Jon, he says, we only need two or three days. He says, we can get it done in one day 

Jon:

So you can get it done in one day. But for the best type of fishing opportunities and where I guide, you're best to give yourself at least two to three days, if not four. I would say three is best. Two is okay. If you're doing it in one, you're not gonna relax. I would say give yourself at least two days, cuz that's gonna give you at least two nights at the lodge or at least wherever you want to stay.

And it's an experience. I mean, because you don't realize it until you look at the map, how many bodies of water, because it's all like, Downeast Lakes Land Trust land and there's bodies of water everywhere and it's protected. I mean, there's very few camps there. I mean, this isn't, like, if you're going into a suburban area where you gotta worry about Karens on your dock.

So it's a true wilderness experience out here. So that's kind of like, why I would say give yourself two to three minimum. 

Well, you sold me. I'll tell you that. I do love a quiet morning with no Karens. 

 What does a typical day of guiding out there look like? And we'll stick with the smallmouth for this one. 

Jon:

So, if we're in the Grand Lake Stream area, it's actually a traditional guiding community. It has the highest percentage of guides in the state, and they've cultivated this way of guiding.

So it's very set; we start at 8 and we end at 4, 4:30. Because most of it, like you can't tent camp out there, you have to stay at a lodge or a fishing camp. So it's a very guide-driven, lodge-driven community. 

And usually breakfast is at 7am, we pick you up or you're right at the lodge. I'm already at the lodge so we can get it going a little earlier if you're a fast eater. I'm usually ready well before seven o'clock anyway. I don't know if you wanna get into it now, but we also do traditional shore lunches.

We cook on an open fire. 

Oh, absolutely. Please tell us more about that. 

Jon:

So, there is a special regulation for us in the Grand Lake Stream area where we actually harvest a few fish for a fish fry.

We do it as an appetizer, but we cook on an open fire. And basically, we start with a fish fry appetizer, and then we do either skillet potatoes or we do like a boiled potato, and then we do meat on like indirect heat. And then we do what we call guide coffee. So it's not cowboy coffee.

You're gonna get run out of town if you call it cowboy coffee, because we actually use an egg in our coffee grinds. So you basically take your pot of coffee and you boil it, so it's just completely boiling. And then you take about three quarters to a cup of coffee, doesn't matter what type. And you take one whole egg and you crush the whole thing and you make it into like a coffee brownie mixture, and then you take the water off and you pour it in.

And then you put that coffee pot onto the side so that only one side of the coffee pot boils. And then it rolls and it percolates and it creates a raft, a coffee ground raft, and it's the smoothest coffee you'll ever have. So, and it's just an experience. It takes about an hour, an hour and a half and you can, on hot days, you can make it go longer if you want.

But again, it's just like the whole process and you can be as elaborate as you want. 

But also I think by transitioning to most of my guiding out there, it's really kind of challenged me as a guide. And made me really use my tools every day. I'm living there and I'm living that every single day.

So it's, that's also what kind of keeps me going too. 

You get to fully lean into it and fully live it. Yeah, I hear that. I hear that. So let's talk about the ideal client. So I know that that's also a moving target, but let's, let's just, let's just try it. Oh, he's got a list, folks.

Jon:

 When you asked me that question, I was thinking about who would be the best; athletic, tall, I don't know. And then I came up with these three really quick, three skills that they need.

Patience, willingness to learn, and listening skills. Those are the three. I don't care about anything else. Like if you bring those three things to the table, I can teach you how to fly fish. I mean, look at what they're doing with adaptive fly fishing. So if you have all your limbs, you're already ahead of the game.

Some people are doing it a lot better than you. So think about your limitations and it's all in your head. So we're talking about the person who's never picked up a fly rod to the 50 year veteran of fly fishing. If as long as they show up with those three things, then you're practically guaranteed to be successful out there, whether you're catching fish or not.

And maybe I'll be horrendously sexist, but if you're a woman, you'll do better than the guys. I've seen it with husbands and wives and it's like, I know what's gonna happen, and I kind of just chuckled to myself because he tries to overpower it and work that rod too hard.

And she's just like asking me what to do and I'm like, this is what you do. And she's like, okay!

You listening boys? You listening? All right. So that is an excellent encapsulation of what we will hear episode after episode, I am sure.

Because really when it comes down to it, that's what a fishing guide needs. Whether you're a fly guide or a bait guide or everybody in between, just show up and be ready to have a good day. And that's gonna solve a lot of the problems before they start. So, speaking of which, what are three casting or fishing skills that a client should have before they show up?

We talked about a kind of mental game just now, but what are some physical skills that we can work on before we show up to fish with you? 

Jon:

So my biggest thing is just understanding like the three part cast, like understanding line mechanics with the fly rod, like how does it work? I've seen people not start with a rod tip down by the water and I'm like, that's not gonna work. I mean, just understanding how a fly rod and the fly line works. I always encourage people, because we have LL Bean right down the road. We have the flagship store not far from us, and they offer fly casting lessons all the time. So I always tell people, I'm like, if you happen to be up a day or two early, please take a casting lesson, please. 

 And line management. I don't know how many times I've had clients lose big fish because they couldn't set the hook because they had so much line out and they didn't know where to start. And I'm like, there's one spot that you can start that will solve all your problems.

And I know you and I talked about the roll cast and the double haul, but that's like, after you get these basic ones down you can, but the line management? Even experienced fly casters, I see people screwing that up all the time.

I think even fly casters, who've done it for years. Sometimes we screw up. But, when you see it consistently and that's when you start to get a little frustrated because it's taking away from the overall experience of your trip. 

Absolutely. Yeah. And frequent listeners are gonna hear line management like a, like a bible verse, man. Like it's just gonna be something that gets repeated and repeated. Because even me, I teach a lot of saltwater anglers, right? And my mantra to them is, we are line management specialists first.

You're not a caster first. You line manage first because you cannot, no matter if you're the best caster in the world, you can't cast that big knot that's whipping up off the deck. 

Once the fish takes or even kind of that in between time the cast has been made, you're trying to get tight, that's when the fish is going to eat. Especially if we're talking about smallies and you have to be able to gather the line, get it in your trigger finger and be ready to go.

Jon:

So, I've seen people that it's almost automatic that line's shooting out and they're, they're getting down and they, they're already set and they're already ready mentally to get to get all that slack out. They're coming tight to that fly because they know it can happen right then and there.

And the point that you're trying to make is that those people are good at that because they have practiced it, not because they were born good at it, but because they have done lots of reps and they have been very focused on getting good at that.

And you can do that too. So, do it.

Speaking of which, what are mistakes that you consistently see clients making that blow shots that they didn't have to do?

Jon:

So we talked about directional hook sets and we do a lot of indicator fishing nymph fishing on Grand Lake Stream.

And I always remind people the fish are always facing upstream. Your flies are floating into their mouth and if you pull upstream when that indicator goes down, you're pulling it right outta their mouth.

And I specifically had one gentleman last year that did it like five times in a row. And the fifth time I think he actually, he had looked up. And he was this big, tall guy and he almost fell over backwards. And I'm like catching this six five, dude. I'm like, only five, eight in, in a river trying to catch him.

And I looked at him, I said, Bruce, I've told you to set, to the bank, set towards me, like set down river sweep, sweep sideways. And it's just kinda like a light bulb moment because the run we were fishing had a lot of fish in it.

So thankfully it wasn't like a one and done, we gotta move. But that's one of the biggest things - directional hook sets. Then also, just not setting the hook when I tell you to.

So trust me, trust your guide. Like, it's not like this is my first day out. I might joke, I might joke with 'em, right? I'm walking down like, this is my first day. I hope I do okay. And they're like, really? I'm like, no, not my first time. 

We do a lot of sight fishing on the stream cause it's crystal clear. We call it gin clear water, so you can see the fish eating the fly. So sometimes I see the fish eat it and they're so fixated on that indicator. Sometimes for the anchor fly, I use something really bright, like a hot head frenchie or something that they can see.

But then it's hard putting so many pieces together, with running water, you've got line flying around, you’ve got an indicator, you’ve got two flies, you've got your guide sitting next to you expecting you to catch a fish.

So trust me, I'm your second set of eyes. I'm looking at what's going on there. 

I'm here to make your experience good. So if I tell you to do something, it's not that I like to hear myself talk. I'm a pretty soft spoken guy. But if I say it more than once, it's probably important. 

If it's, if it's repeated, then it's important. Yeah. Yeah. So what, what species are we fishing for with indicators?

Jon:

Landlocked salmon, which is the same genetic species as the Atlantic salmon. There's two different thoughts; that they either just decided to stay in the rivers instead of going back to the ocean, or they got locked in by dams. There's two different thoughts on there. I don't really care which one happened, I just think they're fun. 

They jump just like the Atlantics, so they don't get as big, obviously, but for indicator fishing, we go for the salmon mostly. 

Circling back to smallies, what are some of the situations that people can mess up when fishing for smallmouth with you? 

Jon:

Yeah, there are. If we're watching a fly sink, and you're like, all right, almost there. Almost there, almost there. And then they panic and they pick it up and cast again and you're like, what are you doing?! This is the other thing that kills me with smallmouth fishing, right?

People not being happy with the cast that they just did and picking up in false casting five or six more times and then landing a foot or two away from the original spot. 

Having the experience to know when to fish the cast, even if you hate it, that comes with time. 

Jon:

But I had this young angler last year, one of the few times I was down back home.

It was in the middle of the summer and he was like 12 years old. The most instinctual fly fisherman I've ever had. He fished every blown cast out, but he had this phenomenal smooth cast. I think he said his uncle taught him or something, but every time he'd have a bad cast, he would just strip in the line, come tight and fish it out.

So he didn't spook any fish. I was just like, this kid could teach everybody how it would be a more effective fly caster. It was amazing. 

That's a solid tip. That's a solid tip. So moving on, let's talk about gear. So first smallmouth. What's your typical load out look like?

What rods, reels, all that. You don't have to give us brands, but what are you usually throwing? 

Jon:

Six and 7 weights. 7 weights mostly for topwater smallmouth fishing. I'm not a huge fan of really expensive reels because we don't have any fish that are gonna totally blow you up. I've always told people reels are just this fancy line holder. I mean, not gonna knock it. Some of the reels out there are amazing, so I'm not gonna badmouth anybody. I like a large arbor because it keeps the line memory down, and your pickup is a lot faster too.

And if I'm gonna do any sinking lines, I'll do it on the 7s. The 8wts are more for my saltwater and for pike. I typically use 4s and 5s for salmon.

So with the smallies throwing a lot of top waters, mostly weight forward floating line, then?

Jon:

I will say I've actually been happy with the Orvis warm water. I'm pretty sure they're made by Scientific Anglers, so it's a really quality line. It turns over poppers really well, so I've been very happy with that. 

So tell us a little bit about the distances that we need to work with here. 

Jon:

I mean, you should be able to cast 40, 50 Yeah. Feet. Yeah. I mean, if you could do that. I can, I can, I can maneuver my boat pretty close. I have a fairly stable platform boat, so yeah, I think 50. Yeah, I mean, I'd be asking a lot if, if I told you to bomb a 70, 80 foot cast that's more for saltwater. 

So it's within what we should be able to do without even a double haul, double hauls are nice, but if you can throw a good loop, like you were talking about earlier, you construct a good cast, you throw a good loop, you should be able to get that 40 to 50 foot range consistently.

Jon:

And I always tell people sometimes when you're in a boat, you're trying to cast toward shore and people on the shore are trying to cast towards the boat. So, the fish are in between. 

Leaders and tippet. What are we running? 

Jon:

Very simple. Very simple. I'll start with the bottom. For salmon, for indicator fishing keep it incredibly stupid simple. When I started fly fishing in the nineties, everyone was saying one and a half times the depth of the water increasing with speed and blah, blah, blah. Nope, that’s never worked for me. I've simplified it for my clients. So for indicator fishing, I basically start from the welded loop and it's going straight down. So maybe 4, 5, 6 feet. Honestly, I can go a little bit longer. You don't have to. I've really constructed it so that it's just a pivot point. Because once you're chucking a tandem nymph rig, a lot can go wrong.

And especially if you have that indicator in the middle of your leader. And again, I always tell people, please minimize false casting. Any false casting at all with an indicator rig, that drives me mental. A lot of times it's just an overhand flip over. It's not pretty. Some people don't like it. So we were still only eight, nine feet, going up to like a 5x tippet. That's it. 

When we're going for bass top water, we're basic. Sometimes if I'm in a hurry I'll go straight 12 pound test, Six feet, the fish don't care. I think we get a little gear crazy and you can just get away with doing a lot less. So I've just kinda like worked over the past 20 years just simplifying it, making it easier on myself. Especially with salmon, I need to do things when I can't feel my fingertips.

So double surgeon’s knots, Albrights, non-slip loops. Just simple stuff. 

Yep, that makes sense. That makes sense. What gear do you provide versus what gear does the client absolutely need to bring?

Jon:

I provide everything except for your clothing. I always ask you to bring really good polarized sunglasses. I really want you to bring that. And if you want to bring your own gear, that's fine.

I'll inspect it before we go on water, because sometimes it's not appropriate. I'm like, I know that's your grandfather's, uncle’s, sister’s, brother’s, cousin's rod that is passed down by Eisenhower or something: it's not gonna work. So I think that's why I always just make sure I have the gear that I have, cuz it works. And it's geared specifically for what we're going for that day. 

So, dress warm or dress for the weather. Sun protection, the usual stuff, but especially bring a good pair of sunglasses so you can see what's going on out there.

Jon:

For instance tomorrow we're sightfishing for big pike. My guy tomorrow, he's a very experienced fly angler. I've had him before. We chatted today and he just came back from bonefishing, so he's like, my eyes are ready. I said, that's all I really care about.

So it’s more approachable if as a guide you're telling people that you have everything except for wading gear, especially down here where I don't have the support of a lodge. 

But if you're at the lodge, we provide waders. 

So it's just some communication beforehand. Make sure there's no surprises. And like you'll hear a million more times during these podcasts. Talk to your guide beforehand. Make sure that y'all are on the same page.

Jon:

Again, managing expectations is very important. When it comes down to people's expectations, sometimes they see our Instagram pages, they see our Facebook pages. I try to be careful with that just so that I don't set the expectation that you're gonna go out and slam a big fish every time.

Is there anything that you would really rather a client did not bring with them? 

Jon:

Guns and alcohol. I don't mind alcohol, and I don't mind guns. I mean, we're an open carry state. We're a concealed state. You don't need a permit for either. But in a boat, I don't want a gun in a boat. Accidental discharges kind of make a boat not float. 

My boat's my livelihood, so I'd just rather you not bring those things. I used to have a hard line on alcohol but I don’t anymore. I always tell people, if you must, bring a six pack. And if you really insist on bringing that 30 pack, we're just gonna sit on shore and just have a good time. We're not gonna fish cause somebody's gonna get hurt. 

So let's talk briefly about the flies that we're using. You've talked a lot about top waters and I get that because that's really all I want to throw too. Give us a little bit of a rundown on patterns for the smallies. 

A black wooly bugger, olive wooly bugger, chartreuse clouser. I mean, we have people coming in and bringing really cool stuff, trying it out. The Shimmer minnow works and that's a good fly for us. But you don't have to get fussy or crazy. 

Simplicity is the king when it comes to our smallies. We'd have a huge population of crayfish. I tie Whitlock's Nearnuff cray. I really love that fly.

But if you ended up just bringing a burnt orange wooly bugger. But as a guide, you tie for efficiency. Clouser, crayfish patterns, small minnow patterns, buggers.

What sizes are we talking about? And then tell us a little bit about the top waters you like. 

Jon:

So for the sizes; 2s, 4s, 6s for your clousers and streamers. And for top water, I love Boogle Bugs in yellow and powder blue, also in 2s and 4s.

I had a yellow Boogle Bug on that went probably a hundred bass before the hackles started coming off. Boogle Bugs are just a killer pattern. 

There you go folks. If you had that assortment of flies with you and you went on basically any trip, in any freshwater situation in the world, you'd be alright.

You would be prepared to catch some fish. If you buy a bunch of flies for this trip, you're ready for basically any trip. Alright, so we are in your boat, it is in the morning, tell us how it goes down. 

Jon:

In some of our lakes we have curly pondweed mats. If you find some of those, you can work the edges of those. I don't work the banks as much as I used to. I find structure in the middle of the lake. We have a lot of rock structures that come up out of deep water. 

Like, you really can't run some of these lakes full bore because there's no maps of these lakes and they're not buoyed either. So you have to know where you're going. But there's rock piles everywhere. A lot of those fish are gonna move up and feed until that sun gets too high. Then they're gonna start going down a little deeper. 

 So you're easing the boat along, you say to the client, yeah, gimme a good long cast over there at two o'clock or whatever. And you're landed out over a rock pile, you get tight, bloop, bloop, and explosion?

Jon:

Sometimes. Now, I always tell people, some of the bigger fish will take you by surprise. They'll sip. Let's say you're talking to me and all of a sudden you look back and your popper's gone. I'll tell them to set it immediately, because a lot of times it's just like that, and just all of a sudden that fly disappears. 

That will happen with some of these bigger fish. So I always tell my clients, “You might not think that's a big fish, but I need you to play it.”

Because then that fish starts to come towards the boat and you need to strip fast; I don't want you putting a bass on the reel, that drives me insane. 

Because it's like a bare knuckle fight in my opinion. He's just coming towards you and if you don't keep tension, that fish is gonna pop off, and that happens, because people don't believe you. 

Sometimes the splasher rises are a smaller, more aggressive fish that snuck in front of a bigger fish and they just need to get there first.

I mean, it's all about the confident take. If you got a confident fish they're just like, I'm gonna take that. 

Yeah. Yep. That's exactly what I look forward to. Once, once you've seen or felt or witnessed the confident eat, you're like, oh, that was a big fish. I need to pay attention right now. So that's another great little tidbit that'll be useful anywhere you go because there's even some saltwater fish that'll act exactly like that.

These fish are important, so what do you do to make sure that they swim away and we get to catch 'em another day? 

Jon:

If you look at anyone's social media or Instagram, we have to take pictures of fish. It's a reality; we're our own marketing team. If we're in the boat and we just hooked a nice smallie, we land the fish in a net that stays in the water and basically I'm holding it with one hand, high fives, kiss ladies, slap babies, all that other, that's stuff. I always tell them, pull some line out for me just so you don't break your rod - I’ve gotten hooks in my thumb before - and what we do is we unhook the fish and we leave the fish in the net.

If we want a picture, I get the camera out. If people need an example, I'll show 'em a picture of a previous client's fish to give them an example of how to properly hold a fish.

With bass, it's either completely upright - if it's not too heavy - or then it's horizontal. 

I have the camera ready and I bring the net over to 'em and we do it quick. And what I always like to do is I like to hold the net underneath the fish. You don't see it in the pictures, but the net's underneath the fish.

Cuz I don't want that fish hitting the deck because that fish would concuss and then it's ultra important for salmon because of the slime coat, and of course we're in the water, so that's the same process. Basically the fish is in the net. Fish tend to calm down when they're in the net.

It's weird. They seem to just stop. Because I, and they're not getting pulled anymore, unless they get hooked in the net and they start barrel rolling. That's a nightmare. But for the most part, we do the same process. It's quick; snap, snap, fish back down. 

If we're in the water for salmon, I can judge pretty quick if somebody can hold a fish correctly. Don't lip a salmon or brook trout; cradle it. I always tell people, if I can tell that they're not comfortable, we'll do a release shot.

I'll have 'em hold the net, hold the fish upstream. Then just slowly raise it up so its head is facing into the current, breathing again. I just start taking a bunch of pictures, and if they mess up, the fish goes on its way.

Well that strategy that you're talking about - holding the fish in the net and then getting that release shot, that sounds like a really good way to take care of a lot of problems all at once. So that's another good tip. 

And you get to show off how clean and beautiful your water is. So that's just another perk. If an angler makes a trip to that area with a non-fishing partner like a lot of us do, is there much for that partner to do there in the Grand Lake Stream area?

Jon:

If they wanna do things like canoeing, kayaking, hiking, sure. The closest place to shop is like 45 minutes away. So it depends on the time of season and on where you're gonna go. But if you're coming to Grand Lake Stream it's what we call a Sportsman's Paradise. So it is harder to bring non-angling folks there unless they like to sit by the fire and read a nice book.

That sounds good to me. But it does sound like if they're not an angler, but they do like the outdoors then there's still some good opportunities there. Plenty of hiking it sounds like. I'm sure that the leaves in the fall have got to be just killer.

October's good. And then we also have upland game hunting in October. I don't guide for it, but I have friends that do. And the lodge guides for it too, so there's nothing better than chasing upland game, in the Fall foliage, working over dogs. 

I definitely know some husband-wife pairs where the wife is the hardcore angler and then the husband is the hunter. So that sounds like a good fit for some of those folks. 

We don't have Sunday hunting in Maine, so that's where October is perfect. If you come for a long weekend, at least one of those days - that Sunday - you gotta be fishing. 

Things are getting more crowded out there on the water these days. I'm sure even in your neck of the woods. What are some of the things that you do to make sure that everyone stays cool and collected out there on the water? 

Jon:

In Grand Lake Stream, our stream's only like three and a half miles long and not all of it's fishable. Like the middle section is a lot of pocket water that doesn't hold a lot of fish.

So what I try to do, especially when I have clients with me, is observe what people are doing when I get to the stretch that I want to fish. So for example, there's one gentleman who lives on the stream and he's known for swinging soft hackle wet flies. And he always has a cigar. So this October we ended up at a section of the river that I wanted to fish, and he was at the head of the pool.

Now, he always swings two soft hackles. So I stopped and I watched him and I watched him and he saw me and he kind of gave me this look, and it was an, “I'm not moving, so you can come in.”

And I'm like, okay. I'm not gonna rush in because it would be improper of me knowing if you're gonna move down. I'm not gonna low hole you, because in this situation, people can get a little heated cuz that stream is a little crowded and there are people that just bang right in. 

You just talk to people, like if it's crowded and you can't get into a spot, you want to just chat with people. I've gotten a rotation into a stretch because the person was like, “Hey, come on in, I'm gonna take a break.”

Just have a conversation. 

So that's on foot, that's being right there, shoulder to shoulder, but as far as boating being out on some of your lakes, are there fewer people?

Jon:

It's fewer people. But with the way that guides work most of 'em are in Grand Lake canoes. They're 20 foot wooden canoes with square sterns; usually they put like a 9.9 or 15 horsepower motor on there.

But when they get to a shoreline that they wanna work, they'll shut the motor off and they'll paddle or they'll use the wind to their advantage. So you have to look a little bit further ahead. So if I motor out to a spot that I wanna work, and all of a sudden, let's say I see Nate over there, I see where his bow is and I can see his paddle stroke flashing.

I know he's going that way. So, go somewhere else. He may have 200 yards to work, but that's etiquette for us is to be like, all right, back off, go to a different cove. Because yeah, it's just one of those things that you don't expect from the general populace. They could just come right in and cut you off.

But as a guide you have to respect the fact that we're both working and he was there first. And my paddling is a trolling motor, so it's a lot easier for me to move. So you take that into account too.

That's probably one of the great things about living and working with a guide community as opposed to guides being in the general population, you get the opportunity to build that expectation between guides a little bit more strongly, which is great. We here on the Texas coast have a similar sort of situation. So it's good to hear that y'all have really got it nailed down. 

Jon:

It is a very small community in the Grand Lake Stream. So if you start to do something that isn't liked by the other guides, you'll find out pretty quick. In every group of people there will be misunderstandings, but if you were the type of person that's gonna keep cutting somebody off or doing something that is frowned upon, they'll let you know.

Austin:

Well, Jon, thanks so much for the great conversation, man. We really appreciate it. There is tons of excellent information in there. We've got. One last question to get to, but before we do, I wanted to give you an opportunity to give yourself a little bit of a shout out as well as your outfit or your lodge that you work with and any socials that you would like us to check up with you on.

Jon:

You can find me on petersonguideme.com. That's my website. My Instagram handle is @Petersonguideme and on Facebook it's Peterson's Guide Service of Maine. And the lodge that I've been referencing is Weatherby’s Lodge.

It's an Orvis endorsed lodge in Grand Lake Stream. That's where I do a lot of my work. I also am sponsored by Crestliner Boats through Clark Marine, which is a marine service in Manchester, Maine. 

I also work with HMH Fly Tying company, which is a fly tying vice company. And that's what I tie on. And during the winter when I'm not totally busy, I work at the shop when I can. So definitely those are the shout outs and if I forgot something, I'm sorry. 

So if you've hung around to this part of the show, thank you so much for your support.

As a gift to folks like you, I'll be posting pictures and casting skills specific to each podcast episode on the Guide Talk podcast Instagram account. So be sure to check it out. Also, if you have questions or guides you'd like to suggest I interview, that's also a great place to contact me. Well enough of me talking.

Finally, last question before we kick it off here. Other than tipping, what is one thing that an angler that fishes with you can do to make your job better or easier or, give us the goods? 

So for me it's just, just taking everything in and truly not, don't be patronizing about it.

I've had clients who gave their kids a speech before they got on the boat and they said, listen, we're gonna do everything we can to catch fish, but you guys gotta understand that it just may not work out.

And Captain Jon's gonna do everything he can to get us in the fish, but you guys cannot get upset if we don't catch many fish or fish at all. And then they enjoy every part of the experience, like from being on a boat, being in the water, being in a beautiful spot, and just taking the whole experience in and actually learning something.

So don't just gimme lip service, actually do it and enjoy what you're doing. I mean, tipping is great. Don't get me wrong. It's appreciated, not expected. I'm like, I mean, who, who's not gonna want extra money for doing extra work because we do a lot on the side, trust me.

But having that good personality and just taking in the experience. Cuz not everybody has the opportunity to go on a guided trip. Yeah. Yep. So you should feel blessed that you're out there, going on a guided trip in a beautiful part of our country. 

Yeah. Yep. Well, John, that's an excellent final tip to end with.

We really appreciate it. You and I are gonna hang around and chat a little bit after we hang up the phone here, but great talking to you. I really hope I get to get up to your part of the world and experience some of that awesome fishing. And from the chat that we had beforehand, I know that there's way more fish, way more styles of fishing that you like to do.

So we're obviously gonna have to get back together and Yeah. And talk a little bit about that as we get through the year. I know you've got. Striped bass there and other salty critters that are in your nearshore and offshore waters. So that's that's obviously gonna have to be another conversation.

I look forward to that. 

Absolutely. Well, it was a pleasure. 

Yes, sir. All right, well, we'll talk soon. Bye for now.