00;00;02;16 - 00;00;30;13
Brenton
This is further a weekly show for the people of Harmony Bible Church, where we seek to revisit and expand on Sunday sermons with the goal of growing deeper in biblical truth that transforms our lives. Welcome back to Further. I'm Brenton Graham and I'm here with Chris Carr. On Sunday, we heard a message on Romans 217 through 29 and and that's what we will be discussing today.

00;00;31;00 - 00;00;57;26
Brenton
And at the outset. Today I'd like to introduce two terms that I think could be helpful in this discussion. One you're likely familiar with is legalism. Essentially, this is where someone trusts that they are justified under God by the way that they keep the law. And the second term is antinomianism This is kind of the other side of the coin, but has the same root problem as legalism.

00;00;58;15 - 00;01;22;08
Brenton
Antinomianism says Since I'm justified by faith, I'm no longer bound to keep the law. Sometimes these can be in response to the other. In cases where someone is is hurt by legalism in the past, they might find it more comfortable on the it. I know me inside leader. Of course, these are two different ditches that we do not want to fall into.

00;01;22;20 - 00;01;50;27
Brenton
We recognize that the law is not what saves us. In fact, Paul has made it clear that we cannot be saved by it. On the other hand, God's law is perfect, and it's his standard for us. A true Christians should find joy in obeying his law not to earn favor, but because we already have favor through Christ. And so I think these two terms are important here because it seems to be what Paul is accusing the Jews of in Romans two.

00;01;50;27 - 00;02;13;00
Brenton
He's saying you live legalistic early on the outside while not acknowledging or giving weight to your own sin. And I don't think this is a problem that is unique to first century Jews either, too. We'll get back to this a little later. But first, I want to talk a little bit about circumcision and the New Testament sign baptism.

00;02;13;00 - 00;02;17;14
Brenton
So, Chris, is there a parallel between circumcision and baptism?

00;02;18;14 - 00;02;38;00
Chris
Absolutely. And I think in many ways it would be appropriate to where we see circumcision in our passage to just put in New Testament baptism. We've got to be careful with that because it's not an exact parallel and would need some further consideration. But in many ways, yes, we can. We could do that.

00;02;38;22 - 00;02;50;18
Brenton
And so would it be fair to to continue the point that Paul's making about circumcision, that it's only a value if we are if we have a heart that wants to obey. Is that true of baptisms as well?

00;02;51;24 - 00;03;24;19
Chris
Yes. Baptism doesn't actually do anything for us, Salvific Lee. It's simply meant to signify that we have been saved and Paul talks about a circumcision only being a value in verse 25 if you obey. What we've got to understand is that really it is an obedience that is affected by the fact that God has declared us to be obedient, to be righteous in Jesus Christ.

00;03;24;19 - 00;03;51;22
Chris
So as we've been talking about for several weeks, when we place our faith in Jesus, God credits Jesus's righteousness, slash obedience to us, and we see in our texts and He gives us a new heart. And it's a new heart that wants to obey. And so that's where baptism becomes valuable because it signifies the internal change that God has brought about by the Holy Spirit in crediting, you know, Jesus righteousness to us, making us right with God.

00;03;51;22 - 00;04;03;24
Chris
And there therefore, now that we are right with God in Christ, we have a heart that wants to obey and that will, although not perfectly obey him.

00;04;04;20 - 00;04;30;12
Brenton
Good. I think I'm possibly inferring this from the text, but it seems like one issue that the audience of this letter struggles with is comparing themselves against other people and not comparing themselves against the law. And I think that's something we continued to do today. Why do you think that? That's our natural tendency?

00;04;31;04 - 00;04;56;21
Chris
So I do think you're right. Brenton is a good observation that the people that Paul is addressing here, we're comparing others. And I think of the the passage in Luke 18 where Jesus tells the the parable between the fair seeing then tax collector and you remember that parable and Jesus. There's two men that go to the temple to pray.

00;04;56;22 - 00;05;21;18
Chris
One's a Pharisee, the other's tax collector, and the Pharisee stands by himself and praise God, I thank you that I'm not like other men. Extortion is unjust, adulterous, or even like this tax collector. Yeah. And so that's, I think, very much in Paul's mind as he's writing our text. And I think it's the same kind of thing, though, that we regularly do today.

00;05;21;18 - 00;05;50;24
Chris
I know that I do it more often than I really care to admit. And I think it comes down to when we compare ourselves to others. And normally we're only going to compare ourselves to others in a spiritual sense, probably when when we're doing better than they are, or at least most of the time. And by doing better than other people, I think we convince ourselves that that means that we're good.

00;05;51;20 - 00;06;10;04
Chris
They're they're not as good as we are. We're better than them. So that means that we're good with God. And it's just a natural bend of the human, sinful heart to always look not to God standard, but to what other people are doing who are not doing it as good as it is. We are.

00;06;10;06 - 00;06;12;01
Brenton
Yeah, it's a lower bar for us.

00;06;12;09 - 00;06;40;19
Chris
Right? You may remember from elementary, I think pretty much everybody is familiar with this is one of the slogans we learned early on in life is, I know you are, but what am I? And that's the comparison game. Yeah, we learn it, right? Okay. Very, very early in life. And we will do it. Most of us, the entirety of our lives to some degree.

00;06;40;19 - 00;07;09;10
Chris
And I really think part of the scientific mission for process for us as Christians is to and really, I think what Paul is trying to get to here is we've got to stop comparing ourselves to others and recognize that no matter how good we are, we will never meet God's standard. But in the transition, Paul is going to get to here at the end of chapter three and then really the rest of the letter is that now in Christ we are good enough and we meet the standard.

00;07;09;15 - 00;07;22;09
Chris
And because that's true of us, we no longer have to compare ourselves to others who no longer have to judge others. And that just makes all the difference in the world.

00;07;22;18 - 00;07;56;26
Brenton
Yeah, hypocrisy is obviously a big problem in the church, and it always has been. I've been reading R.C. Sproles commentary on on Romans and he had a quote from from there. He says, We have set a high standard for our behavior within the church, which can be a practical problem. We encourage people to grow in faith, in sanctification, but at the same time, we pressure them so that they feel they have to pretend to be more righteous than they actually are.

00;07;57;21 - 00;08;18;14
Brenton
And so we have high standards, and we should, because God has high standards. But how can we at Harmony have an environment that that isn't fake about our sin, where we feel comfortable in being honest with ourselves and others about our struggles?

00;08;19;21 - 00;08;54;15
Chris
I think it comes down to two key terms Mercy and grace. So one of the Beatitudes, blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. And as we talked about last fall in our series on the Sermon on the Mount, what that means is that those who have truly received mercy will be merciful. And it really is again, back to the gospel that when we understand our position on our own before God, in the fact that he has shown us incredible mercy.

00;08;55;05 - 00;09;23;26
Chris
And as we go back to that over and over again, that makes us merciful people. So we need to have a culture in our church where in many ways, our first response is to people in their sin, as is mercy. And then along with mercy, the other really side of mercy is grace. So mercy is where we we don't get what we deserve and grace is where we get what we don't deserve.

00;09;25;05 - 00;09;52;19
Chris
And so we want to be merciful. And we not we don't want to bring the hammer down on people. We don't want to judge them. And then at the same time, we want to show them grace. We want to we want to show them love. We want to give them compassion. We want to come alongside of them. And so this doesn't mean that we excuse and, you know, or that we we we kind of just sweep it under the rug.

00;09;52;26 - 00;10;23;05
Chris
It's no big deal that goes back to that internal mechanism issue that you were talking about earlier. And in fact, part of showing grace to people is actually at times maybe confronting them with their sin. Certainly Galatians six one If you find someone who is trapped in a sin, you are spiritual, should restore them gently so that that certainly is certainly needs to be in play and needs to be a consideration.

00;10;23;05 - 00;10;53;14
Chris
But we really need that culture not only of mercy for sure, but then then grace is Grace as well is like, we're going to do what we need to do to come alongside people and to just model the grace that God gives us through Jesus. And this takes a lot of a lot of work because so many of us at Harmony come from church backgrounds where there's been a lack of mercy and a lack of grace.

00;10;53;14 - 00;11;32;03
Chris
And so it's something we kind of got to stumble through because in order for people to get comfortable with actually sharing their sins and being open about it, it it, it takes them an experience of, of of mercy and grace. And that can be hard for people that can be really tentative about doing so. It is one of the reasons that over the last couple of years, I think if people been paying attention, they've noted that I've shared shared more about my own kind of personal struggles and failures.

00;11;32;03 - 00;11;56;04
Chris
And one of the reasons I've done that is to hopefully help to to further a culture where we are we are a willing to share our struggles, but then where we we on the other side, when people share those struggles, our response isn't judgment, but is in some cases there but the grace of God go. I think in some cases I've I've been there.

00;11;57;15 - 00;12;20;15
Chris
But regardless, whether you have or haven't been there, I'm going to be merciful to to this person. And my attitude, my bent is going to be one of compassion and. And then out of that mercy, compassion, I'm going to seek to show them grace, which will mean how do I come alongside and help them?

00;12;21;12 - 00;12;50;00
Brenton
Yeah, that's really good. That's a good point about you and leadership kind of needing to be open and real with with real struggles. And I think that kind of sets the tone for it. I mean, going back to the the legalism and anti no mean as and that's the neither of those are what we preach here at Harmony but they're both ditches that are easy to fall into.

00;12;50;03 - 00;13;04;15
Brenton
And so those kind of those kind of things can happen easily if we don't have a culture that is constantly being vigilant about taking sin seriously while also covering all that with grace.

00;13;05;24 - 00;13;46;26
Chris
Yeah, and the crazy thing about it is that we normally are I shouldn't say normally, but a lot of times people will swing from one end of the pendulum to the other, and people who come out of legalistic backgrounds can easily end up on the into no modernism side and they throw off all kind of rules and all kind of really just any really mandate or thought that they need to be obedient and they will treat any type of, you know, standards or rules as is legalistic or cry that out.

00;13;47;09 - 00;14;13;25
Chris
And then people who maybe have lived in and to know me in lifestyle can also end up being really, really legalistic because they've been convicted that things are wrong. And so for them, they've been convicted it for themselves and then they want to make that same conviction for everybody else. So I'm going to use an example here, and maybe this will help.

00;14;13;25 - 00;14;46;18
Chris
But take about take the the alcohol issue. Many people from legalistic backgrounds will obviously say that, you know, it's wrong to drink alcohol and we could have maybe an episode, whole episode on that point. But but then when they come out of legalism, they may come to the conclusion that that's certainly not what we find in the Scripture, that it's prohibited.

00;14;47;22 - 00;15;17;04
Chris
We're rather with the Bible with would say things about don't get drunk. But what they will do is then maybe once they have the freedom is that they will go too far with that freedom and they will also in particular just kind of flaunt it a a particularly around people who whose conscience may not really allow them to to to partake.

00;15;17;14 - 00;15;52;12
Chris
And so they will abuse their freedom. And so I remember years ago I was on a golf course in Singapore. So and I was talking with a fellow pastor friend of mine, and he had come out of a more legalistic background and one where alcohol was prohibited. And now he had found freedom in the church. He was a part of the they, you know, had freedom to partake.

00;15;52;12 - 00;16;10;24
Chris
And he he said to me on the golf course, he says, Now, don't you think we we ought to drink because we have this this freedom? And I was just thinking, well, you may be free to do it, but that doesn't mean that you have to do it.

00;16;11;01 - 00;16;11;14
Brenton
Sure.

00;16;12;07 - 00;16;29;11
Chris
And and so it it actually what it ends up being is and so being this is crazy to think becomes a legalism on the other side is that now you're not spiritual unless you do drink That's that's actually what he was saying in order to be spiritual you need to drink. And I'm more spiritual now because I do.

00;16;29;11 - 00;16;34;22
Chris
And that's just again, swinging the pendulum too far to the other side.

00;16;34;22 - 00;17;05;07
Brenton
We need to be careful that we're not binding others consciences on these issues to correct. Okay. As a as a part of your application, you named a few possibilities as to how our hearts may be hardened over time. And even if we have received a new heart, that hardening can still can still happen. I think sometimes it's hard to recognize this in yourself until you take a step back because it can happen so gradually over time.

00;17;06;06 - 00;17;11;22
Brenton
What what would be some indicators to know if our hearts have grown colder in this way?

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Chris
Sure. Hopefully this will be helpful to you. We can list the number of them and maybe Brennan. You would have a couple to to hear, to share. I would think one of them would be a dwindling desire to be in God's word, to spend time with him in prayer, to be with God's people, to worship. And I think all of us know that this can go up and down throughout life.

00;17;50;26 - 00;18;13;23
Chris
There are peaks in their valleys, and I don't think it's necessarily something to be alarmed with if if that those valleys occur. It's just we don't want them to last for too long. Another indication here's one for me would be cynicism.

00;18;14;28 - 00;18;15;19
Brenton
You stole mine.

00;18;15;29 - 00;19;09;03
Chris
I saw yours. Maybe that's because we've talked about it before and just a lack of hope for situations, for the world, for people, for ourselves, and where we just have a have a bent to look at things from a negative perspective and always, you know, looking at what's wrong rather than looking for what's right. I think one we've already talked about is a kind of a critical, judgmental spirit toward other people, organizations, church, other churches, sometimes maybe even ourselves.

00;19;09;26 - 00;19;26;23
Chris
I think that Hard heart can be where we refusing to forgive somebody else and we're holding something against other people. And so those are the first ones that come to mind for me at least.

00;19;27;19 - 00;19;54;21
Brenton
I think if I'm being honest, the cynicism one has been a big one for me and it kind of causes my me to retreat inside of myself. And I'm not nearly as outward focused. And so that and I think, yeah, you mentioned the critical spirit. That's that's definitely one of my bends in that time, too. So, yeah, those are, those are good things to look out for.

00;19;55;14 - 00;20;19;18
Chris
Yeah. And I think that we probably ought to go to Scripture and you can look at the fruit of the spirit in the fruit of the flesh and you know, are, are we exhibiting more of this for the spirit and than we are the fruit of the flesh, and specifically any of those through the flesh, things that are just apparent in our in our lives.

00;20;19;18 - 00;20;37;06
Chris
And I think if we're were honest with ourselves and we examine ourselves, we will will find that probably at any one point in time. There are some parts of our our heart that are hardened toward the Lord.

00;20;37;13 - 00;21;00;14
Brenton
Yeah. And I think I've also found that it's it's really easy to rationalize that in your own mind to that. Well, there's there's a reason I feel like this. And so one thing that's helpful is going outside of your own mind and talking to someone who knows you well. And so get some actual opinions outside of yourself. Yeah, that's good.

00;21;01;09 - 00;21;32;06
Brenton
All right. Well, that's all I have today. Appreciate it, Chris. And we'll talk to you next week.