00;00;02;16 - 00;00;26;22
Brenton
This is further a weekly show for the people of Harmony Bible Church, where we seek to revisit and expand on Sunday sermons with the goal of growing deeper in biblical truth that transforms our lives. Welcome back to Further. My name is Brenton Grimm, and I'm joined by just Chris Carr again today. Coming off of a message last week on Roman five one through five.

00;00;26;27 - 00;00;53;21
Brenton
And I think we're just going to jump right into it. So my first question is a big a big topic this week was suffer ing and how there are real benefits that come from it. And I think most Christians would agree that when we look back at past events, that that's true, but that's not necessarily the first response when suffering begins.

00;00;53;21 - 00;01;05;19
Brenton
And so how should we kind of prepare for suffering knowing that it will be coming? And there's a great reward on the other side of it?

00;01;05;21 - 00;01;26;14
Chris
It was a great question. The first thing I would say is that we we need to actually prepare for it. The Bible is clear that if we're going to follow Jesus, we're going to suffer. So it's like a Timothy three. In verse 12, Paul says that all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.

00;01;26;16 - 00;01;51;12
Chris
And we also know for Peter, chapter four, verse 12, Peter says, Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you as a something strange were happening to you. And I think a lot of times we do think that suffering is strange when it happens to us. And yet, as I've just even quoted just two verses, there's many more I could we're going to to suffer.

00;01;51;12 - 00;02;21;24
Chris
Really. Everybody suffer suffer as believers, unbelievers, but believers in particular are told that we're going to suffer. And so we need to really make it our our purpose and our intention to be prepared for it when it comes so that it doesn't catch us unawares. I think it's also important we talk about this all the time, but to really understand what the Bible has to say about suffering, I think it's key to have a good theology of suffering.

00;02;21;26 - 00;02;54;21
Chris
Everybody may have forgotten this at this point, but I did a whole series on suffering a year ago following up from Easter that's available on our regular podcast and also on our website. All of the sermons, people can go back and watch them, but there's a lot of good books out there that we can read and to help us with that, but just really studying the passages in the Bible that talk about suffering, studying books like Jobe First Peter talks about suffering a ton.

00;02;54;23 - 00;03;21;20
Chris
And so those are just two two books off the top of my mind there. But again, I would say having a good theology of suffering is is absolutely the key here, so that when we do face it where we're at, maybe I put it this way when we face suffering, we're not always in the best frame of mind or emotion as to actually think theologically about it and to wrestle with those questions in the moment.

00;03;21;20 - 00;04;01;12
Chris
And so I think it's important to do our homework a ahead of time so that when those difficulties and trials do come, we have a good foundation and perspective to be able to walk through that suffering with them. So, you know, just the passage on on Sunday where we rejoice in our suffering, Paul says. And so when suffering comes to say, okay, I'm going to seek to rejoice in this because I know that if I if I seek to do that and I have the right attitude, it can actually be a good thing for me instead of a bad thing for me.

00;04;01;14 - 00;04;28;10
Chris
And so I want to quote another pastor, Mark Rocha. He's a pastor in Indianapolis. He's written a book on suffering. And that's a really good one. And he talks about how suffering is hard, but it's not necessarily bad. It's hard. That doesn't mean it's bad. Suffering is hard, but it can be good. And that's really the note to the Bible strikes time and time again.

00;04;28;10 - 00;04;39;08
Chris
So I think really having the right attitude about it and the right attitude comes from believing what the Bible says, that God wants to produce good things in our lives.

00;04;39;10 - 00;04;56;24
Brenton
Yeah, Yeah, that's helpful. I think you're right that that's not that's not our natural response when we when we come to things that are hard, we and so we need to be ready before instead of trying to figure it out at the beginning of of whatever's going on.

00;04;56;26 - 00;05;37;14
Chris
Yeah. And I would just encourage everybody to not to think that I'm saying we should just look at suffering and just, you know, celebrate like, Oh, here I'm suffering. We we need to be ready to grieve it and to wrestle with the difficulty of that, to take that difficulty to God. The biblical term here is lament. And we have a tendency to really fail to recognize how much the Bible tells us and instructs us and models for us how to lament this whole book in the Bible.

00;05;37;14 - 00;05;59;04
Chris
Lamentations It's all about this. Many of the Psalms, in fact, a majority of the Psalms are Psalms of lament. And so when we do suffer in many ways, our first response should be to take our suffering to God and to complain to him about it. And that's what the word lament really means. It's a complaint, and it's not a complaint.

00;05;59;07 - 00;06;33;28
Chris
Just like to complain, but rather it's a complaint to God that we're in which we're asking him to to do something about it. We're saying this is unjust, this hurts, this is wrong, Why is this happening? But we're doing it in in an attitude of faith and trust in him, that he can actually that he cares about it and that he wants to do something about it, will do something about it and has done something about it.

00;06;34;06 - 00;07;01;27
Brenton
Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's clear you're not saying this, but but I, I don't want to kind of give the notion that we're that we're saying that you just need to grin and bear it and just rejoice, even though you really don't feel like rejoicing. I, you know, I, I read a book a long time ago. It was actually by C.S. Lewis and I it's been a long time, so I wouldn't necessarily suggest it now, but it's called a grief observed.

00;07;01;27 - 00;07;30;09
Brenton
And he it was it was pretty much just a journal that got published when his wife died. And you know, at the time I was just struck by the honesty in it. And in a lot of that honesty kind of manifested itself in anger towards God. And so that that stuff can be appropriate. We do have real feelings and we really do need to mourn.

00;07;30;12 - 00;07;40;05
Brenton
But and so I guess my point is that rejoicing doesn't mean that we're we're forcing ourselves to be happy through through trials. Right. Right.

00;07;40;08 - 00;08;14;16
Chris
Yeah. I want to be really clear. I'm saying the exact opposite of grin and bear it, Right? We yeah, You know, this is second verse things to not five but four. We're sorrowful yet always rejoicing and so it's it's both and and we can be really good at either or but actually we're called to to do both and so we should sorrow and I and yet we can rejoice and again we're not rejoicing in in the suffering.

00;08;14;17 - 00;08;15;20
Brenton
Right.

00;08;15;22 - 00;08;38;01
Chris
Like the suffering that say know honestly some people actually do they actually use this as kind of a badge of honor that hey, I'm going to be able to grin and bear and actually becomes a work a can at times. So that's not what we're we're looking for at all. We we want to grieve our pain and our loss and the pain, the loss of our world.

00;08;38;04 - 00;09;04;07
Chris
And yet we rejoice in in the fact that God intends to to use it for good in our lives. And we can also rejoice that no matter how hard or difficult the situation that we're going through, we know that. And maybe I will put it this way. Well, as Christians, we don't have all the answers for why we suffer, but we do have the final answer.

00;09;04;09 - 00;09;19;09
Chris
And through the incarnation, crucifixion and resurrection and the future coming of Jesus Christ, we have the final answer to suffering. And we can rejoice that there will be a day where this suffering, whatever it may be, will be no more.

00;09;19;11 - 00;09;52;25
Brenton
Yeah. Yeah. It reminds me of of first Epistle Ionians for where and he's he's talking about mourning those who were here. He says about those who are asleep who who have died and and that he says that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. And so we we do have hope that we are going to or we at least should mourn and grieve differently than people that don't have the hope of Christ.

00;09;52;27 - 00;09;54;22
Brenton
And so that's a right.

00;09;54;26 - 00;10;17;26
Chris
And I really appreciate you bringing that passage up, because my experience has been that that many in the church will use that as just a means to to not actually grieve like we don't grieve as those who have no hope and they take them in. We're not going to grieve at all. No, he says. We do grieve, but we grieve differently than those who have no hope.

00;10;17;26 - 00;10;45;22
Chris
We grieve with this comfort and expectation. And and so we're going to lament and we're going to cry. We're going to shed tears, and we're going to do that for and with others who are going through that. But we're not going to do it with despair and we're not going to do it by without thinking about what the future holds and without turning our eyes toward the Lord.

00;10;45;24 - 00;11;19;07
Brenton
Yeah, it's good. Switching gears a little bit, you said on Sunday we we never need to clean ourselves up before we come to God. And you brought up Hebrews 416 where it says, Let us then, with confidence, draw near to the throne of grace that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. So given our current state of grace with God, how can we teach ourselves to approach God's throne with confidence?

00;11;19;10 - 00;11;46;28
Chris
Yeah, I don't know that I have a great answer here. I think that this is something that we have to practice and I think it's something that we have to practice as we remind ourselves of the truth of the gospel and that I just find it just so, so hard to think in relation to God, in regards to grace instead of in regard to works.

00;11;46;28 - 00;12;12;12
Chris
I don't know what it is about the human condition, or maybe it's just my condition. Although my past experience shows me that it's a common experiences that we just have a tendency to think that God released us on the basis of of works and what we do. And I think we have to go back and meditate on passages like we talked about on Sunday.

00;12;12;12 - 00;12;38;14
Chris
And there's so many of them. We're going to see a number of them here throughout the rest of Romans that talk about God's grace and return us to that truth. But I think we I guess maybe what I say is in answer to this question, we've got to practice it. So we've got a practice going before the throne of the Lord and making our requests made known to him.

00;12;38;16 - 00;13;06;07
Chris
And then as we practice that and we have that experience of mercy and grace, it will fuel us to go back to it time and time again. I think of a child who when they go to their parent and when they the parent gives them what they ask for that actually spurs them on to ask for it more, to go back to their parents more and more.

00;13;06;10 - 00;13;27;21
Chris
And that's not a perfect analogy, but I do think it plays well here is that as we go back and we practice going before the throne, it will hopefully inspire us to do so more. And I know you got any thoughts on that?

00;13;27;24 - 00;13;54;00
Brenton
Well, I was not necessarily I was going to ask after that. What what do you think it looks like tend to approach God's throne, not confidently. I mean, what is the other side of that look like? Is that why is that a problem? Yeah, like it seems like we should go humbly and and meekly.

00;13;54;02 - 00;13;54;18
Chris
To.

00;13;54;19 - 00;14;18;20
Brenton
To his throne. And I think the context of this is talking about Jesus as the high priest, right? So we we don't approach confidently because of anything in us. We, we recognize that we now have a better priest in Jesus that that we can approach God, but, but yeah, I wonder what that what he's kind of talking against here.

00;14;18;22 - 00;14;41;00
Chris
Mm hmm. Yeah, probably a number of different ways we could come at it. I think that there is the not coming at all, which I think is what is the primary issue for, for so many. He was they just don't, they don't come at all. They don't feel like there were the they they feel like God is angry at them or he doesn't care or that they're.

00;14;41;07 - 00;15;13;14
Chris
Yeah. You know, they're the requests or not valid or whatever and they they just don't come at all. I think that many, many Christians really, really struggle to pray hardly at all other than at meals. And I think on the other side that coming confidently really means that we can come come to lead knowing that God is going to receive us and accept us.

00;15;13;16 - 00;15;42;00
Chris
And yet you mentioned humbly that that means that he may not give us exactly what we're we're looking for. He'll give us mercy and grace, but that doesn't necessarily mean the grace of like, you know, whatever we want, he's going to give it to us. I think the humble humbly is like knowing like he knows what's best and that God's going to going to give us what we need, not necessarily what we we want.

00;15;42;00 - 00;16;04;25
Chris
So coming confident, I think really in many ways is trusting that God is good and all knowing. And so his in his missions and his goodness, he's going to give us what we truly need. And just trusting that that is truly what we need, even if that's not exactly what we wanted when we came.

00;16;04;27 - 00;16;31;08
Brenton
Yeah, maybe thinking about what what we're being confident in. Whether we're confident and in his desires for us or our own desires for us. So. Yeah. Okay. I think it's common for people to think of God as peaceful towards everyone, like, no matter what. But but this passage makes it clear that that peace with God only comes through justification by faith.

00;16;31;10 - 00;16;51;15
Brenton
And so can we talk a little about what the opposite looks like? Romans eight seven says for the mind that is said on the flesh is hostile to God, for does not submit to God's law. Indeed it cannot. What would you say hostility with God looks like?

00;16;51;17 - 00;16;58;10
Chris
Well, I think the simple answer might actually come from that verse where it says for it does not submit to God's.

00;16;58;10 - 00;16;59;24
Brenton
Law.

00;16;59;26 - 00;17;21;06
Chris
Hostility with God is not submitting to what God wants. It is if friendship with God and peace with God looks like going toward him, hostility would look like going away from him. So I don't know. I've got too much more to say. Yeah.

00;17;21;07 - 00;17;30;28
Brenton
So would you say that it's a hostility from us to God or from God to us?

00;17;31;01 - 00;18;02;15
Chris
Well, I mean, again, the verses, it's the mind that is hostile to God. So we're hostile to him. But, you know, on the other side of that is that God is when we're not at peace with him. Well, you're not being justified by faith. God is his wrath is bearing down on us. He is angry with our sin.

00;18;02;18 - 00;18;25;23
Chris
And we may not want to get into this, but, you know, sometimes he will say that God is not angry with people. He's angry with their sin, and that that really is not the correct way to put it, because you can't separate a sinner from his sin. And so, yes, God is angry with us. And the great thing about justification of my faith is now we have peace with God.

00;18;25;23 - 00;18;57;18
Chris
So he's not angry at us anymore. Right. And so, yes, I think is this what you were trying to get at is like, what's guy's disposition to us before we're justified by faith? Yeah, right. And so, you know, hostile, I don't think is probably the word that I would I would use because hostile says like he's intentionally, you know, coming after us and and there's an intentionality in that God loves loves the world.

00;18;57;20 - 00;19;13;12
Chris
And so I don't think hostile would be the word that I would use to say that our disposition to God is the same as his this position to us before we're justified by faith. But it is true that he is wrathful against us in our sin.

00;19;13;14 - 00;19;22;04
Brenton
Yeah. Yeah, that's. That's good clarity. The what is the common saying there that God hates the hates the symbol of the sinner.

00;19;22;09 - 00;19;56;14
Chris
Yeah. Well, and I think that, you know, people have this idea at times and I'm at how about believers, Although maybe some believers do, but like, God's just this hostile, angry, condemning, judging God and is is got angry. Yes. Sin? Yes. Is he a judge? Yes. But. But what is his attitude and his desired, his desires that all would be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth.

00;19;56;16 - 00;20;27;19
Chris
And so his heart is a one of again of love. And he desires to show mercy. Of course, that does depend upon people's response to the to the gospel. And so I think it's really important. It's just another area. We've got to be very careful that we walk the line here and we don't kind of ascribe to God attitudes that he doesn't truly have.

00;20;27;19 - 00;20;34;08
Chris
And while at the same time ascribing to him the attitudes that he truly does have.

00;20;34;11 - 00;20;52;17
Brenton
Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of this comes back to the conversations we had when we were in Romans one and maybe three that was talking about kind of gods God's view of us or our view of God, at least pre Christ. So yeah, yeah.

00;20;52;25 - 00;21;43;01
Chris
And maybe it just a word about nuance here. The older I get, the longer and in ministry, the more important I believe nuance to be. And I think it's we really like to be black and white and on one side or the other. And I think faithful Gospel ministry requires us to recognize that in many of these conversations and we're going to have some big ones here in Romans like when we get to Romans nine and ten, where we're going to have to be careful to have the correct nuance that the Scripture has and recognize that there are times that the Bible, you know, uses things that are talks about things that seem to be

00;21;43;01 - 00;22;13;12
Chris
paradoxical to us, or they can be if we don't hold some of the things the scripture says in tension and let there be tension. We don't want there to be tension, especially theologically. And yet sometimes there there is tension. Yeah. And let's let the Bible say what the Bible says and not try to excuse or explain away some of those difficult things that are things that can be difficult for us to try to understand how they fit together.

00;22;13;15 - 00;22;15;21
Brenton
Really? Yeah, I agree.

00;22;15;24 - 00;22;24;20
Chris
We'll have some fun conversations and when we can't wait to do nine and ten.

00;22;24;23 - 00;22;54;20
Brenton
You talked about how our feelings should follow the facts and not the other way around. Being controlled by our feelings rather than us. Being in control can be a really hard cycle to break. Do you have any advice on kind of how to implement this idea of just keeping keeping our feelings in check and controlling them instead of letting them control us?

00;22;54;23 - 00;23;37;13
Chris
I do have a few things. One thing I would say is I think you really need to limit your exposure to the media and the culture of our day. And the reason I say that I'm not saying that we don't take in social media, we don't take in television, movies or anything like that, but I am saying that we need to be careful how much we imbibe of those things, because nowadays they're almost nonstop saying your feelings are king and your feelings and whatever you feel is true and real and you need to follow your feelings.

00;23;37;13 - 00;24;05;08
Chris
And so if we are continue fully immersed in in that world, then it's going to be really, really hard not to be led by our feelings when everything we're listening to is telling us be about your feelings and, you know, the the whole, you know, follow your follow your heart, which is really, really dangerous, Scripture tells us. And so there's that.

00;24;05;08 - 00;24;29;01
Chris
I think you also need to have wise people in your life that can hopefully be speaking the truth and to you and maybe maybe I can say this. This is a little bit of a sidebar here, but I think it is relevant. And I thought about talking about this on Sunday. I didn't have time. I just remembered it.

00;24;29;01 - 00;24;53;08
Chris
I think that maybe our older and our younger generations can be really helpful to us. Here are our older generations tend to be more fact based and our younger generations tend to be more feelings based. And that's largely because I think of the culture in the world that they grew up in. And and so and I'm putting myself in the older fact base, and I don't know where you would put yourself, but maybe in the minimal you're old.

00;24;53;10 - 00;25;22;02
Chris
Yeah, but I, I think our younger people can teach our older people that you know it's so you do have feelings. It's okay to have feelings and that feelings are important for us, hopefully, to recognize and to to own. And at the same time, I think maybe our older generation can help our younger generation to to recognize that that facts are really important, right?

00;25;22;08 - 00;25;48;12
Chris
Socially Bible facts, the truth that there is objective truth and that maybe instead of all the time, like head butting on these issues, that we can learn to appreciate some of the strengths of both and that the younger people can help the older people to. I don't I hate to say it, but I may be in touch with their feelings a little bit more.

00;25;48;18 - 00;26;19;15
Chris
Yeah. And because we are emotional beings and our, our, our, our feelings, if they are sanctified by the word, can actually be ways that we can experience and know God in a greater way. And then are our younger people, maybe our older people can help them just to see that if if we're simply led by our feelings, we're going to be led astray and we're going to be led into ditch after ditch after ditch.

00;26;19;15 - 00;26;45;19
Chris
And it is it is a dead end street to be led by your feelings. And so maybe the generations can help one another. And we can help each other to to grow and to marry our facts and feeling with with faith. So back to that. Some of my advice on how to implement that. Maybe we can work together in regard to that.

00;26;45;22 - 00;27;05;27
Chris
So I do think having a community around you, though, hopefully of some of your peers to where you're keeping one another accountable in regard to that. And I think that this is yet again, I feel like we hit this or maybe I hit it on almost every episode, but.

00;27;05;29 - 00;27;07;20
Brenton
As why we got to.

00;27;07;22 - 00;27;48;21
Chris
Know God's Word and my theology really, truly does matter, I hope that that's one thing that people got from from Sunday. I started off the sermon with that is that like these justification by faith has massive implication for every day that you live and it really, truly does matter. And why I, I love to preach God's word and why I try to do it so passionately because it it's not just you know, it's just not like facts or things that that don't really matter to the day to day of our lives.

00;27;48;21 - 00;27;59;11
Chris
They literally matter in everything. Everything we do, every environment we live, every relationship that we are in.

00;27;59;14 - 00;28;32;18
Brenton
Yeah, well, I certainly agree with you there. I think I think one practical way it's played out in my life is, I mean, studying things like, you know, Christology or or whatever. There's so many topics. But that stuff more than anything, I think gives me more confidence in what I believe. If I if I can really dig in and understand what what the Bible is teaching, I think that that gives me more confidence in the Bible.

00;28;32;20 - 00;28;58;13
Brenton
And so, yeah, I couldn't agree more that theology matters. I also yeah, I think it's a good point about just community and generations working together on that stuff. We certainly have our own Ben stored one way or the other and I think it's yeah, it's an error on both sides and it's kind of I think it's silly to it.

00;28;58;15 - 00;29;27;15
Brenton
It's kind of a male stereotype that we, that we don't have feelings or shouldn't shouldn't have feelings. You said we need to be more in touch with our feelings. I'm going to quote you on that. Um, but yeah, it's, I think just we shouldn't kid ourselves either way that us having no feelings is not a legitimate way to live, because we do have we have plenty of feelings.

00;29;27;18 - 00;29;33;11
Brenton
And so just keeping those under control, keeping those in check with the facts is.

00;29;33;14 - 00;30;15;03
Chris
Yeah, I mean, let's just talk about Jesus for a second. Sure. So Jesus was fully human, the perfect human. And if we are accurately reading the Gospels, Jesus showed a lot of emotions, anger, sadness, hurt, I think. And by that I don't mean physical hurt, but relational hurt. Sure, he was joyful. He got excited. What? I mean, like you saw passion from him and he was calm sometimes.

00;30;15;03 - 00;30;56;26
Chris
And and a lot of the time. But he had the whole gamut of emotions. And he was also a male. Hey, it's another podcast episode. But for us as humans and in particular you mentioned men to think like it's it's maybe feminine or an unmasked masculine or whatever not to have emotions is actually it's untrue and it's unhelpful both to us and to the people that we live around.

00;30;56;29 - 00;30;59;04
Brenton
Yeah, yeah.

00;30;59;06 - 00;31;06;02
Chris
It's good. Again, we talk about that a lot more, but right.

00;31;06;04 - 00;31;33;15
Brenton
Yeah. So you, you took some time on Sunday to more clearly define some common words. We use words like hope and peace that I think can become commonplace for us easily. And the piece one kind of stuck out to me in particular, you you had said that it's it's not necessarily just a feeling of it's not just tranquility.

00;31;33;15 - 00;32;00;22
Brenton
Right. Pieces is not just a feeling that we have. It's it's the end of the hostility that we had toward God. And so that's a yeah, so and maybe the other option is we approach scripture that talks about these topics with kind of preconceptions on what these words mean. And so I think one thing that struck me was just how careful we should be with the text of scripture.

00;32;00;24 - 00;32;16;22
Brenton
And so I guess my last question is, do you have any suggestions on materials our people can use to more accurately understand scripture as they read it, whether that's commentaries or study Bibles or whatever? What do you what do you think.

00;32;16;24 - 00;32;44;17
Chris
I have three that I'll give you. One would be a study Bible for sure. ESV Study Bible is my favorite. There are a lot of good study Bibles out there, so it doesn't have to be the ESV, but it it's it's just fantastic notes on there. I would encourage everybody to be careful about using a study bible though, because you can easily get into the situation where you're studying the notes more than you're studying the text.

00;32;44;20 - 00;33;12;19
Chris
And that's actually a little dangerous where we're reading what men say about the Bible. Then what the Bible actually says. So you've got to be careful there. It might actually be good to have one Bible that you're using to read. And so the other way and then the study Bible, you're using as a reference. And if you can afford it, I think most people could and commentaries are are good.

00;33;12;21 - 00;33;34;16
Chris
And if you want a good commentary for a book of the Bible, go to Charley's dot com s.H.I.E.L.D. Yes. Dot com and he's got a list of recommending commentaries for every book of the Bible. That's where I go. And we're getting ready to preach through a new book. And I look up one of the what's the consensus and what the best commentaries are.

00;33;34;16 - 00;34;04;23
Chris
And there's just different varieties. There's ones for scholars, there's ones for, you know, pastors. There's there's one that will be maybe for more for a lay audience. And so you can kind of look through there's those. And then the third would be it's maybe to get some software. I use logos and I can go to logos, WSJ.com logos, WSJ.com, and there's different versions that you can get.

00;34;04;25 - 00;34;31;18
Chris
I've obviously got a pretty robust one that most people are not going to want to drop that much on it or able to, but there are relatively cheap versions. There might even be a free version, I'm not sure. And there's other software that you can go to and and one of the things is great with logos is you can in the text, click on a word and it'll tell you what that Greek word means.

00;34;31;22 - 00;34;55;28
Chris
And you know, the English language is not as robust as Greek or Hebrew. And so sometimes, like with the word hope, we're saying, you know, the word hope, our English word hope is a pretty weak word, especially compared to what that biblical word means. And that's not it's not the only word where that is actually the case. And so this is a great question.

00;34;55;28 - 00;35;01;18
Chris
And there will be three suggestions. I don't know. Do you have any others? You you do quite a bit of I will say.

00;35;01;18 - 00;35;28;15
Brenton
You're so I think I think that that's a good list. I think there can be kind of a a conception in the church where we need to just be me, Jesus and my Bible and, and and that's where the spirit speaks. And I think to some extent that's healthy, that we we should rely on the spirit to to give us wisdom and insight as we read Scripture.

00;35;28;15 - 00;35;58;02
Brenton
But to ignore the just mountains of resources that are available. I mean, the there's things that we just we aren't experts in and aren't going to be. And so we we should kind of rely on experts in those fields while being careful that those are accurate things. And so, yeah, I think it can be daunting to try to find resources, resources that are helpful and are orthodox.

00;35;58;02 - 00;36;02;23
Brenton
And in point us in the right direction. And so, yeah, yeah, that's good. That's a good list.

00;36;02;23 - 00;36;44;05
Chris
I do think that maybe it bears mentioning that historically for the last 2000 years, this idea of having your own, you know, quiet time like it's, it's just you studying the Bible by yourself is a little bit foreign. And what I mean by that is, generally speaking, that people were studying the Bible together in a community. And that doesn't mean that like, again I'm all for doing your own personal Bible study.

00;36;44;05 - 00;37;12;20
Chris
But I would say that the community that we have the privilege of having is the community of other believers who've who've studied and who have written great commentaries, books, Bible studies, And and so I don't know that the New Testament envisions this world where individual Christians spend all the time just with their Bible open and nobody else speaking into that as their.

00;37;12;21 - 00;37;17;08
Brenton
I think it's unlikely that the first century church all had their own little pocket Bibles. They're walking around.

00;37;17;12 - 00;37;50;29
Chris
Well, it's only unlikely since they didn't because the New Testament wasn't even put together. The canon was not put together yet, and but I do think that we I mean, there's there's actually a danger in just going out and studying the Bible on our own without anybody else actually speaking into that or checking anything, because we can easily misinterpret what something says.

00;37;50;29 - 00;38;06;05
Chris
And there's a lot of heresy that that begins that way. And of course, there's obviously the other danger. You can you can read stuff that will lead you into heresy as well. We can tackle some of that. Yeah, and last time.

00;38;06;06 - 00;38;32;01
Brenton
But you also I think the other danger is, is you miss so much stuff. I mean, had we kind of just read through that just sitting down and reading through Romans one through five, I don't I don't think we would have probably come to the conclusions. And I even even things like the doctrine of the Trinity, I think you'd have a hard time getting there in a meaningful way by yourself with the Bible.

00;38;32;01 - 00;38;47;07
Brenton
Sure. But but that does certainly doesn't discount the doctrine. But yeah, to to ignore the common grace that God has given us in in people in history with all these resources is.

00;38;47;09 - 00;39;29;02
Chris
And let me just give a final encouragement to everybody. Sometimes people will say to me, you know, how in the world did you get all of that from from that? And the truth of the matter is, and I really do mean is I'm it's not that I'm smarter than than other people in fact through the matter is I'm not by a long shot and I, I just take the tools that are available to me which are pretty much available to everybody now not everybody has a you know, the ability to study 20 hours or so a week as I do.

00;39;29;04 - 00;39;57;18
Chris
But what I what I'm saying is, is like it it's not like I don't have a ton of more education than most people do. I don't have, you know, a greater intelligence than other people, do I? And the tools that are available to me are pretty much available to everybody. And so you can I just everybody listen, I just want to encourage you.

00;39;57;18 - 00;40;16;11
Chris
It's like the things and a lot of the insights that I will bring out and you can bring out, too. And I'm saying I have a special gift for preaching or anything. If I didn't, then I somebody else ought to be in the role that I'm in. But when I talk about preaching at how my studying the Bible.

00;40;16;15 - 00;40;35;13
Brenton
Yeah, right. Yeah, that's helpful. I hope that I hope that's helpful to you guys. And I will definitely link all of those things that Chris mentioned in the notes. So check those out. I think will wrap up there. I appreciate the time and we'll talk to you next week.