00;00;02;17 - 00;00;32;29
Brenton
This is further a weekly show for the people of Harmony Bible Church, where we seek to revisit and expand on Sunday sermons with the goal of growing deeper in biblical truth that transforms our lives. Welcome back to Further. I'm Brenton Grimm. And today we actually have two new guests. We have Andrew Weise and Nathan Williams. So these are two guys that they used to preach quite a bit but haven't as of late because they're in two different roles.

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Brenton
So Andrew, would you mind kind of introducing yourself and talk about your new role?

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Andrew
But yeah, thanks for having me on. Absolutely. Pastor Global Ministries now was Fort Madison campus pastor, and as he said, I preached a little more often in that role. I'm glad I still get to bring God's word to his people. And but yeah, different different focus now with, you know, caring for shepherding our field staff and also raising up new people to go and be light to the nation.

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Andrew
So I'm really excited to be in that role. And I'm learning and it's it's been a great process so far. It's great.

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Brenton
Cool. Thanks, Nathan. Yeah. You were a campus pastor in Burlington as it got started and then kind of moved into community ministries. So can you talk a little bit about that transition and introduce yourself?

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Nathan
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It was a kind of a natural fit for me because my heart is for people and not administration and so being a campus pastor is a lot of administration. And my heart was just going after the community and seeing people in the community and being able to share the gospel with them and so as pastor of Community Ministries, we do a lot of things like benevolence, you know, where we see people coming in and we try to help them out and we get to interact with them one and one and celebrate recovery again, a program where we interact with the community and bring them in.

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Nathan
I do a lot of counseling again, it's people I'd say about 50% of the people I actually counsel with aren't even members of Harmony Bible Church. But it's our opportunity to be able to share the gospel with them and see them come to know the Lord. So it's just a great fit for me just to be able to be part of the community and let God's goodness show through harmony by the church in our community and bring us together in that right now.

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Brenton
It's good. It's good just to see you guys as used to be, campus pastors. But now, as harmony is growing more and more, we see more of a need to kind of branch out into into different ministries. And we have a deep bench behind you that's coming in to fill fill in. So, yeah, just good to see what's going on.

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Brenton
So you guys both preach this last week on Romans seven one through 12. And yeah, we're getting into some kind of heavy stuff here, just hard to kind of pass through and yeah, so questions today will be interesting. We'll see how this conversation goes. I'm excited about it. Um, so the first place I want to start is kind of just broadly what, what law is Paul referring to here?

00;03;18;20 - 00;03;26;25
Brenton
Is it specifically the Mosaic law or is it more broadly just all of God's laws?

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Andrew
Yeah, I think that's a great question, Brenton, And uh, I think I, I think it's both. Um, he talks about the Mosaic Law for sure because he's talking about coveting. That's clearly from the Mosaic Law in verse one, he says, I'm speaking to those who know the law. And, you know, he's been talking to Jews and Gentiles. And the expectation would be that the Jews would be familiar with the law.

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Andrew
The Gentiles probably wouldn't, at least how he's been using it so far in the book. But I think you can get a little in the weeds with the mosaic law, because there's a lot entails that's entailed or involved in the Mosaic law. And and so when I say both and I think he's talking about the Mosaic Law is specifically honing in on the moral aspects of the Mosaic Law.

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Andrew
And yeah, and again, you know, he's talking about the written code. He's talking about not coveting and he's talking about how the law is holy. So it's clearly a law that is close to God's heart. It's a law that that comes from God, not just man's laws, not just human laws, but it's focused on the moral aspects of the Mosaic Law.

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Andrew
Mm hmm.

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Nathan
Yeah, well, actually, the Mosaic Law is, shall we say, three different categories. Is there is the moral law, the ceremonial law, and the civil law. And, Andrew, you pointed out rightly that the moral law is the most important one of those, because it's like the Ten Commandments. Don't don't steal, don't commit adultery, don't covet all those things that they're the moral laws, I think are timeless.

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Nathan
And the ceremonial laws, of course, were carried out or fulfilled with Jesus. You know, how to do the sacrifices, how the priest should dress all symbol, symbolizing things that Jesus would fulfill. But the civil law, again, you know, Brenton, you said, is it a more broad thing than just the Mosaic law or as you referred to as the moral law?

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Nathan
Andrew I think it is, because once again, it shows our heart. It shows our heart of rebellion. And in fact, later on in Roman Chapter 13, Paul is going to address this very thing and he says, You got to obey those who who are in authority over you. And verse two, he says, Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God himself instituted and will bring judgment upon themselves.

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Nathan
So once again, when the speed limit says 55, well, you know what? I can go 64 without getting in trouble because I can break it. And that just shows our heart to want to break whatever law is put out there, because it shows our sinful nature, really, the law or rules or whatever it is, whether it's the moral law, the civil law that's instituted by our civil government.

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Nathan
Our heart wants to break it because it shows a simple heart.

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Andrew
Yeah.

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Brenton
Yeah. So even though Paul was with his specific example, brings up not to Covet, which is one of the Ten Commandments. Right. You you think he's speaking more broadly about all of his all of God's law.

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Nathan
I do. I do. A come apart from maybe the ceremony in law, but the rest of it for sure. Okay.

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Brenton
Good. Verse eight says, But sin seizing an opportunity through the commandment produced in me all kinds of covetousness for apart from the law. Sin lies dead. So Paul says that the law produced all kinds of covetousness in him. Is he saying that he actually send more once he knew the law or that he could actually recognize that his actions were were sinful and he realized how sinful he actually was?

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Nathan
Yes. Okay. Yes.

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Brenton
Elaborate.

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Nathan
Let me go on to explain that, Adam. Well, first of all, it was the law or this the commandment, shall we say, do not covet that made him recognize his sinful nature. But it's it's it's it's like once we recognize when somebody tells against their sinful heart and we focusing on it, once we recognize it, and I use the example of wet paint, don't touch.

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Nathan
And we see something. Andrew I think you used the example of don't walk on the grass. The more you see that sign, the more you want to say, If I see a sign that says wet paint don't touch the most, the first thing I want to do is, is go over and, oh, put my finger out.

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Andrew
Check if it's dried.

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Nathan
Yeah, Is it really wet? And so Paul is using that example to say, you, you know, I wasn't even coveting everything until you told me God to tell you. It said, Don't covet it. Now it's like, oh, I shouldn't want that, that, that Andrew or Bratton has. But, you know, now that I know I shouldn't have it, you know, I'm kind of looking at it all the morning and now I want it more now uncovered or me.

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Nathan
But but really, Is that all bad? No, but it does make us think about and I think what Paul is really getting at here is the more we think about don't breaking the law, the more we actually think about it, and the more we actually think about it, the more it creates in honor in us. A desire to want to do that, which once again is showing our sinful nature of rebellion.

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Andrew
Yeah, I think it's a little bit of a tricky question because use the word more by sinning more. I don't know that we're necessarily when we're aware of the law producing more quantity of sin, but I do I agree with Nathan in the sense that once we're aware of a law or rules specific ones, it does increase this internal struggle and this internal awareness.

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Andrew
We're certainly more conscious of our sin at that point. And and I would even say in the as the example of the wet paint or not walking on the grass or whatever it may be, we are tempted to send more because we're confronted with were confronted with it and then as he talks about sin comes alive and sin is saying, Hey, go for it, you can do this.

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Andrew
Whereas before sin doesn't care. Once if we're sinning and you know we're in violation of the law, whether or not we're aware of the law. But and since sin doesn't really care about sin is in this sense sinister and that it wants us to produce more sin. And so if we're aware of the law, it now has an opportunity to increase the trespass, increase our consciousness of it, and create more of that internal struggle in us and really ultimately condemn us and bring about death.

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Brenton
AS Yeah, yeah, I think that it's been good to kind of do a deeper dive into Romans seven here because we kind of all know the the idea of the lobbying, a mirror, right? So the law kind of shows us where our sin is. And I think that's kind of where I went with this question that, you know, before someone is is regenerate the bad choices they make have natural consequences.

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Brenton
Right. So those are the things that that they see practically coming out. But what happens when you are actually faced with the law is you realize that it's not just natural consequences that are happening. You're actually sinning against against a holy God like your trespasses and against whatever whatever thing you did on the earth, you trespass against God.

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Brenton
And so I guess that's how I've kind of read that is that Paul is coming to the conclusion that it isn't just just it's not just the law in itself or we're seeing against God, right? And so, yeah, that's that's an interesting conversation, though.

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Andrew
Yeah. And that's why, you know, this passage has to have God's law in view. You can't just come at this from the civil standpoint. Paul is talking about offending a holy God here and and there's a reality. And in a and when you're conscious of that, that sickening feeling and recognizing that offense that that you have against holiness.

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Andrew
Mm hmm.

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Brenton
Nathan, like to ask you on specifically something you said on on Sunday, kind of caught my ear. And you you said and as such, we either have Satan as our master or God as our master and passages like Chapter six 417 referred to sin as our master. And that's kind of what we've seen through Romans, is we're slaves to sin, but we haven't seen the verbiage or in any way, I think, seen that we're slaves to Satan.

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Brenton
Would you draw a distinction between sin and Satan in this context or what? What did you mean by that?

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Nathan
Well, really, what we do indicates who we belong to. And and probably the best way to explain that is the way Jesus explained it in John chapter seven. And he uses the same verbiage it's been used in Romans in in verse 30, I take off my glasses. We can actually see here better in verse 35, he says, Everyone in who sins as it is a slave to sin.

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Nathan
Exactly what we've been talking about here, right? Everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now he talks about, well, we don't have to remain a slave of sin. He says Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. Belongs to the family of Christ. So when we when we trust Christ, we're no longer a slave to sin.

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Nathan
We're. We're in the family of God. So if the sun set you free, you will be free. Indeed. Right. So now he goes on and he starts talking about some people are saying, Yeah, well, hey, we're children of Abraham. And so far as such, you know what I mean? And he goes, Jesus goes on, says, No, hold on a second.

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Nathan
He goes on in verse 44, He says, No, you belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar. And the father of lies.

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Nathan
So what Jesus is really saying is if you're sinful, behave, have ears, are breaking the law of constantly being a murderer, a liar, a thief, whatever that is. He says, Yeah, you're a slave to sin, but you belong to put it in Jesus exact word for for you belong to your father, the devil, and so. So our master is our actions indicate that we're slave to sin, but we belong to either Satan or God.

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Brenton
Hmm.

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Andrew
I just love how, you know, this is completely aside from Romans seven specifically. But a lot of the criticism Paul gets or the New Testament gets is that while Jesus taught this, Paul taught that, James taught that. And and, you know, Paul's theology is different or something like that. And it's passages like that and passages like Romans seven where it's like, no, Jesus taught it.

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Andrew
Paul retort it. They agree there's some there's some differences as an application or, you know, in examples that they give, but they're not in disagreement and they're teaching the same things, the things that the things that we see in the letters throughout the New Testament are the same things that we see in the Gospels that Jesus was teaching his disciples.

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Andrew
Mm hmm.

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Brenton
Yeah, It's a it's a different way to frame the conversation that we're having in Romans. And it's a yeah, it's an interesting point. Appreciate that. This is a question that I think I've kind of been thinking through, and I don't even know where we go with it, but we'll see. We'll see what kind of conversation it makes at different points in both your sermons and in in Romans The way Paul talks, we kind of personify sin.

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Brenton
Right. So you say something like, Cindy, this or sin wanted you to do this or sin rises up in us. Can can we flesh that out a little bit? So whose will is taking place there?

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Andrew
Sure. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's great. I didn't even think about it initially that. That we personified sin and in our sermons, But. But as you point out, Paul did in the passage, it's probably why I did it in my sermon. You know, he says, sin comes alive. Sin seizes an opportunity twice. He says sin seizes an opportunity. Sins, active sins, doing something as Paul is describing it.

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Andrew
But as you read through, most of the rest of scripture, sin is just this kind of this out there concept. You know, you've you've sinned against God, You've you've missed the mark. You've not measured up, you've fallen short. It's something you do. Whereas here it's it's active. It's got of in a way, like a mind of its own or a personality of its own.

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Andrew
And if you go back to Genesis four seven, you actually see one of the first uses of sin is when Cain's sacrifice is not the one that God accepts. He accepts Abel's sacrifice and not Cain's. And of course, God knows that Cain is upset by this. And and God, warns Cain. He says In Genesis four seven, sin is crouching at the door.

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Andrew
It's desires, contrary to you, but you must rule over it. And so even from the beginning, we see that that sins ready to pounce in this personified way. And and Cain is is warned that it wants him. It's out for him. It's after him and so but again most of the rest of the places in scripture it's kind of this this not neutral necessarily but this kind of thing you do or don't do.

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Andrew
You're a sinner or you're not a sinner. You have sinned. You could sin. You've sinned in the past. But here there's a real there's a real personal nature to sin.

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Brenton
Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, as we if we were to lay out our kind of Hamadi ology or our theology of sin, we wouldn't give it personhood. But it's interesting how our vernacular kind of kind of works its way out. And I wonder if it kind of speaks to almost the powerlessness of of us to to not sin in those circumstances, like what you brought up there with Cain and Abel.

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Brenton
I mean, that. Yeah, we're talking Old Testament not not regenerate. Right. So. So still a slave to sin in that way?

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Brenton
Yeah. I don't know, I, I started noticing it and it's interesting that you didn't even, like, really give that any thought. We just. This is how we talk about it, right?

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Andrew
And at the same time, you know, Paul. Paul does it here. He, he did. But I don't think.

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Nathan
Paul.

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Andrew
In like you said, I don't think any of us think that sin is actually a person in and of itself. I think it is powerful metaphorical language that Paul's using to emphasize the power of or the significance of our powerlessness to not live up to God's holiness. And and it does take on this personhood that we are powerless against.

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Andrew
And to get to kind of the main question you ask there, whose will is taking place there, I think it's our lack of will that is taking place there. We are not we we aren't able to be holy. We aren't able to live up to God's standards and and I think it's I think this language personifying it in this way allows us to to recognize just how serious sin is in, in and of ourselves.

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Andrew
We can't do it, but with the help of the spirit, we can. Mm hmm. And we need to take sin seriously. I think that's kind of the main point Paul has here in personifying sin for us is that it's a serious thing. And, you know, like the devil prowling around like a roaring lion. That language wakes us up and makes us go, Oh, wow.

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Andrew
Like, there's there's real danger there. And I think that's what that that's what this personification should do for us.

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Brenton
Right. Nathan, you've been shuffling papers over there. What you got for us?

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Nathan
You know, I'm just trying to think here, you know, what is the main thing that that I got out of this and this passage? And I think it's all how we think about it. Like when you think before we trusted Christ, we were slaves to the law. Literally Slaves to the law. I have to keep the law. Absolutely perfectly to have eternal life.

00;21;47;01 - 00;22;08;10
Nathan
I mean, if I kept the law perfectly, I would have eternal life. I'd be sinless. But the point is, we all know that that's impossible. None of us can all of sin fall short of the goal. I mean, so we fail, period. So when we trust Christ, why do we still act like we still got to keep the law perfectly?

00;22;08;10 - 00;22;29;08
Nathan
And I think Paul's focus in it is why do you keep thinking about the law and keeping it perfectly? Because the more you think about don't don't commit adultery, don't don't lust, let's use lust as an example. Don't lust. The more I say I'm not going to last, I can't think about lustful thoughts. You know what I mean?

00;22;29;08 - 00;22;49;10
Nathan
Now I'm thinking about Los Lobos because I'm telling myself not to think about lustful thoughts. You see what I'm saying here? So he's saying, stop focusing on that. You know, stop focusing on it. And and, you know, in Romans chapter eight and I know I'm jumping ahead, those who live according to sinful nature have their minds set on what the nature desires.

00;22;49;13 - 00;23;17;08
Nathan
It's all about what we think about. And he's really saying, stop thinking about what you can't do and think about what God has done. He's the one who set you free. And you know, Romans 12 to, you know, a have your minds transformed? Stop thinking, you know, And if we transform our minds, our bodies are going to be transformed, formed, and when we do that, we start.

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Nathan
And I know I'm jumping outside the text here. All right, good. But but when we start thinking about what Jesus has done for for us, what's true, what's lovely, what's beautiful, what's of good repute, You know what I mean? I start my, my, my sinful nature. I'm not thinking about having to keep the law. I'm set free from that.

00;23;39;17 - 00;24;03;05
Nathan
I just naturally want to do what's good and lovely and beautiful. And there's the future of the spirit. You know, it talks about in Galatians, you know, I'm going to have now love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, self against such things. There is no law, right? So we're talking about the law here. And you know what? I'm going to bear fruit for Christ because I've changed my way of thinking.

00;24;03;08 - 00;24;20;23
Nathan
I think Paul is saying here, stop thinking about the law. It doesn't own you anymore. Start thinking about what Jesus has done for you. And by nature you're then, well, by nature, we're all saying, But. But you won't be so inclined to then think about what you shouldn't do. And as a consequence, as the more you think about it.

00;24;21;00 - 00;24;29;23
Nathan
What? Paint. Don't touch. I'm going to touch it right. So that's that was the main thing I got out of. This is like, change the way you're thinking.

00;24;29;25 - 00;24;55;06
Andrew
Yeah, I think, you know, to summarize what you're saying, it's like, let's live under grace, not under the law, right? You know, the law. The law was is that the law isn't allowed to show us grace. The law is is objective. And and it's that mirror that you were describing earlier, Brenton And it's not meant to show us grace.

00;24;55;06 - 00;25;24;00
Andrew
It's meant to show us who Goddess and his standard and what holiness is. And it can't show us grace. And when we try to live up to the law, we can't. We fail and it burdens us and it bogs us down. But when we're free from the law and we realize we're free from the law and we realize that we live under grace, we can we can keep the law recognizing and acknowledging that when we don't keep the law, there is grace, there is forgiveness.

00;25;24;00 - 00;25;58;28
Andrew
We have a loving father who cares for us and isn't condemning us and isn't holding us to that standard that he knows We can't keep that by his grace he kept for us. And so there is a huge and significant difference between living in a law mindset and living in a grace mindset. And I know Chris has mentioned this book before, I think even on this podcast, and that's the discipline of grace by Jerry Bridges.

00;25;58;28 - 00;26;23;08
Andrew
And it's just a remarkable book. I grew up, I actually didn't grow up in a super ultra conservative Christian tradition or anything like that, but I still did grow up in this law mindset rather than this grace mindset, and I can't tell you all of why that is. But but that's what I that's what I grew up with.

00;26;23;08 - 00;26;53;14
Andrew
And I was always, always living in fear of of messing up and breaking the law and and not not looking like this good little Christian boy. And I remember when I first read that book, but it just opened my eyes this this idea that I live under grace now and I want to keep the law to please my Heavenly Father, but I don't have to keep the law to please my heavenly Father because he loves me regardless.

00;26;53;19 - 00;27;13;22
Andrew
And and it just it's amazing how just getting that can change how you live day to day in and wanting to do what God desires and wanting to do what pleases him and honors him and glorifies him.

00;27;13;25 - 00;27;38;08
Nathan
Yeah, I think that whole idea of of not living under grace, what happens when we don't live under grace and we don't have that attitude of grace as is, we're tempted to go back to I got to keep. And every time we stand, we break the law. Roman Chapter 13, verse three. ROMANS Chapter eight, verse 15. It talks about when we're say it, it's it brings fear.

00;27;38;10 - 00;27;57;03
Nathan
Fear. So when I live under fear, I'm not producing good fruit because all I'm doing is I'm living in fear. Oh, no, I said, I've got to get saved again. It's amazing how many people who say they've placed their faith in Jesus, they think they've got to get saved. No, we belong to Christ. Let's live like we belong to nothing.

00;27;57;06 - 00;28;16;28
Nathan
Yes. Do we? Absolutely. Should we confess or first, John, when I. If you confess your sins, he is faithful and just forgive us our sins and cleanses. Do we need to come back and keep doing that? Absolutely. But don't live under fear because the living to the law like it still owns us. Like we're still only brings us fear.

00;28;17;00 - 00;28;24;07
Nathan
Yeah. And he set us free from that fear. And that's that grace you talking about. I'm really glad you brought that in.

00;28;24;09 - 00;28;49;03
Brenton
Yeah, that's really good. We I think a few episodes ago, Chris had kind of talked about, you know, the positive aspect of, of, of our sanctification rather than looking at me and I can't do this, I can't or I have to do this. It's it's more of we've been we've been set free to do this. And so looking at the positive aspect of it is so much more encouraging.

00;28;49;03 - 00;29;06;07
Brenton
And I think we see that in all of life that the negative it might, it might be good for a while, but it's exhausting. And so, yeah, really, really digging in and making our focus things of God, you know, so.

00;29;06;12 - 00;29;08;10
Andrew
Not have to it's a get to Yeah.

00;29;08;12 - 00;29;10;08
Brenton
Yeah it's true.

00;29;10;11 - 00;29;13;28
Andrew
It's a majorly different place to come from. Yeah. Yeah.

00;29;14;00 - 00;29;38;10
Brenton
And some of this I think irrelevant to this conversation, not that we haven't covered it on the podcast is legalism. I mean that's, that's where a lot of this, this half to comes from that we are not, not only are we keeping the law like we we should be, but we're keeping it for our justification. And that's, that's where the the problem comes.

00;29;38;12 - 00;29;50;16
Brenton
And you're right that that produces fear That's that you can have no assurance in in your salvation if your trusting your, your good works.

00;29;50;18 - 00;30;12;23
Andrew
Yeah. That and my wife is just constantly reminding me to show our kids grace and and not not just enforce the rules and not and they need they need to understand and they need to grow and they need to mature. And there are good aspects about having rules and things like that. But my wife is, is always just like, but let's make sure we show them grace.

00;30;12;23 - 00;30;40;22
Andrew
Let's make sure we show them grace. And so so there is this this tension between holding, holding them accountable to rules and expectations to help them mature. And then there's also helping them understand grace so that they can understand God's grace and and interact with that in a healthy way. And so she's been a good reminder for me often to show my kids grace on a regular basis.

00;30;40;24 - 00;31;19;24
Brenton
Yeah, maybe I'll throw this in here real quick and just kind of give me your short answer of it. But our position now, our our New Covenant Christian position, what should our first thoughts be when we think of the law like right now or post Christ, we're not under the law anymore. I think that it a lot of people probably look at it as burdensome, look at it as as, you know, just have negative connotations to it.

00;31;19;24 - 00;31;35;04
Brenton
I know Andrew, you brought up in your sermon Psalm 119, and there is another chapter of of Psalm that you brought up, but I guess talk about that a little bit. What's what should our opinion be of the law? What should we think of?

00;31;35;04 - 00;32;05;12
Andrew
And so to clarify, you're talking about God's law. Yeah, not just civil law, correct. That we live under here in America. So, yeah, I, I think I think we should celebrate God's law, just like Scripture does. I think we should have a really, really, really high opinion of it. I think that we should, you know, like Psalm 119, like every verse in that entire book, all 176 verses just praise God's law.

00;32;05;16 - 00;32;37;20
Andrew
And so I think I think we should match Scripture in that and and we should rejoice in it. And I think I think that's probably part of the reason, you know, side aside from not understanding grace and understanding our freedom in Christ and things like that. But I think I think we still don't view God as wholly as he is and understand him and praise him as highly as we should.

00;32;37;22 - 00;33;24;11
Andrew
Yeah. And along with that, his law. And so if we're not praising God as highly as we should, we're not praising the standard of living, we should have as highly as we should. And and it's different than when we were outside of Christ in terms of how how it plays out. But I think if if we can pursue God's law with the passion and joy that we see in Scripture, that the way God describes it, then I think we will we won't have issue thanks to the Spirit in us, you know, living it out better.

00;33;24;14 - 00;33;56;03
Andrew
But when we have a low view of it and we don't celebrate it and we don't think highly of it and all we do is think, Oh, I'm free of it, then we're probably with that attitude, we're more likely to to live in this, you know, licentious way of living and and end up, you know, living out the consequences of the natural consequences of sin, because we're not taking God's law as as seriously as it is because it's not.

00;33;56;05 - 00;34;22;14
Andrew
It's about it's about God's holiness and about and about sanctification and becoming holy. But God's law is also in a place because it's for our good. You know, there's there's commandments with explanations here. Here's here's why you do this. It's because it's good for you. It's it's not just a arbitrary law that God has in place, and you know it.

00;34;22;15 - 00;34;55;17
Andrew
Even if I may serve it. Like, why did why did Paul choose coveting? Right. Well, coveting is a sin that's deeper under the surface. And it's, you know, talk about libertarianism. It doesn't hurt anyone else to covet, but it does deep, deep damage to you and your heart. And that's why God says you can't covet. That's why the law says you can't covet is because it's it's severely damaging to you to live a coveted just life.

00;34;55;19 - 00;35;22;00
Nathan
Yeah, I might just go a slight different direction on that, you know. You know, So a lot of people would say, yes, if I know I'm free from the law now, I'm going to go down a whole different sinful path because I'm free from it. But I would contend that actually the opposite is actually true. If I really take it for what it's worth and really take it and say, you know what, I understand my freedom in Christ is now to pursue him.

00;35;22;04 - 00;35;46;03
Nathan
I'm focused on him and rather than focus on what I shouldn't do, I'm actually focused on him, which makes me live a sin, a more sinless life rather than a more sinful life. Because my focus has changed from my my ability or on my having to keep the law to now I get to serve Christ. Now that doesn't mean we should take sin any less seriously.

00;35;46;03 - 00;36;05;05
Nathan
In fact, we probably take it more seriously. But we're not just focusing on on trying not to do it, because as the more I, I focus on serving Christ more I don't even have to worry about doing because by nature I'm not doing it as much anymore. Now we get the person who who's just a sinful person every day and they really don't care.

00;36;05;05 - 00;36;28;13
Nathan
There's no conscience. All right. So the person who doesn't have a conscience and like you better watch it. Are you really a believer? Because if you if you say, hey, you know what, I'm freed from the law and you're just going to do it, I'd say that's a good indication you're not even a believer to start with, you know, First Corinthians Chapter six verses nine through ten says, And do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom?

00;36;28;15 - 00;36;46;06
Nathan
And it says, Do not be deceived. And then it goes on to to list a whole bunch of sins that I think we've all been guilty of. Some of them, in fact, verse 11 says and such were passed, hence some of you. So a person who is living in a sinful behavior so that I'm free from the law, You know what?

00;36;46;06 - 00;37;12;11
Nathan
You better check yourself to see if you really trust your grace. Maybe because here's the deal. If you did use that, you could read verse 12 and say, and that's what some of your boy be or washed. You are sanctified. You are justified in the name of Jesus Christ by the spirit of our God. Here's the deal. When we really understand what Jesus has done for us, it's like, I don't want to sin anymore.

00;37;12;13 - 00;37;28;11
Nathan
And when I do sin because I'm going to, it's going to grieve me and I'm going to repent of it. I'm not going to say, Hey, I'm free to do this. You know, that that freedom that that in our mind says that we got freedom to do that. No, no, no, no. So that's the seriousness of that sin.

00;37;28;11 - 00;37;45;04
Nathan
And once again, it comes back to the way we think. But I, I think in my case, what he's done for me, I'm now washed and cleaned. I'm justified in the name of Jesus Christ. And because of that, guess what? I get served here. I'm focused on and, you know, I'm free to do all this. And yeah.

00;37;45;06 - 00;37;56;25
Brenton
It's good stuff. Well, I really appreciate it, guys. That was it was a lot of different things. A lot of good conversation. I appreciate you both being on the air. Yeah. We'll talk to you guys next week.

00;37;57;00 - 00;37;58;14
Andrew
Yeah. Thanks for having us. Thanks.