00:00:02:13 - 00:00:23:04
Brenton
This is further a weekly show for the people of Harmony Bible Church, where we seek to revisit and expand on Sunday sermons with the goal of growing deeper in biblical truth that transforms our lives. Welcome back to further Britten Grimm. And today we're back to just the two of us. Welcome, Chris.

00:00:24:06 - 00:00:26:10
Chris
Good to be with you again.

00:00:27:03 - 00:00:56:07
Brenton
In the next few weeks. I mentioned it last week, but we're going to have a few special guests. There's going to be a bonus episode in the next week. And so, yeah, we're just really excited about getting some more people into to talk about leaving a godly legacy. And we have some some gas line up that have just have a lot of experience in in this and so just really excited to talk to them and I hope it will be beneficial to you So be watching for those.

00:00:56:14 - 00:01:22:13
Brenton
This last week, Chris, you gave a message out of collections three and really just talking about the heart of of a godly legacy. And so I appreciate that and definitely a component in here that we really need to consider. You mentioned that in verse two when Paul says, Set your mind minds on things that are above what he's really talking about is our desires.

00:01:23:13 - 00:01:45:19
Brenton
I thought it might be useful to do a quick etymology on the word mind to kind of look back at what Paul actually meant by by that. And I think what another relevant part of this is in Matthew 22, where Jesus is saying that we need to love, love the Lord with all of our heart, soul and mind.

00:01:46:07 - 00:01:47:22
Brenton
What does mind mean there?

00:01:49:09 - 00:02:28:23
Chris
Sure. First thing I would say is that we have a tendency to make a pretty big disconnect between our mind and our heart. And that's not really the way that the Bible does it. So you mentioned Matthew 2237 Love, Lord, your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. And I really think that when Jesus is getting that, there's we're two Lord, the Lord with everything that we are with our whole person, and that we probably shouldn't make a big distinction between our heart, mind, soul and strength.

00:02:29:05 - 00:03:17:22
Chris
So obviously the mind does have to do with our thoughts, but not disconnected from our desires. And actually in our passage this week, if you read in the end AB translation, it actually says Set your heart on the things above in verse one and then set your mind on things above. And so in verse one, we're really talking about desires, but even in, in verse two, with our minds there, if you look back at what the Greek word is pointing to, there is there are thoughts, but the thoughts with an underlying attitude and disposition so that they're not disconnected from what we are desiring, what we are we are longing for.

00:03:18:21 - 00:03:46:02
Chris
And I think that what Paul is really trying to get at here is that we're just again, I think it's very much the same thing as Jesus talking about in Matthew 2237. I appreciate you bringing that verse up. It's like if you were to go after Jesus with everything in us and there is a close connection between what we think and what we do, we desire.

00:03:47:07 - 00:04:12:08
Chris
And in many ways, and I think we can even see this in our texts and what Paul is trying to do. Our thoughts are the gateway to our desires and that what goes into our mind and what we think upon greatly impacts our desires. And then our desires tend to actually influence what we think about this. It's a two way street there.

00:04:12:08 - 00:04:12:18
Chris
Yeah.

00:04:13:10 - 00:04:37:00
Brenton
Yeah. Well, I think we don't want to go either of two directions. I mean, our mind is absolutely important. We need to think correct things, but that shouldn't stay by itself. We shouldn't just have knowledge in our head, but we also don't want to go the other way and only have feelings and and not think about hard things.

00:04:37:01 - 00:04:51:06
Brenton
And so, yeah, I think I like how you're kind of bringing them all together into what really are are the heart really is fully encompassing of of ourselves.

00:04:51:09 - 00:05:25:01
Chris
Mm hmm. So yeah, I think if we we look maybe a little bit historically or generationally, it used to be like focus on thoughts and, you know, in truth and what we're thinking and let's, let's if we just know the right stuff, the right, the truths that, that that's going to that's going to be enough. And tending to ignore emotions and feelings and the desires of our heart.

00:05:25:01 - 00:05:46:21
Chris
And now today, it tends to go the other way where it's all about what's going on inside and and internally and how we're feeling and all those kind of things. And it can't be either one or the other. It needs to be both of those things. And again, that's what you're saying, love a larger God with everything that that is in you.

00:05:46:21 - 00:06:07:03
Chris
And so our mind is important and what we what we think about and what we know and what I mean by, you know, talk of the word know for a second. Yeah, we we a lot of times think no means simply a mental knowledge. But in the Bible, no, it has to do with relationship to know when and relational way.

00:06:08:02 - 00:06:38:02
Chris
And so it's not simply about a mental knowledge, it's also about a heart's desire. And I, I refer to this on a somewhat regular basis. James says, You know, the demons believe that there's a God and they tremble. So I say this on a regular basis Who's the greatest theologian on the planet? It's Satan. He he knows more Bible truths and theological truths than than anybody.

00:06:38:02 - 00:07:03:09
Chris
But does he actually know God? And and again, he he knows him for sure better probably than any of us do, in the sense of knowing things about him, having history with him. He's that way. But he doesn't have a heart that loves God. Yeah, that that truly knows him. And so it's it's not again, one or the other.

00:07:03:12 - 00:07:10:06
Chris
It's both. And we can't ignore either our thoughts, our mind, or the desires of our heart.

00:07:10:11 - 00:07:17:01
Brenton
Yeah, and some of that is probably being willing to submit to what we know about God as well.

00:07:17:01 - 00:07:21:06
Chris
Yeah. Why don't you dive into that a little bit more? What do you mean?

00:07:21:06 - 00:07:37:10
Brenton
Well, I just. Your example of Satan. He knows more about God than we do. But yeah, he's. He's chosen to rebel against those things and not to and not to submit to God. And so that's. That's obviously why he's found himself where he is.

00:07:38:03 - 00:07:52:04
Chris
Right. And we can do the same thing. And in some ways, we we do it even as believers. We will rebel against God and refuse to submit against him. That's why this whole heart thing is so important.

00:07:53:02 - 00:08:16:23
Brenton
You know, it's good at the end of Colossians chapter two, Paul is kind of given the other side of this coin. He's he's talking about things that people use to kill the flesh but have no real value. And specifically, he brings up asceticism, which is where people will severely discipline themselves to abstain from everything that's that's viewed as worldly.

00:08:17:14 - 00:08:34:19
Brenton
And I doubt we have a real problem with asceticism here at Harmony. But but I do wonder what kind of practices that we employ to kill our flesh that are ultimately fruitless. Do you have any ideas on that? Sure.

00:08:35:20 - 00:09:06:04
Chris
I don't know that I have a ton of them, sure. But I do think there will be times where we prohibit ourselves from enjoying things that God has created for us to enjoy. And this is a you know, there's a fine line here to walk between enjoying the good things that God's created and actually becoming addicted to them.

00:09:07:06 - 00:09:36:19
Chris
I was having a conversation this morning with my 13 year old about an iPad and how and, you know, iPads can be good. God's given them to us and they there can be enjoyment and benefit from them. And he loves his iPad. But I was talking to him about how it can become something that becomes an idol because it becomes too important to us.

00:09:37:02 - 00:10:16:10
Chris
And so we can and it might be appropriate at times to say, hey, no, no more of that because it becomes a too big a deal for me. But in many ways that might simply be a temporary thing rather than saying I'm never going to take it up again and we can get to the point where we just wait way too much and it's all about, you know what we're not going to do instead of what we are going to do, because, you know, God creates things for us to enjoy and we should actually view the things that he has given us as ways to actually know him and honor him and to worship him.

00:10:16:10 - 00:10:42:02
Chris
But the point is not the actual the the thing. The point is him, you know? And so, yeah, it's a it's a really tough line here as to how we can go overboard in regard to that. And and I think that that's where the problem comes in is where we actually think and get focused on what we're not doing and how we're going to cut things out.

00:10:42:02 - 00:11:05:19
Chris
That actually makes us spiritual, that that itself makes us godly. That's where we get into the trouble. And for for me personally, where when I know that I'm crossing that line is when I start to look down on other people who are who are not doing what I'm doing or who are doing what I'm not doing. And I think that somehow that makes me better.

00:11:06:19 - 00:11:32:00
Chris
So I like in the last podcast we did last week, I mentioned some things like like I don't watch and I don't, you know, give myself to. And I think that, that that's appropriate as long as I'm not thinking that that makes me godly or more pleasing to God or it makes me in some ways more pleasing to God than other people.

00:11:32:18 - 00:11:35:00
Chris
And that's where I think we can we can cross the line.

00:11:35:08 - 00:12:18:21
Brenton
Yeah. And we'll we'll get to that a little bit in the next question. But I do want to kind of actually back to last week. And one thing that we kind of neglected to talk about because the time was fasting, things like technology or things that really just have a have a hold of our lives and that is kind of relevant here as we as we think about asceticism where we we don't want to totally cut those things out of our lives, but there are certainly times where we need to take a step back and kind of reassess what we're giving our time to.

00:12:19:15 - 00:12:26:02
Brenton
And that was something you brought up in the in the message last week. So do you want to expand on that a little bit?

00:12:26:13 - 00:13:14:00
Chris
Sure. Again, this is really hard to be balanced on. I think, and we can certainly go overboard. But it it's good for us to look at our lives and to just wrestle with as are there things that we are giving so much time to that they're preventing us from actually spending time with the Lord and giving ourselves to, as we talked about this week, the things that are above, the things of Christ and, you know, the language that Paul uses.

00:13:14:00 - 00:13:37:02
Chris
I mentioned this both these these last two weeks is very strong and very intense when it comes to killing the flesh, like kill it, crucify it, put it to death, put these things away. It just like hammers over and over again. And it's similar to what Jesus says in the Sermon on the Mount when he says, you know, if you're I offend you, walk it out.

00:13:37:02 - 00:14:10:21
Chris
If your hand causes you to say and cut it off and so I do think that there are times for us to be radical in in rooting things out. And sometimes we've got to to use, you know, another metaphor. We write the poem just for the mandate of yank it off and I think our unwillingness to actually do that shows how much how addicted we are.

00:14:10:21 - 00:14:36:23
Chris
So I can go back to the iPad example in the conversation this morning. I literally said to him, you're a you know, the way that you're reacting negatively to the thought of, you know, not having your iPad actually reveals how much you need to not have your iPad. And I don't want to pick on him because I have I have the same issue like with my my phone or my computer.

00:14:37:06 - 00:15:22:13
Chris
I try to each week take about 24 hours where I don't, you know, open my computer, don't look at email. And it's amazing to me how hard and how difficult that is. Yeah. And it it in I guess maybe the whole point here is that that discipline of actually doing that, it is it's good because it helps to free me from my reliance on that and, and opens up the possibility for me to give my attention to more attention to the things of Christ and things that are more important and more significant and more eternal.

00:15:23:00 - 00:15:23:07
Chris
Yeah.

00:15:24:08 - 00:15:48:06
Brenton
Yeah. And I think just another piece of that, I think it's it's probably it's harder to see those things in ourselves. And so I think that we should probably rely on those people that that know us best to point those things out in our lives. Well, I was hesitant to say that cause I know my wife's going to listen to this and so.

00:15:48:19 - 00:15:50:22
Chris
So what does that mean? What is she going to say? Oh.

00:15:51:07 - 00:15:55:17
Brenton
Good question. I don't know. I always had my phone in my hand, so.

00:15:55:17 - 00:16:27:16
Chris
Yeah, I mean, the phone's a really good example, though. Here is like I have just been wrestling with this fact as I am. I'm looking at it all the time. Yeah. And it's really, really hard to I mean, I will tell them, tell myself, you need you just need to stop looking. You need to put it down. And all of a sudden I'm just there and grabbing and like, I need that rush, I guess so to speak, to this, that dopamine rush you get when you're like, Oh, there's something, there's something on there.

00:16:28:19 - 00:16:34:03
Brenton
You got to keep up the Tucker Carlson story right?

00:16:34:03 - 00:16:39:01
Chris
Oh, boy. And no comment on that one.

00:16:39:17 - 00:16:51:07
Brenton
That's probably smart. Yeah. Yeah, I that's that's certainly an issue that I think a lot of us have is feel like feel like we need this thing in our hand all the time, too.

00:16:51:23 - 00:17:29:10
Chris
Well, let me give you the positive aspect of this. When when we do fast and and, you know, and again, temporarily step away from from these things, what that does is it opens us up to be able to experience the presence and the blessings of Christ. And in a greater way. And I really think the whole point here is, is that these things get good things most of the time, can get in the way of the best thing.

00:17:30:02 - 00:17:52:19
Chris
And we have to look at it. We have to look at fasting not as something, oh man, that's really hard. That's really, really difficult. And it's just like a negative kind of I just got to kind of, you know, white knuckle it and get through it. And that's kind of what the asceticism is. It's just all about like, here's what I'm doing and this is hard and we take it like that.

00:17:52:19 - 00:18:16:23
Chris
That's really the problem. We take pride in this and look at look at me. I'm fasting. You know, we do that. I don't if I see that, that's not that's not the blessing. The blessing is is that it creates room and it creates space for for for God to to meet us. So so be still and know that I am God.

00:18:18:13 - 00:18:34:16
Chris
You know, solitude can sound maybe really, really difficult for for some people, but solitude is a place where God can can meet you in the special and a unique way.

00:18:34:17 - 00:18:54:21
Brenton
Yeah, I appreciate those examples. That's really helpful to think about. And, and it, it does make it less of a duty for us when we when we know that there are blessings on the other side of what what might have to start out as kind of white knuckling it. Right. I mean that's when those things really have a grip on us.

00:18:54:21 - 00:19:03:06
Brenton
We do need to have that disciplined right to get rid of those things. But but there is blessing on the other side of being faithful to that.

00:19:03:12 - 00:19:24:05
Chris
Well, he's a running analogy I may refer to this next week when we actually talk about the the habits of a godly legacy. But I love to run it. So it's become a passion of mine. But that wasn't the case. So I came to Harmony and we had this thing, the 12 one run, and it was a big deal.

00:19:24:05 - 00:19:45:09
Chris
And here I am, the pastor. So I guess I got to get into this. And it was hard. It was it was difficult. I was almost 40 years old and hadn't run in a long, long time. Right. I probably would have only ran if somebody was chasing me or maybe a dog was chasing me, but I started doing it.

00:19:45:10 - 00:20:14:01
Chris
It was hard and it was difficult. But eventually, as I found that there were a lot of blessings that came with it. Health blessings for sure, but also it was just something that in a positive way I got just like addicted to. And so now if I don't run for a couple of days or a week, it's like I just have a real desire to get out there and do it.

00:20:14:13 - 00:20:34:14
Chris
And I think that that's been my experience when it comes to things like most spiritual disciplines and habits is like, Yeah, it can be hard at the beginning, but then you get to the place where you almost can't live without it.

00:20:34:14 - 00:20:39:01
Brenton
Yeah, well, we don't share our love for running there, but good for you.

00:20:39:17 - 00:20:41:21
Chris
I see you at Planet Fitness every once in a while.

00:20:41:22 - 00:21:05:02
Brenton
It's been a while, I think. I think one thing that all of us struggle with, at least to some extent in this area and you kind of touched on it earlier, but is trying to give the appearance of godliness and our priority sometimes can be how we look to other people instead of truly seeking the things that are above.

00:21:05:16 - 00:21:24:21
Brenton
And I think that this may even be an effective motivator to kill sin for a while. But I think we we would both agree that in the end it's useless. How can we consistently check our motives while while pursuing this end?

00:21:24:21 - 00:22:03:16
Chris
I guess I would just say, first of all, that we just need to make sure that we are checking our motives. And you know, you think about David Psalm 51, where you just saying, God, you know, look at my heart, show me where I've gone wrong and create a right spirit in me. And so just having that again is kind of a habit or a part of our even prayer life.

00:22:03:16 - 00:22:37:19
Chris
So you think of the disciples prayer and where you know, yeah, Jesus telling us to ask for forgiveness of our sins, forgive us our debts and so just going to those who are that, I think also community having other people around us, we all need to have people in our lives who we are open with and we're willing to allow them to say, and we really even ask them to question us and or to point things out as way like, Hey, where's your heart was?

00:22:38:00 - 00:23:03:18
Chris
Wait, why are you doing that? Why are you thinking that I may talk in that way? And just being open to that and recognizing that our our mode that we can get off kilter really quickly. We have that tendency, that old nature is in us, and we can we can get wonky, real, real quick. And so we need to regularly keep that before us and have others keep up for us.

00:23:05:05 - 00:23:17:17
Brenton
Yeah, that's hard. I think you talk about having someone in your life that will question your motives. I think that it takes a good friend to be able to do that. And it I think.

00:23:18:22 - 00:23:19:15
Chris
We're we're.

00:23:19:15 - 00:23:42:01
Brenton
Kind of lucky if we have someone that will kind of question our actions. But to get down to the motive of what we're doing, that it really does take a lot of work to develop relationships like that, that you're comfortable to to have those. But it's good advice. I think one thing you had mentioned earlier is just pride of, hey, I'm not doing this thing that you're doing.

00:23:42:01 - 00:24:05:18
Brenton
That's something that can sneak into all of our minds. And that's it's such a twisted way of looking at this that we're just kind of trading trading one sin for another one. Sure. And there's there's no value in it, ultimately. And just looking good to other people. But that's that's how we twisted in our heads so often.

00:24:06:14 - 00:24:38:03
Chris
Well, and that's actually more dangerous, in my opinion, is that when you get the attitude that you're doing it to make yourself look better than other people, to justify yourself and you're better off just not doing it at all, because then you're being yourself, you're being self deceives. I do want to go back circle back to the to the friendship part of that, just something that we have to get to cultivate.

00:24:38:07 - 00:25:13:23
Chris
And it does take work and it does, you know, honestly, a lot of times it takes asking the Lord to bring those people into your life and helping you to be open with them and being humble enough to receive it from that. That's a big part of it. It's yeah, well, because you if you don't receive it well, it's going to be hard for people to actually ask those questions and bring those things out.

00:25:14:11 - 00:25:20:19
Chris
And so but it's really it's really important and crucial.

00:25:21:06 - 00:25:40:15
Brenton
Yeah, Well, not only is it kind of holding back the pride that that wants to fight against what they're saying, but it's also following through and being consistent on the other end of are you are you actually making taking the steps to to make the changes in your life And that's in our Yeah.

00:25:40:15 - 00:26:15:12
Chris
And I would just say to you, I know I'm circling back here to this, but I can't emphasize enough, especially because I think it's a very weak point for many of us, is that if we don't have time where we are separating our or selves from technology and the like, the noise where we're cutting through the noise and we're spending time in silence, solitude, prayer and Bible study it, this just it's just not it's not going to happen like those those.

00:26:15:12 - 00:26:44:14
Chris
But I really do think one of the devil's primary tactics today is to keep us so busy, so preoccupied that we don't even have time to question our our motives of why we're doing what we're doing. And so many of us, we end up doing things and giving our lives to things and then we look back and we're like, Why in the world did I, did I do that, that I spend so much time or money on that?

00:26:45:06 - 00:27:19:23
Chris
And it ends up happening because we've just we're so crazy busy and preoccupied that that time to actually examine why we're doing what we're doing is is missing. And I really do. I mean, we'll probably talk about this more next week, but I think it's a huge, huge issue. And really one of the primary reasons why we are doing this series, we haven't quite gotten to it yet, but we're going to get to it here this coming Sunday with the podcast next week and then with our workshop.

00:27:20:02 - 00:27:42:11
Brenton
Yeah, and it's great. It's good. That's I find it interesting that the first step of Paul's solution to our second problem is to know the truth of what Christ did for us. And this kind of gets back to the mind question from earlier. But we see the same thing in Romans six where he says, How can we who died to sin still live in it?

00:27:42:11 - 00:28:02:11
Brenton
Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with Him by baptism, into death, in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. And he's saying, Look, these these things are true for you.

00:28:02:11 - 00:28:25:07
Brenton
Now you've died to sin. And like you said on Sunday, he his advice, his his command is not just do it, just suck it up and and kill this sin. And I think I think at this point, this points to the importance of not only studying the gospel deeply, but theology in general. What do you think about that?

00:28:26:05 - 00:28:47:07
Chris
I agree. I'm going to turn this one back on you here in just a minute, because I know that you care about theology deeply. And this is a kind of a passion point for you. So I'll give you a moment to get prepared to answer the question I'm going to ask. But, yeah, this is why we preach the gospel literally every week.

00:28:47:22 - 00:29:16:13
Chris
And and I sometimes feel like a broken record, but I'm going to continue to this sound, this this truth, this reality, this really life and eternity change the truth about what God has done for us through through Jesus, because that really is ultimately the only thing that can can change our heart. But I would expand that really to theology in general.

00:29:16:22 - 00:30:04:14
Chris
The more that we we know the truth, you know, Jesus, you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. What's going to set our heart free is the truth. And that starts with the gospel. And then it goes out from from everything that is connected and tied into the gospel. And unfortunately for I think for a lot of us at times, theology has been delivered to us in dry, boring way and just kind of reciting the facts and instead of taking it back to the truth of the gospel, helping us understand the big picture of why these things are important and not done in a way that it seems like the person

00:30:04:16 - 00:30:40:02
Chris
who is actually delivering the material is excited about what they're talking about. Yeah, for sure. Or passionate about it, but it's wonderful is beautiful theology is is is amazing. If we really deliver it, understand it, study it, look at it in the right way. But I do want to push that back on onto you. And, you know, you say this points to the importance not only of studying the gospel, but theology in general.

00:30:40:02 - 00:30:49:06
Chris
And so where does that question come from? You develop that question. Why even does that question come up?

00:30:50:06 - 00:31:19:09
Brenton
Yeah, I think some of it comes back to the first question we we asked in this and Paul's call to set your mind on things that are above and and Jesus is calling in Matthew to love, love God with all of our heart, soul, strength of mind. And that I think if we don't have a clear picture of who God is and what he's done, how how do we do that?

00:31:19:10 - 00:31:48:10
Brenton
How do we set our minds on those things? How do we how do we love God if we don't know who he is? And so that's that's kind of the basis of it. I would also say that just experientially some of the the most obvious times of growth in my life as far as killing sin has been when I've really given myself to study of theology.

00:31:49:00 - 00:32:23:10
Brenton
And I think that there there should be and maybe not always, but there should be a natural outflowing of of gratitude, of love for Christ as we study what what he's done for us. And so I just think that there's there's an endless amount of value in knowing God and and knowing, knowing and knowing ourselves, too. I mean, anthropology is a big part of this, too, knowing who we are and how God created us.

00:32:23:10 - 00:32:48:01
Brenton
And, you know, I think I think some of it is just the image of God coming out in us that that we are we we're reflecting His glory. And these things should be saying should be interesting to us and we should want to dive into it. And I think that you're right that that hasn't always been handled the best.

00:32:48:01 - 00:33:21:02
Brenton
I think that mean if if your presentation of theology is boring, then you think that's a bummer because the stuff is is not is not boring at all. I mean, when we look at the imputation of Christ righteousness into our lives, it's not a boring subject. It shouldn't be presented that way. And so, yeah, I don't know. Again, that's been the most growth I've seen in my life is when I'm when I'm most growing in knowledge of God.

00:33:22:04 - 00:33:44:13
Chris
So follow up question Where did your love for theology come from? You're eating at a seminary like, just like I didn't go to seminary. Yeah, but you obviously have a passion for theology, so, I mean, you didn't go to to Bible College. You know, I don't think I was.

00:33:44:19 - 00:33:45:09
Brenton
I was really.

00:33:46:13 - 00:33:52:12
Chris
A great, well, you know, love for theology. So where where did it come from?

00:33:52:21 - 00:33:54:12
Brenton
Yeah, that's a good question.

00:33:54:12 - 00:34:00:08
Chris
I think if you had gone to Iowa, you might have gotten a love for theology.

00:34:00:09 - 00:34:33:22
Brenton
But who knows what my love before? I'm kidding. No, I think I had friends in college that were interested in the same thing. One one specifically, I can think of that really introduced me to kind of more reformed theology that I don't know it it captured it captured my attention. And the more the more I kind of jumped into it, the more I wanted to learn.

00:34:33:22 - 00:35:04:02
Brenton
And so then I would countless hours listening to Can I say Mark Driscoll in here to him. And, you know, I don't know that it's a good question. It was just it was there's a never ending supply of of information here. And so yeah I would say it started with just getting a community that cared about the same things.

00:35:04:02 - 00:35:36:08
Chris
Yeah. You mentioned Mark Driscoll. I just would say that's a great example of how a guy can work through very broken people. Absolutely. And yeah, he, he has shown himself certainly to, to be a man lacking in character, but at the same time gifted and, and he was used by God in a lot of lives especially young men for quite some time.

00:35:36:09 - 00:35:51:15
Brenton
Yeah absolutely. I was very heavily influenced at the time and even looking back and I've kind of realized things that, you know, I made that decision because of what he was saying and maybe wasn't the best thing, but but he got me thinking about a lot of things as well. Yeah.

00:35:52:03 - 00:36:24:17
Chris
So for sure. Yeah. So that's good to know. I, I just, I can't agree with you more that theology is when it's, when it's presented and and then pursued in the right way. It's really it's transformational and it's something that's not just reserved for pastors, elders, staff members, or elite elite Christians or whatever, but theology is for everyone.

00:36:25:00 - 00:36:33:11
Chris
And if we're going to love the Lord, our God with all our heart, soul, mind, strength, we have to give ourselves to to theology. It doesn't happen. Aside from that.

00:36:34:03 - 00:36:48:10
Brenton
Maybe I'll ask you what's a practical step that someone that that hasn't kind of dove into in the past? What would you suggest? How how should they start that kind of that journey?

00:36:48:10 - 00:37:24:05
Chris
Well, one of the things we've used here a lot are books by Wayne Graham. So anger in him has a massive systematic theology, which is is pretty accessible and I've handed that out a little bit like candy over the years then very influential for me but but maybe for somebody getting started out he has actually has two shorter versions of that one's called Bible doctrine and one is I believe I can't remember the title, we can put it in the show notes.

00:37:24:08 - 00:38:06:22
Chris
I think it's 20, 20 different chapters and 20 different Bible doctrines. And it's pretty introductory and elementary. And so that that book is a really great place to start. I'd say, you know, your big R.C. small fan, I you know, he has some really good, good stuff to get started there as well. Yeah absolutely And and from a you know if you're doing talk about harmony going to our equip you classes is one of the primary reasons that we have that and I'd love to see, you know, that ministry grow and more people take advantage of what we've got there.

00:38:06:22 - 00:38:30:16
Chris
We've got some great teachers, we've got some great material, and it's going to be presented again and in a way that is interesting and helpful. So that's where I would tell people to get started and really just ask. I mean, send us an email, talk to one of our elders or pastors, and we actually even have just different avenues for people to to start going down that road.

00:38:30:16 - 00:39:13:09
Brenton
Yeah, yeah, it's good. A lot of resources have been made here and they encourage you, just encourage you to, to take advantage of that. So. All right, Chris, well, I appreciate the conversation today and I yeah, I'll talk to you guys next week.